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Author Topic: The God debate.  (Read 6610 times)

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Gatsby

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The God debate.
« on: September 23, 2008, 10:17:25 PM »

I know this can be a touchy subject, but I'd like to try and have a mature debate about religion vs. atheism.

I'll start off with my standpoint. I personally don't believe in a god or gods. Taking the Christian god (since it is usually the main god referred to in debates), I find that the theology of Christianity has some major holes or areas that science has disproved. One example that I find to be one of these holes is that the bible states the Earth is much younger than it actually is. I do understand that not many believe this to be true, but some fundamentalists do.

PS: Sorry if I, or anyone else generalizes.
Edit: Changed poor wording about "religion vs. science"
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 05:40:51 PM by Darth_Diclonius »
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sysadmin

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Re: The God debate.
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2008, 10:33:20 PM »

One example is the Earth being considerably older than stated in the Bible.

I'll speak up on this point only. 

Not every Christian believes in a young earth.   I am quite religious, and I believe in a 13.7 billion year old Big Bang, and all that derives from there.

I will warn that many Christians are moderate and have quite realistic views of science.  We're not all like the extremists that get the press on TV.
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Kazuko

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Re: The God debate.
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2008, 10:39:47 PM »

I agree, I am a christian as well but I am pro-choice, Pro gay marriage, I believe in evolution and the big bang theory. Not all of us are conservative bible pushing gay bashers like the ones on the press.

The Bible has been re-edited over many years and sections have not been put into the bible such as the ones from the dead sea scrolls and what not. I believe in god because of the whole things happen for a reason, Right now my family has been through so much but yet the lord has given us a tiny ray of hope regarding my fathers state of health

Can Science prove what is going on with my father and his lungs? He has been healthy and then all of sudden he has a mysterious disease in his lungs, its not lung cancer or fibrosis

Science is not the answer to everything, there are things that constantly change and things that are not discovered or theories that cant be proven
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Gatsby

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Re: The God debate.
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2008, 10:40:55 PM »

Oh no I didn't mean to generalize about that, I was referring to that in the Bible. I have quite a few Christian friends who believe in an older earth. I suppose I should rephrase it to make it exactly clear what I mean.
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Mizuki

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Re: The God debate.
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2008, 10:41:13 PM »

I don't believe in God or gods or any religion, but "the" God is the same god in all religions that have a "God."

I honestly think that religion is silly, but it can help people in certain ways, such as morale booster and the like, I'm more of a guy that wants to see the person they're putting so much faith and hope into.

p.s. This topic NEVER ends well, I hope someone with high power is watching over this thread.
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Gatsby

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Re: The God debate.
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2008, 10:45:24 PM »

I agree, I am a christian as well but I am pro-choice, Pro gay marriage, I believe in evolution and the big bang theory. Not all of us are conservative bible pushing gay bashers like the ones on the press.

The Bible has been re-edited over many years and sections have not been put into the bible such as the ones from the dead sea scrolls and what not. I believe in god because of the whole things happen for a reason, Right now my family has been through so much but yet the lord has given us a tiny ray of hope regarding my fathers state of health

Can Science prove what is going on with my father and his lungs? He has been healthy and then all of sudden he has a mysterious disease in his lungs, its not lung cancer or fibrosis

Science is not the answer to everything, there are things that constantly change and things that are not discovered or theories that cant be proven

I do agree with you that science doesn't have the answer to everything and there are mysterious anomalies in the universe. I do think there are ghosts and other paranormal creatures.
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sysadmin

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Re: The God debate.
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2008, 10:47:56 PM »

I suppose I should rephrase it to make it exactly clear what I mean.

Right, but....

religion vs. science.

This is a common characterization.  Unfortunately,this implies that there's some form of dichotomy, or (in some views) that the two are distinct.

At the core, fundamentally, there is some form of truth.  2+2=4.  The human body has 46 chromosomes.  &c.  I believe that all truth comes ultimately comes from God; the universe He made, the fundamental physics that were created.

Therefore, all attempts to learn more about truth should be encouraged, and I'm generally happy with true science in the rare event that it occurs.

p.s. This topic NEVER ends well, I hope someone with high power is watching over this thread.

I'll let this go until it inevitably derails.

To all, please be on your best behavior.
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XpHoBiaX

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Re: The God debate.
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2008, 01:20:23 AM »

In my views, God is the energy that flows through this world. He/she is not one, but many and tied to us all. It is also my belief that we are just vessles passing through this stage of life, and after death we will be ressurected in our true forms. Beings without pain or limitations.

I guess I am more of a spiritualist. I do not agree with organized religion. I firmly believe in God, but not as a single entity. Also, if you believe in one thing, there must be an equal and opposite force. I am very open minded to other beliefs, and combine bits and pieces of everything into my one belief.  Many beliefs are indeed similar. At one time, they were all the same.

I believe that man has destroyed the Word of God. Humans can not be trusted in passing on the Word. A spiritually connected "Christian" can and will sense when something is not quite right. I use the term loosely. I call this sense of knowing, your 3rd eye. (spiritualist, remember?) I am more connected in spirit now, then I had ever been when I practiced Religion.

I have nothing against science, it's not wrong to believe firmly in proven theories and facts. We as human beings need to grow, need to question, and it's perfectly alright.
I believe science had to happen when God decided there should be a universe.

Ultimately, to me, science and my personal belief, are one and the same. One couldn't happen without the other.

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Steve.Young

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Re: The God debate.
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2008, 08:24:01 AM »

I'm not religious by any stretch of the imagination...but

The idea of a flat Earth is that the surface of the Earth is flat, rather than the view that it is a very close approximation of the surface of a sphere. This was a common belief until the Classical Greeks began to discuss the Earth's shape about the 4th century BC. Early Christians had a problem with this as well, eventually leading into some debate concerning the possibility of the inhabitants of the antipodes: people imagined as separated by an impassable torrid clime were difficult to reconcile with the Christian view of a unified human race descended from one couple and redeemed by a single Christ.

Beliefs change over time. What we know and what we think we know changes as well. As we gain knowledge in how our universe works, I feel as if our beliefs will also change with that knowledge as well.

-Steve
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Gatsby

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Re: The God debate.
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2008, 12:57:31 PM »

religion vs. science.
This is a common characterization.  Unfortunately,this implies that there's some form of dichotomy, or (in some views) that the two are distinct.

At the core, fundamentally, there is some form of truth.  2+2=4.  The human body has 46 chromosomes.  &c.  I believe that all truth comes ultimately comes from God; the universe He made, the fundamental physics that were created.

Therefore, all attempts to learn more about truth should be encouraged, and I'm generally happy with true science in the rare event that it occurs.

I see what you mean. I suppose the term "science vs. religion" is a poor wording choice since religion and science do follow the same path, but certain areas of science and religion are on different ends.

If I remember correctly, it was during the Germ Theory that the Bible was being broken down by Christians and some began thinking that the Bible was more of a moral compass (which I personally believe most religion serves a purpose as) than a literal history book.

Bleh. >_> I didn't mean to offend anyone if I did.
 
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Mister_E

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Re: The God debate.
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2008, 12:59:20 PM »

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Gatsby

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Re: The God debate.
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2008, 05:39:41 PM »

Haha I think I posted that on here somewhere. XD
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JohnnyAR

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Re: The God debate.
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2008, 05:41:55 PM »

I don't like the Catholic/Christian church. They change their rules, like God calls up on a freakin hotline. I honestly don't trust the pope anymore...
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Gatsby

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Re: The God debate.
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2008, 08:02:32 PM »

I don't like the Catholic/Christian church. They change their rules, like God calls up on a freakin hotline. I honestly don't trust the pope anymore...

Why don't you trust the pope anymore? ANd what rules are you referring to that are changing?
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JohnnyAR

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Re: The God debate.
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2008, 09:00:22 PM »

I don't like the Catholic/Christian church. They change their rules, like God calls up on a freakin hotline. I honestly don't trust the pope anymore...

Why don't you trust the pope anymore? ANd what rules are you referring to that are changing?

He's hiding something, I just know he is. Well one example is that a while ago they kicked Saint Christopher out, he isn't a saint anymore http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070712120517AAFdiyr
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Kazuko

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Re: The God debate.
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2008, 10:16:17 PM »

I dont know what bible you are reading but I dont find anything that is changing well that the catholic church accepts evolution and such.

Do remember that there are passages in the bible and from the dead sea scrolls that have not been discovered or revealed to the public. The vatican keeps everything in their liabraries (Oh I would love to be there some day reading those books) that its too much to update also that the books have been changed overtime

as for the saints being eliminated, like I said the vatican has more info than we all do
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PyronIkari

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Re: The God debate.
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2008, 10:28:45 PM »

I hate religious discussions, because in general, most people that discuss religion know jack nothing about religion.

First, we need to separate a few things.

Religion as a faith,

Religion as a life style

Religion as a thought process.

It's great because, people don't even know the origins of their religions or what they're religions really preach. Christianity formed based on teachings of the Old Testament. The Old Testament... and the New Testament, contradict each other in every single way shape and form.

I don't knock religion. Having something to believe in is very powerful. But it's just that a belief. It isn't a life style. It doesn't control logic, reason, and life. Religion restricts a lot of things in life, and tells us to do a lot of things that go against the better judgment of mankind(based on scientific learning). That's because, science expands, and religion in essence cannot. By changing, it's no longer the religion it was.

I lied... I do hate religion. I support belief, but not religion. Religions were created to prevent people from doing things they "shouldn't". All religions had the same basis, it explained the unknown(at the time) and it said you would be punished if you did bad stuff.  This was the basis. Then it expanded and kept adding more and more rules and regulations.

If you let blind faith jurisdict all of your actions, you're not living as your religion states that it intends for you to live. It just all goes in circles. All religions are faulty and have holes in them. All of them contradict themselves... and much like all made up stories, it started with a single question. An answer was made up for that answer, so a new answer had to made. As it expanded more and more holes appeared.

Believe in something, feel completely free to, I support it. But try not to let it control how you live.
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Re: The God debate.
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2008, 10:35:04 PM »

I hate religious discussions, because in general, most people that discuss religion know jack nothing about religion.

Cannot stress this enough. Perhaps I'll make a longer post, later.
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Re: The God debate.
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2008, 11:19:25 PM »

God, if you exist stop me from posting this!
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otakuapprentice

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Re: The God debate.
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2008, 11:35:55 PM »

I've started to wane in my belief of religion and such.

I accept the idea of religion, but I don't accept the actual existence(more or less).
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