I Ignore You, You Ignore Me Feature?

[astroboy]

Is it possible to add a feature on this forum such that if I put an annoying Troll on my ignore-list,
that Troll cannot read my posts?

I think this would be a wonderful feature.
It would defend a user's privacy against annoying trolls.
Furthermore it would most likely eliminate the most hardcore Trolls.
A troll would have to limit how many people he chooses to piss off,
or he might find himself unable to read the majority of the posts on this message board.

a good idea huh?

[RaddaX2]

Or you could just try to build some nerve and self-esteem.  HAR HAR HAR


edit: okay but seriously.  The ignore feature is as good as is.

[LordKefka]

Is it possible to add a feature on this forum such that if I put an annoying Troll on my ignore-list,
that Troll cannot read my posts?

I think this would be a wonderful feature.
It would defend a user's privacy against annoying trolls.
Furthermore it would most likely eliminate the most hardcore Trolls.
A troll would have to limit how many people he chooses to piss off,
or he might find himself unable to read the majority of the posts on this message board.

a good idea huh?

No one is stalking anyone or caring whether that person used the ignore button.

I don't think we have a problem with that here.......yet. Plus, it's pretty calm as of recently so I don't know where the "hardcore troll" thing came from. Maybe in the distant future. For now though, there hasn't been a need for anything like that.

[Stormfalcon]

I have to agree.  The ignore function is good enough as it is.  Even if a troll reads your posts and goes to town with them, you don't even have to read what he's saying (unless someone quotes him), let alone respond to him.

[Jun-Watarase]

Or you could just try to build some nerve and self-esteem.  HAR HAR HAR

This.

[Nyxyin]

Is it possible to add a feature on this forum such that if I put an annoying Troll on my ignore-list,
that Troll cannot read my posts?

Actually, such a feature has major technical problems.  Because the forum is readable by any random non-logged in guest, even if the feature were implemented, all the troll has to do is log out to see your posts.  The feature just doesn't seem to be technically worth the effort.

[PyronIkari]

Is it possible to add a feature on this forum such that if I put an annoying Troll on my ignore-list,
that Troll cannot read my posts?

Actually, such a feature has major technical problems.  Because the forum is readable by any random non-logged in guest, even if the feature were implemented, all the troll has to do is log out to see your posts.  The feature just doesn't seem to be technically worth the effort.

Not to mention, it defeats the purpose of things. I dunno, I've always found ignore features completely pointless. You can choose not to read someone's posts, but in actual threads, by omitting someones post completely, you're missing out on valuable points of the thread. 5 people can be discussing something, and if 1 of them is ignored by one person, a huge point of the argument is missed, therefore it leads to confusion, redundancy, and other issues.

Ignore isn't usually used to ignore trolls... it's used to ignore people that they feel are a threat. Anyone who doesn't fit in the mental box of what they want someone else to be. Realistically there's no reason to have to ignore someone unless they are literally just spamming. If they were though, it'd be up to the moderators to deal with the problem, so even then, ignoring is pointless.

It's just because people are scared of other people and the small chance that, these other people might be right... without being nice.

[sysadmin]

Is it possible to add a feature on this forum such that if I put an annoying Troll on my ignore-list,
that Troll cannot read my posts?

Probably, but I won't implement a feature like that.

It would defend a user's privacy against annoying trolls.
Furthermore it would most likely eliminate the most hardcore Trolls.
A troll would have to limit how many people he chooses to piss off,
or he might find himself unable to read the majority of the posts on this message board.

It would do none of these.

I'll have to give two answers, "above the line" "below the line"

Even if this feature was enabled, no one is going to stop being a jerk because some people on the internet have blocked their posts.  Sorry, but people don't change like that.  "Shame" and "Inconvenience" are very poor motivators to improve behavior.

Any privacy issue is mitigated because people have a habit of quoting entire posts for their replies, so the target isn't really going to lose anything.  Besides, this is a public place on the internet.  The expectations of privacy should be somewhat limited.

Sorry, but this feature would just cause some inconvenience for those who are ignored, but that's all.  There would be no change in overall behavior.


Okay, below the line answer.

The ignore feature was added by request.  It is simply a feature that enables a passive-aggressive behavior.  I absolutely hate it, but I will leave it in as a feature.  Yes, I have the ability to do things I don't agree with.

If someone finds a "troll", do people report it? No.
Do people send me a PM about it?  Not really.
Do people know how to confront the situation?  No, that requires skill and effort.
Do people simply "scroll down" and not let "random idiot on the internet" affect them?  No, that requires a spine and self-esteem.
No, people want the ability to push a button and pretend that the issue goes away forever.

I'll give the button, and let them keep pretending.


Look, there are 15 users ignoring 10 accounts.  One person is being ignored by 9 of them.  I wonder who it could be.
But instead of actually using names or references to the specific situation or to individual incidents, I have to reply to vague statements of "annoying Troll".

I understand the presence of passive-aggressiveness.  I just don't have to like it.


Okay, that's it for the below the line section.  So, thank you for the idea, but I don't plan on changing anything.

At best, I can turn on the feature to show people who is ignoring them.  But that won't really affect the forums as a whole.

Best,
sysadmin

[Nyxyin]

If someone finds a "troll", do people report it? No.

The rules make it quite clear that "You're probably better off just ignoring it, or posting a one-sentence reply".  In general, when taken as a whole, the rules seem to suggest that reporting is very likely to be ridiculed.  While the rules also say, "Posting a one-sentence reply to avoid escalating a situation is completely encouraged", such a tactic has been demonstrated to not work.  Furthermore, one-sentence replies seem to raise the ire of moderators in other sections of the forum.  One example is Reply #39 at http://forums.fanime.com/index.php/topic,11159.20.html  It looks to me like lyricaldanichan was posting a one-sentence reply to avoid escalating the situation (which is encouraged by the rules).  However, in reply #42, Mizuki said to not do that, implying that lyricaldanichan was the one who's "trolling".  View of whether someone is trolling seem to vary drastically from reader to reader, as from my point of view, lyricaldanichan seemed very clearly to be avoiding escalation, not trolling.

Taken as a whole, the rules seem to encourage ignoring over reporting.  I can report instead, if that's what you'd prefer.  (However, given the forum I'm playing in, I suspect my report would go to Mizuki instead, and so I don't expect reporting to do anything useful.)

Do people know how to confront the situation?  No, that requires skill and effort.

PyronIkari was temporarily banned (years ago, maybe?) when I first ran into him here.  It sounds to me that the admins have tried to confront the situation earlier and have made no headway.  The amount of skill and effort required to successfully confront the situation seems to be beyond the level of the admins here.  At least, I'm fine with that part.  After all, I understand that Fanime is a volunteer effort and people are doing this for free.  However, I think it's unfair to obliquely imply that other people should try to confront the situation.  (Even if the implication were unintentional, the words and tone can be interpreted that way, so I wanted to respond to the words, whether or not the intentions match.)  If the admins put effort into confronting the problem and failed, what chance do the rest of us have?  Even banning PyronIkari didn't change anything.

Do people simply "scroll down" and not let "random idiot on the internet" affect them?  No, that requires a spine and self-esteem.

It also requires time to scan past a post.  If a user never posts anything worth reading, then it's efficient to not waste time on scrolling.  The ignore button is a convenient, time-saving feature, no matter what the level of spine or self-esteem in the person using it might be.  Besides, I would argue that people with less self esteem would be too afraid to use the ignore button because they would worry about "missing out".  So, it's a lose-lose situation: people can be called spineless for using the ignore button, or people can be called spineless for being so insecure about missing out that they don't use it when they're going to just "scroll down" anyways.  If they're going to be called spineless either way, they might as well choose the less time-consuming way of doing it.

No, people want the ability to push a button and pretend that the issue goes away forever.

In my case, I put PyronIkari on ignore because other people always echo his positions anyways.  I acknowledge that it doesn't make him or his ideas go away, but it does remove excess repetition and redundancy from the conversation.  Many people will repeat what he says without such a high hatred-to-signal ratio (although I do question that ratio part in a few cases).  The thing is that, on this forum, PyronIkari isn't just any "random idiot on the internet", and treating him in such a way doesn't help.  If he were truly some "random idiot on the internet", he would not be a problem.  Whether the admins here see it or not, he does have a level of power over the forum that "random idiots" do not wield.  He has proven to be beyond the power of the admins to fix.

Furthermore, while no single ignore fixes the issue, neither does any single vote.  Still, people seem to consider voting to be a good thing.

Look, there are 15 users ignoring 10 accounts.  One person is being ignored by 9 of them.  I wonder who it could be.

So, it sounds like the ignores do send a message and get noticed when they add up -- somewhat like the way votes do.

But instead of actually using names or references to the specific situation or to individual incidents, I have to reply to vague statements of "annoying Troll".

Would naming names help?  Would it help enough to deal with the inevitable backlash?

If I can be assured that it will help the situation, then I will hit the report button when I see someone "being an asshole".  However, I suspect that the response would be that the particular instances of "being an asshole" would be allowed on some technicality ("he/she only called the idea stupid") or be "justified" for some reason or another and that reporting would only annoy the moderators.

I understand the presence of passive-aggressiveness.  I just don't have to like it.

Would you prefer for people to be just plain aggressive hating assholes rather than being passive-aggressive?  Or would you prefer people to just be more passive and use inefficient methods like manually ignoring people?  Assuming nobody can fix PyronIkari and supposing that your preferences matter to the rest of us, how would you prefer targets to deal with the problem?

I think it's unwarranted and unfair of you to be casting aspersions on those who use the ignore feature.  Frankly, it sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.  You say things that seem to indicate that you acknowledge that there's a problem with "hating" going on in the forums here, and most of the time, it's low-key and small enough to be easy to ignore or justify away, and it's very easy to say that he's better now and he certainly wasn't as bad as "before" (where "before" is the same static point, so he's really only better than that one horrible point, not in the process of getting better and better over time), but the issue seems to keep coming up every now and then.  Even a ban does not stop PyronIkari's "hating" (since he just posts through JunWatarase), and it didn't change his behavior.  Partial ignoring (behavior, not button) and/or partial denial seems to be the current admin solution, and I think it's good that it's being made technologically more efficient for others to follow suit.  I don't think it's fair to hate the ignore feature or to think less of those who use it.

[RaddaX2]

BLAH BLAH BLAH I'm so butt hurt over pyron BLAH BLAH

NERVE and SELF ESTEEM, do you have it?


^^ see now this is trolling. This is what people should be banned for.  Ban me now but don't ban/ignore people who actually back their post with solid arguments.

[ewu]

If someone finds a "troll", do people report it? No.

The rules make it quite clear that "You're probably better off just ignoring it, or posting a one-sentence reply".  In general, when taken as a whole, the rules seem to suggest that reporting is very likely to be ridiculed.  While the rules also say, "Posting a one-sentence reply to avoid escalating a situation is completely encouraged", such a tactic has been demonstrated to not work.  Furthermore, one-sentence replies seem to raise the ire of moderators in other sections of the forum.  One example is Reply #39 at http://forums.fanime.com/index.php/topic,11159.20.html  It looks to me like lyricaldanichan was posting a one-sentence reply to avoid escalating the situation (which is encouraged by the rules).  However, in reply #42, Mizuki said to not do that, implying that lyricaldanichan was the one who's "trolling".  View of whether someone is trolling seem to vary drastically from reader to reader, as from my point of view, lyricaldanichan seemed very clearly to be avoiding escalation, not trolling.

Taken as a whole, the rules seem to encourage ignoring over reporting.  I can report instead, if that's what you'd prefer.  (However, given the forum I'm playing in, I suspect my report would go to Mizuki instead, and so I don't expect reporting to do anything useful.)

Do people know how to confront the situation?  No, that requires skill and effort.

PyronIkari was temporarily banned (years ago, maybe?) when I first ran into him here.  It sounds to me that the admins have tried to confront the situation earlier and have made no headway.  The amount of skill and effort required to successfully confront the situation seems to be beyond the level of the admins here.  At least, I'm fine with that part.  After all, I understand that Fanime is a volunteer effort and people are doing this for free.  However, I think it's unfair to obliquely imply that other people should try to confront the situation.  (Even if the implication were unintentional, the words and tone can be interpreted that way, so I wanted to respond to the words, whether or not the intentions match.)  If the admins put effort into confronting the problem and failed, what chance do the rest of us have?  Even banning PyronIkari didn't change anything.

Do people simply "scroll down" and not let "random idiot on the internet" affect them?  No, that requires a spine and self-esteem.

It also requires time to scan past a post.  If a user never posts anything worth reading, then it's efficient to not waste time on scrolling.  The ignore button is a convenient, time-saving feature, no matter what the level of spine or self-esteem in the person using it might be.  Besides, I would argue that people with less self esteem would be too afraid to use the ignore button because they would worry about "missing out".  So, it's a lose-lose situation: people can be called spineless for using the ignore button, or people can be called spineless for being so insecure about missing out that they don't use it when they're going to just "scroll down" anyways.  If they're going to be called spineless either way, they might as well choose the less time-consuming way of doing it.

No, people want the ability to push a button and pretend that the issue goes away forever.

In my case, I put PyronIkari on ignore because other people always echo his positions anyways.  I acknowledge that it doesn't make him or his ideas go away, but it does remove excess repetition and redundancy from the conversation.  Many people will repeat what he says without such a high hatred-to-signal ratio (although I do question that ratio part in a few cases).  The thing is that, on this forum, PyronIkari isn't just any "random idiot on the internet", and treating him in such a way doesn't help.  If he were truly some "random idiot on the internet", he would not be a problem.  Whether the admins here see it or not, he does have a level of power over the forum that "random idiots" do not wield.  He has proven to be beyond the power of the admins to fix.

Furthermore, while no single ignore fixes the issue, neither does any single vote.  Still, people seem to consider voting to be a good thing.

Look, there are 15 users ignoring 10 accounts.  One person is being ignored by 9 of them.  I wonder who it could be.

So, it sounds like the ignores do send a message and get noticed when they add up -- somewhat like the way votes do.

But instead of actually using names or references to the specific situation or to individual incidents, I have to reply to vague statements of "annoying Troll".

Would naming names help?  Would it help enough to deal with the inevitable backlash?

If I can be assured that it will help the situation, then I will hit the report button when I see someone "being an asshole".  However, I suspect that the response would be that the particular instances of "being an asshole" would be allowed on some technicality ("he/she only called the idea stupid") or be "justified" for some reason or another and that reporting would only annoy the moderators.

I understand the presence of passive-aggressiveness.  I just don't have to like it.

Would you prefer for people to be just plain aggressive hating assholes rather than being passive-aggressive?  Or would you prefer people to just be more passive and use inefficient methods like manually ignoring people?  Assuming nobody can fix PyronIkari and supposing that your preferences matter to the rest of us, how would you prefer targets to deal with the problem?

I think it's unwarranted and unfair of you to be casting aspersions on those who use the ignore feature.  Frankly, it sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.  You say things that seem to indicate that you acknowledge that there's a problem with "hating" going on in the forums here, and most of the time, it's low-key and small enough to be easy to ignore or justify away, and it's very easy to say that he's better now and he certainly wasn't as bad as "before" (where "before" is the same static point, so he's really only better than that one horrible point, not in the process of getting better and better over time), but the issue seems to keep coming up every now and then.  Even a ban does not stop PyronIkari's "hating" (since he just posts through JunWatarase), and it didn't change his behavior.  Partial ignoring (behavior, not button) and/or partial denial seems to be the current admin solution, and I think it's good that it's being made technologically more efficient for others to follow suit.  I don't think it's fair to hate the ignore feature or to think less of those who use it.

I concur, replies like this are what I call trolling.... (I love how I quoted the entire thing too....like ugly giant pictures)

BTW, L3sli3_Lov3s_Chu insulted the mods and admins.....that made them unhappy (to put it lightly). I urge against it. Be constructive and not critical and your arguments will be taken seriously, otherwise they will be scrolled past and ignored like I just did.

[Kazuko]

I think the ignore feature is pointless It just lets people be ignorant with posts and apparently those who get butthurt easily can just click a button when they feel "threatned" besides who is trolling? PyronIkari isnt really trolling, If he did that he would have been posting like Lyricaldanichan or whatever its spelled like in the serious buisness section. Pyron isnt a troll hes just bringing up his points sure they might not be in a tame sense but a more in your face attitude to be honest I have met the guy on more than one occasion and hes a pretty cool guy. I cannot understand why people baww and whine for an ignore button when hes not a real troll to begin with. Nerves people...get some, If you dont like what its said then dont read it is it not that hard really? People are lazy and dont want to face their points wether its being said by pyron or by someone else. Trolling is someone who spams a forum with useless argumentation and picspam/4ch related stuff. Well from what I have seen from other forums/ Communities anyway

Nyxin the serious business thread has its own set of rules some tie in with the forums rules but there has to be an elaboration on why someone said what in a non joking sense its serious buisness meaning debates, validation of points not just one line sentances about masturbation or whatever and joking it off

[RaddaX2]

PyronIkari isnt really trolling, If he did that he would have been posting like Lyricaldanichan or whatever its spelled like in the serious buisness section.

In lyricaldanichans case it was just a poorly thought out idea, not trolling.  People troll to get a rise out of others with no intention to meaningfully contributing to the topic at hand.  Even if her suggestion was light hearted, she did have some meaning behind it.  Even on the Serious Business forum it's just an honest mistake. On the other hand if I had proposed that the answer to sex without pregnancies were...

Sex in the butt with another man >:3

then that would have been trolling.

Oh and let's get this out of the way.  I don't like pyron either but banning/ignoring him doesn't stop making him right when he's right, or prove that he's wrong when he's wrong.  Learn to tell the difference and maybe you'll be able to admit when you're wrong without having your ego trashed.  We don't need anymore ignore features than we already have.


Btw spoiler action is awesome!

[Stormfalcon]

Trolling varies from forum to forum.  For example, Fanime's boards aren't my home forum, though I do spend some time here on a regular basis and participate to a certain extent.  The forum I do call "home" (www.rpg.net) has a stronger moderation style than here (to put it mildly) and Mikey would very much be considered a troll there due to rules against personal and group attacks there as well as his usual posting style demonstrated here on these forums, and he'd be permabanned in very short order, with a healthy side of snark from the administration, if he acted there as he does here.  Hence, I view him as a troll and ignore-list him as such.  Likewise, disagreements I have with moderation here stem from the fact that I agree more with the stronger form of moderation used there and some other forums that I've been to.

On a related note, it's also why I favor the installation and use of the ignore button on general principle.  There, the use of it is encouraged by administration and user base alike when it comes to trolls and certain other users.  There, it's viewed as a way to head off flame wars that would lead to a number of bans and suspensions to be handed out, as well as a way to avoid being dragged down to the level of trolls.  In short, it's removing the temptation to participate rather than subject oneself to it, and it cuts down on headaches for both admins/mods as well as users alike.  In my experience there, it works.  I used to think like some others in this thread do, that the ignore list was a copout and avoidance mechanism.  However, experience has taught me otherwise.  Rather than risk sinking to the troll's level by replying to something they spout off on that's infuriating, it's far better to remove the temptation to do so in the first place.  The troll doesn't deserve to have his spew read to begin with (he has the right to say it, but he doesn't have the right to be heard), and if you know that even glancing over his garbage is going to raise your blood levels and add to the levels of acrimony on the board, then why have that garbage there to begin with?

To put it another way, try to see it as if you're a person on a diet.  You know chocolate cake is going to tempt you into breaking that diet.  Someone puts chocolate cake right in front of you as you're enjoying a meal.  The smart thing to do is to remove the chocolate cake from your sight so that you don't have that temptation to begin with, and conversely, the stupid thing to do is to leave it in your sight, because you know that leaving it there is going to be bad for you eventually (either by you giving in to temptation, or the stress of trying to keep from giving in to temptation).  The use of the ignore button is like removing the chocolate cake in this case.  You know the troll's posts are going to raise your blood pressure level, even if you just skim over them, and you know that responding to them will only add to the acrimony already present in the discussion and possibly make you just as bad as the troll is.  Knowing that, it's far smarter to remove what the troll has to say from your sight than to risk becoming just as bad as he is.

Now, I've seen it raised in this and other threads that the ignore button cuts parts out of a conversation and is bad because of it.  However, those arguments ignore the possibility (or, more rather, certainty) that those who use it don't consider whatever points the troll has (if any) to be worth considering or discussing to begin with.  There comes a point when, after it becomes evident that discussion with someone would be pointless, counterproductive, and/or an exercise in masochism, it's simply far better to wash your hands of him and be done with him.  Whatever points he may have are wasted because he simply could not or would not convey them in a civil and constructive manner.  The ignore button is merely a tool by which users can wash their hands of the troll more effectively without running the temptation to feed him or otherwise sink to his level, and to make life easier for other users as well as admins and mods by cutting down on the acrimony that's dragging down the level of discussion and cutting down on the friendliness of the forums.

tl;dr version of the above paragraph: it's our way of telling trolls to "talk to the hand".

[sysadmin]

There's at least three or four issues I can single out, and so I'll draw them here.  If I skip one, well, that's how it goes.
My opinion on the ignore feature is unchanged, and while I acknowledge that I paint with a large brush, I stand by my comments as a matter of public record.

In general, when taken as a whole, the rules seem to suggest that reporting is very likely to be ridiculed.

I will go on record, and say that reporting is a viable method of dealing with an issue.  While I do encourage people to either "work out their differences amongst themselves" or even "just rise above those differences", I acknowledge that this is not always possible.

If a post is reported, it goes to the moderators of the forum, as well as the global forum administrators.  In other words, I read every Reported Post message.  While I can only speak for myself, I have never ridiculed or laughed at a serious Reported Post message.  

That said, I may disagree with the post reporter, especially if they recommend a particular type of action.  But if I see trends or patterns in the Reported Post messages, that is something that I take note of.

... Overall forums...

The forums themselves have evolved over time, since I created the first official Linux box.  Realistically, my active administration of the forums began in September 2008.  Since then, I've attempted to run things in a fairly straight matter: posted rule sets, defined boundaries, rebalanced subforums, appointing moderators, letting these mods define their areas.

Honestly, I retain the power to just outright go out and ban/lockout/delete anyone who I don't like.  In theory, I could simply just look at an offending post and say "Yeah, that crosses a line" and deal with it unilaterally.  However, I've chosen instead to defer to the mods in charge, who have selected their thresholds of actions.

This approach can debated, and I'm sure I can get a dozen of competing views on how I should run things.
But this is the current setup, and I will let things evolve at their own speed for now.

... Serious Business ...

Serious Business has seen many different changes since its inception.  It is currently positioned as a debate or discussion forum, and has different standards than say "that forum that deals with hotel and facilities questions."  While it does have its own ruleset, it needs more work, and I'm working with Mizuki on those things.  

PyronIkari was temporarily banned (years ago, maybe?) when I first ran into him here.  It sounds to me that the admins have tried to confront the situation earlier and have made no headway.

I wasn't sure how long this was going to turn into a Mikey referendum, but that's the way it goes.
I do not really want to discuss this particular banning because "it happened before September 2008" and "there were some political issues at the time that I don't want to discuss here".

I can take a megalomaniac approach and just ban anyone who is the subject of a valid Reported Post.  But I'm not sure I want to go in that direction.  Again, this can be an issue of debate, but perhaps another thread.

However, I feel that the actual approach needs to be a balance with "setting expectations on the behavior I want" (generally, the Fanime sections of the forums need to be above reproach, but the other sections can be more relaxed), and maybe "being more active and unilateral in the punishments I recommend/implement" (banning and probation are just two tools of many).   Part of justifying professional action, I feel, is being able to say "yes, you crossed this line, now take a break".

This requires a lot more work (writing guidelines, adding tools) on my part.  In a perfect world, I'd have time to do this work, but I have literally two dozen other technical projects ahead of it in the queue (using the literal sense of literally).



So what does all this mean (after I've spent over an hour writing this)?  I guess a mixture of patience and discretion is in order.

Again, I have no objection to people using the ignore feature.  I've added it, and will leave it in.  People have the choice to use it, or to employ other methods of ignorage.   However, I only point that this is not the only recourse people have.  Correspondingly, I do not feel it's the only recourse I have to encourage the forums to evolve into where I want them to be.

p.s. the discussion is healthy, and is causing me to rethink some things.  thanks to all.

[Nyxyin]

BLAH BLAH BLAH I'm so butt hurt over pyron BLAH BLAH

NERVE and SELF ESTEEM, do you have it?

Yes.  As I said, "inevitable backlash".  I knew the nature of negative responses I was going to get, but I was confident that I could handle it, and I did hold some hope that it would be worth it.

I read every Reported Post message. [...] That said, I may disagree with the post reporter, especially if they recommend a particular type of action.  But if I see trends or patterns in the Reported Post messages, that is something that I take note of.

That's very good to know.  I do not expect any specific action be taken, but it's good to know that reports will be read and considered seriously.

Honestly, I retain the power to just outright go out and ban/lockout/delete anyone who I don't like.  [...]  I will let things evolve at their own speed for now.

In one sense, this sounds like a message that you want this forum to "belong" to everybody else too.

To the people who want this community to be more respectful of our fellow anime fans, I'd like to say that this seems to be an indication that we have a voice, and I'd like to encourage people to use it to help others.  By being given a voice, we have a responsibility to use it when we feel that it's necessary.  If you see people "being an asshole" to others, please report it.  I will start doing the same.  In order to do this, I have unignored PyronIkari.  I would discourage people from reporting things for themselves because it's hard to be objective.  I know it's hard to trust other people to report it for you, but change has to start somewhere.  Also, report abuse even if you disagree with the person being abused.  No matter how stupid you might believe their idea to be, it doesn't help to abuse them.  People don't think better if you abuse them first; abuse only makes people more open to being brainwashed.  Allowing people to be abused just because they're wrong only destroys critical thought and the environment overall.  A report doesn't mean that you agree with the abused, only that you are voting for a non-abusive environment.  Furthermore, if people are watching out for others and reporting abuses, it raises our own awareness of the dynamics at work.

p.s. the discussion is healthy

Thank you.

I wasn't sure how long this was going to turn into a Mikey referendum

I thought it was what was being requested by the mention of one user being ignored by nine people.  After all, it lists in the profile how many people are ignoring the user, so anybody who looked knows who it is.  I went ahead and named the name to get it out into the open in a direct response to "But instead of actually using names or references to the specific situation or to individual incidents, I have to reply to vague statements of 'annoying Troll'."  Frankly, I don't care if he's banned because I fully agree that, even with a ban, "no one is going to stop being a jerk."  I do care that the environment seems to encourage people to mimic the "jerk" part, and I feel partly responsible.  I did get sucked into the "it's not a crime to call stupid things stupid" argument earlier, but I've come to the conclusion that I was wrong.  I'm not sufficiently experienced in the position to know how to explain it to others, but I'm confident that I will be able to one of these days.  Right now, I can only explain in age-old classics, myths, and folktales, and I know that's not good enough.  If I had time, I'd study up more on the psychology of group dynamics to be able to make my argument.

[PyronIkari]

And this is why the Ignore function is stupid. Half the people in this thread cannot see half of the posts because they're ignoring people they disagree with.

People choose to ignore me, because the mods won't ban me(on the basis that I'm not breaking the rules nor am I doing anything really wrong). They don't like me, nor how I present my opinion, and further more, they hate that I make their opinions look stupid. So what do they do? Ignore me.

Ignoring a situation doesn't solve a problem, nor does it lead to bettering anything. It's just a way to make yourself seem right, and not see anyone disagree with you.

Nyxyin can't read a damned thing I say, so really, what's the point of me replying? Well.. for everyone else that can.

Posting a one line reply is NEVER the best thing to do. Because that in itself is trolling. You're BAITING a reply without trying to further the conversation. You have no intention in proving something, you have no intention of listening, you're just trying to piss off the other person by replying with nothing.

Stormfalcon is technically wrong about "trolling" but he is right about forum acceptance. Trolling is one thing, and only one thing. The act of attempting to cause problems without contributing anything worth merit. Things like, posting one liners that lead no where, introducing a line of thought that is inherently flawed and no longer contributing anything to that line(such as what Leslie did). Making a post that only insults someone, doesn't hold any merit on what they're doing, and in no way has no content. These are acts of trolling that all stem from the same place.

Different forum have different rules and standards though about what is allowed. I moderate the Megatokyo forums, which was one of the worst forums I had ever seen when I first joined. It was on par with the gamefaqs forums and over a few years, the moderating staff totally changed that. It's now(for the most part) a really well maintained forum where things stay on topic(no matter what it may be) and people don't get away with trolling. You are free to state your opinion however the hell you want, you can cuss, you can say anything or do anything you well please, as LONG as you stay on topic, present your opinion, and most importantly SUPPORT IT. The only exception is in the advice/discussions topics where giving *bad* advice is not allowed(such as illegal advice or telling someone to do something potentially dangerous).

It's funny how Nyxyin says "someone who never posts something worth reading". And it's obvious that she is referring to me when she says this. Obviously that's more opinion than anything else, but as I said this goes back to "not wanting to hear someone prove *me* wrong".

As much as I would say "that's fine, people can ignore people", I think it's bad for the forum. It promotes half-heard conversations and causes fragmented conversations between people. Someone can reply to me, and someone ignoring me will reply to them not knowing the full basis of what was said, and negating everything I already said. In which it causes logic not to flow correctly, and conversations to be fragmented between people who only see half a conversation.

Think of it like this. You are listening to two people talk and you join the conversation, only you can see one person speaking, but you can't hear what they're saying, and you are only hearing the replies to him.

[Stormfalcon]

It's not that calling a stupid idea stupid is a problem, Nyxyin.  It's the delivery of that point that's the problem.  Anyone can make a valid point if they have one.  However, it's a lot more likely to be heard and considered when that point is delivered in a civil manner.  When it's delivered in a manner befitting a jerk and an asshole, especially if it's done so consistently, it should not be surprising when people start shutting the person making the point out of the conversation.  Whatever points the person may have, regardless of the validity, get lost because the person making them couldn't rein themselves in and act civil towards others.

Real life example of this: at work, it's a given that we're going to have an unhappy customer every now and then.  Sometimes, they have a valid point.  When that customer acts in a civil manner, then the supervisors and managers I work under will try to work with that customer towards a solution that has some measure of satisfaction for all involved.  When the customer cuts loose with the profanity, insults, and yelling, then they get shut down and told "We are through here", with the supervisor or manager moving on to other customers or issues (and when the customer persists after this, we've been known to call the cops to escort the customer off of store property for disturbing the peace).  Even if the customer may have had a valid point, it gets lost when he starts acting in an uncivil manner and gets treated accordingly.

Having a point is one thing.  Your delivery of it will affect how others receive it, if at all.

[ewu]

To build on that, I have asked people to reword their post. I have yet to do that as a poster, but as a mod, I deleted the original post, PM the entirety of the post and ask them to reword it in a constuctive manner. Instead of them ranting, they are providing valuable infomation that contributes to the discussion and more often then not, to solving the issue at hand.

Now dear Mikey may be brutally honest, but through the ego busting he has very valid points that address what he is trying to say. Actually Nyxyin and Pyron are doing very much the same thing, but Pyron does it in a way that addresses the post instead of contradicting it. Nyxyin, you have the beginnings of good logic and a good argument, but the problem is being able to convey it in a manner that others can be receptive to.

[Raymei]

And this is why the Ignore function is stupid. Half the people in this thread cannot see half of the posts because they're ignoring people they disagree with.

HA!

I think if people are going to use the ignore feature  T.T  let 'em. 
If someone is getting so upset that they feel they can't even read their posts and have to ignore them, they're the only ones losing anything.  (It just sucks that you know it'll get used over zealously..)