Feedback for the 2009 Black and White Ball and Dance Lessons during Fanime

[tkdteo]

Hello everyone!

This is Jim, the Department 2nd for the Black and White Ball.  I want to say thank you to all the Fanime goers for making this year's Black and White Ball such a success.  We had a great turn out and from the looks of things everyone had a great time.  

I want to extend a big thank you to all the instructors and assistants for their time teaching and assisting dance classes as well as going to the Black and White Ball to help get everyone on the dance floor and helping everyone have a blast.

So I am asking all that went to the Black and White Ball, how was it?  The good and that bad of it, we would like to know.  We all know you are out there and you have your opinions on the Ball.  Please let us know them so we may improve on things and make next year's Black and White Ball an even bigger success!  Thanks everyone and enjoy the rest of the Fanime Convention!

- Jim
BWBall 2nd

[Drk-X]

Dan here. I think it'd be appropriate for another staff member to break the ice. So this is my feedback and hopefully it can be used to improve things for next year. Overall, I felt things were a huge step up from last year, but there are still some things that need to be worked on.

1. The floor. I'm pretty sure not a single member of the B&W department is happy with the floor after last night and can all agree with me. The condition of the floor was hazardous, uncomfortable, and as I (and a few other people I knew) got to personally experience, a danger to their shoes. In addition to falling apart, a large portion of the floor was sticky. During our Circus performance, there were parts were our feet actually went from being stuck to suddenly slipping due to the various conditions of the floor. Also, it had no give (i.e. unable to properly absorb impact of dancing feet) so I'm willing to bet a lot of people had sore feet. Five hours of social dancing shouldn't make my feet more sore than an entire day at a collegiate competition (where I REALLY need to apply pressure to the floor).

2. Rules. There are a few more that should definitely be addressed for next year. One thing I found I particular was that opposed to last year, where the hazard was that no one stuck to the line of dance, with this year, most obstacles we came across were people either idling on the floor, just talking, or people just totally goofing off. The problem with this was that people had no mind for what was going on around them, thus getting in the way of people who were legitimately trying to dance. This was especially a problem with the tango. While a good number showed up to the tango lesson itself, they were a small percentage out of the total attendees out of the ball. I was walking around and observing, finding that the few people who attended were trying their best, but it was certainly difficult when you had the majority who did not attend, goofing around by charging across the floor attempting their "hollywood tangos", which I should point out, is actually a hazard (e.g. I was even hit in the face by a couple just running around while I was dancing with one of the VIPs).

Something else I'd like to bring up that is not really a huge problem, but I got complaints from some of the people (mainly people I recognized from the classes) about them running into the issue of having a partner that claims they know what they're doing and then practically saying "oops, I lied. Teach me please". I know we can't bar people who don't know the dances and didn't attend the classes from the ball, but it would certainly be courteous if people could answer honestly when asked. The better dances a person has during a night, the more memorable the night will be and I certainly saw some people having a hard time finding the right people to dance with. I'm thankful that some of the other instructors/assistants observed this as well and jumped in with people from the classes, so at least that helped.

One last thing regarding the rules and courtesy. This may or may not be more of a common sense thing, but I found myself puzzled when people decided to simultaneously stomp on the floor when the power was accidentally cut. The floor was already falling apart. I would have figured people would realize that they should be doing less to contribute to its state.

3. Music. Sorry to sound mean, but some of the music did not work. Tempo is pretty important. A lot of the rumbas that were played were International Rumba or Bolero. In other words, they were much too slow. Some of the tangos were actually tango vals (Argentine Tango done to Viennese Waltz music. Somewhat advanced). Some chachas ended up being too fast (mambo/salsa), or too slow (samba). Fortunately, the other instructors and assistants have agreed that we should take a bigger part in determining the music for next year, so that should hopefully be of help.

4. Food. Most social dance parties always have free snacks. Premier Ballroom guarantees their guests a bottle of water and cookies. Dancing uses up a LOT of energy and people REALLY need to stay fueled. Even if they did come and eat before the ball, they may end up becoming exhausted a few hours in (remember that some people do indeed have serious medical conditions that may require to have quick access to a source of nourishment). I felt that the mere snacks offered outside the door were rather overpriced and that may act as a deterrent. People may choose to attempt to endure their hunger rather than pay up. That can be a potential danger.

5. Commitment. This is more of something for within the department, but I don't remember a lot of people who said they wanted to help out ever showing up. When looking at the assigned schedules, I don't recall ever meeting half of the names on the list. Fortunately, there were some experienced dancers at the con that we were able to recruit at the last minute, so we eventually did get the assistance we needed, but I must say that a lot of us that did show up were quite disappointed in those that never came, especially when we had to take over their assigned shifts to pick up on their slack. Hopefully we can do something to get a more committed staff for next year (from what it seems, most of this year's instructors and assistants, including the ones that were recruited at the last second, are set on returning in 2010).

6. One small thing. I wish there was a clock in the room. A visible one. While most lessons went well with the use of our internal clocks (e.g. "It sure feels like an hour has passed") and occassionally asking at the stage, having a clock around would have really helped keep things on pace. This is especially for Sunday, where we had MUCH more people attend than the previous two days. One particular case I was rather unhappy with was the final rumba. Even though that class learned their moves remarkably faster and more thoroughly than the class from Saturday, we lost so much time that we couldn't get nearly as far, which displeased me as people really wanted to learn the final move and I couldn't teach it the way I wanted to.

That's all I can remember for the time being. Hopefully these are taken into consideration. As I said before though, it was definitely a step up from last year's. I'm glad to have been an instructor this year. I hope people enjoyed them more than the ones from the years before and I definitely will remember some particular faces who ended up becoming quite remarkable dancers despite never having touched ballroom dancing before. At the ball itself, the ones who attended the classes definitely stood out more than those who did not, and I was quite pleased in seeing that they felt good about knowing what they were doing. I am also glad the VIPs decided to come after all. I had a blast dancing with them, particularly Karen Dyer and Patricia Ja Lee. I'll definitely be back next year to helping out.

-Dan Tran

[絶望主観]

Before we get into the cheers and jeers, I'd just like to say Thank You! to the staff and volunteers of the Black and White ball!

It may not have been perfect, but that doesn't mean it wasn't awesome!

[idontknow]

...

4. Food. Most social dance parties always have free snacks. Premier Ballroom guarantees their guests a bottle of water and cookies. Dancing uses up a LOT of energy and people REALLY need to stay fueled. Even if they did come and eat before the ball, they may end up becoming exhausted a few hours in (remember that some people do indeed have serious medical conditions that may require to have quick access to a source of nourishment). I felt that the mere snacks offered outside the door were rather overpriced and that may act as a deterrent. People may choose to attempt to endure their hunger rather than pay up. That can be a potential danger.

...

hotel policy usually states that there is no outside food allowed so i guess the only way to change the prices on the food is for fanime to pay partially for some of it. everything else i pretty much agree with you :D

and yes, i would definately like to stress out the music choice. personally, i didn't like the music selection. i was there for like 2 hours and i didn't hear ONE song that "stirred" my interest. again, it might just be me. of course, i'll possibly give next year another chance since this is my first time but if all the balls before this were something similar i wouldn't attend it again.

[KillingYouGuy]

For me, the biggest worries came with how many people are, and how the amount of people to size of room ratio made it sometimes about as physically likely to be able to dance as it is likely for you to phase through a wall.

The music was also, if not "bad", definitely not appropriate to the theme of a formal dance.

[saebel]

First of all, major props to the effort that went into making this B&W Ball more than just a prom-like affair.  I attended AX back in 2007, and I left feeling a little cool about their B&W Ball.  The care and consideration that went into trying to get people to do actual ballroom dancing was awesome.

All in all, I think the ball was a success.  It was crowded the whole time, and it looked like most attendees were having a blast.  (And I *loved* that there was a projector screen that listed what songs were coming up next.  Very nice touch.)  The only feedback I have is more part of a wish list than real criticism:

1) A smoother floor -- Sticky floors pretty much kill any fun that more experienced ballroom dancers are hoping to have.  (Spinning/pivots/etc become useless - unless one can tolerate the torque on the knees that comes with trying to do fast turning motion on a sticky floor.  I can't.  :\)  Combined with the gaps/separations between floor panels, someone wearing stilettos and trying to do a turn could have really hurt her knees/ankles.

(Hmm... I guess the gaps in the floor would be something I'd criticize.  That was just dangerous, whereas sticky floors are actually preferred for non-ballroom dancers -- it cuts down on liability of people slipping and hurting themselves, and all.  I'm surprised the Fairmont was so sloppy about how they put it together.)

2) Music Playlist - Perhaps having someone solely dedicated to keeping an eye on the playlist as it's going?  There were several times where the music went off the list.  (eg: The Final Fantasy VIII Viennese waltz was playing, but list on the projector said a rumba was on.)  For those who took lessons and are new to ballroom dancing, it'd help them out a lot.

By the by -- I didn't mind that some songs weren't painfully precise with their tempos -- being able to dance a bolero to a rumba is fine, since people who are new have it a little easier when practicing the rumba, and more advanced dancers can make the tempo work for whatever they choose to do just fine.

But, that only works when the dances are relatively related.  (Like if it's a song that can work for lindy, east coast swing, and west coast swing all at once.  Or rumba/bolero/international rumba.)  And only when it's sometimes, and not every song.

3) Music Volume - This needed to be much softer... it was painful to be in the room for more than an hour at a time.  My boyfriend and I left early because we simply couldn't handle the volume, which really was a bummer.  If the music needs to be played that loud, perhaps a warning to bring ear plugs should be put in the program...


Ultimately, the thing I think would be awesome for next year is to have a second floor (even if it was a smaller floor) for people who wanted to actually try to do real ballroom dancing.  That way, the people who just wanted to relax and bounce around could still have a good time, while those who wanted to practice what they learned in lessons (line of dance, etc) would have the opportunity to give it a go on a less crowded and less sticky floor.


Actually, now that I think about it, I'm a bit curious why the ball wasn't held in the convention center?  Meeting Rooms J1-J3 seemed bigger than the Regency Ballroom, and the floor there was good for a standard portable floor.  (Much smoother, and better assembled.)


All in all, great event.  Thanks!

[Wabbit98]

Another one of the assistants/instructors, Kevin, here replying to Jim's post and Dan's post as well.

I must agree with Dan that the floor was not in the best shape, even about an hour in, I did try to keep the people I danced with away from that area.  My feet were really sore at the end, even talking with some of the others at the end (Samantha and Josh) there feet were sore as well.  I felt that the floor made it more difficult to lead, to me personally I have found sticky floors make it harder for me to lead personally because I need a little give and such and I can feel where my feet are.

Yeah the tango was a particular problem, and the other dance was the waltz where people would just run across the floor.  I did run into the problem of groups of people just standing in the middle of the floor and either not dancing or dancing in a group of three or more and either running into other people or making it hard to get around them.  I got the opposite I danced the tango three times with the same person because she wanted to dance the tango with someone who actually knows the steps, I can lead a corte (spelling?) just as well as I can lead The Door or The Fan. 

We had to scramble to find enough people to help with the swing class on Sunday, I mean it was nuts with the number of people their, and Travis did an excellent job.  Thankfully Samantha was there to help fill up the slack and some of the new people that decided to help out over the weekend.  Dan I have to also thank you and Elizabeth for coming back early so you could help out on the floor.  Yeah it was annoying on Sunday when I would look at the schedule and see names of people I had not even met, and wondering are we going to have enough.

Clock-on Sunday when I was at the computer up on the stage I did not know if there was a set procedure of when we had to tell the instructors how much time they had left.  Generally I would start off at time at 15 minutes left, not always by shouting but by using hand signals until you noticed.  I know that might not have been enough. 

I had a fun time at the Ball, hopefully everyone I danced with had a good time.  Hopefully everyone I did not dance with had a good time as well and that they all come back next year and bring some friends.  My comments are not meant to say that the Ball was a failure, but that even in success there is room for improvement.

-Kevin Winter

[riftan]

I thought the Ball was pretty decent, but there is room for improvement.

1. The overall space was rather small, I guess it's hard to get a nearby area big enough, but I felt that there was way too many people crammed into the room.

2. The lack of people who knew how to dance and wanted to learn how to dance. I know it's hard to restrict the ball to people who actually know how to dance, but it's ridiculous when people show up with no idea how and resort to parodies of what they see on TV. It's annoying when you get paired up with people who don't even know how to dance for the dance mixers! If you can't do foxtrot, then why the heck are you in the foxtrot mixer? I didn't wait in line to be walked across the dance floor! I second the notion of having another dance floors for people who just want to fool around.

3. Music Volume, it was way too loud. It was fine at first, but after a while I swear the volume went up 10 decibels.

4. Maybe more chairs? It was hard to find a place to sit and rest, and maybe a place where we can leave our belongings or jackets.

I really want to list an age limit as an improvement, but that would mean no adorable little girl. I just think that most of people running around and acting being a nuisance were under 16. I guess it'd be hard to enforce and not fair to younger fans, but it might just sent the tone that the ball isn't some sort of anime prom with freaking allowed.

[Eri Kagami]

I've been to Anime Central's, Sakura Con's, and Anime Expo's ballroom dances, and I must say, that Fanime is the best out of all the anime convention ballroom dances. Unlike high school proms and formals, this has a much more romantic feel to the type of music being played. You dress up pretty to dance pretty, not to dry hump to hip hop.

I'm glad they moved the event to the Fairmont. I really liked the venue this time around. I also liked the fact that water was finally being offered. Last year, we weren't allowed to have water (iirc).

I liked how dress code is enforced and encouraged. At Anime Expo, you can dress like a $3 hooker and still pass.

While I loved this dance, there is room for improvement. I would like to reinstate to lower the volume. When "Ageha Cho" went on, my ears almost popped off. Some of the music wasn't danceable at all and some song choices just made me want to groan. Can we PLEASE kill zombie Macarena? I'll take Rick Astley over that! (Never Gonna Give You Up / Together Forever = easily swingable) The swing and mambo tunes were great choices!

I was surprised this event went until 11PM. I'm used to anime con formal dances going only for two hours. I didn't mind. This event was a great way to end the night!

For the record, I was cosplaying as Chane LaForet from Baccano! Black dress / short hair, if anyone can remember that visual in a dimly lit room.

Thank you for improving this event and taking it to new heights. Loved the demo!

Can we also have a coat check in / bag check? Anime Expo's ballroom dance did that in 2005 (iirc). The staff would need to have a few volunteers for this. It would assure that personal belongings (coats and bags) would be safe and not be moved around.

[darrylhw]

Psuedo-Staffer Darryl, the short Chinese guy in the vest and almost always out of breath for being out of proper dance shape. I personally thought the event was great.  There were problems, but in general all the response I heard was really, really positive.

Problems:

1. The floor was a hazard by the end.  I talked to the guy laying down the floor before the dance started and he indicated that one of the problems was people dancing on the back portion of the floor before the entire floor was laid down.  This apparently caused the guideline he established to be crooked which lead to the uneveness of the floor in the front (which was laid last).  Also the panels in the front apparently were new and not the same type as the ones used in the back and stage left. Pre-dance the floor was servicable, but as the night went on, the gaps got bigger.  The solution is easy, make sure they do it right the next time.  It's not that complicated if they are left alone.  If it is...we should find another floor vender.

2. Music was sometimes a problem.  We all know the many many songs can be interpreted as different dances.  The line of salsa, cha cha, and swing if often blurred.  The problem I had was the lack of more "standard" tempo songs which leave less for interpretation.  Advanced dancers can dance to anything, but with a beginner group, you have to have songs that instantly are recognizable to a dance.

3. Viennese waltz is impossible in most venues without either very experienced dancers or rigid choreography.  The key is space. I believe that due to the size of the venue and the experience level of the average dancer, we should stay away from Viennese waltz, unless we do it as one of those waltz mixer.

4. People already commented about the volume.  I remember that many times I thought it was too loud, but never actually told anybody at the control booth.  I don't know why I didn't.  If it's too loud next year, I'll tell you in person.

5. The room needed much more air.  If we have that many bodies moving...we need more air.  Fans, air condition, air compressors manned by trigger-happy monkeys...something.  I still don't know how some people kept all their clothes on.

6. I think that we need at least one slow song for every two fast song.  There was a stretch which I almost died.  I think it was a mambo, then salsa, then cha cha, then swing, then crazy swing.  Yes I know I don't have to dance all of them, but when there are partners around...well, I have a hard time telling the members of the opposite sex "No".


Pros:
1. Dress code seems to hold pretty well.

2. Water!  God sent!

3. There were alot of people who were eager to dance, but either didn't make it to the lessons, or not completely confortable with their skills in a given dance.  I started giving quick impromptu lessons on the stage right side of the front which drew a tiny crowd. I think that everybody who tried it enjoyed it. I saw other people give quick lessons throughout the night.  Maybe we can something like that to get people involved during the dance, but take the pressure off the partnering aspects in the beginning so that people feel less intimidated. Something off the floor in the corner maybe.

4. I think the lessons are a great, great idea that everybody benefits from.  I was only able to make part of 1 lesson, but I hope that my staffing duties will allow me to make it to more of the classes.

5. Arm bands were genius.  This I think helps all the attendees identify the staffers quickly.  I don't remember if there was an announcement to the general audience on the siqnificance of the garters, but it might not hurt to do a "If you want some help and or want to try out a dance, find the guys with the garters" PSA every-so-often so the attendees know who to go to for assistance.

6. GOHs at the dance is a great boost. Getting to dance with Karen Dyer was awesome.  Eugene, next time don't grab me after I just finished a 4 dance set and was about to pass out to meet and dance with the lovely GOH.  Wait...I'll just build up some stamina.  Ric Meyers knows how to boogie.

All in all, think a very successful event with an overwhelming turnout.  We had a room at full capacity and a line out the door for an Ballroom Dance event which required people to leave the main convention area to attend! It was awesome meeting everybody.

Darryl Hwang
Cosplay

[Drk-X]

hotel policy usually states that there is no outside food allowed so i guess the only way to change the prices on the food is for fanime to pay partially for some of it. everything else i pretty much agree with you

Hmmm, I didn't consider that. The pricing still upsets me.

For me, the biggest worries came with how many people are, and how the amount of people to size of room ratio made it sometimes about as physically likely to be able to dance as it is likely for you to phase through a wall.

The music was also, if not "bad", definitely not appropriate to the theme of a formal dance.

Well, for the first part, I most definitely agree. I addressed it during the rules portion of the lessons, though as I mentioned earlier, rules needed to have been more strictly enforced. People should exercise proper judgment over whether it's safe to take a spot on the dance floor or if it is too crowded, thus meaning that they should wait until the floor clears up.

As for the second, the problem I had with the music, as I had mentioned earlier, was the type of dances they were labeled for. Timing determines the style. As for the theme, I have no problem. No offense, but people need to throw out the idea of what they see as a formal dance. My partner (Elizabeth, one of the other instructors) and I are serious ballroom competitors, so we are well familiar with what's played at both social ballroom parties and competitive ballroom competitions, and many people will be surprised to find more modernized music as opposed to classical. A ball can still be formal even with new-age music.

Of course, if we end up with straight up techno/trance music you would find at a rave, that's a whole different story.

I'm surprised the Fairmont was so sloppy about how they put it together.

Actually, now that I think about it, I'm a bit curious why the ball wasn't held in the convention center?  Meeting Rooms J1-J3 seemed bigger than the Regency Ballroom, and the floor there was good for a standard portable floor.  (Much smoother, and better assembled.)

Agreed. While I wasn't pleased with the floor itself when I first saw it in the convention center, when I saw the floor in the Fairmont, I immediately determined that I would have preferred the floor that the lessons were held on over the actual floor. Like I said, hopefully we get a legitimate ballroom floor next year that actually GIVES into impact.

By the by -- I didn't mind that some songs weren't painfully precise with their tempos -- being able to dance a bolero to a rumba is fine, since people who are new have it a little easier when practicing the rumba, and more advanced dancers can make the tempo work for whatever they choose to do just fine.

Partially agreeing. Slower does make for good practice, but when it gets to the point where a rumba is actually a Bolero (keep in mind that we taught American Rumba, not International Rumba. American Rumba is already fairly faster compared to International), dancing on-time becomes painfully difficult. Believe me, I intentionally practice my International Rumba at the Bolero speed and I would not want to have a complete beginner go through that. Same deal with the cha-cha. If it becomes too fast or too slow, attempting cha-cha makes no sense. People noticed I was doing salsa to faster songs even if they were labeled as cha-cha because there was no way I would be willing to force a beginner to move at a pace even I myself am not comfortable with. As for the sambas, I sat out completely as they were never taught and doing cha-cha so slowly would be uncomfortable to a beginner. (Note: for those who aren't aware, beginners have a tendency to want to keep moving as being comfortable with stillness during a dance is something that MUST be developed)

Clock-on Sunday when I was at the computer up on the stage I did not know if there was a set procedure of when we had to tell the instructors how much time they had left.  Generally I would start off at time at 15 minutes left, not always by shouting but by using hand signals until you noticed.  I know that might not have been enough.

Those indeed helped, but having a clock would have kept me on pace from the start and it would have helped the students as well as they'd be aware of how much time they were spending on a move, thus they would be able to gauge their own progress and ask for help if they feel they may fall behind (remember that I cannot move a class backwards even if one or two people really don't get a move. That is one of the downsides of group classes and I do feel regret if I'm not able to figure out how to help out lost individuals within a time constraint).

2. The lack of people who knew how to dance and wanted to learn how to dance. I know it's hard to restrict the ball to people who actually know how to dance, but it's ridiculous when people show up with no idea how and resort to parodies of what they see on TV. It's annoying when you get paired up with people who don't even know how to dance for the dance mixers! If you can't do foxtrot, then why the heck are you in the foxtrot mixer? I didn't wait in line to be walked across the dance floor! I second the notion of having another dance floors for people who just want to fool around.

I'm glad someone else is speaking up about this as well. There's a problem when only about a third of the people attending the ball actually attended the classes beforehand and as I mentioned earlier, it seemed to be frustrating to those who worked hard during the classes. I'd also like to reiterate the point on how many people failed to follow the set etiquette: idling on the floor, goofing around and becoming potential hazards, being dishonest.

This is just an idea that some other staff/volunteers and I thought of: perhaps we could "encourage" people to attend lessons before attending the ball by creating admission tickets that con-goers can receive IF and ONLY IF they attend at least one of the lessons (where they shall receive these tickets at the end). Upon obtaining a ticket, they can use it to enter the ball (have it torn it half at the entrance, keeping the other half for re-entrance). This would help to ensure that con-goers have at least attended one of the lessons, thus knowing that particular dance and getting to hear about the rules and etiquette of the ball. We can't do much about dishonest people getting their hands on multiple admission tickets and handing them around, but I still find that this may likely be a progressive action.

I really want to list an age limit as an improvement, but that would mean no adorable little girl. I just think that most of people running around and acting being a nuisance were under 16. I guess it'd be hard to enforce and not fair to younger fans, but it might just sent the tone that the ball isn't some sort of anime prom with freaking allowed.

Personally, I disagree (but of course, I couldn't be on all parts of the floor at all times, so maybe I'm missing something). A lot of the people goofing around were around my age (19 for those who were curious). I did waltz with some of the younger people and they did just fine.

I don't judge dancing ability based on age. Here's a fun story: at the studio I train at most often, I'm very comfortable with being watched by other adult dancers or dancers my age, but I HATE dancing at the same time as little kids. Why? Because all the little kids I've seen can dance the crap out of myself and ALL of my friends and rivals in the dancing world. (two of these kids in particular have been featured on Dancing with the Stars during the junior competition of season 7.)

Moral of the story: Don't assume the kids are the ones that don't know what they're doing. Now, the idea that trained kids were at the ball last night is a bit of an exaggeration, but my recollections of dancing with younger students and doing just fine was surely not.

3. Viennese waltz is impossible in most venues without either very experienced dancers or rigid choreography.  The key is space. I believe that due to the size of the venue and the experience level of the average dancer, we should stay away from Viennese waltz, unless we do it as one of those waltz mixer.

The usual procedure for Viennese Waltz (and Quickstep as well. We didn't have that this year, and with good reason....) is to have the MC restrict the amount of people on the floor at once and simply play two Viennese Waltz songs in a row. After the first one is done, everyone is booted off the floor while the second group is welcomed on. Of course, that still wouldn't work with the massive turnout we had this year, but it's something to at least consider.

Overall, I'm happy with the feedback so far; all of it has been within reason and people have given proper details in a clear and concise manner. Eagerly awaiting to read more.

[saebel]

Partially agreeing. Slower does make for good practice, but when it gets to the point where a rumba is actually a Bolero (keep in mind that we taught American Rumba, not International Rumba. American Rumba is already fairly faster compared to International), dancing on-time becomes painfully difficult. Believe me, I intentionally practice my International Rumba at the Bolero speed and I would not want to have a complete beginner go through that. Same deal with the cha-cha. If it becomes too fast or too slow, attempting cha-cha makes no sense. People noticed I was doing salsa to faster songs even if they were labeled as cha-cha because there was no way I would be willing to force a beginner to move at a pace even I myself am not comfortable with. As for the sambas, I sat out completely as they were never taught and doing cha-cha so slowly would be uncomfortable to a beginner. (Note: for those who aren't aware, beginners have a tendency to want to keep moving as being comfortable with stillness during a dance is something that MUST be developed)

It does depend on the song.  It'd have to be a hybrid, where the tempo's just slow enough for the slowest dance, but fast enough that the other dances could still be danced.

That said, in my experience, for raw beginners, they usually prefer slower music so they can think about what they're doing.  They eat that extra time not by stretching their movement, but by half-pausing with each step to think about where the next one is.  I figured more people at the ball would be a raw beginner than someone who has about 1-6 months experience (at which point, the preference in tempo does change).

And, well, I compete rhythm, and I can tell you, I sure as heck prefer a slower tempo, even though that isn't what I get.  :)  [I want more time to milk my cuban motion!  :P]

[PrincessCake]

man I left too early for the picture! I almost passed out, i was very tired and i had a huge blister on my foot!!!!

But next year! I want to instruct the east coast swing!

[Long]

I thought it was a blast. I do however really regret not being able to make any of the dance classes held throughout the day. I had myself promising to myself that I would, but I was working day shifts, so I missed 90% of them, and the last one I wanted to go was right after my shift and my feet were dead tired by then.

But yeah, me and my friends had a ton of fun.

[Drk-X]

It does depend on the song.  It'd have to be a hybrid, where the tempo's just slow enough for the slowest dance, but fast enough that the other dances could still be danced.

That said, in my experience, for raw beginners, they usually prefer slower music so they can think about what they're doing.  They eat that extra time not by stretching their movement, but by half-pausing with each step to think about where the next one is.  I figured more people at the ball would be a raw beginner than someone who has about 1-6 months experience (at which point, the preference in tempo does change).

And, well, I compete rhythm, and I can tell you, I sure as heck prefer a slower tempo, even though that isn't what I get.  :)  [I want more time to milk my cuban motion! :P]

Ah, I know who you are. I suppose that if that's what we're wanting to get out of beginners, I should mention it during lessons (i.e. "It is okay to stay still during a song"). With waltz and foxtrot, I did indeed address that it's okay to stop during the song and just contemplate the next pattern (taught them to sway in place during this. I'm pleased to find that a lot of people who attended the lesson got this), but with Rumba, when people were dancing the slower songs, they'd keep the tempo they were used to in the lessons (I used "Big Girls Don't Cry", 151 bpm, so fairly medium speed) rather than keeping time. Hopefully, taking a minute to talk about being okay with stillness may help a bit. I should devise another way to eat time. Yes, for dancers, cuban motion is definitely the way to go, but with the hour constraint, I definitely cannot train proper cuban motion. Maybe I can push for some kind of a Latin workshop next year. I'd be more than happy to teach that.

Oh yeah, one thing. For those who attended the Tango lesson, you should have gotten a taste of an Argentine Tango demo (a bit trickier to teach, a lot more relaxed to learn due to no line of dance, a hug instead of a dance frame, and room for improvisation). Make it very clear if you'd like to learn that next year! Also, for those who came to the final swing class, Elizabeth and I also did demos for West Coast Swing (nightclub style version of swing. Very linear, relaxed, and more appropriate for hiphop and R&B. Adaptable to many tempos) as well as Lindy Hop (hectic eight count swing. Very quick and energetic. If this is wanted, it would need to be an intermediate class so people can get their foundation in EC Swing first).

So make sure to include in your feedback whether or not you'd like Argentine Tango, WC Swing, or Lindy Hop! (for people who attended the classes and saw the demos or know for sure what the dances are)

[unluckycharm13]

Overall, I thought the Black and White Ball was good; but, there were a LOT of improvments that should be made for next year. I will try not to put too much on one subject since many people have already commented on the topics.

1. The Floor
The Floor was by far the biggest issue concerning injuries to guests at the Black and White Ball. The floor seperating during the dance was extremely dangerous to those who were wearing high heels. I almost got injured on the floor while doing a salsa when my heel almost got stuck in one of the gaps on the floor. Plus, at least half of the floor was sticky and unacceptable for those who were trying to dance the dances shown on the projector. Furthermore, the sticky floor caused much residue to build up on my dance shoes, which were not cheap to start off with. Overall, I agree mostly with everyone's comments on this topic. Not to mention, since the floor is not meant for dancing, many of the instructors/assistant's bodies were sore after days of working and being at the B&W Ball.

2. Music

The music playlist needs to be revised by all instructors and assistants ASAP!!! Many of the songs played during the Ball were mismatched to what was on the playlist. For example, Samba songs were being played as Salsa songs(Samba timing is a-1-a-2-a-3-a-4 while Salsa timing is 1,2,3,5,6,7, two completely different dances).For those who believe that songs are "open to interpretation", this is NOT always true. You cannot just pull a random heavy metal or rock song out of your butt and call it a Foxtrot. There are specific tempos for each dance that need to be followed. As an experienced ballroom dancer and competitor, I understand that some Tango songs can work for a Cha-Cha(the tempos can work together with some songs); but two dances with completely different tempos and timing(ex: Viennese Waltz and Rumba) CANNOT be danced to the same music! Plus, there are two songs from anime movies that would have worked beautifully as waltzes("Waltz of Chihiro" from "Spirited Away" and "The Wizard's Waltz" from "Howl's Moving Castle"), yet they were not played at the Ball. Also, why were dances such as Mambo on the playlist when it wasn't taught at the lessons? About the Rumba songs, they were WAY TOO slow. The tempos played for Rumba were either International Rumba(very different from it's American counterpart taught at the lessons) or a Bolero(an intermediate dance that takes much technique and control to master). Faster songs needed to be played because trying to do an American Rumba to an extremely slow song is painful for the beginning dancer who has not yet developed control of his/her movements.

3. Instructors/Assistants at B&W Ball and Lessons
Since not everyone at the Black and White Ball went to the lessons, an announcement should have been made that anyone with a white arm band was an instructor/assistant and could dance with anyone who did not have a partner. Also, some instructors/assistants did NOT show up for their assigned lessons! This resulted in other instructors/assistants taking over lessons and working more hours than needed! For those who did not show up, it is one matter to say that you want to assist/instruct at B&W Ball and another matter of actually being at the lessons. But if you do not show up, then please tell Eugene, Jim, or anyone else instructing/assisting that you cannot make it! Fortunately, there was one instructor who had the courtesy of notifying the staff about not being able to come to a lesson. To that person, thank you so much!

4. Food

No comment, because that is how dissapointed I was about this topic.

5. The Dancing

First of all, there were people on the inner portion AND the edge of the floor who were standing around in circles and talking to one another or going against line of dance.This is hazardous and dangerous to those who were trying to follow the line of dance. Because of this, those dancing in line of dance had to tell people to watch out or to get out of the way when dancing(Yes, people dancing in line of dance have the right-of-way over those standing there or not dancing in line of dance). Furthermore, as an experienced dancer, I felt insulted when people who didn't know the Tango tried their Hollywood interpretation of the dance(also known as charging across the room in a disorderly fashion and laughing at the same time) when there was an excellent Tango lesson taught on Sunday in the morning. Please, if you don't know how to do the dance, please do not make fun of it and ruin it for those who do know the dance and are trying to move across the room via line of dance. Tango is a dance that requires technique and much practice to master and is much more that charging across the room in a futile attempt to do what is called "The Promenade".

That is all I have to say about this topic in general. I hope that many improvements are made so that this event can get even better than it is now.

[Snowchef]

well since most of the pros and cons were stated and no need to be a broken record,

can we leave feedback here on the dance classes?

i thought the dance classes were awesome, and wished the ball could have been as awesome as the dance classes.

i didn't get to the ball at 6, but i think it would be awesome to have one last quick refresher class at the ball site before the ball started. like let's say at 5pm or so run through all the basic movements in case any of us, like myself forgot.

umm also would it be possible to hold dance classes on day zero? for those of us who really are enthuisastic about it.

and yes i want argentine tango next year.

you guys are all awesome. i'm so going to take more classes and show up in prime condition.

[Wabbit98]

As an assitant/iinstructor myself I would like to hear comments about how the classes went.

-Kevin

[Drk-X]

umm also would it be possible to hold dance classes on day zero? for those of us who really are enthuisastic about it.

I'd be more than happy, though they'd have to be in the evening due to...

1. The floor will probably be set up during the day
2. I tend to have my last final exam on the day before the convention.

Elizabeth and I actually were there on Thursday evening and we actually did give out some instruction. (a few people were attempting waltz, but didn't quite have the footwork)

Glad people like Argentine Tango. I'll come up with a good way to teach it.

Also, if people want Disco Hustle to be taught during the regular classes, speak up. It seemed to be well received on Saturday.

[Snowchef]

well the dance classes i thought were awesome, i did feel thought that they seemed a bit short, like maybe if we had more practice time. because at the black and white ball i think my mind drew a blank. but i guess i can't expect much from a crash course.

but all in all i felt the classes were well done and very helpful. just wish i was a better student. ^_^