Paid For Pre Reg, But Forced To Accept Early Reg

Started by SukebeStudios, May 26, 2011, 10:04:57 PM

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Nina Star 9

I also prefer badges with names as opposed to badges without names and a wristband. Wristbands are uncomfortable, unsightly in photos, and cannot be worn with certain costumes. (Especially considering that I wouldn't physically be able to wear a wristband under some cosplays [with tight gloves] or over the costume without having it remove it in order to get the costume off [armor or skintight glove sleeve things with large wires coming out of the knuckles at attaching at the wrist] like with my two upcoming cosplays...)

I'd rather have a badge with a name on it that I can simply attach to my bag so it doesn't get in the way of my costumes. Plus, if I ever need to identify someone, I might be able to get their name off of their badge instead of just relying on a physical description, which is a plus. I do like the idea of the fan name being listed slightly larger and first, but still keeping the real name there. If my badge shows in photos, I'd rather have my screen name shown than my real name, but the real name should still be there.

OGIGA

#21
Quote from: Dany on November 12, 2011, 01:33:17 PM
Quote from: Jeimizu on November 12, 2011, 11:23:23 AM
Quote from: OGIGA on November 11, 2011, 04:50:55 PM
Quote from: Himeno on May 29, 2011, 10:29:36 PM
QuoteOops, I did mean "Badges not having the name does more harm than good."
How so? I'm fairly sure that any reason you can come up for this can be quickly ripped apart.
I'm rather curious about this as well. Can anyone elaborate about what kind of harm could be done if they were unnamed as opposed to named? What are the reasons that can be shared? Why can't some reasons be shared? Is there a secret contract about how badges must be?

...I'm gonna assume that it's so people can't pass the one badge around? And if you lose your badge it can be returned to you? And for quick identification of someone if they're causing a problem?

As well as the above, I think of information that differentiates official badges from badges that have been copied/altered/faked. There may be other reasons too, I'm sure.

I'm pretty indifferent to whether the name is on the badge or not...well, I would -prefer- that if we have names, that the name on my ID -not- be as prominent as it is on my badge. I would prefer that the 'big name" be the name that is usually listed as the "fan name", while the personal name is the smaller name, if it shows at all.
People pass badges around, named or unnamed, and I know this as an absolute fact. The regular (non-pre-reg) badges can be easily copied/faked at Kinkos (or wherever), unless you guys add an expensive-to-duplicate feature to it. Because of this, it's no good for using to identify people. And if the badge is authentic, you still can't tell if the badge-carrier is the badge-owner without another for of identification.

I will say that it's good for people who lose badges, because I know Fanime tries to find the badge's owner. That being said, it means less revenue, and possible reduction in whiny kids who can't/won't pay for replacing a lost badge.

The biggest "harm" about having people's real names on badges is that most medium- and high-profile cosplayers DO NOT WANT THEIR REAL IDENTITY REVEALED. As a result, they don't ever have their badge showing (or don't pay for one at all). This group is a minority, but is the highlight of Fanime (IMO).

There are all these hypotheses about why Fanime badges have real names, but can someone (maybe staff person) state the real reason? Or at least say why this is a secret? Or state that there really isn't a reason and real names on badges aren't an absolute must?

Quote from: Nina Star 9 on November 12, 2011, 10:10:32 PM
I also prefer badges with names as opposed to badges without names and a wristband. Wristbands are uncomfortable, unsightly in photos, and cannot be worn with certain costumes.
I agree. And for this reason, I don't pay SacAnime to screw up my cosplay(s).

Dany

Quote from: OGIGA on November 14, 2011, 10:54:44 AM
The biggest "harm" about having people's real names on badges is that most medium- and high-profile cosplayers DO NOT WANT THEIR REAL IDENTITY REVEALED. As a result, they don't ever have their badge showing (or don't pay for one at all). This group is a minority, but is the highlight of Fanime (IMO).

I don't know if it's as much a minority as it may seem to prefer that your "fan name" is on your badge over your legal name. I know plenty of people who feel uncomfortable with having any name other than a fan name showing on their badge, but they begrudgingly accept it because currently, That Is What It Is. Many of those are not even cosplayers. They see it as simply a personal security thing; if they wanted their legal names out there for all to see with only a glance, they'd just wear their driver's license/ID/passport on their neck and be done with it.

In fact, Fanime is, to my knowledge, the only fan convention I've been to that has legal names so prominent on their badges. And when I figured it out, I started putting a modified version of my legal name on the registration. It's close enough to where I can show my ID and prove that yes, I am me, I am not trying to dodge anything and yes that's my badge, but not so close that people can do a Google search and stalk me by merely glancing at my tummy.

(Paranoid? Yes, but I have darn good, personal reasons why I go this route.)
2012 Costumes (or so we hope!)
Ayukawa, Miime, Oscar, Yuria, D'Eon

renalcul

Quote from: Dany on November 14, 2011, 02:49:26 PM
In fact, Fanime is, to my knowledge, the only fan convention I've been to that has legal names so prominent on their badges. And when I figured it out, I started putting a modified version of my legal name on the registration. It's close enough to where I can show my ID and prove that yes, I am me, I am not trying to dodge anything and yes that's my badge, but not so close that people can do a Google search and stalk me by merely glancing at my tummy.

(Paranoid? Yes, but I have darn good, personal reasons why I go this route.)

The irony, of course, being that fan names are even easier to trace to an individual.

Dany

Quote from: renalcul on November 15, 2011, 04:22:06 AM
Quote from: Dany on November 14, 2011, 02:49:26 PM
In fact, Fanime is, to my knowledge, the only fan convention I've been to that has legal names so prominent on their badges. And when I figured it out, I started putting a modified version of my legal name on the registration. It's close enough to where I can show my ID and prove that yes, I am me, I am not trying to dodge anything and yes that's my badge, but not so close that people can do a Google search and stalk me by merely glancing at my tummy.

(Paranoid? Yes, but I have darn good, personal reasons why I go this route.)

The irony, of course, being that fan names are even easier to trace to an individual.

Depends on what you are tracing and what you attach to your "fan name" that comes up in a Google search. But point of the matter is that at least with an online persona name you can point them in the direction you want them to see, rather than what you don't. Plus, online handles, especially if they are more obscure, don't come up in one of those pesky "pay to see someone's personal info" websites.
2012 Costumes (or so we hope!)
Ayukawa, Miime, Oscar, Yuria, D'Eon

Nina Star 9

I'd rather someone see my fan name, since then they can find things like my cosplay.com account, where I post cosplay pics anyway. It's more anonymous than using a real name for all that, since they only see an online persona.

I keep my badge on my bag, though, so it's much harder to catch a glimpse of my name, and it doesn't show in pics. I think that the fan name should be the larger and easier to see name, though.

I don't buy a badge for every con I go to, but I buy a badge for Fanime every year because it is worth it to support this con and to get into the areas and events that require a badge. I won't name the con(s) I go to without a badge, though.  ;)


If someone doesn't want their real name to show, could they put masking tape or something over the real name portion of the badge, or would it get them in trouble? I'm not planning on doing this, but I'm curious if it were possible for people who didn't want their name to show.

Arkham

Quote from: OGIGA on November 14, 2011, 10:54:44 AM
The biggest "harm" about having people's real names on badges is that most medium- and high-profile cosplayers DO NOT WANT THEIR REAL IDENTITY REVEALED. As a result, they don't ever have their badge showing (or don't pay for one at all). This group is a minority, but is the highlight of Fanime (IMO).

Really? I thought they didn't have their badge showing because it screws up their cosplay...

If you don't want your badge showing, put it in your pocket.
Pull it out when you go through a door.
And then put it back in your pocket.
--Arkham : The Blackened Hatter

Charis

Quote from: Arkham on November 22, 2011, 03:44:52 PM
Quote from: OGIGA on November 14, 2011, 10:54:44 AM
The biggest "harm" about having people's real names on badges is that most medium- and high-profile cosplayers DO NOT WANT THEIR REAL IDENTITY REVEALED. As a result, they don't ever have their badge showing (or don't pay for one at all). This group is a minority, but is the highlight of Fanime (IMO).
Really? I thought they didn't have their badge showing because it screws up their cosplay...

A bit of column A, a bit of column B.  Personally, it's both -- I don't like showing my badge in cosplay photos because it looks out of place, but I also don't like the idea that someone can use it to find me IRL.  But I tend to carry mine looped into my bag, and I've never gotten a problem from Fanime about that.

I don't like the names being as big and obvious as they are, though I can see the argument for it as well -- and I just don't walk around with mine showing.
2012 Plans:
  • Gypsy Queen / Kaya Syokka (Trinity Blood)
  • Risai (Juuni Kokki/Twelve Kingdoms)
  • Shusui (Saiunkoku Monogatari)
  • others TBD

nurikowindchaser

Quote from: OGIGA on November 14, 2011, 10:54:44 AM
The biggest "harm" about having people's real names on badges is that most medium- and high-profile cosplayers DO NOT WANT THEIR REAL IDENTITY REVEALED. As a result, they don't ever have their badge showing (or don't pay for one at all). This group is a minority, but is the highlight of Fanime (IMO).

There are all these hypotheses about why Fanime badges have real names, but can someone (maybe staff person) state the real reason? Or at least say why this is a secret? Or state that there really isn't a reason and real names on badges aren't an absolute must?

A thousand times, THIS.  >.<  I have to exist in the professional world, one where my job could be in real jeopardy if by place of work decided that I was engaged in anything "untoward" and unfortunately, some people have a rather skewed vision of the fan world.  I almost didn't come last year because Fanime refused to honor my request that they not print my real name in huge-ass letters across the front of my badge, and I refuse to walk past a line of crazy religious protesters with my real name practically plastered to my forehead.  After many weeks of truly upsetting email conversations, they finally agreed to only print my first initial along with my last name, which I only agreed to because it made my badge exactly the same as my sister's... and given that we're twins, I found that funny.  And if I have to fight as hard this year for even that much consideration, then I'll have to make the difficult choice never to go to Fanime again.

I don't like the wrist bands, either... I loathe them utterly.  But I'd take them over my legal name being on display for everyone.  I do absolutely nothing in the fan-world under my real name, it would be useless for identifying me in any way other than in a way that could hurt me.

ewu

We are considering a design that will have the Fan Name equally or more predominantly displayed than the registered name of the member. But please note, that for many reasons, your badge will have your member name on it.

Here are some of those reasons: ease of identifying and returning lost badges to the members, minimal access for most of the staff to the member database to protect your personal information, ensuring that the badge we issue to you is correct when you register your membership....there are a number more that I will not go into.... basically there are lots of reasons why. I list these not to offer you a chance to individually address these issues (as there are a few more), but to help you understand why we are likely always going to have your registered name on the badge.

There has also been talk of placing masking tape on your badge. We have a saying among the staff and I think its time for us to share it with the members: "If you don't own it, don't tape it." The badges are FanimeCon property till we decide it isn't (the end of con) and so no taping. Note that if you do have any part of the badge obscured you will not be permitted to enter any convention programming and it may also be grounds for the forfeiture of your membership and confiscation of your badge.

Sorry guys, that's just the way it is....*ewu sadface panda*
Eric Wu
FanimeCon Chairman
FanimeCon Forums Moderator

ericATfanimeDOTcom

Dany

Quote from: ewu on December 19, 2011, 03:40:54 AM
We are considering a design that will have the Fan Name equally or more predominantly displayed than the registered name of the member. But please note, that for many reasons, your badge will have your member name on it.

I would GLADLY accept this, especially putting the fan name predominant, for two reasons.

- Security, sort of. I don't need to be completely hidden, especially from con staff (otherwise I'd just get off the internets already), but I do operate on discretion.  Having the "real name" smaller just makes it harder for just any nitwit to find out who you are.

- The convention IDs people by their "real" names, but fans tend to know each other by their social handles. It's hard to realize you're talking to "Buffy123" who you've conversed with on this forum (or many others) but are only meeting in person the first time, when all you are easily able to see without squinting is "Susan Smith". A fan-name predominant badge makes this easier.

This is a very common practice at many fan events too, so it's not like we're breaking any important traditions by making the change :)
2012 Costumes (or so we hope!)
Ayukawa, Miime, Oscar, Yuria, D'Eon

M

Quote from: Dany on December 19, 2011, 09:45:35 AM- The convention IDs people by their "real" names, but fans tend to know each other by their social handles. It's hard to realize you're talking to "Buffy123" who you've conversed with on this forum (or many others) but are only meeting in person the first time, when all you are easily able to see without squinting is "Susan Smith". A fan-name predominant badge makes this easier.
Just do what I did when I didn't know who ewu was. I just went around to every single member and went "ARE YOU EWU?!" Eventually, I found him. XD
FanimeCon Head of Marketing & Director of Communications (2008-Current)
(Former Fan Services Director, Registration Staff, & Volunteer)
Have questions (about almost anything)? Message me!

Dany

Quote from: MPLe on December 21, 2011, 11:27:17 PM
Quote from: Dany on December 19, 2011, 09:45:35 AM- The convention IDs people by their "real" names, but fans tend to know each other by their social handles. It's hard to realize you're talking to "Buffy123" who you've conversed with on this forum (or many others) but are only meeting in person the first time, when all you are easily able to see without squinting is "Susan Smith". A fan-name predominant badge makes this easier.
Just do what I did when I didn't know who ewu was. I just went around to every single member and went "ARE YOU EWU?!" Eventually, I found him. XD

I would probably do that if I were less socially uneasy in person XD! I am more than fine if people come to me, but I get all weird about approaching people in person, even if I've talked to them online.

<---Awkward cosnerd is awkward! XD
2012 Costumes (or so we hope!)
Ayukawa, Miime, Oscar, Yuria, D'Eon

ewu

Quote from: MPLe on December 21, 2011, 11:27:17 PM
Just do what I did when I didn't know who ewu was. I just went around to every single member and went "ARE YOU EWU?!" Eventually, I found him. XD

funny, I thought I was the one going all over con asking for miltykiss......everyone started trying to kiss me....until I met the real miltykiss:(
Eric Wu
FanimeCon Chairman
FanimeCon Forums Moderator

ericATfanimeDOTcom

nurikowindchaser

Quote from: ewu on December 19, 2011, 03:40:54 AM
There has also been talk of placing masking tape on your badge. We have a saying among the staff and I think its time for us to share it with the members: "If you don't own it, don't tape it." The badges are FanimeCon property till we decide it isn't (the end of con) and so no taping. Note that if you do have any part of the badge obscured you will not be permitted to enter any convention programming and it may also be grounds for the forfeiture of your membership and confiscation of your badge.

Sorry guys, that's just the way it is....*ewu sadface panda*

So the official stance of Fanime is that it doesn't care about the safety of their fan's identities, then?  -.-  That means that I am officially giving up on this con.  The least you could do is put people's real names on the BACK of the badge, like Yaoi-con does.  But since you've just said that anyone who tries to protect themselves will be feeding you money to be discriminated against, I'll just keep my money and go to another con instead.  It sucks that N. California has so few choices, but I can go to three Sac-Anime's for the price of one Fanime, so I guess it's not much of a loss.

M

Quote from: nurikowindchaser on December 23, 2011, 08:53:07 PMSo the official stance of Fanime is that it doesn't care about the safety of their fan's identities, then?  -.-  That means that I am officially giving up on this con.  The least you could do is put people's real names on the BACK of the badge, like Yaoi-con does.  But since you've just said that anyone who tries to protect themselves will be feeding you money to be discriminated against, I'll just keep my money and go to another con instead.  It sucks that N. California has so few choices, but I can go to three Sac-Anime's for the price of one Fanime, so I guess it's not much of a loss.
FanimeCon's stance is and never will be that we "[don't] care about the safety of our members".

We have heard the comments about removing the legal name completely, but there are several logistical and technical issues preventing this. As Eric said above, we are looking into new designs and ways to possibly lower the font size of the legal name, but as of right now, we have to keep the legal name on there.
FanimeCon Head of Marketing & Director of Communications (2008-Current)
(Former Fan Services Director, Registration Staff, & Volunteer)
Have questions (about almost anything)? Message me!

eHash

#36
there are always 2 sides to the story...

I mean..I've talked to countless parents who feel a little bit safer knowing that real names are identified so that a member can clearly identify a "bad person"...

OGIGA

Quote from: eHash on December 24, 2011, 07:36:33 PM
For the dances, it is important that we see real names easily when checking badges to get in.  Every year there are countless people that try and use other people's badges for entry.  As the head of the dance it is my responsibility to try and make the dance the safest place it can be with the limited resources I have been given.  Real names on badges is one of these.
You can't possibly be serious. I can understand if a (obvious) guy uses a badge with a (obvious) girl's name on it. This method is worth nothing if a guy uses another guy's badge (and vice-versa) and if the name on the badge is an uncommon/non-English name, like Jong-Il Kim.

But seriously, are you guys trying to treat badges like legal identifications documents or something? I'm still trying to figure out what "there are a number more [reasons] that I will not go into" means; are we supposed to join staff and figure out who to question in order to find out?

eHash

#38
removed.

M

Quote from: OGIGA on December 24, 2011, 09:34:35 PMYou can't possibly be serious. I can understand if a (obvious) guy uses a badge with a (obvious) girl's name on it. This method is worth nothing if a guy uses another guy's badge (and vice-versa) and if the name on the badge is an uncommon/non-English name, like Jong-Il Kim.

But seriously, are you guys trying to treat badges like legal identifications documents or something? I'm still trying to figure out what "there are a number more [reasons] that I will not go into" means; are we supposed to join staff and figure out who to question in order to find out?
Having only a nickname appear would mean that we'd have no way to determine if a member is using their own badge. For times when we need to do ID checks, this would require that someone (Person 1) relays the Badge ID to someone connected to our database (Person 2) -- all of this would also increase the delays on letting members into those events.

We aren't using the badges as a legal identifier, but it helps when we need to quickly identify if someone is using their badge or possibly someone else's.

I think what it comes down to is that we can't please everyone. Not having the legal name on the badge would cause tons of issues on the end of FanimeCon's staffers. It also makes me sad to think that some of our members will go as far as saying that we don't care about the safety of our members (I've had this conversation as far back as my first year as a Registration Manager).

Is lowering the font size of the legal name not good enough for a compromise? There's only so much we can do, but we're open to listening to ideas.
FanimeCon Head of Marketing & Director of Communications (2008-Current)
(Former Fan Services Director, Registration Staff, & Volunteer)
Have questions (about almost anything)? Message me!