FanimeCon 2018 Forums

Advanced search  

News:

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4

Author Topic: Lack of guests announcements Re: Guests I Want for Fanimecon 2015!!!!!!!!!!  (Read 10365 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

citrus

  • Maria-sama ga Post
  • Posts: 73
    • View Profile

Trust me, This is not a business model at all for a convention. I really don't know if the con will live by this model for 3 more years. using this model in radio business KILLS stations. I really am biting my tongue on this, and you all have big points, but I won't say anything until we have all the guest, and compare to the lists of guest requests for the last 2 years. And then I just will have a talk with the head of con, and talk this out.

Your the only staff member or at least a person who attends any of fanimecon tjimmy. And your the ONLY person I've seen so far is actually working hard for the con to get its act together. All the other staff members in this convention's forums either give the same generic answer, never get back to us and just ignore us or even when one tried to help, they never got back to us or truly assure that they're going to do their bests to get the guests we want or address our other concerns. So far your really the only person out of everyone I trust, because you know fanime has problems and your working hard out of everyone else as far as I'm concerned. If we had more people like you. Then maybe fanime would be back to its former 2011 glory.
Logged

Nina Star 9

  • Post in the Shell: SAC
  • Posts: 2087
    • View Profile

I also feel like all the guests suggestions aren't listened to. I know that staff says they read the suggestion thread, but I don't know if there's a failure in actually obtaining guests people want, or if there's a failure in staff reaching out to guests people want. Other, smaller cons have bigger guests than Fanime. I know that isn't really the main draw of Fanime at this point, but we can do better than this. And really, with the poor guest choices and the late announcements (not to mention other areas where the con is poorly run), what is the focus of the con anymore besides a giant party? I mean, the similarly sized Anime Boston got freaking Yoko Shimomura this year. What I would have given to see her. But I have a feeling that even if I suggested someone like that, it wouldn't happen.

Trust me, This is not a business model at all for a convention. I really don't know if the con will live by this model for 3 more years. using this model in radio business KILLS stations. I really am biting my tongue on this, and you all have big points, but I won't say anything until we have all the guest, and compare to the lists of guest requests for the last 2 years. And then I just will have a talk with the head of con, and talk this out.
Not, it isn't. I think that at this point, the con is surviving off of the fact that it was already large before it started to really go downhill. I think it also survives off of being the only larger con in the region (though SacAnime is slowly catching up, but still hasn't shaken its small con reputation), and one of the better cons to wear and see cosplay (though, as I've said before, I don't do Masquerades so I can't comment on that, though I've heard stories about how that has gone the past couple of years).

With how the con has been going, I've been giving it 5 years before it implodes, so I guess I'm a little more generous than you are. I think that once people from afar decide that it's not worth travelling to, and once people who are local decide to mostly ghost the con instead of buying for badges, the con will collapse. It may still gain mass, but might not gain enough money to keep running. Of course, I'm not privy to the budget information, but I know that this model is not sustainable if they want people to keep coming and paying for badges. The con's reputation is only getting worse, and I think it'll gain mass unless something catastrophic happens, but may not gain money.

I'm curious about your comment on the guest list for this year and comparing it to the previous two years (once everything is announced). I'm wondering if it compares favorably to the past two years (and everyone will be pleasantly surprised, if upset at the late announcements), or if the guest list is significantly lower in quality than the previous two years? Your comment can be read either way. I know you can't really answer that, so I guess I'l wait until it's all released.

Though, if there are big guests in the works, just waiting to be announced, I still don't see why the con would announce smaller-name guests first. It seems like, especially after waiting so long, the con would want to announce the biggest draws first, and then announce guests that are just padding to an already solid lineup later? It doesn't make sense to me, especially if the ink is already dry, as it not only should be, but you have said in other threads. I guess it's just a game of waiting and seeing at this point.

(I'm really glad you are here giving a smuch insider info as you can. :] We all appreciate you working so hard for the con and for the fans)
Logged

Sunara Ishi

  • Onegai Post
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 3013
    • View Profile

I also feel like all the guests suggestions aren't listened to. I know that staff says they read the suggestion thread, but I don't know if there's a failure in actually obtaining guests people want, or if there's a failure in staff reaching out to guests people want.
This is why I stopped posting in your thread so many years ago.... it started to feel useless. And it seems like less and less people post every year. I thought at first it was because of all the old fanime forum regulars leaving the boards for other things but it is more than that.

With how the con has been going, I've been giving it 5 years before it implodes, so I guess I'm a little more generous than you are. I think that once people from afar decide that it's not worth travelling to, and once people who are local decide to mostly ghost the con instead of buying for badges, the con will collapse. It may still gain mass, but might not gain enough money to keep running. Of course, I'm not privy to the budget information, but I know that this model is not sustainable if they want people to keep coming and paying for badges. The con's reputation is only getting worse, and I think it'll gain mass unless something catastrophic happens, but may not gain money.
This has already been happening. I've witnessed it with my friends. Some have already decided fanime is just a place to hang out with friends or just for cosplay. And they don't think its worth paying for a badge. Those that stuck around mostly joined staff or artist alley. I know they all try their best and I'm sure there is quite a few stuck cogs. But it isn't their areas that are the problem. (Yes, I've thought about joining staff but its useless at this point. )
And heaven's forbid if they made the con center badge only... I bet the cosplayers and crowds would drop in half. Perhaps they are reluctant to release numbers because it would be obvious that the con doesn't have as many attendees as it appears?

I've been actually thinking about SacAnime because it is now closer to me. Fanime used to be my home con but unless the guests attract me in future years, I may only come to San Jose just to hang out with friends but not necessarily for the con. If I come down for a week, it has to be worth it.
Logged
るう~
o(≧∀≦)O
"Doesn't break even when run over by a tank! The most durable ballpoint pen in world!"-Nebula

Dracil

  • Maria-sama ga Post
  • Posts: 150
    • View Profile

Reading some comments on Facebook posts, there seems to be a general sentiment that 2012 was the year everything started to fall apart in terms of guest announcements.  Turns out that's also the year that Clockwork Alchemy got started.  Perhaps it's time to cut this unrelated con out and focus on Fanime.

I'd be very curious what the guest budgets were prior to 2012 and afterwards.
Logged

citrus

  • Maria-sama ga Post
  • Posts: 73
    • View Profile

Reading some comments on Facebook posts, there seems to be a general sentiment that 2012 was the year everything started to fall apart in terms of guest announcements.  Turns out that's also the year that Clockwork Alchemy got started. Perhaps it's time to cut this unrelated con out and focus on Fanime.

I'd be very curious what the guest budgets were prior to 2012 and afterwards.
Now that you mention it. Not only was that the year when Clockwork Alchemy started and became a branch of fanime. It was also the year I heard from someone at the AX say that the head of fanimecon switched during 2012. Perhaps the reason why fanime deteriorated and had a list of crappy guests for the past previous years is because the head that ran for 2 years loves his precious steampunk convention more then he does with anime... It's possible that this is mostly his fault. However from that one person at the AX forums said switched to animazement after 2013, figuring 2012 was just an off year. But unfortunately that person was wrong and the con just get worst when it comes to getting guests and overall how organized the convention is. However, according to what this person said. The head that ran for 2012-14 that ruined fanime and turned it into a crappy con left and now that there is a brand new head and I quote from that person "I know the knew head and his is an all around terrific guy! If it's anyone who can get back to fanime's 2011 glory its him!" I think I did recall that somewhere reading the head left and the new guy is up. But from what I'm seeing... NOTHING'S CHANGED! If there really is a new head he's certainly doing a bad job as the previous guy!

A lot of us have been complaining nonstop for the past few years and months, yet for some reason the staff has done NOTHING and I think has gotten even worse at their jobs as each year passes by. And to those that suggest to us that joining the staff we could make a difference I feel is just absolute bull. The masquerade head? Yeah he tried using that method and he said to suggests a couple of guests and he'll do his bests to find people he knows to get the guests we want. And you know what? After that the guy has not commented or what I know of made any progress

I'll say it again tjimmy is the ONLY staff member I know who I feel like is trying hard and is doing the best he can to give us a better experience. Everybody else and even the admin? Yeah your not doing a very good job showing us that your making improvement or progress toward the convention. By now they should have addressed our concerns but HASN'T at all. And I'm sure all of you know Fanimecon has SERIOUS and unacceptable issues! Not everything is all cookies n cream. I'm aware that some attendees who go to fanimecon has different taste and standards are satisfied with what fanimecon has to offer. But to those of us that are complaining are clearly not happy. I've given this con 3 chances to fix things but there has been barely any substantial improvement.

There are only 2 things that actually HAS improved and that is the line to get your badge and the size of the panel rooms. That's it! No matter how short the line is, they've got to back it up with good guests and good programming! I've endured AX's lines, and waited a couple of hours just to get into certain panels! But do you know what the difference is? IT'S WORTH IT! Even if I had to pay way more money for traveling expenses and more money at the con I'm at least getting my money's worth! For someone that lives in Sacramento my local convention Sacanime has shown DRASTIC improvement towards everything that there just simply doesn't even seem any comparison towards fanime's problems. And that's the thing while not Sacanime is perfect and there are some things that could improve the complaints that I do have are so minimum that I always end up having a phenomenal experience. With how things are going so far I wouldn't be surprised that people would start going to Sacanime instead of fanimecon in the future. If my local con can start offering experience's like fanime 2011 then I'll be happy to cross off fanimecon permanently off my list!
Logged

bahamutknightzero

  • Around 600 posts
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 649
    • View Profile

Lets ask an honest question here

How many people actually come for the guests?
Logged

Imperial

  • Defender of the Cosplayer
  • Inu-Posta
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 299
  • Cosplay Gatherings Head 2016-?
    • View Profile

So, something needs to be said on the matter of clockwork. It is a seperate entity as of 2 years ago, only thing they share is relations set by the last head of con. Head of con is a 3 year position, so the idea of this con is that we want to be friends, not enemies kind of status. Clockwork isn't bad imo, I mean they got guests I have wanted to see in the past (Steam powered Giraffe was INSANE).

back to bahamut, I come for the cosplay, stay for the guests. but then again, its kinda my job in department.
Logged

cutiebunny

  • Maria-sama ga Post
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 125
    • View Profile

How many people actually come for the guests?

I do, or did, until I stopped coming to Fanime after 2012.  That's why I pay almost a grand to travel across the US for my flight/hotel room/food and attend Animazement, and I've done this since 2013.  I go to cons solely for Japanese guests.  If Fanime can't deliver, I'll go elsewhere.

I really am biting my tongue on this, and you all have big points, but I won't say anything until we have all the guest, and compare to the lists of guest requests for the last 2 years. And then I just will have a talk with the head of con, and talk this out.

Gonna be honest here and say that this does not read well nor does not bode well for Fanime attendees.  You're basically just telling me that, knowing the full 2015 guest list due to staff privileges, what hasn't been announced is not what the people posting here want.  Which means that concerned posters, such as citrus, are going to be very, very upset.

I'm willing to bet money that lack of quality guests are being decided solely by those controlling the purse strings.  Why spend money on big name acts if the same amount of people, more or less, or going to attend anyways?  The investors that run the con know that you have two options; Attend Fanime or go elsewhere.  As going elsewhere entails a significant investment, either due to the cost of flying there or time to drive/take a train to NC, this is not a reality for the majority of Fanime attendees.
Logged

Imperial

  • Defender of the Cosplayer
  • Inu-Posta
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 299
  • Cosplay Gatherings Head 2016-?
    • View Profile



I really am biting my tongue on this, and you all have big points, but I won't say anything until we have all the guest, and compare to the lists of guest requests for the last 2 years. And then I just will have a talk with the head of con, and talk this out.

Gonna be honest here and say that this does not read well nor does not bode well for Fanime attendees.  You're basically just telling me that, knowing the full 2015 guest list due to staff privileges, what hasn't been announced is not what the people posting here want.  Which means that concerned posters, such as citrus, are going to be very, very upset.

I'm willing to bet money that lack of quality guests are being decided solely by those controlling the purse strings.  Why spend money on big name acts if the same amount of people, more or less, or going to attend anyways?  The investors that run the con know that you have two options; Attend Fanime or go elsewhere.  As going elsewhere entails a significant investment, either due to the cost of flying there or time to drive/take a train to NC, this is not a reality for the majority of Fanime attendees.

I'm biting my tongue in the matter of me wanting to yell off them for not announcing. I only know from attending the meetings that the ink is dry on the paper, as they announced that at said meeting. I have been telling you all I know from the meetings and poking, but not so much that its me just leaking everything with what info has come out. I am on your side, I just really dont know anything other than what I have told already.
Logged

cutiebunny

  • Maria-sama ga Post
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 125
    • View Profile

^ I'm not upset with you, tj.  I'm actually not upset at all.  My solution to Fanime's lackluster performance is to simply go to Animazement. 

If anything, I, and others, appreciate your honesty in this.  You could simply ignore us like almost every other Fanime staffer.
Logged

echoshadow

  • *insert cool phrase here*
  • Steel Angel Post
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 540
  • So much anime so little time.
    • View Profile

Lets ask an honest question here

How many people actually come for the guests?

Honestly Fanime has never been known to be able to bring to A list guests or B list. Not since Flow stop coming, that's when everything kind of starting going down hill.
Logged
Not your typical anime junkie.
MAL:Echoshadow's Anime List

Dracil

  • Maria-sama ga Post
  • Posts: 150
    • View Profile

Lets ask an honest question here

How many people actually come for the guests?

What guests? I basically only go to Fanime now because my friends perform there, and as I've said, I don't even need a badge for that.

But I *do* fly around the country specifically for guests.  It's the *only* reason I would spend that much money to travel to a non-local con.  Over the past year I've gone to Otakon, Otakon Vegas/Lantis Festival, Sakuracon, Anime Expo, Miku Expo (kinda), J-Pop Summit + Slim's, Idol Matsuri for Japanese guests.  Same with my group of older friends.  They don't come to Fanime anymore because it's not local to them and doesn't have guests they want to see (at least ever since Momoi stopped coming).
Logged

Dracil

  • Maria-sama ga Post
  • Posts: 150
    • View Profile

So, something needs to be said on the matter of clockwork. It is a seperate entity as of 2 years ago, only thing they share is relations set by the last head of con. Head of con is a 3 year position, so the idea of this con is that we want to be friends, not enemies kind of status. Clockwork isn't bad imo, I mean they got guests I have wanted to see in the past (Steam powered Giraffe was INSANE).

back to bahamut, I come for the cosplay, stay for the guests. but then again, its kinda my job in department.

Relations, as in guest relations?  That's actually damn huge then and exactly fits in with Clockwork Alchemy being to blame for Fanime guest announcements being so late.  Look at how early Clockwork Alchemy gets their guests.  Look at how late Fanime guests get their guests.

Or if you just mean relations as in it's related to Fanimecon, I've seen that claim, and I'm suspicious of it because there are other explicitly shared resources like hotel rooms (the con's at a point where the lack of hotel rooms is now a significant constraint towards it growing any bigger) and badges (and obviously the money from the badges).  That just makes me want to see the Fanime guest budget before and after 2012 (or actually even total budget).  Because of the way the funds from badges are shared, it's ripe for financial gymnastics to make the numbers work out the way the people in charge want it, to put it lightly (because really, how are you guys divvying up the badge money?  With the way Fanime continues to grow in attendance if any of the numbers went down that's pretty much a red flag)

Alternatively, did staff quit, especially guest relations staff?  That's another biggie that can screw up a cons' guests.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 11:07:44 PM by Dracil »
Logged

FanFicGuru

  • Post in the Shell: SAC
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1185
  • 私は物をI愛保護する - I will protect the ones I love.
    • View Profile

Lets ask an honest question here

How many people actually come for the guests?

Honestly Fanime has never been known to be able to bring to A list guests or B list. Not since Flow stop coming, that's when everything kind of starting going down hill.

I know that Anime Expo is a bit further out but just throwing it out there that their guest page only has 1 person on it right now.

Is it exciting when Fanime can bring big guests (like the Gurren Lagaan staff?) Absolutely. But from a strictly logistical standpoint, you have a convention of 25,000+ people, and a guest panel room might hold...a few hundred? And these people wait in line for hours to make sure they have a seat, lessening their involvement in the overall convention. I think that a lot of people go to Fanime for reasons besides the guests because they love the arcade, or the gaming hall, or artist alley, or wandering around the dealers hall, or doing cosplay meetups, or masquerade, or AMV competition, or swap meet, or any one of the numerous activities going on at any moment during the 24-hour Fanime cycle.

I hope that we'll see some exciting guests this year, but regardless I know that thousands of people will have an amazing Con for many other reasons.
Logged
Fanime attendee since 2004
Swap meet staff - 2014
Swap meet co-chair - 2015

cutiebunny

  • Maria-sama ga Post
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 125
    • View Profile

I know that Anime Expo is a bit further out but just throwing it out there that their guest page only has 1 person on it right now.

Quality over quantity.  Ishiwatari is a great guest.  Fanime had him and Toshimichi Mori in 2010.  With FLOW, that was a great year. What I like about Ishiwatari is that he enjoys being with his fans.  Same thing with Mori.


Quote
Is it exciting when Fanime can bring big guests (like the Gurren Lagaan staff?) Absolutely. But from a strictly logistical standpoint, you have a convention of 25,000+ people, and a guest panel room might hold...a few hundred? And these people wait in line for hours to make sure they have a seat, lessening their involvement in the overall convention.

But that's their choice, right?  Some people, such as myself, spend the money to attend FanimeCon solely for the guests.  The other things you mentioned, such as Swap Meets or Artist Alley, are things I can find closer to home at many other cons without paying the price tag.  These things do not make Fanime stand out, especially not when other cons such as SacAnime, Japan Expo USA and YaoiCon all have the same activities, happen in roughly the same vicinity (NorCal) and (sometimes) cost less.  I'm not paying $$$ to experience the same thing I can experience at smaller, often better run, conventions.
Logged

Dracil

  • Maria-sama ga Post
  • Posts: 150
    • View Profile

Yep, those things are probably more exciting to people who only go to maybe one major con a year.  But if we're attending 6+ cons, at least 3 of them major ones, it really holds no value.  And cosplays are probably even less interesting here simply because there are so many events here, from all the Japantown stuff to the (almost free) seasonal NorCal cosplay gatherings.
Logged

FanFicGuru

  • Post in the Shell: SAC
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1185
  • 私は物をI愛保護する - I will protect the ones I love.
    • View Profile

Yep, those things are probably more exciting to people who only go to maybe one major con a year.  But if we're attending 6+ cons, at least 3 of them major ones, it really holds no value.  And cosplays are probably even less interesting here simply because there are so many events here, from all the Japantown stuff to the (almost free) seasonal NorCal cosplay gatherings.

I hear what you're saying, but I think that people who can attend 6+ cons a year are more rare. I would be interested in a demographic breakdown of Fanime attendees. It might  be because I'm getting older, but it seems like the majority of attendees are teenagers who are local and don't really have the option of flying around the country to see guests. Sure they pitch in some money with friends to get a hotel at the con, but they wouldn't necessarily have the resources that older fans do in terms of being able to go to conventions in other states solely for their guests.

With that in mind: If A) Fanime hasn't had a very "strong" guest lineup for the last few years, and yet B) they continue to see increased attendance and economic impact, maybe it makes sense that other elements of the convention are focused on more than guests.

Again, I hope that we do see some exciting guests this year, and honestly we'll wait and see who they announce!
Logged
Fanime attendee since 2004
Swap meet staff - 2014
Swap meet co-chair - 2015

Dracil

  • Maria-sama ga Post
  • Posts: 150
    • View Profile

Well, it's basically like saying it's ok for a semi-fancy restaurant to slowly turn into a McDonald's.  They makes oodles of money with lots of customers, but...

It's a general sentiment we're seeing with California cons which is why a lot of us are moving away from them unless they're local.
Logged

cutiebunny

  • Maria-sama ga Post
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 125
    • View Profile

AX just announced Ryushiki07.  So, about that point you were trying to make when comparing AX's guest list to Fanime's list...

I hear what you're saying, but I think that people who can attend 6+ cons a year are more rare.

I'm one of them.  In the past year, from April 2014-2015, I have attended: Animazement, AX, Japan Expo USA, YaoiCon, PMX, SacAnime Winter, Otakon Vegas/LANTIS and SakuraCon.  The problem with your statement is that you're not acknowledging the income potential of these attendees.  These are the people that just dropped 40K on charity auction items at SakuraCon this year.  They are the ones that travel across the US and internationally just to see a particular guest.  They drop insane amounts of cash on artwork, signed items, etc.  What that means is that, if these same attendees all got together and pitched their funds, just imagine the kind of convention they could put on...I'd say it would be similar to AM2 2011 in terms of guests and caliber of said guests.

This is something that I've never understood.  While small, you have a good portion of possible attendee population who are willing and able to drop $$$ to bring over some fantastic guests.  If someone from a con approached these attendees with a sales pitch, I'd imagine that these same attendees would willingly drop thousands of dollars to fly over guests, especially if you could work something out where the attendees will receive some kind of sweet incentive for their donation...like dining with the guest, etc.

And before I see a "That's elitist and it's unfair to the rest of the attendees", let me remind you that the current trend with conventions and dealers is that they're being offered free booths, panels and all sorts of cushy bonuses to bring over guests.  A couple of conventions have done this this year and I'd imagine, as it costs little for the convention to engage in this arrangement, more and more cons will be moving towards this model.

Except Fanime, which seems to be content with its "Hang out with your friends" con mentality.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 06:49:35 PM by cutiebunny »
Logged

FanFicGuru

  • Post in the Shell: SAC
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1185
  • 私は物をI愛保護する - I will protect the ones I love.
    • View Profile

AX just announced Ryushiki07.  So, about that point you were trying to make when comparing AX's guest list to Fanime's list...

I hear what you're saying, but I think that people who can attend 6+ cons a year are more rare.

I'm one of them.  In the past year, from April 2014-2015, I have attended: Animazement, AX, Japan Expo USA, YaoiCon, PMX, SacAnime Winter, Otakon Vegas/LANTIS and SakuraCon.  The problem with your statement is that you're not acknowledging the income potential of these attendees.  These are the people that just dropped 40K on charity auction items at SakuraCon this year.  They are the ones that travel across the US and internationally just to see a particular guest.  They drop insane amounts of cash on artwork, signed items, etc.  What that means is that, if these same attendees all got together and pitched their funds, just imagine the kind of convention they could put on...I'd say it would be similar to AM2 2011 in terms of guests and caliber of said guests.

This is something that I've never understood.  While small, you have a good portion of possible attendee population who are willing and able to drop $$$ to bring over some fantastic guests.  If someone from a con approached these attendees with a sales pitch, I'd imagine that these same attendees would willingly drop thousands of dollars to fly over guests, especially if you could work something out where the attendees will receive some kind of sweet incentive for their donation...like dining with the guest, etc.

And before I see a "That's elitist and it's unfair to the rest of the attendees", let me remind you that the current trend with conventions and dealers is that they're being offered free booths, panels and all sorts of cushy bonuses to bring over guests.  A couple of conventions have done this this year and I'd imagine, as it costs little for the convention to engage in this arrangement, more and more cons will be moving towards this model.

Except Fanime, which seems to be content with its "Hang out with your friends" con mentality.

I can understand the appeal, but something about that model just doesn't sit right with me. Essentially, conventions would court high-roller anime fans hoping that they could bring over guests in exchange for whatever demands said high-roller has in exchange? I can just imagine the stipulations getting more and more ridiculous, or conventions getting desperate chasing after "whales" to please please come to their convention and/or pay for guests to come out.

For me, the thing that's made Fanime unique is that "hang out with your friends" feeling of the con. I think that's part of the reason the motto for quite some time has been "By fans, for fans". It's not corporate sponsored, they don't have a huge non-profit supporting them...they bring out the guests they can and host a myriad of other events over the weekend that draw tens of thousands of fans from around the bay area and the country as well.

Again, it would be awesome if we get a strong guest lineup. I had the privilege of going to the Yamaga party when the gurren lagaan staff came out and that was a lot of fun. But last year was probably one of the most memorable cons for me in the last 10 years and I didn't see a single guest. I just feel like everyone's con is different. For those who really relish/enjoy the guest element I hope they enjoy the lineup this year.

If you need me I'll be at the swap meet  ;D
Logged
Fanime attendee since 2004
Swap meet staff - 2014
Swap meet co-chair - 2015
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
 

Page created in 0.08 seconds with 24 queries.