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Author Topic: SUGGESTION: NEVER CHARGE FOR THE BIG EVENTS  (Read 3374 times)

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MyAlterEg0

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SUGGESTION: NEVER CHARGE FOR THE BIG EVENTS
« on: March 16, 2016, 05:51:24 PM »

I see lots of people post that they wouldn't mind paying extra money for event tickets if a bigger guest was acquired through it, but that's what's wrong with a lot of the other conventions these days. 

I don't want to see any of my badge/membership fee go to that event if I have to wait in line (and possibly not get a ticket) for an opportunity to buy a ticket to something I've already paid into.  It's become so common at AX and other conventions that people think it's ok.  Especially when a "sponsor" has brought in a big guest, and then you as an attendee have an opportunity to help pay them back (in essence paying them to advertise to you) instead of scratching your head asking "why did any of my money go to it if I am asked to pay more for it?" 

I can understand the basic badge cost helps pay for all the convention basic events and activities.  One of the things I love about FanimeCon is the fact that I can choose whether or not I wait in line to attend or participate in any of these options.  I think it's wrong to have people pay for an opportunity (like a concert) that only those who can afford to pay extra money for the ticket can go to.
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Angelx624

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Re: SUGGESTION: NEVER CHARGE FOR THE BIG EVENTS
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2016, 07:20:10 PM »

I agree. You pay for the badge, and that's expensive enough. Why pay more??
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Barnes

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Re: SUGGESTION: NEVER CHARGE FOR THE BIG EVENTS
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2016, 02:05:10 PM »

Iirc, there is (at least) one event at Fanime that requires a separate (purchased) ticket. Something like a dinner with a Guest of Honor. I'm not 100% sure.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
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TC_X0_Lt_0X

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Re: SUGGESTION: NEVER CHARGE FOR THE BIG EVENTS
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2016, 02:46:22 PM »

I can understand the desire for the sake of simplicity and such.
But at the same time I dont see a huge issue with extra ticket costs for premium events, especially if those events require the extra cash to be pulled off. At that point I think it depends more on how much more the extra ticket/badge upgrade would cost, and what your getting for it. It makes sense for something like Music fest of course, but then again Fanime has managed to secure pretty decent guests without adding a price. Though if adding a charge would help to secure bigger guests more easily then I think many attendees wouldnt have too much of an issue with it, especially if it is optional.

Either way I dont think I care very much. I don't really care about the guest line up at all, besides maybe music guests, though I can shrug off that as well
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GokuMew2

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Re: SUGGESTION: NEVER CHARGE FOR THE BIG EVENTS
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2016, 10:02:32 PM »

Iirc, there is (at least) one event at Fanime that requires a separate (purchased) ticket. Something like a dinner with a Guest of Honor. I'm not 100% sure.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
The Meet the Guests reception, while a ticketed event, has always been free. It is also more like a brunch/light lunch event, not a dinner.
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cutiebunny

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Re: SUGGESTION: NEVER CHARGE FOR THE BIG EVENTS
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2016, 01:29:38 AM »

I disagree.  I would pay if Fanime could get the guests.

I mean, technically I already am.  I'm paying to attend Animazement in Raleigh because Fanime can't get any decent animation guests. To fly there, that's a good $600.  Splitting hotels, I'm looking at a good $800+ before I even step in the door at Animazement.

Even if Fanime charged $800 for a non-corporately sponsored event featuring guests that interested me, I would pay it  because I'd save time not going to AZ.


Especially when a "sponsor" has brought in a big guest, and then you as an attendee have an opportunity to help pay them back (in essence paying them to advertise to you) instead of scratching your head asking "why did any of my money go to it if I am asked to pay more for it?" 

I agree with this.  Aniplex is a shady company and I would never buy anything released under their logo.  The things that I've seen them do would make anyone blush.  But in regards to Aniplex and AX charging for a live SUSHIO tracing, that's just in poor taste considering how much money both AX and Aniplex are making.
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Barnes

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Re: SUGGESTION: NEVER CHARGE FOR THE BIG EVENTS
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2016, 01:12:49 AM »

Iirc, there is (at least) one event at Fanime that requires a separate (purchased) ticket. Something like a dinner with a Guest of Honor. I'm not 100% sure.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
The Meet the Guests reception, while a ticketed event, has always been free. It is also more like a brunch/light lunch event, not a dinner.

Thanks for the clarification.
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Imper1um

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Re: SUGGESTION: NEVER CHARGE FOR THE BIG EVENTS
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2016, 11:29:43 AM »

As someone who helps run a convention, I can tell you that some events are separate for a number of reasons.

1. "Peacemealing:" In order to keep ticket prices down, and make it so you can "peacemeal" your experience, the budget for an event can be left off of the pricing of the ticket. For example, if they expect that only 5% of attendees will attend event A, and the event expects that it would cost $5 per person, rather than raising the price of the ticket by $5 for everyone (meaning that 95% of attendees would get a price increase for something they don't care for), they just make it a separate cost.

2. Not Convention Sponsored: The event isn't considered as part of the cost because the sponsor is not the convention itself. This can happen if an outside source chooses to take on the entire event, especially if there's something like catering involved, or bringing in a guest just for that event (such as a one-event DJ). Outside sponsors can be quite complicated, and I'm not going to bore you with the minutia of details involved in paying outside sources and Per Diems and such, but one-event things can be difficult to justify, also because of the Peacemealing. It also puts the convention on the hook for a set amount of money before the convention starts. This isn't so much greed as ease of use. Quite frequently, pass prices go right into the Convention Bank Account, and paying another group a large amount isn't too difficult, but it can be easier for the convention to setup another account that the funds go right into the bank account of the sponsor.

3. Expenses exceed the viability of expanding the price for everyone: This can be complicated. See, ticket prices usually go to things that happen throughout the weekend, including paying Staff, hotel rooms for Staff and Guests, food for Staff, Guests, and Volunteers, equipment rental, space rental, guest Per Diems, electricity, appearance fees, etc. If there's a major event, you'd think it would be included in the ticket price, right? Well, this is where it gets complicated. This is a variant on #1 Peacemealing, as an event that is attended by more than a minor percentage (roughly 20-40% of the attendee base), but the price may be more expensive than just putting it out there, like if the event costs $10 or more. Something that ends up eating through 20% of the ticket price can be really hard to justify running off of ticket prices. So, rather than raising prices, you get the money by making it optional.

4. Reducing demand by increasing price: Space costs money. If an event is normally attended by 50% or more attendees, you need the space to be able to do it. However, if an event hits the 20-40k mark, you have to consider a few variables:
 A. People need space, especially if its a dancing event.
 B. Acoustics are a very exact science. I used to be sound engineer, and setting up sound systems can be *very* difficult. There's something that I call "critical mass," that, when an event reaches a certain size, unless the event is outside, trying to get the sound to large room can be *really* difficult, not to mention that the price on equipment that can reach that amount of people moves on a logarithmic scale.
 C. The event is a stage event, and it hasn't reached to the point in which it can be filmed and rebroadcast onto the screens.

So, in order to solve this issue, you make the event cost money. This means that some people cannot go, which is the point. Plus, you can raise the quality of the event, because you're charging above the normal ticket prices. You're not going to just sit on the money, you're going to reinvest the money you get from ticket sales into the event and other things that help around the convention.

Hopefully this helps!
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MyAlterEg0

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Re: SUGGESTION: NEVER CHARGE FOR THE BIG EVENTS
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2016, 08:15:51 PM »

You unintentionally proved all my points.

In the basics of convention financing, you have upfront costs and deferred costs.
Things like facilities have an upfront deposit and currently, artists require 50 to 100% payment prior to the event.
Meaning the PreCon money you have needs to cover these things and recapture methods like ticket sales cover the deferred costs.
How much of your badge money goes to those events that you'd have to spend extra money for rather than those you can attend? 

This unfortunately demonstrates that you need to steal from Peter to pay Paul so that Paul can earn you enough to cover Peter.

Let's take AX's awful financial dispostion of "Spend now, Pray Later (that the ticketed events will get us some money)", isn't the point that should be made actually: "you are spending beyond your means, let's steal from the general con money, leverage off of it, and increase the money we had to spend"... Let's look at this..at AX, staff rooms and meals are free (fanime does not cover this for their staff).

As someone in both the trade show and entertainment industry I agree with every one of your reasons, but point out that those are the same reasons I feel that it is wrong.

(1) Peacemealing: if say 10% of money went to the event I could freely attend to and say 5% went to the bigger event sure, I understand the overall return on the marketing aspect of a big artist.  However if 60%+ of the money goes to special attractions (like at AX) and less than half of the money I put in goes to events I get to attend without spending more money, I feel cheated.
(2) Not convention Sponsored: if it's not part of the con, it's not part of the con, however you go on to talk about using sponsors.  In that case let's pick something like Crunchyroll and Porter Robinson with production costs that had to exceed $150k.  How much did crunchyroll put down vs ax in terms of reserving the venue and when tickets sales didn't cover the cost, who ate it?  Even if crunchyroll did (now I know why I decided not to continue my subscription), what about the other sponsored ticketed events.  If an event doesn't sell enough to cover costs, who pays for it?
(3) Expenses exceed the viability of expanding the price for everyone: I read this 1 of 2 ways...#1 is you are taking a portion of my money...gambling (not investing) it on an artist increasing revenue in order to pay things that benefit you and your staff rather than the attendees...or #2 you are taking my money....gambling it on an artist for a return to cover con expenses...(not my AX Finance criticism).
(4) Reducing demand by increasing price: Great so you're taxing me so that people with more money can feel elite.  Honestly, that's crap.

Perhaps I am out of touch and people are that childish and shallow that they'd rather be like AX in this conversation:
"Fanime was great, I saw Back-On"
"AX was better they had wagaki band, porter robinson, Momoro CloverZ, and KISS!"
"Did you see them?"
"No i couldn't afford the tickets, but ax was better because they were there!"
"... {FP} I heard Gene only stuck his tongue out at the attendees..."


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