why do most people think that anime or animation in general is just for kids?!

[red_thestrals]

is it just the people i know? coz most of em really think that its really childish... i know all the people here in this forum loves anime (we wouldnt be here if we dont ryt?).

but seriously... im pretty sure that a lot of animes arent really meant for kids... there 's probably more violence, drama and more serious stuff than most of the shows they watch... even the mangas...  arent they all kinda the same anyway, the sitcoms, dramas, reality shows, anime, books, mangas.... we all get hooked in the story, no matter what genre it is, its just in a different form.... its animated or drawn (for manga).

and the people who who makes/creates/draws the anime or manga are full grown adults too... and its not like we watch it in PBS Sprout or sumthing...  oh and who cares if i'll be spendin a lot in Fanime? its my money, i worked hard for it!

*sigh* just getting dramatic here..

[PyronIkari]

Because it's how western animation was brought up.

Those that believe it, are usually in their late 30's to 40's or have parents that are rather conservative.

It's nothing new, and it's changing.

But here's the thing.

Most of it IS for kids. Well, ages 3-16 anyways. All the adult themed series are more for fetishist and the such(which is why they get like air times of 11pm or later).

Let's take the more popular ones. Bleach, Death Note, Inu Yasha, and the such. All of them are for ages 8-16. The target audience of the majority of cartoons and comics are for young teens. You can name virtually any comercialized series(as in, obviously not for adults because they're porn or fetish bait) and they're for young teens.

Hell, even some of the pornographic ones, are aimed towards teenagers. Love Junkies for example, was published by Young Champion. Which is for "young adults". As in... it's not an 18+ comic but has comics that show pretty much everything. Sure there's no shot of a direct vagina, or a penis, but plenty of breasts and sex in comic form. And a lot of scantilly clad real women in spreads, but it's AIMED for 16-18 year olds.

So, technically they are right. Comics and cartoons ARE aimed towards children and teenagers. It just doesn't mean that they're the only ones that can get enjoyment out of them. It's just that different countries have different standards as to what is for kids or not. Hokuto no Ken was aimed towards young teenagers, and in the US, that would be an 18+ cartoon due to violence, and partial nudity. Ranma 1/2 is aimed towards young teens, and there's tits all over the place, sexual humor, and lots of innuendo.

In the US, most "kids cartoons" are considered adult cartoons. Hell, have you seen Zoids Genesis? That is aimed towards young kids... 5-10... and the amount of sex appeal in that show is crazy.

Kotona: http://www.1999.co.jp/dbimages/user/hobby/itbig/10064582a.jpg

This next one is based off of a poster(one that my friend has hanging up. I have a picture of it on my desktop but not on my laptop). http://tokyotoys.com/images/large/SA_ZOIDG_KOTONA_L.jpg

My response to this...

Why weren't kids shows like this when I was growing up? There's a very awesome ep. of Zoids Genesis involving the protagonist getting stuck in a cockpit with Kotona, where she rides on top of him, and there are plenty of jokes in the series about him getting an erection during it, and him grabbing her chest, amongst other stuff...

Once more... why weren't cartoons like this when I was a kid?

[G.I.R]

Sounds cliche, but Blame Television!
Animation wasn't always aimed at just children, but to a general audience, or even more towards adults.   Just look at cartoons produced by all the studios back in the 1930's to the early 1950's.  There were lots of visual, and verbal jokes that were somewhat more adult in content (check out some of Fred (Tex) Avery's MGM shorts, or some early Bob Clampett Warner Bros. cartoons.  Not uncommon to find erection jokes in these.)
But then in the 1950's, T.V. comes along.  Stations were looking for content to broadcast for the many households with children and television sets, so many stations started shows (sometimes with hosts) that ran theatrical shorts, including animation.  Then comes along The Mickey Mouse Club, with an animated opening, and at least one short shown in the episode.  Next Bill Hanna and Joseph Barberra, straight from MGM, start their own company, and start producing Kids shows like Ruff n' Ready, Yogi Bear, Huckleberry Hound, etc, for television networks.

Sure, there were prime-time Animated shows to, (Rocky and Bullwinkle, The Flintstones, Johnny Quest,  Crusader Rabbit, The Jetsons, and so on...) but after their prime-time runs, they ended up being syndicated as kids shows.  I guess you can see where this is going.

This is a somewhat simplified explanation, but I hope it helps.

[red_thestrals]

yeah you guys are right... its targeted for the kids-teen age range even tho when u actually look at it... its really more intense than that... thanks guys... guess there's really nothing we can do about it. lol

[PyronIkari]

Sounds cliche, but Blame Television!
Animation wasn't always aimed at just children, but to a general audience, or even more towards adults.   Just look at cartoons produced by all the studios back in the 1930's to the early 1950's.  There were lots of visual, and verbal jokes that were somewhat more adult in content (check out some of Fred (Tex) Avery's MGM shorts, or some early Bob Clampett Warner Bros. cartoons.  Not uncommon to find erection jokes in these.)
But then in the 1950's, T.V. comes along.  Stations were looking for content to broadcast for the many households with children and television sets, so many stations started shows (sometimes with hosts) that ran theatrical shorts, including animation.  Then comes along The Mickey Mouse Club, with an animated opening, and at least one short shown in the episode.  Next Bill Hanna and Joseph Barberra, straight from MGM, start their own company, and start producing Kids shows like Ruff n' Ready, Yogi Bear, Huckleberry Hound, etc, for television networks.

Sure, there were prime-time Animated shows to, (Rocky and Bullwinkle, The Flintstones, Johnny Quest,  Crusader Rabbit, The Jetsons, and so on...) but after their prime-time runs, they ended up being syndicated as kids shows.  I guess you can see where this is going.

This is a somewhat simplified explanation, but I hope it helps.

This is partially true. After World War II the main shift was still towards adult. World War II lowered the morale and state of living for the average person. Animation was being used to raise morale and a lot of propoganda/satirical cartoons were made to raise moral. Disney movies, and stuff were filled with it.

But then the baby boom started, and the young adults from the war were growing up and become parents. The animation shift towards kids was to focus on that. As the adults grew older, they stopped caring about cartoons and entertainment through parody, and started caring about growing up, but their were children all over. So the animation studios picked them as their focus.

Although, MOST kid cartoons have content geared towards adults(all of them), it is still made primarilly for the target audience. That's what this comes down to.

It's buisiness practice, and the most important thing about business is target audience. Without a target, you don't have a market, and you don't make money. The target hasn't changed since then.

[Tur713]

It's not even really time that's done it to cartoons in general. When Walt Disney proposed that he was going to make his feature length movie Snow White, many people didn't think you could get someone to sit down to watch a cartoon. Turned out it was a huge hit! (You know that already, but I'm telling history here.) Did it change anybody's minds? Nope. Cartoons still thought of as kids stuff. Maybe it's part of our nature, I don't know.

[Jun-Watarase]

It's not even really time that's done it to cartoons in general. When Walt Disney proposed that he was going to make his feature length movie Snow White, many people didn't think you could get someone to sit down to watch a cartoon. Turned out it was a huge hit! (You know that already, but I'm telling history here.) Did it change anybody's minds? Nope. Cartoons still thought of as kids stuff. Maybe it's part of our nature, I don't know.

Actually, Walt Disney aimed to make family entertainment. A lot of classic Disney films had their appeal towards adults, too. And why WERE cartoons classified as kids' stuff? It isn't human-nature to classify animation as children's entertainment, it was our upbringings... which was pretty much explained in further above posts, how that mentality was initially created.

Americans already had the concept of using animation to raise spirits, keeping them all generally happy, cute, and comedic. Most late night cartoons are adult comedy. Japanese animation ... has more of a variety of genres and appeal for a diverse audience, ranging from comedy, to romance, to drama, to any genre that has had a non-animated TV show, for a variety of age-groups. Since that isn't as common in comparison, people here automatically associate anime with the general nature of American cartoons. If someone doesn't understand something, in a lot of cases, they compare and associate it with something within their understanding, that's familiar, and sometimes assume that it's nearly the same. Just how things are.

[ip136]

World War II lowered the morale and state of living for the average person.

A bit off-topic for this but uhm...? Would love to hear an explanation on that statement.

[Jun-Watarase]

World War II lowered the morale and state of living for the average person.

A bit off-topic for this but uhm...? Would love to hear an explanation on that statement.

I'm not as familiar with the subject, but the logical explanation is that after the war, the country was left heavily in debt and lowered the standards of living conditions for the average person. Emotionally, I'd assume people were in despair. Cartoons and entertainment in general were created to raise the spirits of people. That's as simple as you could put it, I'm sure.

[Tur713]

World War II lowered the morale and state of living for the average person.

A bit off-topic for this but uhm...? Would love to hear an explanation on that statement.

I'm not as familiar with the subject, but the logical explanation is that after the war, the country was left heavily in debt and lowered the standards of living conditions for the average person. Emotionally, I'd assume people were in despair. Cartoons and entertainment in general were created to raise the spirits of people. That's as simple as you could put it, I'm sure.

Lol, thanks Jun! I was gonna reply with something like that, but you just have a way of saying what I want to say only better, as was the case with my last post in this thread. Can I just tell you what threads I wanna discuss in and let you do the rest of the work? :D

[PyronIkari]

World War II lowered the morale and state of living for the average person.

A bit off-topic for this but uhm...? Would love to hear an explanation on that statement.

After World War II, the world was basically left in a horrible state. The US loaned billions to Europe so they could repair and get going again after the aftermath. Millions died around the world, and the death toll in the US wasn't any laughing matter(even though it was significantly lower than a most of the other countries). It was good, because a lot of people that left for war was back, but it doesn't help that so many people, never came back, as well as the state of the economy. Although it was still much better than the state after world war I, seeing that there was no depression or stock market crash or anything, it was still not in the best state.

With the large amount of money going to Europe, and the average person not wanting to do anything because they just came back from war, the economy wasn't in the best state. The average person spent money on entertainment and leisure.

[BrightHeart76]

I think the sterotype of animation being just for kids is changing.  Why do I think this?  Computer Generated Images.  Because CGI is so stylistically different then traditional cel animation a lot of people are more willing to accept the movies / shows as being for everyone, not just kids.  Be it CGI animation in games or movies more "adults" seem to be willing to accept that form of animation.  It's a slow change, but I think there is change happening.  At least that's my humble opinion.

[Jehuty]

I guess it's just a case of "Ye Olde Stigma."

Animation/Anime = Cartoons
Cartoons = Kids

One could argue production values and subject matter all day long and STILL, most minds wouldn't be changed...

[red_thestrals]

I guess it's just a case of "Ye Olde Stigma."

Animation/Anime = Cartoons
Cartoons = Kids

One could argue production values and subject matter all day long and STILL, most minds wouldn't be changed...

so true

[Shaggy]

Just to answer the question: A lot of adults and kids, in America, think that animation is strictly for kids. From an early age we are taught and shown that animation is a child-like phase, like comic books, ponies, and dreams.
Here in America, if you write or draw anything, you are restricted to certain places. Most are stuck doing Disney work or working for the top comic fields. True, there are independent places one could go or even start up your own production company. But without real support, most of these places fail.
In Japan, there are tons a places a good writer and good artist can go. It is becuase, culturally, from the very begining, animation was repected.
Take the Disney film, Peter Pan and the Japanese counterpart Astro Boy. The Disney film came out in 1953 and was considered a success. The same could be said for the Astro Boy TV show. Astro Boy was created in 1951 and in the 1960 given a TV show. Astro Boy stayed in the public eye and was even shown here in the US in 1963. Peter Pan just became another Disney film.
Therefore, Astro Boy was respected by the Japanese population as a whole and Peter Pan in America, was seen as a fairly tale for kids.

[ip136]

World War II lowered the morale and state of living for the average person.

A bit off-topic for this but uhm...? Would love to hear an explanation on that statement.

After World War II, the world was basically left in a horrible state. [...] With the large amount of money going to Europe, and the average person not wanting to do anything because they just came back from war, the economy wasn't in the best state. The average person spent money on entertainment and leisure.

o.o Uhm... So... you.. uh..
Ok.
So are you saying that because of World War II, the US becoming the super power that lent all the other countries money to help rebuild their countries by purchasing American steel and the likes, did not create an economic boom that was prevalent in helping almost every single American become middle class?
Or are you trying to say that the US was in such a dire economic crunch because the continuation of war production, brought on about the Cold War and the expansion of US military power, in fact made life harder for the American person, and the GI bill did not aid Americans in the creation of an attainable middle class stature?

[PyronIkari]

o.o Uhm... So... you.. uh..
Ok.
So are you saying that because of World War II, the US becoming the super power that lent all the other countries money to help rebuild their countries by purchasing American steel and the likes, did not create an economic boom that was prevalent in helping almost every single American become middle class?
Or are you trying to say that the US was in such a dire economic crunch because the continuation of war production, brought on about the Cold War and the expansion of US military power, in fact made life harder for the American person, and the GI bill did not aid Americans in the creation of an attainable middle class stature?

Neither. It was about state of mind of the people, and their usage of money. Economy focused purely around entertainment and leisure over everything else. But if you think almost every American become middle class, you're severely mistaken. Or that the GI bill helped all those that were drafted for the war.

America lent money to Europeon countries and your average American was spending money on leisure and comfort, not normal things.

This is the whole issue with where cartoons was still focused on adults, because adults were spending their money on whatever they could to make themselves feel better. They just went through a huge war and the mentallity of your average person was not "ALRIGHT AMERICA IS GOING TO MAKE MONEY FROM THIS!" And a huge part of the money loaned was not for America to make money, it was for Britain, Italy, France, and the rest of Europe to build itself back. America didn't get that money back until a few years ago(which still has us in debt).

Your average American felt lucky to even be alive, and were trying to best to live up what they could, entertain themselves, however they could, and sleep with everyone they could. Hence... the baby boom. And at the current state, America could have been considered middle class, but when you add in the extra population and what not, then no, it's not the same story. America as a countries economy was fine, in terms of money and capabilities, but usage and consistency didn't last long.

[Sharysa]

It isn't human-nature to classify animation as children's entertainment, it was our upbringings... which was pretty much explained in further above posts, how that mentality was initially created.

Americans already had the concept of using animation to raise spirits, keeping them all generally happy, cute, and comedic. Most late night cartoons are adult comedy. Japanese animation ... has more of a variety of genres and appeal for a diverse audience, ranging from comedy, to romance, to drama, to any genre that has had a non-animated TV show, for a variety of age-groups. Since that isn't as common in comparison, people here automatically associate anime with the general nature of American cartoons. If someone doesn't understand something, in a lot of cases, they compare and associate it with something within their understanding, that's familiar, and sometimes assume that it's nearly the same. Just how things are.

Aside from the useful tangent about WWII, which has already been explained, I agree with Jun-Watarase--we had a plethora of things hitting us at nearly the same time, and we needed something to keep us from sinking into mass emotional depression on top of our economic depression and post-war shock.  Cartoons were the perfect medium for that.

I've been an anime fan for at least three years and I STILL get shocked whenever something drastically emotional happens in an anime, like Full Metal Alchemist and the infamous Episode 25.  The last four episodes of Wolf's Rain, though--they made me lose every drop of hope for almost a week.  I love that show, but it's such a horrific downer at the end that I was in pieces at the end.  Other WR fans will almost unanimously agree.  If I tried to explain why I had such an extreme reaction to someone who hasn't watched it, or isn't familiar with anime, they'd either get confused or be condescending that I'm so hung up about a cartoon.

The main difference between anime and Western animation is that no matter what the audience, the creator/manga-ka will make the characters as human as possible; they have flaws like real people (like near-selfish determination or being a total jackass, not just "he has a bad temper" or "he's so determined he forgets to eat"), and complain about stupid things like real people do.  With Western animation, there's almost none of those human qualities in the characters.  Part of it stems from how we first used cartoons, and a large part now is to make everything family-friendly.  (The news mentioned something about Sesame Street being "not safe for kids."  SESAME STREET.)

Keep in mind that a lot of mainstream anime IS targeted at kids and teens, and there's not much focus on anything else unless you actively look for it.

[ip136]

Neither. It was about state of mind of the people, and their usage of money. Economy focused purely around entertainment and leisure over everything else.  [...]
America as a countries economy was fine, in terms of money and capabilities, but usage and consistency didn't last long.

Uhm...
First off.. who is the 'average American' and... why are you quoting social history from a time period you didn't live through? Let's get the facts straight before trying to point out the mentality of a period we were not alive for...
I am pretty sure you are mixing up your post-war eras... After WWII, the middle class that we know today was created, partially from the wealth that America was receiving from other countries and the GI Bill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GI_Bill). With Western Europe's infrastructure destroyed, they needed material to rebuild, they also needed money to buy the material. America, a place where the battle was not fought on, supplied money for Europe to buy American goods. This lead to an economical boom (See: Marshall Plan.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan).
Also, For your knowledge, no one was drafted in WWII.

Now, I can agree.. there was a boom for entertainment. Because of the economical boom and also because of the increase of technology, but not because they were trying to keep themselves happy, but because the quality of life improved and people actually had MONEY to spend.
The baby boom also, wasn't about having sex with anyone they could, and it is really offensive to even think so.

Oh! And sorry for using all wikipedia sites.. I am a bit too lazy to pull out the actual books. . .

Now, as for actual cartoons being looked on as more childish, it could be say that it was really the baby boom that ignited this. You have younger children, the integration of the television into the family home, and just simply... the market to sell to. Since the first largest market in America was really towards children, I guess you could say it just stuck...

[red_thestrals]

you guys think that its totally different from japan? i mean their mindset towards anime/manga or just animation in general?