Rick Stelow from Drunkenmaster told me just how bad Asian film counterfeiting has become. A month ago at Wizard World, he counted 15 dealers carrying counterfeits of Asian films. A short conversation with a sales rep from Media Blasters confirmed what Rick had to say. Media Blasters had to stop several dealers from selling counterfeit copies of Versus. The worst part is that Drunkenmaster and Media Blasters are suffering because of this neglect. Here are two companies trying to give us the Asian films we want to see and they can’t compete against those that counterfeit their legitimate product. It has gotten to the point that Rick has thought about either carrying bootlegs himself or quitting. When I went into Amoeba records the other day, I understood Rick’s pain. I was astounded to find they too carried counterfeits. Copies of Cutey Honey, Old Boy, Casshern and Azumi were all for sale and all counterfeits. What is going on here?
Now, why am I calling them counterfeits? Because they are not really bootlegs. These are excellent, quality copies of DVD masters that were illegally obtained or they are copies of DVD’s with subtitles added to them.. These discs are made for less than 2 dollars a piece and then sold for upwards around 13 to 20 dollars. Amoeba sells these titles because they claim not to know any better. They also claim that they can’t be bootleg since they come from Hong Kong. It is scary when an American company is so culturally blind to know that not all Asian films come from Hong Kong.
Right now, Comic Con, WonderCon, AX, and even PMX do nothing about Asian Film Counterfeits. PMX even allows Cine-East, a big distributor of Asian Film counterfeits in Southern California (which can be verfied by looking at their website) to HOST their Asian Film track. After checking PMX’s site for this year, Cine-East is once again organizing the Asian Film track.
Counterfeits are hard to spot. Last year at Fanime, Anime Combo had copies of Ichii the Killer that had Capitol Records on the box. The box looked legitimate because Capitol records is a recognized name. You have to realize though that Capitol Records does not put out Ichii the Killer, Media Blasters does. Easier ways to find counterfeits are if they:
1.Are All Region and the title was only released in Japan or China.
2.The box says region 2 or 3 but still plays on your region 1 DVD player.
3.The copyright on the box does not refer to the company that releases
film.
Industry must step up. Companies like Media Blasters, Tartan Video, and Columbia need to start punishing these counterfeiters. We all remember this happening to Anime in the 90’s and to Anime soundtracks just recently. It was even said that Anime soundtracks would never make it in the US because of the strangle hold Son May and Everanime had on the market. Now, both are cleaned up. The same must happen to Asian films as well.
What can you do about it? Simple, don’t buy these counterfeits, don’t support any store that supplies counterfeits, and certainly don’t go to a convention that allows counterfeiters to sell what ever they want. These people are ripping off the industry, not giving one dime back to the creators, and are overcharging you, the consumer.
Here's two other culprits I've run accross:
1. The Bi-monthly L.A. Comicbook/Sci-Fi convention held at the Shrine Auditorium, mere miles from Hollywood. Not only are there bootleg Asian DVD's, I've run accross American, and European films there to (several vendors selling bad PAL transfers of Imortal here).
2. National Productions Computer Fair. Held on a rotation scheduel iat several locations in L.A.,Santa Barbara, Orange, and San Diego Counties, are several vendors also selling bootlegs.
At Both venues, I've recently seen Kung-fu Hustle, Beck, Tenjo Tenge, and other DVD's not only for sale, but beeing displayed on monitors on the dealer room floor! Hell, not long after Spiderman was released in the theatres, vendors (I use the term loosely...) were selling bootleg DVD's!
And as far as Comic Con International, how can companies like Geneon, Viz, ADV Films ect. not be aware of bootlegs of their titles being sold in a dealers room that they're displaying therir wares? :?:
Red Sun DVD has a whole website devoted to the Piracy of Asian Films. These guys even have this on their website:
If you represent a USA based video distributor and own the exclusive copyright to one of the films we carry, please contact us at:
[email protected] or fax to: 800-454-8102 so we can immediately remove the title(s) from our web site. We will honor your request immediately as we have no wish to infringe on your copyright.
Wow! So, if you see RED SUN on the label, YOU KNOW it is a bootleg!
Sincerely,
Jason Ebner
Dealerjason
Even places like Kinokuniya is promoting the fake stuff. I wanted to buy a couple of cds, because only had enough cash on my for 3 of the 5 and both of the ladies at the register, told me to go across the parking lot to the market place and you can get all 5 cds for less that a 1/4. I bought my 3 and went into the market place and behold, a whole section devoted to bootlegs of jpop, jrock, visual kei and movies. I was shocked, but I was desperate and bought one cd from them and holy hell did the thing skip all the way home.
I learned then and there that you get what you pay for.
Wow, interesting.
I bought a copy of Kung Fu Hustle at ReccaCon. I thought to myself, "Hey, this is still in the theaters" but when I looked on the back it says it's Region 3 and I figured it's an "international copy". I have an open region DVD player so I buy it.
After unwrapping the plastic, I notice that the outer cover is printed with a dull finish unlike the high gloss of originals. I figure, must be an 'artistic approach'. So I continue on and take out the case and the first thing I noticed is that the case is made of a low quality recycled thin plastic (really cheap looking). But I figure, no no, they are at ReccaCon which is Jason's Con and he won't stand for bootlegs. Then I open the case and the DVD is sitting in a cheap little plastic bag. I'm thinking.. crap. bootleg. So I examine the screen print on the DVD itself. Not bad, but then again, not good since this is supposed to be from Colombia/Sony. I pop the DVD in and begin to watch. 1/4 way in the movie starts skipping. It chunks so hard to where you can see those digital green and purple squares. Anyone who's made a "back up" :wink: of any DVD has seen these before. But I figured, maybe the DVD player is dirty. I clean it, same results. So I take out the DVD and take it to my living room where I have a brand spanking new DVD player. Same thing... and then it also hits me, isn't this DVD Region 3? This player is NOT my open region one. So I scan past the corrupted parts, enjoy the movie but it still kinda bugged me. So I examine the cover.... here's what I found:
Here's a scanned image of the DVD cover of Kung Fu Hustle that I bought.
(https://forums.fanime.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.agartstudios.com%2FBootlegPics%2FBootleg.jpg&hash=7f2b9434b043552467e32b4af959cdd711234bf6)
I have numbered the errors I found, which are also tell tale signs of a bootleg besides the everything else I explained earlier.
#1 - No UPC. Why not? They don't have 'Universal Pricing Code" in Region 3 areas?
#2 - Typo - Text it cut. This is not a common mistake for originals.
(https://forums.fanime.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.agartstudios.com%2FBootlegPics%2FBootleg1.jpg&hash=e2f3ea6b3cfe5f4944d7e71fa0c255ab34ccb517)
This one can be somewhat dismissable, but let's continue...
#3 - Another Typo.
(https://forums.fanime.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.agartstudios.com%2FBootlegPics%2FBootleg2.jpg&hash=9f7f80e9b3dc31b5493f6762e96fd0ce93fb2e5a)
I thought they could've meant Sound Racks, but the double 'r' is proof that it didn't.
#4 - Typo...
(https://forums.fanime.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.agartstudios.com%2FBootlegPics%2FBootleg3.jpg&hash=36888f046fb488d6a386d12c95bd991287460aa7)
Just because fine print is small and hard to read, doesn't mean no one reads it. Most bootlegs in my experiece also like to purposely mispell the word 'original', since it's not.
#5 - Fun with more typos.
(https://forums.fanime.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.agartstudios.com%2FBootlegPics%2FBootleg4.jpg&hash=3eb92b0112c4711ca1f4cde12b83761d0b66f1df)
Ok, some typos happen, even with originals. BUT, this is one of the companies name! At first I thought Sany? Isn't it Sony? and don't you mean PICTURES, not PCTURES... but then I look over and I see the Sony logo, so that cleared up the Sany part (never heard of Sany) but look at the Sony Logo, and this one is my favorite.
#6 - Are you ententained yet?
(https://forums.fanime.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.agartstudios.com%2FBootlegPics%2FBootleg5.jpg&hash=c4689fb0e8b0d5695f9ee3d0750bca04bd08850d)
Sony Pictures - Home Ententainment.... OK OK, if you messed up the smaller company's name, that's fine, but Sony's! Wow, I worked for a video game company and I'll tell you, a lot of people go over the covers with a microscope before they go out. But wow, 5 typos and they misspelled on Sony's logo. If this was an original and someone messed up Sony's logo, they should be fired! and since it's in a Region 3 country, they should be caned too!
No, that was not Rick who sold you that bootleg copy of Kung Fu Hustle at RECCA Con, it was Yes Anime who sold that to you, and I was VERY upset they brought those bootlegs to my show.
I wish Rick and Drunkenmaster were at RECCA Con, but alas, they were at Wizard World which had its own problem with Bootlegs. If you saw Rick's booth at Fanime, you would have seen that he had ALL legitimate copies of Kung Fu Hustle.
Please make sure you are accurate with your information before you post please. However, this goes to show you just how close you have to look to make sure you do not have a bootleg.
Sincerely,
Jason Ebner
oooh..... MANY APOLOGIES TO Drunkenmaster!!
I edited my post ASAP.
I got the 2 Dealers mixed up. I repeat.. MY FAULT. :oops:
BUT, I left up my findings to show others how far bootlegs will go.
no wonder yesanime wasn't at fanimecon.
last time i saw them was at wondercon. and yeah, they we're selling kung fu hustle which is to my surprise ALL region coding. and they were also selling Appleseed the Movie.
bottom line, they got bootlegs. asian films and anime, particularly the naruto boxsets.
Bootlegging these days is so bad that it not only hurts companies like Drunken Master, but it also puts a dent into the Asian film industry itself. When box office numbers decline as much as they have in Hong Kong and Korea, all that does is make it less possible for more films to see production. Though audiences are a large culprit in this, bootlegs are also a major contributing factor.
When going to a convention and looking for Asian films, it's a rule of mine to not buy from any dealer except Drunken Master. The chance of running into bootlegs with any other booth selling Asian films at a con is just too high.
There's a reason why the Fanime Asian Film Room works so closely with Drunken Master; with them, we know we're getting the real deal.
Then sell it to me cheaper. :wink:
Quote from: "YoureMyHiro"Then sell it to me cheaper. :wink:
Actually, I don't really think that you can consider Drunken Master's prices expensive, especially for what you get. They had a TON of great DVDs for sale in a bin labeled as "$10 DVDS FOR SALE," and their prices are on the same scale as many other retailers, if not less.
In terms of convention dealers, there simply is no better dealer of Asian Films.
Well today, I once again went to the bi-monthly L.A. Comic book, and Sci Fi convention, and ran across another bunch of dealers selling counterfeit DVD's. The newest thing I saw, DVD cases sealed with the same kind of tape at the top, with a barcode, and title printed on them like the real ones you buy at any legitamit retailer. They look convincing, until you look at the back of the case. There you find... yup! Fake studio logos, misspellings, and other things mentioned in posts above. Sad thing, Drunken Master also had a booth, trying to do honest business. :(
I don't wanna go out of topic, since this is a Dealers Room sub-forum.
When I was browsing PMX for this year, I noticed that the Asian Film Room that they have down there will be organized by Cine-East.
I dunno couldn't help noticing it and posting it here, since we are in the discussion of bootleggers and Cine-East. That's sad. :(
Cine-East attends AX, PMX, Comic-Con, WonderCon, Ani-Magic, A-Kon, and the monthy LA Comicbook show. They are simply, as listed here, the most high profile Asian Film bootleg distributor in California. There website is a testimony to this. Both Asian Film and Anime knock offs are proudly displayed there.
The problem is that many people don't know Asian Films like we do. They think, "Hey great deal!" not, "Is this licensed?". Most people want to believe that a high profile movie like "Kung Fu Hustle" will have an all region version just weeks after its domestic release. It is simply not possible. Unfortunately, companies like Cine-East capitalize on this lack of knowledge.
The only way we can prevent a company like Cine-East from taking advangtage of Fandom is:
1. Educate fans on what they should buy
2. Don't support shows where bootleggers do the Asian Film programming or are allowed to sell movies.
3. Get yourself a region free DVD player so that Region encoding is not an issue.
I have heard rumblings of an Anti-Bootleg website coming soon. I hope that I am apart of it. As a teacher, I want to educate people about this industry and to cultivate it, not destroy it.
Like my tag line says, "If you love it, then protect it"
Sincerely,
Jason Ebner
Heh heh heh! Got a funny story.
I went to AX today, and Cine-East had a booth there. Funny part?: they didn't bring the bootlegs! Everything I saw was a legit import, or domestic. Go figure... :roll:
I got a funnier story. Seems Cine-East was HIDING the bootlegs because AX caught them and threw them out as of today (Sunday). Go Figure.
dealerjason
:lol: Buwahahahah! :lol: Guess you really can't get a zebra to change its stripes! Way to go AX!
Well, needless to say, I'm here at SDCC, and guess who's here...
Yeah, the usual suspects. Admittedly thou, there's less Hong Kong, and Anime bootlegs, but there is lots of stuff I know that isn't legit. I don't know what's dumber... The Vendors putting these counterfeit wares out in the open, or the studios, and Home Video companies that seem to ignore this. :?
Quote from: "dealerJason"These guys even have this on their website:.
Okay I get that but where is all of this going?
Woah thanks dealerJason. My god you helped me out here. I ended up buying some bootlegs online which pisses me off actually, but lesson learned (that and I seem to have lost the site's name). I'll be extra careful when buying Dvd's this year...I swear. I wonder if you can boot leg a figurine...hmm. Oh God the joy of shopping is gone!
Excuse me as I go off on a slightly related tangent:
Quote from: "Tsukai Mori"I wonder if you can boot leg a figurine...hmm.
Yes, and it does happen. As a general rule, look for poor paint jobs and rough spots-maybe even some traces of flash. Most PVCs/coldcasts/etc. come in boxes, so use that to your advantage and look for the tell-tale signs of counterfeit wares: poor printing, bad stock, incorrect company, etc. The thing that'll get you further than anything else though is probably getting familiar with the legitimate product or similar products by the same company.
The CD store in Japantown sells bootlegs. (Dunno the name, but it's next to the Hello Kitty store) >_< Of all places!!! I felt so disturbed for them to promote bootlegs. I stopped going there :evil:
YesAnime has always been bad. I know too many people who got ripped off there :(
Quote from: "yOna"The CD store in Japantown sells bootlegs. (Dunno the name, but it's next to the Hello Kitty store) >_< Of all places!!! I felt so disturbed for them to promote bootlegs. I stopped going there :evil:
YesAnime has always been bad. I know too many people who got ripped off there :(
Mikado has some bootlegs, but MOST of their stuff is legit imports.
Quote from: "frumpy"Quote from: "yOna"The CD store in Japantown sells bootlegs. (Dunno the name, but it's next to the Hello Kitty store) >_< Of all places!!! I felt so disturbed for them to promote bootlegs. I stopped going there :evil:
YesAnime has always been bad. I know too many people who got ripped off there :(
Mikado has some bootlegs, but MOST of their stuff is legit imports.
yea no worries i saw a lot of legits, just it was the last place i'd think there would be bootlegs =\. meh oh well....yesasia for me ^^;;
Quote from: "dealerJason"Rick Stelow from Drunkenmaster told me just how bad Asian film counterfeiting has become. A month ago at Wizard World, he counted 15 dealers carrying counterfeits of Asian films. A short conversation with a sales rep from Media Blasters confirmed what Rick had to say. Media Blasters had to stop several dealers from selling counterfeit copies of Versus. The worst part is that Drunkenmaster and Media Blasters are suffering because of this neglect. Here are two companies trying to give us the Asian films we want to see and they can’t compete against those that counterfeit their legitimate product. It has gotten to the point that Rick has thought about either carrying bootlegs himself or quitting. When I went into Amoeba records the other day, I understood Rick’s pain. I was astounded to find they too carried counterfeits. Copies of Cutey Honey, Old Boy, Casshern and Azumi were all for sale and all counterfeits. What is going on here?
Now, why am I calling them counterfeits? Because they are not really bootlegs. These are excellent, quality copies of DVD masters that were illegally obtained or they are copies of DVD’s with subtitles added to them.. These discs are made for less than 2 dollars a piece and then sold for upwards around 13 to 20 dollars. Amoeba sells these titles because they claim not to know any better. They also claim that they can’t be bootleg since they come from Hong Kong. It is scary when an American company is so culturally blind to know that not all Asian films come from Hong Kong.
Right now, Comic Con, WonderCon, AX, and even PMX do nothing about Asian Film Counterfeits. PMX even allows Cine-East, a big distributor of Asian Film counterfeits in Southern California (which can be verfied by looking at their website) to HOST their Asian Film track. After checking PMX’s site for this year, Cine-East is once again organizing the Asian Film track.
Counterfeits are hard to spot. Last year at Fanime, Anime Combo had copies of Ichii the Killer that had Capitol Records on the box. The box looked legitimate because Capitol records is a recognized name. You have to realize though that Capitol Records does not put out Ichii the Killer, Media Blasters does. Easier ways to find counterfeits are if they:
1.Are All Region and the title was only released in Japan or China.
2.The box says region 2 or 3 but still plays on your region 1 DVD player.
3.The copyright on the box does not refer to the company that releases
film.
Industry must step up. Companies like Media Blasters, Tartan Video, and Columbia need to start punishing these counterfeiters. We all remember this happening to Anime in the 90’s and to Anime soundtracks just recently. It was even said that Anime soundtracks would never make it in the US because of the strangle hold Son May and Everanime had on the market. Now, both are cleaned up. The same must happen to Asian films as well.
What can you do about it? Simple, don’t buy these counterfeits, don’t support any store that supplies counterfeits, and certainly don’t go to a convention that allows counterfeiters to sell what ever they want. These people are ripping off the industry, not giving one dime back to the creators, and are overcharging you, the consumer.
ACtually, most of those cons selling counterfeits don't know there are booths selling the stuff. You need to be vocal about it and tell the staffers what's going on. When they get caught by a staffer, you'll see the cops come in and all hell breaks loose at that booth. I personally saw it happen at San Diego ComicCon. They also have staffers taking pics of the booth and the people at the booth... I don't know why.
CompUSA in the Puente Hills mall was playing Final Fantasy Advent Children last weekend on their big screen tv. Apparently one of the staffers put it on the tv. When I told them that they were showing a bootlegged copy, they really didn't know. They had to turn it off. If someone had come in and known about this and called SquareEnix... that store would be fined and closed down. Sooooo... direct staffers to the bootlegs/counterfeits and get the business cards and whatever else you can and report them. Otherwise, destroy their booth and steal their merch. Cos what can they do? Report you? "Hi... Police? Yeah my counterfeit DVD's were stolen..." Not going to happen. Be aggressive and fight these people, otherwise you will lose in the end.
Quote from: "sykoeent"...Otherwise, destroy their booth and steal their merch. Cos what can they do? Report you? "Hi... Police? Yeah my counterfeit DVD's were stolen..." Not going to happen. Be aggressive and fight these people, otherwise you will lose in the end.
Ooh, bad idea. You will
most likely end up being hauled in with the vendor for disturbing the peace and more. Don't fight crime with crime.
What we really need here is a list of contacts to report these people, heather they are distributers, or law enforcement in the cities mentioned in the above posts, and the proper way to report these people.
Quote from: "G.I.R"Quote from: "sykoeent"...Otherwise, destroy their booth and steal their merch. Cos what can they do? Report you? "Hi... Police? Yeah my counterfeit DVD's were stolen..." Not going to happen. Be aggressive and fight these people, otherwise you will lose in the end.
Ooh, bad idea. You will most likely end up being hauled in with the vendor for disturbing the peace and more. Don't fight crime with crime.
What we really need here is a list of contacts to report these people, heather they are distributers, or law enforcement in the cities mentioned in the above posts, and the proper way to report these people.
Yeah, just being over dramatic... but maybe inviting representatives of the movie's distribution team? Then they can witness first hand at who is selling counterfeit and well... give the sueing papers direct to the dealer.
Folks:
FYI I have started a webpage listing email address at companies for reporting sellers of bootleg material.
http://www.koyagi.com/pirates.html
It is still in a very early stage but I hope to go public with it by Famine 2006.
It will also eventually include a page on how to tell the difference between pirated DVD discs and legitimate imported discs.
Has anyone heard if KungFuDVD.com carrys bootlegs? I'm having a booth at Fanime this year and haven't used them as a distributor before. I'd like to hear the skinny before I sign up with them.
Thanks a bunch.
Quote from: "lobohan"Has anyone heard if KungFuDVD.com carrys bootlegs?
It looks like it.
They have Shogun Assassin right up front, the first legit license for DVD was signed by AnimEigo recently. They also have several Lone Wolf and Cub boots.
I'll drop AnimEigo a note on this.
If Media Blasters and other companies hit San Francisco's Chinatown, that would be one great raid. Unfortunately, many of the Hong Kong (and anime) movies they sell are counterfeit. It's really sad. Though there was this boxset of Kung Fu Hustle which included the handprint and martial arts training booklets (just like in the movie). Maybe that was legit, but I'm rather iffy about spending money to a place that sells boots.
Quote from: "White Rose Assassin"If Media Blasters and other companies hit San Francisco's Chinatown, that would be one great raid.
You could always ask the shop owners for their business cards, note some specific titles and then contact the companies.
One of the hard things about buying Hong Kong imports is knowing which companies are legit. As part of the, all too slowly developing, page I'm putting together there will be lists of legit and boot companies, hopefully with logos.
Tip: If a store is selling booleg Ghibli titles report them to Disney Copyright Enforcement, they have the buck to go after them. How do you know it is a boot? If it is region free.
Email address available at:
http://www.koyagi.com/pirates.html
Quote from: "White Rose Assassin"If Media Blasters and other companies hit San Francisco's Chinatown, that would be one great raid. Unfortunately, many of the Hong Kong (and anime) movies they sell are counterfeit. It's really sad. Though there was this boxset of Kung Fu Hustle which included the handprint and martial arts training booklets (just like in the movie). Maybe that was legit, but I'm rather iffy about spending money to a place that sells boots.
I scour Chinatown for DVDs all the time, and those Asian film releases they have are mostly legit. Places like Sun, QQ, Asia-Star, and the place next to Golden Gate Bakery (I keep forgetting its name) all sell legit Hong Kong releases, be it of Hong Kong films, Japanese films, Korean films, or what have you.
As for the handprint boxset of Kung Fu Hustle, this is absolutely legit and is an ultra-rare special edition that was released when the film made it to DVD in Hong Kong.
When it comes to Anime, it's a little tougher to discern this because in Hong Kong, China, and Taiwan, there really are no companies that release Anime like it's released over in the United States, and what may seem to be a bootleg over here to the common American anime fan is actually the only real copy you'll find of a movie, OVA, or series over there in Asia.
You can usually tell which copies are the R3 copies because they usually have at least two audio tracks, if not three. They are usually Japanese/Cantonese, Japanese/Mandarin, or all three. They usually also include English, Chinese (Simp.), and Chinese (Trad.) subtitle tracks.
The real problem isn't that these are "bootlegs," because to an Anime fan in Hong Kong or Taiwan, they're plenty real to them. I mean, it's all they've got. The problem is that these copies are not region-encoded, and the English track makes it possible for American Anime fans to purchase them. The fact that they are usually cheaper and sold in bundles really doesn't help American Distributors.
Quote from: "asianfilm"
The real problem isn't that these are "bootlegs," because to an Anime fan in Hong Kong or Taiwan, they're plenty real to them. I mean, it's all they've got. The problem is that these copies are not region-encoded, and the English track makes it possible for American Anime fans to purchase them.
Actually almost all legit anime from Hong Kong is region encoded for R3. There are very very few exceptions to this.
For a good guide to spoting bootleg anime see:
http://www.digital.anime.org.uk/piratefaq.html
That said the shops in San Francisco's Chinatown are doing a better job of stocking legit live action Hong Kong films. I've been able to pick up titles I wanted for years but could only find boots in the past.
SacAnime had one dealer with nothing but counterfeit DVDs.
Quote from: "slifertheskydragon"SacAnime had one dealer with nothing but counterfeit DVDs.
Would you mind explaining the details of what you know?