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[deonchan]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,448684,00.html


Though this article does disturb me it does not surprise me. Racism is a part of our country. Racism though ugly, hurtful and unnecessary is unfortunately here to stay. In the wake of making history and electing the first Afro-American president and on the surface unifying the country, blemishes like this come up and remind us that hey 200+ years isn’t going to go away in one night.

I also find it ironic at the dead black to white split on the school board (all blacks voted to change it all whites opted to keep it the same)

Now I wonder IF the vote had gone the other way, would the community start a bit of an uproar... (From the article: "I am thrilled to death that the school board voted it down to leave it Nathan Bedford Forrest," said Parker, who served on the county school board for 20 years.)
OR
If this were in a more pardon for lack of a better term liberal area, would there be mass protests in front of school as we speak?

The thing that REALLY gets to me is the student body. Now it’s been a long time since I was in High School but last I checked (seeing as I teach and all) there is usually some sort of large mural/school history in LARGE public display on campus SOMEWHERE. So either

a)   the history posted is really one sided
b)   there is nothing posted
c)   the kids don’t care
d)   the kids don’t get it
e)   combo of any of the above.

I wonder what they do on sprit and rally days… Then again, Not my school, not my district not my (immediate) problem.


Discuss.

[TC_X0_Lt_0X]

Does it really matter is the first thing I thought.
All it is is a name. Even if it is the name of a racist, why care?
The fact of the matter is that the man had something to do with the schools creation, and is honored for that reason, not because he was racist.
Besides, most of these kids would probably not even give a damn.

[ewu]

Now conversely, have a school in Dresden or better yet in Jerusalem named after Führer Adolf Hitler.
Where is the line?

What is even more troubling is why these kids don't care. Why do they not concern themselves about this aspect of American history? Will they grow up to commit the same mistakes that those before them have? Will they oppress and attack those that are your brothers and sisters?

It's funny how much you learn from History.

[Rette]

It only really matters if they named it after him and continue to teach his "doctrine" as it were.

For example... St. Ignatius College Preparatory's mission statement is to make "Men and Women for and with others."
Why? Because St Ignatius founded the Jesuit sect of Christianity and he thinks everyone should help each other blah blah blah (heard this a lot in high school...)

If this school's mission statement is "To promote racism and crush the plague that has infected our nation." or some bullshit like that, then the school has more serious issues than just its name.

I'm sure there are a ton of schools whose founder (or namesake) had a questionable past...

I wonder if there are any Andrew Jackson schools... duel anyone?

[Steve.Young]

It is not in the name but the principles behind what the school represents.

[ewu]

Schools are named as such to honor the people they are named after. What principles do honoring a person represent? and what if that person represents something generally accepted by the public as unacceptable?

[Mizuki]

Op, I would like if you could put your opinion out there too. It's hard to start a debate with nothing to counter or agree on. It's also a nice icebreaker.

[deonchan]

Op, I would like if you could put your opinion out there too. It's hard to start a debate with nothing to counter or agree on. It's also a nice icebreaker.

done and done.

[TC_X0_Lt_0X]

It's funny how much you learn from History.

Right now I am studying the Great Depression, in both World and American History.

[ewu]

It's funny how much you learn from History.

Right now I am studying the Great Depression, in both World and American History.

In history and real life. (a great depression rather)

[Nyxyin]

Racism though ugly, hurtful and unnecessary is unfortunately here to stay.

I very strongly disagree with the "here to stay" part.  Racism is already physically dying out.  Love has literally conquered racism, and it's only a matter of time that people will have to find other ways and reasons to hate.  Even though the media loves to say that Obama is black and is heralding him as the first black President, honestly, he's a good old-fashioned, ideal American melting-pot mutt.  There are already very many multiracial children, and one of them is becoming President of the United States.  Eventually, enough people will have such mixed racial backgrounds that we won't even be able to recognize "purebreds" when we see them.  People will have such varied blood that they will be able to choose their racial identity the way they can choose their favorite sports team.  At that point, people simply won't understand the emotional level of what a race was, much less why there was such a big deal over it.  I suppose they might have rivalries, and fans of one team/race/culture might have a friendly rivalry with fans of a different team, but it'd all be in good fun.  Around the Bay Area, I already see a huge number of Caucasian/Asian couples with hapa children.  Even before blacks and whites were allowed to marry, there were lots of mulatos.  As long as we're allowed to intermarry and have children with other races, some people are going to fall in love and procreate with people from different genetic backgrounds.  It's possible to argue that evolution drives us to seek out situations that will give rise to more genetic diversity as long as it produces viable children.  And, once those children are born, their parents are evolutionarily supposed to love them, care for them, want the best for them, and do as much as possible to make the environment good to them.  Racism is a lame duck on its last legs, much like President Bush is right now, and it will probably die out within the next century at the latest.  With the help of Hollywood and the Internet, it may even be within the next three decades or so.

blemishes like this come up and remind us that hey 200+ years isn’t going to go away in one night.

Of course not, but things have been slowly getting better, and they will continue to do so.  Maybe the students aren't protesting because they don't feel oppressed.  Maybe it's only a few crazy trouble-makers that want the renaming.  It's not like they named their school after a KKK person just recently.  "Forrest High got its name in 1959".  The people there probably don't move much.  They've always known the school as "Forrest High".  Their older brothers and sisters probably went to "Forrest High".  Maybe their parents even went to "Forrest High".  It's been "Forrest High" all their lives, and it would probably be weird for people if the school suddenly stopped being "Forrest High".  It would cost money to change the logo, the stationary, the stamps, and the markings on all the books, and what not.  Schools don't get that much money.  Does it matter more that their students' classrooms have enough supplies, or do they want to waste money renaming their school?  There was also failure to mention what they wanted for the school's new name.  It's possible (even likely) that all the new name suggestions were offensive to somebody in some way.  Or, maybe they never got to that point and didn't suggest a new name at all.  Without that, can any plan for renaming realistically move forward?  No matter how evil Forrest might've been, I would probably prefer "Forrest High" over "The School Formerly Known As Forrest High, At Least Until We Can Find and Agree On A Less Offensive Name", especially if it's going to take money way from my extracurricular activities such as my tennis team, my math team, or my orchestra to rename the school.  The tennis racket I used, the violin I played, the math study book I borrowed, they all had "property of [my school's name]" clearly marked on them.  They would continue to say such a thing until they were either scratched out or replaced, none of which seemed good for the equipment.  The initial naming was all in the past, and the school probably has plenty of problems today (with the coming recession and all).  It's economically a bad time to think of renaming.  Let the people in the future who won't have as many problems deal with it.  It's been this way for half a century; it can wait until after the recession.  Today, they probably have bigger, more important issues that may change how good of a future the current generation of students are going to get.

there is usually some sort of large mural/school history in LARGE public display on campus SOMEWHERE.

In our school, there was a small bust in a glass case in the administration building where students seldom visit.  Of course, the associated plaques was definitely one-sided.  They always are.  I'm sure they dug up a ton of dirt on the guy when he tried to run for President (and failed).  When they name schools after Obama, they're going to say that he's the first black President of the United States, and they won't mention his pastor situation, the associations with his middle name, his alleged gay relationships and drug habits, and whatever else they complained about.

[ewu]

As long as we like people that look, talk and walk like us, racism will exists. It may not be racism by an individual but a societal racism. As innocent as wanting to sit with someone of the same ethnicity, it is identical to not wanting to sit with someone who is black, chicano, asian, or native american. That decision, no matter how innocent, is based on race and thus racist.

Avenue Q was right, everybody is a little racist. Now, it is the job of society to even that out, despite our personal preferances.

Will the ALCU ever say that we have full freedom of speach? Will the NRA say that we have enough rights to bear arms? For that same reasoning, I will never say that there is no more racism.

[ewu]

...and they won't mention his pastor situation, the associations with his middle name, his alleged gay relationships and drug habits, and whatever else they complained about.

You seem to imply that all of that is negative......is it?

[Nyxyin]

As long as we like people that look, talk and walk like us, racism will exists.

My point is that we wouldn't be able to tell who's "like us" or not just by looking.  Talking and walking is different, and that's more related to background than race.  Just because someone is Asian doesn't mean they speak Chinese and Japanese.  Many second generation Asians already can't tell the difference between Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc., so they can't have the same prejudices their parents did about the finer differences between Asians.  After enough interbreeding, we will merely stop being able to tell.

It may not be racism by an individual but a societal racism. As innocent as wanting to sit with someone of the same ethnicity

If most people's ethnicity becomes some percentage black, some percentage white, some percentage Hispanic, and some percentage Asian all combined, how does anyone tell if the person sitting there is the same ethnicity or not?

Avenue Q was right, everybody is a little racist.

That's because it had been rare for races to intermarry and produce crossbreeds until now.

Will the ACLU ever say that we have full freedom of speech?

If everybody became deaf, then sure, we all have the freedom to say whatever we want because nobody can tell if it's something they want to hear or not.

Will the NRA say that we have enough rights to bear arms?  For that same reasoning, I will never say that there is no more racism.

If human beings suddenly developed a freak mutation in which we are all born fully armed but utterly incapable of developing more destructive armaments, then sure.  If there is no such thing as race, there can be no such thing as racism.  As we interbreed, it will become less and less likely for people to be born with sufficient similarities between some people and sufficient differences with others to qualify as a race.  Each individual becomes his/her own race, and the idea of racial groups itself will die out.  We're very slowly but fundamentally changing the basic, tangible reality of the world to render racism utterly irrelevant.  When most of the population is checking the "Other" box, then racism will cease to exist because race will cease to exist.  Even now, race is already becoming a random artificial line that people are taught to draw in their heads.  Obama is not black.  He's half white.  The reality of Obama's racial distinctions simply does not exist, and we only think of him of black because we're been brainwashed into it.  Brainwashing tends to wear off over time as the scientific facts drift further and further away from what the brainwashing says.

[ewu]

I would appreciate if my posts were addressed as a whole instead of piecewise. My posts were intended to be viewed holistically, and as such would make replies to them shorter and more to the point.

[Nyxyin]

I would appreciate it if my point was addressed at all.  Racism will go away because, as we interbreed, race itself will disappear.  People won't be able to tell whether they're from the same race or not when people are just random percentages of the various ex-races.

[ewu]

As much as interbreeding in prevalent in the US, America is not insulated from the rest of the world. This is seen in european ethnicities in America, but the continued influx of immigrants maintains that there will be a clear delinieation between races. I am certain that the elimination of racism through interbreeding in not within the foreseeable future.

This also inspires topics such as "pure bred" descrimination and immigration policies, but I guess that's for another topic.

[Nyxyin]

Thank you for addressing my point!

The rest of the world is also not insulated from each other either.  Imperial Europeans did a good job of spreading white seeds everywhere and bringing back lots of diversity into Europe.  South America didn't seem to have the same racial problems we did, and many of them seem very highly mixed already.  For those who believe in Evolution, it can be argued that Evolution is a force for genetic diversity.  Whether people believe in the Bible or Evolution, there are no such things as purebreds because we're all from the same ancestors.  Even if purebreds do exist, it's not possible to spot a purebred vs. someone whose genes randomly all turned on in a certain pattern matching that of an ex-race.  There have been cases of biological siblings from different apparent races: See "Status: Authentic" at this link: http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_black_and_white_twins.htm

It's only physical separation that created the races.  With global travel becoming so easy and the Internet to connect people, it's only a matter of time before races are no longer distinguishable from each other.

I admit that your definition of the "foreseeable future" is very different from mine, but I think far-future certainties are much more easily foreseen than the ones in the near future.  All human beings alive today will eventually die.  That is certain and foreseeable.  The sun will also eventually die, and the earth will die with it.  I agree humans evolving beyond racial separation won't be "soon", and I hold a rather low probability that people here will live to see it personally, but it's a tiny drop in the bucket in terms of evolution.

I would also distinguish "cultural elitism" from "racism".  I can certainly foresee people discriminating against each other for speaking with certain accents or wearing certain culture-specific clothing (or symbols), but that's not strictly "racism".  "Elitism", "discrimination", and "bigotry" will exist as long as people have values they care about, but they will stop taking the form of "racism" specifically.

[ewu]

and that's why people work to combat racism....something that will have a perceivable effect in the next decade as opposed to the millenia that ethnic and racial homogeneity will take

[PyronIkari]

I would appreciate it if my point was addressed at all.  Racism will go away because, as we interbreed, race itself will disappear.  People won't be able to tell whether they're from the same race or not when people are just random percentages of the various ex-races.

This is the STUPIDEST PILE OF CRAP I HAVE EVER HEARD.

Racism will not go away merely because a lot of people are of mixed blood. First off, you act like mixed raced born children are not ever the victim of racism. Racism will still exist, you're just trying to cover it up by stating we're all the same. It will still exist. Let's say theorhetically that this retarded plan happens and the majority of the world is mixed race. Now someone that is white comes upon them... or black. Will the mixed race people not be racist towards them?

You seem to not have a clue how racism works at all. I have plenty of half friends... and they get a LOT of racism geared towards them. Try growing up in a relatively white area, when you're half asian.

For your theory to even be plausible it would take thousands upon thousands of years to happen and people would pretty much have to AIM for the idea of having mixed raced children. Do you realize how implausible this is?

Racism appears due to intolerance to something that they are not. If someone is half white and black, why wouldn't they be racist towards someone half asian half hispanic. Why would someone half-hispanic and half black not be racist towards someone that russian and middle eastern.

Your idea sounds good on paper, but is realistically SO INCREDIBLY STUPID that it makes me more than question your logic(not that this is the first... or 30th time that's happened).