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[tkdteo]

Hi all,

I know that it is right after a wondering FanimeCon, but I just wanted to see what your thoughts were on this year's Black & White Ball as well as the dance lessons and dance demos that preceded it.  I just want to hear from people how it went, what you may have really liked about it or maybe what didn't work so well.  I will try to respond with my general thoughts later on. Thanks everyone.

- Jim

[Persona]

I didn't get to go to very much of the ball or the lessons, but here are my thoughts:

-The room was too small this year. I understand that the Imperial ballroom may not have been available, but my partner and I felt that the dance floor was far too cramped.

-I really enjoyed the lessons! It was especially helpful that the more advanced lessons still went over the basic steps for the people who couldn't make the earlier basic lesson. I also appreciated the format of the lessons -- even though I went with my guy friend this year I know a lot of people did not go with a partner and the format made it easy for singles.

-This is less under staff's control and more of just a general observation, but most people who stayed on the outer edges still did not "travel" during waltzes and such. My partner and I were yelled at for not traveling even though we were desperately trying to weave through people who were staying still, and that put a bit of a damper on our night.

All in all though, I had a pretty fun time and am planning on going next year to more lessons and more of the ball. Cheers!

[mrjojoyoyo]

this was my first year at fanime and i was most excited about about the black and white ball. however, as soon as i got close to the door i noticed that the music was not that of an actual ball. as a musician and one of the few people who are still in love with ball room dancing, i was very disappointed that the dj's would classify "forget you" or any modern pop music as formal ball repertoire. i was very disappointed to hear that the music was picked by the very people who read and comment on this forum. i know that more people would rather dance to rap and pop but thats just not for this dance. if they don't like it, there is always the dances that go on every night during fanime. there are many fantastic compositions that can be waltzed to or tangoed to found in your everyday anime series' as well as video games but to dance to the pussycat dolls is just taking you to a dance no more formal than a junior prom. i was excited about this ball because like many others, i planned my attire and was expecting one of the last formal dances that the youth is willing to attend to. all in all, i was very displeased with the black and white ball. i hope next year the music will be more formal ball appropriate.

Mod edit: It's called a dance:)

[RoseNitemare]

this was my first year at fanime and i was most excited about about the black and white ball. however, as soon as i got close to the door i noticed that the music was not that of an actual ball. as a musician and one of the few people who are still in love with ball room dancing, i was very disappointed that the dj's would classify "forget you" or any modern pop music as formal ball repertoire. i was very disappointed to hear that the music was picked by the very people who read and comment on this forum. i know that more people would rather dance to rap and pop but thats just not for this dance. if they don't like it, there is always the dances that go on every night during fanime. there are many fantastic compositions that can be waltzed to or tangoed to found in your everyday anime series' as well as video games but to dance to the pussycat dolls is just taking you to a dance no more formal than a junior prom. i was excited about this ball because like many others, i planned my attire and was expecting one of the last formal dances that the youth is willing to attend to. all in all, i was very displeased with the black and white ball. i hope next year the music will be more formal ball appropriate.

I second this. I've been to the Black & White Ball before and they never played that type of music. I hate that they changed it this year, because it makes it less like a ball and more like a club or rave or something. =/

[princesskitty18]

ive been to the b&w ball for many years now and never did i have to wait in line to get in
while i understand that the ballroom was small, they only allowed ppl IN when ppl left
when i got inside i saw countless ppl just sittin there or standin on the edge, nto dancing
but because they were still in there, other ppl couldn't get in either

the problem wit being in line was retarded altho i undersatnd
if ppl wanted to take pictures they should be allowed to get back in line

the dance music was okay, altho i wish for more ballroom type music rather than modern pop
and if it had to be modern pop, please have it be anime/jpop/kpop oriented so that way its part of the overall theme

line of dance? psh..wat line of dance?
it was extremely chaotic this year and that killed it for me
the waltz is a travelling dance and my partner and i kept havin to make our waltz box smaller and smaller
while i understand that not everyone had the opportunity to take the dance lessons, therefore didnt kno the dance
to have them be towards the middle so that way there is an opportunity for the travelling dances to take place

also please try and find a bigger ballroom for next year because smaller ballroom kills

i was also wonderin if they could have more private lessons because me personally i already kno a lot of the dances, so takin the level 1 classes is kind of a waste of time\
personal lessons would help a lot...thanks

seriously tho..overall..it was still fun

[Mage of Nyo]

if ppl wanted to take pictures they should be allowed to get back in line

This. I found it completely ridiculous that if you stepped out of line to take a picture, you weren't allowed to get back in. Many people spend a lot of effort getting ready for this ball and to look nice etc. It's not fair to not let them in simply because someone wanted a picture taken.

[Yatta Dante]

I think that the music selection was perfect, and the demonstrations were great to watch as well!

Though, I agree that the room was too small.  We would either need a larger room, or a decreased limit on the number of people allowed inside at one time; preferably the first of the two.

[Alyxiane]

I was lucky to be amongst the first in line when the event started so I got in with no problem. >o<

Dance lessons were certainly fun and the highlights of my weekend! Met some spectacular people there and the little social butterfly in me had shown through. (I'm the shy nervous type when meeting new people so this is a particular feat for me.)

Am I the only one concerned that pieces of the ballroom floor tend to open and can potentially cause serious injury to anyone that happens to step onto them? This was my first B&W Ball so I don't know about the previous years and whether or not the Imperial ballroom is the same. I'm sure no one wants anyone's night to be ruined from a broken ankle or worse though so kudos to that guy fixing them while we were waiting for the demos from the staff. (To quote c2chaos in another thread, "Human Wave!")

I thought the music was fine though I wasn't too keen on the choices for some of the pop songs. (While I adored that "Gee" was playing, I found myself preferring to do the actual dance than what was intended and saw others doing the same. Fun, but not quite suited for the ball.)

And of course with increasing attendees every year, I can just wonder how even more chaotic the crowd could possibly be. Hopefully you guys will get a bigger ballroom and keeping up with the crowd control to accommodate this in the future!

Great experiences definitely outweighed the bad for me this year. I can't wait for next year.

[White Rose Assassin]

I have a few words about this year's Black and White Ball. I always look forward to any anime convention that has a ballroom dance going on. Most (west coast) anime conventions tend to be hit or miss in this area. For many years, Fanime has been on the "hits." This year was a disappointment. It was certainly not the worst.

The Hits
+ Atmosphere - tables, decoration, etc
+ Everyone was dressed very lovely. Thanks for enforcing the dress code. I was very happy this also applied to press attending the dance. (at Anime Vegas, we had press people come in flip flops and shorts, very happy that the rules at Fanime applied to everyone)
+ I did like some of the songs - Sinatra, Belafonte, etc.
+ Lots of water!
+ Safe area to store personal belongings

The Misses
+ Rovers being very rude to the press. In the past, press was allowed to surpass the line to take photos of the dance and get coverage. I'm not asking for a royal red carpet, but as a member of the press, I would like to get a thorough story and review of the actual event, not a story about waiting in line to get in. Thankfully, Brain Age Guy allowed us in.
+ Small dance floor. We had to cut our time short by an hour (11PM) to rush back to our room because of an accident. Someone had accidentally dug their heels on my foot leaving a scar and bruise. Please get a bigger room for 2012. People were accidentally running into each other.
+ Music selection. This seems to have a love / hate vibe. I loved the music from last year. There are certain top 40 songs you can certainly dance too (yes, we were waiting for a Rickroll - easy East Coast Swing right there!), but for the most part, a good majority of them felt like slow dances you'd hear at a middle school dance.
+ Too many demonstrations. I love watching the demos, but I thought there was too much of it this year. To me, it just disrupts the flow.

I've always like anime con ballroom dances where they are somewhere between a high school prom and a formal ballroom dance (ie: Gaskell, Peers, Dick Fest, etc....shame that the ONLY event we have in LA is Jareth's). Nothing too corny and nothing too structured (ie: not everyone is familiar with the line of dance). My favorites were the balls that had a happy medium of both. Fanime was able to pull this off very well in previous years.

I am confident that Fanime's Black and White Ball can be back to it's former glory. Let's get a bigger and better dance floor next year.

[michibeloved]

This was my first ball at Fanime, and although waiting in line sucked and the room was small. I had a ton of fun dancing. We were only there for about an hour, but my friend and I still really enjoyed the chance to get dressed up and just have fun dancing. 

[lilfry14]

Music was fine in my opinion; I enjoy doing a cha cha to unconventional ballroom dance songs like Another One Bites Da Funk, but not everyone seems to share that feeling, so maybe we could establish a good ratio of modern to classical songs?

There needs to be some control over the dances. If you are on the dance floor, I expect you to be doing some form of partner ballroom dancing. Instead there were people standing in a circle dancing as if it was a rave/a club. That's not so bad on slot dances, but it's not so great for the dancers on traveling dances when the dance floor is crowded. I guess that might be a bit unfair to those who don't know how to dance formally, but we have lessons for that and they are willingly attending a ball, not just a dance. I don't want to get to a point where we are all super strict and take away from the fun of the evening by being so focused on enforcing dancing standards.

Thank you to the people who broke up the congo line that started forming at one dance. Maybe we could add that to the rules? Like "no congo lines, no just jumping up and down during a dance (as it kills the dance floor and interferes with those trying to do traveling partner dances.) I'm not against having fun, but there is a rave dance every night for that type of stuff in my opinion. Maybe we can vary up the rave dance music so they can have music appropriate for congo lines?

Could we add some samba maybe? We could have samba lessons too.

With the demos, maybe limit it to one per type? I think there were two argentine tangos or maybe one was tango and one was argentine tango. I guess maybe you want to show off the difference between the two if that's the case? BUt I think I could of done with less demos.

Most important thing though is a larger floor.

Overall, I had an excellent time and it was a fantastic night, thanks again.

[Wabbit98]

this was my first year at fanime and i was most excited about about the black and white ball. however, as soon as i got close to the door i noticed that the music was not that of an actual ball. as a musician and one of the few people who are still in love with ball room dancing, i was very disappointed that the dj's would classify "forget you" or any modern pop music as formal ball repertoire. i was very disappointed to hear that the music was picked by the very people who read and comment on this forum. i know that more people would rather dance to rap and pop but thats just not for this dance. if they don't like it, there is always the raves that go on every night during fanime. there are many fantastic compositions that can be waltzed to or tangoed to found in your everyday anime series' as well as video games but to dance to the pussycat dolls is just taking you to a dance no more formal than a junior prom. i was excited about this ball because like many others, i planned my attire and was expecting one of the last formal dances that the youth is willing to attend to. all in all, i was very displeased with the black and white ball. i hope next year the music will be more formal ball appropriate.

I would just like to address a misconception about the music.  People on the Fanime forums can request music or even give us samples of what they think would be good swing, cha-cha, waltz, etc.  The staff of the Black and White Ball will listen to the suggestions.  But the playlist itself is put together by the staff, whether we use any of the suggestions posted on the forums or emailed is up to the staff of the Black and White Ball.  The people on the forums do not pick the music for the Ball, they can make suggestions.  But in the end it is the staff of the Black and White Ball that puts together the playlist.

Thank you,
Kevin

[Nina Star 9]

Pros:
- Despite the smaller room, you guys seemed to make do pretty well with a good ratio of dance floor to tables, and with the atmosphere, etc.
- Plenty of water!! There seems to be more and more every year, which is great.
- Posting the playlist online afterwards. Love that!!

Cons:
- The music. I know that some people liked it, but there was too much modern pop music for my tastes, and it gave the ball more of a club feeling. It didn't help that it was nearly impossible to hear the music aside from a bassline over everyone talking. All the sound in that room just sort of greyed out to an indistinct roar, and it made it really hard to dance without hearing the beat. (Also, personal gripe, but you removed Tank! last year and Waltz for Zizi this year? D: Those have been played at every ball! I did love the use of the Menchi theme from Excel Saga, though, I'll give you props for that. )
- Again, the room size. I had to wait a long time in line, then wait a long time for my friends to get there, and when they finally did, we hardly even danced because the room was so packed that we couldn't move without crashing into someone. Even later on in the night (I left ~11:30), the floor was still totally packed. I don't mind standing in a long line if I can actually dance when I get to the end of the line. This was the biggest ball-killer for me this year, and this was the first year that I've left early. I understand that it was out of your hands, but maybe if there is a smaller room, let in fewer people so there is space between them? (You also can't control people not following the line of dance, which was a problem as well, but a less densely packed room would help with this because those not following it would at least have a cushion of space around them) I'm hoping for the bigger ballroom next year, or maybe an even bigger one, if there is one available.
- Someone mentioned the floor opening up, and while I didn't personally have any problems (unlike another year where the floor opened up and my heel got stuck in it in the middle of a dance), it's still a problem.


Overall, the ball is always fun, but this was probably the worst year for me since moving to the Fairmont.

[phantasmagoricRS]

I was disappointed by the B&W ball this year.  It had the feel of a high school dance rather than a real formal ball.  I think this is mainly due to poor choice in music.  Every year before now that I've attended the ball, I was refreshed by the formality.  You don't get that many other places these days.  But the overabundance of mainstream pop really irked me.  Though there were songs I did enjoy, the majority were definitely not what I would expect from a formal ball which demands formal attire and formal ballroom dancing.
Actually, I noticed that during the demos, the dress code was sometimes not followed.  I was really disappointed by that.  I did enjoy watching the demos, though I think they took too much time.
I did have some problems with the dance floor.  It came apart even after it was fixed and my heel kept getting stuck in it.  The smaller room was definitely a disappointment, especially since it made the line wrap around the outside of the building.  Actually, it was pretty difficult to move around with the cramped room.  My partner and I had to use less and less space while dancing.
There should be a bit more lenience towards people needing to use the restroom during the ball.  They really should not be asked to go and wait in line again.  Who can help but need to go sometime during a six hour period?  Especially while drinking water.  Or on their period, because that really can't be helped.
I appreciated the staff member listening to a group of us tell him of our concerns over the dance.  I really hope that next year will be a lot better.

[le_momo]

I was disappointed by the B&W ball this year.  It had the feel of a high school dance rather than a real formal ball.  I think this is mainly due to poor choice in music.  Every year before now that I've attended the ball, I was refreshed by the formality.  You don't get that many other places these days.  But the overabundance of mainstream pop really irked me.  Though there were songs I did enjoy, the majority were definitely not what I would expect from a formal ball which demands formal attire and formal ballroom dancing.

Compared to last year, this years' ball had much less mainstream pop music, in my opinion. Comparing the two (as I have the playlist for both years), it would seem that last year should be the one getting more complaints than this year, though I guess it's just a matter of opinion. As Kevin had mentioned, we receive a lot of requests for music so we can have the opportunity to play what the majority of attendees would like, though the staff gets the final word in what gets played. We also put in a song or two from the guests of honor if we can, but this year seemed to have much more ballroom music than last year.

Actually, I noticed that during the demos, the dress code was sometimes not followed.  I was really disappointed by that.  I did enjoy watching the demos, though I think they took too much time.

For some of the demos, costumes were a necessity to get a different feeling in the performance. And though they did take up some time, the additional hour we had for dancing allowed us to have that third time slot for the demonstrations. This gave an opportunity for those who had been on the floor most of the night to actually have a break and hydrate, which was rather important by itself. Each demo time slot we had, the wonderful gentleman who belonged to the company we got our dance floor from was fixing the floor as much as he could. The second demo slot would have been much shorter, yes, but safety for attendees was a priority at that point in time.

Thanks for your input!
- Rebecca

[Wabbit98]

Welcome to the forums Rebecca.  Nice to get another staffers viewpoint.

In terms of the floor, we did take that break besides for the demos (which would have been a shorter break if the floor held together) for the safety of all dancers.  We kept a close eye on the condition of the floor of the rest of the night.

It is hit and miss with the music, even for ballroom dance places they play more modern music as well.  Even the classic ball music was new at point in its life.  We did not just play requests that were made on the forum.  It is hard to say exactly what the percentage was, if any, that we incorperate from the forum.

Yes if a Guest of Honor, or a staff member wants a particular song we work to incorperate that as best we can.  Also if the Chair wants to dance to a song we will also include that if possible.  Those type of songs are genrally towards the evening.

In terms of the line and the crowd in the room.  With the Masquerade going on at the same time we did not know if we would get as many people as we did last year.  Since a lot of people who attend the Ball also go to the Masquerade.  Obviously we were wrong.  Though we did get a smaller froom from the Fairmont which did not help matters.  Though the larger room at the Fairmont might have held about 300 more people, which wouldn't have gotten rid of the entire line.

Line of dance, we did mention it throughout the night.  But it would have been impossible to really enforce it.  With that many people on the floor and even if they all went in the line of dance and all that there would not have been a lot of room to move around on the dance floor.

These comments relfect my own opinions and how I saw things.

Thank you,
Kevin

[lil_koala]

This year's Black and White Ball actually went by a lot faster but I think that's mainly because I was part of staff this year. It was certainly tiring but fun nonetheless. I enjoyed working with everyone and teaching at some of the lessons.

I thought the decorations were really nice and the sound quality was pretty good for the most part. I'm glad that the water issue from the previous years has been addressed. Overall the demonstrations were great but perhaps we need a preview of each demo to see which ones we can cut if we have repeats.

We definitely need a bigger room for the black and white ball next year. At this rate, even the Imperial Ballroom will not be big enough. It's really hard to emphasize line of dance when there's no room for a line of dance. I hope that Parkside will be a good location for next year but we'll definitely need to plan more for decorations and to check the sound systems.

From the looks of the forum feedback, the music playlist wasn't a hit with everyone. I thought it was ok but I guess we need to focus more on ballroom music to give that classic feel people are looking for. It's actually incredibly hard to find ballroom anime music especially when all the requests in the forum are actually just Viennese waltzes. As for not having pop music, we can limit them but actually a lot of social dance parties incorporate a few nowadays.

The dress code was better enforced this year but I think ladies shoes are still an issue. We might need to post up pictures next year so that we're a bit more clear. I saw stilettos and shoes without straps to hold them in. I think we'll also need to have a meeting before the doors open to have consistence between everyone who has door duty.

And lastly, I thought the dance lessons were great! I was so happy to see so many people attending the lessons and even signing up for private lessons. I loved the use of the mic because it made it easier for everyone to hear the instructors. However, I think we'll need to discuss with the instructors to make sure everyone uses the same names for the steps because each of us learned from different syllabi so I hope we didn't confuse anyone. Although this didn't happen often, I didn't appreciate people talking on the side or over the instructor's voice. We also need more lessons in foxtrot, as we only had one, if we'll do a foxtrot mixer again. I don't know how popular merengue/argentine tango is but I really think we should teach samba next year instead.

I believe that is all for my feedback. I thoroughly enjoyed being part of the b&w ball staff this year and I hope that my schedule will allow for me to return next year.

[Okach]

Just a few fast observations before I collapse back into bed:

Having a smaller room increases the high-school dance feel because the acoustics increase crowd noise.  We probably had the same generated volume last year in the Imperial Ballroom but it was possible to have some hushed areas precisely because it was a large room.  I noticed based on looking on last year's comments that there weren't as many 'formal feel' objections and the playlist last year had more mainstream pop.

As for the intent of the Ball, my impression from previous years as an attendee/staff to this and similar, late lamented Balls (i.e. AX Masq Ball) was that the Ball provided a venue to expose varied styles of partner dancing to the con at large as well as a more formal atmosphere than other dances at FanimeCon.  This in turn means that the music should also be varied. Ergo, it's not going to appeal to everyone all the time.

For those people in this thread who have complained about the lack thereof of formal ballroom music in the playlist I ask of you two sets of questions:
 
1)  What constitutes ballroom music for you specifically?  Is it music that you can actually perform International Standard/Latin to?  Or are you bemoaning more that there's actually pop music in the playlist?  What about dances which are not considered part of Standard/Latin, i.e. Salsa/WCS/NC2S?  Would music that you could dance those particular dances to be also considered ballroom music?
2)   What proportion of ballroom music as determined by 1) would therefore satisfy your desires?        

Your feedback in this is duly appreciated.

[SOawesomeness]

I'd just like to suggest maybe having the dance lessons somewhere nearer to the convention? Or was it mandatory to have it at the Fairmont because of the hardwood floor? It was super cold and walking over there when I know that I had to leave a busy Registration kinda made me sad. o: The fairmont is farrr. >>;; And when I went, there were only... maybe 20 people who were at the lessons so... that kind of space didn't seem too necessary.

(though maybe it was the distance or lack of schedules that made the attendance kind of sparse...)

Err annnywayssss, maybe just have a staff-only after hours lessons (or if there were some, announce it in an e-mail during a meeting)? I disliked having to leave Reg Friday, Saturday, or Sunday to attend dance lessons. o:

[Nina Star 9]

I think that my complaint about the type of music is more about the fact that I couldn't -hear- the music aside from a bassline. Modern pop music and "classic" ballroom songs sound pretty much the same when they are obscured by crowd noise, and when you can hear only a bassline, the pop music tends to stand out.