The con is ruining our fun!

Started by PyronIkari, May 29, 2008, 09:46:36 PM

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Pika1979

Quote
Not to sound like an old jaded man, but why would you give out hugs to complete random strangers that you do not know, just because they're holding a sign? If you were walking around on the street and a guy was holding a "hug me" sign... would you hug him? Frankly, a con isn't much different, you can't really trust people just because they "LOLOLOL LIKE ANIMU".

Well First off I feel that people like giving hugs to people who cosplay as their favorite person. Kinda like little kids at Disney Land.
Second there has been a whole thing about this all ready. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr3x_RRJdd4 It took a petition for free hugs to be OK.

Jun-Watarase

Quote from: Pika1979 on May 31, 2008, 04:57:12 PM
Quote
Not to sound like an old jaded man, but why would you give out hugs to complete random strangers that you do not know, just because they're holding a sign? If you were walking around on the street and a guy was holding a "hug me" sign... would you hug him? Frankly, a con isn't much different, you can't really trust people just because they "LOLOLOL LIKE ANIMU".

Well First off I feel that people like giving hugs to people who cosplay as their favorite person. Kinda like little kids at Disney Land.
Second there has been a whole thing about this all ready. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr3x_RRJdd4 It took a petition for free hugs to be OK.

Pffft, come on. You did NOT just compare cosplaying to being a mascot at Disneyland. For one thing, cosplayers generally cosplay wearing carefully constructed costumes to express their love for the character, aesthetically. Parts of their costumes may be delicate, that would easily be damaged if someone impacted them with a hug. Mascots a Disneyland are there to be MASCOTS, to provide enjoyment to the amusement parks' patrons and letting kids jump all over them and all that crap. Cosplayers don't serve entertainment the way mascots do.

No one implied that hugs aren't okay, but no one should get upset when the people they're asking says no. If I were on the street with that guy in that bawwwtastic video you just posted, I don't mind giving him a hug. I'm not losing anything from it, he might be gaining for it-- who cares. But people make it a problem at conventions, whereas they'd go to such extreme lengths as to follow people around and harass them to get a hug. Last year, there was a guy holding a "Glomp me" sign who FOLLOWED ME TO THE BATHROOM to get a hug out of me. No, just no.

I would like to think that most people our age would have the tact as to not go crazy when they see someone cosplaying a character they like, so much as to run up and glomp them without warning or permission, but it's been proven that many people find it okay to be below that. There's no harm in any of this is all of them asked and respected people's space. Without that, they're a potential risk to said cosplayers falling to injury or damage to their cosplays that they spend time, money, and effort making.

This year, I cosplayed as a character that somehow closely resembled Rei Ayanami to certain Eva fans. I was glomped, tackled, screamed at, hugged from behind (while wearing wings) and I even had people hit me with pokeballs. Seriously, wtf? I'd pass by convention halls, tired from work, having people stand in my way and ask "Hey!!! CAN I GET A HUG!? =D!!" and if I said "No, it's kind of hard to hug people with my wings on." I'd get pouty faces, people asking me to try, and even ask if I could take my wings off. My wings were attached with strong wire latched onto a steel-plated harness under my clothing. I'm not going to go through the effort of taking off my harness to hug someone I don't even know. But if I were under the circumstances where I actually felt like I didn't mind hugging someone, I couldn't care less. It's just a hug. But too many people push it further than just that.

So it isn't the hugs themselves people are against. It's the stupid idiotic behavior people have making it a problem. Have some tact, some respect, and a little more of that common sense-- then, most scenarios turn out fine.

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DivineChaos

Hm, I was wondering why there were so few "Glomp Me!" signs being worn by people.  Just out of curiosity, and because I didn't get to witness it firsthand, did any of the staff ask for the removal of such signs when they came across them?  Because if they did, I didn't notice at all; to me, it just seemed like everyone had just agreed to not wear the signs to the con. 

And here I was about to thank everyone for being mature enough to all decide not to bring signs. 

Kiddingbut not really =P

Kaura117

Quote from: PyronIkari on May 31, 2008, 03:49:00 PM
Quote from: Ayanami Rei First Child on May 31, 2008, 03:40:56 PM
Your reasoning makes them both guilty of the same crime, but that the Logo is okay, because it's less...severe or whatever. They are BOTH solicitation, but apparently hand-writing your solicitation, is evil, but having it as a Logo is okay, because it's not as blatant or something.

That honestly doesn't make you all seem any less evil. ^^; It just made it sound worse. <.<;

I'm not trying to be a jackass, but at the other hand, if I'm being banned from doing something I want to understand why it's for my benefit. So far with the t-shirt it isn't happening...

You totally misread what I said. A T-Shirt is a piece of clothing, or apparel. It has no actual bearing on the wearer, how he thinks, how he feels, or anything like that.  However, a HANDMADE shirt means that he put in the effort to display something that HE WANTED displayed.  Otherwise people would be hit for sexual harassment or for impersonating staff/police etc. Wearing a T-shirt does not mean anything... writing a message on a t-shirt does.

Here's a better example... If I wear a "Kiss me I'm Irish" shirt, no one will take it seriously, run up to me and kiss me. Because it's obviously just a shirt I'm wearing, and it's not like I want/expect people to do that just because I am wearing that shirt. However... if I carry around a sign that says it... Then I AM soliciting because I clearly want people to do it, and have made it apparent I want people to do it by advertising. The same thing with MAKING your own shirt. It's clearly advertising it because you created the shirt with that sole purpose. Purchasing a shirt does not carry that same connotation. People can USE it in that sense, but for the most part, it's still viewed and carried very differently.

Again, refer back to the "kiss me I'm Irish shirt". People might try and use it in that way, but it won't be seen as solicitation or anything, more like an idiot pointing to his shirt.

Too presumptive, Pyron. The first immediate problem is that a handmade shirt's message does not carry any more weight than that of a commercially manufactured shirt- in both cases, the wearer is clearly aware of the message printed, and in the case of the homemade shirt, there is no guarantee that it wasn't, say, a present from an acquaintance. The message on the shirt would therefore not necessarily have been made by the user.

PyronIkari

Quote from: Kaura117 on May 31, 2008, 07:43:38 PM

Too presumptive, Pyron. The first immediate problem is that a handmade shirt's message does not carry any more weight than that of a commercially manufactured shirt- in both cases, the wearer is clearly aware of the message printed, and in the case of the homemade shirt, there is no guarantee that it wasn't, say, a present from an acquaintance. The message on the shirt would therefore not necessarily have been made by the user.

In a court case disputing actualities of evidence... yes... In the real world of logic and basic understandings and assumptions... no.

"Here's a cookie I baked for you" "Here's a cookie I bought from starbucks". Which one displays more effort and meaning behind it?

According to a court of law, they are equal because the gift was given and the intention is provided in both. In real world mechanics, taking the effort and time to create something has more bearing.

If it was a gift, that's a grey area... but frankly... who in god damned hell is going to write "GLOMP ME" on a t-shirt and be like "HERE MAN I MADE THIS FOR YOU". It's just stupid in so many different ways.

edendreams

It all boils down to respect for other people. Honestly people are going to have differences opinions on the subject but when you really think of the benefits to glomp me signs... there isn't any. There's nothing productive from them and they cause problems.

I never hugged someone at the con without my arms out inviting. I let that person chose if they wanted to receive it. That is how it should be conducted!  I mena i do understand the point about the mascots of disneyland because they have security that protect against improper conduct but it's a convention of regular people who probably can't have security follow them around to protect their costumes. So it has to come down to be respectful of others and things they made.

I hope i made sense...

a little art by me ^-^

weirderraindrop


Kaura117

Quote from: PyronIkari on May 31, 2008, 09:01:57 PM
Quote from: Kaura117 on May 31, 2008, 07:43:38 PM

Too presumptive, Pyron. The first immediate problem is that a handmade shirt's message does not carry any more weight than that of a commercially manufactured shirt- in both cases, the wearer is clearly aware of the message printed, and in the case of the homemade shirt, there is no guarantee that it wasn't, say, a present from an acquaintance. The message on the shirt would therefore not necessarily have been made by the user.

In a court case disputing actualities of evidence... yes... In the real world of logic and basic understandings and assumptions... no.

"Here's a cookie I baked for you" "Here's a cookie I bought from starbucks". Which one displays more effort and meaning behind it?

According to a court of law, they are equal because the gift was given and the intention is provided in both. In real world mechanics, taking the effort and time to create something has more bearing.

If it was a gift, that's a grey area... but frankly... who in god damned hell is going to write "GLOMP ME" on a t-shirt and be like "HERE MAN I MADE THIS FOR YOU". It's just stupid in so many different ways.

A cookie given is a cookie given. There's still a similar message being carried across in the delivery alone. The intensity of it is debatable at any rate- especially given how much starbucks cookies cost, and especially given the quality of the some of the so-called home-made cookies I've had the misfortune to ingest.

Besides, we are talking the legal ramifications concerning hug/glomp me signs, no? Your earlier argument pretty much does hinge on the effective difference between a store-bought "hug me" and homemade "hug me" sign in terms of, I believe, the convention's accountability. It still says "hug me," thus the so-called "real world of logic and basic understandings and assumptions" would still conclude it to be an open invitation towards physical contact. You'd need a court case disputing the actualities of evidence to argue otherwise.

PyronIkari

Not really, different people were arguing different points. I was addressing the points seperately.

One was about the defenition of solicitation, one was about the cons reasoning and merit/weight of different kinds of things.

The staff does follow the law, but not all rules are based solely on the legal ramifications and status. A lot of it is done within reason.

Again, if what you say were true, if I wore a shirt with something along the lines of picking up a girl... I could be sued for sexual harassment. The shirt makes an implication of sexual activity, and a girl sees the shirt. By your logical reasoning I am making an advance towards that girl because of the shirt I am wearing. The major difference is that, I am not wearing that shirt with that purpose. However someone putting in the effort to create that same shirt by hand, would have it. The reasons being is that they took the effort to display that message exactly how they wanted it to be displayed.

We can further push this by examining the environment in which things are taken place.

End of it is... it's the cons rules and they will judge how they seem fit. We all understand the basis of the rules, instead of bitching and whining about "ways to side step the rules" or "trying to find out ways to bypass rules yourself"... just, I dunno, TRY FOLLOWING THEM?

Kaura117

But as the post you first replied to showed, the rules themselves aren't necessarily cut-and-dried affairs, nor do they always make sense. In fact, when there appears to be some arguably unethical commercial interest involved, it's only reasonable to expect some resentment.

It's in the best interest for both the convention staff and congoers to come to a written consensus on the rules- it's not in the best interest of either party to simply expect the others to follow a vague or even unwritten agreement, especially if the issue at hand as legal repercussions.

PyronIkari

They pretty are simple, it's just that you(and others) are trying to complicate things. Don't make "Glomp me" signs or other stuff.

What is complicated about this?

Lacunacraft

Quote from: PyronIkari on June 01, 2008, 07:58:57 PM
They pretty are simple, it's just that you(and others) are trying to complicate things. Don't make "Glomp me" signs or other stuff.

What is complicated about this?

There is nothing complicated at all about this. It is just that people will always find ways of bending the rules and creating technicalities that allow them to continue to do what they want to do. I wish it was possible to come to some kind of consensus, but that would require polling everyone at fanimecon and that is not possible.

As other have said, the rules sometimes aren't exactly enforced as strictly as they should be and there is wiggle room sometimes. I think it is partially on the staff to come up with truly concrete rules about what is and isn't allowed. I know they already exist, but the staff sometimes let things slide and the volunteers sometimes don't know the rules exactly. so, you can't really rely on them too much because they aren't given enough time to really memorize and know the rules.

I honestly don't see this debate ever really ending as it all depends on people's point of view.
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Steve.Young

Good luck getting enough staff to catch everything that goes on at the con.

It's like saying, here's a police force of 50 people (Not all of them work at the same time, we have shifts, base people, etc), go find all the evildoers in a crowded area of 20,000 people.

Not enough staff? Hi volunteers, do this. "UHM?"...says the confused volunteer.

It's not exactly rocket science to figure out, that rules sometimes are hard to enforce given that we are all volunteers (Staff don't get paid) and it's a volunteer based organization where we try to do everything that everyone expects but don't get any credit for things that go right, only things that go wrong.

Shit happens, get over it. Stop abusing things, and you won't have rules made in the first place. You abuse it, you lose it. Some people really just ruin it for the rest of the people.
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narutofan17

Quote from: PyronIkari on May 29, 2008, 10:37:20 PM
Quote from: Nyxyin on May 29, 2008, 10:27:31 PM
What are they talking about?  I didn't see anything at all about glomp signs and such being banned at Fanime?  At least, they're no more banned this year than previous years.  I saw "no running" in the code of conduct thing, which prevents people from glomping, and there's still "no [disorderly conduct such as] soliciting", but I'm pretty sure I've seen both those rules in previous years.  As far as I can tell, there is nothing new in the rules.  I think the only difference is that the code of conduct appeared on signs around the convention rather than just being in the program book.


For those that don't understand.

Solicitation is the act of offering services/goods or trying to get services/goods.

A "glomp me" sign is sollicitation.
Are we seriously back on this again? I had a glomp sign on and nothing happened to me (my friend on the other hand stopped by one of the staff which wasn't right) Call it solicitation if you want. You don't have glomp the person if you don't want to. It's not like the sign says glomp me or else. That's why I had my sign. So people knew they had permission to glomp me.
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PyronIkari

Quote from: narutofan17 on June 02, 2008, 02:04:39 AM
Quote from: PyronIkari on May 29, 2008, 10:37:20 PM
Quote from: Nyxyin on May 29, 2008, 10:27:31 PM
What are they talking about?  I didn't see anything at all about glomp signs and such being banned at Fanime?  At least, they're no more banned this year than previous years.  I saw "no running" in the code of conduct thing, which prevents people from glomping, and there's still "no [disorderly conduct such as] soliciting", but I'm pretty sure I've seen both those rules in previous years.  As far as I can tell, there is nothing new in the rules.  I think the only difference is that the code of conduct appeared on signs around the convention rather than just being in the program book.


For those that don't understand.

Solicitation is the act of offering services/goods or trying to get services/goods.

A "glomp me" sign is sollicitation.
Are we seriously back on this again? I had a glomp sign on and nothing happened to me (my friend on the other hand stopped by one of the staff which wasn't right) Call it solicitation if you want. You don't have glomp the person if you don't want to. It's not like the sign says glomp me or else. That's why I had my sign. So people knew they had permission to glomp me.

Or in other words... "Hi... I'm stupid and I don't understand words or what they mean. So I will say what I think they mean despite being completely wrong"

You don't have to do what a solicitor asks... it doesn't change that it's solicitation. "LOLOLOL Prostitutes don't FORCE YOU to sleep with them, so what they are doing is okay".

narutofan17

Quote from: PyronIkari on June 02, 2008, 02:20:09 AM
Quote from: narutofan17 on June 02, 2008, 02:04:39 AM
Quote from: PyronIkari on May 29, 2008, 10:37:20 PM
Quote from: Nyxyin on May 29, 2008, 10:27:31 PM
What are they talking about?  I didn't see anything at all about glomp signs and such being banned at Fanime?  At least, they're no more banned this year than previous years.  I saw "no running" in the code of conduct thing, which prevents people from glomping, and there's still "no [disorderly conduct such as] soliciting", but I'm pretty sure I've seen both those rules in previous years.  As far as I can tell, there is nothing new in the rules.  I think the only difference is that the code of conduct appeared on signs around the convention rather than just being in the program book.


For those that don't understand.

Solicitation is the act of offering services/goods or trying to get services/goods.

A "glomp me" sign is sollicitation.
Are we seriously back on this again? I had a glomp sign on and nothing happened to me (my friend on the other hand stopped by one of the staff which wasn't right) Call it solicitation if you want. You don't have glomp the person if you don't want to. It's not like the sign says glomp me or else. That's why I had my sign. So people knew they had permission to glomp me.

Or in other words... "Hi... I'm stupid and I don't understand words or what they mean. So I will say what I think they mean despite being completely wrong"

You don't have to do what a solicitor asks... it doesn't change that it's solicitation. "LOLOLOL Prostitutes don't FORCE YOU to sleep with them, so what they are doing is okay".
Point being. You can get rid of the signs but you can get rid of glomping. It's still going to take place no matter how much you rant about it.
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PyronIkari

Dumbass... when did I ever say I wanted to get rid of it completely? When did I ever state that it would?

THank you... now please stop making such retarded posts.

narutofan17

Ok I'll be the bigger man and stop. But to answer your question it you get rid of the signs then people glomp blindly. One random incident happens and BOOM it's banned completely. Call me stupid if you want to. I could care less. I say the signs will help people know who wants to be glomped. I'll leave the topic alone. I know I can at least.
Tsunade! Where are you?!! I promise I don't bite.


Fanime 2010 Costume:
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King Dedede
Kenpachi
Arlong
BLACK JIRAIYA!!!!!

Xeluu

Quote from: narutofan17 on June 02, 2008, 03:17:24 AM
...get rid of the signs then people glomp blindly. ...
Actually, I found this year there was less random glomping. >_> Dunno if that's to be attributed to the lack of signs or not, but I personally found it better this year.
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narutofan17

Quote from: Xeluu on June 02, 2008, 03:43:40 AM
Quote from: narutofan17 on June 02, 2008, 03:17:24 AM
...get rid of the signs then people glomp blindly. ...
Actually, I found this year there was less random glomping. >_> Dunno if that's to be attributed to the lack of signs or not, but I personally found it better this year.
Probably because people are afraid of someone calling the cops on them.
Tsunade! Where are you?!! I promise I don't bite.


Fanime 2010 Costume:
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King Dedede
Kenpachi
Arlong
BLACK JIRAIYA!!!!!