Cosplaying, weird?

[DivineChaos]

First, let me say that this may be disregarded as a rant, but, at the same time, I believe that the argument is justified, but valid as well.

The thinking began as soon as I went to the McDonald's somewhere around midnight-ish.  What happened was, after leaving Hydration, my group and I decided to head to McDonald's to get food for one of our friends.  We found that the front door was closed, and then went to the side door, nearby the parking lot.  There was a group that was there, obviously not part of the festivities also known as Fanime.  Along with a few others that were trying to get into McDonald's (to no avail), we were somewhat made fun of for our clothes.  The jeering rhetorical statement that runs through my mind still is "Hey what cartoon are you guys from!?", followed by laughter and further indiscernable words.  Of course, everyone in my group and the other cosplayers ignored it, and we headed back to the con.

This was not at all my worry, nothing I got heated about at all.  But this event got me thinking about something.

What exactly is it that makes cosplay strange?  Why is it even considered a different realm than other types of dress?

Think about it, there is absolutely no reason that it should be seen as strange.  There is no difference between cosplay and "regular" types of dress, except that cosplay requires more time, energy, effort, and money.  Cosplay are taken from anime, games, movies, and manga.  "Regular", so-called street clothes, are taken from MTV, action flicks, or other random T.V. shows.  THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.  So why is it that one receives less criticism than the other?  Is it merely because one comes from a cartoon?  Oh, music videos and hour long TV shows are not fictional at all, so we should follow that as the norm. 

This double-standard is a type of clothing discrimination, and as such we should be able to wear what we want.  This isn't to say we can go walking around with offensive clothing, but in what way does cosplay merit such jeering.  I propose a day be established by all the cosplayers all around, not Halloween (It would be insulting to compare cosplay and Halloween costumes), but a different day, a day that would slowly allow cosplay to be incorporated into society until there is less discrimination such as shown in the account given early.  Cosplay should be established as a more acceptable type of clothing.  Or even a place in our respective countries where people can cosplay on a daily basis, such a thing would be brilliant and visionary.

Once again, Japan is ahead of the curve.  They do not have widespread cosplay in everyday life, but they do have large areas where it is not only acceptable, but normal for cosplay or new types of dress to occur.  This is known as the Harajuku district.  And because of this one place, cosplay has spread across not only Japan, but the world as a whole, with countries containing vectors of people that create elaborate costumes. 

But the next step for incorporation after the introduction is acceptance.  This is where we are at now. 

I say all this not to rant, but to give you all food for thought.  Think about it.  And remember, it's criminal for people to mock and ridicule you for your dress.  Next time someone asks what cartoon you're from and laughs, remember that though they don't know it, they are sheep that have followed the norm shown on Television through music videos, movies, and other mundane things.

Read this, and consider thinking about ways of integrating this cultural phenomena into your area.  One area did it for Japan.  Hundreds of places together?  You figure out what it could do.

[BrightHeart76]

Hmm.  Well in my opnion it has a lot to do with what is accepted by the general population as "normal".  This is something that changes all the time.  When I was a kid it was normal for my teachers to have HUGE '80s hair and Giant shoulderpads in a dress that was black and white polka dot.  If someone was to wear that now, it would raise some questions.

In our society it is normal to wear the clothes that are the current style, and the current style is reflected in popular media like MTV and magazines.  When we divert from the normal by dressing in clothes that are designed to identify an individual character (i.e. easily identified style, colors or fabrics) it draws attention to us.  Sometimes people ignore you.  Sometimes people ask questions.  Sometimes they ridicule you. 

I try to view the ridicule as people who are just uncomfortable with the fact that I'm dressed differently.  I've had decent success answering the questions of people who ask "what cartoon are you from".  The tone they ask the question in often seems mocking, but in my experience the people have been satified if not interested with the answers. 

I'm sure I could probably state my opinions better, but I'm tired.  I'll reread this tomorrow and see if I can make my point clearer.

[PyronIkari]

First off, cosplaying is not "normal" in Japan. I'm guessing you've never been to Harajuku, or anything like that.

It's not a double standard. Cosplayers are doing something abnormal. When people do abnormal things... People get weirded out by it.  What do you expect? Even in Japan it's abornal. The difference is Japanese culture teaches you to not get involved in, look, or even acknowledge anything that is anormal or directly involves you.

People dressing up as characters. HEY think about it this way. If you came home, and your dad was dressed up as Captain America, and your mom was dressed up as Dawn from Cry For Dawn... would you just be like "hey mom, hey dad" and act as if nothing was the least bit awkward?

Why is it awkward? Because it's extreme and flashy. Not just cosplay... but anyone in extreme or flashy clothes of any kind are looked at as if they're awkward. You've never looked at someone and said "what the hell is that person wearing?"

This thread seems to come down to "I do something strange, why do people look at me as if I'm strange." If someone was wearing pants with only one leg, one army boot, one sandal, a shiny blue shirt, and had an afro, are you stating that you wouldn't feel as if it was strange? Accepting of it, yeah, but you would still think it was strange. The difference is, you'd probably keep it to yourself.

[Jun-Watarase]

I really hope this doesn't become a string of people saying things like, "We're not normal. No one understands us." Thankfully, that hasn't happened yet. But for one thing, cosplay isn't normal. It's a hobby, apart from normal. What is cosplay? It's an activity where people wear costumes of characters in expression of their love for said character. It isn't something you see being done very often.

Since it isn't something you see everyday, and because it's something very conspicuous, you're going to be noticed, whether it be positive or negative attention. People tend to challenge things/people that seem strange and unusual to them-- how they react to them is dependent on the individual. Cartoons aren't taken seriously in American society. Most people wouldn't take you seriously if you cosplay something cartoon-y.

As for your reference to people emulating styles on MTV... that's a poor example. Fashion is a common thing-- fashions portrayed that way are MEANT to be worn in everyday fashion. That's what fashion is. Fashions portrayed in most television shows are realistic, while clothing in cartoons tend not to be. At most, they're caricatures of what is realistic. Cartoons don't revolve their character designs completely around normal fashion, most of the time. They're meant to be whimsical and unrealistic, unless they choose to make it realistic.

And your reference to Japan's Harajuku... Are you implying that the Japanese don't find it unusual? Unlike what most people in America believe, Japan's demographic doesn't solely consist of otaku, visual-kei fans, and gravure models. In fact, they're the minority. It may be more widely-practiced in Japan in comparison to America, but their views on it are taken differently WITHIN the cosplaying communities as well. If anything, Japanese cosplayers would laugh at the majority of half-assed American cosplayers, because even COSPLAYERS THEMSELVES might not take it seriously, either. Cosplay is an expression, for their love of the fandom. It may be interpreted differently depending on the person. But, even in Japan, the majority of "normal people" would find cosplayers strange. Why? Because they're playing as cartoon characters. That's what the hobby is. That's why it's considered strange and isn't taken as seriously by those outside of the fandom.

People who understand the basis of cosplay understand why it is done, but it doesn't make it any less strange. Normal people compare it to Halloween (as insulting as it may be for those who understand cosplay) because Halloween is the only time they can connect wearing a costume around with. Think about Halloween for a sec... are the people wearing costumes around being taken seriously? Well, that's their limited view on things-- it's how people connect two similar things together and relate them in a way they understand. It's that simple, really.

[DivineChaos]

I'm not sure exactly how to address this, as it seems to go in both directions, but I will try to do so to the best of my ability.

First, it does have a lot to do with public opinion, and that is the reason I put forth my ideas.  I want to make it so that it is considered normal for people to do.  That people see it and say "Wow, those are nice costumes", rather than "What the hell are they doing?  Stupid nerds."  

I also want people to not be satisfied with the status quo of cosplay being strange.  We need to destroy that idea, so that people will stand together in order to make everything work.  The quote "United we stand, divided we fall" holds here, because in order to make things happen, all of us need to make this happen.  

First, before I say anything to either to you, I just want to establish something:

Are you two actually arguing that cosplayers should be made fun of because it is not popularly held in society?  Because going against the idea that it should be more widely accepted leads to the automatic support that it should be put down.  I don't want a constitutional ammendment, I don't want to change the world in some major way, I don't want a march on Washington, I just want people to know and acknowledge cosplayers in a more positive light.  I do not see why there would be reason to argue against it unless you were satisfied with the mockery cosplayers have to put up with.

Weeewwwww.... onto Pyron (Hey there again.  I hear the glomp me thing went well.  Oh, and as you know, no offensive meant through any of my words.)

I did not say that it was normal in Japan, but I suggested that it was normal to view people there that dress up and whatnot.  If it says anything different, I apologize. 

HEY think about it this way. If you came home, and your dad was dressed up as Captain America, and your mom was dressed up as Dawn from Cry For Dawn... would you just be like "hey mom, hey dad" and act as if nothing was the least bit awkward?

It would be slightly awkward, I admit that.  But making it so everyone does that is not the point I'm trying to prove.  I think what you two have read is different from what it actually means.  I want acceptance to the point of people not making fun of it.  I want interest, not mockery.  This scenario does not apply because we can't completely wash away awkwardness, but we CAN stem rudeness. 

It is no longer awkward with those familiar with cons, and I want that to move out towards what can be called the "Real World" for all intensive purposes.  It's a simple enough solution.  Expose people to something enough and then they will be dulled to it. 

Jeans were once unnacceptable in America.  If you wore it once you were passsed the age of 13 you were ridiculous, but now look at us.  More than three quarters of America wears them, men AND women.  Can't we move this on to cosplay?

[puyo_pop]

As much as I share your view about wanting to be able to cosplay and have people be open minded to it, I'd have to say it's true that cosplay is strange.  Not that strange is a bad thing, but it is strange because it's not what people do on a daily basis.  I think a lot of the time people ridicule and laugh because they're not exposed to it and don't understand it.  I can understand that, but at the same time I'm almost as puzzled as you are.  Like this one time my friend dressed up for school, and my other friend said something along the lines of "That's horrendous, take it off."  I really wondered why she would say that.  Sure she may not have liked it, but what does it matter to her what other people wear?  What did it have anything to do with her?  I figured people who consider themselves "normal" feel that anything "strange" would tip off the balance of their world that they would like to keep normal.  But I'm not sure.  It may be a far-fetched theory for all I know. 

I think some of it has to do with age too.  I get the feeling that it's more acceptable for kids to dress up because people associate 'dressing up' with 'being a kid'.  Like if a 5 year old kid maybe dressed up as nauto, then the responses would be more along the lines of "that's cute" because they'd think kids watching cartoons is approrpiate.

Cosplay isn't that normal in Japan.  Maybe Akihabara, but not everyone is an anime lover in Japan.  I'm sure there's probably as many people in Japan thinking "those teens are weird" as is in America.

I think I know how you feel.  If I could I would totally randomly cosplay anyday I felt like cosplaying.  But I'm not that confident and rather self-conscience though I try not to act it.  I let people's ridicule get to me pretty easily and that would ruin my day even if I was proud of my cosplay.  *sigh* I'd love it if there really was a place where people could cosplay whenever they liked and no one would think much of it.  But you can't change the opinion of or please everyone.  I'm sure there's somethings that you wouldn't agree to and maybe think are weird.  And there's probably people out there complaining about people like you who can't accept their strange interests.  Maybe the main concern is not complete acceptance of everything different, but just polite human behavior and teaching people to show some common courtesy, not rudeness?

[Jun-Watarase]

I'd also like to add that cosplay would probably lose its appeal if it became something considered normally done.

[PyronIkari]

And you're not going to get it.

You're basically stating that people should accept something abnormal and strange... just because. Should people be made fun of? Not really, but it won't change. The abnormal is looked down upon. It has since the beginning of time. That's why it's "abnormal". You dress up in an extreme way, and people will question it.

Here's the bigger question.

WHY DO YOU EVEN CARE?

If you're cosplaying for yourself, then what matters if random people on the street think it's weird, or think that you're stupid and make fun of you. YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT IF YOU DO.

As for Japan. Once more, I'm guessing you've never been there, and are basing all of this on what you THINK it might be like because of what you see on the web. It's NOT normal to see people cosplaying on the streets... anywhere. Even in Akiba, outside of the maids advertising and trying to pull in customers... there are a FEW people that cosplay, and they are looked at like they're crazy. The only time it's different, is during an event. Where a FEW people wll cosplay accordingly to the event.

[DivineChaos]

@ Jun:  How would it lose its appeal?

Let me give this short statement, because I will repeat it over and over and everyone will read it and not process it and then make a post that requires it to be repeated.

It may be weird, but that's what we wish to stop, merely by more exposure.  I don't want very much for cosplay, I just want taunting and mockery to stop for those that DO mind being taunted.  If this is too much then explain why.  Explain why it is that people are arguing against such a change, when it could do little harm, while, if successful, it could infinite good.  Change is necessary to any life form.  Change is also necessary for society to develop.  I just don't want to settle for conventions with which people hide themselves.

@ Pyron: I'm saying people should accept something "abnormal and strange" because it is one's right to be free from clothing discrimination.  This should be made so that it ISN'T an extreme form of dress.  You're stuck on the idea that it is abnormal and always will be.  We CAN change this so that it isn't abnormal.  Well, at least not as abnormal so that people don't poke more than the usual amount of fun at it.

Why do I care?  Because it's our right to be free from discrimination, in whatever form it may be.  What if we're cosplaying to show other people?  What if it isn't just for ourselves, and we want to share with others what we have made.  I doubt anyone cosplays solely for themselves, otherwise there would be no cosplayers at conventions.  And this brings up the reasoning behind cosplayers at conventions.  If they were solely for themselves, why would they bother dressing up at a convention, when they could just do that themselves.  It shows that people want to see them in the costume, but not as people to make fun of.  They want others to appreciate the hard work they put into the costume, something people at conventions are able to see.

And I do have contacts in Japan that do inform me about this.  Of course, this is second-hand information, but it is better than nothing.  I've also had people move there solely for cosplay, and the fact of the matter is that they haven't moved back.  And since this is partly a perspective argument, even if I had no contacts, how people perceive certain things would apply since "normal" people perceiving cosplayers is the same as America perceiving Japan.

[MidnightRosebud]

I can see where you are coming from. I was terrified to wear cosplay, even to Fanime, especially for the first year I went. I really down played it. I wore a modest cosplay the next year; one that would not stick out so much. As the years went on, however, I have become more comfortable with not only myself, but my cosplaying and the clothes that I have worn to Fanime have grown increasingly elaborate.

And then I realized something over this last Fanime. I am proud of who I am, and what I wear, no matter what it is, and that includes cosplay.

Upon coming home from Fanime (still in one of my cosplay outfits) I even went to my work (a grocery store) to pick up hotdog buns for my parents. I recieved some of those "looks," but I had never felt so giddy wearing a cosplay in my life! It was awesome! Several of my co-workers recognized me, and asked me about what I was wearing. They were a little shocked at first glance, but once they understood it was no big deal. I love my town. =^__^=

Also, when I was in high school, some kids I knew wore cosplay to school. And even now, classmates and friends, we all wear cosplay every now and then to our classes! It's great! (^__^) (V)

[PyronIkari]

It may be weird, but that's what we wish to stop, merely by more exposure.  I don't want very much for cosplay, I just want taunting and mockery to stop for those that DO mind being taunted.  If this is too much then explain why.  Explain why it is that people are arguing against such a change, when it could do little harm, while, if successful, it could infinite good.  Change is necessary to any life form.  Change is also necessary for society to develop.  I just don't want to settle for conventions with which people hide themselves.

This isn't development. If you think it is... you are SERIOUSLY kidding yourself.

@ Pyron: I'm saying people should accept something "abnormal and strange" because it is one's right to be free from clothing discrimination.  This should be made so that it ISN'T an extreme form of dress.  You're stuck on the idea that it is abnormal and always will be.  We CAN change this so that it isn't abnormal.  Well, at least not as abnormal so that people don't poke more than the usual amount of fun at it.

WHO CARES IF PEOPLE POKE FUN AT IT... once more, you're missing the damned point. Descrimination is everywhere... no matter what or how you act/dress/behave. You dress well, and you will be descriminated against by the outcasts that think "normal" is wrong. You dress homely, and you are descriminated against by those that dress well. You dress like a freak, and you are descriminated against by most other people. What you are attempting to do isn't change this, you are stating that you want "cosplay" to become accepted. In by doing so, you are trying to create a fashion revolution in which cosplay is accepted dress, and stylish/chic. It's not going to happen.

Why do I care?  Because it's our right to be free from discrimination, in whatever form it may be.  What if we're cosplaying to show other people?  What if it isn't just for ourselves, and we want to share with others what we have made.  I doubt anyone cosplays solely for themselves, otherwise there would be no cosplayers at conventions.  And this brings up the reasoning behind cosplayers at conventions.  If they were solely for themselves, why would they bother dressing up at a convention, when they could just do that themselves.  It shows that people want to see them in the costume, but not as people to make fun of.  They want others to appreciate the hard work they put into the costume, something people at conventions are able to see.

Ah... and this is where it all comes out. You want acceptance in what you do. You want praise, and approval. That's not how society works. Normal people will not praise you for doing something abnormal. Face it, you are in a small niche fandom that is frowned upon by the majority of society. Accept it, or leave the fandom.

And I do have contacts in Japan that do inform me about this.  Of course, this is second-hand information, but it is better than nothing.  I've also had people move there solely for cosplay, and the fact of the matter is that they haven't moved back.  And since this is partly a perspective argument, even if I had no contacts, how people perceive certain things would apply since "normal" people perceiving cosplayers is the same as America perceiving Japan.

Had people move there solely for cosplay... ... hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha. You act as if, moving to Japan is as simple as "I feel like moving to Japan". I assume you are very young, otherwise you would know about things like... citizenship, visas, and residency. The comparison is totally difference. One is about acceptance of the abnormal, the other is ignorance. You are ignorant about Japan(yet think you know something about it). I've gone there, I spent a good amount of time in Harajuku... I spent a good amount of time in Akihabara. I saw Kyoto, I saw almost all of Tokyo. I had Yokohama cheesecake, and I spent a few nights over looking Roppongi Hills. My friend comes to the states every year to sell doujinshi, and a good friend of ours is a total otaku... despite being a salary man who has to hide his identity from work. I have a great friend who makes more money in a year than I do in 5 years... who happens to be friends with A LOT of major people in the anime/manga industry. She is one of the most chic/stylish/fashionable/worldly person I know... and at heart she's a nerd. I have friends who is a rather well known doujinshi artist whose circle does well every single comiket.

And ALL of them disagree with you and your statements on Japan. I have a friend in the states... who cosplays almost every day of her life. And she knows the rest of the world looks at her like she's crazy... but in reality it doesn't matter. Because that's what she wants to do, and that's how she dresses.

She doesn't need the approval of strangers, she doesn't need the acceptance of the general populus. She has her friends who accept her as that, and she has her own acknowledgment.

You don't want cosplay to be accepted... you just want to feel as if you aren't doing something strange. You want self-acknowledgment, because, for some reason you can't do that without others telling you it's okay.

[XpHoBiaX]

People won't change their opinion on the wierdness of cosplay. Whether or not they are aware of it. You pretty much wasted a bunch of internet space, in my opinion.

It's free will to choose what you like and how you do things. My advice would be to not give a damn about what people think about you and your cosplay. Especially if they are going to ridicule you. Obviously, they don't care and you shouldn't either.

But I think Pyron and everyone else already stated that. @_@

[Lina]

And then I realized something over this last Fanime. I am proud of who I am, and what I wear, no matter what it is, and that includes cosplay.

Upon coming home from Fanime (still in one of my cosplay outfits) I even went to my work (a grocery store) to pick up hotdog buns for my parents. I recieved some of those "looks," but I had never felt so giddy wearing a cosplay in my life! It was awesome! Several of my co-workers recognized me, and asked me about what I was wearing. They were a little shocked at first glance, but once they understood it was no big deal. I love my town. =^__^=

Also, when I was in high school, some kids I knew wore cosplay to school. And even now, classmates and friends, we all wear cosplay every now and then to our classes! It's great! (^__^) (V)

I think that's great! There really isn't a need to worry about what other people think. It should just be what makes you happy. When I was cosplaying at Fanime (it was my 1st convention) I felt so happy and I wanted to be able to feel that way all them time. So now (I am in highschool) I plan on every once in awhile cosplaying at school, just for fun. If the other people don't like it then that's just to bad for them. According to me they are the ones that are missing out on the fun. Also if they think I'm werid, I don't care, they already think I'm werid anyway. So the question, is cosplaying werid, it defintely doesn't look normal to the majority of people. However at a convention I found it to be the most normal thing. It really depends were you are at and who you're with.

[Jangular]

Why do jocks make fun of goths?
Why do punks make fun of preps?

people fear what they don't know, and when you fear something you find a way to rationalize that you're above it, which a fair amount of the time is to belittle it.

[PyronIkari]

Although there is nothing wrong with it...

Cosplaying at school will have more affects than just people looking at you weird. You're going to be pushing yourself further away from the norm. If that's what you want, that's fine... but no in advance that a lot of people will not associate with you because they're going to think you're strange. If you accept this, don't complain and bitch when it happens.

[Steve.Young]

Damn nerds.  ;D

[Saint-Vegas]

I think its odd for most people because they might not be as devoted to their mediums of entertainment.

Japanese anime and gaming in general are amazing cultures though, and people like to show their kudos to them in all sorts of ways. One way is to have their wedding cake shaped like tetris blocks. Another is dressing up.

Certainly, having cosplay'd this year I realize that while some can look awful and probably lends to the negative stereotype, its fun and very... freedoming to dress up. Its like a really good holiday away from the normal expectations of people. You can do and be what you like and not worry about it.

[quantbits]

disregarding all the angst on this thread.

So my first time cosplaying Hard Gay.
People avoided me, called me "fag" several times, and refused to take pictures or walk around me.
I already expected this, so I wasn't suprised nor care - nor is it their fault for their reactions.

Did I have an awesome time at the con entertaining people who called out "OMG! HARD GAY!!"
ABSOLUTE FREAKING YES. =)

I chose to cosplay what I chose to cosplay. and I don't regret it.
I realize I'm being "abnormal" and that I'm okay with it.
Now repeat that mentally, because that's how you grow as a person.

PS.
You don't have to be JUST a cosplayer. I love doing photography, drinking with my pals, cooking, and graphic design. I also love working out at the gym til I can't feel a single bone in my body.
Diversify - the secret to pwning at life people. Start now.

[Saint-Vegas]

People usually misjudge anything they're not interested in and/or don't understand.

Its funny, cause whether or not we're just a large congregation of nerds, its still just a microcosm of the basic elements of society: you've got cliques and certainly evil elitists, and a money system... Jeez, look at me, I'm a scientist. amirite?

[Jun-Watarase]

Cosplaying is just expressing your fandom in a loving way. It's your hobby, and you do it because you enjoy doing it. It doesn't matter what people outside the fandom think about it. You're not actively sharing your love for cosplay with them, rather those that are also in the fandom. Point is, it'll always be considered strange to some people-- you aren't obligated to change the circumstances for them to be more accepting of it. Just don't care.

But of course, it's a hobby to be taken appropriately. I won't wear some flashy cosplay to a job interview to a big company or something. I'll wear it to a convention, or an event where people cosplay or share the same fandom. One of our friends, the one Mikey mentioned, wears cosplay everyday no matter where she goes (unless she's under the circumstance where wearing most cosplays would be inappropriate). She enjoys cosplaying, and the activity where she can dress up and be a character. As long as it she enjoys it, accepts how others may react to it, and doesn't disturb anyone, it's fine.

Hell, I find most yaoi fangirls annoying. But I wouldn't want one actively trying to make it more acceptable-- I'll at least respect the fact that they're expressing their fandom and sharing it within themselves, but if they try to force acceptance upon me because they don't like the fact that I find most of them annoying, I'd push it even further away. I'm not trying to be narrow-minded, but I have preferences. You can't change "normal" people to like or accept cosplay-- people have different preferences, different interests. It's just the way things are.