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Author Topic: Expanded Artist Alley?  (Read 8291 times)

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elfgirlkaname

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Re: Expanded Artist Alley?
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2009, 11:42:04 AM »

Haha I was actually thinking about mentioning that and linking the thread from the Otakon forums about it >____>;; Don't know if I should add that in this thread of open a seperate thread about it though.

We did manage to hold them to four this year but two or better yet zero should be the goal. After gaming the system so hard repreccussions should follow.

actually it would be nice if I could have power too so that I could maybe make clothes while at my table or to use my sewing machine to help people fix their cosplays :D

ewu

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Re: Expanded Artist Alley?
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2009, 08:27:53 PM »

you want power, you gotta pay...something like $300-500 for a drop.
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elfgirlkaname

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Re: Expanded Artist Alley?
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2009, 11:05:27 PM »

you want power, you gotta pay...something like $300-500 for a drop.

lol yeah I know prolly way too expensive ;)   but I can dream right? ;D

ewu

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Re: Expanded Artist Alley?
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2009, 11:37:13 PM »

well if someone is out there that wants it, tell us soon so it'll cost less for fanime and you. but honestly...thats like half of the dealers booth fee....
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wakaranai_de

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Re: Expanded Artist Alley?
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2009, 10:36:31 AM »

I can't afford it this time around, unfortunately (I could either afford that or getting CDs printed, but not both ~cringe~).  Good to know for the future, though.
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Fettachan

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Re: Expanded Artist Alley?
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2009, 01:20:26 AM »

Well here's my novel idea on how we can make FanmieCon's Artist Alley better.

Right now, I find the way most cons do artist alley is counter productive. While most place charge about $50.00 a booth, and admittedly this is a very generously discounted rate, it prevents artists that are just starting up from participating in the Alley. Also, I find that most festivals/conventions have trouble making any money from their Alley, let alone break even.. However, I have thought of the perfect solution that allows conventions to make money from their Artist Alley's AND allow Artist Alley to support the conventions. Take a fixed amount out of the artist's revenue.

By not charging a fixed fee for a table at your artist alley and taking a percentage you will open up Artist Alley to a wide variety of new artists who normally couldn't afford a table. This could allow FanimeCon alley to be greatly expanded, giving the conventions patrons a wider selection of artists. Also, by charging a percentage of sales you will allow Artist Alley can become a small revenue generator for the rest of the event.

Now for some questions:

Q. But doesn't this punish people for being good? If a con takes 20%, someone making $2000.00 at our alley will have to pay us $400.00 of it.

A. Yes it does. However that still means that they are getting $1600.00 in a single weekend. Plus all the new artists you'll recruit won't lose any money if they take a chance on your alley. They'll only risk their time.


Q. Our convention doesn't want to be seen as greedy. How can we use this system while supporting the artists?

A. For starters you could promise to use any revenue generated from the Alley for it's improvement (better location, decorations, supplies, ect). Also, you can use it to fund projects that most artists couldn't afford normally. Like if the Alley makes $5000.00 in one year, they could use that money to fund an art book that the artists can collaborate into for the year after.


Q. People are saying we'll lose our most popular artists if we do this? What can we do?

A. Tell them there's still the vendors/dealers hall. Inform them that you've decided to focus on the entire community of artists as opposed to them. Say that if they have become popular, they no longer need the conventions help. Or just ignore them. Don't worry, they'll be back.

So what does everyone think?
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Tony

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Re: Expanded Artist Alley?
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2009, 09:02:49 AM »

I love the concept, but it's really easy to get around. (It's why the IRS forces businesses to choose either cash or accrual accounting.) I'm not sure there's a practical way to take a percentage without a flat fee.

Also, not everyone at AA is selling... we'd either have to exclude them due to cost, or charge a fee; otherwise the people selling items are effectively subsidizing the ones who are not.
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elfgirlkaname

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Re: Expanded Artist Alley?
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2009, 07:23:58 PM »

I love the concept, but it's really easy to get around. (It's why the IRS forces businesses to choose either cash or accrual accounting.) I'm not sure there's a practical way to take a percentage without a flat fee.

Also, not everyone at AA is selling... we'd either have to exclude them due to cost, or charge a fee; otherwise the people selling items are effectively subsidizing the ones who are not.

yeah I agree  :-\

how would you know how much money they took in?
and yea quite a few people don't make what it costs for the booth...

Sen

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Re: Expanded Artist Alley?
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2009, 07:46:35 PM »

Right now, I find the way most cons do artist alley is counter productive. While most place charge about $50.00 a booth, and admittedly this is a very generously discounted rate, it prevents artists that are just starting up from participating in the Alley.

Our current rate until con is $30. I think Fanime's AA is about as cheap as it can get for a larger con.

A sound idea though.
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Fettachan

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Re: Expanded Artist Alley?
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2009, 01:39:46 AM »

I love the concept, but it's really easy to get around. (It's why the IRS forces businesses to choose either cash or accrual accounting.) I'm not sure there's a practical way to take a percentage without a flat fee.


Well here's my solution. Have a ticket based system.

Example: Patron buys tickets from a cashier for $1.00 each (example). Artists then charge for their art prices in tickets (1 drawing = 3 tickets). At the end of the con, artists can then redeem their tickets for 90 cents, and the con can get 10 cents from every ticket.

It requires a little extra work (a cash out, volunteer to run it, getting tickets) but it helps solve some problems. Like then the majority of artists wouldn't have to deal with cash boxes and change. They just have to collect tickets.

Also, not everyone at AA is selling... we'd either have to exclude them due to cost, or charge a fee; otherwise the people selling items are effectively subsidizing the ones who are not.

Hmm, well I guess you could charge them a fee, but your right. I guess someone would have to bite the bullet on that point. Still I think the benefits weigh out this small problem.

Quote
Our current rate until con is $30. I think Fanime's AA is about as cheap as it can get for a larger con.

True. I guess with this more people would end up paying more then just paying the $30.00. Then again, $30.00 is still enough to discourage a lot of new artists especially in a recession. I mean this way you are guaranteed to make some money and you are only risking your time.
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darkkako

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Re: Expanded Artist Alley?
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2009, 05:02:21 AM »

(For simplicity's sake, I assume in this post that the fixed fee would be 10% of gross profits. ^^; )
As an artist who is mildly new to artist's alleys, I'd have to say that if this were implemented I would probably be turned off to the idea of selling in the AA. I'll admit that it's a pretty strictly logical plan, and would definitely be a benefit to anyone who projects under a $300 profit for the convention, but there's something kind of daunting about being unaware of how much you'd technically be paying for a table. >_>; Again, the plan is definitely sound but the variable factor causes a bit of a knee-jerk reaction.

Also, I kind of question if the profit gained by the people making >$300 will outweigh the loss caused by the people making <$300. Most artist I know who participate in AAs don't often walk away with a lot of money. So, especially if the higher-grossing artists are driven away by the increased cost for them, fanime could be looking at a net loss rather than a small revenue machine.

The ticketing system you suggested seems arbitrarily complex and, speaking from experience as one who has run carnival games, tiny tickets are much harder to keep an accurate count of than money is. ^^;
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ewu

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Re: Expanded Artist Alley?
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2009, 06:58:35 AM »

In the end, is it reasonable and feasible for Fanime to staff and organize such an effort? We are short on staff as is, are we supposed to patrol the alley for people using cash instead of the tickets? what proof do we have that you made $100 instead of $450? at the end of the day/con are 200 some odd people going to line up to pay Fanime a percentage of their earnings? Do we even have the staff to collect $$ and make sure this 200 person line moves quick and efficiently?

Great ideas but we need solutions; take the idea a second step and examine how to implement them effectively and economically.

Sometimes KISS is the best, "Keep It Simple, Stupid". Welcome to the world of planing a con:)
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Hirotona

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Re: Expanded Artist Alley?
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2009, 02:01:36 PM »

The AA tables are keep reasonably priced as they are though, as far as AA operations go I don't think that's an area that needs focusing on ^^;;

Glad to see this thread used for more general AA chat/suggestions though. It wouldn't be Fanime without all our talented artists afterall.
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Usaku

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Re: Expanded Artist Alley?
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2009, 08:53:35 PM »

Fetta, have you been posting this on every con's forum? That first post is verbatim one I read on Anime Evolution's forum. This topic was posted on DeviantArt by a fairly well known artist, and the reaction was far from positive. Also, you posted the same followup about tickets.

This is just my opinion, but in no way, under any circumstance, should a convention tax its artists. Ever. Not only is it a financial/logistical nightmare for the artist, on top of taxes we have to pay to state, local and federal levels - it's a nightmare for the convention staff. Fanime will have around 200 tables this year. Who's going to police 200 or more artists and request forms and receipts from all of them? Some artists make a lot of money in AA, but it's maybe $2000-$3000 at most (only the most popular reach those figures.. maybe less artists than you can count on two hands). Subtract the costs of attendance (airfare, food, hotel, registration), cost of materials (paper, ink, printing, etc) and state and federal taxes. Artists in AA really don't reap a ton of profit. Think about the other 90% of artists who are lucky to make a couple hundred bucks, if at all. Personally I barely break even for the cost of my stay. Moreover, the very idea is very unfriendly to the fostering of a  creative and open, independent atmosphere. It seems like a very big-business thing to do. Any con willing to implement a practice such as taxing artists deserves the significant drop in artist attendance they would inevitably incur.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2009, 08:58:47 PM by Usaku »
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Hirotona

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Re: Expanded Artist Alley?
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2009, 10:08:02 PM »

I didn't know at the time I read that idea that it was actively being promoted elsewhere and was actually in pratice at a con already, I figured such a poor idea had no traction what so ever.

I'm almost of the mind that most of the people going around spreading this idea are actually against it, and are doing this to demonstrate how unpopular it is by showing how much negative feedback it recieves.
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Hirotona

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Re: Expanded Artist Alley?
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2009, 03:18:16 PM »

I hear we are allowing those two I mentioned earlier in the thread table space : ( I'm pretty saddened.
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