Prop 8 debate

[G.I.R]

How come people are getting so mad about the people who are for it, though? How come people can't have the right to just disagree? I understand that this law is discriminating against Gays and Lesbians, and that is wrong. But suppose people did vote No on it all together and there were those few who thought Yes on it but didn't have the discrimination in mind, or just didn't want for vote No for their own reasons, why are they such bad people?
In America people can have their opinions and perspectives, just as I have mine, and thats why I posted this Topic, to see other peoples perspectives and opinions on this Prop, but now as I read these posts and get called all theses names... I notices things about folk. If someone can answer why its so bad to just disagree sometimes.. I think I might just be content. When I put the childish name calling aside, I understand where people are coming from, I think everyone should have the right to do what they want, but I want to know why people can't vote YES on this prop with out coming out as a bad person, or and idiot, or ignorant.

Then you should not have told people to vote yes on 8 in this forum.  It's one thing to have or express an opinion about tha topic, but to come right out and tell people how to respond without any explanation is something else.

[Chun]

I understand that this law is discriminating against Gays and Lesbians, and that is wrong.

But suppose people did vote No on it all together and there were those few who thought Yes on it but didn't have the discrimination in mind, or just didn't want for vote No for their own reasons, why are they such bad people?

There is a contradiction in that statement, Your Honor!

Voting yes means that those effective parties ARE discriminating.

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to realize that if the actual proposal was read this wouldn't have happened.

If not to for your own personal reasons, do it for the kids!  >:(

Present evidence which incriminates a No vote on Proposition 8 directly scarring education. I've shown primary-source, direct government evidence against it. Don't link me to a YES ON 8 website.

~Chun

[Jun-Watarase]

How come people are getting so mad about the people who are for it, though? How come people can't have the right to just disagree? I understand that this law is discriminating against Gays and Lesbians, and that is wrong. But suppose people did vote No on it all together and there were those few who thought Yes on it but didn't have the discrimination in mind, or just didn't want for vote No for their own reasons, why are they such bad people?
In America people can have their opinions and perspectives, just as I have mine, and thats why I posted this Topic, to see other peoples perspectives and opinions on this Prop, but now as I read these posts and get called all theses names... I notices things about folk. If someone can answer why its so bad to just disagree sometimes.. I think I might just be content. When I put the childish name calling aside, I understand where people are coming from, I think everyone should have the right to do what they want, but I want to know why people can't vote YES on this prop with out coming out as a bad person, or and idiot, or ignorant.

AUGH. Honestly, my temper isn't easily tested, but somehow your posts always manage to do it. It's frustrating to know that the majority of people are just as PAINFULLY ignorant. How, in any shape or form is having this proposition NOT discriminating? Really, none of the reasons you posted are even remotely valid or unable to be disproved.

Why is it SO HARD FOR YOU to understand that having this proposition, you're NOT GAINING OR LOSING anything? Why is it SO important to the extent that other people who have nothing to do with you to lose something as meaningful as the right to marry, like the rest of you? Don't blame it on the children, because in all hope children of the future generations will grow up to be more intelligent and understanding than you ignorant f*ckwads.

You don't realize how utterly frustrating it is to know that you nonchalantly decide that you should vote yes without even thinking about all the people that'll be denied their personal rights and being unable to marry just because YOU think you have a valid reason to choose for them. Do you go up to hetero couples and say "HEY, YOU GUYS. DON'T MARRY. I DON'T THINK IT'S RIGHT." or how about a person brought up with discriminating beliefs decides to inquire you and your boyfriend as you're walking down the street, "How come you guys are together? She's black. That's wrong." Don't tell me you don't take this as a personal offense.

I DO take it as a personal offense. Despite currently dating a male-gendered male-sex person, I am both bigendered and bisexual. I've dated or had relations with female-gendered, male-gendered, and transsexual women, and I've undeniably loved the partners that I were and am with despite any of that-- but it is truly unfair and unjust if I were to progress with a woman and be denied the right to ever propose to her and marry her legally. It's even worse for those who are homosexual, without the choice to meet marry without meeting YOUR expectations. People are born with their race, and people are born with their sexuality and how it develops. And even then, you aren't them. You shouldn't be able to choose for them. And chances are, these people who are old enough to even consider marriage are probably more mature than you are. How frustrating is it to have an ignorant know-nothing kid come up and have the power to take that away from them?

And I think these people, despite sex, gender, or sexual orientation DESERVE the change. They deserve others to finally let go of the past, because the past has always been historically, ignorant. That they should finally improve and move onto the future and realize that people should have these rights equally to everyone else. Obama became president-- this is a certain change for American history as is, the very first African-American president DESPITE the fact that African-Americans were considered low class citizens in the past, and are treated equally to the extent that they're even allowed to declare presidency. And all the people who were against having Obama as president primarily on the fact that he's black? Ignorant. How is denying the right to marry for gays and lesbians NOT unfair IF NOT THE SAME FORM of ignorance?

Also, don't tell us that we haven't told you why our reasons are valid, and why we strongly feel that this proposition is blatantly wrong. The "name-calling"? That's deserved on your part. It's a fitting TRUE to your character, and you constantly display it to instigate the same result. So the name calling isn't there because we want to reinforce our point by strengthening it with harsh words, rather, they're comments accurate to your description.

I remember long ago that you made a post on why people bully you, then comes along many a reply telling you that people are only reacting to how you carry yourself and why you keep pushing the common sense to IMPROVE away. It's because you never take it as a heads-up that maybe you're in need of improvement. You didn't even give it a second thought to even wonder if what we're saying is right, and that you ARE discriminating against others. Actually, you've had a history with discriminating others from what I remember. I take it that you haven't learned and haven't improved at all.

[Kazuko]

Dear OP
Are you happy? because prop 8 passed thanks to ignorant people like you. WHY is it sooo hard for you to grasp what Jun and pretty much all of us Had said. Get some common sense and put more logic in your statements rather thank being all willy nilly, This would have been important day for all of the LGBT community because it is a big Step up in our civil rights but now Way to back track california.

The People who Voted yes WERE discriminating the LGBT community because oh what "someone please think of the children blah blah blah relgion" when INFACT marriage is NEVER taught in schools, Children are pretty understanding than you to be honest. Its personal to me too because of my recentally gay cousin and my future brother in-law's brother would want to get married someday and now the ignorant asshats have decided that OH NOES WE CANTS HAVE GAYS MARRIED ITS SICK ITS AGAINST THE LORD. Oh Shut it this has pissed me off KEEP RELIGION OUT of My politics and my Beliefs I am a Christian and I voted No on Prop 8  because I believe in EQUALITY FOR ALL regardless of Sexual Orientation or the color of our skin.

We might as well take away Inter Racial marriage while were at it...God this makes me so mad But change WILL COME wether you like it or not

I never had a headache reading a post before but DEAR LORD I cant believe how ignorant and contradictory you are

[Mizuki]

Stickied. This is actually a very important topic that can open people's eyes.

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

+++++++

I've always known by mom is very stupid, and in some cases, retarded, but when in regards to Prop 8, her stupidity level is at the point were it makes no sense, AT ALL.
Talking to her about prop 8 in the car just 30 minutes ago. I was kind of mad that the Prop passed and talking to her about it. She goes on to say how the world was made with a man and a woman and all that nonsense. I replied that that was not the point, and that, as Americans, ALL of us have the right to peruse happiness, and that voting yes goes against what America stands for, and that it takes homosexuals rights away to peruse that happiness. You know how she relied? She said, with full seriousness, that she has her rights takin away all the time, for instance, her right to get a new car is taken away because she does not have the money to buy it.
WTF!?!
Again, I know my mom is stupid, but how in gods name can anyone be that stupid!?!
After that, I got really mad and started accusing of Neo-Nazi-ism and things to such effects.

And now I will throw her to the wolves.
Please reply back by Quoting this post, as I won't be able to get her to look through this thread unless I get someone insult her personally, and explain to her her ignorance and stupidity.

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

I'd also like to clear something up:

Ignorance is when someone does not know better.

Stupidity is when they do, but ignore such.


Prop8 was voted on by people of the latter.



Jesus, now I want to go to a protest or something.

[Kazuko]

well its time to do that! Im not gonna play nice anymore, Its time to educate the ignorant and stupid who believe the lies
and apparently there is a petition to re-open 8! I signed it already, for hope
http://www.petitiononline.com/seg5130/petition.html

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

well its time to do that! Im not gonna play nice anymore, Its time to educate the ignorant and stupid who believe the lies
and apparently there is a petition to re-open 8! I signed it already, for hope
http://www.petitiononline.com/seg5130/petition.html

I will also!
EDIT: Oh yeah, I'm still not 18.
(>_<)

[L3sli3_Lov3s_Chu]

Why has this been made sticky???? (I don't think it should be made sticky)

Also, civil....rights? (I understand, honestly, what they are but... I shall just post this to see how people re-act, seems I don't have to say all that much anyways to stir up folks...)

Lets see what happens.

You know, I almost felt bad about hoping people voted Yes on Prop 8 especially considering the fact that I have gay and lesbian fam., but ney.

[jemz]

As Voltaire once said (or is attributed to saying), "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

For those who believe that marriage is all about love between two people, regardless of age, ethnicity, religion, or gender, I will defend to the death for people's rights to marry who they want to marry.

The fight for equal rights will go on.

[L3sli3_Lov3s_Chu]

Well, it is going to be challenged so... Maybe they'll vote NO the next time around.

[Jun-Watarase]

Why has this been made sticky???? (I don't think it should be made sticky)

He's a mod. You're not. It's made into a sticky because of the astounding amount of ignorance and stupidity you've managed to have despite all of the things that were said, and all the replies made against it so that hopefully like-minded people like you can read something that informs them of all the wrong that they're doing in hopes that they're smart enough to logically understand any of it where you failed to do so.

Also, civil....rights? (I understand, honestly, what they are but... I shall just post this to see how people re-act, seems I don't have to say all that much anyways to stir up folks...)

Lets see what happens.

You know, I almost felt bad about hoping people voted Yes on Prop 8 especially considering the fact that I have gay and lesbian fam., but ney.

Seriously, what in f*cks sake is wrong with you? Really, you had NOTHING TO LOSE if Prop 8 was unapproved. You GAIN NOTHING by having it passed. You only promote other people to remain stupid f*cks like you. If it were a proposition against interracial marriage, then perhaps you'd be in the position to understand. Actually, it boggles the mind how people can be this painfully stupid.

Can't this country evolve a little faster, please? We came to the point to allow something as wonderful as having a president not be discriminated by ignorant racism, why can't we allow same-sex marriage? We're not corrupting your children, we're not forcing you to be gay-- why shouldn't any of your gay and lesbian family members be able to marry?

I have hope though. The majority has become accepting and understanding of people regardless of race. Hopefully other people will becoming smarter than you are and finally evolve and realize that same-sex marriage is essentially the same thing, and grow to accept it. And it WILL happen one day, whether you like it or not. It's a shame that it hasn't happened yet, but eventually, it will.

See, I'd be more lenient if it were solely a matter of opinion, but in this case, it's selfish retaliation against a false threat, and an astounding display of ignorance and stupidity.

[L3sli3_Lov3s_Chu]

Why has this been made sticky???? (I don't think it should be made sticky)

He's a mod. You're not. It's made into a sticky because of the astounding amount of ignorance and stupidity you've managed to have despite all of the things that were said, and all the replies made against it so that hopefully like-minded people like you can read something that informs them of all the wrong that they're doing in hopes that they're smart enough to logically understand any of it where you failed to do so.

Also, civil....rights? (I understand, honestly, what they are but... I shall just post this to see how people re-act, seems I don't have to say all that much anyways to stir up folks...)

Lets see what happens.

You know, I almost felt bad about hoping people voted Yes on Prop 8 especially considering the fact that I have gay and lesbian fam., but ney.

Seriously, what in f*cks sake is wrong with you? Really, you had NOTHING TO LOSE if Prop 8 was unapproved. You GAIN NOTHING by having it passed. You only promote other people to remain stupid f*cks like you. If it were a proposition against interracial marriage, then perhaps you'd be in the position to understand. Actually, it boggles the mind how people can be this painfully stupid.

Can't this country evolve a little faster, please? We came to the point to allow something as wonderful as having a president not be discriminated by ignorant racism, why can't we allow same-sex marriage? We're not corrupting your children, we're not forcing you to be gay-- why shouldn't any of your gay and lesbian family members be able to marry?

I have hope though. The majority has become accepting and understanding of people regardless of race. Hopefully other people will becoming smarter than you are and finally evolve and realize that same-sex marriage is essentially the same thing, and grow to accept it. And it WILL happen one day, whether you like it or not. It's a shame that it hasn't happened yet, but eventually, it will.

See, I'd be more lenient if it were solely a matter of opinion, but in this case, it's selfish retaliation against a false threat, and an astounding display of ignorance and stupidity.

All this... Cause I said a little bit of that. And your right, if it were against interracial dating/marriage it most definatly WOULD be a different story. Also, if I frustrate you so much, why not ignore me? You've nothing to loose. Not point in wasting time on meh. It would seem that everytime I'm wrong, you're there. Just ignore me.

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

Why has this been made sticky???? (I don't think it should be made sticky)

He's a mod. You're not. It's made into a sticky because of the astounding amount of ignorance and stupidity you've managed to have despite all of the things that were said, and all the replies made against it so that hopefully like-minded people like you can read something that informs them of all the wrong that they're doing in hopes that they're smart enough to logically understand any of it where you failed to do so.

Also, civil....rights? (I understand, honestly, what they are but... I shall just post this to see how people re-act, seems I don't have to say all that much anyways to stir up folks...)

Lets see what happens.

You know, I almost felt bad about hoping people voted Yes on Prop 8 especially considering the fact that I have gay and lesbian fam., but ney.

Seriously, what in f*cks sake is wrong with you? Really, you had NOTHING TO LOSE if Prop 8 was unapproved. You GAIN NOTHING by having it passed. You only promote other people to remain stupid f*cks like you. If it were a proposition against interracial marriage, then perhaps you'd be in the position to understand. Actually, it boggles the mind how people can be this painfully stupid.

Can't this country evolve a little faster, please? We came to the point to allow something as wonderful as having a president not be discriminated by ignorant racism, why can't we allow same-sex marriage? We're not corrupting your children, we're not forcing you to be gay-- why shouldn't any of your gay and lesbian family members be able to marry?

I have hope though. The majority has become accepting and understanding of people regardless of race. Hopefully other people will becoming smarter than you are and finally evolve and realize that same-sex marriage is essentially the same thing, and grow to accept it. And it WILL happen one day, whether you like it or not. It's a shame that it hasn't happened yet, but eventually, it will.

See, I'd be more lenient if it were solely a matter of opinion, but in this case, it's selfish retaliation against a false threat, and an astounding display of ignorance and stupidity.

All this... Cause I said a little bit of that. And your right, if it were against interracial dating/marriage it most definatly WOULD be a different story. Also, if I frustrate you so much, why not ignore me? You've nothing to loose. Not point in wasting time on meh. It would seem that everytime I'm wrong, you're there. Just ignore me.

She talks like my mom talks. To bad my mom is a stupid, stupid, person.

[L3sli3_Lov3s_Chu]

Why has this been made sticky???? (I don't think it should be made sticky)

He's a mod. You're not. It's made into a sticky because of the astounding amount of ignorance and stupidity you've managed to have despite all of the things that were said, and all the replies made against it so that hopefully like-minded people like you can read something that informs them of all the wrong that they're doing in hopes that they're smart enough to logically understand any of it where you failed to do so.

Also, civil....rights? (I understand, honestly, what they are but... I shall just post this to see how people re-act, seems I don't have to say all that much anyways to stir up folks...)

Lets see what happens.

You know, I almost felt bad about hoping people voted Yes on Prop 8 especially considering the fact that I have gay and lesbian fam., but ney.

Seriously, what in f*cks sake is wrong with you? Really, you had NOTHING TO LOSE if Prop 8 was unapproved. You GAIN NOTHING by having it passed. You only promote other people to remain stupid f*cks like you. If it were a proposition against interracial marriage, then perhaps you'd be in the position to understand. Actually, it boggles the mind how people can be this painfully stupid.

Can't this country evolve a little faster, please? We came to the point to allow something as wonderful as having a president not be discriminated by ignorant racism, why can't we allow same-sex marriage? We're not corrupting your children, we're not forcing you to be gay-- why shouldn't any of your gay and lesbian family members be able to marry?

I have hope though. The majority has become accepting and understanding of people regardless of race. Hopefully other people will becoming smarter than you are and finally evolve and realize that same-sex marriage is essentially the same thing, and grow to accept it. And it WILL happen one day, whether you like it or not. It's a shame that it hasn't happened yet, but eventually, it will.

See, I'd be more lenient if it were solely a matter of opinion, but in this case, it's selfish retaliation against a false threat, and an astounding display of ignorance and stupidity.

All this... Cause I said a little bit of that. And your right, if it were against interracial dating/marriage it most definatly WOULD be a different story. Also, if I frustrate you so much, why not ignore me? You've nothing to loose. Not point in wasting time on meh. It would seem that everytime I'm wrong, you're there. Just ignore me.

She talks like my mom talks. To bad my mom is a stupid, stupid, person.

Yeh, I know, huh.

[Jun-Watarase]

All this... Cause I said a little bit of that. And your right, if it were against interracial dating/marriage it most definatly WOULD be a different story. Also, if I frustrate you so much, why not ignore me? You've nothing to loose. Not point in wasting time on meh. It would seem that everytime I'm wrong, you're there. Just ignore me.

If you understand that with interracial marriage, why is it that you STILL don't seem to grasp that the rights to same-sex marriage is essentially the same thing? You don't seem to realize how important it'd be to those who want this right. If this were the fight for interracial marriage, you'll realize how important it is for hundreds of people to have the right to marry, whereas the people against it wouldn't be losing a thing. They'd still be able to marry their own race, just as how it's very important to gays, lesbians, TGs, TSs, and TVs, but you're still able to marry the opposite sex regardless.

And for one thing, don't try to start the whole "then just ignore me" sh*t. I think using the ignore function on a public forum is stupid, especially in discussions like this, leaving chunks out of it and missing the discussion's progression just because I don't like what someone else says only makes things unorderly. Plus, this subject is an important matter and I want to voice my opinion, make my point clear and make you realize how stupid you are.

And again, I am ashamed to be of the same age as you. I am at least GRATEFUL that you're still underage and unable to vote. America doesn't need more stupid illogical idiots.

[questionette]

Why has this been made sticky???? (I don't think it should be made sticky)

He's a mod. You're not. It's made into a sticky because of the astounding amount of ignorance and stupidity you've managed to have despite all of the things that were said, and all the replies made against it so that hopefully like-minded people like you can read something that informs them of all the wrong that they're doing in hopes that they're smart enough to logically understand any of it where you failed to do so.

Also, civil....rights? (I understand, honestly, what they are but... I shall just post this to see how people re-act, seems I don't have to say all that much anyways to stir up folks...)

Lets see what happens.

You know, I almost felt bad about hoping people voted Yes on Prop 8 especially considering the fact that I have gay and lesbian fam., but ney.

Seriously, what in f*cks sake is wrong with you? Really, you had NOTHING TO LOSE if Prop 8 was unapproved. You GAIN NOTHING by having it passed. You only promote other people to remain stupid f*cks like you. If it were a proposition against interracial marriage, then perhaps you'd be in the position to understand. Actually, it boggles the mind how people can be this painfully stupid.

Can't this country evolve a little faster, please? We came to the point to allow something as wonderful as having a president not be discriminated by ignorant racism, why can't we allow same-sex marriage? We're not corrupting your children, we're not forcing you to be gay-- why shouldn't any of your gay and lesbian family members be able to marry?

I have hope though. The majority has become accepting and understanding of people regardless of race. Hopefully other people will becoming smarter than you are and finally evolve and realize that same-sex marriage is essentially the same thing, and grow to accept it. And it WILL happen one day, whether you like it or not. It's a shame that it hasn't happened yet, but eventually, it will.

See, I'd be more lenient if it were solely a matter of opinion, but in this case, it's selfish retaliation against a false threat, and an astounding display of ignorance and stupidity.

All this... Cause I said a little bit of that. And your right, if it were against interracial dating/marriage it most definatly WOULD be a different story. Also, if I frustrate you so much, why not ignore me? You've nothing to loose. Not point in wasting time on meh. It would seem that everytime I'm wrong, you're there. Just ignore me.

Why is he not ignoring you? Because She disagrees with your beliefs, and is arguing against your point of view.  It's called debating, and that's part of what this forum subcategory is about.  Also, the fact that you can't even come up with a truly valid point makes HER the winner, FYI.

Oh, and side comment.  The mayer of San Francisco said that he will continue to allow gay couples to marry until the Court intervenes. :D

[L3sli3_Lov3s_Chu]

Oh, and side comment.  The mayer of San Francisco said that he will continue to allow gay couples to marry until the Court intervenes.

Well, thats nice. Yaaaayz.

[L3sli3_Lov3s_Chu]

I dun wanna lock this topic cuz its importent.... :'(  But this is drainin' meh.