A request for Karaoke 2009

Started by zoupzuop2, February 22, 2009, 10:05:47 PM

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zoupzuop2

In previous years, I have used both karaoke and non-karaoke tracks in my competition. The karaoke songs worked well, and when the staff wasn't notified that the file WASN'T Karaoke, it worked out fine. ("Running in the 90's" was a fine example of this for me)

When they DID know it was Karaoke, the quality was raped, I couldn't hear jack, and ultimately I couldn't sing on key to a song I couldn't hear. It's consistent.

May I request the option to NOT vocal-dampen non-karaoke songs? The cold, hard fact of the matter is, in some cases it'll be impossible to find a karaoke version of every song someone could sing in this competition; and when they DO just use the non-karaoke version, 9/10 times it's destroyed by the vocal dampening to a point where it just doesn't work, particularly in terms of volume. I saw many of my competitors motioning for the staff to bump up the volume, which occasionally was rewarded but ultimately served little to help. Perhaps what would fix the matter better is a slight increase of volume in the microphone.

I really have searched for the "official" karaoke versions of these songs (seeing as those are the only accepted variety) that I'd like to sing, but... they just aren't there to be found. I don't want to be shot down in the competition due to audio issues, either. Instead of facing that quandry, couldn't we just free up the option to sing with the file un-dampened? If I'm the only person with this issue, I'll stand down.
Haven't been here much since '09. I said some stupid, stupid things before (and after) that.

PyronIkari

Not Karaoke staff, but I'm fairly certain I can chime in for them concerning this(once more not official).

The reason they vocal dampen is, because they want to hear what you sound like. They don't want to hear what the original song sounds like. They vocal dampen so they can clearly hear you. Frankly, so what if the music sounds crappy compared to what it is supposed to sound like, that's not the point of karaoke.

Lots of people have brought this up before, but the response is the same. If people were allowed to use non vocal-dampen versions, it would be harder to judge the person singing.

I'll repeat, the quality of the music isn't what is being judged. Judges also dislike when they aren't told about non-karaoke versions as it does make it harder to judge a number of different things. If you NEED a non musical alteration because of vocal cues and stuff... maybe you should just learn the song better.

Edit: There are a few few few few few legitimate times that this argument is legitimate though. Songs that have no start up musical cue, but instead a vocal one(A DAI song comes to mind where it starts off with vocal and the startup cue is the singer breathing in). But I think in that case there is a karaoke version available. If this is the case, I'm sure if you got a hold of karaoke staff PRIOR and told them, they can work something out, like a visual cue of them starting the track, and time delay for the track to start would be given prior, but that's on you to work out.

You won't be shot down in the competition due to audio issues. The judges aren't that shallow, but if the music sounds crappy, and your voice doesn't, they will easilly be able to tell.

zoupzuop2

It's true that vocal dampening allows the judges to hear the singer better... but if the singer him/herself can't hear the song very well, what good is it unless they have perfect pitch? If the quality were lowered but the singer could still hear, then there'd be very little issue, and certainly not the problem I had and saw others have. Unfortunately, the dampening seems to hit volume AS WELL as quality.

That said, ultimately you make a good point. I did have one non-karaoke track that wasn't entirely raped of volume, so perhaps it was just poor luck on my end in terms of audio 'location' (in terms of stereo, most vocals are placed in the middle; some instruments are middle-only as well) in the less fortunate instance.

(Eurobeat has surprisingly low numbers of Karaoke versions of the songs... J-Euro, no problem, but Eurobeat tends to suffer...)
Haven't been here much since '09. I said some stupid, stupid things before (and after) that.

PyronIkari

Quote from: zoupzuop2 on February 23, 2009, 10:56:41 PM
It's true that vocal dampening allows the judges to hear the singer better... but if the singer him/herself can't hear the song very well, what good is it unless they have perfect pitch? If the quality were lowered but the singer could still hear, then there'd be very little issue, and certainly not the problem I had and saw others have. Unfortunately, the dampening seems to hit volume AS WELL as quality.

That said, ultimately you make a good point. I did have one non-karaoke track that wasn't entirely raped of volume, so perhaps it was just poor luck on my end in terms of audio 'location' (in terms of stereo, most vocals are placed in the middle; some instruments are middle-only as well) in the less fortunate instance.

(Eurobeat has surprisingly low numbers of Karaoke versions of the songs... J-Euro, no problem, but Eurobeat tends to suffer...)

You don't seem to understand how the dampening works, so let me explain. Dampening removes parts of track where the vocals are located. This would be all fine and dandy if this layer only contained the vocals, but usually other parts of the song are located here as well. The bass usually takes a hit from this and according to song it can remove other parts. The things is the song still plays exactly the same. Think of it like this. If you've ever heard Ready Steady Go and have the single to it, there's different tracks where each band member is removed. So there's a vocal-less version, a Non-tetsu version(no bass), non-Ken version(no lead guitar) etc. etc. etc.

So these single elements are removed from the song. The song is still exactly the same, it's just that these elements are removed. That is what vocal-dampening the karaoke people do. They remove that one section of the song, and some songs are more affected than others. The thing is, if you're karaoking a song for competition, you should know the song well enough to sing it without these elements. It won't sound exactly the same, but trust me, they're exactly the same. If you're musical musical cues, then you just need to learn the song better to where, you don't need these musical cues, and instead know the song based on the timing and note timing.

Eurobeat suffers a lot because eurobeat songs usually have most of everything near the same spectrum(I'm being as musically unelitist as possible by using terms hopefully everyone can understand). Uhm... how can I explain this.

Open up any MP3 player and turn on the base equalizer. You see those bars moving up and down? Yeah, shut three of them off completely. That's basically what they're doing. Now Eurobeat, most of the song use the same spectrum for everything, vocals, music, background etc. So by killing the vocals, you also kill a lot of what else goes on.

Unfortunately, there is no real alternative to this, without someone creating a program that can target only vocals(which is basically impossible if you know about music).

I'm trying to get the head of Karaoke to reply to this with an official statement, but he's busy and hasn't been online at all the past few days, but hopefully this answers your question.

Short of it, sorry kid, their ain't nothin that can be done. The vocal dampering serves a major purpose, and the hit to the music is something you have to cope with(which shouldn't be a problem if you really know the song you're singing). This is a competition and your lack of knowledge on the song will show even more, so try harder.

zoupzuop2

Quote from: PyronIkari on February 24, 2009, 12:05:10 AM
[Technical information about Dampening here... by the way, the explanation was very understandable. :) ]
Short of it, sorry kid, their ain't nothin that can be done. The vocal dampering serves a major purpose, and the hit to the music is something you have to cope with(which shouldn't be a problem if you really know the song you're singing). This is a competition and your lack of knowledge on the song will show even more, so try harder.
Fair enough. A little bit of a bummer, but I can definitely manage.
Haven't been here much since '09. I said some stupid, stupid things before (and after) that.