Creepy or not? Cosplayer/Photographer pointers for photos & cosplay

[Tenchi Fan]

If somehow the final picture doesn't come out the way you intended it to be, you can always ask e-mail or instant message the photographer to take down that picture - they'll honor the request.

I've done that, but I'm not sure if they were joking or not and I didn't want to chance it.

[Lizchan33]

This is a great help to those girls that want to cosplay but are nervous I'm glad you posted it Saphire! :3

[BSaphire]

Here is your lists:  ;D

Pointers on How to tell if a photographer is professional: 8)
1. Look to see if they have a "FANIME-CON" Press Badge.
Fanime-Con press badges are different from your attendee/staff/industry/guest/etc badges. They should say the name, company, badge number and PRESS on it. A press badge from Fanime means that person/company has met the business/convention requirements to receive a badge and doesn't mean you don't have to trust your gut... ALWAYS Trust YOU first!

This is inaccurate.

Obviously you haven't applied for Press badges. I always get turned away because
straight cosplay con photography doesn't count as official press, much less private shoots.

Just thought I should set that straight.

First of all I would like to thank everyone for their points on this subject & I will modify the second post to reflect a section for photogs later today. Thank you EBK for the support. :)

Now for the subject at large: I am sitting here typing this looking at my previous FANIME CON press badges. They have been bright neon green in the past and I hope they stick to that because it is easy to spot. My previous FANIME CON Press badges say my name, my business, a number & PRESS along with nice art and FanimeCon with the year. The same goes for my Sakura-Con Press badges and others.

Don't believe me? Try asking AX for a press badge and see what happens.

I have not attended AX so I do NOT have one of their press badges. I sometimes go and support a con as an attendee or help out being staff. Since 2005 I have been organizing the Cosplayer Gatherings @ Fanime and this year it has been made an official "STAFF" position so look for me to wear a "Staff" badge instead of a "Press" badge.

You pointed out that you have not been able to receive a "Press" badge for cosplayer con photography and there are many conventions that do not give them for just that. Many photographers I know do more than just shoot photos of cosplayers. Not all of those even apply for a press badge.

If you can't control what's around you, start controling what you can to the degree you feel comfortable going to the con.
Whining about photographers isn't going to solve anything.

I didn't start this thread over here for peeps to "Whin" about photographers, but I knew that there would be those that need to express their point of view about how & why the feel the way they do so I only ask that peeps be nice and make this a positive expression to help others and not a piss and moan about the wrongs of their past.

I agree that no one can totally control what is going on around them and that each should control themselves & act on what makes them feel uncomfortable by taking steps to re establish a comfortable zone for their self.

What one person may perceive as a threat another may not. By looking out for each other we are less likely to have harm come to one another.

I should also add, if the photog wants to pose with you, that's NOT professional.
The only people I pose with are close people I've known for years, and those are crack shots at best.

As for photographers posing with their subjects I will address this from ONLY my experience on the subject:

I am a costumer and a cosplayer along with a photographer and journalist. You can add to that a mother of 4 and a grandmother of 2 so know that this is the basis of my perspective:

I have shot photos of many cosplayers and professionals in various different fields. Many times I have been asked if I want to be in the photo with the people and most times I decline (as a photog) but I have stood along side David Williams (Executive Producer ADV) when he wanted a photo with "Puu" (a plushie I made of the character from YYH) him and I and asked an attendee to take it for him. I posed in my Izumi Curits (FMA) for Vic Mignogna's personal photo and I have taken pictures with several cosplayers because they have asked.

Being a person of several roles I try to respect each person and who they are from professional to attendee and I think every professional photographer I know is the same way. When we cosplay we stop and pose for pics just as we would ask someone else to do for us. I never ask them for a card, but have been given many. When we shoot photos we (the professional photogs I know) ask to take photos and give out a business card. Often I let the subject (s) see the photo (s) and I respect when I am asked to wait or even if I am told no they have always been polite.

It is my guess that you or someone you know has not been treated respectfully and for that I am sorry, however I would hope that no one is offended if I did ever want to pose with someone cosplaying a character I love for a photo because for me that is my way of saying I really respect the hard work into your costume, the quality of your costume, or even that I am impressed with the cosplayer's portrayal of the character, but that is me and not everyone.

Counter-points

1)
Creepy photogs? Sure they're in the wrong, but they're part of the con at this point.
It's part of the risk of going to the con. the photographer already can legally post it anywhere without your permission if he's not selling it (like flickr) legally - tough luck.
Walk away, dress more conservatively, get the boyfriend to be your bodyguard, etc etc. If you're that scared, then stop wearing the costume - just do something about it to end the uncomfortable situation.

2)
"guys are creepy" - I agree. But what about the girls what dress up in skimpy cosplay just for attention? Sexism goes both ways in any given situation.

On 1): It is true that there will be a "creepy" photog out there when you cosplay and these are good suggestions for many to help limit/reduce/eliminate the "Creepiness" of a situation.

On 2): "Creepy" has been a word used for mostly male photographers & more often by female cosplayers to describe a male photographer, but I have heard it used to describe one or two female photogs by both male & female cosplayers.

As a mother of three girls I want to put out there what I told them with the characters they choose to cosplay:

A cosplay is a physical representation of an artists drawing of a particular character. How that character is portrayed in the series is a product of the writers/directors/producers of the given series. In real life people will not see the sweet young girl portraying the character but rather the character being portrayed.

Most artists do not draw sweet innocent girls for the leading role with out something "bad" happening to that character. Most artists draw female characters with large breasts, scantily dressed, with seductive gestures, eyes, or movement. If they are innocent leading females they get shorter skirts with white bloomer shots, nit wit or naive personalities that lend a hand to their victimization or the villain doesn't succeed with out domination/destruction/possession/etc. of the given female character. Many times a female character is drawn and written to reflect many of both sides.

So when a female cosplayer is portraying a "revealing" costume they should note that how they are dressed could (and probably will) draw unwanted attention from others. Yes "sexism" does go both ways.

Thank you quantbits for posting your points and I do hope that they help some behave better and others to act proactively for their safety. ^^)

[Yuu]

I thank you for the compliment about the photography.  However, I don't appreciate someone I don't know (or maybe I do know) calling me "creepy."  I'm sorry, but that's just disrespectful..  go do that in 4chan, but not here..

Youve taken my picture a couple times before, ( and they were awesome thank you) but no, I dont know you.

At  every con I hear " Eurobeat King is a great photogropher but he only takes pictures of scantly clad women and MOE " 
Based on your galleries..Id say 'most' but not all.
So youve  got a reputation.


On the 'sexism goes both ways' - Its incredibly annoying and dont blame the photographers at all. A lot of them really are asking for it.

And the double standard UGH!  Even my best women friends get PISSED and leave if two male cosplaying are hugging, but dont even SEE it when female cosplayers hug, or generally do suggestive posses.

Im digressing, I know. I guess the main point is 'just say no'.

[BSaphire]

I have updated the second post to reflect many of the points that were listed.

I strongly urge those who have the desire to finger point or name call to not do that on this thread. If a photographer has made you feel like they were "creepy" in the past then post that this action or that behavior from photographers in general can come across as "creepy". Offer a suggestion on how to achieve the photos with out acting "creepy".

I don't want to see this thread digress into an ugly finger pointing childish post war. I will shut it down if it comes to that. I opened this up to everyone because each person does have something positive to offer in the way of advise and that is what I am looking for.

Thank you very much

BSaphire

BTW: I was wondering what everyone thinks of those people who come to Fanime to take pictures of the cosplayers out in the Fountain area with out a badge?

[Eurobeat King]

Youve taken my picture a couple times before, ( and they were awesome thank you) but no, I dont know you.

At  every con I hear " Eurobeat King is a great photographer but he only takes pictures of scantly clad women and MOE " 
Based on your galleries..Id say 'most' but not all.
So you've  got a reputation.

You're welcome for the pictures.  I'm glad you liked them.  If you do see me at Fanime and want pictures, feel free to say hi and i'll be happy to take pictures.  :D

I get bashed a lot, for the pictures I take, and for the pictures I don't take..  I've been going to cons for many years and have met a lot of people, and made a lot of friends.  So I do tend to take more pictures of my friends, I admit.  What costume(s) they choose to make is up to them.  So if you see a lot of pictures of the same cosplayer, it's because I know them. :)

BSaphire:  It's up to you to close this thread or not.  Since Quantumbits has yet to reply to your reply, his response will determine if he accepts your facts about your convention-experiences & photography.  From that point, it's your choice to keep it open or close it.   

[BSaphire]

As long as this thread stays positive and can help I will keep it open.

I too have had criticisms and I have learned from them, but no one can please everyone ALL the time so I have listened and adjusted where I have needed to.

I do admit that being a female photographer has been a benefit for me and that most male photographers will come across as "creepy" to someone somewhere at some point, but all we can do is try to be better people all the way around.

I'm glad that you are out there trying to grab photos of as many cosplayers as possible. I can attest that it is nearly impossible and anyone who tries to do it at a con the size of Fanime is just plain CRAZY! *giggle  ::)

Squidges
B

[BSaphire]

Should females view males that are scantly clad (like spartans) the same way females are viewed (like Mai from KOF). Would males take offense if they were treated the way some females have been treated?

What do you think?

[wonderfish]

I had a feeling a topic like this would be like opening a can of worms

Some people just don't take the subject seriously enough..

There are just too many creepy photographers and pervs that outnumber the polite photographers.  That's the case at EVERY convention..

Al, I'm going to have to take objection at that line.  There are definitely a number of creepy photographers out there, but I honestly do not believe they overwhelm the number of polite, or at least non-threatening ones.  I guess I have a little bit more faith in humanity and con attendees on this one.  If the majority of con photographers really were creeps, the best recommendation would then become "don't have your picture taken at all unless you know who it is".  And that's counterproductive overall.

This is inaccurate.

Obviously you haven't applied for Press badges. I always get turned away because
straight cosplay con photography doesn't count as official press, much less private shoots.

Depends on your con.  At some cons, this has been plenty sufficient to get a press badge.  At some cons, frankly, this is even MORE than sufficient.  This is from someone who has gotten press badges before and have known some of the people who have.

====

As for BSaphire's advice, while these are definitely indicators of a professional photographer, the problem is that press badges at some cons haven't been as hard to get perhaps as they should be.  As such, I would suggest not taking that as a be-all-end-all.  There is more at risk, admittedly, but this is definitely not a foolproof indicator by any means.  The remainder (courteousness, willingness to show pictures) are still fair signs, but these are also signs of someone who is being respectful as a photographer. 

If in doubt, definitely ask to see their photos (thank God for digital).  Ask for a business card/website.  But otherwise, I think in this regard, common sense is a good indicator to begin.  If you pay attention to what they're doing, hopefully you can catch them before they do something stupid.  Other than that, treat them as a stranger until you know better.  While it can't eliminate the snipers, this should at least help avoid most problems.  And if you do not trust your common sense well enough to know better, it always helps to have a friend with a second opinion.

And hell, strike up a conversation with some of us.  You'd be surprised how many of us are happy and willing to make friends and explain things.

And while I'd argue I could fit on that list you've created, BSaphire, I think it does a great disservice to create such a list that is so narrowly inclusive that potentially the wrong idea might be given: that whoever ISN'T on that list isn't to be trusted.  There are plenty of people who are NOT on that narrow list, who have been doing photography long enough that they've got the trust of several people who know them well, who have published good, even great photos, who are going to be at Fanime.  So for the purposes of keeping in line, don't let this be a note to include me.  I'd rather not.

Besides, I can keep plenty busy without people finding out I'm trustworthy. ;)

[Eurobeat King]

Al, I'm going to have to take objection at that line.  There are definitely a number of creepy photographers out there, but I honestly do not believe they overwhelm the number of polite, or at least non-threatening ones. 

Who is this, btw?  Only 3 posts here on the forums suggests a newbie, but seeing "i360" makes it sound like I know you.  Perhaps I was mistaken by saying there are more creepy-photographers at every con, and that's not the case for smaller conventions.  I guess it's just my witnessing of a large amount of these people at conventions like WonderCon, San Diego Comic Con, and Dragon-con.  The three I've mentioned are sci-fi/comic conventions, but I just don't want to see more anime conventions turning into these examples.  This year's CBFParade was a good example about how the # of creepy-photographers increased more and more each year. 

We'll see come 2 weeks..

[wonderfish]

Al, I'm going to have to take objection at that line.  There are definitely a number of creepy photographers out there, but I honestly do not believe they overwhelm the number of polite, or at least non-threatening ones. 

Who is this, btw?  Only 3 posts here on the forums suggests a newbie, but seeing "i360" makes it sound like I know you.  Perhaps I was mistaken by saying there are more creepy-photographers at every con, and that's not the case for smaller conventions.  I guess it's just my witnessing of a large amount of these people at conventions like WonderCon, San Diego Comic Con, and Dragon-con.  The three I've mentioned are sci-fi/comic conventions, but I just don't want to see more anime conventions turning into these examples.  This year's CBFParade was a good example about how the # of creepy-photographers increased more and more each year. 

We'll see come 2 weeks..

Well, obviously, I don't spend too much time on these forums (or on forums much anymore, to be honest.  Unfortunately, I've been really quiet on CosCom too as of late), because I waste way too much time on LJ anyway.  If I spent a lot of time posting on every forum for a convention I go to, I'd probably go a little nuts.  So of course my post count's going to be a little low.  It is me, Al.  I've been Jason as long as I know.  I am who my sig says I am, as there'd be little reason to impersonate a guy like me anyway.  At least, I hope so.  :P  I'm kind of surprised I remembered I had this account, as the last time I think I used this I was posting links to pictures up years ago (I've been lazy about that too; I need to fix that).  I don't use this handle often, only when I'm bored and don't feel like going by some variant of first initial last name instead.

The issue I have isn't with the idea that there aren't creepy photographers out there.  We both know there are, and they probably exist at every event.  Admittedly, being stuck down here in So. Cal, I couldn't see how many people there were out in force at the CBF, but that's more of an open-to-the-public type event anyway, one where the audience isn't there to see anime or cosplay.  I just don't like the idea of thinking that there are more of them out there than there are people who are just doing this and having fun.  I'm not worried about the vast majority of photographers out there.  There's no reason to be.  There's plenty of reason to worry about the few questionable ones, but I believe they are few, and they generally aren't so sophisticated as to not be noticeable.

Yes, those three events will likely have more of them.  Those events are also driven by the public at large.  D*C's nature doesn't help it.  I've definitely had my share of issues with some of the attendees at SDCC, especially drunk masquerade hecklers. :/

I'd rather people not be scared and not be willing to have pictures taken though just because a few bad eggs are out there ruining things for everyone else.  A little common sense goes a long way.

[BSaphire]

Hello there Jason ^^) I haven't listed all the professional photographers out there and I wasn't sure who from i360 would be coming to shoot. Does that mean you are? The photographers list is mearly a list of photogs who frequent Fanime to shoot photos and where they are from. I would like to add your name to the list so that people can expect to find someone representing i360 shooting pics.

I wanted to clarify that I did state that a Press badge doesn't mean they are ok ...
"1. Look to see if they have a "FANIME CON" Press Badge.
Fanime-Con press badges are different from your attendee/staff/industry/guest/etc badges. They should say the name, company, badge number and PRESS on it.
A press badge from Fanime means that person/company has met the business/convention requirements to receive a badge and doesn't mean you don't have to trust your gut... ALWAYS Trust YOU first! "

So I changed it to this:
Pointers on How to tell if a photographer is professional: 8)
1. Look to see if they have a "FANIME CON" Press Badge.
Fanime-Con press badges are different from your attendee/staff/industry/guest/etc badges. They should say the name, company, badge number and PRESS on it.
A press badge from Fanime means that person/company has met the business/convention requirements to receive a badge and doesn't mean you don't have to trust your gut... ALWAYS Trust YOU first!


I also went ahead and added some advice to the Known Photogs list:

"Known Photographers & where they are from: :)
This list is provided so that you know some of the company photographers out there. You be the judge and trust your instincts or ask your friends their opinion on any photographer. If you change your mind that is ok. :)

01. Brocas & Star ~ California Cosplay Times
02. BSaphire ~ Blue Saphire Productions & Fanime Cosplayer Gatherings Organizer
03. Derek Shaw ~ Fanime Official Photographer ~ Derek Shaw Photography
04. EurobeatKing ~ Cosplay.com
05. Llyonel ~ LLNN ~ usagichan2.com
06. Robert Sr. ~ Consplayers.com
07. Super No.1 ~ super-no1.com
08. Traveling Valentine ~ scarlet-rhapsody.com
09.
10."

I am not trying to do a disservice to any photographers out there because their name is not on the list that is why I added numbers. The ones I placed were the ones on the top of my head at the time. So PLEASE let me know whom from i360 will be coming and I will add them. ^^) I expected this list to have been the longest one out of all of them... :P

Between EBK & you I'm sure you could name off some photogs and their company so that list can get bigger... right ;)

I really liked how you phrased this:
If you pay attention to what they're doing, hopefully you can catch them before they do something stupid.  Other than that, treat them as a stranger until you know better.  While it can't eliminate the snipers, this should at least help avoid most problems.
This is good advice and goes along with trusting your instincts or the advice of your friends. I agree with this too...
And hell, strike up a conversation with some of us.  You'd be surprised how many of us are happy and willing to make friends and explain things.
I enjoy meeting new people and I have some really great friends because of a picture starting a conversation that progressed into a friendship.

I'm glad you posted Jason and you wouldn't have to "argue" any point with me to be on the list cause I will add you to it... just let me know if there are any other i360 photogs coming.

[BSaphire]

There are definitely a number of creepy photographers out there, but I honestly do not believe they overwhelm the number of polite, or at least non-threatening ones.... 

At Fanime I have noticed an increase in "Creepy" photographers since 2004 butthat number is but a handful compared to the numbers of polite or non-threatening photographers. Something like 1 creepy for every 10 polite :)

...The issue I have isn't with the idea that there aren't creepy photographers out there.  We both know there are, and they probably exist at every event.  Admittedly, being stuck down here in So. Cal, I couldn't see how many people there were out in force at the CBF, but that's more of an open-to-the-public type event anyway, one where the audience isn't there to see anime or cosplay....

I too have noticed an increased number of them at comic, scifi, and outdoor event as compared to anime type events.

The thing that has me concerned is the average age of the attendee at a comic or scifi event is 20+ and the average age at an anime event is 15. My concern comes from the fact that so many children are there and less adults so the "Creepy" photogs can operate easier with in the confines of this youthful, innocent, excited, naive group who are still young enough to sort of "trust" the adults they come in contact with.
PLEASE NOTE the majority of us adults there are looking out for their safety and are to be trusted... BUT THEY MUST ALWAYS TRUST THEIR SELF FIRST!
That is where the possible problem could come into play. If all of us nice people look out for each other then the risk decreases. If everyone is much more aware of their surroundings, who to go to for help or advice, or know where a "Safe" area is then it lessens the chance even further.

...I just don't like the idea of thinking that there are more of them out there than there are people who are just doing this and having fun.  I'm not worried about the vast majority of photographers out there.  There's no reason to be.  There's plenty of reason to worry about the few questionable ones, but I believe they are few, and they generally aren't so sophisticated as to not be noticeable....

I too believe they are few and the good are many just want to raise awareness to the possible problem and give positive advice from EVERYONE on prevention, things to do, things not to do, and where to go if needed. As you stated in a prior post: "If you pay attention to what they're doing, hopefully you can catch them before they do something stupid.  Other than that, treat them as a stranger until you know better.  While it can't eliminate the snipers, this should at least help avoid most problems."

...I'd rather people not be scared and not be willing to have pictures taken though just because a few bad eggs are out there ruining things for everyone else.  A little common sense goes a long way.

Though common sense goes a long way... teenagers don't always use that first :P I just want the noobies out there to know that many of us look out for them so that they can enjoy their convention experience.

[Nina Star 9]

I personally find this to be a great list of tips. You can't really change the photographers, but you can be more aware and more confident and know how to avoid creeps. You should be able to cosplay who you want (within reason, meaning how much skin you are comfortable with showing and how much skin is prudent to show in the Fanime envrionment) without having to be paranoid.


I have a couple more tips, mostly for females, and hopefully people do this anyway, but I have seen some unflattering shots where these things would come into play (and unflattering angles in real life where these things come into play...).

- Make sure your costume fits! This is already addressed partly, but make sure that your skirt/shorts don't ride up, your top doesn't gap, etc. Also know your body type and how to cover yourself, especially if you are busty and wearing something low-cut. If you don't have the right skills to pattern something that fits, then either alter it, get help (from a friend/parent/whoever or by comissioning that piece), or choose a new costume. You don't want too much skin showing because you didn't realize your skirt had ridden up or when you leaned over, your boobs spilled out.

- When in doubt, use bodytape. Even if something doesn't fit perfectly, this stuff can at least hold it in place to fake the fit. Plus, it prevents too much skin from showing.

- For added protection, shorts, opaque tights, and bodysuits can be worn. Again, you don't want to accidentally show too much. If you are afraid of a panty shot, then prevent one to begin with. This is especially important in short skirts with fullness (like a pleated sailor fuku skirt) and especially if it is full enough to require petticoats, because the swing the skirt and the skirt standing away from the body makes accidental panty shots really easy.


Not really relevant to the creepiness, but cosplayers, please wear some makeup! It only really has to be powder, mascara, and maybe a touch of blush (if you have acne, like me, then skip the blush unless you can find some miracle blush that doesn't accentuate the redness... in which case tell me!), but it makes your photos look so much better. Even better if you wear more that is skillfully applied to look natural and lovely (or unnatural and lovely, depending on the character, haha).


I hope this helps somewhat.

[Neo-Zaku]

Ok, after reading some of the comments here I am a little concerned. It seems like photographers (particularly male ones) are being made out to be the bad guys. So what can us male photographers do to ensure we don't get a bad rap?

Personally I stick with being polite, asking permission, always showing them a copy of the picture before they go, getting a picture of everyone (both as individuals and a group) if they traveling as a group, letting them pose themself and making sure to thank them when I am done. I don't carry business card because I am taking pictures as a fan, not a business or service. Is this something I should change, even if I only post the pictures of myself and my friends?

[Stormfalcon]

Ok, after reading some of the comments here I am a little concerned. It seems like photographers (particularly male ones) are being made out to be the bad guys. So what can us male photographers do to ensure we don't get a bad rap?

Personally I stick with being polite, asking permission, always showing them a copy of the picture before they go, getting a picture of everyone (both as individuals and a group) if they traveling as a group, letting them pose themself and making sure to thank them when I am done. I don't carry business card because I am taking pictures as a fan, not a business or service. Is this something I should change, even if I only post the pictures of myself and my friends?

There is a number of us that would be in the same boat, yeah.  I'm not a professional photographer (so no business card for me either), but I do enjoy taking pictures as a fan, but I make it a point to be polite about asking for pictures if they aren't already posing for them, respecting the wishes of the cosplayer in any given instance, and I post the pictures publically (my Fanime cosplay photography link is right in my signature here).  However, the way the thread's been worded, it gives the impression that only professional photographers with business cards are to be trusted and anyone not in that category can assumed to be creepy.  It might not have been the intended tone, but the impression is given.

[Yuu]

Youve taken my picture a couple times before, ( and they were awesome thank you) but no, I dont know you.

At  every con I hear " Eurobeat King is a great photographer but he only takes pictures of scantly clad women and MOE " 
Based on your galleries..Id say 'most' but not all.
So you've  got a reputation.

You're welcome for the pictures.  I'm glad you liked them.  If you do see me at Fanime and want pictures, feel free to say hi and i'll be happy to take pictures.  :D

I get bashed a lot, for the pictures I take, and for the pictures I don't take..  I've been going to cons for many years and have met a lot of people, and made a lot of friends.  So I do tend to take more pictures of my friends, I admit.  What costume(s) they choose to make is up to them.  So if you see a lot of pictures of the same cosplayer, it's because I know them. :)

  Ill  do that. I only like to have my pictures taken by prooffesionals because Im SOO not photogenic  and pros know all the lighting/angling tricks to make me look better.

A friend of mine has met you a few times,he was the first person who said you had rep for being 'creepy'. I asked him about it. He said 'HE' personally didnt think so and figured that it had to do with 'supply and demand" of a proffesional photographerl. I didnt consider that but it doesnt seem unliklely.


Meh, I really dont think 'professional' or 'unprofessional" has any standing on wether or not their 'creepy". Hell, it could be that they're 'smart creeps' who figured out that a business card gives them free reign.

Like I said Ive got a firend who is a pro but anyone who knows him persoanlly knows hes a PERV.

[Anna]

This is off topic, but to Eurobeat King I actually enjoy your photographs and admire you for taking so many. I don't think you're creepy at allll :)

And I think it's fine when the photographer takes a picture with the cosplayer- I mean if I was a fangirl of some anime character/I saw a really good looking Cloud, I would definitely want to take a picture next to him.
...Yeah :)

[wonderfish]

Hello there Jason ^^) I haven't listed all the professional photographers out there and I wasn't sure who from i360 would be coming to shoot. Does that mean you are? The photographers list is mearly a list of photogs who frequent Fanime to shoot photos and where they are from. I would like to add your name to the list so that people can expect to find someone representing i360 shooting pics.

(snip)

I am not trying to do a disservice to any photographers out there because their name is not on the list that is why I added numbers. The ones I placed were the ones on the top of my head at the time. So PLEASE let me know whom from i360 will be coming and I will add them. ^^) I expected this list to have been the longest one out of all of them... :P

While I do know who is going from my group (and yes, I am one of them; I've missed I think only 1 Fanime in the last 5 years), my concern still stands that any such list you could create probably could not be all-inclusive of all the known cosplay photographers.  To me, this is a concern, because I'd rather there not be official recognition at the con level of anyone as a photographer unless the photographer is a standing member of staff or organization (read: you and Derek offhand, and whoever is acting on behalf of staff).

The problem is that one could argue anyone NOT on the list is at a distinct disadvantage.  Those with press badges probably should be held at slightly higher trust than anyone without it, if only because they are supposed to be at least looked over at least once, even if they can't and shouldn't be held in absolute trust.  That said, I'm pretty sure everyone or almost everyone you've listed actually will have a press badge or staff badge, and that includes our group for the most part.  So I'll stick to "thanks for the invitation, but I respectfully decline".

I have no objections with who you have on the list. I simply object to the idea of a list.

I wanted to clarify that I did state that a Press badge doesn't mean they are ok ...
"1. Look to see if they have a "FANIME CON" Press Badge.
Fanime-Con press badges are different from your attendee/staff/industry/guest/etc badges. They should say the name, company, badge number and PRESS on it.
A press badge from Fanime means that person/company has met the business/convention requirements to receive a badge and doesn't mean you don't have to trust your gut... ALWAYS Trust YOU first! "

So I changed it to this:
Pointers on How to tell if a photographer is professional: 8)
1. Look to see if they have a "FANIME CON" Press Badge.
Fanime-Con press badges are different from your attendee/staff/industry/guest/etc badges. They should say the name, company, badge number and PRESS on it.
A press badge from Fanime means that person/company has met the business/convention requirements to receive a badge and doesn't mean you don't have to trust your gut... ALWAYS Trust YOU first!

Ahh, okay. I did overlook that, and I apologize.

At Fanime I have noticed an increase in "Creepy" photographers since 2004 butthat number is but a handful compared to the numbers of polite or non-threatening photographers. Something like 1 creepy for every 10 polite :)

And this to me is a key and important point.  Like how swine flu really has been overplayed a bit in the press for being an issue, while there are enough questionable photographers to raise concern, I think emphasis needs to be on the fact that overall, con attendees are overall a safe and pleasant group to be with, including the photographers.  Fair enough to raise warning and such, but I want to make sure there isn't a big overreaction to things.

I too have noticed an increased number of them at comic, scifi, and outdoor event as compared to anime type events.

The thing that has me concerned is the average age of the attendee at a comic or scifi event is 20+ and the average age at an anime event is 15. My concern comes from the fact that so many children are there and less adults so the "Creepy" photogs can operate easier with in the confines of this youthful, innocent, excited, naive group who are still young enough to sort of "trust" the adults they come in contact with.
PLEASE NOTE the majority of us adults there are looking out for their safety and are to be trusted... BUT THEY MUST ALWAYS TRUST THEIR SELF FIRST!
That is where the possible problem could come into play. If all of us nice people look out for each other then the risk decreases. If everyone is much more aware of their surroundings, who to go to for help or advice, or know where a "Safe" area is then it lessens the chance even further.

It's true, admittedly. They can operate easier.  Most of the top post is fine, and I agree with the point of it (again, except the list).  The problem is I want to make sure that it's clear that list or not, most of us aren't threats.   It's a small caveat, but it's an important one.

I think as long as everyone's keeping a general eye for each other's backs and being a good citizen in terms of watching for the safety of the group in general, this problem is containable without needing to dig into things like whitelists.  Admittedly, blacklists are more problematic, but neither of these seem a better solution to me than just listing the warnings.  That's all.

[BSaphire]

Ok, after reading some of the comments here I am a little concerned. It seems like photographers (particularly male ones) are being made out to be the bad guys. So what can us male photographers do to ensure we don't get a bad rap?

Personally I stick with being polite, asking permission, always showing them a copy of the picture before they go, getting a picture of everyone (both as individuals and a group) if they traveling as a group, letting them pose themself and making sure to thank them when I am done. I don't carry business card because I am taking pictures as a fan, not a business or service. Is this something I should change, even if I only post the pictures of myself and my friends?

Thank you Neo-Zaku & Stormfalcon for being polite, asking permission and showing the pics you took. These things help cosplayers to know that you are a respectful and nice "fan" photographer. There is nothing wrong with that and there are many like both of you out there (& male ^^)

A nice attitude, behavior, and conversation are the best ways to show that you are not a "creepy" type photographer.... business card or not. If you are posting them anywhere public on the web you should let them know where so that they can see them again later should they choose to.

... However, the way the thread's been worded, it gives the impression that only professional photographers with business cards are to be trusted and anyone not in that category can assumed to be creepy.  It might not have been the intended tone, but the impression is given.

? Where did I say someone was or was not creepy... ?

Pointers on How to tell if a photographer is professional:  8)
Known Photographers & where they are from:  :)
Pointers for the Photographers:"Fan" or "Professional"  :D

Oh yeah! I said "Creepy" in the title of the thread:

Creepy or not? Cosplayer pointers for photos and photographers

So I meant that to be like Either Or, One or the Other, that type of thing, but the real meaning is Cosplayer pointers for photos and photographers. The Known Photographers & Where they are from does NOT say "Non creepy" just that they are known photographers by cospeeps out there.

I have added more names to the list & included to the term "fan" photographers in a couple of areas. Most male photographers are not "creepy" in general and are very well behaved. My point is that a cosplayer should trust their feelings on a person and/or ask a trusted friend to keep their self safe.

Nina Star 9: Thanks for your tips and I will be adding some of those pointers to the list ^^)

Ill  do that. I only like to have my pictures taken by professionals because I'm SOO not photogenic  and pros know all the lighting/angling tricks to make me look better... Meh, I really don't think 'professional' or 'unprofessional" has any standing on whether or not their 'creepy".

I have met many cosplayers who feel non-photogenic because of the photos of their past. It makes me that much more excited when I get pics they REALLY like of them :) I agree with you Yuu that "professional" or "unprofessional" shouldn't determine if someone is "CREEPY" or NOT. :P

wonderfish: I respect & understand your view on the list of "known photographers" and I had a choice to put it there and wait for the post (s) that started asking who some of the "known photogs" were... or put up the list and just clarify as much as possible that these are just a few of the photographers cospeeps and attendees know. After all they should be the ones who could tell everyone else who some of the professional photogs are.

There have been a few other issues that have happened over the years out in the Fountain area. I didn't want this thread to digress into those past events so I chose this slippery slope instead of all those others ^^) Good thing I strapped on suction cups :P Seriously though it may help a few of them to locate professional photogs for some private group photos if the photog has time or maybe remind a few of them of someone that did have pics last year and they forgot to go look. ^^)

Thank you wonderfish for posting though because it helps me to clarify certain areas better and expand on some points more or retract from others. Please find me at con and say hello. If I remember right you and I have met and it has been a few years since we have seen each other. :)

I'm glad that peeps are reading this and putting up advice. It is a REALLY Good thing ^^)

Squidges
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