Feedback for the 2009 Black and White Ball and Dance Lessons during Fanime

Started by tkdteo, May 25, 2009, 01:22:56 AM

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jemz

Hello everyone! I'm glad that so many people had a wonderful time at this year's Black and White Ball. It's been an overwhelmingly positive response to everyone who's worked so hard on this event.

I'd like to address a few of the topics that were brought up.


Facilities
I read a suggestion about having the Ball at Ballroom J1-J3. We did this last year and there were major issues concerning line control as well as dress code. Because the Dance started right after the Ball last year, the dress code mix up was inevitable. This year, we wanted to separate the Black and White Ball from the Dance by giving the Ball its own location and a longer time frame. We are more than pleased with the Ball being at the Fairmont. It lent a very romantic and elegant air to the event.

I can't release the numbers for the event just yet but needless to say, more people came to the event than last year. That's amazing and we will definitely keep the suggestion for a bigger space in mind.


Food
As we had no control on what the Fairmont served, we will keep your feedback in mind and offer them suggestions for next year.


Flooring
The floor was a major concern and we will take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again. We want our attendees to be having fun and not worry about safety hazards other than bumping into each other on the dance floor.


Admission/Age Limit/Dance Test
I'm actually against this. This event is for all attendees, not a select few who meet the requirements (i.e. paid admission, dance test, age limit). This event was created with the purpose of it being something unique and fun to offer to the attendees. We offered ballroom lessons so that they can try out newly learned moves at a formal dance and gain a new interest.

I understand the frustrations of having too many people on the dance floor that are just lingering or not following the proper line of dance as well as not knowing how to dance and parodying certain moves. But many people are new to ballroom dancing and want to go to something that allows them to dress up elegantly and practice newly learned moves. I don't want to punish them for not knowing that they are being hazardous to other people dancing but we can consider other options in addressing this particular issue.


Lessons on Day Zero
Starting things off on Day Zero was a new experiment for FanimeCon. We wanted to give a small taste of the fun that was to come and it looked like it was highly successful.

The only thing about doing Dance lessons in the evening in Ballroom J is whether or not the room is set up in time and if there will be another event that night. Attendees don't really think about how much time it takes to set up a single room. They get to the convention, they get their badge, they go do things in rooms that are already opened for them to have fun. Behind the scenes, however, it takes a lot longer to set up and make sure everything is in place before allowing attendees to enter.


Thank you to everyone who's been giving us feedback and praise. We want to constantly improve and we can't do it without hearing it from our attendees and instructors. Many of the executive staff stopped by and had a wonderful time.
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Drk-X

QuoteI understand the frustrations of having too many people on the dance floor that are just lingering or not following the proper line of dance as well as not knowing how to dance and parodying certain moves.

Well, for them to have fun with what they have is one thing, but being a hazard to others is another. Goofing around (I once again bring up the hollywood tango, which I was hit by a few times) can be detrimental to the efforts of other congoers who are trying to have fun. The line of dance's main purpose is ensuring a proper flow. Going against the flow can lead to nasty accidents that we certainly do not want to be liable for. As for idling, there's no reason it needs to be done on the dance floor.
Quotei've seen complaints on music selection; not only because people didn't like the music but because more experienced dancers felt that the music selection didn't qualify for the dance it was for. maybe a suggestion for this is to have a few experienced dancers on staff for whoever is in charge of music choice for the ball?
For music, we will indeed be paying more mind to the playlist for next year, so hopefully things will be better in that regard at the next ball.

-Dan

unluckycharm13

By reading the recent comments posted, I agree with most of them and can see their points of views. However, we have seemed to have forgotten to put safety first.

The arguments I have seen used most consistently is that of dancers of any level standing on the floor doing nothing being acceptable, conga lines being acceptable at any time, and people charging across the room being okay as long as they are having fun.

I understand that people come here to have a good time, meet new people,hang out with friends, and much more. But we REALLY need to put the safety of others first before saying "It's okay, they just want to have fun." when injuries could potentially happen.

Having a sticky and seperating floor did nothing to help the situation and made the fear of crashing into people who were and weren't dancing even worse.

Yes, injuries can happen when people get carefree on the dance floor and stop thinking about the others around them on a crowded dance floor.
People standing around on the floor who are not dancing are a bit of a hazard because they are at risk of being crashed into and may not know it since their backs may be facing a good portion of the people who are dancing.
People who are in a long conga line can be hazardous because they have the highest risk of crashing into people who are dancing in place, traveling, or not dancing at all on the floor.
People who are charging across the floor in their own fashion are hazardous because most of these people are going in the opposite direction. Because of this, the probability of crashing is much higher. Not to mention, because of the crowded floor itself, the chances of feet being stepped on are significantly higher and having one's feet stepped on by high heels or any heel on a dress shoe REALLY hurts! I know this because this has happened to me in the past!
Therefore, my take home message to everyone is: have a blast at the ball; but remember, we all need to remember that safety comes first!

Please feel free to make any more suggestions that you have concerning safety at the B&W Ball.

Thanks,
Elizabeth


lil_koala

Hi, Lillian here. For those who don't know/remember me, I would drop by with my friend, Christine and ended up being an assistant on Sunday.

First off, I want to say that I did have a lot of fun at the B&W ball. But perhaps that was more so because of the people I hung out with than the ball itself cause I didn't get to dance much.

I think pretty much all the concerns that I have have already been addressed here so I'll try not to be redundant.

I think the admission fee would work well for those who don't have a badge as long as they follow the rules. I know that some people would like to bring guests who don't attend Fanime to the ball. Of course, that would only work if we have a bigger place that can hold more people. I liked that the ball was at the Fairmont Hotel because it is very pretty there. Perhaps we can get one of the actually ballrooms there for next year?

I disagree with having less dances because obviously not everyone wants to learn the same dance as shown by different people who showed up for different lessons. If anything, we should offer more lessons and help people learn the dances they want to learn. Also, it would be nice if there was more time in between each lesson so that people can actually ask questions and clarification before the next lesson starts. That would also give the instructors a bit of a break. And I think there should also be more assistants who know what they're doing actually show up and help out. (Maybe Chris and Ryan can help out next year? That way we have people we know we can depend on.)

Oh and another thing that really bugged me, people jumping in the mixers without knowing how to dance. The mixers were fun and I think we should have more of them but not if people don't know what they are doing. The waltz one went okay but the foxtrot...I danced with two guys that didn't know what they were doing so I basically had to teach them right there just so we can get across the floor. That was not fun.

Other than that, I believe everything has been mentioned so I'll leave it at that.
2012-2016 B&W Ball Staff

Snowchef

well i do agree that less dances might be better than more, but can i still request that argentine tango be in there.

Drk-X

I disagree on opting for less dances. EC Swing, Rumba, Cha-cha, Waltz, Foxtrot, Tango, make up the core beginner dancers and are considered the staple must-haves. Salsa also gets thrown in there because it is immensely popular (especially in California), easy, and accessible.

Personally, I'd like to throw out Nightclub Two-Step in favor of Disco Hustle. The music seems to appeal to people more and it's very accessible to beginning dancers. The Disco Hustle beginner class seemed VERY well received on Saturday compared to the other open floor classes. It just seems so much more fun than two-step, which I consider to be a bit of a lazier dance.

Also, while the intro classes sound nice in theory, I didn't think they helped that much. People would have to learn the basic movements in the actual class anyway, so they might as well do so in a class set to give them enough to be able to perform the dance legitimately in a social environment as well as be able to focus on solely that dance style. If a taste is what we want to give people, just a visual demonstration would suffice. I could even prepare videos that could be linked to from the convention's website if people can't make the scheduled demos.

If we cut those, we gain two more hours, which could be used for the desired new dance (Argentine Tango seems to be winning so far).

lilfry14

I would like to see more intermediate dance lessons next year. I have learned the basic steps to the majority of the dances, but when I only know the basic step, a quarter turn and maybe a promenade, and not even an underarm turn, that isn't much for a 4 minute dance. (Props to our excellent dance instructors though since I realize there was time limit.)  I think there was only intermediate lessons for east coast swing, disco hustle, foxtrot, and salsa, and all those were offered at the same time so you had to choose which one you wanted.

Bigger dance floor would be cool. I couldn't keep with the line of dance as there was nowhere for me to move. ANd then a bunch of people were not even moving so if I tried to keep with the line of dance, I'd be weaving in and out of people creating more of a hazard. 

I was looking forward to getting to dance in the mixers, but then all 5 of my partners I had during the mixers did not know the dance. I do not know if it is dance etiquette to line up for a dance you don't know how to do, but maybe that is something that could be addressed or announced. Maybe you could have a mixer line of those who know the dance and a mixer line of those who don't know the dance. But then maybe that would just result in a bunch of people who don't know the dance clogging up the dance floor.

I really liked how the dance was 5 hours and then towards the end, it became less crowded as the less hardcore dancers fleeted out.

Drk-X

I'd love to offer intermediate patterns. There were a good number of students that I just LOVED teaching due to their enthusiasm and it's always good to award enthusiasm. The time restraints make it a bit difficult, but perhaps there can be something that can be done.

-Dan

unluckycharm13

Quote from: lilfry14 on May 27, 2009, 05:46:26 PM
I would like to see more intermediate dance lessons next year. I have learned the basic steps to the majority of the dances, but when I only know the basic step, a quarter turn and maybe a promenade, and not even an underarm turn, that isn't much for a 4 minute dance. (Props to our excellent dance instructors though since I realize there was time limit.)  I think there was only intermediate lessons for east coast swing, disco hustle, foxtrot, and salsa, and all those were offered at the same time so you had to choose which one you wanted.

I am happy to hear that people are interested in more intermediate lessons since the beginner patterns can get old pretty fast. Dan and I would be more than happy to teach more intermediate lessons. The only problem is where to fit them in since people seemed open to learning many different dances throughout the day. One option would be instead of having the "introduction to dance" lesson, we could have short video clips on the internet or at the con of what the dances look like and give a preview of what patterns would be taught.
Another point, with a class of 30 or more people(one East Coast Swing class had 118 students while a Waltz class had 92 students!), getting most of the class to understand the basic step of a dance is more difficult than one would think since everyone learns at a different pace(the lack of assistants at times didn't help either). Therefore, we really tried to get in as many moves as we could with the time given. If there was more time however, we would have been more than happy to teach more patterns to everyone :).

boots01

Hi Everybody!

First off, thanks to everyone who came!

I want to briefly address a few of the comments that have come up repeatedly.  I'll start with the flooring.

This year is the first time we've had to go with an outside vendor for the flooring.  We chose a vendor that was within our budget and were very disappointed with the flooring they provided.  It seems that they had to use 3 different floors to get the floor to the size we required.  With this came problems of alignment and connectivity.  While there was a minor issue during setup, it was very early on and they had plenty of time to correct the problem - which they did (or tried to anyway).  As the flooring got finished, we found that panels weren't lining up.  This wasn't actually due to a minor shift at the front, but rather a discrepancy in the size of the panels they were using.  We will be doing our best to make sure that we don't run into these particular issues again.

Music Choice: The idea behind the music for the ball is as follows; use as much Japanese music as possible from sources like anime, video games, and other Japanese artists.  Second to this comes using American and/or Latin music.  In addition, we try to find music that will be entertaining to the majority of the attendees.  I realize some of the music may have seemed out there somewhat (death metal macerena for example) but think about it this way: Did it make you laugh when you realized what it was?  Could you participate in the dance?  These are things we try to keep in mind as we work on the music.

Lessons: This year, we really tried to offer a wider variety with more experienced instructors.  I think we succeeded there.  A clock during the lessons is a great idea and we'll see what we can do about it for next year.  As to the styles we offered, we tried to choose a variety of styles that would appeal to the majority of people.  We will look at refining things for next year.

Etiquette: While we do go over basic etiquette at the lessons, not everyone can make them.  We will look into maybe having a large poster size version of both the dress code and the etiquette for next year.

Food/Drinks: This year, with the move to the Fairmont, we had the opportunity to offer both food and beverages for those in attendance.  We left the selection up to the hotel.  At first, things were rather pricey, but they soon realized that their price point was too high for those who were there.  They did eventually lower the prices and when I personally went out to get a soda, it only cost me $1.  I was amazed at how affordable it was.  If we stick with the Fairmont next year, we may be able to work with them more on the types of items offered and the prices they are offered at.  From what I understand, once they lowered the prices, they sold significantly more.

Size of the room: This year, we moved to the Regency ball room at the Fairmont.  The room was only slightly smaller than the full J at the convention center (only about 1-200 sq ft).  It also provided a more romantic feel to the event which wouldn't have been possible in the J.  The room was also in the range of 1/3 larger than last year's room.  I noticed how tight the floor was and we tried to implement some line control but due to the location of the ballroom, it was difficult to control the access to the room.  Next time, we may ask the hotel if the elevators can be programed to not stop on the second floor though I don't know how feasible that would be.  With the event growing as it is, we are again going to be looking at viable locations to hold it.  If we go back to the Fairmont, we will have to determine if we want to try for a larger room or, if we stay put, do we try to enforce line control and room capacity more fervently.  If we go elsewhere, where do we go and what challenges await us there are all things we will need to consider.

The Black and White Ball is an event that is constantly evolving and growing.  We are always looking at ways we can improve the ball to make it more fun for everyone.  Again, to reiterate what Jim posted earlier, we are always open to suggestions for music etc.  We do request though that if you want something put into consideration, please do try to send an mp3 along with the request, or at minimum, a link to the mp3 so we can download it ourselves.

Again, thank you all for all the feedback and keep it coming.  The ball, like Fanime, is by fans, for fans.  This means that while we ourselves are fans, we do it for you, the fans, as well.
-Eugene
2001 Video Programming Staffer
2002 Acting Video Programming Head
2003-5 Masquerade 2nd.
2006 Special Projects
2007-9 BW Ball Head
2010 Yamaga Party Coordinator
2011 HR Staffer

sigh,

so much anime to watch, so little time

fma4theworld

ohayo minnasan~ ^_^ i made an account just to post feedback!

i thought that the all this year was great fun! it was a little bit crowded and i got hit a couple times and had my toes stepped on once. i agree that we should have a bigger room next year. but the room this year was still really pretty!

anyways, i don't think we should have an age limit, it's really not fair to the younger fans. and we also should have an entrance fee, we already pay so much for the con anyways.

anyways, i really don't see whats wrong with not everyone knowing how to ballroom dance. you can't expect everyone to know to to dance formally there. i had a lot of fun with my friends dancing normally. if people what to do ballroom dancing maybe they should just have some sort of ball room dancing event just for them instead of trying to make everyone else dance like them. the conga line was fun and people have only themselves to blame if they don't know how to get out of the way.

also you guys should make the dress code vey clear. you didn't mention anything about shoes and i had to get my parents to drop off more formal shoes before i went.

the music was loud and i didn't really agree with all the music selection. we should have more jpop or even kpop. that wou ld be really cool!

anyways, the ball was a blast this year, but did it really have to be so far away from the convention center? it's a long walk on tired feed espeecially if you've been walking around all day already.

oh yeah, we should also have more chairs. people kept sittin gin the chairs we claimed alreadu. it was really annoying so we should have more chairs.

Drk-X

Quotethe conga line was fun and people have only themselves to blame if they don't know how to get out of the way.

The rest of the feedback was fine, but once again, I must disagree here.

Safety is a huge concern and with the event being catered as a ballroom dance function (Black and White Ball... Ballroom Dance....), those are the set of rules and etiquette to be adhered to. There NEEDS to be flow and people SHOULD be mindful of the potential hazard they can be to people around them. Also, people have the right to have fun, but having your foot stepped on by high heels REALLY hurts. Fun? I think not. Painful? Oh yes, I would know. Even in a crowd of experienced ballroom dancers, accidents happen.

So unless you consider crashing into fellow congoers, having your dance path blocked by a wall of idling dancers paying no consideration to those around them, having your feet stepped on, having your face hit by somebody's flailing arms, or having people run into your knees (this DOES happen and it is a VERY serious problem; injured knees due to horsing around = Goodbye ball) as your idea of fun, I would put more thought into adhering to the proper etiquette. While we want the event to be enjoyable, your safety is also in our interest. If people get injured because of other people obstructing the path of other people's dances while goofing around, there is absolutely no excuse.

People who attended the lessons really worked hard on what they learned (and I mean that with utter sincerity. I greatly appreciated a lot of the enthusiasm and effort they put) and they deserve to be allowed to attend an event where they can be respected by their fellows instead of hindered by people that chose not to take time to learn things properly and diligently.

-Dan

P.S. Shoes were mentioned at the start of every single lesson. EVERY single lesson. I made sure of it. We even have video evidence. I don't know what was done outside of our lessons (which was all we were really responsible alongside being present at the ball), but you definitely should have heard it PLENTY of times in class.

Tony

I can answer a few things...
Quote from: fma4theworld on May 27, 2009, 09:26:08 PM
ohayo minnasan~ ^_^ i made an account just to post feedback!
I appreciate it, thanks!

Quotei thought that the all this year was great fun! it was a little bit crowded and i got hit a couple times and had my toes stepped on once. i agree that we should have a bigger room next year. but the room this year was still really pretty!
I think this is like the second largest room in downtown San Jose that's available for us. It's 8342 sq ft. The next one up is 13,464 sq ft, and is next door to that room. We're inquiring about it, but obviously it is subject to availability, and will cost an arm and a leg.

Quoteanyways, the ball was a blast this year, but did it really have to be so far away from the convention center? it's a long walk on tired feed espeecially if you've been walking around all day already.
As I said, the Fairmont is the only place available to us that can hold an event that size. (Well, there's like the dealer's room, but that's just not right.)

Quoteoh yeah, we should also have more chairs. people kept sittin gin the chairs we claimed alreadu. it was really annoying so we should have more chairs.
It may be possible!

Quick, related question...

What kind of... extra stuff would everyone be interested in? I noticed that the snacks and drinks were popular AFTER they lowered the price (the hotel realized this and really understands this now) but are there other things you would be interested in? Coat check? Photo booth?
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Wabbit98

I think dancing on cement like the dealers hall floor would be harder on my knees that a wooden floor like we had, even with some of the problems.

I am just going to point out here, my post was the things that I saw that could be looked at to work on, not always the parts that I enjoyed, which were many.
2010 - 2013 :Black and White Ball Staff

2014-2015 : Black and White Ball Department Second

2015 : Extravaganzas Division Second

unluckycharm13

Quote from: fma4theworld on May 27, 2009, 09:26:08 PM
anyways, i really don't see whats wrong with not everyone knowing how to ballroom dance. you can't expect everyone to know to to dance formally there. i had a lot of fun with my friends dancing normally. if people what to do ballroom dancing maybe they should just have some sort of ball room dancing event just for them instead of trying to make everyone else dance like them. the conga line was fun and people have only themselves to blame if they don't know how to get out of the way.

I can see the point that is being made. However, I believe the topic is being misunderstood.  First of all,we do not expect everyone to know how to dance; that is what the lessons are for. The lessons are there to help people learn various types of ballroom dance. We want to share our knowledge and get people to appreciate ballroom dance. Second,we also DO NOT expect or force ANYONE to dance like us. The playlist on the projector was given so that guests could practice the moves learned in class if they wanted to. Guests had the option of following the playlist or dancing on their own, which was perfectly fine and added some variety and entertainment to the event.
The reason we mentioned the conga lines is because at the ball, while conga lines did look cool and seem fun to participate in, they got too big at times(one line took up the entire floor space) and were blocking the way of experienced AND non-experienced dancers alike. Thus, along with the dysfunctional floor(was sticky and fell apart during the ball, which can be a hazard to a lady wearing high heels because twisted ankles can occur), the take home message was to consider others at the ball and definitely put safety first! Not to mention, even for the most experienced dancer(even a professional), dancing through a conga line and/or a crowd of standing guests is very difficult and the dancer should not be solely blamed just because he/she couldn't get out of the way when there was little or no way out(Big group of standing people+big conga line+other dancers in place+other traveling dancers=A very difficult floor to navigate). Usually, multiple parties(this can include an experienced dancer, it happens all the time at competitions) are at fault for a bump or crash.
As for seperating experienced and non-experienced dancers, this would have been counter-productive and would reduce the number of potential dance partners by a huge number. Non-experienced dancers gain a lot of skill from dancing with an experienced dancer and vice versa. Believe it or not, teaching is a great way to improve dancing skills and helps one understand how the movements are done. Heck, we even got some people who didn't come to the lessons who wanted to learn a dance or two at the ball! We then gave them a one-on-one lesson in the dance that they wanted to learn. Now, if we had seperated those who had experience and those who had little experience, the instructors/assistants would have not have had the pleasure of dancing with new people and learning more each other and themselves and vice versa. Not to mention, there would have been no resources for guests to go to if they had any questions about patterns learned in classes.

Thank you,
Elizabeth


Liquid

Quote from: Tony on May 27, 2009, 09:54:14 PM
Photo booth?

Well I already added in my 2 cents, but this would be a great addition as well!
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uhohsammijo

Quotedid it really have to be so far away from the convention center? it's a long walk on tired feed espeecially if you've been walking around all day already.

Honestly, the Fairmount is two blocks away. It takes no longer than five minutes to walk there, and you wouldn't be dancing if your feet were so tired. The extra room (and extra swankiness) is worth those two blocks.



I agree with Elizabeth as far as the safety goes. I understand that some people just want to get all dolled up and dance however they want, but there are a lot of people attending and not hitting them should be a concern. I'm not saying "If you don't do the dance we want you to then get out of the ball!" That's just rude.

My earlier point about etiquette only applied to the safety concerns. Idling is hazardous not only to the dancers but to the idlers. Not to mention that, because of the crowds, idlers make it difficult for people who want to dance (in whatever formal/not-so-formal style they want) to fit on the floor. It's dangerous and pretty rude.


As for conga lines... while spontaneous ones have their appeal, an organized GINORMOUS conga line including all the attendees on the floor would be not only safer but more epic. Epic conga line... imagine it... you know you want one.  :)



Sammi-Jo

xichisex

I had super-duper fun at the classes. My friend and I don't have much rhythm, but we did our best! I was the girl in the black and white dress during the ChaCha on Saturday and the Waltz on Saturday as well. Also I did the Swing class on Sunday, but my friend wasn't there with me. We are in the videos if you haven't seen them on YouTube yet! Maybe next year I will apply to be an instructor, or at least one of the helpful teacher-people-things! 8D

FanimeCon Cosplay 2013

saebel

Micellaneous thoughts:

QuotePersonally, I'd like to throw out Nightclub Two-Step in favor of Disco Hustle.

This would be sad, because NC2S is such a great dance to teach people -- they can use it in lieu of the clutch-and-shuffle.  And, while hustle is a great dance and fun, NC2S (of the two dances) is a bit easier on girls who are wearing full ballgowns.

(Been there, tried that...)


QuoteThis year is the first time we've had to go with an outside vendor for the flooring.

Since there's talks for the venue to increase in size, this might be too expensive an option, but I've danced on these floors before and they are awesome: http://www.americanportabledancefloors.com/

(They are sooo smooth... and they have some nice flex to them, too.)

Another thought is that if the Fairmont would allow it, maybe a second (smaller) floor could be set up outside the Regency Ballroom?  There was that little area between the bathrooms and the elevators that could have held a small practice floor.  That'd be a great place for people to get impromptu lessons/hang out/etc.  It's less noisy, easier to see, etc.



Someone else mentioned maybe having a small ballroom dance party each night, like the way there's a Dance each night.  Maybe, the night before the B&W Ball, Meeting Room J could be opened in the late evening for an informal ballroom dance practice/party?  People who've been taking lessons can practice; people who are more experienced can stretch their legs; and the two groups can mingle without the danger or threat of a conga line.

(And it might satisfy the urge to dance enough so that if the B&W Ball is very crowded/crazy, it's not as big of a deal.)

Not sure how much that would cost, though.

-Sab
2010-2016 B&W Ball Staff/Helper
2001, 2007-2009 Attendee

boots01

The coat check is something we tried at the first ball back in 2007 but removed due to liability concerns in 2008 and 2009.  With the demand being there, and I feel it is, I think we can revisit the idea and look into the feasibility.

Saebel, thanks for the link.  We'll look into it for next year.  We had another company that had something similar this year but they were unfortunately more than our budget allowed.  Something to remember is that Fanime doesn't have the big corporate sponsorship that other conventions have.  This means that for everything we do, from guests to events at the con, the money comes directly from you, the attendees.  So while we might want to spend more money on events or guests, we have to balance that against what is a reasonable amount to ask you to pay to attend the con.
-Eugene
2001 Video Programming Staffer
2002 Acting Video Programming Head
2003-5 Masquerade 2nd.
2006 Special Projects
2007-9 BW Ball Head
2010 Yamaga Party Coordinator
2011 HR Staffer

sigh,

so much anime to watch, so little time