Post Fanime 2010 Weapons? Props? Peacebonding? Policy? Ask those ? here...

[slvbros]

A friend of mine is confused by a minor contradiction in the .pdf of your weapons policy, between the Prohibited Weapons & Props section and the Fanime Weapons Policy FAQ section.

Live Steel is not permitted. Swords, knives, or other metal objects which have, or could take an edge are defined as live steel, whether sharp or not. Unsharpened steel may be bound into a scabbard and attached to the costume.

This was OK last year, what about now? We change rules yearly. This means that what was ok last year may not be allowed this year. Most especially, we're going to be changing rules on Guns and Gun‐like weapons. We require holsters, and they must be peace‐tied into the Holster. They should have the bright orange tip, or something similar which makes them look unrealistic. No metal swords are allowed. No metal blades. No plastic or metal Kunai (without being attached).

Also, as a US Marshall not in costume would I be allowed to carry my weapon? Irrelevant for this year but I will officially be one Wednesday.

[loner]

squirt guns are ok right? and we are able to pose with them as long as they dont have a trigger and are empty?
i took the trigger out and plastidipped the entire front part red so it looks absolutely fake, i.e the front part of the gun is now just a big blob of red rubber.

[Aelia]

I have a wooden flail/nunchuku that I made of dowels and chains.  I know they aren't allowed, but what if I zip-tied the chains and dowels together so they won't be able to move around.  Will that be permitted?

The trouble is that nunchucks aren't really legal in California. In the past we've compromised with people to allow them to carry by doing exactly that. I need to talk to my superiors about it, unfortunately, and see how they feel about continuing that policy. Please, come by the rovers peace bonding station as soon as you're on-site, and I'll hopefully have an answer for you.

Oh, well the "prop" in question was the spurs. They were in the grey matter between prop and costume- or at least that was what I was under the impression of. I won't be carrying anything in the name of props with the costume-she isn't a super trained fighter person. xD I'll leave the art up just in case, just to be safe. :D Thanks!

In that case, I'll tell you what I told someone else; spurs are OK as long as they are not shaprened spurs, and they will not damage the floor when you walk in them.

A friend of mine is confused by a minor contradiction in the .pdf of your weapons policy, between the Prohibited Weapons & Props section and the Fanime Weapons Policy FAQ section.

Live Steel is not permitted. Swords, knives, or other metal objects which have, or could take an edge are defined as live steel, whether sharp or not. Unsharpened steel may be bound into a scabbard and attached to the costume.

This was OK last year, what about now? We change rules yearly. This means that what was ok last year may not be allowed this year. Most especially, we're going to be changing rules on Guns and Gun‐like weapons. We require holsters, and they must be peace‐tied into the Holster. They should have the bright orange tip, or something similar which makes them look unrealistic. No metal swords are allowed. No metal blades. No plastic or metal Kunai (without being attached).

Also, as a US Marshall not in costume would I be allowed to carry my weapon? Irrelevant for this year but I will officially be one Wednesday.

That wasn't supposed to say unsharpened steel. :( It was supposed to say "metal which cannot take an edge", but MS Word decided it hated me toward the end of that policy and kept crashing, so I misplaced a few changes. So... uhh... unfortunately the second one is the accurate statement. I'll have to fix that on as many copies as I can.

As a US Marshall you would fall into the category of "off duty law enforcement" which means that (I believe) you are authorized to carry concealed just about anywhere. What this means to Fanime is that if you have the proper paperwork; that is, you have proof of your status as a US Marshall, we would ask you to have a quick chat with the on-site SJPD and to behave as would be expected of law enforcement. It is not our intent, nor our job, to deprive actual law enforcement of their weapons.

squirt guns are ok right? and we are able to pose with them as long as they dont have a trigger and are empty?
i took the trigger out and plastidipped the entire front part red so it looks absolutely fake, i.e the front part of the gun is now just a big blob of red rubber.

That would be OK.

[slvbros]

Thank you for the response

[T-1000]

Aelia I was wondering if you received my message with the best possible angle of my cosplay weapon for I need an official verdict before I present this to fanime on Saturday because I have already created and painted it. I just need your final say on whether I can present it, thanks.

[ptrick]

I am so somewhat disappointed on the outcome on the rules and regulation.

I was at the peacebonding desk, trying to check in a toy "clear" gun with orange tip, no trigger, no spring and does not shoot BB's. This guy told me that my gun was an airsoft. I tried to explain to him that my gun was on my holster and he pointed the rules and regulation and underlined it right infront of my face that I must abide on the rules. Then he stated this stupidest thing that if I have a "real" firearm that I should have my "real" gun kept inside my holster, WTH so we can get a real hand gun and it should be in the holster most of the time??. Will someone please clarify this??? I think this is stupid and I've seen alot of cosplayers with Assault Riffles with them. What is up with all that?

[Dany]

I just wanted to provide my feedback for this year, based on my experience.

The only time we had props over the course of the day was Sunday afternoon/evening, when we were out as Captain Harlock and Emeraldas. The rover photographed us and was apparent fan of the costumes, but was goodly enough to do his job and request that we be peace-bonded, which I was quite happy to do. We even went to the table as while our cosmo dragoons were easily bound, our sabers were not so much, and I don't think he didn't want to stop up traffic in the area we were in (by Stage Zero) to do that.

The only feedback I could give him was that he made the tension a little tight on my gravity saber, as when I brought it back to our hotel room I found the cup of the saber bent in a fair bit. While this was not a huge problem as the cup bent back out overnight (and with a tiny bit of handworking), it was a little startling when we returned to our hotel room that evening. I think the goal he had was that the saber would not move in the holster, but I don't know if that's the default rule or if they are allowed to leave about an inch of give so that the weapon is locked in, but not taking force.

But that's pretty much all the feedback I could give. He was a very nice guy who apparently had a regard for what we were doing AND was doing his job as he was supposed to. So give him a cookie :)

Now. To get to the thing that is troubling me. We saw a LOT of people inside the convention center possessing weapons that could/should have been bound to their persons, yet were instead only looped with a single tie and otherwise unconnected to them. These were not necessarily big or ungainly props either..as those are things I could completely understand not being hooked to you.  I guess I am a bit frustrated that I went through a fair amount of effort to be sure that our props could be peacebound when we were more permanently inside (we were in and out of the center for most of the day), yet others were able to get by with a "peacebinding" of a single ziptie around their weapon. and nothing more.  It gives the impression that some Rovers are just saying "OK, just don't flail it about and you're fine" to some, but others are doing full lock-down of the weapon to the owner.

[Somebody]

Thanks a bunch Aelia, and to all of you hardworking staff out there!
I had no problems with props being of harm thankfully and no complaints on my spurs, which thankfully are unsharpened and did not damage any flooring since I didn't get that last update.

The only disappointing thing I saw were a few Hetalia cosplayers running around at night whipping their flags all over the place and nearly hitting some poor folks. Not the most respectable thing for a flag either, but the danger is what's more important in this case.  :-\

Thanks again ya'll and hope to see you all next year!

[Charis]

This year's experience: I only stopped by once (the other relevant props/weapons I took out only for the Bleach photoshoot and the run back to our room afterwards), earlier today with a wooden jian with a leather-and-wonderflex scabbard.  I can't remember the name of the gal who peacebound it for me at Marriott Rovers, but appreciated her care with the blade and her explanation when I was puzzled over her tying it into the scabbard despite what had been said previously here -- and I very much appreciated that the Rovers downstairs at the Gatherings table were not only willing to cut the ties off when I took it outside for my gathering/shoot, but had the equipment to do so.  So all in all, for me, it was a good (if limited) experience with peacebonding this year.

Completely seconding what Dany said about the variance in terms of peacebonding, though.  I understand that policy does sometimes have to change based on incidents (though I'm still curious as to what specifically caused that), but even taking that into account, it was a little odd to see those inconsistencies.

(I do wish I'd had the chance to bring my giant manta by so he could have collected a Fanime 2010 tie for his tail, to go alongside the 2009 one. Alas, too much rush meant I forgot. :\ )

[loner]

@aelia
thank you so much for being there for all of us who just wants to follow rules and have fun! your hard work was much appreciated!
im so glad you saw 1st hand what i had to deal with, and im glad you really stuck by your rules you enforced. I hope you are in charge next year!
id like to throw in my 2 cents
when one of my swords attached to a holster on my back wasnt meant to move i.e stitched and hot glued to the actual holster itself was being peacebonded, the peacebonder that was checking the sword pulled it so hard that the sword became UNGLUED just to make sure it didnt  "move"....kinda rough with the props...

"wooden swords that did less damage than a boken sword are not to be peacebonded to the sheath" didnt happen....this is where that print out helped me...
and a rover that didnt have a visible badge "handled" my friends toy knife on our way to look for the peacebonding station since it moved from the room i would see you in to the table around the corner....and i do have a picture of the rover who took the knife, he gave it back but he "examined" it before even explaining who he was or what he was doing....he also said whoever peacebonded the squirt gun you personally peacebonded "did it wrong".

other than that im just dealing with the post con blues and i had lots of fun with the exception of having to deal with overzealous rovers that i usually get used to having to deal with.
and was i right? 10 costumes this year 3 costume changes a day! good times!

[loner]

@somebody
i saw the same ones running around outside hitting people in the head as they chased each other around messing up people's photoshoots.
hug alley never went anywhere, they were there in full force and hugging people with or without consent....i told a 2 rovers and they just let them carry on....oh and the signs being banned? i thought they were....the whole hug thing is getting super old....

[Somebody]

@somebody
i saw the same ones running around outside hitting people in the head as they chased each other around messing up people's photoshoots.
hug alley never went anywhere, they were there in full force and hugging people with or without consent....i told a 2 rovers and they just let them carry on....oh and the signs being banned? i thought they were....the whole hug thing is getting super old....

Oh my that is awful! I'd really hate to see us be unable to bring flags in the future because of things like this.
And that second point was something I was sad about as well. I understand it is hard to get them all but I am a very uneasy person and having people run up to me and ask me to hug them with signs, shirts, and spoken words is very unnerving-hopefully things will work out better about that next year!

[loner]

in my opinion it shouldnt be the flags that get banned but the people breaking the rules....ANYTHING can be misused....

[Aelia]

Alright, so... here's the deal with feedback from Fanime 2010.
Feedback will be considered for use in the 2011 policy if:

• It is intelligent, and offers a suggestion which makes sense.
• It addresses a genuine issue, and is not just an overall complaint.
• It is not just whining; it needs to have a suggestion in it to be considered.

There are no guarantees that feedback can or will be utilized, but we will be doing our best to consider anything which meets the above requirements.

Things which we already plan on addressing:

• Rules for swords and guns.
• Sign rules, "Hug Me" Shirts
• Guidelines for costuming; I can guarantee that we will be requiring handlers if you have a costume with limited visibility. We had one-too-many incidents involving people with limited vision running into (and in one case hurting) someone else. What this means is that you will be expected to have someone with you at all times if you have a very large, or a very sight-limiting cosplay.

The timeline: I plan on having the 2011 guide ready to go by the end of July. (It has to be contemplated, re-written, approved by many people, and OK'd by the legal department.)

So please, if you have some feedback, or things which we could possibly consider for 2011, consider the above before posting.

Now, to respond to a few comments from the last few days:
Flags were not really an issue; we did have a lot more than we've ever had in the past because of the popularity of Hetalia. They're not going to be banned, nor really limited except by the 8' rule. However, signs were an issue (as they always are). An awful lot of people wrote up signs which solicited something or another. We tried to be polite-but-firm on those. They will continue to be banned (except in the case that a character actually carries a sign) in 2011. "Hug Me" Shirts may go the same way as signs, since those ended up being a bit of an issue as well. Every time my shift got notified of a Hug Line they were told to break it up. Unfortunately, they re-gather just as quick as we can disperse them sometimes. If you find yourself being solicited (or hugged/glomped without permission) and are uncomfortable with it in 2011, please notify a Rover, we will try to deal with it as fast as possible. If you can describe the person who made you uncomfortable, it will make everything much easier. (And if you can get a picture with a camera, it'll be downright simple to take care of it).

Bows were actually an issue, as we had several people come with real compound- and long-bows and actually draw them a few times. One person had both a real bow and a real arrow. Since our policy stated that only bows which had no tension (while strung or unstrung) could be carried, we had to ask people to put those away.

Lightsabers were a bit of an issue; there are some really lovely ones which are made of glass/plastic with heavy metal handles. Because of the nature of those, we had to ask them to not carry their lightsabers inside.

The biggest issue by far was stuff people bought in the Dealer's Hall, and they wanted to carry around the convention. Most people did not have costumes, but still wanted to strap their brand-new katana/shinai/boken to their waist and wander around. I may go so far as to get some stupid boxes from work and butcher them for next year, so we have something to stuff their swords into.

Did you guys know that Balloons are not allowed in the San Jose Convention Center? We just found this one out this year, because our infamous Russell cosplayer was asked by SJCC staff to keep them outside.

I hope we managed to avoid damaging anybody's props, I explained to our rovers that prop-damage would not be tolerated.

Now. To get to the thing that is troubling me. We saw a LOT of people inside the convention center possessing weapons that could/should have been bound to their persons, yet were instead only looped with a single tie and otherwise unconnected to them. These were not necessarily big or ungainly props either..as those are things I could completely understand not being hooked to you.  I guess I am a bit frustrated that I went through a fair amount of effort to be sure that our props could be peacebound when we were more permanently inside (we were in and out of the center for most of the day), yet others were able to get by with a "peacebinding" of a single ziptie around their weapon. and nothing more.  It gives the impression that some Rovers are just saying "OK, just don't flail it about and you're fine" to some, but others are doing full lock-down of the weapon to the owner.

I really do apologize for this. Unfortunately, while some of our peace-bonders knew what they were doing, and had a care for props/policy, a few of them were just trying to tag-and-go. What this means is that I spent a lot of time trying to figure out who was messing up, and to un-do peace bonds which never should have happened. I've got a plan for 2011 to keep this from happening again.

(I do wish I'd had the chance to bring my giant manta by so he could have collected a Fanime 2010 tie for his tail, to go alongside the 2009 one. Alas, too much rush meant I forgot. :\ )

Come by with your manta in 2011, I may have one or two 2k10 bonds, so I can give you one retroactively. ;)

But that's pretty much all the feedback I could give. He was a very nice guy who apparently had a regard for what we were doing AND was doing his job as he was supposed to. So give him a cookie :)

Rest assured, he got one. :D

[Dany]

Did you guys know that Balloons are not allowed in the San Jose Convention Center? We just found this one out this year, because our infamous Russell cosplayer was asked by SJCC staff to keep them outside.

Wow, that's a new piece of trivia. Silly question, did they say why they were prohibited? Perhaps the trouble it would take to fish them out of the ceiling if they got loose? :)  Definitely intriguing, is all.

I hope we managed to avoid damaging anybody's props, I explained to our rovers that prop-damage would not be tolerated.

I really do apologize for this. Unfortunately, while some of our peace-bonders knew what they were doing, and had a care for props/policy, a few of them were just trying to tag-and-go. What this means is that I spent a lot of time trying to figure out who was messing up, and to un-do peace bonds which never should have happened. I've got a plan for 2011 to keep this from happening again.

Like I said, my saber kicked back into place by the next day. Hubby made it fairly resilient XD But if the "wiggle room" can be accomodated for next year, that would kick all sorts of butt.

But that's pretty much all the feedback I could give. He was a very nice guy who apparently had a regard for what we were doing AND was doing his job as he was supposed to. So give him a cookie :)

Rest assured, he got one. :D

Wewt!

[Somebody]

Thanks again Aelia! I'll be out of everyone's hair now. :P

[Vasyenka]

Now, this is odd.

Friday, I let my friend borrow my prop riding crop. No where does it say in the policy that riding crops are allowed, seeing as how it's not a flailing weapon. Not to mention, the tip had been replaced with craft foam and black electrical tape that would probably come apart if swung in the air.

The rover we encountered told my friend that the prop absolutely had to be off the convention grounds, or we would have to leave ourselves. Said rover didn't inspect it either, so we thought that was a little harsh with this whole "Put that foam prop away or LEAVE!" attitude. We had just walked onto the convention grounds moments before, so it wasn't like we were wondering around aimlessly for hours with this prop exposed. We weren't even able to make it to the peace bonding table.

Needless to say, we were put off not only by this attitude, but also with the fact that no where in the policy did it say that foam tipped/electrical taped riding crops were allowed.

[Aelia]

Now, this is odd.

Friday, I let my friend borrow my prop riding crop. No where does it say in the policy that riding crops are allowed, seeing as how it's not a flailing weapon. Not to mention, the tip had been replaced with craft foam and black electrical tape that would probably come apart if swung in the air.

The rover we encountered told my friend that the prop absolutely had to be off the convention grounds, or we would have to leave ourselves. Said rover didn't inspect it either, so we thought that was a little harsh with this whole "Put that foam prop away or LEAVE!" attitude. We had just walked onto the convention grounds moments before, so it wasn't like we were wondering around aimlessly for hours with this prop exposed. We weren't even able to make it to the peace bonding table.

Needless to say, we were put off not only by this attitude, but also with the fact that no where in the policy did it say that foam tipped/electrical taped riding crops were allowed.

I'm guessing that where you said "were allowed" you meant "were not allowed"? Unfortunately, while it is not explicitly listed under "flail weapons", riding crops have been an issue in the past, and are banned because we got one-too-many displays of spanking and/or smacking with and without permission in the past. Another clause in the weapons policy is that the functionality of the prop is irrelevant. A modified riding crop is still a riding crop, and a nunchuku made of toilet paper tubes and yarn is still nunchuku.

I do apologize for the attitude our rover displayed. Because I was not there, I'm not even going to attempt to justify it except that a lot of us got a lot of attitude and flak from congoers, so he might have just been having a bad moment. One of the things which I really emphasized when training was that politeness was important above all else.

[Vasyenka]

Whoops, not allowed, ha ha sorry.

I think it would be a good idea to include that in next year's policy in that case, because if it's supposedly not in the gray area (which my friends and I assumed since we didn't see it mentioned anywhere in the policy), then it should be outlined so future con goers wouldn't face the same confusion as we did; especially if this has been in issue in the past.

I understand that said rover might've been having a bad moment, and as I stated, we had barely walked onto the convention grounds. Y'know, happy and excited that we just stepped foot onto Fanime, and abruptly we were faced with an attitude regarding an issue that wasn't even outlined in the policy. None the less, what's happened happened~

[Dagger-6]

I believe we should focus on banning certain behavior with props instead of actual props themselves.  While for legal reasons you may want to list everything as not allowed, but when it comes to enforcement Rover staff should be a lot more lenient and give discretion to the cosplayer except where inappropriate behavior becomes an issue (play fighting, swinging props, pointing prop firearms towards people, etc.).

Just a quick glance at the Fanime weapons policy attempt to be detailed highlights some flaws:

Guns and Projectile Weapons are not permitted. Examples include, but are not limited to: live guns, live gun replicas, pellet guns, BB guns, Airsoft guns, paintball guns, dart guns, filled water guns, blow guns, or crossbows. The functionality of the prop is irrelevant.

It says the functionality of the prop is irrelevant, but at the same time it differentiates between filled and empty water guns as well as live guns.  The functionality of a bow is taken into consideration, but not that of a crossbow.  As I mentioned before, try and explain to me the difference between a modified body kit intended for an airsoft gun and a gutted and deactivated airsoft gun.

If we focused on unsafe behavior instead of specific props, we could enforce rules a lot more evenly.  Instead of trying to decide which guns look "too realistic" (a flawed concept anyways in a world where you're as likely to get shot over a wallet or a cell phone), we should simply emplace a rule that states any poses involving firearm props must be pointed to the ground or to the sky, never at people (e.g. never break a 45 degree plane).

Anyways, Rover staff can look for my full write up before the week is out, but I wanted to toss this out here to see what the general populace thinks.