Ethical, or Not?

[SukebeStudios]

I know there's a..."small" chance...that buying bootleg movies is illegal...(lol) but...is there a time when it is...ethical?
Buying bootlegs or downloading them by themselves is wrong, legally, and ethicly in my opinion. But...is it ok, when you have every intention of buying the DVD whenever it comes out? Or when they say "only in theaters?" Personally me, I only download movies when I know that I'm already going to buy the DVD, or am going to see it again in theaters.

For instance, I had seen James Cameron's Avatar twice in theaters, before downloading a bootleg copy onto my computer. Of course, about a week later, I went to see it again in IMAX. And I'll probably see it again in theaters, and will DEFINATELY buy it on DVD/Blu Ray.

I think in that case...it's OK to download a FREE bootleg of the DVD. But not quite right to BUY a bootleg of it, because I'm still seeing it in theaters, and going to buy it. What's your opinion?

[BrightHeart76]

All I can think when I read this post is Wimpy saying "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."  And we all know how well THAT works out.

Wheter or not you plan to pay for the DVD or not really doesn't matter.  The download is illegal and shouldn't be available.  What about the other people who download it?  Let's say 75% of those people buy the DVD when it comes out.  Let's say an additional 10% of those people wouldn't have bought it in the first place.  They just downloaded it to stick it to James Cameron or out of curiosity.  That still leaves 15% of the people downloading it stealing the movie.  That number doesn't seem so big...but how many people have downloaded this movie illegally?  For argument's sake let's say 10,000 (though I suspect the number is MUCH larger).  If 15% of 10,000 people (1,500 people) don't buy the DVD at $20, that's $30,000 dollars stolen from the production company.  That's money that doesn't go to the people who worked hard to create the movie.  Honestly, I suspect the numbers are much worse.

It is not ethical to download the movie.  Even if you do "the right thing" and buy the DVD, you're still perpetuating the systems that allow people to steal the movie. 

[Dragon Ninja]

I don't like it, either. It's wrong. I'm also having a problem like this too. Sometimes, this guy comes into where I work selling bootleg DVDs, and some of my co-workers purchase from him. Now, I voiced on how wrong it is, but they don't see it that way, they see it as a way for a person struggling because of the economy, but that's still not right. I want to report this but I'm scared because it might do more harm than good. It could even cost me my job. I don't know what to do.

[Jerry]

I think this topic should be moved to " Serious Business" not only because of the subject matter, but I can easily see this turning into a debate fest.

Here's my short 2 cents version at the moment.

* rant mode on *

there's a reason why theres a copy right law disclaimer before EVERY movie, dvd and etc. when you buy a "retail" version of said movie/show item. downloading them off the internet is no excuse.

There is a capitalistic process in place [though i understand why not everyone agrees with it] but your essentially "stealing it" regardless. and that IMO is wrong.

There's a difference between backing up a copy of an item you've already bought for personal use. But downloading an item not officially released to the public for "sale" is fair.

It's as simple as the " Haves and Have nots "
if you werent meant to have it from the get go and are using techniques to get said items by a "unfair" fashion [again i know its relative] and going around the system in place then you sir are a Pirate and a thief.

I know everyone "does it" excuse, but just blabing about openly on a forum and almost showing off about it even seems even more so stupid.

So thats why I just dont do it.

I was raised to have better morales than that.


I buy all my own video games.
I buy all my own movies or rent/watch via Net flix.
I watch everything else [totally edited] on TV/cable interent - which I also PAY for.

Sure I find all sorts of pre-release stuff on the internets all the time. but that doesnt mean I'll use it for personal gain and "steal it" cuz its there. I try to contribute to the economy despite the fact we're trying to bounce back from already seems like a pretty overall corrupt society.

Humanity is already filled with enough flaws as is. Internet breeds more ignorance everyday... despite the fact it was meant to improve and enrich our lives. * sigh *

Now I'm all grumpy. Thanks alot.  :-\ 

* rant mode off

[Mizuki]

You know, when you post in SB, it doesn't belong there, and when you don't post in SB, it should/can belong there...

[SukebeStudios]

Now I'm all grumpy. Thanks alot.  :-\  

Don't blame me for your grumpiness. I just asked for opinions.

You know, when you post in SB, it doesn't belong there, and when you don't post in SB, it should/can belong there...

That's EXACTLY why I posted in this category. It's not a news story, and I'm not able to support it with a news article. I'm not using the "everyone's doing it excuse. I just said why I do it. And I never said it was legal either. I guess it just makes me feel better when I buy the actual product later. Plus...::Shrug:: I just wanted opinions, not approval.

BTW...blaming others for reading something and pissing yourself off..."raised to have better morales than that?"

[Tony]

I'd still say it's unethical, even if you do buy it later. Regardless of if you make up for it, it was still against someone's wishes. It's like telling a secret that no one cares about: you've still broken someone's trust.

[PyronIkari]

There is no point in even talking about this, because I'm fairly certain that most people on this forum don't even understand the real basis of ethics. Ethics is more than just "Right vs. Wrong" and "Justified vs Unjustified".

So speaking of whether something is ethical or not in this case.

You can speak whether it is moral or unmoral, but that is personal opinion.

The only thing you can base this on is actual law, in which case, you're still breaking it.

And Suskebestudios...

Really? You really believe that you have to accompany a post with a new article to post on serious business? Really? Seriously? Are you really having that hard of a time understanding what that forum is about?

[xxxplizit (pogi1kenobi)]

How is bootlegging = ethical, let alone legal?  Do you honestly know how much this impacts the film business negatively?

There is no straight guarantee nor proven fact that you will buy the DVD/BR of a movie only released in theaters, regardless of whether or not they loved it so much; the future is unpredictable.  What if you are unable to purchase the DVD/BR by the time of its release due to financial problems?  What if you lost interest in the movie due to other better movies or if it became a fad?  Would you live to your word?

Saying and admitting you illegally download copyrighted material on a public forum is TMI; some people get irritated by users discussing that they did illegal activities.

[Jerry]

_insert SukebeStudios quote_

First off, I didnt blame you for my grumpiness. That was blatant assumption. Dont even get started about that.  >:(

Try to think outside the box for a momment:

Example 1
and Say I hired a bunch of ninja monkeys to rob you, your family, and your friends of everything that you own and just simply left a note saying "I'll pay for it later. - signed ninja monkeys "
- Tell me how you think taking something now and paying for it later is fair again?

Example 2
I could find out where you live, your personal contact info, and just spam it all over the internets because that information was technically "Free" to the public. Now your privacy is open for the internet to play with.
- Tell me again how something you find on the internet is "free" and yet doesnt have the potential to do harm on to others?

Pirating has ALWAYS been in the news since VHS, Beta, and Compated Disc and probably WAY WAY earlier so regardless of the lack of any new articles its not the first time this topic has been the subject of the debate or discussion.

You're just trying to justify why you think its OK to download something NOW rather than just be PATIENT and buy it legit. Your not looking for an opinion when you cant even explain why its so important to have a non-retail/bootleg movie- when you cant wait the time to properly purchase it.

Tell me again when your a victim of Theft -- and your gonna try to tell me your not to be upset?  I wasnt even pointing any blame on you. I was referring to how ppl love to gloat about downloading stuff and essential breaking the law and not think nothing "bad" has happened.

You're only being defensive because despite your best logic trying to go after "opinions" is thinking that Downloading something "free" is OK when the free item was originally stolen to begin with.

Stealing is Stealing. I'll leave it at that.

and at the moment I'm not grumpy:
I'm eating chocolate I "stole" from the store. Except, I paid for it and I got the receipt during said "stealing".
So that makes it okay,.... but I still want your opinion on it.  ;D

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

As one lacking any real moral compass, I would say there is nothing wrong with such a action past it breaking the law. Though being me as long as I don't get caught I don't care about that either.

[Liquid]

Here is something that will get you thinking:

How many of those people who downloaded a movie or bought a bootleg, actually would have purchased the full price dvd or even cared to rent it? (Probably not that high of a percentage.)

Kinda like in the Matrix where the Oracle says something to Neo about a vase that causes him to knock over the vase. If she had not of mentioned it, he probably wouldn't have knocked it over.

A related thing happens for illegal movies. Here is where it can get confusing.

1.) You have people that go to the theatre and watched the movie.
2.) People who watched it and just downloaded the movie to see it again.
3.) Those that watched it, downloaded it, and bought the DVD.
4.) Renters.
5.) Downloaders.
6.) Piraters.
7.) Those who rented it, enjoyed it, and bought it.
8.) Those who downloaded it, enjoyed it, and bought it.
9.) Etc etc etc (different versions forever.)

Now.... how many of those people that saw it in theatres would ever care to pay to watch that movie again? Mostly fans with money who care to collect it legally.

How many people didn't get a chance to see it theatres, downloaded it, watched it, loved it, and bought the DVD? Bought a copy for their friend, their parents, etc?

What I'm getting at is that *most* of the people that partake in illegal movie activities would never have spent any money on that movie in the first place. Typically a person who downloads or buys a pirated copy was most likely never willing to buy a legal copy in the first place, regardless if an illegal copy was available or not. But, sometimes watching that illegal movie can induce a desire to legally purchase the movie out of a sort of fan obligation.

The same goes for anime. Why the hell would I ever pay to buy an expensive anime series or rent an anime series (not always an option) that I know nothing about or have never seen before? Why would I waste my money?

But, if I downloaded it, watched it, and loved it....then I will surely make an effort to purchase it when it is a reasonable price. (Anime is so over priced....)

Then again, I am a collector by nature. My DVD collection is vast and my anime collection not so vast. I do plan to someday purchase most of the good animes I've downloaded and watched completely. Maybe even their mangas. For now though, I have a huge collection of burned CDs and DVDs of anime series.

Immoral as it may be, I do not have the cash to buy that $100-200 box set of a series I haven't yet seen. So, if I watch it and I like it, then that want to purchase it festers in my mind. But, I would have never had the desire to buy the boxed set if I had not illegally downloaded the series to begin with.

So yeah, I guess I'm one of those immoral law breakers, but I always at least have a plan to buy the good stuff I watch. I almost never buy a movie that I haven't already seen...and if I didn't get a chance to see it in theatres, then most likely I downloaded it before I bought the DVD.

Regardless of the law, I personally only consider it immoral if you are a fan of a particular movie and you decide to keep an illegal copy and not plan to purchase the legal copy. I never keep illegal copies of movies, unless it was something given to me that I really did not like, but only kept because of the pack rat trait I inherited from my mother.

[caskaslyrk]

Honestly regarding this topic...EVERYONE watches a bootleg video or some download online.  Just by watching a show on Youtube you are watching a "bootleg".  I personally would not go out to the streets of LA and buy a copy of Avatar, BUT i would watch it online if someone had it posted.  I think they MAIN reason why bootleg and illegal downloads are frowned upon is because we are taking money from the actors and film crew who are probably getting paid solely on royalties.

[Glitch]

Paying any money for bootlegs is very wrong because that money goes to people who profit for doing nothing. And of course it supports organized crime too. It's not right, but at least with dowloading it simply comes from somebody uploading their DVD.