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DivineChaos

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Re: Peace bonding
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2010, 05:27:42 PM »

Here, this will be more organized:

1. Topic I'M debating:  Should the peace-badge placement be adjusted so that it does not hamper the activities of cosplayers? 

a) Main sides seem to be safety vs. freedom (Expression?).

2.  Question: Are you speaking as a staffer, con attendee, regular poster, or just devil's advocate?

3. Explanations on a couple things

A) Swords regardless of sheath or not, are props.  Discriminating between the two is pointless.  Why?  Because:

B) If this was a case of outside con grounds, and in normal day life, your logic would prevail.  The only reason there's an actual grey area here is because it's a convention, where such rules are a bit more lax, social or otherwise.

4. Drawing from point 3, subpoint A, I propose my solution:

"While all legal weapons, assuming they are eligible to be brought on the con, whether functional or not, are required to be peace-bonded, the peace-bond should be placed on the sword itself rather than the sword and sheath interlocked.  If, in any case, the sheath is freely wielded (Not bound to the person in question, but instead held by hand), both the sheath and sword are to be peace-bonded.  If a weapon is ineligible to be carried around unsheathed, then it should then and only then be bonded to the sheath, with the cosplayer's request being the only other exception to this rule."

5. Advantages

A) Allows for those in attendance to be able to express themselves freely for the entertainment of those that wish to take pictures, view, watch or otherwise observe the cosplayers in question.

B) While it does detract the power of moderation ever so slightly, it increases the experience for attendees WITHOUT sacrificing safety.

6. Counter-points

A) Live Steel is not allowed at the con.

aa) This plan doesn't edit the ban on live steel at all, but instead applies to only the already allowed weapons on-site.

B) Safety is reduced, as it can be seen as aggressive if they draw their sword in front of a cop

aa) As stated in point 5, subpoint B, it does not detract from safety?  Why?  Because the weapon is tagged all the same as any other weapon, indicating that it is not a real threat, much akin to the orange markings on fake guns or swords without sheaths.

bb) The simple act of drawing your sword in every day life would NOT spark some sort of wide panic in a con.  Why?  Because it's a con.  Again, if it were everyday life, there would be no argument, but as we all know, an anime convention is a black hole removed from time-space.

cc)
=/= Threatening.

dd) Continuing on bb, police, regardless of jokes, are not dumb people and can figure out that it's a convention.  Especially when it happens every year at the same time. 

C) Few people complain about this, therefore the convention staff requires more persuasive force in order to implement such a rule

aa) It's too difficult to gather said names.  Half don't check the forums, a good quarter that do don't check the forums, and the rest may not even be cosplayers.  Want evidence?  Ask those who bring in applicable weapons if they rather have one peace-bond interlocking the sword and sheath or two allowing the weapon to be opened and closed.  It's currently not my responsibility maintaining the experience for the attendees, therefore not mine to do all the work.

7) Conclusion

A) I drew from this that my plan is the best one suggested, merely because it offers a maintaining of security, while allowing for a more interesting experience at the growing convention.  In fact, the only extra work you have to do is c/p the rule into the booklet and let your rovers read it.
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PyronIkari

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Re: Peace bonding
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2010, 06:11:15 PM »

Words

GOD... YOU JUST DON'T GET IT...

You're wrong, and the SJSU would agree with me.

It's not okay, "just because it's a con" and this mentality is SO INCREDIBLY STUPID that it really really really irritates me and a lot of other people.

The convention is still on public grounds. The convention still exists in this reality. Laws simply do not disappear because it's a convention, and such basic laws should be abided by. This goes for all things really though. People shouldn't act like they can do things just because it's a convention.

And you're still just whining because you want to be allowed to do something because you think it's okay to do at a convention... when it's not.

OKAY, let's follow your little rule change. Now who is to say, that someone doesn't unsheathe their sword, and a cop sees it, drawing his gun? OH IT'S A CONVENTION RIGHT?!??!?! PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW THINGS LIKE THIS HAPPEN!

Okay, now, what if someone does that with a real sword... And starts killing people. Something that could have been prevented has the officer ASSESSED THE SITUATION AND HANDLED IT LIKE HE IS SUPPOSED TO DO. Your stupid rule change just caused 20 people to die. Good job.

These rules aren't meant to piss people off. They're meant to protect people. They're put in place so that the above event CANNOT take place. Sure, if everyone in the world could be trusted, and no one did bad things, it would make perfect sense if people didn't have to get stuff checked, but we don't live in fairy world(though a lot of people assume conventions are fairy world).

A lot of bad crap happens at conventions. People destroy property, people get into fights, people get hurt. Rules are in place to prevent these, and if you don't like safety rules that make complete legitimate sense(as you have already admitted with stating how it's viable outside of a convention), then don't come to a con... or carry around a bokuto that doesn't have a sheath. Because who care about your pose, because it's clearly inaccurate witha bokuto already, anyways.
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ewu

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Re: Peace bonding
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2010, 06:24:02 PM »

In the end, the con has heard and will evaluate. However much bickering that happens here will not change the facts and the outcome. The law may set a minimum baseline, but the con will decide as appropriate, balancing far more factors than you may be aware of.
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DivineChaos

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Re: Peace bonding
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2010, 09:07:07 PM »

1. Counterpoints

A) And you're still just whining because you want to be allowed to do something because you think it's okay to do at a convention... when it's not.

aa) In fact, the ruling on this issue at hand won't affect me in the least.  Of the three planned cosplays, only one has a sword and that will just be a prop on my back (Ironically my least likely to do, because the other two are more important to me).  So cut the presumptuous talk.  True, it has affected me in the past, but I bought a new one (Wooden since mine was live steel so I had to buy a new one anyway) and just had the tie around the hilt.  

B) In regards to my question posed (Not answered since you don't like reading your opponents arguments, just rant on what you feel), the third party that posted answered my question.  I was asking since if you were staff and were as nearly immovable as you seem to be, then the whole argument would be pointless.

C) Fallacy - Because it's a con does not mean laws are not enforced

aa) The black hole was an analogy (English 101 pls).  Rules ARE more lax there.

bb) Backing up point aa, if all laws apply as normal, how did the drunk and disorderly conduct citation go along?  Didn't get one?  Yeah, didn't think so.  That's because things not normally acceptable are given leeway.  Don't know what I'm talking about?  Stage Zero, about 9-10p last Fanime.  California Penal Code 647; since when have you been so into what's lawful?

D) Public Safety

aa) Your idiocy shines through.  Besides "Now who is to say, that someone doesn't unsheathe their sword, and a cop sees it, drawing his gun? OH IT'S A CONVENTION RIGHT?!??!?! PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW THINGS LIKE THIS HAPPEN!" not making a lick of sense (well it does, but it follows no bounds of logic), there's "Okay, now, what if someone does that with a real sword... And starts killing people. Something that could have been prevented has the officer ASSESSED THE SITUATION AND HANDLED IT LIKE HE IS SUPPOSED TO DO. Your stupid rule change just caused 20 people to die. Good job."  

You act as if the cops will suddenly go stupid once the rule goes into affect.  When they see someone swinging around a sword and blood and guts flying about, they'll just go "Hey, the rule about the peace-bond changed, what could I do?".  Note that they can still enforce whatever the hell they want.  If they want to see a Naruto group with one of the members drawing a sword as a threat they can.  The rules not going to stop them from doing what they do.

Speaking of things not stopping people from doing what they do, you seem to think that the plastic peace-bond is going to stop a crazed killer from going on a killing spree.  I can already see the reports, "Today, at an anime convention known as Fanime, a crazed citizen killed 20...  Oh only if there was a plastic wrap to have prevented him from drawing his sword and committing such a heinous crime."  Your argument is stupid.  If they have the resolve to kill someone, a piece of plastic is not going to stop them.  In fact, they wouldn't get the plastic thing in the first place, so your whole argument is demolished.

E) But like you said, law isn't canceled

aa) Yes, and neither is logic.  I've argued this already, (see all above points).  There is no law against possession of plastic or wooden weapons (or the whole of Toys R' Us would be confiscated).

bb) While it may or may not be true that drawing a sword is seen as threatening to a cop, the act is NOT against the law.  Yes, they can arrest you or take you into custody, but find me a law that prohibits the drawing of a wooden sword from a sheath.  Can't find it?  Oh.

2) Conclusion

I'm wholly disappointed at this argument.  You've done nothing but attack the attacker, use capslock and fallacies, and use sarcasm.  I remembered someone intelligent that posted, not some poster any /b/ troll could emulate.  Personal attacks don't constitute an argument against the plan (but if you have already, then hell go for it).  

Debate skills.  Get some.
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PyronIkari

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Re: Peace bonding
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2010, 10:14:00 PM »

1. Counterpoints

A) And you're still just whining because you want to be allowed to do something because you think it's okay to do at a convention... when it's not.

aa) In fact, the ruling on this issue at hand won't affect me in the least.  Of the three planned cosplays, only one has a sword and that will just be a prop on my back (Ironically my least likely to do, because the other two are more important to me).  So cut the presumptuous talk.  True, it has affected me in the past, but I bought a new one (Wooden since mine was live steel so I had to buy a new one anyway) and just had the tie around the hilt.  
Which is my point, it applied to you in the past so the reason still stands.

Quote
B) In regards to my question posed (Not answered since you don't like reading your opponents arguments, just rant on what you feel), the third party that posted answered my question.  I was asking since if you were staff and were as nearly immovable as you seem to be, then the whole argument would be pointless.

C) Fallacy - Because it's a con does not mean laws are not enforced

aa) The black hole was an analogy (English 101 pls).  Rules ARE more lax there.

bb) Backing up point aa, if all laws apply as normal, how did the drunk and disorderly conduct citation go along?  Didn't get one?  Yeah, didn't think so.  That's because things not normally acceptable are given leeway.  Don't know what I'm talking about?  Stage Zero, about 9-10p last Fanime.  California Penal Code 647; since when have you been so into what's lawful?
Oh, and just because you got away with being drunk and idiotic, means that no one got busted for it? Sorry, people did get busted for alcohol, public drunkeness and other things. People had alcohol confiscated and other things happened. But you got away with it, which must mean something right? Because laws are enforced doesn't mean that everyone that breaks the law is caught/punished. There are people that are out drunk almost every night and a lot of them don't get caught.

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You act as if the cops will suddenly go stupid once the rule goes into affect.  When they see someone swinging around a sword and blood and guts flying about, they'll just go "Hey, the rule about the peace-bond changed, what could I do?".  Note that they can still enforce whatever the hell they want.  If they want to see a Naruto group with one of the members drawing a sword as a threat they can.  The rules not going to stop them from doing what they do.
You assume that this is "stupid". And now you're just arguing specifics to not argue the point. "WELL SO AND SO CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS!" which again, doesn't apply to the argument. I can go run amok, kill dozens of people, and not get caught, how does that apply to laws not existing for a purpose? A police officer can pull over whoever they want based on "suspicion" does that mean we don't need laws in place? Yes, they can enforce whatever the hell they want, what in gods hell are you even arguing at this point?

They can enforce the rule? What rule? The point of unsheathing a sword? Once more that rule is in place to prevent confusion and allowance of people to do something that is deemed dangerous. SO WHY ENCOURAGE THE ACTION? If there were no peace bonding, cops can still enforce the rule, but why force extra work on them. The rules are telling you not to do it, you are saying "I SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO DO WHAT I WANT!"

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Speaking of things not stopping people from doing what they do, you seem to think that the plastic peace-bond is going to stop a crazed killer from going on a killing spree.  I can already see the reports, "Today, at an anime convention known as Fanime, a crazed citizen killed 20...  Oh only if there was a plastic wrap to have prevented him from drawing his sword and committing such a heinous crime."  Your argument is stupid.  If they have the resolve to kill someone, a piece of plastic is not going to stop them.  In fact, they wouldn't get the plastic thing in the first place, so your whole argument is demolished.
And once again, you are missing the point. That plastic means that staff has checked and okay'd that prop to be carried around. Now, if a person DOES draw their sword SJPD and staff will know that said person DIDN'T GET IT CHECKED and this person is now a risk to the safety of others and breaking con rules and possibly state law. This isn't about the people that can follow rules, this is about people that MIGHT NOT. This is about the protection of other people, because once more, this world isn't perfect and full of sunshine.

"I won't abuse a firearm, even though I'm 15 yo, why is there a law not allowing me to carry a gun around!"

That's what you're screaming about. Just because most people don't/won't break the law, just because most people don't/won't endanger others doesn't mean EVERYONE is like that. These rules exist for those that might/do break the law. Yeah, that 15 yo can still get a gun. That 15 yo can still shoot people with it, but the law still exists to protect a lot of people.

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aa) Yes, and neither is logic.  I've argued this already, (see all above points).  There is no law against possession of plastic or wooden weapons (or the whole of Toys R' Us would be confiscated).

bb) While it may or may not be true that drawing a sword is seen as threatening to a cop, the act is NOT against the law.  Yes, they can arrest you or take you into custody, but find me a law that prohibits the drawing of a wooden sword from a sheath.  Can't find it?  Oh.
Again, you missed the god damned point and are purposely not reading. What would happen if someone did that, and a cop pulled out his gun? What if a rover didn't know and tackled you to the ground because he couldn't see it was wood and THOUGHT you were going to swing it at someone? Besides the lawsuits between the involved parties, you just involved the convention, the convention grounds, and all of staff. You created an incident that would worry parents, and something that could be addressed on a higher level. Fanime is now a "questionable" convention because at the con, a police officer drew his gun, and someone swung his sword around. Because a staff member tackled someone down that looked like they were going to kill someone. Do you think that this will just be ignored? Do you think that people won't make a huge deal out of it? The con could probably get shut down. The convention center could possibly say "Nope, you can't have Fanime here any more". Parents can sue the con for allowing such dangerous conditions.

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2) Conclusion

I'm wholly disappointed at this argument.  You've done nothing but attack the attacker, use capslock and fallacies, and use sarcasm.  I remembered someone intelligent that posted, not some poster any /b/ troll could emulate.  Personal attacks don't constitute an argument against the plan (but if you have already, then hell go for it).  

Debate skills.  Get some.


AWWW some kid in a college debate class that thinks using an outline means a damn thing. You don't even understand what fallacies are because nothing I claimed was a fallacy. The things I claimed were potential consequences and situations, all of them realistic. You are only seeing this from the POV of a cosplayer that wants to draw his sword so he can take pictures, but not looking at the perspective of other guests, staff, law, parents, or anyone else for that matter. The act in itself SEEMS harmless, and it is harmless for the most part based on who is doing it. But there's still potential of things going wrong, rules are there to prevent these potential wrongs from happening. This isn't even really a debate, this is informing you why this rule exists. This is getting you to try and understand why something like this is put into affect and how it affects other people. Get your head out of your ass and instead of strawman arguing everything (yes... because that is what you're doing ZOMG DEBATE WORDS!!!!) stick to THE ACTUAL SUBJECT MATTER.

The subject matter is "Why do they peace bond the sword to the sheath even if it's a wooden sword".

Because, there is no way to tell whether or not a wooden sword is wooden when it's inside of the sheath. The action of unsheathing a sword is dangerous because one cannot assume the sword is wooden, and it's MORE LIKELY to believe that the sword is steel.

Why does that matter? Because this can create many problems. The action can be considered dangerous which may prompt action on the part of staff and SJPD. These actions may end innocently enough when the confusion of the sword being metal or wood is made more apparent, but when decisions are made in mere seconds, the consequences still last.

These consequences although unlikely could result in an officer even firing at someone. More realistically would cause a lot of legal issues between attendees, the SJPD and fanime con.

This may result in the convention being closed down, being sued for a lot of money, amongst the lesser bad publicity it would be guaranteed.

Now, what part of your little "skillfully debated splurge" in any way disproved any of that? These are all very real possibilities. Something you should keep in mind. I talk to staff at a lot of conventions, so I hear a lot of the stories of things that happen, and thankfully a lot of cons do pretty well and are pretty lucky in keeping things underwraps to the general attendees.

Conventions have rules to protect the attendees. Some of these rules may seem stupid or extreme, but most of them generally do make a lot of sense if you actually take the time to understand the rule. If you aren't happy with peace bonding, then don't go to the convention. The rules exists for the safety of others. They're not going to remove this rule just because a few cosplayers think it's unfair they can't pull out a sword to take a pretty picture.
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DivineChaos

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Re: Peace bonding
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2010, 10:50:22 PM »

See, now you're arguing correctly.

A) And you're still just whining because you want to be allowed to do something because you think it's okay to do at a convention... when it's not.

Which is my point, it applied to you in the past so the reason still stands.

"you want to be allowed to do something" Future tense.  Grammar is win.  I can't argue against something that is correct in your mind but not in writing.



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Oh, and just because you got away with being drunk and idiotic, means that no one got busted for it? Sorry, people did get busted for alcohol, public drunkeness and other things. People had alcohol confiscated and other things happened. But you got away with it, which must mean something right? Because laws are enforced doesn't mean that everyone that breaks the law is caught/punished. There are people that are out drunk almost every night and a lot of them don't get caught.

Actually it was a reference to you, rather than myself.  Didn't stay at Fanime the full weekend last year.  Was a sad day.

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You assume that this is "stupid". And now you're just arguing specifics to not argue the point. "WELL SO AND SO CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS!" which again, doesn't apply to the argument. I can go run amok, kill dozens of people, and not get caught, how does that apply to laws not existing for a purpose? A police officer can pull over whoever they want based on "suspicion" does that mean we don't need laws in place? Yes, they can enforce whatever the hell they want, what in gods hell are you even arguing at this point?

They can enforce the rule? What rule? The point of unsheathing a sword? Once more that rule is in place to prevent confusion and allowance of people to do something that is deemed dangerous. SO WHY ENCOURAGE THE ACTION? If there were no peace bonding, cops can still enforce the rule, but why force extra work on them. The rules are telling you not to do it, you are saying "I SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO DO WHAT I WANT!"

"Okay, now, what if someone does that with a real sword... And starts killing people. Something that could have been prevented has the officer ASSESSED THE SITUATION AND HANDLED IT LIKE HE IS SUPPOSED TO DO. Your stupid rule change just caused 20 people to die. Good job."

That's what I was referring to.  I keep my stuff organized not just for looks, but because I don't want to lose my arguments.  Your statement infers that because of the rule change, he could no longer "[assess] the situation and handled it like he is supposed to do".  Your the one that inferred created stupidity on the part of the police.  Good job.

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And once again, you are missing the point. That plastic means that staff has checked and okay'd that prop to be carried around. Now, if a person DOES draw their sword SJPD and staff will know that said person DIDN'T GET IT CHECKED and this person is now a risk to the safety of others and breaking con rules and possibly state law. This isn't about the people that can follow rules, this is about people that MIGHT NOT. This is about the protection of other people, because once more, this world isn't perfect and full of sunshine.

[Erased example because it's not an argument, but arguing point so it's still addressed]

And once again, you are missing the point.  That plastic means that staff has checked and okay'd the prop to be carried around.  Now, if the person DOES draw their sword SJPD and staff will know that said person DIDN'T GET IT CHECKED and this person is now a risk to the safety of other and breaking con rules and possible state law.  Except, in my case, the indicator is still there.  The plastic wraps are still in place.  So unless the person is going on a killing spree with a blunt wooden sword, we're still good on the safety meter as long as the checkers are competent.

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Again, you missed the god damned point and are purposely not reading. What would happen if someone did that, and a cop pulled out his gun? What if a rover didn't know and tackled you to the ground because he couldn't see it was wood and THOUGHT you were going to swing it at someone? Besides the lawsuits between the involved parties, you just involved the convention, the convention grounds, and all of staff. You created an incident that would worry parents, and something that could be addressed on a higher level. Fanime is now a "questionable" convention because at the con, a police officer drew his gun, and someone swung his sword around. Because a staff member tackled someone down that looked like they were going to kill someone. Do you think that this will just be ignored? Do you think that people won't make a huge deal out of it? The con could probably get shut down. The convention center could possibly say "Nope, you can't have Fanime here any more". Parents can sue the con for allowing such dangerous conditions.

Operating in what if's once more.  The same what if's can be applied in any scenario.  What if someone was running around with his sword and a cop pulled his gun?  What if a rover didn't know and tackled you to the ground because he couldn't see it was wood and THOUGHT you were going to swing it at someone?  It's so generic that it can be applied to any weapon waved anywhere.  You guys deal with the liability issue there, yet the simple act of drawing a sword is too threatening?  Moreso than walking around with it freely?  Moreso than moving it around?  The two previous ones are allowable, yet unsheathing is banned.  The problem again is the double standard that can't be fixed unless you either a) ban openly wielded weapons (unsheathed) or b) repeal the ban on the interlocking of sword and sheath.

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AWWW some kid in a college debate class that thinks using an outline means a damn thing. You don't even understand what fallacies are because nothing I claimed was a fallacy. The things I claimed were potential consequences and situations, all of them realistic. You are only seeing this from the POV of a cosplayer that wants to draw his sword so he can take pictures, but not looking at the perspective of other guests, staff, law, parents, or anyone else for that matter. The act in itself SEEMS harmless, and it is harmless for the most part based on who is doing it. But there's still potential of things going wrong, rules are there to prevent these potential wrongs from happening. This isn't even really a debate, this is informing you why this rule exists. This is getting you to try and understand why something like this is put into affect and how it affects other people. Get your head out of your ass and instead of strawman arguing everything (yes... because that is what you're doing ZOMG DEBATE WORDS!!!!) stick to THE ACTUAL SUBJECT MATTER.

Been thinking about taking that class actually.  More into politics, just lurk on my free time.  Lemme tell you why your argument is a fallacy.  While you do argue consequences, you don't argue the main issues (well you weren't before, but now you're getting there.  Your back to arguing intelligently, grats).  How can I say this?  I FORM the issues.  You were forming your own and going off on your own tangent, with about two points and the rest being sarcasm and capslock.

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The subject matter is "Why do they peace bond the sword to the sheath even if it's a wooden sword".

Because, there is no way to tell whether or not a wooden sword is wooden when it's inside of the sheath. The action of unsheathing a sword is dangerous because one cannot assume the sword is wooden, and it's MORE LIKELY to believe that the sword is steel.

Why does that matter? Because this can create many problems. The action can be considered dangerous which may prompt action on the part of staff and SJPD. These actions may end innocently enough when the confusion of the sword being metal or wood is made more apparent, but when decisions are made in mere seconds, the consequences still last.

These consequences although unlikely could result in an officer even firing at someone. More realistically would cause a lot of legal issues between attendees, the SJPD and fanime con.

This may result in the convention being closed down, being sued for a lot of money, amongst the lesser bad publicity it would be guaranteed.

Now, what part of your little "skillfully debated splurge" in any way disproved any of that? These are all very real possibilities. Something you should keep in mind. I talk to staff at a lot of conventions, so I hear a lot of the stories of things that happen, and thankfully a lot of cons do pretty well and are pretty lucky in keeping things underwraps to the general attendees.

Conventions have rules to protect the attendees. Some of these rules may seem stupid or extreme, but most of them generally do make a lot of sense if you actually take the time to understand the rule. If you aren't happy with peace bonding, then don't go to the convention. The rules exists for the safety of others. They're not going to remove this rule just because a few cosplayers think it's unfair they can't pull out a sword to take a pretty picture.

No, there is a way to tell if it is wooden or not.  That's what the damn peace-bond does.  It indicates safety, does it not?  I don't feel like backtracking and checking the definition, but ultimately that's the purpose it fulfills.  If it's a wooden sword, it receives a peace-bond.  If it's not, then it doesn't.  That's the point.

You argue that they don't know if it's wood or not.  I say that the peace-bond indicates that.  They see it, then no problem.  Someone's drawing a sword, it has a bright yellow, pink, orange or whatever horrid color you want, and then you know it's been checked and is safe.  I conceded that you can even tag the sheath itself as well if you want double protection. 

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DivineChaos

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Re: Peace bonding
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2010, 11:12:03 PM »

Heading out to bed.  I'll reply w/e response in the afternoon tomorrow lol.  Was a fun day.  gg day1
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PyronIkari

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Re: Peace bonding
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2010, 11:14:40 PM »

I'm not even going to address the rest of this dribble. A little college kid thinks he knows what debate is and is acting all high and mighty, despite not arguing any real points and just attacking literal words and grammar.
No, there is a way to tell if it is wooden or not.  That's what the damn peace-bond does.  It indicates safety, does it not?  I don't feel like backtracking and checking the definition, but ultimately that's the purpose it fulfills.  If it's a wooden sword, it receives a peace-bond.  If it's not, then it doesn't.  That's the point.

You argue that they don't know if it's wood or not.  I say that the peace-bond indicates that.  They see it, then no problem.  Someone's drawing a sword, it has a bright yellow, pink, orange or whatever horrid color you want, and then you know it's been checked and is safe.  I conceded that you can even tag the sheath itself as well if you want double protection. 

A wooden sword is 3 ft long if based on a standard katana. One can see this very easily. A zip tie, is about 3 inches, and it usually at the hilt of a sword, where a person would be holding if drawing a sword from its sheath. Are you saying, if you were looking around, and you saw someone unsheath a sword you would be able to tell whether or not that sword had a zip tie on it in the .2 seconds it takes to draw a sword?

Seriously kid, you aren't arguing, you're whining. The point of arguing is to make others see your point of view as to why something should or shouldn't be. You're complaining and trying to poke holes in specific examples and actions (which you have yet to even disprove any).

I gave examples of things that are possibilities. You are trying to disprove those possibilities with possibilities within those possibilities. This doesn't disprove the possibility, it just shows an example where the possibility doesn't apply. That doesn't help your argument. That just makes you a whiny brat.

Think about how a 5-6yr old kid argues with his parent, that's what you're doing.
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Mizuki

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Re: Peace bonding
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2010, 02:43:58 AM »

In short, rules are rules, there's a reason why they're implemented, although rules are also meant to be challenged, only if you have valid points, I just see none of this. Anyways, the point of the topic has been squashed, and I see there is nothing else to contribute to the topic of the thread. This thread is locked.
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