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Author Topic: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet  (Read 6782 times)

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Chun

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FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« on: May 14, 2010, 10:13:58 PM »

Why Friday. WHY.

Especially considering Swap Meet registration and selling period. People expected a settle/panel day on Friday. People pre-registered to sell goods that day because they know the majority of weekend settlers are there.

WHO'S IDEA WAS IT TO HAVE MUSICFEST SO LATE-NOTIFIED AND SHIFTED TO THAT DAY.
Afternoon, ok, that works.
BUT NIGHT TO THROW OFF THE FOOT-TRAFFIC TO SELLERS AND ESSENTIALLY THOSE WHO PREPPED FOR SWAP MEET TO GO FUCK THEMSELVES?

Flow is freaking humongous. People know FLOW everywhere. They are absolutely huge not only in the Anime sense, but the industry sense, and this is going to generate tons of line congestion for pass tickets in general.

This is absolutely messed up, to announce this so late in the game after all the previous formalities. Sure, the finalized schedule is usually late, but this just crosses a line.

Mod edit: split and title rename
Chun: Not that Reasonable, but Thanks Mod.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 11:39:16 PM by Chun »
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Re: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2010, 11:04:39 PM »

I don't think LM.C and FLOW can exist in one day.
You can't have that on Monday, Sunday is LM.C, Saturday is the Masquerade, so Friday is the only day that's really available. I know someone is going to say put FLOW on Saturday before the Masquerade, but then you run risk of running the Masquerade late and also deny those who rehearse,block, and verify the audio at the Civic Center.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 11:19:12 PM by ewu »
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Re: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2010, 11:05:51 PM »

Why Friday. WHY.

Especially considering Swap Meet registration and selling period. People expected a settle/panel day on Friday. People pre-registered to sell goods that day because they know the majority of weekend settlers are there.
Ditto.... I'm soooo upset it'll slow down swap meet traffic
« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 11:19:21 PM by ewu »
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Acid_Android

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Re: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2010, 11:14:53 PM »

Why Friday. WHY. Especially considering Swap Meet registration and selling period. People expected a settle/panel day on Friday. WHO'S IDEA WAS IT TO HAVE MUSICFEST SO LATE-NOTIFIED AND SHIFTED TO THAT DAY. AFTERNOON, OK, THAT WORKS. BUT NIGHT TO THROW OFF THE FOOT-TRAFFIC TO SELLERS?!

Way to screw pre-reg for the rest of us!

[/honest rage]

Uhm, if anyone has been paying attention, we've had MusicFest on Fridays for the past two years that overlapped with the same time that people started lining up for Swap Meet.  And only NOW it becomes problem because our Friday concert has a big band that people have been requesting for a while...?

With a convention of this size, it's only to be expected that some events are going to overlap and/or conflict. Black & White Ball overlaps with my Sunday concert, and does that affect the attendance? Yes, it can, but then again, those are two different events, and the people who are inclined to go to one event may not even consider going to the other one.

I can sympathize with you more than you realize. For as long as I've been with MusicFest, there have always been other events out there that have taken away potential audience members from the concerts, almost to the point where those numbers affected my negotiations for potential guests. It's just something that you have to deal with when you have an event at a convention.

From the replies on the thread, it seems there are SOME people out there who are happy to have another event option for Friday.

As for the late announcement, that is something that can't be discussed, but I can tell you, this took more than a year and a half out of my life to establish and plan in order to make something happen that attendees have been asking for for the past few years.  

This wasn't done to spite Swap Meet but to GIVE THE ATTENDEES WHAT THEY ASKED FOR. >:(
« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 11:19:32 PM by ewu »
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Re: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2010, 11:22:37 PM »

I'm not trying to be negative but I'd like good traffic but I'd like to go to the concert but I can't :(
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Re: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2010, 11:23:03 PM »

Ditto.... I'm soooo upset it'll slow down swap meet traffic

Aside from the scheduling issues mentioned, I'd like to point out that Swap Meet is for you all to share your goods, get rare things, and to find a new home for things that are no longer wanted....and not for your wallet:)
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Chun

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Re: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2010, 11:23:44 PM »

Why Friday. WHY. Especially considering Swap Meet registration and selling period. People expected a settle/panel day on Friday. WHO'S IDEA WAS IT TO HAVE MUSICFEST SO LATE-NOTIFIED AND SHIFTED TO THAT DAY. AFTERNOON, OK, THAT WORKS. BUT NIGHT TO THROW OFF THE FOOT-TRAFFIC TO SELLERS?!

Way to screw pre-reg for the rest of us!

[/honest rage]

Uhm, if anyone has been paying attention, we've had MusicFest on Fridays for the past two years that overlapped with the same time that people started lining up for Swap Meet.  And only NOW it becomes problem because our Friday concert has a big band that people have been requesting for a while...?

With a convention of this size, it's only to be expected that some events are going to overlap and/or conflict. Black & White Ball overlaps with my Sunday concert, and does that affect the attendance? Yes, it can, but then again, those are two different events, and the people who are inclined to go to one event may not even consider going to the other one.

I can sympathize with you more than you realize. For as long as I've been with MusicFest, there have always been other events out there that have taken away potential audience members from the concerts, almost to the point where those numbers affected my negotiations for potential guests. It's just something that you have to deal with when you have an event at a convention.

From the replies on the thread, it seems there are SOME people out there who are happy to have another event option for Friday.

As for the late announcement, that is something that can't be discussed, but I can tell you, this took more than a year and a half out of my life to establish and plan in order to make something happen that attendees have been asking for for the past few years.  

This wasn't done to spite Swap Meet but to GIVE THE ATTENDEES WHAT THEY ASKED FOR. >:(


You don't place emphasis in advertising a service that people pay for (Swap Meet) only to mention at the last minute one of the BIGGEST NAMES IN JP MUSIC to kill people out of selling plans. As of now the list of Swap Meet sellers is approximately 200+ including the waiting list; It doesn't matter if it wasn't done to spite Swap Meet.

What you are insinuating is that Swap Meet sellers are not as important as attendees (Who are also attendees), and are not as important in the course of events.

Yes, B&W Ball and Concert are two different things that people must choose from. But these things are freely attend-able, without previous fees planning and registration; show up and go. People that are planning things to sell and preparing paperwork as well as the fees work are not the same level as the events or Panels. Swap meet is money talks. Money.

If this initiative was planned in the first, it should have been announced that much earlier, to prevent misleading registration of the meet in light of possible selling opportunity.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 11:29:51 PM by Chun »
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Re: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2010, 12:07:41 AM »

Why Friday. WHY. Especially considering Swap Meet registration and selling period. People expected a settle/panel day on Friday. WHO'S IDEA WAS IT TO HAVE MUSICFEST SO LATE-NOTIFIED AND SHIFTED TO THAT DAY. AFTERNOON, OK, THAT WORKS. BUT NIGHT TO THROW OFF THE FOOT-TRAFFIC TO SELLERS?!

Way to screw pre-reg for the rest of us!

[/honest rage]

Uhm, if anyone has been paying attention, we've had MusicFest on Fridays for the past two years that overlapped with the same time that people started lining up for Swap Meet.  And only NOW it becomes problem because our Friday concert has a big band that people have been requesting for a while...?

With a convention of this size, it's only to be expected that some events are going to overlap and/or conflict. Black & White Ball overlaps with my Sunday concert, and does that affect the attendance? Yes, it can, but then again, those are two different events, and the people who are inclined to go to one event may not even consider going to the other one.

I can sympathize with you more than you realize. For as long as I've been with MusicFest, there have always been other events out there that have taken away potential audience members from the concerts, almost to the point where those numbers affected my negotiations for potential guests. It's just something that you have to deal with when you have an event at a convention.

From the replies on the thread, it seems there are SOME people out there who are happy to have another event option for Friday.

As for the late announcement, that is something that can't be discussed, but I can tell you, this took more than a year and a half out of my life to establish and plan in order to make something happen that attendees have been asking for for the past few years.  

This wasn't done to spite Swap Meet but to GIVE THE ATTENDEES WHAT THEY ASKED FOR. >:(


You don't place emphasis in advertising a service that people pay for (Swap Meet) only to mention at the last minute one of the BIGGEST NAMES IN JP MUSIC to kill people out of selling plans. As of now the list of Swap Meet sellers is approximately 200+ including the waiting list; It doesn't matter if it wasn't done to spite Swap Meet.

What you are insinuating is that Swap Meet sellers are not as important as attendees (Who are also attendees), and are not as important in the course of events.

Yes, B&W Ball and Concert are two different things that people must choose from. But these things are freely attend-able, without previous fees planning and registration; show up and go. People that are planning things to sell and preparing paperwork as well as the fees work are not the same level as the events or Panels. Swap meet is money talks. Money.

If this initiative was planned in the first, it should have been announced that much earlier, to prevent misleading registration of the meet in light of possible selling opportunity.


There are people who will go to MusicFest and there are people who will go to Swap Meet. Do you know how many times I've run up and down the convention center to hand out flyers for MusicFest's Friday shows only to be told "I don't do concerts." ?? There are different kinds of attendees out there who won't care about FLOW but will care about going to Swap Meet and vice versa. Quite honestly, I don't think this is something to panic over.

And I would greatly appreciate it if didn't put words in my mouth. I NEVER stated that SM Sellers weren't important.

What I said was we listened to the attendees, and we gave them what they asked for. Simple as that. Friday is the only logical day to put that concert, and like I've stated previously, we've had concerts on Fridays for the past two years, and this year wasn't going to be an exception.

As for why things weren't announced sooner...Again, I can't talk about it for confidential reasons. This has been planned for a very long time, but the process of announcing is much more complicated than anyone realizes until they actually have to go through it. And it can drag on and on and on, and a LOT of people get involved. We planned and pushed for a much earlier announcement, but with all things, delays and other crap happened.

When you get involved in taking part in a convention, you HAVE to keep in mind that there will always be conflicting schedules. That's the nature of the beast.
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Re: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2010, 12:24:52 AM »

...and you know, some people have no idea who this group is.

Or care honestly.

For fans of them, good they can go see it. But trust me, there will still be people to go to Swap Meet.

I'll certainly be there.
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Chun

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Re: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2010, 12:29:30 AM »

I've been going to this convention for what is now 6 years. I've come to accept sudden schedule changes, but you don't see the point; people made plans to ship/bring and sell their goods in what they believed to be an extremely good place to do it, as expected, the more often Friday swap meet. After locking in all the registration for the spaces and planning for the event, putting one of the biggest names into a concert that overlaps that original planned time ruins the fans that are expecting for swap meet. If this was an afternoon performance, sure, that would be considerate to those prepared for it. However, just utterly eclipsing those prepared in the first place hurts them and their sales potential. People use the money from Swap to buy things from other swap or other parts of convention; this much is true. We're not true dealers, sure. But the money obtained further encourages purchase fandom after events and other services/games that are run there.

You can't tell people how to manage their money, sure. But you can prevent actions that would damage the plans of a hundred with WELL worth's notice.

Gwy: FLOW did Code Geass, Naruto, and a lot of songs people recognize (To be honest, what always boggled my mind is that this is a Anime Convention, yet the artists sometimes every year are so out of Anime scope it's more like J-Rock/Artist Convention). They're absolutely huge. People on every worthy anime blog know who this group is due to the geass phenomenon, and they're just big in general. Holding a concert of someone of this recognizably on top of people that are fans. You have any idea how fast Geass sold in Japan and worldwide? People know of the series so much and this artist's song on high.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 12:38:12 AM by Chun »
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Re: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2010, 12:39:49 AM »

Swap Meet and all the other programs that Fanime offers, aside from dealers, is not for the participants to make a killing off their sales. Dealers fork out nearly a thousand dollars to compete against all the other events during dealer hours. For a swap meet spot you pay $10 or $20...for the same amount of floor space as a dealer. The Swap Meet and Fanime itself is not for members to make money but to provide entertainment and programming; exactly what FLOW, LM.C and Swap Meet provide, exclusively.
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Re: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2010, 12:41:35 AM »

I'm wondering if swap meet can be changed to a little bit later time or at least give the registered seller a little more leeway so they can at least keep their spots until sometime after the concert is over since swap meet doesn't end until 1AM (which I doubt is when the concert will end). That way, it's an incentive for the people who are looking to buy at the swap meet to stay longer to wait for those other sellers. But the problem is the sellers who are on the waitlist. I mean, I guess they can agree to keep the space to sell (people on the wait list) until the concert is over then hand it over (the spot) to the registered seller to sell. Maybe some form of agreement can be made beforehand between people who are on waitlist to stay until the registered seller return? Kinda takes care of the problem with the waitlist as well.

...just throwing random thoughts out so don't mind me if it's a silly and worthless idea :X
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Chun

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Re: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2010, 12:51:32 AM »

I'm up for solutions here. The main concern I have is simply the fact that selling in the swap meet, because of the extremely late announcement time, kills you from being able to go to the FLOW concert. It matters not what you think people will do with their spaces; they could be selling as an occasional seller leisure of collection, but also maybe because times are tough and they need the money back--these reasonings don't matter. Fanime provides a place to sell, trade, and barter, and it ends there; reasoning for why people do it is moot, and up until yesterday people that were confirmed to sell planned accordingly.

It feels like people were given the belief they could sell on a relatively empty day as noted in the programming on the website, only to be met with a guest of such popularity out of nowhere to tease.

FLOW is a humongous influence, and the choice was made such that Swap Meet attendees cannot go because of last minute events. Some sort of definitive time change is in order, or at the very least such that swap meet isn't absolutely overshadowed.

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Re: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2010, 12:54:58 AM »

Since you want to go to the FLOW concert, can you check in your spot then pay someone you know like a percentage of what you make as a sacrifice to go watch the concert? Yet another possibility..>_>;
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Re: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2010, 12:57:00 AM »

Since you want to go to the FLOW concert, can you check in your spot then pay someone you know like a percentage of what you make as a sacrifice to go watch the concert? Yet another possibility..>_>;

That's an idea I considered too for all sellers, but the bloody time frame isn't posted either, and processing time will make it ambiguous further down the list.
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Re: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2010, 01:00:13 AM »

Ohnos, something at fanime... is scheduled when something else is scheduled? OMG WHAT? REALLY? SERIOUSLY? THERE ARE THINGS... AT... THE SAME TIME?

I understand the reasoning to not be happy with this, but this is just childish to be whining about it. Musicfest has been the same time for years now. We all knew it was going to be friday night, you just didn't know who. Okay, let's say they announced it earlier, would it have changed anything?

The entire convention is not going to the concert, and people will go to the swapmeet. I don't understand why you're complaining about this at all. It's just childish. I find it more funny though that you're not complaining about "not being able to go see them because you have a place at the dealers hall" over "People won't buy my stuff because they will be at the concert!"

Are you serious? The dealers hall people should complain, because the con is getting good guests, which means people will spend less time in the dealers hall... HURTING THEIR SALES, right? Or the maid cafe should complain about stage zero existing, because people go to stage zero, instead of the maid cafe.

Sorry, but this is just dumb. Seriously dumb. There's about 100 people that didn't get space at the swapmeet at all, because they were a few hours late in registering. The waiting list for the swapmeet is ridiculous, and you're complaining because of a concert taking potential customers? Oh, maybe a thousand or so people will be at the concert, out of the 15k+ people that go to fanime every year. People will still be there at the swapmeet.

HERE'S A DEAL, give up your spot, and stop whining then, and let someone else have it, there's a ton of people that will gladly take it off your little hands.

EDIT: Oh you did finally mention the wanting to go to the concert...

Oh ho hoho... Maybe you shouldn't have picked a spot during musicfest when you didn't know what band would be playing.

Person to blame? You.
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Re: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2010, 01:03:06 AM »

I assume the concert for FLOW won't be more than 2 hours and some odd whatever minutes if that. Swap meet starts from 8PM till 1AM, a total of 5 hours, and I know that people still stick around till the end since it is a major event. Regardless of the time frame as long as you have someone to watch your stuff and sell it for you, you can go. In fact, why isn't it possible to have your VERY good friend line up for you and then you leave the concert close to your position in line after a text. Check your stuff in at swap meet and run back to the concert again (if it's within the rules). Probably won't be more than 20 minutes you miss going back and forth. Considering the benefit of being able to both sell at the swap meet and go to the majority of the concert ( at worst), I'd say it's worth it.
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Re: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2010, 01:09:58 AM »

I assume the concert for FLOW won't be more than 2 hours and some odd whatever minutes if that. Swap meet starts from 8PM till 1AM, a total of 5 hours, and I know that people still stick around till the end since it is a major event. Regardless of the time frame as long as you have someone to watch your stuff and sell it for you, you can go. In fact, why isn't it possible to have your VERY good friend line up for you and then you leave the concert close to your position in line after a text. Check your stuff in at swap meet and run back to the concert again. Probably won't be more than 20 minutes you miss going back and forth. Considering the benefit of being able to both sell at the swap meet and go to the majority of the concert ( at worst), I'd say it's worth it.

Get this logic business out of here! Logic assumes that sellers have to have friends to have them be able to watch their stuff. Logic also assumes that the entire conventions will not be going to the swapmeet because flow is going to be there, and FLOW IS GIGANTIC! FLOW IS JAPAN'S MUSIC INDUSTRY, and everyone will go, so the swapmeet will make money. Stupid logic and its assumptions.

This is seriously a non-issue. there are many events at fanime. You can't go to all of them. Scheduling things happen and you have to plan in advance. Assuming that a band one wouldn't want to see was a risk you took with getting a swapmeet spot. It's the same with a lot of other stuff. You deal with it. It's like whining and causing a scene that NorCalRegionals was announced 3 weeks ago the same weekend as fanime, and I can't go. It sucks but, hey you know what...



SUCK IT UP AND DEAL WITH IT LIKE A BIG BOY.
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Re: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2010, 01:11:47 AM »

Just to address several points.

Why Friday? We've been planning for a Friday concert for MusicFest every year since I became Division Head 3 years ago. We start planning for next year's convention as soon as the current convention is over. We do take a few days to sleep and recover but MusicFest starts planning right away. And we plan YEAR ROUND. It takes a great deal of time to get Musical Guests who we think would fit well with our attendees.

Attendees at Swap Meet are just as important as attendees at MusicFest. We do not distinguish them since we care about ALL our attendees. Unfortunately, there will be scheduling conflicts of events for a convention of our size. We trust that our attendees are mature enough to make their decisions about what they want to attend or not. Whether it's selling their artwork at Artist Alley or going to panels/gatherings or participating in the Cosplay Spectacular or catching one of the MusicFest concerts. 

It is unfair to say that one event is planned to spite another event. This is completely untrue. MusicFest would still have a concert on Friday regardless of the band. This is not planned to spite those attendees who are committed to one event but want to come to the concerts. It's just the way it happened. (Especially if it's a band that people really want to see.)

The timing of the announcement is what it is because we only announce when everything is official. This includes the suggestions that attendees make to when everything is in hand and ready to be announced. There's a lot going on behind the scenes and we don't have much control on the time it takes to get this out. Sometimes it happens sooner (like announcing LM.C), sometimes it happens later (like announcing FLOW), and sometimes we worked really hard on something only to have it fall through the cracks (like with UVERworld years ago).   That's just how it is.
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Re: FLOW's Friday performance and Swap Meet
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2010, 01:18:44 AM »

I assume the concert for FLOW won't be more than 2 hours and some odd whatever minutes if that. Swap meet starts from 8PM till 1AM, a total of 5 hours, and I know that people still stick around till the end since it is a major event. Regardless of the time frame as long as you have someone to watch your stuff and sell it for you, you can go. In fact, why isn't it possible to have your VERY good friend line up for you and then you leave the concert close to your position in line after a text. Check your stuff in at swap meet and run back to the concert again. Probably won't be more than 20 minutes you miss going back and forth. Considering the benefit of being able to both sell at the swap meet and go to the majority of the concert ( at worst), I'd say it's worth it.

Get this logic business out of here! Logic assumes that sellers have to have friends to have them be able to watch their stuff. Logic also assumes that the entire conventions will not be going to the swapmeet because flow is going to be there, and FLOW IS GIGANTIC! FLOW IS JAPAN'S MUSIC INDUSTRY, and everyone will go, so the swapmeet will make money. Stupid logic and its assumptions.

This is seriously a non-issue. there are many events at fanime. You can't go to all of them. Scheduling things happen and you have to plan in advance. Assuming that a band one wouldn't want to see was a risk you took with getting a swapmeet spot. It's the same with a lot of other stuff. You deal with it. It's like whining and causing a scene that NorCalRegionals was announced 3 weeks ago the same weekend as fanime, and I can't go. It sucks but, hey you know what...



SUCK IT UP AND DEAL WITH IT LIKE A BIG BOY.

I didn't make that post for everyone to follow and honestly, it turned out to sound different than what I meant for it to be now that I read back on it... -_-

... least it didn't sound as horrible as my previous ideas.

Either way, he's upset and I'm trying to think of a way for it to work out since he's obviously upset enough to make a topic about it.
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Otakon Press, 2012
Anime Expo Press, 2008-2012
Anime Central Press, 2008
THEManime.org, Staff
Animesou.com, Editor
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