Guests: anime artists & mangaka (split)

Started by cutiebunny, August 25, 2010, 03:54:44 AM

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cutiebunny

More Japanese anime artists & mangaka please.  This is why I attend conventions, and why I also chose to attend Fanime this year.

I could care less about the American dub voicers, but, I understand that that's one of the things that brings in a lot of the younger fanbase.

Also, I'd like to see MangaGamer(they localize H-games) at Fanime in 2011.  They brought along 8 great Japanese artists, and I would absolutely love to meet & purchase shikishi from whatever artists they might bring to Fanime.

PyronIkari

Quote from: cutiebunny on August 25, 2010, 03:54:44 AM
More Japanese anime artists & mangaka please.  This is why I attend conventions, and why I also chose to attend Fanime this year.

I could care less about the American dub voicers, but, I understand that that's one of the things that brings in a lot of the younger fanbase.

Also, I'd like to see MangaGamer(they localize H-games) at Fanime in 2011.  They brought along 8 great Japanese artists, and I would absolutely love to meet & purchase shikishi from whatever artists they might bring to Fanime.
Or... we could just ask Ponyoyo Rock to come directly, and cut out the middleman completely. The thing with MangaGamers... I don't know if you have played one of their localized games, but as someone who has worked in translation and localization... their company makes me cringe at the state of how things are. Their translation and localization is some of the absolutely worse abominations I have ever seen. They're on par with some of the worser fansubs, or at times, even bad Chinese ripoff fansubs. So if you want a company to come to Fanime, just so they can bring an artist(they only brought one artist you realize, and her team of shaders/colorers/inkers/etc.).

cutiebunny

Quote from: PyronIkari on August 25, 2010, 04:33:21 PMSo if you want a company to come to Fanime, just so they can bring an artist(they only brought one artist you realize, and her team of shaders/colorers/inkers/etc.).

That's not quite true.  They had nine artists(Takano, Fuyura, Fujimaru, Katakura, Miyata, Himukai, Watanabe, Kuuchuu & Fumio).  Some of them, like Akio Watanabe, were well known.  He was character designer for "Nurse Witch Komugi-chan", "Bakemonogatari" and worked on some other projects(like the Sailormoon SuperS movie & Kiki's Delivery Service).  Others, like Shinjii Katakura, I had never heard of(though, I thought his artwork was the most impressive of the 7 that I purchased shikishi from).

The artists that attended worked for three different companies, so I can't see where it is "one artist and her team of shaders/colorers/inkers".  Also, Miyata's coloring job was poor.  There are 10 year olds that can color better.

Considering the amount of work the artists did(about 20 shikishi/day) and at $30-$60 a pop(black/white versions were cheaper), I thought they did fantastic.

Regardless of your opinion of MangaGamer's localization abilities, the artists, themselves, deserve credit.  It's not easy being in that industry - long hours and crummy pay.  Personally, I'd rather support the artists directly than buy the game, and, if I'm lucky, $1 might go back into the artist's pocket.  Sure, MG probably took a cut of what the artists earned, but, hopefully, they were able to keep a good portion of the price each person paid per shikishi. 

Most AX & MangaGamer booth attendees felt that, without the artists that MG brought, their AX experience would have been completely ruined.  And I agree.  AX was incredibly poor this year.  Had it not been for MG, I would have walked out on the first day.

PyronIkari

Quote from: cutiebunny on August 27, 2010, 01:44:42 AM
Quote from: PyronIkari on August 25, 2010, 04:33:21 PMSo if you want a company to come to Fanime, just so they can bring an artist(they only brought one artist you realize, and her team of shaders/colorers/inkers/etc.).

That's not quite true.  They had nine artists(Takano, Fuyura, Fujimaru, Katakura, Miyata, Himukai, Watanabe, Kuuchuu & Fumio).  Some of them, like Akio Watanabe, were well known.  He was character designer for "Nurse Witch Komugi-chan", "Bakemonogatari" and worked on some other projects(like the Sailormoon SuperS movie & Kiki's Delivery Service).  Others, like Shinjii Katakura, I had never heard of(though, I thought his artwork was the most impressive of the 7 that I purchased shikishi from).

The artists that attended worked for three different companies, so I can't see where it is "one artist and her team of shaders/colorers/inkers".  Also, Miyata's coloring job was poor.  There are 10 year olds that can color better.

Considering the amount of work the artists did(about 20 shikishi/day) and at $30-$60 a pop(black/white versions were cheaper), I thought they did fantastic.

Regardless of your opinion of MangaGamer's localization abilities, the artists, themselves, deserve credit.  It's not easy being in that industry - long hours and crummy pay.  Personally, I'd rather support the artists directly than buy the game, and, if I'm lucky, $1 might go back into the artist's pocket.  Sure, MG probably took a cut of what the artists earned, but, hopefully, they were able to keep a good portion of the price each person paid per shikishi. 

Most AX & MangaGamer booth attendees felt that, without the artists that MG brought, their AX experience would have been completely ruined.  And I agree.  AX was incredibly poor this year.  Had it not been for MG, I would have walked out on the first day.

As I said... one artist... and their team. And again... why not ask the artist directly instead? Besides the obvious bias you're showing for something you don't know about, I don't get why you're pushing so much for Manga Gamers to come.

Yes yes, I know who it is, and if you noticed... I said it in my first post. No one really calls Watanabe Akio.... Watanabe Akio. But ok.... whatever.

As for financial reasonings. Again, assumptions based on things you don't know about. And don't even start about "AX" as a convention because that's a ball of hell that we should not get into on these forums.

cutiebunny

Quote from: PyronIkari on August 27, 2010, 04:44:04 AM
As I said... one artist... and their team. And again... why not ask the artist directly instead? Besides the obvious bias you're showing for something you don't know about, I don't get why you're pushing so much for Manga Gamers to come.

Yes yes, I know who it is, and if you noticed... I said it in my first post. No one really calls Watanabe Akio.... Watanabe Akio. But ok.... whatever.

As for financial reasonings. Again, assumptions based on things you don't know about. And don't even start about "AX" as a convention because that's a ball of hell that we should not get into on these forums.

Artists usually don't become famous overnight.  It takes years of sketches as an inbetweener, key animator and so forth to actually get somewhere.  Most of these artists were in their 20s.  Give them a chance.  Or perhaps we should compare them to your accomplishments in your 20s(if you're that old yet..) and hold them to a higher standard?

I love your gross general assumption that no one really 'cares' about these people.  Really?  So the group of fans in line who all ran over to the MangaGamer booth to be one of the first 10 people for the Watanabe shikishi were just running over there to give their money to the artist for the heck of it?  The people that chose to rant online about not getting Watanabe's autograph obviously don't care either.  Many MG shikishi have sold for several times more than their initial price on the Japanese version of E-bay, Yahoo Japan.  But yeah, clearly, no one cares about these artists.


You also don't seem to have much experience dealing with Japanese companies.  Really?  Call up the artist and ask them to come?  Really? Let me call 1-800-KUU-CHUU and get Kuuchuu to come to my house today!  Seriously.  Companies and artists also think of their interests as well.  I wouldn't be surprised if some of these companies were offering their employees the trip to AX as an incentive for their hard work.  If you're only getting paid $15K a year in Japan, having the opportunity to make your monthly salary in 4 days time might be valuable to them.

Or what if the artist specifically stated that their 'colorers'(the term you used) had to come too?  Should a convention deny their request?

By the way, I'm not affiliated with MangaGamer at all.  I haven't received a cent for posting anything about them.  But I appreciated being able to meet artists and purchase top notch artwork from them.  So did the many other people I spoke with, all of whom went to Fanime for the artists, and would most likely return should some of these H-game artists showed up.

I am curious to know about the 'financial reasons' you mentioned.  I do not see why it would not be easy to contact MangaGamer and bring artists over.  In other threads, I've read how gamers felt that there wasn't enough for them to buy at the convention.  Since MG sold some games too, here's a whole booth geared towards a good portion of them.  Their booth was tasteful(considering they were selling H-games), it was always crowded and I don't think any children were scarred from the experience.  Actually, some of the artists drew stuff, for free, for the little tykes.


PyronIkari

sigh sigh sigh...

Learn to read better plz. When did I say no one cares about the artist. I merely said most people don't call the artist Watanabe Akio, and call him by his pen name. So let's ignore that long rant you put. PS, I've been a fan since about 2000, so don't give me that crap.

I don't have experience dealing with JP companies? Really? I've only worked for one for a number of years, have contacts with a bunch of people in the anime industry, had dinner with a handful of them, even a few musicians at that. Sorry, I guess those experiences aren't much, would you share some knowledge with an unexperienced person as my self? Note, I mentioned I worked in translation and localization for a number of years. That localization was for Japanese products to be released in the US.

QuoteYou also don't seem to have much experience dealing with Japanese companies.  Really?  Call up the artist and ask them to come?  Really? Let me call 1-800-KUU-CHUU and get Kuuchuu to come to my house today!  Seriously.  Companies and artists also think of their interests as well.  I wouldn't be surprised if some of these companies were offering their employees the trip to AX as an incentive for their hard work.  If you're only getting paid $15K a year in Japan, having the opportunity to make your monthly salary in 4 days time might be valuable to them.
It seems like you're the one that doesn't understand how companies work, but let me explain. Artists don't work for Manga Gamers... I hope you know that. They are not EMPLOYEES of the company, and they came as guest. That's like assuming Asakawa Yuu and Ho-chan are employees of NiS because they came with them. Manga Gamers invited them as a guest, paid their way there, and they agreed.

If you're getting paid 15k a year in Japan... ... ... just stop. It's obvious you don't know anything about the industry, who makes what, who does what, and why things happen. Seriously, just stop.

Fanime invites guests to its convention. They E-mail/Call places and invite different people to come to Fanime as a guest. If the guest agrees they discuss a contract based on what will be paid for, and if the guest agrees, they sign and they attend Fanime based on that agreement. That is how things work. MangaGamers did the same thing, AX does the same thing, Otakon, every convention basically does this for the majority of their guests. Occasionally things are different where the guest offers to come, and pay their own way(like a certain guest at Fanime does) but generally... this is how things work.

Don't even talk about JP companies and salaries though, it's obvious you read some blog like kotaku or Sankaku Complex and think you know how the industry works. How animators are paid, why they're paid what they are, etc... you don't know a damned thing.

cutiebunny

Quote from: PyronIkari on August 27, 2010, 03:33:40 PM
sigh sigh sigh...

Learn to read better plz. When did I say no one cares about the artist. I merely said most people don't call the artist Watanabe Akio, and call him by his pen name. So let's ignore that long rant you put. PS, I've been a fan since about 2000, so don't give me that crap.

I don't have experience dealing with JP companies? Really? I've only worked for one for a number of years, have contacts with a bunch of people in the anime industry, had dinner with a handful of them, even a few musicians at that. Sorry, I guess those experiences aren't much, would you share some knowledge with an unexperienced person as my self? Note, I mentioned I worked in translation and localization for a number of years. That localization was for Japanese products to be released in the US.

It seems like you're the one that doesn't understand how companies work, but let me explain. Artists don't work for Manga Gamers... I hope you know that. They are not EMPLOYEES of the company, and they came as guest. That's like assuming Asakawa Yuu and Ho-chan are employees of NiS because they came with them. Manga Gamers invited them as a guest, paid their way there, and they agreed.

If you're getting paid 15k a year in Japan... ... ... just stop. It's obvious you don't know anything about the industry, who makes what, who does what, and why things happen. Seriously, just stop.

Fanime invites guests to its convention. They E-mail/Call places and invite different people to come to Fanime as a guest. If the guest agrees they discuss a contract based on what will be paid for, and if the guest agrees, they sign and they attend Fanime based on that agreement. That is how things work. MangaGamers did the same thing, AX does the same thing, Otakon, every convention basically does this for the majority of their guests. Occasionally things are different where the guest offers to come, and pay their own way(like a certain guest at Fanime does) but generally... this is how things work.
Don't even talk about JP companies and salaries though, it's obvious you read some blog like kotaku or Sankaku Complex and think you know how the industry works. How animators are paid, why they're paid what they are, etc... you don't know a damned thing.


Only a fan since 2000?  That's not something to brag about.  Unless, of course, you're 11.  Which, considering your behavior towards me in every response to me, makes complete sense.

(My apologies to all the 11 year olds out there.  I know that age is not the best measure of maturity.)

I, too, have connections to many industry personnel.  That's how I'm able to acquire artwork from several animation studios & manga publishing houses. Big deal - Anyone with some Japanese ability and/or a sizeable cash flow can do the same thing.  It's not difficult.

But perhaps you'd like a pat on the back for attending the Yamaga Party?

I've never read the blogs that you mentioned.  But I have spoken with several employees at companies like Toei.  Your average beginning animator(inbetweener) makes about $15K a year, with very long and demanding hours.  Here's a nice little article about it (I hope the LA Times is a credible enough source for you), though, I would not say that key animators are the 'stars' of the animation world... - http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-japan-anime-20100819,0,7946983.story

But please, go ahead and prove me wrong on the issue of 'who earns what'.  Though, hopefully you won't find some article about how someone famous makes $$$ and use that as your proof.  I hope you have something, like the LA Times story, to show.  Otherwise, I'll dismiss what you say.

Though, no promises that I won't do so anyhow.

Your example as to how a convention contracts with industry guests is just a standard business model.  Business, in Japan, works under a different set of rules.  But, seeing how you've had *so* much experience with Japanese, I'm sure you already knew that ^_~

By the way, you were about to tell me about the assumptions that I've made about financial reasons? Please, continue.  I'm looking forward to seeing some hard data as to why MangaGamer can not come to Fanime.

....

I'm sure that you and I can disagree on things all day long, but that's not going to have one iota of influence over the guests chosen for Fanime 2011.  However, I don't think the Fanime organizers need to be reminded that this would be a great opportunity to take advantage of all the disgruntled sellers at AX.  What better way to prove to these sellers that Fanime has a vibrant market than to entice fans to attend their convention with a fabulous guest list?

(not that 2010's guests weren't fabulous enough...)

PyronIkari

#7
Quote from: cutiebunny on August 27, 2010, 09:52:23 PM
Only a fan since 2000?  That's not something to brag about.  Unless, of course, you're 11.  Which, considering your behavior towards me in every response to me, makes complete sense.
... Of Ponyoyo Rock... yes, seeing that he didn't really debut as character designer till then.

QuoteI, too, have connections to many industry personnel.  That's how I'm able to acquire artwork from several animation studios & manga publishing houses. Big deal - Anyone with some Japanese ability and/or a sizeable cash flow can do the same thing.  It's not difficult.

But perhaps you'd like a pat on the back for attending the Yamaga Party?
lolololololololololol. I've actually never attended that. But okay. I've had personal dinners with people amongst friends with a handful of people.

QuoteI've never read the blogs that you mentioned.  But I have spoken with several employees at companies like Toei.  Your average beginning animator(inbetweener) makes about $15K a year, with very long and demanding hours.  Here's a nice little article about it (I hope the LA Times is a credible enough source for you), though, I would not say that key animators are the 'stars' of the animation world... - http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-japan-anime-20100819,0,7946983.story

But please, go ahead and prove me wrong on the issue of 'who earns what'.  Though, hopefully you won't find some article about how someone famous makes $$$ and use that as your proof.  I hope you have something, like the LA Times story, to show.  Otherwise, I'll dismiss what you say.
That LA times article is very misleading. Starting animators and artists make money based on how many frames they do. So yeah, for a lot of them, they make roughly 15k a year, but it's very much based on how talented and how fast they work. Many of these animators are also part time workers/students that are doing it as a side thing while doing something else as well.

QuoteYour example as to how a convention contracts with industry guests is just a standard business model.  Business, in Japan, works under a different set of rules.  But, seeing how you've had *so* much experience with Japanese, I'm sure you already knew that ^_~
Really? My lawyer friend based in Tokyo would disagree with you. Seeing that we've had a conversation about this, while with a major animator at that funny enough.

QuoteBy the way, you were about to tell me about the assumptions that I've made about financial reasons? Please, continue.  I'm looking forward to seeing some hard data as to why MangaGamer can not come to Fanime.
I'm seriously wondering what you are reading seeing that I never said they cannot come, but inviting them as a guest would be rather idiotic instead of just inviting the artist themselves. Why would Fanime invite them as a guest when they're just a game company that badly translates and localizes games.

QuoteI'm sure that you and I can disagree on things all day long, but that's not going to have one iota of influence over the guests chosen for Fanime 2011.  However, I don't think the Fanime organizers need to be reminded that this would be a great opportunity to take advantage of all the disgruntled sellers at AX.  What better way to prove to these sellers that Fanime has a vibrant market than to entice fans to attend their convention with a fabulous guest list?

(not that 2010's guests weren't fabulous enough...)

Not a huge influence but I do talk to people about potential guests and the what not. Which reminds me, I need to do that about a guest as he asked a friend to ask me to talk to Fanime about it.

ewu

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