Feedback on Momoi Live event; please no non-press taping

[genman]

Thanks for setting this up. It seemed to go off without any trouble. I had a great time. The sound was good, etc.

I do have a request. Could you please disallow taking of video at all live events by ordinary attendees?

In particular, several attendees were standing in the front row of the Halko Momoi event, the entire time taking video. They were not press. Most importantly, the content they are taping could not be legally distributed in whole (not considered fair use.) I would consider this a copyright concern. Many fans do not seem to understand this or have a sense this is wrong. One person tried to "ask" Momoi at her panel if he could post and link to his content from Facebook. Of course she can't give permission to do that!

Secondly, it annoys those around them, creating a visual distraction and obstruction. Obviously those recording want to be as close to the stage as possible. A video camera okay policy essentially encourages a "wall" of video taping where people want to interact with the guest cannot.

Most importantly, it goes against the spirit of attending a live event. There are already professionally recorded videos of similar performances for sale. Momoi is special in that the audience is always interacting with the performance through calls and dance. People are of course free to watch quietly. However, it seems disrespectful to the performer to be more concerned with their video than experiencing the event.

In general, Fanime should probably ban any video recording unless the persons recording got permission or a press badge for live events, excepting panels.

[eHash]

Your comments are noted.  If the Dance is involved with GR in 2012 for a possible Momoi performance, the dance will make sure to post the rules for the concert well enough in advance.  For Momoi fans who were surprised by the rules entering (thus the late start as well), Momoi's performance was booked late and the dance provided the stage for her.  Unfortunately, this meant that the dance rules applied to the Momoi concert as well.  I worked hard to get the glowstick rule reversed for Momoi Fans and the rovers were not prepare to search bags.  Print did not provide us with the Momoi signage to help publicize the event physically.  These lessons learned will help make next year better if she graces us with a performance.

[KusanagiShiro]

I agree with the non-press taping part. I'm also glad you managed to get the glowstick rule reversed; glowsticks are an essential part of ANY Momoi concert event. They're sort of like a signature of her live performances.

[PyronIkari]

words

I'm curious as to why you think a lot of the things you said.

Momoi encourages video/streaming/pictures etc. She can give permission to people allowing them to post videos of her in face book, and once again, encourages it.

So I will ask you, who are you to speak on behalf of what Momoi would and would not like, and what she would find best for her fans?

[eHash]

PyronIkari: There are clauses in the performer's agreement with the con.  I was only made aware of a few of them.  The fan-taping piece was mentioned to me, but I didn't feel that I was the one who was supposed to control that (until afterwards it was made clear that I was..-still not sure why).  whether the original poster has a right to say something, i'm simply responding to a formal complaint made to me by her on-site managers.

[PyronIkari]

PyronIkari: There are clauses in the performer's agreement with the con.  I was only made aware of a few of them.  The fan-taping piece was mentioned to me, but I didn't feel that I was the one who was supposed to control that (until afterwards it was made clear that I was..-still not sure why).  whether the original poster has a right to say something, i'm simply responding to a formal complaint made to me by her on-site managers.

E-Hash, I know about it. I'm just curious who this OP is, to speak on behalf of her and her staff. Because the clauses are specific so randomly speaking about things and claiming what the guest wants is... ... ...

[eHash]

LOL, true Mikey... WHO ARE YOU GENMAN?

[tenton]

Yeah, I'm wondering the same thing PyronIkari is wondering. While she can't directly say "hey, it's okay to post concert videos publicly" (it becomes a complicated matter, so it's kind of a wink wink nod nod situation), she does allow for photo taking and video recording (if it wasn't allowed, restrictions would be put into place; there have been times where this has been the case) and encourages it.

BTW, when being asked about permission at her panel, her response was a "lalala, I didn't hear you" kind of answer. The situation can become very complicated, very fast, especially when the subject involves music.

Edit: Though I should mention that I did notice a couple of people up front recording video of the whole thing. The press people were actually mostly snapping photos and being respectful and professional about it*. I understand Genman's sentiment; it's a Momoi performance; it's a special concert with an awesome performer that loves to interact with her fans. It's a little disheartening to see some more interesting in recording the event, rather than participating, but to each his own.

And eHash also has my thanks in working to get the glowstick rule reversed; she loves glowsticks and it wouldn't have been the same without them (especially when she herself wanted a glowstick for LOVE.EXE and asked for one).

*this means trying hard not to get in anyone's way, snapping a few pics, then moving on, etc. As press people covering concerts normally do.

[genman]

I'm curious as to why you think a lot of the things you said.

Momoi encourages video/streaming/pictures etc. She can give permission to people allowing them to post videos of her in face book, and once again, encourages it.

So I will ask you, who are you to speak on behalf of what Momoi would and would not like, and what she would find best for her fans?

Why does it matter who I am? I couldn't care less who you are. You're obviously confused.

Still, for your benefit, my real name is Elias Ross and I have been a fan of Momoi since 2004 when I staffed Anime Expo Tokyo and she performed there.

I'm speaking to the benefit of her audience, including my wife and several others who were annoyed by people taping and blocking the view of the stage.

I do know Momoi doesn't mind casual taping, and I know several in our Momoi group do tape, but they use a tripod set up in the back. These people also have the sense to NOT ask her permission to distribute their video, since they know this is illegal. For this reason, Fanime has sufficient excuse to ban filming.

And as precedent, Fanime has also created plenty of blanket rules to deal with people who are discourteous. My position is that these people are trouble for me and others and have come to this forum to ask for an additional rule, which I believe is quite reasonable.

In my opinion, taping in the middle of the audience is completely unnecessary (stand in the back), misses the purpose of attending a live event (non-participation), and a nuisance. How do you otherwise?

[PyronIkari]

Words

And I think what Momoi doesn't mind is more important. She likes fan vids and people. And you have it backwards. They want to record... and participate at the same time. When you're just standing in the back recording you don't get to participate. When you're recording from up close you get to be a part of it at the same time. But hey, you can have your opinion. Your argument is basically like "I don't like when there's people taller than me in front of me at a concert". I know people may be in the way, but guess what, it happens. They're just trying to enjoy their time how they want, and the performer doesn't mind it (and encourages it) so why would the con do something that goes against their wishes (even if they are silent wishes).

Think of it this way, what if they banned the glowsticks. The con has very legitimate reason to ban them even if they don't want to, it would be in their best interest concerning the venue to do so. But it's not something any of us want, but if you start banning things because of issues like this, it kind of ruins things.

The issue isn't so much about the cameras, but people being idiotic and rude. And this becomes a touchy subject. How much should staff be allowed to cut in just because someone is being rude or dumb with their actions. With situations like this, sadly, the only thing you can do is kind of force things back, which I know isn't what you want to do, nor what you should do.

BTW, you should care who I am, as I'm going to be the one staff member that brings this up to rovers/security/GR. Not the camera issue, but the people with the cameras. Chances are if you banned the cameras, those idiots will still act the same regardless.

Just for reference, I'm Mikey, co-head of the maid cafe and Jun's boyfriend. I've been writing up issues I'm bringing up with the division heads and this will be one of those things.

[eHash]

>Why does it matter who I am? I couldn't care less who you are. You're obviously confused.

I can't speak for Pyron, but I'll speak for myself.  When I signed up to be one of the heads of the dance I had not signed up to manage the stage for Momoi; things just turned out that way.  I am constantly looking for ways to improve my craft or my responsibilities.  Your initial feedback had such an authoritative tone to it I wanted to know at what level I was to take your feedback and consider it good audience feedback or an artist's management complaint.

>Still, for your benefit, my real name is Elias Ross and I have been a fan of Momoi since 2004 when I staffed Anime Expo Tokyo and she performed there.
That was an awesome performance.

>I'm speaking to the benefit of her audience, including my wife and several others who were annoyed by people taping and blocking the view of the stage.

I completely agree with you.  There were so many odd rules and different sets of rules that applied to the room, the dance, and the performer it was a little chaotic trying to get them straight.  I apologize for not ushering those taping to the side before the start of the performance, but I was trying to make sure we got as many of the fans in (through the bag search) before the start.

>I do know Momoi doesn't mind casual taping, and I know several in our Momoi group do tape, but they use a tripod set up in the back. These people also have the sense to NOT ask her permission to distribute their video, since they know this is illegal. For this reason, Fanime has sufficient excuse to ban filming.

Logically, there can be only one official answer.

>And as precedent, Fanime has also created plenty of blanket rules to deal with people who are discourteous. My position is that these people are trouble for me and others and have come to this forum to ask for an additional rule, which I believe is quite reasonable.

This is legitimate feedback and will be conveyed to guest relations.  I will keep this in mind if I am responsible for her stage in the future.

>In my opinion, taping in the middle of the audience is completely unnecessary (stand in the back), misses the purpose of attending a live event (non-participation), and a nuisance. How do you otherwise?

(My personal statement and not that of FanimeCon) I'd actually have to say taping is completely unnecessary.  There are those with better equipment that they could've met to get a copy.

There are lots of things I would have done different, but I would have liked a chance to work more with her before the start to create an even better performance.  For what she had to work with, she did an amazing job.  The stage platforms were uneven, felt unstable, and pretty scary if you were actually up there, but she still worked it!  The best feedback you can give is to try and get her included back in MusicFest!

[tenton]

eHash: That's an interesting read. I will say that I think the layout for her performance this year was much better than last year. While I'm not all that interested in the dance room itself and all I have to reference was her performance this year and last year, the atmosphere/ambiance IMO was better. I think you and your staff did a great job, especially given the kind of prep time you had. If that's what happens when things are done quickly, I can only imagine what would happen if you had more time!

I should disclose that I was one of those with a tripod set up way in the back. I'm way the heck to busy cheering for her to try to film while things are going on (which would have been extremely rude, given where I was during the concert). :P As someone who likes to snap a picture or two on occasion, and like to video record things from time to time, I can understand some of the reason why people do it, but please, not in front. Even press people don't just sit there in front. Actually, some of the press were having a hard time doing their job, because they were trying to cheer, too. ;D

While I'm just a regular attendee, if cameras are going to continue to be allowed (helpful for me, of course), maybe some ground rules (like not standing in front, if you're going to try to video the whole thing) is in order, though it can be a bit messy to enforce if the offenders are dab smack in the middle. I know I saw someone over in front (in front of the audience, even) trying to video the whole thing; that person didn't seem to be participating. I think that's most bothersome type. The ones in the middle videoing and trying to cheer at the same time (which is hard, because it's hard to hold the camera steady) are a different story.

I've re-read genman's original post a few times now and thought about it some more. I definitely see where he's coming from; I was shielded more from the situation than he was, primarily because most of it was happening behind or to the side of me (plus I think I stopped noticing most things not on stage real fast. :P ). I don't think any more comments from me on the subject will be useful as both eHash and PyronIkari are aware of the complaint and know where and how to take it up the chain to help improve things for the future (whether it's Momoi in the dance room or another singer/performer).

[eHash]

i'll make the recommendation that if the press is allowed in with cameras next year to have a raised platform in the back (How's that?)

[M]

So we are really good about asking our Guest of Honor if they are OK with being photographed/taped. Momoi has never (as far as I know of) stated that she doesn't want to be photographed/taped.

@genman: You make a great point about people blocking views while taking pictures/videotaping, but please state that this is your point without bringing up other sidenotes that might have caused your point to get lost.

If someone is in the way during a panel/performance/etc. and is causing a distraction, your best bet is to find a staffer and let them know so that they can take the appropriate action.

@eHash: Is this a specific issue with Press or just members with a camera/camcorder? Most press will want to get the best possible shots and I absolutely allow this unless they are blocking aisleways/exits or others views.

[tenton]

The ones that I knew were press were fine; they got their shots and weren't just standing there trying to record the whole thing. The press people were as respectful as I expect press photographers to be (they moved around, got their shots and generally stayed out of the way), but that's because they knew what press photographers are supposed to do. Actually, there were a few (non-press) people in the front that did snap a few pics (myself included), but it was during MC sections and not during the show. The main problem would have been with some that were just standing there, recording the whole thing, while blocking others and perhaps a bit oblivious to those around them.

I do understand some of genman's other points; really, to stand there and record the event, instead of participating does miss the point of a live show. I read it as him having a few complaints that could be solved by banning non-press from recording the concert proper (people not participating, non-press people not knowing the etiquette of shooting a concert, asking questions that might be better off not asked, etc.). Of course, I might not fully like that idea, because I do take video and snap photos, but I'm also cheering in full force).

[Sheepy]

Hello,

Thank you for your concerns.
Unfortunately this year we did not control the use of cameras or video equipment.

For future years, definitely, we would either ask recorders to move to the back or ban them -we would need to consult with Momoi's crew and decide.

Once again, thank you, and your concerns have been noted.

Thank you for attending her concert!!

[PyronIkari]

Don't get me wrong, I understand the point completely, and very much agree with him on a lot of the points. The factor though still isn't the recording itself though, and it's that of the behavior of a lot of people.

[eHash]

@MPLe - not sure, I was just told that I shouldn't have let in cameras/video other than press.

[kthardin]

I do know Momoi doesn't mind casual taping, and I know several in our Momoi group do tape, but they use a tripod set up in the back. These people also have the sense to NOT ask her permission to distribute their video, since they know this is illegal. For this reason, Fanime has sufficient excuse to ban filming.

I believe this is category error; having defined the problem in an incorrect way so as not to be able to actually solve it.  This is not illegal if the person being filmed gives her permission; as I'm very certain that Momoi has.  Having recorded entire events of her before (as press granted) I've actually been asked to distribute what I have if I have it.  Which I do, and I do without any monetary compensation, for this or any other video I've ever shot at an anime convention or otherwise.

The problem was more correctly defined by those in the front getting in everyone's way to take video.  This is rather annoying, and makes it harder for everyone to have a good time.  I personally do not mind video being shot, as long as it's out of the way.  The raised platform in back is a VERY good idea, for both press and for casual attendees (you'd probably need a long one).

Someone here also made that tired argument about why would anyone want to record something like this; implying this to be an almost immoral practice.  To this individual, I say that some people get involved by jumping up and down in time with glowsticks.  Others sit in the back and soak the ambience.  Still others get up and shoot pictures and video.  I'll thank you kindly not to casually dismiss my way of involvement so long as it does not get in the way of yours and vice versa, and offers no harm to either IP (which is another argument) or inconvenience to (in this case) Momoi (which it does not as per her direction).