Have Hetalia Fans Gone Too Far?

[SukebeStudios]

I came across this picture when one of my friends posted it on Facebook, and I have to say...it disgusts me.



I am a Hetalia fan, I love the show. And I wouldn't mind cosplaying one of the characters if given the chance. But from what I understand, Hetalia fans acting in the way that the ones in the picture is NOT out of the norm. Let me state however, I have not experienced or seen them behave stupidly like this IN PERSON...but the photo shows that at least SOME Hetalia fans DO act this way. I figure I'll ask a wider community than just my Facebook friends. Is behavior like this normal amongst Hetalia fans?

[PyronIkari]

This is the god damned swastika argument all over again.

Role playing, photo opportunities, and taking accurate shots of being in character for the sake of art.

LOLOL are producers going to far making movies? Are parody series like robot chicken and family guy going to far?

It's art and perspective.

Are you taking things too far when every single one of your posts about guest is you basically jerking off to vic mignon?

There's doing things in good and bad taste. Cosplay photos accurately depicting characters is not in bad taste. It may be a little offensive to some, but hey, most things are offensive to some. Now while you are getting your panties in a bunch over a cosplay photo, I'm more offended by things that actually affect and oppress people.

[Ruiichu]

This is the god damned swastika argument all over again.

Role playing, photo opportunities, and taking accurate shots of being in character for the sake of art.

LOLOL are producers going to far making movies? Are parody series like robot chicken and family guy going to far?

It's art and perspective.

Are you taking things too far when every single one of your posts about guest is you basically jerking off to vic mignon?

There's doing things in good and bad taste. Cosplay photos accurately depicting characters is not in bad taste. It may be a little offensive to some, but hey, most things are offensive to some. Now while you are getting your panties in a bunch over a cosplay photo, I'm more offended by things that actually affect and oppress people.

er... ok im sorrry.. i know where your coming from but...  your being a tad overreactive yourself...
I've never watched Hetalia but im pretty sure they dont show things like this for one reason. ITS A FUCKING SENSITIVE TOPIC.
I dont think its ever ok to be doing such a thing.. and honestly i dont know where their brains were when they took this picture, cause its obvious they would be hated on if they did so.(Plus this picture is obviously BAD taste) You say your offended by things that effect people but did you ever think that maybe something like this DOES effect the emotions of people? Its not just about YOUR perspective. kaythanks.

[PyronIkari]

er... ok im sorrry.. i know where your coming from but...  your being a tad overreactive yourself...
I've never watched Hetalia but im pretty sure they dont show things like this for one reason. ITS A FUCKING SENSITIVE TOPIC.
I dont think its ever ok to be doing such a thing.. and honestly i dont know where their brains were when they took this picture, cause its obvious they would be hated on if they did so.(Plus this picture is obviously BAD taste) You say your offended by things that effect people but did you ever think that maybe something like this DOES effect the emotions of people? Its not just about YOUR perspective. kaythanks.

Replying to a topic month old topic basically to say "WELL I FIND IT OFFENSIVE!" Okay... that's fine. You find it offensive. Does that make the image itself wrong? No, it's a photographic image displaying characters being characters. As I said, it's the swastika argument over again. Whether or not you find it offensive does not make the image in question wrong nor too far. Is it done in bad taste? Perhaps, but that's based on the person viewing the image. Frankly, I personally don't care about the image one way or another. If I wanted to find something offensive, I can find much more offending images, like people blowing up abortion clinics, or mobs beating up women that come out of an abortion clinic. I could look at the people damning Japan for winning the women's soccer cup. I could view all the people damning the nation to hell and praising god for leveling a good part of their country. So this image of cosplayers... portraying characters from a cartoon how they would be... is hardly worth giving a damn about.

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

(-_-)
People need to stop being so sensitive and willing to be offended.
It is so easy to simply ignore these things, its almost as if people want to be offended...

[OtakuMcGreevy]

I realize that the cosplayer is "staying in character", but I think this is a bit much :/

[Admiral Donuts]

What characters are those, anyways?

[heeroyuy135]

I believe that's Germany (left) and Prussia (right).

[Dany]

I realize that the cosplayer is "staying in character", but I think this is a bit much :/

If you watch the series, specific references to anything related to Nazi stuff are severely subdued, if not omitted entirely. The comment in the first episode regarding raising hands to ask questions and no making fun of certain hand gestures from Germany is probably the closest in my memory to any acknowledgement of something specifically Nazi related, and I don't believe I saw anyone actually USE the gesture, not even Germany himself. I haven't gone through any manga or supplemental material, and I could have missed a part (by all means, add to my list if you know something), but the above image does not depict something that I've seen the characters actually -doing-.

With that in mind, my humble opinion is that staying "in character" for Hetalia means leaving out the elements that could be deemed too offensive/uncomfortable and focusing more on the historical-related humor and cultural stereotype pokings.  That is where some of the true charm of Hetalia lies.

If you're going to go beyond that, you have to realize a few things that will happen.

-People will get offended, uncomfortable, and will question your understanding of the meanings of what you are doing.
-You will not be in theme to the series because these subjects are not touched so blatantly by the characters or the storyline.
-You become the Hetalia fan that many Hetalia fans want to back away slowly from.

You're free to express yourself, surely. But one should ask themselves, in this situation, if it is the BEST way to express yourself.

[PyronIkari]

And one should say, how different are you being in your anti-racism... compared to actual racism?

People seem to not realize. Look, I'm against racism and prejudice as a whole. But when you're trying to make things out to be racist, when they're clearly not, your anti-racism is basically the same as racism. You're persecuting people for something that isn't hatred. Your persecution is no different than the act you're fighting against. You're still judging and demeaning someone, just because you feel the overall goal is "for the good" in the end you're still persecuting someone for something they aren't doing.

Of course you can say it's in bad taste, it's bad judgment and they shouldn't do that. But is it really? The photo itself can be considered offensive out of context. But that's when human rationality and judgment *should* kick in. If you want to be offended, hey, I'm not stopping you. But that picture is not offensive and in many way shapes and forms should be seen as artistic. Art is offensive guys. Look at the art of the past. Parodies, satire, replication. So like, are we going to call people re-inacting the civil war, or anyone that ever plays Hitler in a play or movie offensive and racist too? Think about context or reasoning guys. It was a photo representing two characters.

This just in guys, let's be offended at every of representation of Hitler, Stalin, Mussoulini, and Lincoln, there are. Because you know, they did bad things, and anyone showing these mentalities are offensive.

Also, let's never allow cosplayers to cosplay a "bad guy" to do anything the bad guy has ever done. Because those are offensive too. You know what's also offensive, DragonBallZ... it had Hitler in it.

[Dany]

Of course you can say it's in bad taste, it's bad judgment and they shouldn't do that. But is it really? The photo itself can be considered offensive out of context. But that's when human rationality and judgment *should* kick in. If you want to be offended, hey, I'm not stopping you. But that picture is not offensive and in many way shapes and forms should be seen as artistic. Art is offensive guys. Look at the art of the past. Parodies, satire, replication. So like, are we going to call people re-inacting the civil war, or anyone that ever plays Hitler in a play or movie offensive and racist too? Think about context or reasoning guys. It was a photo representing two characters.

I guess that's the next thing to ask: Is this intended to be cosplay for the sake of an accurate portrayal of the characters, or cosplay for the sake of shocking art? Or even both, given the characters involved? What did the people in the photo -want- from us when they had the photo done?

There's a lot we don't know, and a lot that people will inevitably infer meanings because that is what people do when there's no bigger picture of context to bring people to the -intended- meaning, especially if it pops up on ACP or Cosplay.com. In there, you get people who are not looking for extended artistic commentary in their cosplay shots, and instead will react with what is in their gut..which means somebody is gonna get offended.

While I am sure there are plenty of artistic types in the hobby, the "typical" meaning of cosplay is to present the characters as the source material indicates. Based on what I know of the series, I think it's safe to say there are those that would find this image an inaccurate portrayal of the characters because the meatier, more sensitive topics are not faced full-force in Hetalia as the characters are here.  

I am not against portraying offensive themes and utilizing things that could be offensive in an artistic fashion. I do believe, however, that one should know their audience enough to be savvy about where and when to present certain types of material so that the result is less explosive. I think that is where the true Hetalia fandom issue lies; unfortunately, the combination of potentially offensive topics that can appear, plus people who just don't think about that stuff, equals more than a few instances of people getting offended en masse.

[PyronIkari]

And who says, it has anything to do with the audience. Who says it's not for them as cosplayers, to take a photo... for themselves, that they want to share. Not all art is *MEANT* for the masses, and I could easily turn this into a "why you cosplay" discussion and talk badly about the large majority of cosplayers. I could talk about how "bad cosplay" is more offensive than this, or how "cosplaying for attention" or even "cosplaying a character you know nothing about" is more offensive than this, but I'm not turning leaf to that argument (so PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THAT PART, rather please just get why I made the comparison).

Cosplay is cosplay for the sake of cosplay to each individual and person. While I am personally offended to some extent as to why people do a lot of things, they are in their every right to do so. Everything anyone does will be found offensive by somebody. It's an understanding of why it's offensive, why you are getting offended, and why should you care that matters. Hell, the representation of some of the characters in Hetalia as designed, can be incredibly offensive to a lot of people. Bad stereotypes ontop of inaccurate portrayals as representitives of a nation can be found offensive. But you know what? Why should that bother me. It's a portrayal as seen by an artist. Inaccurate, accurate, it doesn't matter. It was created for their purpose and many people will enjoy it. I will interject my opinion, but in no way should it truly affect anyone. I will speak mostly objectively and very matter of factly to allow people to decide how they want to feel.

Again, if this image offends you, then it offends you. There's no two ways about it. But what I want you to do is really think about why it's offensive to you, and why you feel you should make an issue out of it at all. In return, think about what you do, and why other people may find your actions, thoughts, and portrayals offensive (because people do). Is this going to stop you from being you? From doing the things you want to do, and acting upon the life that you see? Artistic and creative thoughts are displayed in the smallest of actions. People willl find them offensive. If you truly don't want to offend people, you won't do anything at all. Some things are worth making a hoopla about, when they are truly offensive and can affect other people. Something like this is merely a portrayal of someones thoughts and opinions of a character. Of the past and a portrayal of how things were. This is not the opinion of the cosplayer themselves. This is not a cosplayer, attacking and trying to surpress other people.

So see it how you want and why you want. But at least attempt to understand what it is before you pass it off as something bad.

[Dany]

Again, if this image offends you, then it offends you. There's no two ways about it. But what I want you to do is really think about why it's offensive to you, and why you feel you should make an issue out of it at all. In return, think about what you do, and why other people may find your actions, thoughts, and portrayals offensive (because people do). Is this going to stop you from being you? From doing the things you want to do, and acting upon the life that you see? Artistic and creative thoughts are displayed in the smallest of actions. People willl find them offensive. If you truly don't want to offend people, you won't do anything at all. Some things are worth making a hoopla about, when they are truly offensive and can affect other people. Something like this is merely a portrayal of someones thoughts and opinions of a character. Of the past and a portrayal of how things were. This is not the opinion of the cosplayer themselves. This is not a cosplayer, attacking and trying to surpress other people.

So see it how you want and why you want. But at least attempt to understand what it is before you pass it off as something bad.

Oh trust me, I thought about it a lot. And after considerable thought, my conclusion is that I find the content something that can be too easily misconstrued in the wrong hands, and not something that I would consider a wise choice for my own personal cosplay choices. I subscribe to the idea of "just because you -can-, doesn't mean you -should-".

But I won't tell THEM what to do. If they ask my opinion, I will express it, but what they do with my opinion, and anyone else's, is up to them to decide. If there is a wider reason for these photos, I'm curious to see what it is, believe it or not. I doubt it will change my opinion, but I'll at least be able to say I'm seeing the other argument.

But back to the topic of the thread: is Hetalia fandom going too far in some things? In this instance, we could debate all day, and we haven't even touched the subject of flag etiquette.

[MidnightPrincess94]

some people act like this some dn't but the thing to remember is, is tht ya it is offensive, but again there are way worse things out there in the world today.such as tv, many shows do stereotypes, or racist jokes for the sake of comedy or other reasons. yes it is offensive, but there r worse out there in the world. now im not sayin sit there and take it but i am sayin to just deal with it how you can.and others will worry how they please. its how the world is, its changed alot. sadly though in a not so good way...

[Jerry]

hey SukebeStudios, ---instead of ranting about it to us, why not calmly ask the poster or the people who put this photo up and just ask them what they were trying to convey in this photo thats causing you to feel upset?

ranting about making changes doesnt really do anything...

education, communication and understanding everyone viewpoints might help things  get moving forward.
Otherwise, its just a picture...

its not like Marines urinating on ... dead bodies...
but thats a whole different story...

[CommandantCat]

I personally have no idea how canon the photo is, seeing as I don't enjoy Hetalia. And I haven't studied Prussia's envolvment closely enough to even know how they took part of the holocaust. But hell, if they want to have a photo of their Germany shooting the Star of David as an anti-semetic pro-Nazi photo by all means do it. It is cosplay.

Of course, I find it in bad taste, and would never choose to do so myself because personally I respect history such as the Holocaust, and I and would not take it so lightly for a simple cosplay shot. But that is just me.

Everyone can be offended by something. God I can't count all of the homosexual cross-play shots I have done, male to male or female to female, and I have gotten flamed for it once or twice.

I consider some of the other posts TL;DR, or just flaming between opinions ... but just refrencing the first post, /personally/ I would not do this... and having a good deal of German heritage some of which took part in the Holocaust (and even though jokes arealways cracked...) I can see the sensitivity of the anti-semetic picutre. I wouldn't do it. But they have the right and it is not wrong in any way, cosplay man, just cosplay.

[heeroyuy135]

Well for the most part, the Hetalia fans have moved on to the Homestuck bandwagon. The problem with that is most of these Hetalia-turned-Homestuck fans came in after the 5th book/chapter/whatever, when the trolls were introduced into the Homestuck storyline without knowing about the previous chapters.

[CommandantCat]

when the trolls were introduced into the Homestuck storyline without knowing about the previous chapters.

I. Know.

[MidnightPrincess94]

Well for the most part, the Hetalia fans have moved on to the Homestuck bandwagon. The problem with that is most of these Hetalia-turned-Homestuck fans came in after the 5th book/chapter/whatever, when the trolls were introduced into the Homestuck storyline without knowing about the previous chapters.

Well to be honest, thats not entirely true since there seems to be a how you say, arguement? between the two fans. so idk if sayin all the hetalia fans have moved onto the Homestuck bandwagon is right since they disagree alot on many respectable aspects, plus not many kno wat homestuck is. Personally im for both cuz homestuck is a good story, and i started reading it since it seemed to be quite popular, and decided to give it a chance. but i didn't kno bout the trolls till later of course, after reading the beginning chapters.