Artist Alley Facebook Updated and Question on Display Spacing

[lilindar]

From an attendee's viewpoint, display backs can be kind of nice if you're looking for a specific artist. c: Or at least, having a name or logo or a single work sample identifying what artist is on the other side of the giant display you can only see the back of.

I think the ideal situation would be to have every artist in the entire hall with a nice looking front and back display.

[Cole]

Considering it's been done for YEARS (10+ at least) and only recently has it become an issue; doesn't anyone find it odd that it was never an issue before the last year or so? I also find it strange that it's not the veteran artists (5+ years) complaining about it, but the newer ones to the AA that are.  If I'm mistaken in that statement someone please let me know.

[daniellesylvan]

Considering it's been done for YEARS (10+ at least) and only recently has it become an issue; doesn't anyone find it odd that it was never an issue before the last year or so? I also find it strange that it's not the veteran artists (5+ years) complaining about it, but the newer ones to the AA that are.  If I'm mistaken in that statement someone please let me know.

I absolutely agree with this! I've been doing Artist Alleys since I was 14 (I'm nearly 19 now, so lets say 5 years) and I've never heard a single complaint about myself or another artist doing it! In fact, so many artists do it, it seems that it's the minority who don't. In my opinion, it's just a smart way to advertise within your own table space.

And to the person who posted above about it being easier for attendees to find an artist- also very true! I've had so many attendees tell me they saw my display from across the room because it's double-sided.

[Laggy]

Considering it's been done for YEARS (10+ at least) and only recently has it become an issue; doesn't anyone find it odd that it was never an issue before the last year or so? I also find it strange that it's not the veteran artists (5+ years) complaining about it, but the newer ones to the AA that are.  If I'm mistaken in that statement someone please let me know.

Yes, you are mistaken. I'm new to Artist Alley, but a lot of the people complaining aren't. I believe Wiccat just said they'd been doing it since 2001. Again. It's not a skill level issue. It's not an issue about how long the artist has been at it. Everyone voicing their opinion on this matter are all very different, there is no particular category of people who have a problem with this. You may not have run into the issue before now yourself, but obviously there are people who don't like it.

[Wiccat]

Also, to the other poster who said that people would stop in front of their table to stare at another artists display (I would quote it but I don't know how to quote twice in one post sorry!) I think that's more rude of the attendees than the artist. They should have some common courtesy not to do so.

And artists should have the common courtesy not to put up advertising in a place that would prompt shoppers to stop and acknowledge that advertisement.  Because people will stop and look, it's human nature.  Something attracts our attention, such as good artwork we might desire to own, and we will stop to look at it.  Those who glance at it and continue walking are likely not going to buy the print.  So what is the point of rear facing displays if you think it's common courtesy for people to act like they don't want your art?  Just don't put it up, then.

No..? If someone sees the print from the opposite side and likes it, they would walk over to my table to get a closer look and/or purchase it. What I'm saying is, standing in front of the opposite artist's table to look at the display behind theirs is 1) rude and 2) doesn't make sense. They might as well go around to the actual table to get a look.
I don't have a double-sided display in order to have people stand there and stare at the opposite side. I have it so when they're on the other side they might see it and be like "hey that print looks cool! Let me go check out that table"
It's more to catch their attention than anything else. So no, I don't put up double-sided prints for them to "see it and walk away" that doesn't make any sense.

Regardless of what you say makes sense, I have actually had it happen to me.  And it wasn't just a handful of people, that I can handle, but a LOT of people did that to me, hence why I was so frustrated.

And what I had forgotten to mention in my original post - I don't go to just artist alley, I attend professional trade shows as well for my business (which isn't art) and the norm for every trade show I've participated in is when you buy the table space, you also buy the air space around it.  You are only allowed to show your displays inward.  Granted, I know artist alleys are far from professional trade shows.  However, it IS common practice and it IS common courtesy in the professional business world.  Backwards facing displays are advertising in your neighbors' air space, hence encroaching on another artist's space and should not be allowed.

You may feel free to disagree and continue to defend your position, but I do consider it very rude and I hope the art alley staff firmly continues to enforce the rules against backwards facing displays.

[daniellesylvan]

Also, to the other poster who said that people would stop in front of their table to stare at another artists display (I would quote it but I don't know how to quote twice in one post sorry!) I think that's more rude of the attendees than the artist. They should have some common courtesy not to do so.

And artists should have the common courtesy not to put up advertising in a place that would prompt shoppers to stop and acknowledge that advertisement.  Because people will stop and look, it's human nature.  Something attracts our attention, such as good artwork we might desire to own, and we will stop to look at it.  Those who glance at it and continue walking are likely not going to buy the print.  So what is the point of rear facing displays if you think it's common courtesy for people to act like they don't want your art?  Just don't put it up, then.

No..? If someone sees the print from the opposite side and likes it, they would walk over to my table to get a closer look and/or purchase it. What I'm saying is, standing in front of the opposite artist's table to look at the display behind theirs is 1) rude and 2) doesn't make sense. They might as well go around to the actual table to get a look.
I don't have a double-sided display in order to have people stand there and stare at the opposite side. I have it so when they're on the other side they might see it and be like "hey that print looks cool! Let me go check out that table"
It's more to catch their attention than anything else. So no, I don't put up double-sided prints for them to "see it and walk away" that doesn't make any sense.

Regardless of what you say makes sense, I have actually had it happen to me.  And it wasn't just a handful of people, that I can handle, but a LOT of people did that to me, hence why I was so frustrated.

And what I had forgotten to mention in my original post - I don't go to just artist alley, I attend professional trade shows as well for my business (which isn't art) and the norm for every trade show I've participated in is when you buy the table space, you also buy the air space around it.  You are only allowed to show your displays inward.  Granted, I know artist alleys are far from professional trade shows.  However, it IS common practice and it IS common courtesy in the professional business world.  Backwards facing displays are advertising in your neighbors' air space, hence encroaching on another artist's space and should not be allowed.

You may feel free to disagree and continue to defend your position, but I do consider it very rude and I hope the art alley staff firmly continues to enforce the rules against backwards facing displays.

I know it's different in every Artist Alley, but many I have been in, the rules will say something along the lines of "your table space includes your table plus 3 feet of space behind your table. You can put anything within this space that adheres to the other rules" etc.
Which is why I believe that as long as my art is hanging ON my display INSIDE that allotted space, it doesn't matter if it's forwards, backwards, upside down, whichever. I can do whatever I want with it within the space I paid for.
I apologize if that comes off as rude but it just seems logical, especially if the rules say so.

As for people blocking your table a LOT, like I said earlier, sounds more rude of the attendees for not having manners, as opposed to anyone else.

[lilindar]

I think it would be easier and fairer for the people who don't like back displays to build their own big front display that hides the display behind them. Then put a back on your own big display, if you like. c:

That way, no one is being encroached upon to do one thing or the other. It's entirely up to you to have a back display, not have a back display, build your own big eye catching display that shows off your work and hides what's behind you, not bother with a big display if you don't want, bring a curtain to hang behind you .... there are a bunch of options.

If your work is good, it is *going* to sell. c: If people cluster in front of your table taking photos, looking at the tables to either side, looking at the table behind you, tell them not (I have had to do this frequently. ^^)

I'd like to see the power entirely in the artist's hands what they do with their space and how they combat back displays. When the pressure has been on me to build a strong display or die trying, I think solving the problem at hand has made me a more ingenious merchant in addition to making my sales rise as I learn to display my work in more eye catching ways.

[Cole]

Okay so one senior artist and a handful of newbies vs the other 80-90% of AA that all do their displays double-sided......

One thing I will say:

Artist Alley was first created as a means for amateur - semi-professional artists to display their work and potentially sell some of it; but mostly to get their name out in order to be discovered by a company or studio. How they display their work for others never mattered in the past and if you wanted to you had the right to do a double-sided display just like anyone else did.

You CHOSE to not use that right and rather than leave it at that decided that no one else should be allowed to either since you weren't doing it.  A small group of like-minded individuals agreed with you and you took the issue to the coordinator making it seem bigger than it really was.  Since none of the artists knew what was going on the idea passed their judgement.  Now that the other artists know they are disturbed by it and that upsets you that your logic is not being accepted by the majority.

Would you prefer that everyone put one of those back displays behind them and their table/chairs just to make up for the fact that they can't display it on their table display anymore?  Do you realize how much of a fire hazard those displays are? Yet because some artists need them they are allowed with minimal complaint since only a small amount use them. Or are you going to ask Fanime to ban those next to inconvenience those artists that are trying hard to find away around the new rule you had Fanime create for your own benefit because you either don't want a double-sided display, don't have enough work to have one, or are to lazy to take the extra 20 minutes to make one.

[Wiccat]

Considering it's been done for YEARS (10+ at least) and only recently has it become an issue; doesn't anyone find it odd that it was never an issue before the last year or so? I also find it strange that it's not the veteran artists (5+ years) complaining about it, but the newer ones to the AA that are.  If I'm mistaken in that statement someone please let me know.

Actually, this is incorrect.  Not even structural displays have been the norm for Fanime artist alley until recently, so how could backwards facing displays have been in place for over ten years?  Some friends of mine were actually some of the first artists to start doing structural displays and it seemed to have exploded from there.  That was pretty recent.

http://baau.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1428&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

Here are pictures from Fanime artist alley 2007, and you barely see any structural displays.

I know it's different in every Artist Alley, but many I have been in, the rules will say something along the lines of "your table space includes your table plus 3 feet of space behind your table. You can put anything within this space that adheres to the other rules" etc.
Which is why I believe that as long as my art is hanging ON my display INSIDE that allotted space, it doesn't matter if it's forwards, backwards, upside down, whichever. I can do whatever I want with it within the space I paid for.
I apologize if that comes off as rude but it just seems logical, especially if the rules say so.

As for people blocking your table a LOT, like I said earlier, sounds more rude of the attendees for not having manners, as opposed to anyone else.

Yes, you are coming off as very rude and selfish.  At the risk of sounding old, I'm very disappointed with people these days, they have no sense of being considerate to other people, all they care about is furthering their own gains by doing rude things and calling it clever.  What of people taking up-close photos of your artwork instead of just purchasing a print?  They're being clever by getting the art without spending the money and it (used to be) not against the rules.  Just because you are being picky about the wording in the rules does not mean you are being clever.  It's still rude.  But whatever, the art alley staff decided last year that backward facing displays are against the rules.

[daniellesylvan]

If your work is good, it is *going* to sell. c: If people cluster in front of your table taking photos, looking at the tables to either side, looking at the table behind you, tell them not (I have had to do this frequently. ^^)

I agree with this so much as well c:

Though I've never had someone block my table to look at the artist behind me, I've had many people block my table to look at the artist next to me! Usually they aren't there for too long so I just let them be. But like you said, if your art is good it will sell! When I was 14 and just starting out in Alleys, my art wasn't very good. At one con, I had an absolutely fantastic artist next to me, and her booth was constantly crowded with fans. I even had many people mistake her table for mine and be like "I love your work, can I have that one?!" only for me to awkwardly tell them it wasn't mine.

But I'm not going to be mad at the artist for the ignorance or confusion of attendees. It's not her fault she was a great artist, in fact, I applaud her for her success in the Alley. In my opinion, what happened in that situation is no different than what happens with double-sided displays as well. It's bound to happen and it's not really the artists fault for simply making good use of their display in the space they paid for.

[Cole]

I wouldn't call anything over 5 years as recent...and AX had them going since 2006 when I first attended and probably before that. Recent would be in the last 1-3 years tops.

I do not see any reason why artists can't post on the backside of their own table display.  Just put up your own display the same way.  It's not as big of a deal as you have made it out to be and there were many complaints over the new rule last year.

If you don't want to deal with it, why not ask for a table with the wall behind it? Then you won't have to worry about it.

[Laggy]

Okay so one senior artist and a handful of newbies vs the other 80-90% of AA that all do their displays double-sided......

Wow. So anyone who's new to this is inferior, and anyone who thinks a double sided display is rude is just unskilled and jealous, is that right?

I may not agree with the double sided banner issue, but at least the other people who do agree with it aren't being disrespectful and rude about it. And I've been going to Fanime for seven years as an attendee, and saying that 80-90% of Artist Alley have double sided displays is simply not true.

[Cole]

I wasn't talking about that, I was referring to the amount of people pro single sided displays versus those who want double-sided displays.  That comment had nothing to do with skill at all. The percentage was a guesstimate.

I may have been a little bit agitated while making that comment since the post before that was a bit more self-centered towards their own personal issues vs AA issues overall.

The point is, the majority of the artists rely on those double-sided displays.

[Laggy]

I wasn't talking about that, I was referring to the amount of people pro single sided displays versus those who want double-sided displays.  That comment had nothing to do with skill at all. The percentage was a guesstimate.

I was referring to your previous comment about how you thought that the people complaining were of a lower skill level and just jealous.

And the percentage is way off in the single sided vs double sided display thing too. If so little people had a problem with it, Fanime wouldn't be taking action against it and this thread wouldn't exist.

[Cole]

Anyone who's worked in customer service knows that it only takes a small handful of complaints for something to need to be done; even if the majority weren't affected by it or if it impacts them separately.

The skill level comment was an assumption since I didn't recognize any of the artists that were complaining about the double-sided displays.  Also most of the arguments they gave were that the attendees were getting in the way of their table and that it was hurting their sales; but if that's the case shouldn't they do their best to try to draw attention towards their work and away from the display behind them and try to make a sale themselves?  In that situation it's a 50:50 chance they will either make a sale or the attendee will become uninterested and walk away to go to the other table.  Any attention is good attention; how you use it to benefit yourself is up to you.

[Laggy]

That's a very true and excellent point, but it's not a handful of complaints. This is a direct quote from Marc Dell'Erba, one of the Artist Alley staff, the guy who made this thread, and the guy who runs the Artist Alley facebook page:

"The first sentence in point #9 is (literally) the point. It shouldn't be annoying this year as artists here by a 2-1 margin believe a neighbor's works facing into their space is an infingement of that space."

So it's not 'one veteran and a handful of noobies.' A lot of people have an issue with this.

[KikaiSaigono]

I have to say that I am *not* a "newbie". I've been selling at 5-12 cons a year for six years. And this is very much not a new issue. I had this same discussion on the Anime Weekend Atlanta forums two years ago.

Also, I use a PCV pipe display, as do most of my artist friends I generally like to sit by and sell with, and they do not do this.

Generalizations like "newbs only complain about this" and "90% of people with PVC pipe displays do this" are not going to help your cause , because it is just untrue. Perhaps you should travel to more cons and see for yourself that not very many seasoned con artists do this.

I'm also not going to just put up a display that covers the one behind me if they do double-sided. This causes problems. If the artist behind me wants to display pictures on that side they are going to do it, and if I cover it up it's starting drama. However, if I ask them to take it down, or ask the director to ask them for me because it very much bothers me,  I would rather do that. Can you see how constantly covering up each other's display can start a dispute, or worse, a fight?

[Cole]

I have been to conventions all over CA and Sakura-Con 1 time.  Unfortunately working full time limits me from traveling further.

I can say I have been to the following and all of them had a majority of artists that did double-sided displays with no complaints from other artists (to my knowledge):

Anime LA, SacAnime, SacCon, AOD, JTAF, Ani-Jam, Pacific Media Expo, Anime Expo, Sakura-Con

[KikaiSaigono]

I have been to conventions all over CA and Sakura-Con 1 time.  Unfortunately working full time limits me from traveling further.

I can say I have been to the following and all of them had a majority of artists that did double-sided displays with no complaints from other artists (to my knowledge):

Anime LA, SacAnime, SacCon, AOD, JTAF, Ani-Jam, Pacific Media Expo, Anime Expo, Sakura-Con

I'm just going to go ahead and say that it must be a west coast thing, because on the eastern seaboard you don't see any of that.



...Obviously I'm joking, I'm not going to judge a region as a whole :P But really, having been to cons in all regions of the US and some Canadian ones, this is not generally a well accepted thing. You have say 200-300 tables in the AA and maybe 10 or 20 people have double sided displays. It's not a majority. I mean, whether or not Fanime allows double sided displays or not, my final word on the issue is that if you sit behind me and you do it I will ask for you to take it down. I will also ask an administrator if that fails.

To the director and staff -- would you be willing to ask artists to take back displays down at the request of the artist sitting behind them if they do not like it?

[daniellesylvan]

I have been to conventions all over CA and Sakura-Con 1 time.  Unfortunately working full time limits me from traveling further.

I can say I have been to the following and all of them had a majority of artists that did double-sided displays with no complaints from other artists (to my knowledge):

Anime LA, SacAnime, SacCon, AOD, JTAF, Ani-Jam, Pacific Media Expo, Anime Expo, Sakura-Con

I'm just going to go ahead and say that it must be a west coast thing, because on the eastern seaboard you don't see any of that.



...Obviously I'm joking, I'm not going to judge a region as a whole :P But really, having been to cons in all regions of the US and some Canadian ones, this is not generally a well accepted thing. You have say 200-300 tables in the AA and maybe 10 or 20 people have double sided displays. It's not a majority. I mean, whether or not Fanime allows double sided displays or not, my final word on the issue is that if you sit behind me and you do it I will ask for you to take it down. I will also ask an administrator if that fails.

To the director and staff -- would you be willing to ask artists to take back displays down at the request of the artist sitting behind them if they do not like it?

Lol, I was going to say maybe it's an East Coast thing, all of the cons I have been to are in the Mid to North East (along with Nan Desu Kan in CO) and I've always seen a majority of double-sided displays. I just did Neko Con a couple of months ago, my most recent one, and there were about 30 artists with PVC display and about 20-25 of them had double-sided displays. Of course this is an estimate, not exact numbers, but I certainly did notice a majority of double-sided displays. Some artists in the same block as me even told me it was a clever idea and that they would be doing it at their next con!