Certain fanart now banned in the artist alley?

[chibimonster]

@ chibimonster: No, I'm not saying it makes you any less creative. Good artists can still make good fanart regardless if they like the series or not. It's hard for me to say what I mean, but I do feel a little awkward when I try to talk to an artist about their piece or the series and they just stare back at me with a blank face. Then I'm thinking, "Well, why did you make this it you don't know anything about it?" That's not to say that you don't. That's just my opnion. I don't have much respect for an artist who doesn't know anything about the piece that he or she is making and is merely doing so because it is "popular." Some artists you can tell right off that they did so if all their pieces look the same with different characters in the same pose with little alteration. XD

I have a bit of an issue with that simply because I think art should tell a story. It can be as simple as showing a character experiencing a certain emotion or as complex as a love triangle. It just has to be something other than a generic happy face and a recycled pose.

Actually, how do these artists draw fanart of characters they don't know at all? Go to google images? I don't mean to criticize, but that's kinda strange. I can understand having to google reference pics if someone's doing a commission, but i someone's going to draw fanart, they should have some time to familiarize themselves with the character's costume and personality. Out-of-character fanart isn't a very good thing. I would never attempt to draw anyone with a complex costume, such as Miku, if I wasn't completely familiar with the way it moved/looked.

[LiL Moon]

I have a bit of an issue with that simply because I think art should tell a story. It can be as simple as showing a character experiencing a certain emotion or as complex as a love triangle. It just has to be something other than a generic happy face and a recycled pose.

Actually, how do these artists draw fanart of characters they don't know at all? Go to google images? I don't mean to criticize, but that's kinda strange. I can understand having to google reference pics if someone's doing a commission, but i someone's going to draw fanart, they should have some time to familiarize themselves with the character's costume and personality. Out-of-character fanart isn't a very good thing. I would never attempt to draw anyone with a complex costume, such as Miku, if I wasn't completely familiar with the way it moved/looked.

I think it depends on the person, but I don't care too much if the art tells a story or not. I also like art that just focuses on the character.

It's not that hard for people to make fanart of a character and know little about it. I mean, you could just google what popular now, look up a few reference pics, some screencaps and that's all. You really don't need to read up on their personality or the story background if you don't want to. That's enough to give you something like a basic fan commission. And in no way am I insulting fan commissions. I think those artists are nice to do something like that on the spot. Out-of-character fanart reminds me of parodies. I think those are pretty funny and creative.

[chibimonster]

Parodies are one thing (and I think they're hilarious, too), but it's another if someone just randomly draws Sasuke looking all smiley and happy. If I were to buy a fanart of Sasuke, I'd want one of him looking all angry, like how he is in the story. This is mainly just my opinion; I'm sure there are a bunch of people who would enjoy seeing a drawing of him smiling: "Oh look... it's Sasuke... and he's actually smiling!"

And I like commissions. They're fun to do. :) Except when someone gives me a reference picture and the costume is the most complicated thing ever. Then I think, "Wait... I have to draw THIS??" I guess I'm just paranoid about making mistakes, but having to draw something really elaborate on the spot is scary.

[ttyls]

Hm...

I'm reading quite a few arguments in favor of selling fanart due to the income and how much of a hassle it is to create original work.
While I'm all for selling fanart at a place meant for recognizing such subjects...
...that little detail really bothers me.

If y'all would like your arguments to even be taken into consideration, perhaps you should briefly examine why you're pushing the matter and wonder it's backed by completely selfish/greedy motivation as opposed to professional reasoning.

Just layin' that out there.

Others have already mentioned the whole making fans happy thing, and I have to agree that selling fanart really contributes to the atmosphere of the con -- both for fans looking for their favorite characters, and for the artist too. We get to express our fandom of characters too, and it's a great way to bring fans of the same characters together.

The hassle associated with original art applies to artists who like to draw fanart and can't draw original characters/worlds as well. I think what a lot of people are saying is with a percentage rule, you'd be punishing them and limiting both what they can sell and how much fun they'll get out of the whole experience. While I'm sure the decreased income associated with original art factors into all of this, there are definitely other non-monetary reasons for opposing a percentage rule.

Honestly, some of us aren't even out to make any profit, even though we sell fanart. Especially for first-timers like me, I'd be absolutely delighted to just break even with all my costs, much less actually earn anything from this endeavor.

For the record, I sell both original and fan art. :3

Actually, how do these artists draw fanart of characters they don't know at all? Go to google images? I don't mean to criticize, but that's kinda strange. I can understand having to google reference pics if someone's doing a commission, but i someone's going to draw fanart, they should have some time to familiarize themselves with the character's costume and personality. Out-of-character fanart isn't a very good thing. I would never attempt to draw anyone with a complex costume, such as Miku, if I wasn't completely familiar with the way it moved/looked.

What I do when I get a request of someone I don't know (this includes my own art and commissions) is read up on the character, usually their wiki, haha. I'll do some research on their personality, what they do in the plot, and how they're portrayed in existing images (both to make sure my idea fits and that my pose hasn't been taken yet). If I know someone who knows the series, I'll ask them about the character and run my ideas past him or her to make sure it's not OOC. I use Google images to double check details XD

[LiL Moon]

Parodies are one thing (and I think they're hilarious, too), but it's another if someone just randomly draws Sasuke looking all smiley and happy. If I were to buy a fanart of Sasuke, I'd want one of him looking all angry, like how he is in the story. This is mainly just my opinion; I'm sure there are a bunch of people who would enjoy seeing a drawing of him smiling: "Oh look... it's Sasuke... and he's actually smiling!"

And I like commissions. They're fun to do. :) Except when someone gives me a reference picture and the costume is the most complicated thing ever. Then I think, "Wait... I have to draw THIS??" I guess I'm just paranoid about making mistakes, but having to draw something really elaborate on the spot is scary.

Depends on the Sasuke. >w> I'm a Sasuke fan.

I've always wondered that too. I think I would be super nervous, especially if the commissioner is watching me. I applaud you if you still take on the task. Detailed on-the-spot commissions like that are something else.

[ewu]

My finger hovers over the lock button each time I read this thread...

Lets 1) keep the discussion civil and 2) keep the discussion off of legal matters unless you are a licensed atty...and no atty would post on here:) Trust me I know....

Thanks =D

[chibimonster]

Depends on the Sasuke. >w> I'm a Sasuke fan.

I've always wondered that too. I think I would be super nervous, especially if the commissioner is watching me. I applaud you if you still take on the task. Detailed on-the-spot commissions like that are something else.

I tend to stick to chibi commissions. People like them because they're cute, and they're easier to draw. (And Faster - I can sketch one in about 15 minutes). However, I still try to make them as detailed and accurate as possible, and it's definitely a bit scary to have a customer looming over me while I draw. At Animation on Display, someone asked for a drawing of princess Luna (from My Little Pony), which I was more than happy to draw. However, the full color thing took me a while, and he was pacing back and forth in front of my table the whole time. I like it better when the customers wander away to do something else.

[Cole]

I think the reason for the strong issue of Fan Art vs original is mostly due to the fact that attendees come to the AA to buy fan art.  It is very rare for an attendee to buy original work in the AA.  I personally have had a few in the past but if you put two pieces of work in front of an attendee, one Fan art and one original of the same genre that they like; more often than not they will buy the fan art or move on to another table looking for a specific series.

Artists who spend money at AA expect to be able to make that back plus the cost of their trip (and maybe pocket money or funds for school, etc).  They know the demands of the attendees going into that room very well and struggle hard to keep up with the constantly changing hot anime of the year.  Yes there are some series that will be popular no matter how old (Sailor Moon, Digimon (S1&2), Dragon Ball, etc); but most series come and go. It's also more difficult to carry over prints from a previous season into the new season because of this; so the artists have to judge carefully on how much to print.  This can lead to a lot of frustration if a print sells out too fast and people still demand it.  I saw this happen to a particular artist last year; she was selling out of 2-3 prints within a few hours and I had to drive her out to print more every day since she was wanting to meet the demands of attendees (such a sweet girl).

It may be a big mess of a grey area, but I think everyone here can agree on some level that if fan art was banned, AA would cease to exist within a few short years.

[princeofrose]

Usually when I draw fanart it is of animes/games I have played or watched/things I enjoy.
For example-Eternal Sonata-I love their outfits-so I really want to make some kind of art with those characters even though it isn't really popular (at least I don't think so I don't know D: )

When I am thinking about drawing fanart of an anime I don't know I try to at least watch one or two episodes and read about it. If I like the anime I will watch the whole thing-if not I put it on the side to maybe pick up again if I have extra time later on.
Personally I find that I have more motivation to draw fanart when it is from series I have watched and enjoyed-not ones I have no clue about.

But I do think with fanart it is fun to see some characters OOC once in a while.
Like Johann from Monster laughing hysterically and prancing around a flowery meadow....actually nevermind...that image is scary.


@Lil Moon-
Sorry for repeating myself. I had too much on my mind so I read your post but I most likely forgot when I was posting X__X;

[LiL Moon]

My finger hovers over the lock button each time I read this thread...

Lets 1) keep the discussion civil and 2) keep the discussion off of legal matters unless you are a licensed atty...and no atty would post on here:) Trust me I know....

Thanks =D

Well, thank you for not closing it. But I understand if you end up having to do so. I don't know if you can answer this, but do you think I should be getting a reply email soon? It's been a week now with no reply from the AA staff so I'm just curious. ^^;; I'm trying to be as patient as I can be.

[LiL Moon]

I tend to stick to chibi commissions. People like them because they're cute, and they're easier to draw. (And Faster - I can sketch one in about 15 minutes). However, I still try to make them as detailed and accurate as possible, and it's definitely a bit scary to have a customer looming over me while I draw. At Animation on Display, someone asked for a drawing of princess Luna (from My Little Pony), which I was more than happy to draw. However, the full color thing took me a while, and he was pacing back and forth in front of my table the whole time. I like it better when the customers wander away to do something else.

Oh man, I would be so nervous if someone was pacing in front of my table like that. But I bet your Luna came out great. I like Luna too. Most people tend to go away for a bit when I'm sewing them something, but I get nervous when they come back and still have to wait while I'm finishing up.

[LiL Moon]

Usually when I draw fanart it is of animes/games I have played or watched/things I enjoy.
For example-Eternal Sonata-I love their outfits-so I really want to make some kind of art with those characters even though it isn't really popular (at least I don't think so I don't know D: )

When I am thinking about drawing fanart of an anime I don't know I try to at least watch one or two episodes and read about it. If I like the anime I will watch the whole thing-if not I put it on the side to maybe pick up again if I have extra time later on.
Personally I find that I have more motivation to draw fanart when it is from series I have watched and enjoyed-not ones I have no clue about.

But I do think with fanart it is fun to see some characters OOC once in a while.
Like Johann from Monster laughing hysterically and prancing around a flowery meadow....actually nevermind...that image is scary.


@Lil Moon-
Sorry for repeating myself. I had too much on my mind so I read your post but I most likely forgot when I was posting X__X;

It's alright. I understand.  :) I do the same thing. I typically research what is popular now, then I watch a few episodes, look at other fanarts, and try to understand the story. If I don't like it after watching/reading it, I don't really feel the urge to make fanart of it. But usually, 9 times out of 10, I end up liking it more than I thought I would so I do make fanart.

Honestly, sometimes it's hard to know what the fans want. Usually I don't know for sure until I go to my first con of the year. I just go with what I "think" they want to see. Some things sell really well at certain cons, but not at others. Last year, there seemed to be a ton of Adventure Time cosplayers. O.o I was really surprised it was so popular.

[chibimonster]

Usually when I draw fanart it is of animes/games I have played or watched/things I enjoy.
For example-Eternal Sonata-I love their outfits-so I really want to make some kind of art with those characters even though it isn't really popular (at least I don't think so I don't know D: )

When I am thinking about drawing fanart of an anime I don't know I try to at least watch one or two episodes and read about it. If I like the anime I will watch the whole thing-if not I put it on the side to maybe pick up again if I have extra time later on.
Personally I find that I have more motivation to draw fanart when it is from series I have watched and enjoyed-not ones I have no clue about.

But I do think with fanart it is fun to see some characters OOC once in a while.
Like Johann from Monster laughing hysterically and prancing around a flowery meadow....actually nevermind...that image is scary.

You like Eternal Sonata? I know whose table I'm stopping by. :) I love that game. So. Much.
It is kind of obscure, though. I can count all the people I know who like it on one hand.

I stick to things I know fairly well for prints, but I don't really get a choice with commissions. With fanart of stuff I'm not as familiar with, such as Hetalia, I go to my crazy obsessive friends. When they like something, they're the best information source ever. I tend to focus on what's popular - I'm not really a hetalia fan, but I'm going to sell fanart of it, and I really like the latest Black Rock Shooter anime, but it doesn't seem to be as popular, so I'll sell at most one print of Black Rock Shooter stuff.

At fanime, I'm considering catering to a wide range of fanbases - Madoka Magica, My little Pony, Vocaloid, Hetalia, even Naruto... and so on. (I tend to watch either the really popular anime or stuff so obscure it would be pointless to try to sell fanart of it). Since this means I'll have a large number of prints, I'll only print a few copies of each at first. If I sell out of anything, I'll just print more. That way, even though I'll end up making several trips to office max, I'll minimize the number of unnecessary prints I make.

[princeofrose]

Yeah it is hard to know what is popular D:
I made some Kuroshitsuji and hetalia things last year but I didn't get year...so I am hoping that people still like those series XD (I know Hetalia is still enjoyed but Kuroshitsuji ended so I dunno :O )

When I am unsure of what to do I usually ask friends for  information on a particular anime that I don't know much about but want to draw fanart of.
Yeah me too! I never thought that Adventure Time which is a kids show on Cartoon Network would be so popular! But then I watched it and I love it <3

Sometimes I try typing in "most popular blah blah blah" And see what it comes up with and then if I haven't seen it watch a few episodes XD

Yeah! ETERNAL SONATA WOO!
I am playing it right now actually. I stopped after you go into this mirror place and you get Crescendo in your party (playing ps3 one)
AND HE HAS THE POWER OF THE GALAXY LOLOLOLLLL
My friends groan whenever I play it because...they beat the game and they say the story is just...bad. Like the beginning its like you are stopping...um...that dude...(trying not to put spoilers in) to stop making funky evil creatures into an army to destroy everything-but it goes like a whole 180 and changes into something like totally different and weird...that probably doesn't make any sense but
I LOVE the characters and the character outfits/set designs.
That is why I played the game and want to draw them >W<-
Did you beat the game yet?
Who are you favorite characters?
I really like Jazz, Chopin, Beat (so cute), Falsetto? (the kicky girl with short hair) andddd there are more but I haven't run into them yet.
I. Can't. Stand. Salsa. I like her interactions with Beat but her...accent. Ugh. And when she says "SOLAR FLARE."
Other than that I enjoy everything else XD

Yeah if my friends say that they really love "X" anime then I will watch it and see if I enjoy it enough to draw fanart of it >:P

There is an Office Max near fanime? :O I never knew that!

[chibimonster]

I watched one of my friends play basically the entire game because we had nothing better to do over the summer. Now, I'm button mashing my way through the game. I've been a bit too busy for gaming recently :( and I'm stuck at the point where I have to fight Fugue (and actually beat him). UGH He's so annoying. And I also have the PS3 version. When I was thinking about buying a gaming console, my friends were like, "Don't get an Xbox, whatever you do".

My favorite characters are Chopin, Polka, Allegretto, Jazz, and Viola. And I also hate Salsa... she's really obnoxious (not as bad as Fugue, though).

I love all of the art in the game. It's so pretty and colorful. And I agree that the costume designs are awesome. I should cosplay as one of the characters and see how many people recognize me. :)

A lot of my friends who have seen me play Eternal Sonata were like, "When they made this, were they on drugs?", but  I kind of like I because it's weird. Unique games can be hard to find.

I think Kuroshitsuji will still be popular. I have a lot of friends who are still talking about it. Also, since it's ended, you might get a lot of customers wanting to fill the "Oh no! My favorite series is over. What do I do now?" void.

I'm wondering if Naruto fanart will still be popular. It seems that Naruto isn't "cool" anymore... or maybe this is just me. I didn't see as many Naruto cosplayers at Fanime 2011 as I did during the previous couple of years.

My definition of close isn't the same as everyone's definition, but there's an Office Max in San Jose that's about 2.5 miles from the convention center - in other words, close enough to drive to during a lunch break. I'm fortunate enough to have a minion (my mom) who can run some errands for me, assuming that she's allowed to leave the table at all. I don't know how strict they'll be about the whole "minors must be accompanied by a parent/guardian at all times" thing.
There's also an Office Max that's about 5 minutes from my house that I can stop by on my way to or from the convention. I live close enough to Fanime to make staying in a hotel kind of pointless.

If you haven't gotten prints made yet, I really recommend Office Max. The staff are fairly helpful, and the quality is really good. The colors were nice and accurate. Also, it's inexpensive. 8.5x11 prints on glossy paper are around 70 cents each, I believe. They also do 11x17, legal size (8.5x14), and two sizes of postcards.

I love my friends. They're basically typical anime fans, so they're a good indication of whether or not something will sell well. I show them some art, and if they like it, then several other people will probably like it enough to buy it. The only downside is that my friends keep begging me for free art. >.<

I actually check out deviant art to see if something is popular. If I notice that something has a lot of fanart, I'll look it up and see if it's good. I'm a bit slow to pick up on trends, though, so usually, someone will tell me, "Hey, this series is good. Go watch it".

[ewu]

This thread has totally moved off topic. Please move conversations to other appropriate threads or personal messages.

[LiL Moon]

Ok well I finally got an email from the staff. The details of the fanart policy are still being sorted out since they do agree that craft-type fanarts are a different thing entirely. I'm not sure when it'll be finalized, but at least he calmed my nerves and assured me that I my table registration is not in jeopardy since this matter is out of my control.  :)

[Tontos.Horse]

At least people are getting emails saying you can't sell this or that. I have yet to receive an email. And I have emailed Fanime asking what is up. I just want to know if I have gotten in or not. If not, fine just let me know. Initial the computer system let me in, then I was waitlisted close to the top then the number kept getting further from the top. So I have no idea what number I am on the waitlist OR if I am even on the list any more. As far as people getting emails saying that can't sell certain items, that's understandable. But don't bill your artist alley signups as first come first served. It's juried. Yes, I understand that Fanime has to review artist's work no matter what kind of signup system they have but if they are going to be super strict on the gray area of Fanart then tell us so. That would allow us time to make sure we have original work posted on our websites or created. My best seller's are fanart images so that is what I have posted. If I need to sell only original work or a mix, tell me so and I will post images that reflect that. Give us the information ahead of time so we can be compliant with your rules. It will save time on your end Fanime and make for happier artists.
Sincerely,
Left completely in the dark and frustrated with Fanime

[arcadiapandora]

I actually got a reply from Fanime about the waitlist - apparently it was bugging out so they removed it. I can say they did get past the 30s in the waitlist - but if you were in the 50's or higher, I think your chances of getting in are kind of low.

On topic - I had my plushie rejected too. He was a Moogle that was hollow so you could use him as a bag. It's the only thing of mine that was turned down though, and I can understand the issue with crafts and especially plushies. I think they just look too similar to official merchandise, even if your particular article is not the exact same or a character that is actively made.

[Tontos.Horse]

I was actually at #1 on the waitlist before it started going crazy. And I haven't a single thing from Fanime. I just want them to be honest with me if I got in or not. If I can't sell certain items, ok, I won't. But don't ignore me. I just think they are being reactive instead of proactive. Don't release the artist contract just before signups with the rules (which are pretty general) then have the signup be first come first served. And if you are going to be sticklers with the grey area of fanart (which they haven't in the past), let us know ahead of time so we CAN comply.