Certain fanart now banned in the artist alley?

[studiomusou]

I apologize if this gets long, but it seems as if nobody has really considered the other side of this argument (which I am guessing the alley staff are considering and what has started this action in the first place).  I do NOT speak for alley staff and I am not directing any of my comments at any particular posters here.

As some have stated before, the actions against fanart are likely based upon legal issues.  I would guess this is primarily coming down from dealers who are tired of having to compete against the art alley and its grey market.  Having acquired and selling officially licensed materials, they are well within their legal rights to demand such limitations be placed on the art alley and I am sure the staff are working hard to come up with an acceptable "middle ground."  Please do not forget that the alley itself is an accommodation provided by the convention and can just as easily be retracted.  If nothing else, you can always get a table in the dealers room and enjoy the same protection and restrictions they enforce.

Secondly, I do feel that the artist alley has slowly built up a sense of greed and lack of etiquette in some artists and I have a proposal.  With many artists simply using fanart to cater to fans despite the obvious legalities to garner the most monies, I propose a profit cutoff scheme.  If an artist is profiting more than double the cost of the table (based on current fanime/AX prices or perhaps just the dealer table fees) then they graduate from artist alley and may only purchase dealer hall tables from that point on.  The alley is meant to help promote new artists and ideas, not earn a living (especially when it is primarily done through copyright infringement).  If an artist is just interested in making money then let them compete on a level field with all the other dealers.  Having been an artist in the alley for nearly 7 years now, I have never gone looking to make a profit (only recovered the cost of the table once) and usually share my table to help promote others and am more than happy when people appreciate my art whether or not they buy anything.

Finally, I would not be against the banning of fanart entirely.  This isn't to say I don't want any, just that if the alley staff decides to go that path then I am wholeheartedly behind their decision.  I will admit to being one of the few people who love to stroll the alley looking at not WHAT people draw, but HOW.  I don't care about the 15th print of Sasuke with a frown or smile...  I want to appreciate your artwork and skill, not what you drew to cater to others.  These past few years I have hardly purchased anything in the alley because many are following the masses in both style and subject.  A ban on fanart would force artists to actually care about not only what they are drawing but how it is perceived.  The argument that it doesn't sell is a lazy one.  Are you truly afraid that without following the crowd that you cannot come up with something that somebody out there will enjoy?  If so, then I ask why are you an artist?  Yes that might be harsh, but if you want a career in art this is something you will need to work out for yourself.  If you are an art hobbyist like myself then please just consider this a challenge to not only improve your skills but find fans that truly enjoy your work for what YOU put into it.  I personally believe a ban on fanart will bring out a huge change to the alley and I would be extremely excited to walk around and see what everybody has come up with.  I would probably be stopping at every table to not only see the art, but converse about the originality of ideas and most likely spend a whole lot more money than I should...  With that said, I would also understand that with registration already started that such a policy might be best suited to next year.

Heck, lemme just end this with a challenge.  If there is no outright ban on fanart, I challenge the artists of the ally to wow me with something completely original.  If you can do this, I will help promote your table and donate to your table cost (outside of anything I am bound to purchase from you).  I'm not a rich man, but I'm willing to put my money on the table to show that I'm not joking nor looking for a soapbox.

[Laggy]

Not gonna quote that, cause it's so long, but...

You say 'catering to customers' a lot. I think that the artists in the artist alley mainly draw what they like, not just what's popular. If anything, they are catering to themselves. For example, this is indeed an anime convention, yet about 99% of the pieces I will be selling have to do with video games and other non-anime related things. Just because someone is doing fanart doesn't mean they're just doing it for money. That's what they like to do.

Also, the Dealer's Hall isn't for art, it's for merchandise. We couldn't sell our drawings or handmade crafts in there, because that's not what it's for. Even the bigger names like SNAFU-Comics and Shark Robot are in the artist Alley, because it's original artwork, not an officially licensed product.

[nurikowindchaser]

It seems to me that the various emails that people have received have said nothing about fanart on paper... they're specifically targeting the craft artists, which is what makes me nervous.  Now, I'm 90% an original artist, but because I got REAL tired of people walking up to my table, asking me if I have such and such character... and when I tell them that it's all original, getting a disgusted look on their face and walking off.  So I swallowed my pride introduced a few pieces of fanart, telling myself that I wasn't totally selling out as long as they were of my favorite characters.  But here's the thing, I personally never buy paper art.  That stuff just sits in a drawer, gathering dust.  I pretty much only buy useful art, so I turned everything into badges, buttons, tiny charms, magnets, etc.  To think that something is fine as long as it's on paper, but suddenly NOT fine when it's on a button, that smacks of a certain unfairness to me.

[chibimonster]

@studiomusou

Just saying, dealer's hall spaces are at least $650. Artist alley tables are $75. That means, in order to "graduate" from the artist alley, I'd need to make $150. I made $150 at a small con (2,000 guests - approx. 1/10th of fanime) in less than a day. Therefore, it's almost impossible not to "graduate" into the dealer's hall after one year. All these artists would:
1) Be forced to spend anywhere from $650 to $950 on a ton of space that they don't need or want.
2) Push out the dealers, resulting in a shortage of anime merchandise at the con and many unhappy fans.
Therefore, this "graduation" suggestion hurts everyone: the artists, the dealers, the convention, and, most importantly, the fans.

Second, the whole, "fanart is bad because artists work less and make more money" complaint is based on the assumption that fans have no knowledge of art skills and will buy something even if it is drawn terribly. This isn't true. Even my most un artistic friends will buy art from the artists with the best skills and avoid the ones that aren't very good. Therefore, original art and fanart require relatively similar amounts of technical skill to appeal to audiences, and fanart shouldn't really be looked down on.

Also, almost every artist who draws fanart will say that they draw fanart because they like the character, not because they want to cater to the fans. I sell stuff because I like it and I want to share my interests with others. Absolutely, I care about my skill. I want to make high quality art for my potential customers. However, I also care that I sell something that is likable and relavant. While I take pride in my original art, and I think that people would at least enjoy looking at it, I would bring very little of it to a con because I like to sell fanart. It isn't about money. I just think that selling my original art would be kind of boring because I can connect with more people through fanart.

Finally, when did wanting to make a profit become a sin? The artist alley is a business, after all, and while I care about the exposure and the fun and the socializing, I would also like to walk away with a little bit of pocket money. Does this make me less of an artist? No. I still had to produce good art in order to make that money.

I have met really amazing professional artists who sell at numerous artist alleys, and they make part of their living that way. They are incredibly nice, respectable people, and I think they would feel a little insulted by some of your statements. In my opinion, the artist alley should be for anyone who wants a table, well-established or not. It's just plain wrong to kick people out because they are successful. Their success doesn't hurt anyone (I was right next to an amazing professional artist at animation on display, and I still made quite a lot of profit), so why should we exclude them? Yes, they could get a table in the dealer's hall if they wanted to, but they don't want to. It doesn't make them greedy or selfish that they pay several hundred dollars less than the dealers; it just means they they are smart businesspeople.

[octorok]

A ban on fanart would force artists to actually care about not only what they are drawing but how it is perceived.  The argument that it doesn't sell is a lazy one.  Are you truly afraid that without following the crowd that you cannot come up with something that somebody out there will enjoy?  If so, then I ask why are you an artist?  Yes that might be harsh, but if you want a career in art this is something you will need to work out for yourself.  If you are an art hobbyist like myself then please just consider this a challenge to not only improve your skills but find fans that truly enjoy your work for what YOU put into it.  I personally believe a ban on fanart will bring out a huge change to the alley and I would be extremely excited to walk around and see what everybody has come up with.  I would probably be stopping at every table to not only see the art, but converse about the originality of ideas and most likely spend a whole lot more money than I should...  With that said, I would also understand that with registration already started that such a policy might be best suited to next year.

I totally agree with this! This is what I've been wanting to say this entire conversation, basically.

I understand that people should be able to make fan art and express their enthusiasm over copyrighted materials. But to me, Artist Alley has always been a great opportunity to look at other people's ORIGINAL art and show off my own. IMHO, it's one of the few ways that original art has equal footing with fanart. If you stick an original character on Deviantart, it won't get as many eyeballs as fanart. But in the Artist Alley, it has a slightly better chance!

I don't think fanart should be banned. But I think we should stop seeing limits on fan art as, well, limiting (lol) and instead start seeing it as an opportunity to show off more of our original art.

[LiL Moon]

@studiomusou

I completely agree with Laggy and chibimonster.

Artists can't sell fanart in the dealer's hall and popular artists should not be "punished" by being asked to leave the alley because they make too much profit. Not all artists are greedy or simply out for profit. As chibimonster said, many just want to share their love of a character or make conversation with other fans. Sure there are some artists that don't care to make a profit, but I seriously believe this is just a minority. I mean really, how many of us want to go a con and only make enough to cover table costs? "Well, I still gotta pay for my hotel, for travel, for food, for my badge, for my prints, for my labor, but hey I made enough to cover my table so I did great!"  ;D I think I only remember hearing 1 person say that. Sure it's good to just get your art out there, but after a while of always ending up in the red, I think I would be pretty discouraged at selling. Heck, I don't think I could afford to sell at all. If I make enough to cover all my costs plus have a little extra to bring home and pay my taxes with, I'm a happy camper. I certainly wouldn't try to make a living from selling in the AA, but I want it to be profitable enough to keep me going. I like to have extra money to reinvest in my art and to travel more so I can get my art out there. I don't really want to be a starving artist.

And I would NEVER want fanart to banned. You said an artist alley is meant to promote new artists and ideas. Now why can't a new artist promote their new ideas through fanart? It does not take any less skill than an original artist. If anything, I think it takes more skill for an artist to take a character that is not their own and recreate into their own style or make an original interpretation of it. I am simply amazed by what some artists can do with fanart. The ideas can still be original regardless if the character is or is not. Also, a bad artist is still a bad artist regardless if they make fanart as well.

I think the challenge with original artists is simply getting your art out there and getting people to purchase it. Original artists in the alley usually have to work twice as hard to get people to come to their table to even look at there stuff. I visit quite a few of these artists and it's quite sad to hear how they have barely sold anything simply because their stuff is all originals. Then I never see them there again in the alley. This is not the fault of the fanart artists taking away their business. This is their choice in venue. This is an anime convention. People come here because of 1 reason: their love anime, games, and all these Japanese. Not too many people come here expecting to find "original" artists. They come for fanart. So of course you're going to have a harder time selling original art. Now that's not to say artists can't be successful selling original art here. Believe me, I went one year and sold nothing but original art and I nearly sold out. BUT, I think a big part was that I still catered to the style and theme of the convention. I still made art that I expected these types of people would be interested in seeing. If you completely miss the mark, good luck making your deposit back. And also, even though I sold all originals, I STILL had tons of people asking me for fanart. That's what people really wanted to see me make the most. If you are looking for art that is not influenced by anime, games, or Japanese culture or if you are looking to sell that type of art, an anime convention is NOT the place for you. You'd be better off trying to go to a nice craft fair or a special artist exhibit that really does promote your art.

Lastly, you challenge us to be "real artists," but despite the name for the venue, not everyone here is what you would to consider to be a "real artist." On the contrary, many of the of the artists are actually hobbyists. Not all of us are interested in making a career in art. In fact, some of the best artists have no intentions of pursuing a career in art. Rather, art is their hobby. They make art for the fun of it. They use art as an extra source of money, to help pay for school, and to simply to be around fans. I think a majority, if not all of these types of artists sell fanart for sure. Why? Not because they want to make a profit, but because art is their hobby and anime is their interest. Sometimes these artists also sells originals. Not because they want their art to be noticed, but because they enjoy making original characters.

If you want to make a career in art and plan to go to a con to sell your originals, I'm assuming that you are trying to get a career working in anime, gaming, or any other Japan-inspired job. If that's the case, then I am rooting for you all the way.   ;) That's the best place for you to be noticed by those types of companies. It won't be easy, but you're on the right track. However, if you're looking for a career in art and have no interest in pursuing those types of jobs or are looking to promote your art that is truly original, why are you wasting your time selling at an anime convention? Put your money to good use and look for a proper venue to promote your art. I'm sure there are plenty out there.

Remember, Fanime was made for fans of anime and everything related to it. That's what people come here for. That's what people want to see. Let's try to keep the "fan" in fanart and Fanime.

That's my 5 cents. Keep the change.  ;D Sorry for the lengthy post.

[LiL Moon]

It seems to me that the various emails that people have received have said nothing about fanart on paper... they're specifically targeting the craft artists, which is what makes me nervous.  Now, I'm 90% an original artist, but because I got REAL tired of people walking up to my table, asking me if I have such and such character... and when I tell them that it's all original, getting a disgusted look on their face and walking off.  So I swallowed my pride introduced a few pieces of fanart, telling myself that I wasn't totally selling out as long as they were of my favorite characters.  But here's the thing, I personally never buy paper art.  That stuff just sits in a drawer, gathering dust.  I pretty much only buy useful art, so I turned everything into badges, buttons, tiny charms, magnets, etc.  To think that something is fine as long as it's on paper, but suddenly NOT fine when it's on a button, that smacks of a certain unfairness to me.

This is the whole reason why I started this topic. I do feel like the crafts and non-paper artists are being singled-out when it comes to fanart. I don't see why we can't sell fanart simply because our's does not come printed on paper? There are millions of paper fanarts out there, but there are less fancraft artists out there.

I believe that fanart should not be judged by the choice of its form, but by the creativity of the artist.

.....had a Martin Luther King Jr. moment there....

[studiomusou]

@Lil Moon: I agree that non-paper crafts shouldn't be singled out, but I think most of the crafts found in artist alley tend to compete with licensed material (simply because the materials are cheap and easily available).  If you are doing a craft not officially available then I applaud you and hope it doesn't get banned/restricted.

@Lil Moon/Laggy/Chibimonster: First I want to say that I wasn't singling any particular person out so don't take any of what I said personally.  Not everybody is out just for money and I can appreciate that.  Perhaps my wording was a bit harsh, but my argument that fan art is making art alleys worse is based simply on the legalities of the situation.  I understand that people are fans of a particular anime/game/show/etc. but there is a fine line between showing admiration and trying to cash in at another's expense.  You must realize that if you are trying to make a living from your fanart sales then you are no different from a forger.  That said, I am only aiming this at those that are blind to the ethics of this situation.  If you feel this doesn't apply to you then I have no issue with you and happily look forward to seeing you at the con.

The proposal for "graduation" is based upon pure profit.  This means that you cleared about $200 AFTER you subtract all material costs, labor, table costs, reg costs, hotel and transportation, and any other con costs you endure.  Also, the price I threw out was a generic example and not meant to be taken literally.  If the cost of a dealer table is $650 then the graduation point would probably be more like $800.  The argument that this would crowd the dealers hall is simply false.  The convention makes alot of money based on the dealers costs as well as their draw.  Most conventions would be more than willing to expand dealers rooms to make room for more if they can.  The argument that the dealers room isn't for art is also false.  What you are truly afraid of is the fact that if you "graduate" then you can no longer rely on fanart and that was the whole point of my proposal. 

[LadyUni]

@studiomusou -
While some of your arguments and proposals are a bit extreme and not exactly feasible in the anime AA setting, I'd just like you to know it was very refreshing and encouraging to hear your support of original work. Glad someone will be there caring about my skill level and the style I've been polishing for years rather than what kind of popular franchise I can crank out for some extra cash.

If it were a facebook post, I'd like it.  :P

[Cole]

@Tontos.Horse
Waitlist means that all of the AA tables were filled. If they put up the full room of tables with no waitlist hold backs, then that means they have to wait to see who doesn't pay/drops their table. Meaning they can't really say anything till closer to con or as people drop. If no one drops, then no waitlist people can get a spot (given prior situation is true).

[chibimonster]

I think I have an idea that fewer people will object to:

Since there are several video rooms that never seem to have a lot of people in them, why doesn't Fanime take one of the film rooms and instead make it into an "original art showcase" or something like that? It would be like an extension of the artist alley (we're in need of more tables anyway). People would still have to pay for their tables, submit examples of their work, etc. However, there would be a no fanart or  maybe a 10% only rule in place, so the artists there would get to show off their original work without having to worry about competition from fanart. Tables in the original art showcase should probably cost less than artist alley tables - more like $50. Also, there should be advertising in the program book and on stage zero and probably a few signs so that people know it's there.

And then, we keep the same rules in the artist alley and everyone's happy.

[octorok]

This is not the fault of the fanart artists taking away their business. This is their choice in venue. This is an anime convention. People come here because of 1 reason: their love anime, games, and all these Japanese. Not too many people come here expecting to find "original" artists. They come for fanart. So of course you're going to have a harder time selling original art. Now that's not to say artists can't be successful selling original art here. Believe me, I went one year and sold nothing but original art and I nearly sold out. BUT, I think a big part was that I still catered to the style and theme of the convention. I still made art that I expected these types of people would be interested in seeing. If you completely miss the mark, good luck making your deposit back. And also, even though I sold all originals, I STILL had tons of people asking me for fanart. That's what people really wanted to see me make the most. If you are looking for art that is not influenced by anime, games, or Japanese culture or if you are looking to sell that type of art, an anime convention is NOT the place for you. You'd be better off trying to go to a nice craft fair or a special artist exhibit that really does promote your art.

I'm not sure I agree with this.

I feel like this paragraph was written with the idea that original art won't be in anime/manga style and has nothing to do with this con, which is kind of a weird assumption to make. If we're going to an anime convention, doesn't that already mean that we like anime ?____? And/or that our art is influenced by it?

I also don't think it's a good suggestion to take our original art to a nice craft fair or special art exhibit, because practically everyone else in the art community looks down on anime/manga style art. Artist alleys in anime conventions are some of the only places I'd feel welcome!

Overall, I really disagree with this idea that fan art is THE BIGGEST REASON that the Artist Alley exists. IMHO, the reason it's there is for us to showcase our anime-influenced art, whether it's original or not. I don't think that fan art should be banned, but I do support lightweight limitations on it if it will encourage original art.

Also, an idea: What if we made a 50/50 or 70/30 rule for booths instead of for individual artists? That way, if an artist only wanted to do fan art, they'd just have to find someone else who only wants to do original.

[chibimonster]

Also, an idea: What if we made a 50/50 or 70/30 rule for booths instead of for individual artists? That way, if an artist only wanted to do fan art, they'd just have to find someone else who only wants to do original.

The only problem is that some people, such as minors or those with a TON of merchandise, might have trouble sharing a table. Since minors have to have a parent/guardian with them at all times, this leaves no room to share without resorting to demented artist alley musical chairs. For artists who have a ton of merchandise, they would have to find another artist with a ton of merchandise in order to make things balance out. At that point, all that stuff wouldn't fit at one table.

[LiL Moon]

@ octorok

I think you might need to re-read my post again because I wasn't making the points that you came up with. O.o? I said that it is possible for people to do well selling originals in the AA and I did encourage artists who have an original style that is influenced by anime or Japanese culture to continue to sell in AA.

I am speaking more about those who have art that have nothing to do with anime or Japanese culture. There are a few artists I see every now and again that are just completely out of place there. I saw some at AX, but darn, I can't remember what it was they sold for an example. But these types of people are ones who should look for a more proper venue. I think one guy was selling sunglasses. Not anime-themed sun glasses, but ones you can buy at like Walmart or something. XD

Even though you disagree, I still believe fanart plays a big role in the artist alley, but I am certainly not discouraging those who want to make original art. I just don't want people to look down on those who choose to make fanart. Often we are either thought of as bandwagon jumpers or greedy business people with absolutely no creativity or skill in art. Though there are a few out there with the mentality, it's just a minority. We should not be judged just because we make fanart and we should not assume that making fanart limits our abilities as artists.

[jAded]

It's not the style that sells, it's the skills. If you are that unhappy with rules that come up, don't participate. It's really as simple as that. No one is forcing you to participate. No matter what they do, someone's going to unhappy.

[LiL Moon]

@ studiomusou

I understand your concerns about the legalities of selling fanart. I just think that there does seem to be a bias on the forms of art. Yeah, crafts are a strong point for legal matters since there is merchandise made by companies, but I think the same could be said for prints as well. Of course, that's why there are rules not to copy or trace for prints. But there are posters and other merchandise that use prints so I wonder if the same legalities could be said just like for crafts? I do take care not to copy official merchandise just like print artists and I do like to make originals or items that can't be bought in stores. So I don't like to be treated like I am trying to steal from a company when I try my hardest to be as unique as possible. T.T Believe me, even I would feel bad if I only made fanart since I do understand that it's not good to piggyback off of someone's ideas on everything.

I think no matter how many times you suggest the "graduation" idea, I'd still be against it. I think your idea works in only one situation and that's when the artist only sells originals. I know lots of artists who have graduated to being dealers because they are making merchandise through mass production and licensing just like the other dealers. And I am so proud of them. I wish I could be like them. But then, there are those other artists. >.> ...Those that mass produce fanart. I mean, those people seem to go against all your ideals. These are the people who make fanart for profit. I think graduating them only allows them the satisfaction that they are taking advantage of people and fanart. I don't think I have ever seen a dealer that sells both fanart and originals. I wish I could be one, but I can't. It's not because I am afraid. It's not because I don't make enough money. It's because, at the moment, I am an artist. I want to be in the alley. I don't feel I should move on even if I make more than enough. Maybe someday I will move on, but right now, I am an artist, not a dealer. I think if I did move on, I'd go with your route though of only making originals. Btw, I don't know if you know, but those artists that regularly sell in the dealers hall sell in the artist alley at Fanime because they are not allowed on the dealers hall. XD But at Anime Expo, they have at least 3-4 booths with nothing but mass produced fanart.

[LiL Moon]

It's not the style that sells, it's the skills. If you are that unhappy with rules that come up, don't participate. It's really as simple as that. No one is forcing you to participate. No matter what they do, someone's going to unhappy.

A style is a skill. XD In my book at least. And yeah, if I didn't like the rules, I wouldn't have signed up. But, the rules were not clearly defined. So you can't blame me for wondering about some rules that were brought up after the fact.

[arcadiapandora]

Secondly, I do feel that the artist alley has slowly built up a sense of greed and lack of etiquette in some artists and I have a proposal.  With many artists simply using fanart to cater to fans despite the obvious legalities to garner the most monies, I propose a profit cutoff scheme.  If an artist is profiting more than double the cost of the table (based on current fanime/AX prices or perhaps just the dealer table fees) then they graduate from artist alley and may only purchase dealer hall tables from that point on.  The alley is meant to help promote new artists and ideas, not earn a living (especially when it is primarily done through copyright infringement).  If an artist is just interested in making money then let them compete on a level field with all the other dealers. 

I agree with a lot of your post - but definitely NOT this portion, for a few reasons:

1) There ARE artists who go to artist alleys and do commissions/sell prints as a living - and I don't see why this shouldn't be okay. In fact, I think this should be encouraged. It's difficult to make it as an artist - any kind of artist - and that there are places like conventions, flea markets, etc, that allow artists to rent a space for cheap is important to the art community as a whole. There's a sense of equality in the AA that prevents the idea of competing for profits. For one, you have the same space, and your art could be to one person's taste but not to another. Art is so subjective, how do you determine something like unfair profiteering because someone is either "better" at it or caters to a specific audience? That's not unfair, and you can't prove someone is doing it purely for profit.

2) If you judge the amount of profit you make only by the cost of renting the table - you're missing out completely on the costs of supplies and labor. For example, I make corsets. I may sell one corset from between 45$-400$. However, it takes 20-40 hours of labor to make a corset, and the base cost of supplies is around 65$. By your standards, if I sold just one corset, I'd have to move to the dealers room.

3) There is a strong difference in selling art of your own creation and selling merchandise. The business acumen is completely different, as is the amount of labor involved in the creation of the product. On one end, you create the product from conception to physical form. On the other, you play economics and purchase the items created by others. Not that you can't self produce, but the idea is that in the dealer's room, this is a place where the intention is sales of mass quantities of merchandise, much of which is not necessarily acquired or created by yourself.


I completely disagree with the idea that someone who is successful needs to leave the AA because they are doing better than others - that feels like a punishment rather than a graduation (hey you're doing well here, but that's not fair to others because they're not doing as well as you, so lets throw you in a venue where you can't compete without several hundred dollars of investment in space and product and if you fail, well, that's just too bad). I just feel that if you're not doing so well, maybe it's not because there's heavy competition, or because of fan art - it's because that artist is just not that good, or selected bad pieces, or the quality of their prints/buttons/bookmarks/keychains is crap. Hard truth for someone who doesn't do well, but I think we should consider personal failures before blaming others for an artist's lack of success.

[nurikowindchaser]

@Lil Moon: I agree that non-paper crafts shouldn't be singled out, but I think most of the crafts found in artist alley tend to compete with licensed material (simply because the materials are cheap and easily available).  If you are doing a craft not officially available then I applaud you and hope it doesn't get banned/restricted.

I... don't agree with the cheap and easy statement at all when it comes to crafts.  A hand made plushy, just for the artist to make any profit at all for the materials and time involved, sell for around $40-$60... and that's not even if it's a truly intricate piece of work.  I once purchased a hand-made dragon plushy for $130.  Dealers can sell factory-made plushies for $15 because they were made by the thousands by wage-slaves in third-world countries.  That is really what craft artists are competing with, the fact that we can only make things in very small batches or as completely original works, but have to price to compete with a world used to buying stuff from Walmart.  Even little buttons, which can be printed in slight bulk for not too much isn't going to get you anywhere near the profit margin of doing a bunch of prints on paper that you sell for $10-$20.  I think the profit I make on each button is about $1, given that I only print fifty at a time. When I still did prints, the profit I made on each one was $5... and it was only that low because I printed them at home rather than using a printer to print in real bulk.

I agree that craft artists shouldn't re-make already available licensed products... but how many do you think really do that?  I always loved artists alleys because there was the option of getting stuff that isn't the popular "flavor of the month."  Those of us who like stuff that isn't Naruto or Hetalia can actually find something to buy.  :P

[octorok]

@ octorok

I think you might need to re-read my post again because I wasn't making the points that you came up with. O.o? I said that it is possible for people to do well selling originals in the AA and I did encourage artists who have an original style that is influenced by anime or Japanese culture to continue to sell in AA.

I am speaking more about those who have art that have nothing to do with anime or Japanese culture. There are a few artists I see every now and again that are just completely out of place there. I saw some at AX, but darn, I can't remember what it was they sold for an example. But these types of people are ones who should look for a more proper venue. I think one guy was selling sunglasses. Not anime-themed sun glasses, but ones you can buy at like Walmart or something. XD

Even though you disagree, I still believe fanart plays a big role in the artist alley, but I am certainly not discouraging those who want to make original art. I just don't want people to look down on those who choose to make fanart. Often we are either thought of as bandwagon jumpers or greedy business people with absolutely no creativity or skill in art. Though there are a few out there with the mentality, it's just a minority. We should not be judged just because we make fanart and we should not assume that making fanart limits our abilities as artists.

Ahh, you're right, I did miss that distinction between anime-influenced original artists and unrelated original artists. But now that I see it... why does it matter? ?____? Sure, some people probably bring things that are completely outlandish, but MOST people bringing their original art to Fanime are probably influenced by anime or Japanese culture. I don't think the sunglasses guy is coming to this forum to complain about fan art, lol.

I agree that fan art plays a big role in the Artist Alley, I just don't think it takes precedent over original art (nor vice versa). It sucks that people think you are greedy bandwagon jumpers etc etc, but I really don't think that would be the motive behind any fanart limits. In my eyes, it isn't trying to persecute fanart as much as it is trying to help original art.