Certain fanart now banned in the artist alley?

[LiL Moon]

@ octorok

Well, why doesn't it matter? I'm just looking out for those who really are trying to sell original art, but are sad when no one buys from them. Maybe they need to rethink about what they are selling and where they are selling. I do remember now. There was a guy selling found object sculptures in the alley. Now, none of his sculptures seemed to fit at an anime con so I'm suggesting that instead of wasting his money selling there, he should have tried to find some place where his art could really shine.

Whether fanart takes precendence over original art, I think that's for the fans to decide. Many like fanart and many like originals. You're right that limits on fanart is not intended to persecute it. Rather, it's all in the legal issues. But I don't believe it necessarily helps original art either. I think that could also vary from artist to artist and from con to con. Personally, I feel original art limits me. I can crank originals out pretty easy, but when I want a challenge, I make fanart. I can make any cute original plushies, but I need lots of practice to bring an original character out from the 2D world into 3D. And still be able to get the correct amount of detail and proportions. Or try to come up with a new way to present it. That's just my instance though.

I'd rather not continue debating on it though as I know how strongly you feel about originals as I do with fanart. Plus my fingers hurt from typing. ^^;;; So I rather just agree to disagree. I will be selling originals this year though. But my spending money will likely go to fanarts.

[LiL Moon]

I... don't agree with the cheap and easy statement at all when it comes to crafts.  A hand made plushy, just for the artist to make any profit at all for the materials and time involved, sell for around $40-$60... and that's not even if it's a truly intricate piece of work.  I once purchased a hand-made dragon plushy for $130.  Dealers can sell factory-made plushies for $15 because they were made by the thousands by wage-slaves in third-world countries.  That is really what craft artists are competing with, the fact that we can only make things in very small batches or as completely original works, but have to price to compete with a world used to buying stuff from Walmart.  Even little buttons, which can be printed in slight bulk for not too much isn't going to get you anywhere near the profit margin of doing a bunch of prints on paper that you sell for $10-$20.  I think the profit I make on each button is about $1, given that I only print fifty at a time. When I still did prints, the profit I made on each one was $5... and it was only that low because I printed them at home rather than using a printer to print in real bulk.

I agree that craft artists shouldn't re-make already available licensed products... but how many do you think really do that?  I always loved artists alleys because there was the option of getting stuff that isn't the popular "flavor of the month."  Those of us who like stuff that isn't Naruto or Hetalia can actually find something to buy.  :P

I agree. Plushies are not cheap. But the China ones are.  ;D Seriously, those things fall apart by the time I get home. I appreciate the crafter's work and don't mind paying extra for something hand-made. I doubt crafters could ever compete with companies. Not at the speed they mass produce stuff.  So, are we really that much of a threat?

[octorok]

Also, an idea: What if we made a 50/50 or 70/30 rule for booths instead of for individual artists? That way, if an artist only wanted to do fan art, they'd just have to find someone else who only wants to do original.

The only problem is that some people, such as minors or those with a TON of merchandise, might have trouble sharing a table. Since minors have to have a parent/guardian with them at all times, this leaves no room to share without resorting to demented artist alley musical chairs. For artists who have a ton of merchandise, they would have to find another artist with a ton of merchandise in order to make things balance out. At that point, all that stuff wouldn't fit at one table.

Ahh, I hadn't thought of that )x

[Tontos.Horse]

@Cole
I know how a wait list works. If you bothered to read my post you would have seen where I stated that I was approved then wait listed with my number going backward from #1. And yes I know they had computer issues that caused that. My point was that I haven't heard from Fanime re: Anything! I don't know if they have issues w/ my crafts. I don't know what # I am on the wait list ( it was #6 before the website reg. was closed). And people who are crafters stated they were #15 or so on the wait list were approved for a table but received an email stating they couldn't sell certain images. I have emailed and posted on th AA Facebook forum starting Mar. 4 & have yet to hear anything.
So please the next time you get an urge to "explain" how something works, do yourself a favor and read the person's posts before you comment. You just end up looking ignorant and rude.

[M]

@Cole
I know how a wait list works. If you bothered to read my post you would have seen where I stated that I was approved then wait listed with my number going backward from #1. And yes I know they had computer issues that caused that. My point was that I haven't heard from Fanime re: Anything! I don't know if they have issues w/ my crafts. I don't know what # I am on the wait list ( it was #6 before the website reg. was closed). And people who are crafters stated they were #15 or so on the wait list were approved for a table but received an email stating they couldn't sell certain images. I have emailed and posted on th AA Facebook forum starting Mar. 4 & have yet to hear anything.
So please the next time you get an urge to "explain" how something works, do yourself a favor and read the person's posts before you comment. You just end up looking ignorant and rude.

Please refrain from attacking each other. I know that you're upset and frustrated, but our staff is trying the best they can to clear out their backlog of the waitlist + e-mails.

They will eventually get to your e-mail and respond.

[Tontos.Horse]

I was stating my opinion especially of a troller that has over 85 posts on the forum with either ignorant statements or inane questions. But typical Fanime, if your AA table signups are really first come first served and I was wait listed as #1 or #6 I should have been dealt with by now. I'm done with the basic lack of organization and BS. As the late, great Whitney Houston said, "Kiss my ass!"

[M]

I was stating my opinion especially of a troller that has over 85 posts on the forum with either ignorant statements or inane questions. But typical Fanime, if your AA table signups are really first come first served and I was wait listed as #1 or #6 I should have been dealt with by now. I'm done with the basic lack of organization and BS. As the late, great Whitney Houston said, "Kiss my ass!"

I haven't really said anything to you to warrant your behavior or response. I can guarantee that our staff is working as hard as they can to ensure that everything is done in a fair manner, but I'm not sure that anything I can say will please you except if I were to get you a table (which wouldn't be fair).

[arcadiapandora]

Not to suggest you should spam them, but have you send a follow-up e-mail? I had one e-mail that went without a response for 4-5 days, so I sent another and got that one responded to fairly quickly.

[Oniko]

Edit: deciding to take down much of my post sense I probably have a 50/50 shot at being attacked and really I what I'm looking for most is an answer.

Putting aside if Fanart is right or wrong to sell at Fanime what I'm really looking for is some official statement to make this all clear.  As people have been stating time and time again in here 90%+ of the stuff sold in AA is Fanart.  There have been statements of a few emails but with 300+ artists attending I all I can think of is this nightmare of being hundreds of artists being thrown out onto their butts.  With less then 3 months to Fanime and things unclear we need answers.

P.S. Lil_moon.  I'm sorry if this has already been stated in another post, the thread has been going on for awhile now and I dont remember.  Did they say all plushies or certain ones?  I looked at your gallery and saw the MLP plushies which I think look fantastic, the kind of quality sold in real store from the companies.  Maybe that is what they are worried about?

[chibimonster]

I'm pretty sure they aren't going to switch up the rules for this year. Like you said, there are less than 3 months to go. All the arguments we had about the 50/50 rule were in the context that it would possibly be implemented next year. At least, this is my assumption.

[ewu]

Actually we are formulating and getting approval for the appropriate interpretation of the rules that will be applied to the AA. What is taking so long is that this is clearly a sensitive issue and are balancing all the aspects to ensure there is a viable solution that will be applied to the room.

[chibimonster]

 @ ewu: Does this mean that the 50/50 rule would possibly apply to this year? Because that would mean I have a whole lot of original art to work on.

[Oniko]

@ ewu: Does this mean that the 50/50 rule would possibly apply to this year? Because that would mean I have a whole lot of original art to work on.

I honestly hope not.  Dont know if I could do that much original in time, at least high quality stuff to sell.

[M]

@ ewu: Does this mean that the 50/50 rule would possibly apply to this year? Because that would mean I have a whole lot of original art to work on.

I've reskimmed the pages and I think that I'm the only staffer that's actually mentioned the 50/50 rule (please correct me if I'm wrong). When I pointed out the 50/50 rule, I was using it as an example of how difficult it is for conventions to make rules that everyone will agree is fair. Every rule change from % of fanart to cost of table always incurs a strong wave of negative comments. :(

[Oniko]

@ ewu: Does this mean that the 50/50 rule would possibly apply to this year? Because that would mean I have a whole lot of original art to work on.

I've reskimmed the pages and I think that I'm the only staffer that's actually mentioned the 50/50 rule (please correct me if I'm wrong). When I pointed out the 50/50 rule, I was using it as an example of how difficult it is for conventions to make rules that everyone will agree is fair. Every rule change from % of fanart to cost of table always incurs a strong wave of negative comments. :(

Understandable.  Like the people that dont like the table prices which I think is cheap compared to other cons.  For me it's the fact that there is only about 10 weeks (uuuuuuuuuugh) left till Fanime.

[chibimonster]

I've reskimmed the pages and I think that I'm the only staffer that's actually mentioned the 50/50 rule (please correct me if I'm wrong). When I pointed out the 50/50 rule, I was using it as an example of how difficult it is for conventions to make rules that everyone will agree is fair. Every rule change from % of fanart to cost of table always incurs a strong wave of negative comments. :(

I find it funny that everyone blew the whole thing out of proportion. *facepalm*

[Oniko]

From the terms and conditions we had to sign -
"4. Artists may offer the following merchandise:
b. Fan art clearly showing the artist's work being produced and not intended to replicate the original style or the official likeness of a work held by the license holder."

So If you did like a "chibi" MLP plush it would probably be fine, but a realistic to character design MLP plush was probably what they didnt like.

[LiL Moon]

@ Oniko- I did answer this question, but the answer the staff member gave me was pretty broad. He listed a few of the plushies that I could not sell and said etc so I'm assuming he meant no fanart plushies what so ever.

I understand what you mean about the quality of my plushies. I seriously take it as a compliment, but I feel like I am being punished because I choose to make a high quality plushie. A friend of mine was not told not to sell her MLP plushies and I believe her's are up to par with my skill so I don't know why she was not given the same information? Some of my plushies are also chibis or different versions that don't look like the characters that much and I wasn't given an answer as to if those were ok?

You could argue that my plushies might compete with licensed merchandise or that they look too much like the character. But I work hard to do my research to make sure I am not making copies of an already existing plushie. As for the second half of my statement, I feel like I could argue that plushies DO clearly show my artist work being produced. A 2D artist can easily copy a 2D drawing, but taking a 2D drawing and turning it into a 3D product takes an artist to a whole different level. It is not easy trying to render a 2D character into a 3D model. I believe that that in itself shows my work being produced. There is no way to "copy" a 2D character for plushie artists unless we are copying an existing product...which is just wrong in itself. It's not easy to put a 2D artist and a 3D artist on the same level. As Ewu stated, there is a lot to consider and it can be pretty confusing. These are just all my opinions.

All I mainly want is for a uniform rule to be established (which the staff is already working on) and to be given a right to sell some fanart alongside the 2D artists. I don't mind if I end up being limited, but I don't feel all my fanart plushies should go to waste. I want to share at least some rights with the 2D artists.

[Cole]

@octorok.

There is proof to back up the fanart statement. A few years back, Otakon banned fanart from the Artist Alley. That year the convention, as well as the artists, suffered greatly because of it.
Since then they have chosen a different method. See their AA contract for details on that method as I am unsure of it and it is too difficult to check on my phone.

[reaver]

I think the easy way for Fanime to handle this situation is simple....just sell the exhibit space, just like every other convention.  After all the artist is liable for something that is copyrighted or bootlegged, not Fanime.  A lot of artist alleys and dealer's halls are really starting to get in the individual's business about what they sell and such.  I do not think anyone should be able to tell any artist wether or not what they sell (custom buttons, plushes, keychains, etc.) unless they are the license holder, or have direct proof that what the artist is selling is a bootleg or replica/licensed item.  I have several friends who sell buttons and plushes, totally their own patterns and designs, but based on licensed characters, that because they are fanart, are not permitted to sell in the AA.  Why doesn't Fanime just sell the tables as exhibit spaces (which is what they are selling to artists after all), and just make very straight forward clear cut rules about what can and can not be sold? Attendees love buying fanart in artist alleys too.