Black & White Ball Dress Code Discussion

Started by Okach, May 29, 2012, 05:44:05 PM

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Somebody

Quote from: princesskitty18 on May 30, 2012, 08:49:04 AM

to touch up on a couple of ur points:
- again, miscommunciation between those at the door and what we as staff actually wanted so that was just a general problem for most of the night
...

- unfortunately for the dance display, this is a new system that we worked with this year so there were some glitches that we had to deal with
we do have a prior set list and everything but we had to feng-shui a lot of things because we didnt have a projector this year and all that other stuff

- i wouldn't know about the more experienced dancers but even i coudl tell towards the end that ppl were kind of just dancing around and jumping around
im glad that u were able to teach some other people how to dance and hope that next year things might be a bit difference
as a side comment: maybe you can ask any of us staff members for a dance, since most if not all of us have some experience in all of the dances
:D just a thought for next year

i really hope that even with all the misgivings of the ball this year that u still had fun


Ahhh, good to know! And yes, I had plenty and plenty of fun, the things I mentioned were really minor speedbumps if anything. I'll have to consider finding a staff member who might be interested in a dance, although I'd hope I wouldn't bore them as I'm likely not quite as experienced!

Thanks to all the staff for working so hard on this, the ball really saved Sunday, as the rest of the day hadn't been going so well for me. Can't wait for next year!  :D
Cosplay 2013
Friday night: RWBY (incomplete)
Saturday morning: Arrietty
Sunday afternoon: Ruby w/ Adam (RWBY, no scythe)
Monday: Arrietty

Nina Star 9

I remember asking on the forums previously about heel protectors and was told no. I would love it if they were allowed.

Personally, I'm probably less stable in flats than in 4" heels, to honest, haha. I wear heels all the time and am used to them, not to mention that I've always walked on the balls of my feet from about the time I could walk, so it feels more natural to me. I can work within the 4" limit, though. I also prefer boots for the ankle support, and don't think I would stomp harder on someone's foot just because I have fabric/PU/leather/etc. around my leg in addition to around my foot. Dress heels and dress boots really aren't that different aside from the shaft (and the boots aren't a whole lot heavier), so I'd rather just see boots allowed. I can understand those large platform boots, things like heavy combat boots, etc. being banned, but something that's basically a pump that extents up the calf isn't that different from essentially a boot that is cut lower than the ankle.

I agree that rules need to be implemented across the board, cosplay or not. It seems really silly to me to allow certain things just because an outfit happens to be a costume, and not allow the exact same things when the outfit isn't. I'd rather see the same rules apply equally to everyone.



I thought I mentioned the confusion aspect of the gendered dress code (women possibly not eing allowed to wer pants extect as part of a costume, no mention of men wearing dresses or skirts, etc.), but I guess it wasn't clear enough. When your dress code is confusing at best and offensive at worst, it really needs to be changed, I think. ;) Glad others agree!

Okach

#22
@Nina - Oh, I agree.  Now I get to do something about it :).

I suspect that if I sit here and try to list every conceivable item of clothing that can be worn to the Ball, it would be a rather long day of typing.  We already ran into taxonomy issues on boots this year (dress boots?  Desert boots?  Chukkas?  platforms?  combat boots?  engineer?) enough that it was easier to do the blanket ban except for cosplay.

As for the justification on cosplay, the rationale goes that if you're going to take the time to put together an outfit, we don't want to block you and waste your effort, especially if you flew in and all you could pack was just the cosplay outfit.  On the other hand, I probably don't want to see a Poison cosplay at the Ball.  Yay, more contemplation.

Report from floor vendor - Floor came through mainly in good shape, with a few scuff marks and a few dings.  What does this mean?  More thinking.  Anyone got a psi meter suited to measuring shoe impacts? ;).
Staff Instructor since 2010. 
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Okach

Here's a thought -

would explanatory Youtube videos help?
Staff Instructor since 2010. 
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princesskitty18

Quote from: Okach on May 31, 2012, 03:50:40 PM
Here's a thought -

would explanatory Youtube videos help?
possibly if they're really really well advertised
we can maybe open it up to general questions through the forums and make a video response in answer to the questions
Fanime attendee since 2006
2012 Black & White Ball volunteer
2013-now Black & White Ball Staff

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Okach

I'd rather explain it and answer questions on the forum thread.
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princesskitty18

Quote from: Okach on May 31, 2012, 04:07:38 PM
I'd rather explain it and answer questions on the forum thread.
thats plausible too
then make a video about the dress code in general, and then answer any other questions
the key thing is to make sure its advertised that we have a youtube video about the dress code and stuff like that
Fanime attendee since 2006
2012 Black & White Ball volunteer
2013-now Black & White Ball Staff

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shashinkun

To be fair, inconsistency in applying rules doesn't just happen at the B&W ball - Try to get a straight answer on whether Rovers are allowed to go in through the "out" door  ;D

Here's my (personal) view on shoes:


  • If you can't polish them, they're probably unacceptable.
  • If you would conceivably wear them to the beach, they're unacceptable.
  • Close your eyes and spin around on one foot. If you're too scared to do this, they're unsafe and thus unacceptable.


Okach

@shashinkun

Way the heck back, we thought that "what you would wear to a wedding" was a decent level of description (different event).  People don't think the same way about a subject, oddly enough :P.
Staff Instructor since 2010. 
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WhentheAngelscry

I truly love the Black and White Ball and think it's a lot of fun. As far as the dress code I think that if you're going to ban 4" heels or boots cosplayers shouldn't be allowed in. I mean if your basis for letting them in is they put a lot of effort in to putting together that outfit I can argue that some dress up ensembles take just as long to put together if not longer. It really sucks when you have to be turned away and then see someone wearing the same kind of violation walk right in cause it was part of their cosplay. So if you are going to make a blanket rule please make it apply to all.
I agree with Nina Star and Charis that some people are truly more comfortable in 4" heels. I know it sounds weird but I become a complete klutz when I wear two inch heels while in 4 inch one I can dance for 4 hours straight. I'd gladly close my eyes and spin around in them. I'd love to see explanation videos and real life examples rather than just the drawings. As a side not the drawings are adorable and please don't get rid of them if possible.

Stinasaur

Just a bit of input/observations from an innocent staff member/dancer who had epic door duty halfway through the event:

- heel size/length: The hardest part of monitoring this was 1) lack of lighting and a pink translucent ruler. I can't begin to tell you how many times I had to estimate appropriate shoe attire lengthwise. Since there was ample room for dancing in places NOT on the floor, the rule changed to you may only dance on the floor if your shoes are appropriate, otherwise you will have to be asked to dance on the carpet. However, this was given to staff halfway through the event. Perhaps some heads up sooner would have worked but things happen. Also, the event was being monitored on the floor as well and any situations were cleared up as fast as possible. An idea I came up with (which can be easily done with a bit of spare time and basic art class knowledge) is to create a sort of scale where the base is flat but has a hole in it that is the size of a nickel. Attached to the side is a two-sided ruler. Any questionable heel size/length can simply step into the scale. If the shoe fits, wear it. No questions asked. If not, have a backup. This idea is simply in the brainstorming phase, but perhaps it's something that can be discussed both here and at meetings. As far as soles are concerned, the store I buy all my dance attire at has a fairly legit sized plank of wood from a professional ballroom dance floor that customers can use to rub their shoes on, spin, tap, whatever to assure that their shoe is appropriate for classes and able to do what they need them to do. Surprisingly, some dance shoes do have rubber soles which do leave marks. So one can buy said shoe, thinking that it is appropriate for dancing (technically it is) and come to find out it's no bueno. Perhaps we have a plank of wood similar to the floor that we can use for this purpose as well?


-Appropriate dress attire: Sadly, it's difficult to notice every little thing.... and let's be honest, some people think it's cute to slip on by, even though it just makes it hard on everyone else. For me, I tried my best to honestly check all appropriate attire and was pretty impressed with how hard everyone worked to make their attire as classy as possible. While some things may waver at times, the staff and frequent returning guests uphold the mindset that BW Ball is a classy, yet entertaining, affair. A step above prom, but not so strict and stuffy. We DO want you all to enjoy yourselves and be as comfortable as possible without looking like a scrub. There's only so much we can do. The rest comes down to someone's personal view of "classy vs trashy".
Also, I can't tell you how many times I had to stop people from entering, explain their situation and either hear "i wore this previously at (insert event here) and I did fine/it worked perfectly." or had pulled people aside only to have no one watching them OR the front door and have them slip by. (.... really? I appreciate your excitement to have fun at the event, but come on.) It's a challenge.

- Misc.: While I was overjoyed at the idea of having the assistance of the rovers, I at times felt slightly overwhelmed. Having a group of 5-6 people at the entrance and ONLY manning the "enter" door was a little too much, and everyone would get caught up on that one person who had that one dress code issue, thus stopping the flow of getting people in and out efficiently. I think there should be ropes that define an "entrance" and "exit" with proper signage. Also, perhaps scattering that lovely chunk of people down the hallway (seeing as how we had ample space to do so) to stand watch and be on standby/relief should an instance occur. The biggest issue is that, upon arrival, people just zip on in, assuming that because they're dressed up and at the con that they don't have to stop and pass a security check. Just to be clear, there are certain points rovers/staff are checking upon arrival: VALID BADGE, APPROPRIATE ATTIRE (both formal and cosplay), APPROPRIATE SHOES (length, style, heel width), and some even check for additional oddities (illegal substances, weapons, etc). It's impossible to do this in the span of 15-30 seconds and still manage traffic control. Perhaps some stations are in order?
Idea: Station 1: Entrance - badge/person check. Do you have a valid badge? Are you attempting to smuggle illegal substances/items in? -----> Basically officiating official "con rules" and not being so BW Ball specific? Rovers are best at this, I think.
        Station 2: Attire/Shoe Check: Is your attire/cosplay appropriate? (We had an issue with Pedobear trying to sneak in.....) Are you shoes meeting appropriate guidelines for dancing safely and securely (not just for YOU but for potential partners as well)? ------> BW Ball staff can handle this and there won't be any communication issues.
        Station 3: Special Issues (any and all): If it didn't get resolved between the last two stations, kick it here. A BW Ball Head/2nd or higher staff will be there to assist you and have the final say.
        Station 4: Stamp Zone: If you've passed all of these checkpoints, you get a handstamp that signals that you are all clear and can enter/exit happily. To obtain one, you get a ticket from the attire/shoe station and you hand it over to the person at the door.

While all of this sounds stiff and almost micromanaged, it helps clear up confusion and can give a clear definition of what is and is not ok for the ball. From there, if it still seems sketchy once people are on the floor, it's gonna be on the person themselves because staff can honestly say they've done everything possible to prevent it.
In the end, it's really down to effective communication with everyone.

Thoughts? Especially from my fellow staffers. :)

Wabbit98

@Stinasaur - Which innocent staffer are you again?  I forget at times.  Since I have been doing this for awhile, not my first rodeo I will quickly go over a bit of what you were talking about.

Heel size -- that is something to think about.  But in the end that would cost money, I don't know how much and with our video projection screen situation in flux it will take some long and hard thinking about it.  I thought the thing about on the carpet was communicated?  If not we will work on any communication issues next year.  Plank of wood : money and also could be stolen or misplaced.  Not saying it is a bad idea.

Misc. -- When I was at the front with Rebecca, I stood at one side and just looked at shoes.  The Rover in front looked at the rest of the outfit and another checked badges most of the time.  If I felt we had a problem I directed the people off to the side to talk to either Rebecca or one of the Rovers.  After we switched I do not know how the people at the front handled it.  I basically left it up to them.  The Rovers are there to back you up, if you do not feel comfortable explaining to someone why their attire is inappropriate or they become combative you can always get a Rover to explain to them and they can escalate the issue if they need too.  If you come back, and are at the door, in the future my recommendation would be to have someone off to the side to handle problems.  So that the line can keep moving and not block anything.  Not a fan of the stamp zone, it is something that I might have mentioned years ago, but the logistics would be a nightmare, and also if people left the room they went to the lobby to hang out for a bit.  We did not have any room capacity issues like previous years.

-Kevin
2010 - 2013 :Black and White Ball Staff

2014-2015 : Black and White Ball Department Second

2015 : Extravaganzas Division Second