Gun Control

[Glitch]

The big debate going on everywhere right now.
I myself believe arms should be heavily regulated. There's been this suggestion going online about having a safety test in order to get a gun, gun owner insurance, and individually marked bullets. Which makes sense to me.

I've also seen how there's a large spectrum of people on this issue. Some people are crazed nuts who want to shoot it out with the government, while some people don't want assault rifles but just a weapon to protect themselves.

your thoughts?

[Amanojaku]

I agree.  I have never understood the gun fascination that exists in this country, and I have never felt that I needed one.  I've shot them before at firing ranges. I just don't get it.

[Rhornez]

just for protection but not disarmed that would be bad

[dfens]

Firearms are regulated enough as it is, the media and the government don't care about safety they want to look good and say that I did this stop gap measure that shows I tried and did nothing to solve the problem that criminals and or mentaly ill will find a way to harm people no matter the law.

Look at Japan a few years ago a man in country with no guns rented a box truck ran over as many people as he could then got out when the truck was so wrecked because of the bodies and stabbed many more people to death. Are you going to ban trucks and knives too? What about baseball bats and chainsaws?

Why should you punish law abiding citizens when crimininals will still do what ever they want.

As a gun owner for more than 10 years I've never harmed anyone and why should anyone care how many or what type of firearms I own. If I don't break the law or hurt anyone what harm am I doing if they are locked in my safe. Whether it be for target shooting, hunting, personal defense or hell I just want to stare at it and brag I have one who am I hurting I can spend my money on whatever I want. I don't tell you how to spend yours.

Their is no way to imprint or mark bullets thats a pipe dream.

Look at chicago the most strict gun laws in the united states and they have the highest crime rate in the country, wonder why? How's that working out for them.

Most people like me are tax paying citizens that not only pay sales tax on each firearm, and accessories we help keep workers in america employed that make guns and all the little odds and ends. Since most are still made right here in the US. But you never hear about that. Guess we should forget about those workers who will be let go.

Look if you don't like guns that's your right but don't go and take away my rights which are spelled out in the second ammendment which says I have a right to bear arms.

At my job I see people all the time with money with a high end watch, or expensive car do I tell them hey you don't need that. Your watch is overpriced for a item that tells time, or your car goes over 200 miles an hour their is not a road that allows you to go that fast so why even have it. That prick in the highend car has a higher risk of hurting or killing someone in public with his car by driving too fast thinking he is a race car driver than me who's guns only leaves home to go to the range.

All these laws seem pretty on paper but if you try to have a reasonable conversation with people who are anti's they will never let you get a word in they have made up their mind and are not open to a civil debate.

Their is no magic fix to all these shootings, but bans and harsh restrictions won't work. Even if these laws are passed their is already millions of guns out their that would be grandfathered and exempt. Ban magazines over 10 rounds guess what it takes .5 to 1 whole second to load another 10 rounder why a ban to save .5 seconds that is going to slow someone down.

What a country that can waste time on laws that won't do a thing to prevent another Sandy hook incident when the economy needs to be worked on or worse obamacare is suppose to fix are broken health care system. Oh the illegal immigrant problem that has been going on for decades guess that's not important.

[Amanojaku]

Look at Japan a few years ago a man in country with no guns rented a box truck ran over as many people as he could then got out when the truck was so wrecked because of the bodies and stabbed many more people to death. Are you going to ban trucks and knives too? What about baseball bats and chainsaws?

Strawman argument.  Japan's crime rate is nothing compared to ours, and comparing an isolated incident to rampant gun crime in America is really off the mark.  Trucks are for driving, and baseball bats are for hitting baseballs with.  Chainsaws are for cutting wood.  You could list 1,000 different tools that can kill a person through misuse.  Guns however, are weapons by design.  That is their function.

[echoshadow]

Guns however, are weapons by design.  That is their function.

Agreed. Like the old saying goes, guns don't kill people, people kill people.
I find the whole gun control talk a bit silly. Making rules to buy guns for normal people does not work. Criminals will steal, or buy them illeagly. Thats the case when crazy people go on a rampage. The guns where not theirs.
Instead of looking at guns as the problem look at the people.

[Glitch]

Firearms are regulated enough as it is, the media and the government don't care about safety they want to look good and say that I did this stop gap measure that shows I tried and did nothing to solve the problem that criminals and or mentaly ill will find a way to harm people no matter the law.

Look at Japan a few years ago a man in country with no guns rented a box truck ran over as many people as he could then got out when the truck was so wrecked because of the bodies and stabbed many more people to death. Are you going to ban trucks and knives too? What about baseball bats and chainsaws?

It's pretty easy to get a firearm. The shooters in Arizona and Aurora had legally bought their firearms.

And the incident you refer to is the Akihabara Massacre. Seven people were killed and ten injured. Compare that to Aurora where 12 were killed and 58 injured. A man using three weapons was able to harm more people because unlike the big truck, his weapons were meant to cause harm to human beings(including a 100 round drum, which why in the hell would anyone need that?). Add in that it's much easier to run from a guy with a knife than it is a guy with a gun. You could probably swing a chair and disarm the knife wielder.
So the argument that knives and bats are just as deadly is ludicrous. Would you bring a knife to a gun fight?

[echoshadow]

You bring up a good point. Even when guns are bought legally there is no guarantee that the owner will snap.

I also agree why would anyone need a 50+ round clip?
Just for the fun of it? Come on now.

[EJAY420]

Guns don't kill people. People do........this is bull.
Guns don't kill people, idiots with guns kill people.
Guns are for pussies.
FRom a man who has been in about a dozen hardcore fights, i never ever thought of using a gun at all.  I hate guns.  Too many fucking  idiots with guns in this nation. Idiot fucks.

[dfens]

The point I'm trying to make is that if a person wants to kill other people, they will find a way. Look at Timothy McVay he killed dozens of kids with a truck bomb and took out a whole building. Did he need a gun no. If you waived a magic wand tomorrow and all guns where gone a madman will think up a new way to harm others.

As for the 100 round drum it jammed because they are junk if he used the standard magazines it would have been worse thank god he didn't train and do his homework. I'm getting so tired of why do you need that argument it's such BS. If a law abiding person doesn't harm anyone who cares what he doesn't need. I didn't need to pay 400 plus dollars on a set of anime Blu Rays when the 150 dollar DVD set is just as good why did I need the Blu Ray version? Or why do I need a Swiss watch that costs over 5k when I have a 80 dollar Casio that keeps better time and can take more abuse and requires almost no maintenance. Why did my ex-girlfriend need her louis vuitton handbag when it couldn't even hold half her stuff and cost several times that of a normal bag. We all have things we don't really have a need for. But who am I or anyone to tell someone what they need or don't need.

Oh and easy to buy lets see I have wait 10 days, fill out a form with tons of my personal information, have my name run through various data bases to make sure I'm not a felon, mental case, or prohibited person and show multiple forms of ID. And every single time I make a purchase. Yeah it's so much easier than just showing my drivers license when I buy alcohol. Their is a greater chance of of being killed by a drunk driver than someone being killed in mass shooting.

EJAY420 -  so are you some sort of martial arts expert, if not go ahead and take on multiple people who may have a weapon and see if you come out unscathed. I'd rather not risk it if possible why get hurt or killed when the attacker should be the one hurt.

Glitch you don't like guns,  maybe your afraid of them fine but don't believe that guns are the sole problem that they are evil and can jump up off the table and will hurt you. As for the knife argument how about I come at you with a knife of whatever weapon besides a gun see how easy it is if the person is determined to harm you. It's not fun and not something I wish on any in innocent person.

[Glitch]

I would like to point out I am not for gun bans but gun control. Which are two separate stances.

Why should you punish law abiding citizens when crimininals will still do what ever they want.

The criminals won't just do what they want

As a gun owner for more than 10 years I've never harmed anyone and why should anyone care how many or what type of firearms I own. If I don't break the law or hurt anyone what harm am I doing if they are locked in my safe. Whether it be for target shooting, hunting, personal defense or hell I just want to stare at it and brag I have one who am I hurting I can spend my money on whatever I want. I don't tell you how to spend yours.

So you having the ability to brag about your guns makes okay that people get shot?
What if I wanted to own weapons grade plutonium? Should atomic weapons be available to everyone just because I claim not everybody will kill people with it?

Their is no way to imprint or mark bullets thats a pipe dream.

It's already been done. Specifically with laser etching. Each individual bullet would be marked and registered to a user. The only reason to be against this is if you plan to shoot somebody and not have the bullet traced back to you.

Look at chicago the most strict gun laws in the united states and they have the highest crime rate in the country, wonder why? How's that working out for them.

And I'm sure this would have nothing to do with poverty rate? You also seem contradict yourself by saying guns don't cause crime, but removing guns somehow causes more crime.

Most people like me are tax paying citizens that not only pay sales tax on each firearm, and accessories we help keep workers in america employed that make guns and all the little odds and ends. Since most are still made right here in the US. But you never hear about that. Guess we should forget about those workers who will be let go.

Arms companies getting profits does not justify people dying. So if a company made poisonous gas, we should find a reason to gas people so that the company doesn't go out of business?

Look if you don't like guns that's your right but don't go and take away my rights which are spelled out in the second amendment which says I have a right to bear arms.

The constitution also used to say you could own slaves. The constitution can be amended.
The second amendment was written during a time when Washington needed plenty of men to shoot at the British. He also believed that there shouldn't be a standing army and that our defense should have been made up of militias(thus the well regulated militia part). This was also a time when they were fighting with muskets.

At my job I see people all the time with money with a high end watch, or expensive car do I tell them hey you don't need that. Your watch is overpriced for a item that tells time, or your car goes over 200 miles an hour their is not a road that allows you to go that fast so why even have it. That prick in the highend car has a higher risk of hurting or killing someone in public with his car by driving too fast thinking he is a race car driver than me who's guns only leaves home to go to the range.

Okay, your mixing two arguments together. Telling people not to buy stuff because it's a waste of money and not letting people get certain weapons because they could fall into the wrong hands are two separate debates. You have the right to buy whatever you want if it doesn't hurt anyone, but it is hurting somebody.Your r right to own certain firearms are trumped by everybody's right not to get shot. It is no longer about your rights but about everybody's rights.

All these laws seem pretty on paper but if you try to have a reasonable conversation with people who are anti's they will never let you get a word in they have made up their mind and are not open to a civil debate.

You merely assuming that your opinion is correct just because the other person you argued with didn't debate right. You're also assuming everybody who is for gun control doesn't know how to debate, so therefore your right.

Their is no magic fix to all these shootings, but bans and harsh restrictions won't work. Even if these laws are passed their is already millions of guns out their that would be grandfathered and exempt. Ban magazines over 10 rounds guess what it takes .5 to 1 whole second to load another 10 rounder why a ban to save .5 seconds that is going to slow someone down.

It is true that there is no magic fix to crime, but you can make criminals less effective.
The Arizona shooter was tackled and beaten while reloading his gun. Which would have happened sooner had he not had a 30 round magazine. And why would anyone need a 30 round magazine? Do you expect 20 people to jump out of nowhere and attack you?

What a country that can waste time on laws that won't do a thing to prevent another Sandy hook incident when the economy needs to be worked on or worse obamacare is suppose to fix are broken health care system. Oh the illegal immigrant problem that has been going on for decades guess that's not important.

Just because multiple problems exist, doesn't mean you can completely ignore one of them. Qorrying about the economy does not make it okay that children got shot in their school .

[Rhornez]

put on your tin foil hat, i heard from multiple places that sandy hook was planned, is it true? theres info out there about it will i believe it? idk maybe but i wont debate about it

[Glitch]

put on your tin foil hat, i heard from multiple places that sandy hook was planned, is it true? theres info out there about it will i believe it? idk maybe but i wont debate about it

That's a whole other thread. I'll start it up and post my own thoughts.

[Lucifargundam]

My stance here is not to ban guns but I don't care for much else pertaining to related issues. I'd rather not ban high-capacity magazines but I would agree it "could" prove to be at least a little bit effective(however insignificant it would be). No matter what is done, such tragedies would still occur but in an entirely different manner.         In short, we're scr330 either way.

I would like to point out I am not for gun bans but gun control. Which are two separate stances.

Why should you punish law abiding citizens when crimininals will still do what ever they want.

The criminals won't just do what they want

I could make a gun in my garage if I wanted to... yeah they can still do what they want.

As a gun owner for more than 10 years I've never harmed anyone and why should anyone care how many or what type of firearms I own. If I don't break the law or hurt anyone what harm am I doing if they are locked in my safe. Whether it be for target shooting, hunting, personal defense or hell I just want to stare at it and brag I have one who am I hurting I can spend my money on whatever I want. I don't tell you how to spend yours.

So you having the ability to brag about your guns makes okay that people get shot?
What if I wanted to own weapons grade plutonium? Should atomic weapons be available to everyone just because I claim not everybody will kill people with it?

The same logic with banning guns is with cars at this specific pinpoint. I haven't killed anyone with my car yet, so thus cars should not be banned.       BTW atomic weapons at this point are just used for political bluffs- no-one would ever actually use them. The point was made in WWII

Their is no way to imprint or mark bullets thats a pipe dream.

It's already been done. Specifically with laser etching. Each individual bullet would be marked and registered to a user. The only reason to be against this is if you plan to shoot somebody and not have the bullet traced back to you.

There's no point in etching or "lasering" anything into a bullet because it'll suffer damage once it hits something and it'd cost too much to mass-produce this type of bullet.

Look at chicago the most strict gun laws in the united states and they have the highest crime rate in the country, wonder why? How's that working out for them.

And I'm sure this would have nothing to do with poverty rate? You also seem contradict yourself by saying guns don't cause crime, but removing guns somehow causes more crime.

It's largely low-income or no-income individuals who get involved in gun-related crime.

Most people like me are tax paying citizens that not only pay sales tax on each firearm, and accessories we help keep workers in america employed that make guns and all the little odds and ends. Since most are still made right here in the US. But you never hear about that. Guess we should forget about those workers who will be let go.

Arms companies getting profits does not justify people dying. So if a company made poisonous gas, we should find a reason to gas people so that the company doesn't go out of business?

Guns aren't intended for crime, it's just the most convenient and way to accomplish something so aweful. Again, if somehow guns would be wiped off teh face of teh earth- people would still find a way to kill alot of people with ease. Guns are not the problem because murder has been around for a long time- since before guns existed.

Look if you don't like guns that's your right but don't go and take away my rights which are spelled out in the second amendment which says I have a right to bear arms.

The constitution also used to say you could own slaves. The constitution can be amended.
The second amendment was written during a time when Washington needed plenty of men to shoot at the British. He also believed that there shouldn't be a standing army and that our defense should have been made up of militias(thus the well regulated militia part). This was also a time when they were fighting with muskets.

The constitution could also be amended to get rid of chemicals- but should they? Of coarse not.

At my job I see people all the time with money with a high end watch, or expensive car do I tell them hey you don't need that. Your watch is overpriced for a item that tells time, or your car goes over 200 miles an hour their is not a road that allows you to go that fast so why even have it. That prick in the highend car has a higher risk of hurting or killing someone in public with his car by driving too fast thinking he is a race car driver than me who's guns only leaves home to go to the range.

Would you like to be Omish then? The standard of living is always changing and luxuries always become common amenities over time.

Their is no magic fix to all these shootings, but bans and harsh restrictions won't work. Even if these laws are passed their is already millions of guns out their that would be grandfathered and exempt. Ban magazines over 10 rounds guess what it takes .5 to 1 whole second to load another 10 rounder why a ban to save .5 seconds that is going to slow someone down.

It is true that there is no magic fix to crime, but you can make criminals less effective.
The Arizona shooter was tackled and beaten while reloading his gun. Which would have happened sooner had he not had a 30 round magazine. And why would anyone need a 30 round magazine? Do you expect 20 people to jump out of nowhere and attack you?

There is no point to being able to have a 1000000 round magazine. What, you're gunna turn that deer into ground beef before it hits the back of your truck? I agree with you here. Magazine size doesn't matter to responsible gun owners.

What a country that can waste time on laws that won't do a thing to prevent another Sandy hook incident when the economy needs to be worked on or worse obamacare is suppose to fix are broken health care system. Oh the illegal immigrant problem that has been going on for decades guess that's not important.

Would you rather the government enforce marshall law? I'd rather not...  Life is full of errors and mistakes- it's learning from them and the hard-efforted attempts of trying to make things better is what makes up for it. In the end, all we can do is our best while trying to do what's right/fair.

[dfens]

You can't imprint a bullet! Where are you going to mark it? Once it hits something whether it be living or non-living it's going to have pieces either separate or be flattened to a giant smooshed lump of lead and copper.

I think your thinking about when a few years ago they wanted each bullet fired the shell casing would have a serial number imprinted but the people pushing for this didn't realize that even if it was made available the imprinting die would wear out over time or criminals would just file it down so it doesn't work at all.

In the real world you don't know how many rounds you will need or how many attackers you're going to go up against. Not everyone is a crack shot and under stress even the best of us can still miss so the more rounds the better.

Plutonium are you kidding that stuff is unsafe even when stored you don't just knock it over and say don't worry it's all good like you could with a gun, I'm saying people should be able to own gernade launchers and missles etc.

Chicago no matter how poor their is a reason why it's so bad, hell even in Detroit the toilet of america has less violent crime why because you can not only own a gun you can carry one as well. So the criminals know that hey if I try to rob or attack someone I may get my stupid head blown off.

[Lucifargundam]

I couldn't really find something to describe my response efficiently enough but here's something similar::

Focus is mainly on the center frame