Badge Refund?

[EllaMit24]

Since the other person, who I paid for, will not be able to pick it up in person. And since apparently I cannot pick it up for them... how would one go about getting a refund for the badge?

I was not aware that this would be such a huge issue. I tried going back in and changing his name off it to my own, and I cannot. I tried finding a spot where I could cancel the order, or refund the badge, and there is nothing.

There is no phone number to talk to someone, only an email. I am wondering what is the best way to get that badge refunded because he won't be able to use it now.

[SpiritOfKairi]

Hate to tell you this, but the badges aren't refundable.  It's in the FAQs for buying badges, the terms and conditions part of the registration page, and it was also in the fine print when you purchased them.

[DangerHeart]

Yeah from what I know refunds aren't possible. But I'd say just email housing and explain your situation, I don't know if they could/would do anything about it but it never hurts to ask and make sure.

[Redman07]

Hate to tell you this, but the badges aren't refundable.  It's in the FAQs for buying badges, the terms and conditions part of the registration page, and it was also in the fine print when you purchased them.

Yes but what wasn't in the T&C is that you need to be there in person to pick up the badge.  This exact situation has occurred to my friend who was getting a badge for me, which I can not pick up.  This person and I are planning on speaking to a lawyer regarding this, as we do not believe this is legal.  On top of that the staff has been rather rude in dealing with us, which has made it into somewhat a personal matter.  Neither of us have any further intention of attending Fanime due to the rude treatment by the staff and the way they have been handling customer service.  The whole convention should probably be renamed to Scamime, because that's what this feels like.  Seeing that this has also happened to others is somewhat encouraging, because if we're right about this being illegal, this may turn into a class action lawsuit. 

[kyunaHARU]

ive had problems with registration this year. is there a phone number i could call if the site accidentally double charges me? thanks  :'(

[SpiritOfKairi]

Hate to tell you this, but the badges aren't refundable.  It's in the FAQs for buying badges, the terms and conditions part of the registration page, and it was also in the fine print when you purchased them.

Yes but what wasn't in the T&C is that you need to be there in person to pick up the badge.  This exact situation has occurred to my friend who was getting a badge for me, which I can not pick up.  This person and I are planning on speaking to a lawyer regarding this, as we do not believe this is legal.  On top of that the staff has been rather rude in dealing with us, which has made it into somewhat a personal matter.  Neither of us have any further intention of attending Fanime due to the rude treatment by the staff and the way they have been handling customer service.  The whole convention should probably be renamed to Scamime, because that's what this feels like.  Seeing that this has also happened to others is somewhat encouraging, because if we're right about this being illegal, this may turn into a class action lawsuit. 

That particular part about pick up might not have been in the T&C, but it was on the FAQ page.  There is a link to it right next to the T&C on the registration page and is also here http://forums.fanime.com/index.php/topic,18937.0.html.  I copied this directly from that page:

Pick-Up for Paid Online Registration Badges
Q: I can't make it to the hours of Registration- can I have a friend pick up my badge for me?

A: We do not allow other people to pick up other people's badges unless it is group registration and the leader picks up the badges.

I'm sorry you haven't had a good experience talking to the staff, however this information has been available since registration opened.

[Admiral Donuts]

Since the other person, who I paid for, will not be able to pick it up in person.

This exact situation has occurred to my friend who was getting a badge for me, which I can not pick up.

How  is someone attending the con unable to be there in person? Pre-reg badges can be picked up any day of the con, not just Thursday. They haven't announced times yet, but it should run from about 8 AM 'til sometime in the evening.

This person and I are planning on speaking to a lawyer regarding this, as we do not believe this is legal.

It's not illegal to deny refunds, and I have my doubts about a lawyer giving serious consideration to an amount as small as $55.

However, if you do want to pursue an actual complaint against FanimeCon, have a read of California DoJ Office of the Attorney General's info on refund policies. Your first step would be to "notify the consumer protection division of their local district attorney's office or by filing a complaint with the Attorney General's Office."

[kyunaHARU]

That particular part about pick up might not have been in the T&C, but it was on the FAQ page.  There is a link to it right next to the T&C on the registration page and is also here http://forums.fanime.com/index.php/topic,18937.0.html.  I copied this directly from that page:

Pick-Up for Paid Online Registration Badges
Q: I can't make it to the hours of Registration- can I have a friend pick up my badge for me?

A: We do not allow other people to pick up other people's badges unless it is group registration and the leader picks up the badges.

I'm sorry you haven't had a good experience talking to the staff, however this information has been available since registration opened

no offence but the faq link wasnt added into the t and c until recently, i think even today if im correct. i checked this morning to search up a phone number and all that was there was the no refunds statement. i am glad they finally linked it though, it really helps.

also for anyone having trouble with double charges like i did my bank actually went ahead and took off the additional charge off that was made in error so that is an option for anyone who is having trouble reaching the staff. most banks will do it if you have proof of double charge in your accounts. hope that helped anyone!!!! <3

[thepsynergist]

If you do sue them, be sure to do it in small claims court, and use a public lawyer.

[Hachimitsu]

Yeah I am kinda lost and confused myself here....

back in 2011 i had a group registration and I got my refund perfectly but ewu stated you cannot have a refund what-so-ever.
I really really think YOU CAN have a refund from them (but this was during a group registration).

as of now I am not even sure if people are committed on following these rules anymore. I noticed some people are posting signs for asking of free hugs, small protest outside... hell even people using wifi or charging their devices (even if they warn us not to use it and say please remove devices from sockets please, they still come back for it when your not looking)".
The dolly kart rules and wheels.. its understandable but sadly both swapmeet AND artist alley still brought karts with small wheels!

point is im saying is:: it is possible to have a refund, but the method I used was through group registration.
not to sound mean or anything but i really wish you good luck for the lawsuit, but sadly i don't think it's worth it O_O!.
my suggestion is try to contact registration but if they said no, then well.. lets just say we are all powerless to defend ourselves.

I really do wonder why "Fanime has a no refund policy"...

[KyraEnsui]

Hate to tell you this, but the badges aren't refundable.  It's in the FAQs for buying badges, the terms and conditions part of the registration page, and it was also in the fine print when you purchased them.

Yes but what wasn't in the T&C is that you need to be there in person to pick up the badge.  This exact situation has occurred to my friend who was getting a badge for me, which I can not pick up.  This person and I are planning on speaking to a lawyer regarding this, as we do not believe this is legal.  On top of that the staff has been rather rude in dealing with us, which has made it into somewhat a personal matter.  Neither of us have any further intention of attending Fanime due to the rude treatment by the staff and the way they have been handling customer service.  The whole convention should probably be renamed to Scamime, because that's what this feels like.  Seeing that this has also happened to others is somewhat encouraging, because if we're right about this being illegal, this may turn into a class action lawsuit.

For single registrations, only the person whose name is on the membership badge may pick it up from Registration.

If you are registered in a group, only your group leader may pick up the group's membership badges.

When you registered your badge, it was in your email confirmation too. I wonder if you actually READ the T&C or your email carefully because it has posted WAY before the registration was opened.

That's fine. Fanime is in May which means you had months in advance to decide on going or not even if paying the badge $10 more when the registration opened or pay more at the door. It's your decision and sadly, not everyone thinks of the consequences later. This works in retail too. They CAN deny refund especially when it states clearly on the receipt and signs. Just people don't bother reading it UNTIL much later. 

TBH, Thursday is not the only day, but all throughout the weekend, anyone can pick up their badge. I don't see how this can be a problem?

[Admiral Donuts]

Technical point: the receipt isn't a valid place to put a notice of "no refunds", since the consumer's already paid. But anyone wondering about the legality of refunds should read the following taken from California DoJ Office of the Attorney General's info on refund policies.

Consumers have come to expect stores or catalog companies to offer a refund, credit or exchange when they return items. Sellers are not required by law to accept returned items unless they are defective. However, California law requires that retailers who have a policy of not providing a cash refund, credit or exchange when an item is returned with proof of purchase within 7 days of purchase must inform consumers about their refund policies by conspicuously placing a written notice about their policies, in language that consumers can understand, so that it can be easily seen and read. Some companies may limit exchanges or returns for credit or refunds on all, or some products. Some may not allow exchanges or returns for credit or refunds at all. But whatever the limitation, it must be conspicuously disclosed. Before making a purchase, carefully check the store's policy.

The policy must be displayed either at each entrance to the store, at each cash register and sales counter, on tags attached to each item, or on the company's order forms, if any. A return policy printed only on a receipt, for example, is not sufficient.

I really do wonder why "Fanime has a no refund policy"...

Fanime works with very limited cash-in-hand. If they allowed refunds, they might not have enough funds to cover them.

[kyunaHARU]

kyraensui: i posted this earlier but yeh they only added that link to the t and c sometime yesterday probably cause of complaints. i even have a screenshot from a week ago for when i was saving all my fanime information. the only thing in the t and c was the no refunds policy there was no link to the forums with the rules. you DID get rules in your email but in order to get that email you have to pay first. i can understand why ppl were upset for sure.

admiraldonuts: if the funds are coming out of people say through their bank accounts reversing the transaction and refunding the account shouldnt be too difficult. fanime IS offering refunds as far as i know for accidental double charges and other mishaps that happen with the site. my friend got a refund the other day when she called and spoke to staff about an accidental over charge then they went back in a week later and re-charged her. she went to the bank like she told me to and basically said hey look i didnt authorize this additional transaction and the bank cancelled it no problem.

so even if fanime is very strict with refunds if you cancel through your bank account it doesnt really matter either way. no one gets paid. and most banks will take care of accidental overcharges and double charges. so even if fanime offers zero help those refunds CAN happen.

i can understand why the no refund policy should be strict but they need to make it easier for people who have issues with the site or for situations like my friends where they charged her AGAIN without her permission. i mean that just isnt nice. then again i think that counts as a double charge also lol.

ive been attending fanime since 08 and in the past they were definitely strict with their refunds but it was never this bad you know?

[ewu]

As I mentioned in the other thread, we track chargebacks and keep records on those that perform such actions.

[Kuudere]

I'm glad you're monitoring these chargebacks. I was worried that people would see this advice for a chargeback and immediately jump on it for a "refund" of their intentionally-purchased badge (meaning, not accidentally double charged, but a badge they bought and decided they didn't want for whatever reason). Chargebacks are meant as a last resort measure! This is in case of, for example, some person or business that is scamming you with unauthorized purchases or if you never received your purchased item (where the seller is at fault, not the buyer) and the other person is unwilling to settle the issue. It is a measure meant to protect consumers, not as a loophole. Using it as a way to get a refund on an intentionally-purchased badge which clearly stated that it was non-refundable is unethical and abusive to this type of consumer protection measure, not to mention abusive to Fanime's policies. If you're having issues, the problem should be addressed to Fanime staff, not by using a loophole that isn't even intended for this situation.

Again, if this wasn't clear, I'm referring to the potential people who will see this "advice" as a way to either A: score a free badge, or B: Get a "refund" on a clearly-stated non-refundable badge. I am not directing it toward people who were somehow double charged erroneously, although I'm willing to bet that the staff probably would help out in these situations.

[kyunaHARU]

As I mentioned in the other thread, we track chargebacks and keep records on those that perform such actions.

so? like i mentioned in the other thread as well if you were legitimately double charged and have proof on your accounts there is absolutely nothing wrong with getting the situation correct with however works best. if that happens to be the bank then so be it.

i think that con goers have a right to know ALL of their options in the event of a double or over charge. especially due to staff being rude or unhelpful like it has been with the people ive spoken with.

besides banks WONT remove the charges if there is no double charge or proof of error anyways so its not like this is a way for people to falsely remove badges. there just is no way, banks wont do it unless theres proof of a double/over charge.

for anyone thinking that it is a way to falsely remove a badge you are wrong wrong wrong. the banks will only assist in accidental double charges or over charges with proof of transaction in your account. hope this helps.

[kyunaHARU]

I'm glad you're monitoring these chargebacks. I was worried that people would see this advice for a chargeback and immediately jump on it for a "refund" of their intentionally-purchased badge (meaning, not accidentally double charged, but a badge they bought and decided they didn't want for whatever reason). Chargebacks are meant as a last resort measure! This is in case of, for example, some person or business that is scamming you with unauthorized purchases or if you never received your purchased item (where the seller is at fault, not the buyer) and the other person is unwilling to settle the issue. It is a measure meant to protect consumers, not as a loophole. Using it as a way to get a refund on an intentionally-purchased badge which clearly stated that it was non-refundable is unethical and abusive to this type of consumer protection measure, not to mention abusive to Fanime's policies. If you're having issues, the problem should be addressed to Fanime staff, not by using a loophole that isn't even intended for this situation.

Again, if this wasn't clear, I'm referring to the potential people who will see this "advice" as a way to either A: score a free badge, or B: Get a "refund" on a clearly-stated non-refundable badge. I am not directing it toward people who were somehow double charged erroneously, although I'm willing to bet that the staff probably would help out in these situations.

i dont understand how so many people misinterpreted my suggestion. its clearly obvious that banks will NOT refund unless they have proof of an accidental double charge. again, banks need PROOF of error before action. there is literally ZERO ways for you to falsify that information to scam to get a free badge or loophole.

even suggesting that there is is absolutely silly. as far as fanime staff goes yes that is always the action id recommend seeking out first. i am saying that for people who have had trouble reaching or dealing with the staff and those who like some of my friends are college students and dont have an extra 55 dollars in their accounts for a verifiably legitimate double charge can seek help thru their banks.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with knowing all of the options that you have. i would never suggest anyone scam fanime i am not that kind of person. i am a supporter of the con and have been since 2008 why would i post something that could be harmful??? besides as i already said there is ZERO zip nilch nada ways to scam the con by going to your bank as the bank will NOT help if you havent been double charged in some way. i mean sheesh you guys!  :'(

[Kuudere]

i dont understand how so many people misinterpreted my suggestion. its clearly obvious that banks will NOT refund unless they have proof of an accidental double charge. again, banks need PROOF of error before action. there is literally ZERO ways for you to falsify that information to scam to get a free badge or loophole.

even suggesting that there is is absolutely silly. as far as fanime staff goes yes that is always the action id recommend seeking out first. i am saying that for people who have had trouble reaching or dealing with the staff and those who like some of my friends are college students and dont have an extra 55 dollars in their accounts for a verifiably legitimate double charge can seek help thru their banks.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with knowing all of the options that you have. i would never suggest anyone scam fanime i am not that kind of person. i am a supporter of the con and have been since 2008 why would i post something that could be harmful??? besides as i already said there is ZERO zip nilch nada ways to scam the con by going to your bank as the bank will NOT help if you havent been double charged in some way. i mean sheesh you guys!  :'(

I was definitely not targeting you specifically with my response. It was more of a "if anyone's thinking of using this as a way around the rules, they should really reconsider." Which is a sentiment you appear to agree with.

As for your comment about banks not reversing charges unless they're double-charged...this may not be true in every situation. Banks are businesses and you are their customers. If removing a relatively small charge on a customer's account that they say shouldn't be there will make them happy, and they don't have a history of doing chargebacks, they may take their word for it and authorize it. If I went to my bank and said that I was falsely charged by Fanime and pressed the issue with them, I don't think I would have an issue getting it reversed. Banks reverse charges all the time in case of card theft, and sometimes it's just the word of the customer that they go by for that. I work in a department store where I, almost daily, take a loss to the customer's favor (taking, say, $55 dollars off an item is not too big of a deal) even when they are very, very wrong in thinking the item is mispriced, because of the whole "make the customer happy" approach we have. Banks are not very much different (in fact, many of my coworkers are poached by banks because they're already pretty well-trained in customer service). I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong...some banks may refuse a reverse charge, but I think there are definitely some banks that will keep their customer happy and side with them in minor disputes. Fanime is not their customer, you are.

Which is exactly why it is important to tell people that this is not an appropriate method to use for a refund on an intentionally-purchased badge. In that case, it is dishonest and it is abusing the system, because the goods paid for are not being refused to you. There are times when chargeback is appropriate, but in the two cases that I stated (getting a free badge or getting a refund on an intentionally-purchased badge when it was supposed to be non-refundable), it is most definitely not appropriate. I wish that I could say that posting such information would be harmless, but there ARE people out there who will look at this advice and use it to their advantage in bad ways. I've been in the customer service industry for long enough to know that if there is a known exploitation, there will definitely be people who use it. That's why, while you may be well-intentioned in your advice, it may actually do some damage, which is why they had to state that they'll be watching all chargebacks. And I certainly don't blame them for the precaution.

[sjamison1427]

Oh man! I hate to butt my way in here but I felt like making a contribution. I was browsing through the refund policies as I was wondering about if I have issues with my plane whatnot and I see that there is a no refunds policy which is good to know!

I work at Wells Fargo and our policy in regards to a customer disputing a charge for something like a "Double Charge" is to investigate the matter first. We don't just refund on the spot and we do need to see clear proof of transaction as well as substantial proof that the charge was in fact a duplicate.

Usually it is very easy to spot a genuine repeated charge as all the numbers and information will be pair identical and the time between them will be from a few seconds to a minute. Usually you get those from people who button smash the page refresh for an online transaction.

Even for those customers who are pushy over the matter, we make it a priority to first contact the seller/distributor when we suspect their claims are fraudlent. We make it a policy because at the bank we're here to protect businesses just as much as our customers. We don't lick the asses of every customer who walks in the door just because they bank with us just like a lot of businesses have the "Right To Refuse Service".

I am highly certain that there is no damage done, you guys really need to lighten up this is an Anime Convention hahaha. If the system was easy to abuse you would hear about it more often. Just my 2 cents!

   - Scott

[Kuudere]

Oh man! I hate to butt my way in here but I felt like making a contribution. I was browsing through the refund policies as I was wondering about if I have issues with my plane whatnot and I see that there is a no refunds policy which is good to know!

I work at Wells Fargo and our policy in regards to a customer disputing a charge for something like a "Double Charge" is to investigate the matter first. We don't just refund on the spot and we do need to see clear proof of transaction as well as substantial proof that the charge was in fact a duplicate.

Usually it is very easy to spot a genuine repeated charge as all the numbers and information will be pair identical and the time between them will be from a few seconds to a minute. Usually you get those from people who button smash the page refresh for an online transaction.

Even for those customers who are pushy over the matter, we make it a priority to first contact the seller/distributor when we suspect their claims are fraudlent. We make it a policy because at the bank we're here to protect businesses just as much as our customers. We don't lick the asses of every customer who walks in their door just because they bank with us just like a lot of businesses have the "Right To Refuse Service".

I am highly certain that there is no damage done, you guys really need to lighten up this is an Anime Convention hahaha. If the system was easy to abuse you would hear about it more often. Just my 2 cents!

   - Scott

I'm really happy to hear that Wells Fargo is thorough in their investigations for things like fraudulent charge claims. Unfortunately, it may be different at other banks. It's not really possible to know at this point whether there is a possibility for abuse, because banks can be different, but I think it still is important to mitigate people from attempting it. And if there were a way to abuse the system, usually it's not something that people flash around everywhere because then the loophole would be closed because it would be brought to the attention of those in charge.

Anyway, I do appreciate your reply! I truly do hope that all banks have similar processes, because I've heard some terrible stories business-side where banks favor their customers much more heavily than the businesses. It's nice to hear that that's not always the case.