shame on you, fanimecon, shame on you

Started by StalRizal, May 31, 2006, 12:52:02 PM

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StalRizal

First and foremost, I am not here to bite the hand that feeds me. I'm thankful for the event and enjoyed every minute of it...well almost. There was one situation that did bother me...

During the first three days of Fanimecon, there were a group of girls who were selling various kinds of homemade bread. They would wander the lines and the venues, offering a delicious snack to the hungry. Their proceeds were to go to charity and their prices were extremely fair. "What's so bad about that?", you ask. Nothing. What irks me is their treatment throughout the weeked by various Fanimecon staffers.

First and foremost, how are you going to yell at a 12 year-old to the point where she breaks down and cries? The girl was doing something extremely selfless. I mean, instead of enjoying the festivities, she was trying to provide a public service...at no personal monetary gain.

Also, yes, I understand it's a business and that you probably had an understanding with a food vendor, but even you can't deny that the food was wickedly over-priced. I mean, on one hand, we had some inexpensive homemade baked goods, and on the other, we had generic japanese food and ham sandwiches, both of which were priced with the knowledge that most of their customers would have a decent amount cash on hand. We are there to spend our hard-earned money on anime, manga and toys, not on $3 Cokes and $6 sandwiches.

"By the fans, for the fans" is the slogan you go by, but I really think you guys and gals forgot that when you started picking on the good people who were doing both the fans and charities a great service.

For those of you who actually took the time to talk to the "Bread Maids" and taste the bread made so well by their master chef (no really, she's a chef!), please back me up on this matter. Speak up and at least let the Fanimecon staff know that if the venue was "by the fans, for the fans", then they would ease up next year...or at least turn a blind eye (hint hint hint). Or better yet, offer them a booth =)

In the end, again, I'm not hating, I'm just extremely bothered by that one situation and how it played out.

Thanks for reading, thank you Fanimecon staff, thank you cosplayers and thank you to everyone who made this year's 'Con awesome. Finally, thanks to the woman who made the most awesome melon bread I have ever had.

LawyerGirl

I remember reading somewhere in the program (or on the site) that people are not to sell things in the hallways at Fanime.    Whether the proceeds go to charity or not, the girls you're talking about violated that rule.  If they wanted to give to charity, they could have dropped non-perishable food off in the Second Harvest food bins.

Staff may seem harsh at times, but they're working on very little sleep and dealing with some bad behavior on the part of a few attendees.  Heck, I was only a volunteer, but by the end of the con I was so sleep-deprived, exhausted, and short-tempered that I could hardly recognize myself.

So, while conceptually I feel for the bread-sellers, they shouldn't be treated any differently than anyone else.  The rules are there for a reason, you know?  If con food is too expensive for you, then walk down the street for more affordable fare like I and many others did.

Tony

I'm of two minds. They definitely should not have been doing that, and they definitely needed to be stopped. But they shouldn't have been made to cry, either.

It's not just the money; there's real liability issues. We can ease up (and I think we should), but turning a blind eye is a huge no-no, and offering them a booth is a near impossibility. When we can't get starbucks to stay open a little longer so that they can get stinking rich off of our members, there's little hope for reason...
Retired.
Tyrannical Board Admin, 2003-2015
Webmaster, 2003-2007
Head of MusicFest, which has the best damn staff out there, 2005-2008
Convention Chair, 2009-2011
Director of Guest Relations, 2012
Something with Guest Relations, 2013
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pchan

Hmm... do you realize what kind of trouble these girls could have gotten the Con in?  There are several state and/or county codes, if violated, come with a hefty fines.  I have worked/participated in several different craft fairs and even the smallest fair, the food vendor(s) must have a food safety certificate, among other things (and that includes non-profit chartable, too).

On the other hand, it is sad to hear that one did break down and cried. I understand these girls thought they were doing something really cool and charitable but all they had to do was check with the Con first and get clearance (from the Con).

Hopefully, next year if they choose to attend, they will check with the Con first and all will be well. And we’ll have yummy treat to eat, too. :wink:

Pimpstress Rei

I really hope that you know that not all staff are as mean as that. We're all volunteers and some of us can't handle the stress as others. It's true that the member was doing a good service, but again, there are rules to be upheld. It's hard to say "well just this once..." then keep the rules rigid for everyone else. If you believe that that particular staffer was being unreasonable, all you have to do is get their badge number and report them to ConOps.

We're trying to put on a con with our own time, using a lot of our own resources, so please try to understand we're doing our best. We're not trying to screw anyone over with prices of things and intentionally treating our members badly. There are a lot of logistics that the members don't see, so please keep that in mind when you criticize us.

If you truly feel that we have done wrong, then please write a calm e-mail with exact evidence of what happened and we'll try to work on it. But remember that we're doing our best, but if you're not satisfied, you don't have to attend Fanime if you dislike our services that much.
Marie F.
Vice-Chair 2009-2011
Assistant Director of Marketing 2008
Publications Manager 2006, 2007
Con Mom forever o.O

Zain

That's some well written feedback, StalRizal. Thanks for not being hostile about your complaint.

But, really, the Fanime staff has no choice other than to shut her down. Not only was she violating a whole book of laws, she was taking profit away from the dealer's room, the artist's alley, and all the other food venues around the con. I know it sounds silly, but if we don't have a zero tolerance policy on soliciting, we will start losing dealers and you'll start seeing the live version of spam everywhere. Of course, that's all petty compared to the fact that if the convention center staff were to report us, the fines would be great enough to where FanimeCon would cease to exist.

As for the rudeness... Yeah, it sucks, but let me give you a story to explain to you where we're coming from. You probably saw the chick selling Naruto headbands around the con. Well, I saw her, and I stopped her and gave her a (polite) warning about how she wasn't allowed to do that. She responded with defiance, saying "I'm just cosplaying as a merchant." Then she asked me how she could get a seller's permit to sell those, and when I told her, she accused me of lying and stormed off. Later on, I found out she was still selling the wares, even after being warned by multiple other staff and dealers. At one instance, she even named me and said that I told her it was OK to sell it. And she even had the nerve to sit down at an empty table in the Dealer's room and act like a dealer. All she had to do was pay ten bucks and no one would've bothered her in the Artist's Alley, but instead, she wasted hours of the staff's time and tested their patience to the limit.

So, in short, some of the staff get a little tired of it and their temper might get short. Still, their actions are in no way justified, and if you took down the staff member's badge number, they would be reprimanded.
2007 Staff (Facilities, IT, Website, Publications)

Chevi

No wonder I didn't see them again after the first 2 days.  Honestly, I was in the artist alley the whole time and it was my first con.  Those bread maids REALLY helped out us starving artists who couldn't get up from their seats and get food.

Oopymmas2

I thought that those bread maids were cute, but I understand where the Fanime con staff members are coming from, because well, even if they did mean well, it is a liability. Also, by letting them continue to sell, even if it was for a good cause, it could cause the people in the artists alley, or the dealer's room, where they actually payed for a booth to feel unfair, and possibly get pissed off enough to not come back next year, and that would be a very bad thing.

Nyxyin

I read my program guide.  Page 23, item 7 says, "No selling food within the convention center or the hotels except those food services that have been cleared by Fanime.  A written agreement will be provided to the head of facilities along with a sales permit and business license prior to the starting of such operations."  I agree it's really nice what the bread maiden was doing, but for the program guide to say something like that, there's probably some unreasonably strict laws or major legal problems involved in selling food.

I wonder if there are loopholes in which she could give away the food for free and then accept small tips from those who feel like donating a little something in return?  There can't possibly be rules against voluntarily giving away food or money, can there?

Kazuko

x: well im half on half on this, to me the bread maiden did a generous thing by offering tasties to us all :3 (even though i never bought any D: )

but then there is a saftey issue and its the con policy not to sell food unless its cleared by fanime. since one may never know if the food could cause something hazardous to another person. Im not saying the bread maiden would ever do that but its just a percaution incase something like that does happen.

x: and maybe the staff that yelled at her was cranky that day since they get very little sleep.

Nyxyin

Quote from: "Kazuko"and maybe the staff that yelled at her was cranky that day since they get very little sleep.
I wasn't there, so I have no idea if the staff person was out of line or not, but as a girl, I find it possible that there was just no way for any staff person, no matter how nice, to say no without evoking tears.

If I were the bread maiden, I think I would've cried no matter how nice the Fanime staff person was trying to be.  After pouring her soul into making the bread that she wants to share, after all the effort that went into planning out and preparing everything, after all that hard work is over and before people get to enjoy the fruits of her labor, she's told that it can't happen.  All the excitement over the great idea, all the anticipation, all that work... all wasted, all squashed.  No matter how nicely the staff member tried to phrase it, they still have to say no, and that's gotta hurt.  A lot.  I'm not the bread maiden, and even I'm ready to cry just thinking about it.  ;_;

I don't know if there was any way for things to have worked out well.  If the give-away/accept-tips loophole would've worked, maybe a third party passing by could've suggested it, but it would make sense that Fanime staff can't exactly suggest loopholes themselves.  In the end, when something reaches the size of Fanime (I heard there were 10,000 attendees?), there has to be rules because laws go into effect.  Something like the bread maiden would've worked well for a 30-person anime club gathering in a park or something, but Fanime is well past that point.

fanartist

I suppose she could have given bread to people who had donated a certain amount of money.

Hey, if it's loopholes you want, I'll look for them :twisted:

Oopymmas2

Loop holes in rules are not hard to find at all.

Eurobeat King

Quote from: "Chevi"Those bread maids REALLY helped out us starving artists who couldn't get up from their seats and get food.

Not to mention helping out starving photographers who are all over the convention center taking pictures who couldn't leave to get food.  :oops:  To TJ and Michelle, your delish ham & egg & cheese sandwich saved myself and Lionel from starving after a busy Friday up to that afternoon! *hug*
"Freedom is the right of all sentient cosplayers."

Akito Starwind

The next is a cheap way of saying why the laws there.----->yes as soon as you Charge for a item, the owner of the land your standing on wonders where's my share of that money. So to stop others from making money on your land. you say no selling unless you have a permet. that way the owner gets money. <--thats the basic red neck way of stating it... But if they where free then i dont belive there is any legal Problem of food. and if there is. it would be on the one taking it. not giving. For the one giving it had it untill it was out of the hands. but when the person receving it has it, he/she can pick to hold it or eat it. then the center can get you for having eating outside food inside the building. I dont care about the laws that are all about Making Money because we made a law saying thats how it should be.<--- thats just me though.... I do hope everyone liked the free Chessbergers and Mc checkens i gave out at the con. it was about 11:30 at night.
Dealers Room Staff 2004
Dealers Room Staff 2005
Dealers Room Staff 2006
Dealers Room Staff 2007
Dealers Room Staff 2008

milkmandan

since the matter has been discussed as seen above
i think we should think about how things like this can be prevented in the future.

i personally believe and think fanimecon should be a closed event. you pay to get in and you pay to enjoy all the festivites.

most of you probably noticed, but you could enjoy practically the ENTIRE con, except for the major events, dealers room, game room and artist room.  most if not all viewing rooms and panels were un guarded by staff. except for hentai nights.  everything else was accessable to the PUBLIC.  i had people who weren't registered at the con in a viewing room asking me, what type of convention this was. O_O

I am sure these girls who sold bread were registered.  So maybe in the future you can post the RULES on the pre-registration paper that everyone needs to bring.  and /or make them read it. thus if something like this happens and someone is obviously breaking a rule (wether for a good cause or not) the staff will have the appropriate authority to deal with it.

i do feel bad for the girl that ended up crying.  I dont know what went on and/or what talk would have prompted her to cry but none the less i am very sure there was a massive miscommunication, the staff that handled the situation probably was un-informed and didn't know how to correctly and nicely deal with such situtation. there are city rules for handing out food i hear. and neither of them probably knew that.

Zain

There was someone else selling something (non-edible, don't remember what it was)... And that's exactly what they did. They changed their sign from "Selling ___ for $x" to "___ for free, tips appreciated."

But, the problem is, you can't do that with food. You need a permit from the city to give away, sell, handle, or otherwise get anywhere near someone else's food. Even if she was giving them away for free, we would have to shut her down. Besides, there's no way she would make money, because otakus are cheap and would never donate, they'd just take for free  :P
2007 Staff (Facilities, IT, Website, Publications)

kam_islash

Those adorable bread sellers...
With the yummy noodle rolls...
Were...
being....
Mistreated??????

:: gets pissed off and turns super saiyan ::

There is one thing I do not tolerate, and that is cruelty to defenseless girls!!!

I'm going to raise high hell with the staff at the next meeting...and nobody's gonna stop me from making sure they get indicted for harrassment, verbal child abuse, and Guro pushing!
I want to express this undying passion with my entire body tonight.

FanFicGuru

Quote from: "milkmandan"since the matter has been discussed as seen above
i think we should think about how things like this can be prevented in the future.

i personally believe and think fanimecon should be a closed event. you pay to get in and you pay to enjoy all the festivites.

most of you probably noticed, but you could enjoy practically the ENTIRE con, except for the major events, dealers room, game room and artist room.  most if not all viewing rooms and panels were un guarded by staff. except for hentai nights.  everything else was accessable to the PUBLIC.  i had people who weren't registered at the con in a viewing room asking me, what type of convention this was. O_O

I am sure these girls who sold bread were registered.  So maybe in the future you can post the RULES on the pre-registration paper that everyone needs to bring.  and /or make them read it. thus if something like this happens and someone is obviously breaking a rule (wether for a good cause or not) the staff will have the appropriate authority to deal with it.

i do feel bad for the girl that ended up crying.  I dont know what went on and/or what talk would have prompted her to cry but none the less i am very sure there was a massive miscommunication, the staff that handled the situation probably was un-informed and didn't know how to correctly and nicely deal with such situtation. there are city rules for handing out food i hear. and neither of them probably knew that.

This should probably go in another thread, but I agree that I don't feel that the $45 really went towards much of anything besides access to the dealers room and AMV contest (for me).
Fanime attendee since 2004
Swap meet staff - 2014
Swap meet co-chair - 2015

milkmandan

Quote from: "kam_islash"Those adorable bread sellers...
With the yummy noodle rolls...
Were...
being....
Mistreated??????

:: gets pissed off and turns super saiyan ::

There is one thing I do not tolerate, and that is cruelty to defenseless girls!!!

I'm going to raise high hell with the staff at the next meeting...and nobody's gonna stop me from making sure they get indicted for harrassment, verbal child abuse, and Guro pushing!
i am not a staff member, but i understand how things work and maybe the process of accepting GOOD staff members should be a little more watched over instead of just accepting anyone that wants to be staff.
perhaps maybe an interview with higher standards?  i see a lot of people become staff for events like these..yes they are fans but as a person, do they really have the ability to respectfully represent FanimeCon as a business and not just a bunch of fan people working together.

i realize my posts dont add to the fuel and/or try to explain what happened, but rather my posts are geared towards correcting a problem that might occur again in the future.

This thread is probably not the right place, but oh well, i'll add it to the feedback thread later.