FanimeCon 2007 General Comments and Criticisms Thread.

[PyronIkari]

Also, no offense Mikey, but how hard is it for your panel to be a 'success' when the main point of it is for people to get together and swear and rant about the idiots that roam the interwebz? Doesn't seem terribly complex. My friends went and had a good time though so, hoorah.

N'ah, that would be the anime boston 4chan panel where it was an hour of people shouting memes at each other. We had real content, and things that made it a real panel. Because for the most part, we didn't rant about idiots at all, we talked about the culture.

[Xeluu]

Personally I didn't see people getting glomps or hugs when they didn't, it was very respectful.

I also don't think we should ban ALL glomping for the mistakes of the few. That's like banning the Rave because people get intoxicated on alcohol or whatever and break their leg on the dance floor. I mean heck the rave itself was shut down for awhile...so by your "No Glomping Policy" you should want to ban the Rave to since it's apparently such a danger. :roll:

*snipsnip*

Actually, I'm more for a rule along the lines of "If you don't ask before glomping (maybe hugging, but that wasn't a problem) you get a warning." Or just have something stating that if you want glomps you need to wear a sign. x_X Mudkipz didn't mind the hugs, it was the surprise glomp(s) that were bad.

[alkaline]

Also, no offense Mikey, but how hard is it for your panel to be a 'success' when the main point of it is for people to get together and swear and rant about the idiots that roam the interwebz? Doesn't seem terribly complex. My friends went and had a good time though so, hoorah.

N'ah, that would be the anime boston 4chan panel where it was an hour of people shouting memes at each other. We had real content, and things that made it a real panel. Because for the most part, we didn't rant about idiots at all, we talked about the culture.

We also had a lot more people show up the second night when compared to the first and it was mainly due to word of mouth. Why? Because it wasn't (like Mikey said) like other "4chan panels" where people just screamed "jokes" at one another. We put on a production, we had a program, we stuck with it and people loved it.

Also, the next time you try and belittle the work of those putting on panels for Fanime? Try attending it first.

[LordKefka]

It's a task for anyone to go up in front of people and talk as it takes some effort and guts regardless of how easy it many seem.

[IamTetsuo]

My thoughts on the con:

+ Wonderfull people.  For the most part everyone I met were people I would love to hang out with all the time.  I did notice some very creepy people wondering around, but thankfully my creep-radar is in full working order so I easily avoided them.

+Black and White ball.  I'll admit it, when I first heard you guys were seriously going to do this my thought was "That's a stupid idea, nobody will have fun dancing to ballroom."  But as it turns out it was one of the most fun events of the con for me (this is probably in part due to the great company I had for the dance).  Next year bigger room, and emphasize the mask part, I felt kind of silly being one of the few people actually wearing a mask.

+ Con Volunteers.  For the most part the con volunteers were very nice, especially the security at the concerts.  Sorry I didn't get to see my volunteer friend from elementery (thinking back on it that was a LONG time ago...) more than once, but she was very busy as was I.

+ Great variety of things to do.  I never had a moment where there wasn't something for me to do.  There was actually TOO much stuff, I missed out on what sounded like some great things.  But I had fun anyways.  Now if you guys can just figure out someway so that all the attendees could stay up for the entire con without getting sleepy...

OK now on to the few things I didn't like:

- No backdrop on the con floor for photoshoots.  I was looking forward to using the white backdrop that you guys had last year for some of my shoots.  Oh well I made do with shooting outside.

-Too much Yaoi.  I understand that some people like that stuff, but a lot of us don't.  Having several dealers of only Yaoi stuff seems a little over kill.

-Too little variety in the dealers room.  All the dealers seemed to be selling pretty much the same stuff.  There were a couple of dealers with some great stuff, but for the most part it was just Bleach and Naruto knick knacks.

-The rave.  Now don't get me wrong, I had a ton of fun at the raves, but that was mainly due to great company.  DJ Stormy on Saturday really rocked, however DJ Caen did a terrible job of transitioning between songs, meaning he(she?) didn't transition between songs.  So the entire dance stopped for a beat while everyone wrapped their heads around the new beat.  The music selection was pretty spot on at least (there were a couple of songs that I didn't like, but that's normal).

I blame Ebner for all of this by the way.  ITS ALL YOUR FAULT EBNER. JEEZ WHY YOU GOTTA BE THAT WAY?!    :D  :P  :wink:

All in all it was a great con!  It seemed like people were having some problems in the video rooms but it seemed like people in the audience managed to help solve the problems somewhat.  I don't really know as I hardly watched any video the entire con.  If you guys need help training for Macs I'd be more than willing to help the video staff out (yes I'm the same IamTetsuo as on the animesuki forums).

I will definatly be attending again next year, as long as whatever job I get allows me enough time off.

[FanFicGuru]

Also, no offense Mikey, but how hard is it for your panel to be a 'success' when the main point of it is for people to get together and swear and rant about the idiots that roam the interwebz? Doesn't seem terribly complex. My friends went and had a good time though so, hoorah.

N'ah, that would be the anime boston 4chan panel where it was an hour of people shouting memes at each other. We had real content, and things that made it a real panel. Because for the most part, we didn't rant about idiots at all, we talked about the culture.

We also had a lot more people show up the second night when compared to the first and it was mainly due to word of mouth. Why? Because it wasn't (like Mikey said) like other "4chan panels" where people just screamed "jokes" at one another. We put on a production, we had a program, we stuck with it and people loved it.

Also, the next time you try and belittle the work of those putting on panels for Fanime? Try attending it first.

I attended it last year for about 15 minutes before the idiocy drove me out.

That's why I assumed this year was no different, but alas, it seems that it is more than I thought.

Perhaps next year I'll give it another shot.

[Ekac]

As for the 'elevator police', the Elevator Ninjas are more than welcome to apply for staff. =P

Sadly, all of the Elevator Ninjas [so far] are underage, and I don't know if a Waiver applies to ninjas.  :roll:

[PyronIkari]

I attended it last year for about 15 minutes before the idiocy drove me out.

That's why I assumed this year was no different, but alas, it seems that it is more than I thought.

Perhaps next year I'll give it another shot.

And... that was my point. We took all of the negative feedback we got from the first panel, and then used that to make things this year(which blew it out of the water). Hence my point that... "YOU LISTEN TO YOUR AUDIENCE, THEN IMPROVE" instead of just getting pissed off that people are saying negative things and stating that they are wrong for thinking that.

[Aya Brea]

Pro: Pre-registration for Swap Meet Friday!  
Exhibit Hall was very nice
Host Hotel Hilton was superb

Con:
Sign Ban... not enforced.  Solicitation is still illegal, right?  Even more disturbing if they look underage x_X
I'm not into people pouncing each other in public spaces (even if both players are into it).... do it at Mascarade or at a panel so not one else gets hurt and you're not making a spectacle and crowding up a walkway
Cosplay Gatherings... same location, 4 different versions of the name on the schedule makes for lost photographer ;_;  
People manning doors needs to know the hours for the room (exhibit hall, for example)
Artist Colony table pre-registration was a mess

[Casull]

Oh, the Mudkip lady?  You were one of the highlights of the con, and I'm sorry to hear you got glomped badly.

[Raydere]

Sign ban?

[felicity869]

By any chance do you remember which four films you and your friends watched? I'm just trying to get a better feel of what people checked out on our schedule.

Umm...the Honey & Clover live action is the only one I remember the name of off the top of my head. We watched a bunch of sappy dramas  :D

[Dagger-6]

Sadly, all of the Elevator Ninjas [so far] are underage, and I don't know if a Waiver applies to ninjas. Rolling Eyes

Ninja your way into staff? =P  Just show up at a staff meeting and when people ask "Hey, wait who are you?" Just be like *poof* and dissapear.

But yeah, you would need a waiver if you're under 18.  Rovers will use people under 18 these days though.  You just won't be assigned to do certain things...so no hentai room patrol.  :wink:

Sign Ban... not enforced. Solicitation is still illegal, right? Even more disturbing if they look underage x_X

We weren't told anything about a complete ban on signs as far as I know.  The policy was signs were okay as long as they do not ask for food, money, donations, etc.  We cracked down a bit more on this....sunday if I recall correctly.  People were fairly compliant once we let them know, tearing off or sharpie-ing out the violating portions of their signs.

I remember there was one group of people with a keyboard and a cup in front of them, and when I told them they couldn't accept tips, they were like..."Oh, this is my sister's money in the cup" and I'm just thinking to myself..."Who keeps money in a cup?'  They eventually removed it though.

I'm just trying to get a better feel of what people checked out on our schedule.

For the Asian Film room, I wanted to check out Silmido and The Host, although I didn't get a chance to.  Too busy working. Q_Q  My friend who was at Cannes recommended 200 Pound Beauty also, but that was after the con ended and I would've probably been working then also. =P

[Raydere]

-Too much Yaoi.  I understand that some people like that stuff, but a lot of us don't.  Having several dealers of only Yaoi stuff seems a little over kill.

I definitely agree on that. I don't buy yaoi or yuri, but it strikes me odd that there is practically no yuri dealers at Fanime. It makes yuri seem quite unacceptable and not simply the female equivalent of yaoi.

[billgoku]

-Too much Yaoi.  I understand that some people like that stuff, but a lot of us don't.  Having several dealers of only Yaoi stuff seems a little over kill.

I definitely agree on that. I don't buy yaoi or yuri, but it strikes me odd that there is practically no yuri dealers at Fanime. It makes yuri seem quite unacceptable and not simply the female equivalent of yaoi.

I agree with you one that, I said myself there should be a yuri booth, it deserves the same appreciation that yaoi gets which as said was over kill.

[Tenba]

I said myself there should be a yuri booth, it deserves the same appreciation that yaoi gets which as said was over kill.

Something that came up during the feedback session after the closing ceremonies is that yaoi is an actual genre with an actual definition in Japan, while yuri is not. If that's true (and I have no idea if it is or not), then that might explain why there would be things like yaoi doujinshi but not yuri doujinshi.  Just a thought.

[PyronIkari]

mmm... This sorta makes sense, but not in the sense your putting it.

I sell doujinshi for a company so lemme explain.

Much like the base fandom, things are seperated into girls/boys style things. The category of "Yaoi" isn't a real category, but used because it's easier for (stupid) Americans to differentiate between girls comics and guy comics. Especially when dealing with ero-doujin. At Anime-Expo especially we usually separate into "Guy Comics" and "Yaoi" because "Girl comics" is sometimes misleading. We also have people bitch about how "Hey, I'm a girl, and I like comics like this, why are you separating them!".

Frankly, American usage of "Yaoi" bothers me because rarely is it used correctly.

But as a point, there isn't *THAT* much comparatively, because any "normal" comic is the opposite of "Yaoi". Though to be honest... why complain that there's "Too much yaoi" it's not like you're buying it. There's a big market for it, and that's why it's there.

And just to be picky... technically lesbian ero is also "Yaoi". Boys love or Shounen Ai is the correct term you should be using.

[angeljibrille]

Just not worth discussing. Removed by author.

[PyronIkari]

Um... having been to Comike multiple times, and being someone who regularly corresponds with my doujinshi artist friends in Japan... it -IS- called yaoi, and yaoi is almost always associated with "boys love". However, yaoi is almost strictly a doujinshi term, usually for explicit "boys love" books, and it doesn't mean "gay" per se. A lot of publishers do not use it, they use "Boys Love" instead -- but it's definitely used for doujinshi.

The term Yaoi was a description of books, not necessarilly boys love nor content. "No climax, no punchline, no meaning".
Meaning, the doujinshi had no climax, no punchline, and no meaning. It originated as a derogative description of "terrible doujinshi". Many simple boys love comics fell into this category. Comics that would build a pointless relationship between two male characters, with nothing happening at all in the end(sex or otherwise). Ending on a pointless note.

This later got pushed onto boys love comics in general as a bad description, which again... many people in the US misused(like they do with every god damned Japanese word... hentai... otaku... etc.) the world thinking that it meant only male-male comics without knowing about origins of words. Essentially It's misused a lot, but in Japan they tend to stick with "Boys Love" when refering to anything with male-male relations.

How do I know? I personally do not like yaoi, I'm more of a "normal pairings" fan (what they call it in Japan, not a judgement) and so I will ask an artist about a book and if it is yaoi... they call it yaoi.

Every shop I have seen doesn't label there comics "yaoi" as a description. The ones that do have "US sections online". For the most part, especially at comiket, people know circle/artist/day they are going on so they know what to look for and what each booth is. If it's a new booth, it's rather impolite to ask something such as "Is this yaoi" or the such.

Yuri, on the other hand, is not a term I usually hear from anyone. It's usually just "Hen" or "Hentai" for porn, which includes anything that over here in the US would be thought of as "yuri". Girls Love books, such as Utena, or Oniisama e, which feature girl pairings in a romanticized way is relatively rare in Japan, and instead of being referred to by a term -- it's usually just desginated by the pairings and mixed in with the normal and yaoi sections at Comiket.

Uhm... Japanese people do not use the word "hentai" for pornography. It has never ever been used to describe pornography in Japan, and it has US origins because people mistaken the word and it was overly used. The "normal" comics would be described simply as "Doujinshi" or "Ero-doujinshi" or "Over 18 doujinshi".

Yuri's origins are that it was an off balance for "Rose".　Roses was a common symbol for homosexual males.

If homosexual males are ROSES then homosexual females are ______.

So they came up with "Lily/lillies". But again, it's used incorrectly in the US because people in the US do not understand word origins and correct usage of words.

So.. I wouldn't get too huffy about it. :) People use it fairly accurately over here, but they don't pronounce it properly :O

Edit: PS -- lesbian ero is NOT yaoi...

Uh... no, rarely do people use it correctly. "Will Yaoi for pocky" does not make sense. "I would so yaoi him"... does not make sense. Yaoi isn't a verb.

I could argue that most ero-doujin are pointless but it's an effort I don't want to make. If you want though, come by my booth at AX, there will be many people that work in the doujinshi business there. A rather popular long time artist, some who have bought/sold/traded doujinshi since the mid 80's, and myself, the simple salesman that's been doing this for a while.

But back to the main point of all this. Boys love comics sell... very well. On average about 40% of our sales at AX every year are boys love comics, about 40% are regular ero-doujinshi and the last 10 are misc. things like shirts or pvc's and the such. In general Boys love sales would out do the other doujin if not that there's usually a few people that buy a LOT of ero-doujin, but there are more that will pick up a few boys love doujin.

[otakuapprentice]

... and getting royally honked at the "no sleeping at the con" rules and the hawks enforcing it.

Usually, I'll see some enforcement, but it was clear to me that it was Priority Number One Point of Emphasis made to security this year that the moment it became apparent that someone passed out anywhere, they were to be immediately rousted.

And even when I was awake, it was like "DAMN!!!  That's the third time this episode I've seen that burly security geek come through the room like that."

its a convetion center, not a hotel. i worked volunteers this year, and i saw more than enough people trying to sleep in the video rooms this year; i even saw two people walk into the hentai room with a blanket and a couple of pillows, in which they then started to reorganize the chairs into a makeshift bed. knowing this is not supposed to happen, i advised them that they cant sleep in there, and asked them not to try or rovers would be called to deal with it.

I'm not going to pay $120/night for a hotel room that I'm literally going to have to be taken to in handcuffs by con security (if not the SJPD) to use.  Because that basically costs me 12-18 hours of the con right there.  Multiply it by two nights (much less the three!), and there goes any real need for the four-day pass.

if you dont want to have to pay that much for a room, try sharing a room with others so you dont have to pay as much cash; thats what i did, and i only paid $70...for the whole weekend.

Look, I'll say it a third time (I said it once to the info desk when I saw one of the most ridiculous pairs of contradictory statements I've ever seen at a con, and the second was to the four people who escorted me out at 5:30 AM Monday):

YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE SLEEPING AT THE CON, SHUT THE CON DOWN AT 2 AM OR SOMESUCH.  (And not reopen until 9-10 AM, like they did Sat. morning at ALA this year when there were only two people in the screening room at 2:30 -- one asleep and the other (me) fighting it off the best I could.)

(And before I get questions on that:  Yaoi/Yuri/Hentai/Madness/Anarchy would be moved up to about 9-10 PM.  I'd even go so far as to make the room that the Yaoi-Con people use a Kid's Room during the day.  All marathons have their own room anyway.  You've already moved up the dances and the karaoke such that the only thing left at 2-3 AM is the screenings.)

even if the con was shut down at 2am, it doesnt stop people from being out and about. also, hentai/yuri/yaoi nights are started at midnight due to the fact that its stuff that wouldnt normally be shown in the day/evening time, because its so controversial/risque/stuff that would get people in trouble for showing it at a time when there are a few tikes out with the parents.

another reason why you/me/no one can sleep in the video rooms, or anywhere in the convention center is because it conflicts with possible fire codes, plus someone could easily do stuff to anyione sleeping in the video rooms, which would probably cause a lawsuit to come into play, either against the con center or fanime itself, which then leads to more enforcement and more complaints. its a simple rule to follow: dont sleep in the con center: easy as that.

I could come up with several other possibilities if you like (that's basically what I spent a lot of time doing from about Saturday on):

1) Require con-goers to get hotel reservations before they can get a full-con pass.

2) Go the Naka-Con approach:  Get rousted once, and that's your one warning.  Second one costs you the convention.  (With that, I'd have been tossed 7 AM Saturday.)  You do that, I'm gone -- but it's a possibility for the con itself.

3 -- a variation of 1) If you're not willing to show accomodations, you can't stay past midnight.  It would require a separate set of badges to be made, but still.

theres are all legitimate ideas, but they dont work; main reason they dont work are as follows:

#1 cant be done since there are some people that live very close to the con (close to 10-15 minutes away from the con and they could just go home for the night) wouldn't need to get a hotel room, or some people dont want to pay for a room and rather commute;

#2 could work, but its too unfair to those that get blamed accidentaly because someone wants to point the finger at them when they didnt do anything and the person pointing the finger is actually the one that did it (that was simply an example);

#3 is too complicated to do, and would require paperwork that would simply take up resources and time/manpower. having to have a separate badge that states that you have a hotel room would once again be unfair to those that live close by or commute.

all in all, they are very good ideas, but too many complications involved with them, since there would be complaints from many people saying that its 'unfair', 'silly', and the like. fanime is too big to do this, and it would simply complicate matters more.