FanimeCon 2007 General Comments and Criticisms Thread.

[PyronIkari]

Of course I'm the one that is misinterpereting logical reasons and not believing in something that you want to believe to be true because it makes you look better.

Sorry, no dice. I've explained it how it works. I've explained the scenario you would like to believe you're in, and the actual you are in. Funny thing is, you're the one taking more offense at this than you should. I never said you were this terrible person or anything, just merely stating that you are seeking attention(which you cannot deny since you said you were disappointed that you didn't get attention).

I merely just stated, you shouldn't feel that way. You're not whoring yourself out like a lot of cosplayers do, but you are still focusing on something you shouldn't.

In simpler terms "Don't let it get to you that people don't know who you are, or aren't giving you attention, just be happy with yourself".

Of course I could have worded it that way, but then others wouldn't have thought about it from the other perspective I gave and reflected upon themselves in the same way... ala "Am I an attention whore?".

While I've never cosplayed someone I didn't know, couldn't it be seen as a sign of respect to the character designer to cosplay a character even if you don't know much about them?  It's like saying "Wow this design is so cool, I want to cosplay it even if I can't read/watch/play."

Nope, because that's only caring about appearances and not giving a damn about the character as a whole. Think about it this way. If the creator of the character came up to you and said "Wow I'm glad you like my character, what are your favorite parts about that character"... what would you say?

"Oh I don't know anything about the character other than how it looks!"

How would you think it'd feel for him, that you've cheapened the character to only it's appearance?

If the costume was bad or you did a very minor character, I'd understand. Chrono is a very important main character in Nanoha... and the sprite is the staple character of the Atelier series. It's like stating you're a fan of Final Fantasy and not knowing what a chocobo is.

[Keys]

(By the way, unless you want specifics, here is how I make my costumes- I make it up as I go. @_@)

Yeah, I like talking about people's costumes in person so you can be like "Oh how did you get the sleeves to do that?" or "What did you use to get this effect here?"

*Usually raids sales and uses parts of patterns to form franken-pattern for her costume base, the rest is usually an ill-advised experiment. ^^*

[Shi_Musouka]

I have no idea why someone would go to the Maid Cafe for take-out either....did anyone actually go for that?  Seemed to defeat the purpose to me.

I did, but that was only because my friend who happened to be staffing for Tabletop Gaming was doing badge checks near the door(he wasn't allowed to leave yet) and he wouldn't stop bothering me and my friend about getting his energy drink(and there wasn't too many nearby areas in the SJCC that supplied it), so that was probably the only time I bought something from Maid Cafe.

I understand that kids get excited to see their favorite characters and all that but what if this were, say, Disneyland.  What do you think would happen if someone forgot their manners and ran up on Mickey?   They would get ejected from the park if not banned.

I'm not asking for "ZOMG TEH NAZIS," but it would be nice for these "glompers" to understand that other people would just like to be shown a little common curtesy.

I think we should consider improving how we remind congoers about convention ettiquettes. Although it might be fun to "STAWK DAT HAWT RIKU COSPLAYER!", we still need to keep in mind that underneath that "SMEXEH" costume is a regular person like us. Although some people do abide by the "Do unto others what you would want done to you", we also need to remember that others have different tastes from ours, meaning not everyone is as ecstatic for a glompie as someone else would be. The solution I can suggest so far is to ask permission, or have a friend talk to the person-to-be-glomped(or that person's friend) to see if that particular person is okay with glomps(since it might ruin the fun if you were planning a suprise glomp) just to be sure that you don't invoke any medical dangers or cause an inconvienience to that person.

Glomping wasn't much of a problem for me since more than half of the time, I'd be seen walking around the con wearing a radio and we all know there's nothing worse than getting on a staffer's bad side, especially one that looks like he/she is of a high rank. Or if I was offered a hug, I'd politely thank the person and tell him/her no.

Feedback-wise, I'll start on my opinions.

Artist Colony: The artists were rather decent, though most of them weren't as skilled as I hoped they would appear to be. I think with the exception of 1 or 2 artists as well as the works displayed on the Artist Auction, the styles seemed a bit too generic for my taste. I couldn't really purchase too many prints because none of them really caught my interest in an impacting manner, but other than that, the artists were really friendly.

Black and White Ball: One of the best events I have attended this year. I had so much fun dancing over there. It was a little difficult because none of my friends attended the panel beforehand, but then again, who really needed it? It was the music and just having a good time with my friends and a few other congoers that made my experience enjoyable. If we do decide to have this event next year, I'll definetly be there.

Masquerade: Seating was much better, especially since I was in the back corner and I was still able to have a good view. The skits were really interesting, though I really can't sit through 3+ hours of it so I ended up leaving(I really hoped to stay longer too).

Dance: In terms of decency, it was pretty stable(I'm referring to Saturday bte). Other than a few cases, I didn't really have to make too many reports to Rovers.

Fanimaid Cafe: The maids were really lovely in terms of costume. I wasn't able to receive the service because I was in a hurry and was just stopping there on my way, however I was able to enter and see for a little while and it seemed rather peaceful. Like everyone else, I was a little bit confused as well.

Gaming: I liked how everything was grouped and slightly spread out. The gaming areas didn't really stink as much.

Karaoke: Didn't get to see it, but I really wished I did :[...

MusicFest: I wasn't really too fond of the room because it had this "cramped" feeling to it around the back walls. I really worry about the room as the attendee size grows because if we end up with too many attendees at MusicFest, that could end up causing a fire hazard(some of my staff friends and former dept heads were mostly concerned about the room due to this possibility). I thought the bands were an improvement compared to last year's. Not so much styles clashing, though I was sad that I had to miss out on Mari Ijima(I was looking forward to seeing her too :[...

Panels: There weren't enough interesting panels nor were there enough allocated during the night.

Video Programming: I was not pleased at all with the delays of screenings, because it ruined a lot of my plans during con. I didn't think it was really fair for the attendees to put up with it either.

My biggest grippe would have to be this year's programming, which is probably the only aspect of Fanime that went down the drain(slightly) for this year.

I think Ops(ConOps, Rovers, Facilities, etc.) did an good-excellent job this year though. The Registration lines for Saturday was rather hectic, but the important thing is, everyone survived! :D

One of the biggest criticisms I will often hear about Fanime is that it keeps getting worse and worse each year. I think the reason for this because people are not used to drastic changes, such as the arcades and artist tables being moved into a single room instead of being out on the concourse. It sorta makes the concourse feel naked if there aren't any around. I have been finding myself becoming dissatisfied with the Dealer's room each year, and this is mostly due to a lack in variation in terms of the products. There was nothing that really caught my eye since it felt like everyone was selling the same thing. The types of panels that have been going on could be thrown in here as well.

I'll probably edit this once I find more things to say.

[M]

Hi! This is the general comments and feedback thread as it relates to the con, not "Why do you cosplay?" :P Keep it on the subject!

[Casull]

- Hentai Rooms; I wanted funny, not scarring. O_O;;;; Sushi is ruined... Seriously. I'd like to see *funnier* hentai, not awkward, gross, and fetish-filled.

That's the beauty of hentai rooms:  They're inherently funny due to the crowd's squawks and chatter, combined with lame dialogue and cheesy voice-acting/fake moaning.

Seriously, I've never actually seen the crowd boo the hentai playing, except for that one night where we played Princess 69 a couple years back.

[Jelly Soup]

I did a sprite from the Atelier Series(Iris version) and I got 1 picture taken... and it was because he thought I was cosplaying Li Syaoran(which if anything is more insulting than not getting your picture taken before) and had a person cosplaying from the Atelier series say she had no clue who I was, and stated that she had no clue who she was, she just thought the costume was cute so she did it.

I even had a little chemistry set with the bottles and the rack and I sat on the floor playing with it like in the game... XD it was so bad ass.

I saw you, but I didn't recognize your costume immediately. I thought about it, realized who the character was and tried to find you (for pictures). Alas.....anyway, you wouldn't happen to have a pic of your cosplay, would you?

[PyronIkari]

I saw you, but I didn't recognize your costume immediately. I thought about it, realized who the character was and tried to find you (for pictures). Alas.....anyway, you wouldn't happen to have a pic of your cosplay, would you?

Nope XD.

[darkstar]

Oh dear. Glomping was such an issue, as were the people with the "glomp me" signs. Unfortunately, there's only so much we can do as staff.

It's probably going to have to require a significant increase in security.  If there's only so much you can do as staff, time to increase the staff or get more help from the outside.

Face it:  You're dealing with a bunch of people who, quite frankly, aren't that socially adept.  And simply saying "no means no, stop means stop", etc., doesn't cut it.

Take it from me -- thrown out of one college and almost out of a second back in the day for that stuff.  If I were to hang too long around the cosplayers, chances are I'd probably end up in jail for (what was that one post saying??) "STAWKING THAT HAWT RIKU COSPLAYER!!!"

(Although for me, it'd probably be _Rikku_ -- and, as for the other, been there, done that, and got on the front cover of the New York Post...)

You're probably going to have to make it more clear that violations might be considered criminal acts.  You might well have to see a lot more SJPD around next year.

The glomping thing is definitely going to have to be addressed by the staff, and perhaps there will be a rule put in place for next year, I can't really say for sure. A general rule of courtesy obviously isn't enough; asking whether people mind is the best way. But somehow, it will be dealt with.

Reiterating:  An increase in the security is going to have to be the starting point.  Additionally, you're probably going to have to delineate the criminal aspects of it.

And now to my favorite pet-peeve which has now wrecked more than one convention:

As far as the sleeping... Wow. Seriously, get a freaking hotel room, go home, etc. It is not our fault that you want to stay 24-hours, but... err... go somewhere else, sleep, BATHE, etc. I don't especially care if you eat so long as you don't turn yourself into one of our medical emergencies... though I'd reccommend it, the body doesn't function well without eating.

First off, I'm not going to spend $120 for a hotel room that I'm not going to freaking use unless you want to post a San Jose police officer at the door and demand I stay there for eight hours.  That's #1.

#2, No, we aren't forced to stay 24 hours, but if you're going to put out that kind of programming (and, admitted, the amount of programming late-late was reduced this year -- probably in anticipation that you probably are going to have to cut programming completely in the future at 3 AM or so (like other cons are!)...

I mean, let's go another route:  I decided to go to A-Kon last weekend and decided to do it the way you guys want to.  I spent more freaking time in my hotel room than at the con!!

And don't give me this crap about "You don't come to the con to sleep in your hotel room."  Especially if you are going to be fascists about the "no sleeping at the con" rules, then you DO come to the con to spend money and use the hotel rooms.

I'm sorry to anyone who got woken up badly, and yes, we do have a strong presence at night, and we do check the video rooms. It's something that's necessary. As Trooper said earlier, it's something that we'll be discussing for next year.

If I don't get banned from Fanime or arrested somewhere else by next year, I'll be VERY interested as to how it's addressed.

[darkstar]

... and getting royally honked at the "no sleeping at the con" rules and the hawks enforcing it.

Usually, I'll see some enforcement, but it was clear to me that it was Priority Number One Point of Emphasis made to security this year that the moment it became apparent that someone passed out anywhere, they were to be immediately rousted.

And even when I was awake, it was like "DAMN!!!  That's the third time this episode I've seen that burly security geek come through the room like that."

its a convetion center, not a hotel. i worked volunteers this year, and i saw more than enough people trying to sleep in the video rooms this year; i even saw two people walk into the hentai room with a blanket and a couple of pillows, in which they then started to reorganize the chairs into a makeshift bed. knowing this is not supposed to happen, i advised them that they cant sleep in there, and asked them not to try or rovers would be called to deal with it.

Then, as I very forcefully (to the point that I came to the very edge of, and should've just went over to, getting thrown out of Fanime 2007) made clear, DON'T FREAKING SCREEN AT 3-4-5 AM!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don't want it to be a hotel, then take all the late-night stuff other than the theme blocks and put it on the dark channels of the hotels you do have.

I mean, it's not hard to figure out that, especially when there are screenings that people want to watch at such insane hours and you have 80 hours or so of consecutive screenings, people are going to pass out from time to time.

The easiest solution would be to move all the late-late blocks a couple hours forward and close everything at 2-3 AM if it's going to be that much of a problem for the con center and the like.

Now, "building" beds is bad form.  Make oneself that obvious, and you risk whatever you're going to get.

I'm not going to pay $120/night for a hotel room that I'm literally going to have to be taken to in handcuffs by con security (if not the SJPD) to use.  Because that basically costs me 12-18 hours of the con right there.  Multiply it by two nights (much less the three!), and there goes any real need for the four-day pass.

if you dont want to have to pay that much for a room, try sharing a room with others so you dont have to pay as much cash; thats what i did, and i only paid $70...for the whole weekend.

Me and roommates don't mix.

Basically, for me, an anime convention (or, really, ANYTHING) comes down to a very delicate balance.  I could be the single biggest security risk that people face at Fanime, but they might not know it.  If I told people about my history, past, and potential, I'd be barred from not only Fanime, but probably every anime convention in the West.

Sharing a room would probably involve some degree of police involvement as they throw me out of the room on Friday night.  So that doesn't work.

Look, I'll say it a third time (I said it once to the info desk when I saw one of the most ridiculous pairs of contradictory statements I've ever seen at a con, and the second was to the four people who escorted me out at 5:30 AM Monday):

YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE SLEEPING AT THE CON, SHUT THE CON DOWN AT 2 AM OR SOMESUCH.  (And not reopen until 9-10 AM, like they did Sat. morning at ALA this year when there were only two people in the screening room at 2:30 -- one asleep and the other (me) fighting it off the best I could.)

(And before I get questions on that:  Yaoi/Yuri/Hentai/Madness/Anarchy would be moved up to about 9-10 PM.  I'd even go so far as to make the room that the Yaoi-Con people use a Kid's Room during the day.  All marathons have their own room anyway.  You've already moved up the dances and the karaoke such that the only thing left at 2-3 AM is the screenings.)

even if the con was shut down at 2am, it doesnt stop people from being out and about. also, hentai/yuri/yaoi nights are started at midnight due to the fact that its stuff that wouldnt normally be shown in the day/evening time, because its so controversial/risque/stuff that would get people in trouble for showing it at a time when there are a few tikes out with the parents.

Well, the first answer is that people aren't "out and about".  Basically, once the con closes, non-staff that are still in the con center 15-30 minutes after closing are considered trespassing.  The whole point of closing the con is to clear the building.

And as far as starting the controversial stuff at midnight, all I can say is what I said above:  Sleeping in the screening rooms becomes part of the territory if you decide to keep it open ridiculous hours.  And if you don't want the tykes around, then just do as you do normally and cordon off the yaoi/yuri/hentai area.

another reason why you/me/no one can sleep in the video rooms, or anywhere in the convention center is because it conflicts with possible fire codes, plus someone could easily do stuff to anyione sleeping in the video rooms, which would probably cause a lawsuit to come into play, either against the con center or fanime itself, which then leads to more enforcement and more complaints. its a simple rule to follow: dont sleep in the con center: easy as that.

Then don't screen past 2 or 3.  Judging by most of the rest of this thread (the glompinators out of control at Fanime), you seem to have another lawsuit risk on your hands.  (Again, trust me, I know about this kind of stuff...  The hard way!)

You could even say that people could take advantage of people in the screening rooms anyway, given the lack of light in the room.

I could come up with several other possibilities if you like (that's basically what I spent a lot of time doing from about Saturday on):

1) Require con-goers to get hotel reservations before they can get a full-con pass.

2) Go the Naka-Con approach:  Get rousted once, and that's your one warning.  Second one costs you the convention.  (With that, I'd have been tossed 7 AM Saturday.)  You do that, I'm gone -- but it's a possibility for the con itself.

3 -- a variation of 1) If you're not willing to show accomodations, you can't stay past midnight.  It would require a separate set of badges to be made, but still.

theres are all legitimate ideas, but they dont work; main reason they dont work are as follows:

#1 cant be done since there are some people that live very close to the con (close to 10-15 minutes away from the con and they could just go home for the night) wouldn't need to get a hotel room, or some people dont want to pay for a room and rather commute;

Fine, but they have to show something in the area at that point.  Whether it's their own residence or the like, they have to show something.  And, as far as commuting:

If I were to come from San Francisco, I'd be looking at 2 hours each direction (and that's even factoring a wait for the Caltrain -- late-night transit is far worse) plus 8 hours just for the sleep back up here.  That's half a day to begin with -- and why did I attend the con again???

The point of the argument is that if you want to be fascists about the "no sleeping" rule, then you don't want people like me who won't drop $500 or so on four nights of hotel.

#2 could work, but its too unfair to those that get blamed accidentaly because someone wants to point the finger at them when they didnt do anything and the person pointing the finger is actually the one that did it (that was simply an example);

It's something that at least one con will do.  (It's a con in Nebraska, for the record.)

The fact is that that's something you would do as a "feature" of security -- basically, your fascist comes down, catches someone sleeping, and gets that person escorted to security.  They would get a mark on their badge.  If they already had one, for that reason or something else, see you next year.

#3 is too complicated to do, and would require paperwork that would simply take up resources and time/manpower. having to have a separate badge that states that you have a hotel room would once again be unfair to those that live close by or commute.

Basically, if it's that much of a problem, then, again, don't screen at obscene hours.

[PyronIkari]

Because there is screening at late night hours doesn't mean that you are allowed to sleep on convention grounds. I'm a night person. On average I go to bed at around 6am PST and wake up at around noon PST. But I sleep... during that time in a designated sleeping area(my hotel room at the convention while I'm at the con).

You don't like people and don't want to share a room? Then don't. You act as if, because you have a badge at a convention you should be allowed to do whatever you want at said convention, and no one has a right to say you are wrong. It comes down to having basic respects. First off, respect for the convention, because they are providing you a service, and it is up to you to uphold your conduct within their service. If you can't respect the laws then you don't deserve said service.

But I still don't get the majority of what you're trying to prove with your backwards logic. You go on about this rant about how YOU are the ones with problems, and how you have this past, blah blah blah, which none of us should give a damn about. If YOU have the problem, then shouldn't you be the one that fixes it? It's not any ones job to look after you like a 4 year old. You throw yourself into a situation you can't really control and then blame others for it?

You seem to miss the point, that if people have business in the area it's fine. If people are in screening rooms... to screen. Or staff is there doing business, or people are talking in the lobbies and what not, these are fine. But by sleeping in public areas, you are breaking the law.

I'll put it how a lot of the old Karaoke staff puts it. If you have enough money to travel to the convention, buy a badge, and spend money on other crap at the convention, you should have money to rent a hotel room. If you cannot afford both... guess what, priorities take affect here. If you can't afford that... THEN DON'T COME AND BE A SEMI-INTELLIGENT HUMAN BEING.

Karaoke staff will do whatever the hell they want to people that fall asleep in the Karaoke room. They tell me to do whatever *I WANT* to them. I've done some pretty mean things before.

The point of the argument is that if you want to be fascists about the "no sleeping" rule, then you don't want people like me who won't drop $500 or so on four nights of hotel.

No, I'll put it more correctly. They want people that are respectable and intelligent people. If you cannot afford a hotel room, then share a room with people. If you're too picky to share a room, that isn't the conventions fault, that is your fault. You're the one being difficult, the convention is just trying to uphold laws and rules that are regulated and mandated by the state. If you feel the convention has no right to uphold these laws, then you sir are an idiot.

You're the one that is turning them into "fascists"(I love people that have no clue what a fascist really is but claim it so loudly). You're the one that can't follow simple rules, so what other choice does the convention have? Hey, if they could be lax and just let people do what they wanted with no reprehension... then they probably would(it's your ass... not theirs). But fact of the matter is, the attendees' conduct reflects on the convention. You being stupid and sleeping in screening rooms gets back to the convention center. The convention center can go "sorry you guys let people break laws, and act uncivilly, no con next year". So what does the con do? What is the bigger issue? Punishing someone who acted stupid and didn't follow the clearly posted rules... or stopping the convention completely?

Here's a better idea if you really don't want to get a room.

Exit the convention center. Walk 400 feet away from the convention building. Pull out your sleeping bag, and sleep on the street. That way, the convention isn't responsible and you don't have to share a room with anyone, and it costs you nothing. If a cop picks you up, or you get harassed, or whatever, that's all on you, but that's your choice for not getting a legitimate hotel room where you are sanctioned to sleep.

[otakuapprentice]

just like PyronIkari said: if you dont want to shell out that much cash, room with others; if you dont want share a room, then dont b!tch about it.

your actions and the actions of others reflect against the con staff, and against the con itself. by sleeping in the video rooms (or anywhere inside the convention center, for that matter), you are breaking the law.[/u] alot of stuff happened that shouldn't have happened this year; by breaking the rules and sleeping in the vid. rooms and not following the rules of the con in general, it puts not just us, but the con itself in danger.

just because you don't want to go to sleep and miss all the late-night programming doesn't mean that the rest of us want to stay up with you; some people like a bit of sleep every now and then.

the staff do a hell of alot more than you think (i should know); they can only do so much to insure everyones' safety and there are only so many Rovers Staff out during late-night to stop/prevent those trying to sleep. they lose more sleep than you do; just trust me on that note.

also, like P.I(PyronIkari) said, if you are able to have enough cash for food/arcades/dealers room, then you should be able to at least gather up a bit of money for a room. NOTE: if its just you, youre payin' somewhere between $340 and $385.

i know things will be reworked for next year, as well as some rules being more enforced. i'll be on rovers next year, and i will enforce the rules, believe that.

i'm just gonna put this as simply as possible and hope that it sticks: DON'T SLEEP IN THE CONVENTION CENTER, PERIOD.

[PyronIkari]

first off: no offense to PyronIkari, but this is probably the first time that i agree with him on something (not completely, just partially).

Not that this is important or anything... but you realize that it is more offensive to even say that, than not? If you really wanted it to be non-offensive you wouldn't have mentioned it at all, and it's due to guilt that you normally have disdain for anything I say, that forced you to put what you did. Just something for you to keep in mind, because others probably will take offense at that if you said something similar to them. And more than anything, it puts what you have to say in a negative light. You're "agreeing with someone you think is stupid and usually has nothing to contribute...".

[otakuapprentice]

first off: no offense to PyronIkari, but this is probably the first time that i agree with him on something (not completely, just partially).

Not that this is important or anything... but you realize that it is more offensive to even say that, than not? If you really wanted it to be non-offensive you wouldn't have mentioned it at all, and it's due to guilt that you normally have disdain for anything I say, that forced you to put what you did. Just something for you to keep in mind, because others probably will take offense at that if you said something similar to them. And more than anything, it puts what you have to say in a negative light. You're "agreeing with someone you think is stupid and usually has nothing to contribute...".

well noted, and changed. it was my sad attempt at sarcasm, and it failed; my apologies.

[darkstar]

Because there is screening at late night hours doesn't mean that you are allowed to sleep on convention grounds. I'm a night person. On average I go to bed at around 6am PST and wake up at around noon PST. But I sleep... during that time in a designated sleeping area(my hotel room at the convention while I'm at the con).

Sorry, I don't follow.  It's part of the freaking territory.  If you're going to have late-night screenings, people are going to pass out.  Period.  Otherwise, you see people carrying half-cases of energy drinks around (and I saw more than a couple here at Fanime this year -- a scary thought to be sure!).

You don't like people and don't want to share a room? Then don't. You act as if, because you have a badge at a convention you should be allowed to do whatever you want at said convention, and no one has a right to say you are wrong. It comes down to having basic respects. First off, respect for the convention, because they are providing you a service, and it is up to you to uphold your conduct within their service. If you can't respect the laws then you don't deserve said service.

I'm just saying not to say "You didn't come to the con to sleep in your room" in one side of your literature and then come out with this crap in the other.  And if you want to talk about respect with respect to this anime convention, I'd suggest you take a look at a lot more of this thread than just my stuff to know what respect actually gets you.

I don't respect the law because I don't respect the rule.  I don't understand why the convention, then, places itself into such jeopardy.  I think the rule and the law are baloney.  Don't like it?  You probably know who I am and have my address to send the letter banning me from future Fanime events.

But I still don't get the majority of what you're trying to prove with your backwards logic. You go on about this rant about how YOU are the ones with problems, and how you have this past, blah blah blah, which none of us should give a damn about. If YOU have the problem, then shouldn't you be the one that fixes it? It's not any ones job to look after you like a 4 year old. You throw yourself into a situation you can't really control and then blame others for it?

What I'm saying is that my presence there is a delicate balance.  Period.

You seem to miss the point, that if people have business in the area it's fine. If people are in screening rooms... to screen. Or staff is there doing business, or people are talking in the lobbies and what not, these are fine. But by sleeping in public areas, you are breaking the law.

Then arrest me.  I have no problem going to jail if it comes to it.  Didn't back in 1998, and really don't now.

I find the law and the rule to be complete baloney.  And you're not the first con with which I've had this discussion.

I'll put it how a lot of the old Karaoke staff puts it. If you have enough money to travel to the convention, buy a badge, and spend money on other crap at the convention, you should have money to rent a hotel room. If you cannot afford both... guess what, priorities take affect here. If you can't afford that... THEN DON'T COME AND BE A SEMI-INTELLIGENT HUMAN BEING.

I guess that's how it's going to have to be, then.  So the theoretical entry fee to Fanime is about $500, then.

Of course, then go to the post I made earlier and ENFORCE that too, then.

No, I'll put it more correctly. They want people that are respectable and intelligent people. If you cannot afford a hotel room, then share a room with people. If you're too picky to share a room, that isn't the conventions fault, that is your fault. You're the one being difficult, the convention is just trying to uphold laws and rules that are regulated and mandated by the state. If you feel the convention has no right to uphold these laws, then you sir are an idiot.

You're the one that is turning them into "fascists"(I love people that have no clue what a fascist really is but claim it so loudly).

A fascist is a dictator who has help from economic forces.  It would apply here.  You're shilling for the damn hotels.

Here's a better idea if you really don't want to get a room.

Exit the convention center. Walk 400 feet away from the convention building. Pull out your sleeping bag, and sleep on the street. That way, the convention isn't responsible and you don't have to share a room with anyone, and it costs you nothing. If a cop picks you up, or you get harassed, or whatever, that's all on you, but that's your choice for not getting a legitimate hotel room where you are sanctioned to sleep.

What do you think I do come about 7 AM?

[darkstar]

just like PyronIkari said: if you dont want to shell out that much cash, room with others; if you dont want share a room, then dont b!tch about it.

I'll b!tch about whatever the heck I want to b!tch about.

This is a subject with which I have more than a subtle problem -- if it's that much of a problem to pass out 20 minutes at a time or so in the screening rooms, then I can't attend four days, and probably better I didn't attend this year at all, underwhelming as it was to begin with.

your actions and the actions of others reflect against the con staff, and against the con itself. by sleeping in the video rooms (or anywhere inside the convention center, for that matter), you are breaking the law.[/u]

I have no problem going to jail.  I have no realistic problem risking jail if it comes to it.  But that's just me in general, not specific to Fanime.

alot of stuff happened that shouldn't have happened this year; by breaking the rules and sleeping in the vid. rooms and not following the rules of the con in general, it puts not just us, but the con itself in danger.

Well, I gave you more than a list of stuff to deal with that too.

I just cannot understand for the life of me that if it's that much of a law-breaking (and what law in the first place??) situation:  Why do you even bother risking it at that point??  If "a lot of stuff happened that shouldn't have", then basically one has to admit that Fanime is probably in some danger of cancellation to begin with.  (See the Glompinator discussions...)  I just see it completely bonkers to say openly "You didn't come to the con to sleep in the hotel room" and then force exactly that on the table.

But, personally, if I got a hotel room, I'd probably end up there more than at the con, and then why did I come in the first place???  It's probably not safe for me to be around that many cosplayers (which is why the screenings are my event of choice), and, frankly, the schedule of events was so underwhelming that, save the Fans Over 30 panel and the last half of Ouran (between watching the security scan the room literally every 10 minutes to toss people out for sleeping), the whole con was lost.

I basically spent the last three days of the con wondering openly when I was going to get tossed, not if.

just because you don't want to go to sleep and miss all the late-night programming doesn't mean that the rest of us want to stay up with you; some people like a bit of sleep every now and then.

That would seem more logical to close the video rooms at a reasonable hour than to keep them open!  Now who has the backward logic??

the staff do a hell of alot more than you think (i should know); they can only do so much to insure everyones' safety and there are only so many Rovers Staff out during late-night to stop/prevent those trying to sleep. they lose more sleep than you do; just trust me on that note.

Again, then your logic is backwards...  Why not close down the con at 2-3 AM and NOT HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT???  If it's that much of a freaking federal case about it, why even open the door to it?

You see, this is what I just do not get...  It isn't just a matter of "we'll keep going for those who can stay awake".  They'll pass out eventually too, unless they want to risk health on energy drinks all weekend.

Basically, the way I see your argument is that you're in business to fill the hotel space.  Why not just force the issue, and those who won't just will not attend the con, or certainly won't do all four days...

also, like P.I(PyronIkari) said, if you are able to have enough cash for food/arcades/dealers room, then you should be able to at least gather up a bit of money for a room. NOTE: if its just you, youre payin' somewhere between $340 and $385.

That's if you go remote.  (The Motel 6 is probably pushing about $300 for the four nights.)  You're looking at $500 or so when you start figuring the regular con hotels -- add an extra night for pre-reg, and it gets real fun, real fast.  And, then, of course, you can run into the guy I ran into on the light-rail -- probably the one guy in San Jose that made me look sane.

i know things will be reworked for next year, as well as some rules being more enforced. i'll be on rovers next year, and i will enforce the rules, believe that.

i'm just gonna put this as simply as possible and hope that it sticks: DON'T SLEEP IN THE CONVENTION CENTER, PERIOD.

I find the rule just utterly beyond ridiculous unless you shut down the con at a reasonable hour (which I will put at about 2 or 3).  If it's that much of a problem, I'm sure you have my real name and can have me turned away from next year's con.

[PyronIkari]

LOL.. why do people do anything? Why do you leave your house? Why do you post on the internet? Why do you go to conventions?

You're basically stating that you don't give a damn about anything but your own self-absorbed ego. Ah, you're not afraid to get arrested. What a cop out excuse. You act as if your actions only affect you, and that responsibilities of actions don't affect anyone but you. It must be so nice to be that self-centered and egotistical.

But no, you're fortunate that your hobby seems to be Japanese cartoons and comics, I'd love to see try this crap with a different hobby or what not. It'd be really really cute. You see, people don't like when you ruin things for them(I should know! People accuse me of doing it all the time.) for selfless acts like you being to cheap, or too picky that you can't share a room.

But just to be more realistic... I live a 5hour+drive from Fanime. Let's account for the necessities that were required for me to go to Fanime.

Gas: total was 35$
Hotel: 90$
Food: 24$
Badge: 45$

that's under 200$. And that's because I'm generous and paid my friends share for the hotel. 194$ total. How is that 500$? Again, you're the one that is too picky, so it's up to you. You don't want to pay for a hotel room, then don't, but don't think you should be allowed to get the convention in trouble by breaking laws.

They have viewing rooms at 4 am, for people like me. For people that don't sleep during that time. I'm a night person. I don't sleep until 6. At Fanime I'm free to go to viewing rooms to spend my time at 4am, then when i get tired at around 6, I return back to my hotel room to sleep. See how that works? This is basic principles of understanding the human body. "When you are tired, you go to sleep. You should know when you are getting tired, so you should retreat to your sleeping area."

Here's the thing, you can complain all you want, and in return we will tell you how your complaining is stupid. It's like complaining that the law prohibits rape.

Closing the viewing rooms etc. will not stop some people(such as yourself)  from sleeping on con grounds because they're too pathetic/stupid/insert word of choice here, to get a room, or realize their own budget, or find roommates, or commute back home. You think, they should screw over the intelligent people that just like being up late and sleeping longer in the day because you and others aren't capable of being intelligent social beings. Rather... not capable, but CHOOSE not to.

But, personally, if I got a hotel room, I'd probably end up there more than at the con, and then why did I come in the first place??? It's probably not safe for me to be around that many cosplayers (which is why the screenings are my event of choice), and, frankly, the schedule of events was so underwhelming that, save the Fans Over 30 panel and the last half of Ouran (between watching the security scan the room literally every 10 minutes to toss people out for sleeping), the whole con was lost.

Then don't come. Again, you choose to stay in your room, no one is forcing you to. If you have that much lack of will that having a room means you will not leave it... then whatever. You didn't enjoy the con, that's fine, don't come... again that's your choice. If you do come, abide by the rules.

Though if anything this does bring up a point... Fanime is too laxed about things. But I remember when I said that a long time ago, Craige said I was demanding conformity.

A fascist is a dictator who has help from economic forces. It would apply here. You're shilling for the damn hotels.

That's actually incorrect. ^^  Like I said, I like when people use buzz words like that and have no clue what it actually means. Fascism has specifics with how he controls and censors people. If they were fascist none of these "opinion threads" would exist.

[Tony]

Ok, let's not go back and forth on this. darkstar, do what you want to do, but you've been warned that sleeping in the convention space will get you in trouble.

It's going to happen. We have rules, and we will enforce them. If you don't want to be hassled, then sorry, don't come to the convention.

Let's continue with other discussions now.

[darkstar]

Sounds like this is going to be the last public word on the subject, but some of this ties back in to the rest of the stuff on several levels...

You're basically stating that you don't give a damn about anything but your own self-absorbed ego. Ah, you're not afraid to get arrested. What a cop out excuse. You act as if your actions only affect you, and that responsibilities of actions don't affect anyone but you. It must be so nice to be that self-centered and egotistical.

I've really had to over the years.  Otherwise, basically, I'd really be a basket case.  People in therapy have told me I should care less about what other people think of me.

But there's one thing that disturbs me about the way you guys go about business.

You make it sound as if Fanime is about thisclose from getting shut down.  If that's the case, given what I saw, it would appear that, especially with the sleeping at the cons being priority 1 this year, that you had to do a significant amount of civic tap-dancing not to get the con called off _this year_.

Now, add the glompinators from the rest of this thread, and I can't see how you are going to get Fanime '08 off the ground without a Veteran's Stadium solution.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, it would be that Fanime would have to create, complete with holding cell, a remote station of the San Jose Police Dept. for next year's Fanime.  (And I'm not joking in the least here!!) In Philly, in the old Veteran's Stadium, the fans got so unruly that the city had to create a remote police station, holding cell, and even a judge had to come in on game days to dispense justice.

It really sounds to me (and this is before I involved myself in this thread) that the last couple of Fanimes have gotten so out of control that there is real danger of the whole thing being scrapped.  If that's the case, so be it.

But no, you're fortunate that your hobby seems to be Japanese cartoons and comics, I'd love to see try this crap with a different hobby or what not. It'd be really really cute. You see, people don't like when you ruin things for them(I should know! People accuse me of doing it all the time.) for selfless acts like you being to cheap, or too picky that you can't share a room.

Law of the beatdown???  That's what it might have to come to.  It's basically where it comes down to where I've come from.  Unless you're implying a lawsuit or six.

But just to be more realistic... I live a 5hour+drive from Fanime. Let's account for the necessities that were required for me to go to Fanime.

Gas: total was 35$
Hotel: 90$
Food: 24$
Badge: 45$

that's under 200$. And that's because I'm generous and paid my friends share for the hotel. 194$ total. How is that 500$? Again, you're the one that is too picky, so it's up to you. You don't want to pay for a hotel room, then don't, but don't think you should be allowed to get the convention in trouble by breaking laws.

I'm still waiting for what law is broken here -- probably going to have to go to IM with this whole thing, but I'm still waiting.

That's because you are considered sane.  Let's play the same game if I were to play by The Rules:

Transportation:  $15 for two Caltrains.
Hotel:  It depends on if you want it on-site or off-site.  Take the hotel room and multiply it by a factor of four.  If off-site, add another $15 to transportation.  Talking MINIMUM $300 here, and probably past $400.
Badge:  You think I can plan that far in advance for anything?  $55.
Food: $100 for 4 1/2 days remote.

That'd be your $500 to start with.  And, note, as I said before, that's ENTRY FEE.  That's just to get _in the door_.

Part of the point in which I am making vis-a-vis being such an a**hole about all this is that if you want The Rules to be abided by, you're going to have to shut people out of the con.  People like me.  People like the glompinators.  One of the very real possibilities that I think you might have to do next year is that no one gets the badge without signing off on a strict Code of Conduct.

And the no refunds policy is in effect.  So don't pre-reg without a thorough understanding of the Code of Conduct.

They have viewing rooms at 4 am, for people like me. For people that don't sleep during that time. I'm a night person. I don't sleep until 6. At Fanime I'm free to go to viewing rooms to spend my time at 4am, then when i get tired at around 6, I return back to my hotel room to sleep. See how that works? This is basic principles of understanding the human body. "When you are tired, you go to sleep. You should know when you are getting tired, so you should retreat to your sleeping area."

I'm a night person too, FWIW.  I'm also the kind of person that will basically crash where I damn well please, within some degree of reason.

Here's the thing, you can complain all you want, and in return we will tell you how your complaining is stupid. It's like complaining that the law prohibits rape.

Well, there are those, back in the day, that said I had a problem with _that_ too, even though that wasn't true...

If my complaining is that stupid, it's because of the fact that not only am I a bit hard-headed, but I find your rules and law to be stupid in that regard...

Closing the viewing rooms etc. will not stop some people(such as yourself)  from sleeping on con grounds because they're too pathetic/stupid/insert word of choice here, to get a room, or realize their own budget, or find roommates, or commute back home.

And this kind of backwards logic is why...

Let's go through this one final time:  You close the con area, and THAT'S NOT AN OPTION.  Attendees would HAVE TO LEAVE at closing time.  Remaining on con grounds after that point would add trespassing to the equation.  Now, chances are I either will be banned, ejected, or arrested next year.  Fine, if it gets to that point -- but what I'm saying is that if there's that much of a GD problem with it on a general sense, then finish the job you started this year.  You moved the dances forward, you moved the karaoke forward.  Just finish the damn job.

I mean, the level of security you will probably need to enforce what needs to be enforced next year will make it basically impossible (if not IMPLAUSIBLE) to have enough security to keep the McEnery open 24 hours a day over the course of the next Fanime.

And you're talking about realizing a budget at an anime con???  What do you take these "will yaoi for yuri" people for?  Why do you think they thought they banned all signs for Fanime?  (confusing it for the ban on signs at AX...)

You think, they should screw over the intelligent people that just like being up late and sleeping longer in the day because you and others aren't capable of being intelligent social beings. Rather... not capable, but CHOOSE not to.

If the people at Fanime (or any anime con!!), across the board, would be intelligent social beings (I find the choice of words especially laughable, given the context), you wouldn't have the problems you have now.  I mean (and, again, take this from someone who _KNOWS_), it really sounds as if you have severe assault problems at the con with the glompinators after '07.  From what I used to hear back in the day, it could even be construed as a form of sexual assault.

You also wouldn't have the "con funk" problems nor many of the other security problems you have.  We aren't intelligent social creatures -- it's one of the things that creates the "open season" effect that you get at an anime con!

But, personally, if I got a hotel room, I'd probably end up there more than at the con, and then why did I come in the first place??? It's probably not safe for me to be around that many cosplayers (which is why the screenings are my event of choice), and, frankly, the schedule of events was so underwhelming that, save the Fans Over 30 panel and the last half of Ouran (between watching the security scan the room literally every 10 minutes to toss people out for sleeping), the whole con was lost.

Then don't come. Again, you choose to stay in your room, no one is forcing you to. If you have that much lack of will that having a room means you will not leave it... then whatever. You didn't enjoy the con, that's fine, don't come... again that's your choice. If you do come, abide by the rules.

Basically, once I leave the environment, it's hard for me to come back.

Let me give you a brief breakdown of how Dallas went:

Friday:  Con 7-4  Room 4-Sat 10
Sat: Con 10-10 Room 10-Sun 10
Sun: Con 10-4ish

If it weren't a trip 1500 miles away to wash away the stain of this Fanime, frankly, I wouldn't have gone.  Under Fanime, certainly not a four-day pass.  And then, once I took one look at the underwhelming schedule, probably Kubla-Con gets my time (at the very least, splitting between the two cons).

But I didn't enjoy Fanime in the least because I was more worried about following your darned rules than having fun.

Though if anything this does bring up a point... Fanime is too laxed about things. But I remember when I said that a long time ago, Craige said I was demanding conformity.

Something that would probably make it more enjoyable, but might have a significant impact of cutting next year's attendance by a good 5%.

A fascist is a dictator who has help from economic forces. It would apply here. You're shilling for the damn hotels.

That's actually incorrect. ^^  Like I said, I like when people use buzz words like that and have no clue what it actually means. Fascism has specifics with how he controls and censors people. If they were fascist none of these "opinion threads" would exist.

[/quote]

Well, I am pressing my luck on responding to this after the next post, but still...

I'll take this to IM now, yes...

[RyuHayabusa]

Move this to PM now and stop spamming this thread with this debate. Thank you.

Now let the the constructive criticism and ideas/suggestions/feedback continue.

[Jelly Soup]

Was hotel prices REALLY that big a deal? I got my room for $235 total (that's with my $50 deposit, all of which I got back plus a little more).