Rock Band, new info; drumkit fails horribly

Started by deepbluevibes, June 15, 2007, 01:33:18 PM

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alkaline

Quote from: "deepbluevibes"
Not going to argue my point anymore; Harmonix/EA just needs to add one more drumpad. Anything less is just pointless, a waste of time, and will not be anywhere *near* a realistic drum experience that they're touting.

I'd like to quote myself again-

QuoteIt's not like you or your kind wanted to like this game in the first place.

M

QuoteWhether they're called that same thing in class, or in theory, or on a website, really does not matter to me.
So how do you determine what a hi-hat is then? By saying that the definition does matter to you is a complete cop-out. Just say that you were wrong and move on.

QuoteIn playing drums, the simple fact is, 99% of the time in MOST MUSIC (read; all of the music that will be on this game, most likely), you do not keep the beat with the "cymbals", you keep it with the "hi-hat", and the hi-hat has a lot more versatility than a cymbal does due to the hi-hat having a pedal.
99% is completely too high. Maybe 99% of the music you play has the beat kept on the hi-hat (DM != all music), but the (warning: new cymbal type) ride cymbal can be used to keep the beat. Jazz, much? Of course not, that doesn't exist in the 99% of the DM world.

QuoteMy main point is, the game says "you can sit down at a drumset and play these tracks if you can play them on expert", and if you have four drumpads, with a constantly changing hi-hat/tom/cymbal, over three different drums, with your hi-hat on your right side (which as was mentioned before, is on probably less than 10% of drumsets) this claim is FALSE.
We don't know if the game will change them on the fly or if it's a per-song basis. Congrats on assuming again; the rest of us can assume (based on your past assumptions) that you are wrong.

QuoteNot going to argue my point anymore; Harmonix/EA just needs to add one more drumpad. Anything less is just pointless, a waste of time, and will not be anywhere *near* a realistic drum experience that they're touting.
DM has four pads and a pedal and you always play that (infact, you've spent the past few FanimeCons doing nothing but playing DM)... I guess DM must be a "pointless, waste of time". ;) Also, I've seen many drummers play DM and then go on to learn the real songs (I'm referring to DM's covers of actual songs) in a quick amount of time.

And of course, when people come into your thread and prove you wrong, you're "not going to argue [your] point anymore". BTW, what was your point again?
QuoteThis means there's no hi-hat on your left, or ANYWHERE on the set, which basically takes out one of the fundamentals of drums. This would be like having a guitar controller with just buttons and nothing to strum.

This is also going to make it *extremely* hard to play some songs, because the hi-hat regulates rhythm for not only the drummer but generally everyone in a band environment (in most songs that will be in this game, mainstream rock stuff).

But I mean come on, this should just be common sense. Take out one of the toms, or SOMETHING; the hi-hat NEEDS to be in there.
So you wanted to have a hi-hat somewhere on the drum setup...
QuoteHarmonix/EA just needs to add one more drumpad. Anything less is just pointless, a waste of time, and will not be anywhere *near* a realistic drum experience that they're touting.
...but now you want them to add one more drum pad?
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PyronIkari

Uhm... hey... uh... call me crazy... but... uhm...

The point of the Hi-hat isn't to keep the rhythm... the point of the drums are to keep the rhythm. The drummer dictates the tempo/pace of the song, and any part of the drum can be used as the rhythmic base. Each part of the drums is the individual sound you want to make, but each part is conjoined to keep rhythm. Hi-hat keeps rhythm just as much as the wood block(even though you'd probably use a hi-hat more). It's based on the song... Some songs are primarily snare, in which case the snare would... Some songs are cymbal based and the rhythm is primarily kept with the cymbal.

PS: My roommate laughed at almost every single one of your posts, yes he is a drummer and has been for the last 8 years.

Geez... it sounds like you're trying to dictate music and how a DRUMMER IS SUPPOSED TO PLAY... despite not being a drummer.

deepbluevibes

Ok, sorry, this is just hilarious with the lack of reading my posts/hypocrisy.

Quote from: "MPLe"
QuoteWhether they're called that same thing in class, or in theory, or on a website, really does not matter to me.
So how do you determine what a hi-hat is then? By saying that the definition does matter to you is a complete cop-out. Just say that you were wrong and move on.

You might want to do the same first on many issues here that i've proven you wrong on.

Quote
QuoteIn playing drums, the simple fact is, 99% of the time in MOST MUSIC (read; all of the music that will be on this game, most likely), you do not keep the beat with the "cymbals", you keep it with the "hi-hat", and the hi-hat has a lot more versatility than a cymbal does due to the hi-hat having a pedal.
99% is completely too high. Maybe 99% of the music you play has the beat kept on the hi-hat (DM != all music), but the (warning: new cymbal type) ride cymbal can be used to keep the beat. Jazz, much? Of course not, that doesn't exist in the 99% of the DM world.

Nice reading.
QuoteIn playing drums, the simple fact is, 99% of the time in MOST MUSIC (read; all of the music that will be on this game, most likely)

Thanks for trying to make it look like I was saying all music was that way, and missing what I was getting at. 99% of the time in most music equates to about 75% of music, not 99% of it.

Quote
QuoteMy main point is, the game says "you can sit down at a drumset and play these tracks if you can play them on expert", and if you have four drumpads, with a constantly changing hi-hat/tom/cymbal, over three different drums, with your hi-hat on your right side (which as was mentioned before, is on probably less than 10% of drumsets) this claim is FALSE.
We don't know if the game will change them on the fly or if it's a per-song basis. Congrats on assuming again; the rest of us can assume (based on your past assumptions) that you are wrong.

If it's a per song basis, then that's even worse. Have fun having one snare, one tom, one cymbal, and one hi-hat, still in an akward position.

Quote
QuoteNot going to argue my point anymore; Harmonix/EA just needs to add one more drumpad. Anything less is just pointless, a waste of time, and will not be anywhere *near* a realistic drum experience that they're touting.
DM has four pads and a pedal and you always play that

Ok, stop. WOW. WOW.

Please, PLEASE research your argument.

Drummania has FIVE PADS. Hi-hat, snare, two toms, and a cymbal.

Quote(infact, you've spent the past few FanimeCons doing nothing but playing DM)... I guess DM must be a "pointless, waste of time". ;)

No, because DM simulates a real drumset much more accurately than this ever will, at this point.

QuoteAlso, I've seen many drummers play DM and then go on to learn the real songs (I'm referring to DM's covers of actual songs) in a quick amount of time.

I do this as well. Know why? Because DM is setup like a real electronic/authentic drumset.

Rock Band's drumset is four pads, with the hi-hat on the right, and that's not even all the time.

QuoteAnd of course, when people come into your thread and prove you wrong, you're "not going to argue [your] point anymore". BTW, what was your point again?

What was yours? You just came in here and immediately started being agressive, as you always are with me it seems for some reason, not like i really care or mind but I was presenting an opinion on something that you clearly did not research (I love still how you think DM has four pads. wow.)

Quote
So you wanted to have a hi-hat somewhere on the drum setup...

...but now you want them to add one more drum pad?

Nice messing your own argument up.

Up above, you say that DM has four pads. If you said "Three pads and two cymbals/hi-hats/whatever", that would be understandable. Yet you yourself refer to the cymbal/hi-hat (whichever one you didn't forget) as a drum PAD, clearly, by saying that it has FOUR pads.

Thus, you *yourself* call the cymbals/hi-hats drumpads as well, so your entire point on trying to make me look bad/wrong there failed, as you yourself do exactly what you just critiqued me on.

When I say hi-hat, yeah, i want them to add a hi-hat, and this would be done by *adding another drum pad*. They're obviously going with all circles for the drumset, so if they added a hi-hat, it would be another circle-shaped pad.

Also;

Quote from: "alkaline"
I'd like to quote myself again-

QuoteIt's not like you or your kind wanted to like this game in the first place.

I'd like to quote *MYSELF* again; realize that when I say these complaints, i'm saying them not because if the game isn't like DM I won't like it, i'm saying it because it's just stupid the way they have it set up.

I mean if they went so bat-shit on the guitars with 10 frets, making them look realistic, is it really THAT HARD to add a fifth pad for a hi-hat, put it on the right, and make it 500x more realistic in terms of a normal, 5-piece drumset?

QuoteUm, wow, good job assuming *A LOT*.

I've been BEGGING for an AMERICAN drum simulator for YEARS.

Thanks for playing guys, after MPLe actually thought DM had FOUR PADS, and after alkaline failed to read my post whatsoever, I really don't have any point in this thread anymore. Not going to argue with people who really don't know what they're talking about, gave you credit at first, but wow.
Stupidest post/most uninformed person award goes to;

Quote from: PyronIkari on October 28, 2007, 08:10:30 AM
In DM the high hot also acts as the high tom, the open hat, the closed hat.

p.s. it never does that.

M

So because I forget that DM has five pads instead of four (which, I'll admit that you're correct) negates all of my posts?

The point is that you don't know anything on this game except what was (poorly) typed up on that NeoGAF (and cross-posted on Bemanistyle) and have assumed most of what will be in the game.

DM has drum pads yes, because *gasp!* it's imitating an electronic drum set. If it was a real drum set, I would have said "hi-hat, snare drum, etc."

I just love reading people like you post about games where you have no clue what's going on (from creating the game to the final produce) and just like to complain and bicker about everything.
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PyronIkari

PSS:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=g4ExR4QMaxc

Yoshiki doesn't like the hi-hat very much. But then again, X-Japan has never been in Drummania(kukuku) so it doesn't count as rock music... which apparently is totally based on the hi-hat to keep it's rhythm.

deepbluevibes

Meant to do this in the post also, but forgot.

Quote from: "PyronIkari"
Geez... it sounds like you're trying to dictate music and how a DRUMMER IS SUPPOSED TO PLAY... despite not being a drummer.

Funny, because i *am* a drummer. owned my own drumset for four years now, so gj assuming wrongly on that.

Also;

Quoteas rock music... which apparently is totally based on the hi-hat to keep it's rhythm.

GJ reading this;

Quote(since the hi-hat needs to be tapped constantly in most songs that'll be on this game, during most of the song)

Quote(read; all of the music that will be on this game, most likely)

See, I know there is a lot of rock that doesn't use the hi-hat. Hell, almost all of the rock I listen to DOESN'T utilize the hi-hat as the means of keeping the beat.

Here's one thing everyone here apparently fails to realize, time and time again though;

-This is a mainstream game
-All of the artists announced so far are mainstream
-Guitar hero 1, 2, and every other music game Harmonix has made has mainstream music, and is mostly mainstream music

thus you need to conclude that

-Most mainstream rock music DOES use the hi-hat as a means of keeping rhythm
-All of the bands mentioned so far that will be in the game extensively use the hi-hat for rhythm, if not exclusively

This was my original point, and I really am amazed that you guys keep on trying to insist that I meant that ALL ROCK MUSIC abuses the hi-hat, or even that if it doesn't, it's not rock. I clearly stated before that i'm talking about the music in this game, so GJ.

P.S. a drum solo isn't a song. a drum solo isn't about keeping the rhythm for the rest of the band, that's why it's *a solo*.
Stupidest post/most uninformed person award goes to;

Quote from: PyronIkari on October 28, 2007, 08:10:30 AM
In DM the high hot also acts as the high tom, the open hat, the closed hat.

p.s. it never does that.

PyronIkari

OH YAY, you replied...

Quote from: "deepbluevibes"Meant to do this in the post also, but forgot.


Funny, because i *am* a drummer. owned my own drumset for four years now, so gj assuming wrongly on that.
Wow you sound like you don't know crap for someone who plays the drums(once more, my roommate laughs at you)

QuoteSee, I know there is a lot of rock that doesn't use the hi-hat. Hell, almost all of the rock I listen to DOESN'T utilize the hi-hat as the means of keeping the beat.

Here's one thing everyone here apparently fails to realize, time and time again though;

-This is a mainstream game
-All of the artists announced so far are mainstream
-Guitar hero 1, 2, and every other music game Harmonix has made has mainstream music, and is mostly mainstream music

thus you need to conclude that

-Most mainstream rock music DOES use the hi-hat as a means of keeping rhythm
-All of the bands mentioned so far that will be in the game extensively use the hi-hat for rhythm, if not exclusively

Bull... why?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7KW6ucyYuvo
That was the first song I thought of, and hey hey, he barely uses the hi-hat at all except for the transition near the end.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eJJgM23gLh8
Song doesn't even have a Hi-hat, because he uses an open hat-cymbal instead.


WOW, THE FIRST TWO SONGS I COULD THINKEDED OF'D DOESN"T HAS THE USINGS OF THE HI-HATS!

QuoteP.S. a drum solo isn't a song. a drum solo isn't about keeping the rhythm for the rest of the band, that's why it's *a solo*.
Oh ho, you apparently don't listen to X-Japan.

Man... also, Drummania is a terrible game. Why? There's only 5 PADS... And where's my selector device on my electric drum set?!?!?!? I should be able to switch my cymbal types as well as change in between different toms!

WHERE'S MY 2nd AND 3RD DAMNED FOOT PEDAL... MY DAMNED HI-HAT SHOULD HAVE A GOD DAMNED FOOT PEDAL LIKE A REAL DRUMSET!!!! AND WHERE IS MY GOD DAMNED DOUBLE BASS!

DRUMMANIA IS TRASH... ONLY RETARDS WILL PLAY IT!

otakuapprentice

wow.

where's the fire extinguisher when you need one, 'cause this thread is flamin'!


:lol:

...i'll wait until I see an official press release from EA/Harmonix on Rock Band, then i'll make up my mind.
Time And Relative Dimension In Space.

gmontem

If this game ends up not utilizing a hi-hat, I don't think the average joe and his 10 year old are going to notice or care.
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Quote from: "gmontem"If this game ends up not utilizing a hi-hat, I don't think the average joe and his 10 year old are going to notice or care.

The average joe tends to only think that a drum set contains a hi-hat, bass drum, a snare drum, and maybe a pair of tom-toms.

Not having the hi-hat is completely out of the question for a game of this caliber (that is, a game that they're trying to make as realistic as possible). Considering the popularity of music games in the US, now that Guitar Hero and MTV have shown how popular music games can be.
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otakuapprentice

this is why i wait for official news/press releases.

this link will end the hi-hat debacle(for now...)

RB guitar, mic, and drumkit

if you don't feel like checking the link, i'll just say it:
Quotealthough when needed, the yellow pad will almost always double as the high hat.
Time And Relative Dimension In Space.

M

Quote from: "otakuapprentice"this is why i wait for official news/press releases.

this link will end the hi-hat debacle(for now...)

RB guitar, mic, and drumkit

if you don't feel like checking the link, i'll just say it:
Quotealthough when needed, the yellow pad will almost always double as the high hat.

I posted that on the first page.

Quote from: "MPLe"Oh wait. A new challenger appears! One detail that was left out of the original article... "...although when needed the yellow will almost always double as the high hat..." Note that the kit isn't finalized so if you're able to move the yellow button above the red one, that would make it really close to how an actual "right-handed" drum kit is.
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serajwl

BAWWWWWWWW

Quote from: "otakuapprentice"wow.


...i'll wait until I see an official press release from EA/Harmonix on Rock Band, then i'll make up my mind.

agreed.

zoupzuop2

Wow. Had no idea a war was a'ragin' in the forums.

I'll just say this:
I play a keytar. As such I've no such time for such... MORTAL games. The keytar is the instrument of GOD. Seriously. Jeebus is pro'lly up there rockin' the AX-8 (Not invented yet) right nao.
Haven't been here much since '09. I said some stupid, stupid things before (and after) that.

Jerry

wasnt there a Jp. home version of Drum-mania?

How was that Drum kit set up?

Looking at the arcade version Vs. home version...

would there be an 'easy or economical' way of getting the drum kit as viable gaming accessory?  ::)
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deepbluevibes

all i have to say is;
i told you so.
the final version does indeed switch out drumpads to function as multiple things (hi-hat + toms),
and the final version does indeed have the hi-hat on the right side of the snare, something that the vast majority of drumsets don't do.

don't bother replying trying to say "oh well no blah blah"; the game's being played at colleges nation-wide, and it's coming out in a few weeks. it's finalized, it's done, and the claim of "you can play this on a real drumset if you beat it on rock band on expert" is a load of bullshit.

thanks :D
Stupidest post/most uninformed person award goes to;

Quote from: PyronIkari on October 28, 2007, 08:10:30 AM
In DM the high hot also acts as the high tom, the open hat, the closed hat.

p.s. it never does that.

Spiritsnare

Quote from: Jerry on October 26, 2007, 10:15:40 AM
wasnt there a Jp. home version of Drum-mania?

How was that Drum kit set up?

Looking at the arcade version Vs. home version...

would there be an 'easy or economical' way of getting the drum kit as viable gaming accessory?  ::)

Yes, there was, and yeah, there was a high-hat.

What I hear, however, is that the pads aren't the most sensitive of things (something that you *really* need in a music game), and that the bass pedal feels like you're stepping on nothing.
epic progressive

vox

Asa_Gohan

Sorry but I have to agree, that set up fails so horribly...And rockband doesnt = drummania.  Drum mania has an actually set up that consists of a high hat, and only a high hat, a snare, 2 tom toms, and a cymbal.  Oh and a bass pedal. And they are layed out as exactly that and dont double as anything else unlike rockband where it is snare, and then just cymbals/tom toms.  WTF!  If theyre going for something realistic, they should have 6 things for drums. High hat, snare, 2 tom toms, a cymbal, and a bass pedal. And that tom toms shouldnt double as cymbals.  and btw, Ive NEVER seen a set up like in rock band either....snare then high hat? NO NO NO NO NO Its high hat then snare and from there followed by tom toms and ending is probably a cymbol.  Well with the toms acting as cymbals I can see that a bit now but really though....a high hat not being on the left side would screw up a lot of drummers.
Drummania>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rockband in terms of a drum set.  What they went for wasnt a traditional drumset, it was just pure fail.  But why would they care...As long as it makes money right? -_-

This sig isnt true anymore...I have to wait for a bit...

Asa_Gohan

Quote from: PyronIkari on June 19, 2007, 07:03:20 PM
Man... also, Drummania is a terrible game. Why? There's only 5 PADS... And where's my selector device on my electric drum set?!?!?!? I should be able to switch my cymbal types as well as change in between different toms!

WHERE'S MY 2nd AND 3RD DAMNED FOOT PEDAL... MY DAMNED HI-HAT SHOULD HAVE A GOD DAMNED FOOT PEDAL LIKE A REAL DRUMSET!!!! AND WHERE IS MY GOD DAMNED DOUBLE BASS!

DRUMMANIA IS TRASH... ONLY RETARDS WILL PLAY IT!
ZOMG IN ROCKBAND THERE ARE ONLY 4 PADS! WHERE IS IT'S SELECTOR DEVICE!?!?!?! HOW COME IT CANT CHANGE OUT TOM TOMS OR CHANGE THE LOCATION OF WHAT GOES WHERE!!! WHY DOESNT IT HAVE A HI HAT PEDAL!?!?!?! WHY DOESNT IT HAVE DOUBLE BASS!?!?!?! WHY DO THE TOM TOMS DOUBLE AS CYMBOLS AND NOT HAVE INDIVIDUAL FUNTIONS LIKE DRUM MANIA!??!?!?!
However its only a prototype...And hopefully they'll make it better.  Till then the drumset sucks ass compared to the drum mania machine....

This sig isnt true anymore...I have to wait for a bit...