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[Long]

It is, however, against the law to make unwanted physical contact, and unwanted glomps would be included in this.  It's not etiquette...it's a legal matter.  If you can't understand this and proceed to "act up as you please", then I sincerely hope that you enjoy a nice, free room at the local jail, because that's what you would deserve if you decide that you're entitled to glomp people that don't want to be glomped for various, legitimate reasons.

Oh please. Now you're just being pretentious. My suggestion leaves it up to the members to regulate their own behaviour. Nobody, if they're glomped at a con is going to file an assault lawsuit, unless they were injured. The reason I provided my suggestion is because Fanime cannot create an effective rule against glomping without banning it entirely. I've already stated my aversion to glomping without permission, but you can't just go around forbidding people to glomp others at a con, because then you'd have to investigate the context of each and every case. You have to leave it up to them and their own good sense.

I "act up as I please" in different ways.

[Stormfalcon]

I will report any unwanted glomps on my person to the police, as is my right.  End of story.

Consensual glomps aren't what's at issue here.  It's the unwanted ones that are, and no, etiquette guides and flyers aren't going to get through to people who glomp others without permission.  It's going to have to take a ban and some example-making to get the message through.  Of course, it's also against the law, so a ban would merely be a formality as far as con management goes.

If you don't glomp people without permission, as you claim not to, then a ban on such things should not bother you one bit.

[fold]

keep fighting the good fight long<3

While non-consensual glomping is irritating- theres nothing you can do about it, except report your own cases. I love glompers and I think that the interaction that goes on in fanime is special- its a bunch of dorks- dorking out in a way that does not happen in everyday society. You don't just walk down the streets of your town- or city as you may have it- and see handsome boys dressed as wantunuki, or pretty girls dress as chii, or anybody dressed like a pocky or wii-mote. at fanime we connect even just through the way we dress- or the games we play of the screening we may find ourselves in.

those who have "gone for ten years" and "this is not what makes fanime what it is" are the old geezers yelling at the teenagers for what they've done to rock n' roll- get over it- WE'RE IN YOR FANIME EATIN YOR POCKY!!!!
loves! 

[dj seifer]

Man... anime fans today creep me the hell out.

[luckyends]

im actualy in that video i was the vash
but any way i am actualy quite flatered about glomps ^_^ they make me feel apreciated and like i did something cool my only problem is the people who yaknow they say can i hug you and then take 10 steps back and come baraling at you at full speed thats not cool
when this girl glomped me it was good because she did it corectly even though i made a noise it still wasnt like omg im dieing inside it was more like ah that was fun
i was urahara last year and after the bleach gathering some little girl wanted to hug me and she asked then she went full force into me head first and it hurt cause i was tired
so to a certain extent there is a glomp ediket
no forcefull ones just kinda light ones
and its always best to ask or give heads up but one of the other things is you have to remember that at conventions its part of the cultutre same thing as going to like france and getting kissed on the cheek at a certain point you have to suck up and deal with it because it just aint gonna change

[Moonblossom]

and its always best to ask or give heads up but one of the other things is you have to remember that at conventions its part of the cultutre same thing as going to like france and getting kissed on the cheek at a certain point you have to suck up and deal with it because it just aint gonna change

This analogy is entirely faulty. I live in Quebec, where the two-cheek kiss is also a standard form of greeting, we have very similar cultural traditions to the French parts of Europe.

HOWEVER, from a very young age, you're taught to interpret body language. If you go to lean in to peck someone and they tense up or inadvertently pull away you DON'T KISS THEM. It's as simple as that. You can tell when someone's expecting it, as they lean forward and tilt to the left as well as you do. If they don't do that, it's clear they're either uncomfortable or not expecting it, and you don't do it. I've also been to parties where I've been informed that "Daniel over there does not like being kissed, please go shake his hand" or something similar.

Personally, I only do the cheek kiss with family and close friends, due to my aforementioned squickiness about physical contact, and I've used the "lean backwards and nod" strategy to evade it from other people and it nearly always works.

Not to mention a little peck on the cheek is a lot less potentially harmful than some unwashed fatass barrelling at you at 35mph and taking a flying leap at your torso :/

I can't believe that after all the incredibly valid and reasonable explanations as to why this shouldn't be acceptable to do to strangers people are still saying "oh just deal with it"

I was fucking raped, for christ's sake. I shouldn't have to potentially "just deal with" random people touching me. I should be able to enjoy a fun convention with my friends and FEEL SAFE AND COMFORTABLE. Fanime is supposed to be fun. If you're constantly having to walk close to a wall and look over you shoulder to make sure nobody's going to fling themselves at you like a rabid monkey, how the hell can you have fun all weekend?

Just don't fucking glomp unless you have permission in advance. IT'S NOT THAT FUCKING COMPLICATED.

[phoenixphire24]

keep fighting the good fight long<3

While non-consensual glomping is irritating- theres nothing you can do about it, except report your own cases. I love glompers and I think that the interaction that goes on in fanime is special- its a bunch of dorks- dorking out in a way that does not happen in everyday society. You don't just walk down the streets of your town- or city as you may have it- and see handsome boys dressed as wantunuki, or pretty girls dress as chii, or anybody dressed like a pocky or wii-mote. at fanime we connect even just through the way we dress- or the games we play of the screening we may find ourselves in.

those who have "gone for ten years" and "this is not what makes fanime what it is" are the old geezers yelling at the teenagers for what they've done to rock n' roll- get over it- WE'RE IN YOR FANIME EATIN YOR POCKY!!!!
loves! 

No, I will not "get over it." Glomping randomly and "rock and roll" are not the same thing by a long shot. There's nothing wrong with connecting with people, but if I cosplay for Fanime I am doing so to show my love for anime and to show off my sewing skills. This does not mean I want people to touch me!!! How hard is this to understand? I agree with Moonblossom; I shouldn't have to spend my time at the con watching out for people who, aside from making me feel uncomfortable, could cause damage to me and/or my property. I think most cosplayers, especially the ones with more elaborate costumes, feel the same way. I have NO PROBLEM with people who ask. I will not tolerate being ambushed. And Fanime needs to try and keep these people in check before someone gets hurt and sues.

I'm sorry, but to me, being an anime fan automatically implies that you are in some way idiotic. They very nature of most anime characters are idiotic, and anime fans usually try to act as much like their character as they possibly can, hence cosplaying and the like.

I don't see what the issue is with attention whoring. Again, that's just another characteristic of anime fans. The entire point is to grab as much attention as you can, with your cosplay or whatever. Prostitution, however, is against the law. I have no qualms against the prohibition of that.

Pretty much. Nothing else at Fanime draws much attention for me anymore. It's about being who you are with your friends. All that extra stuff means nothing to me.

I don't know where you get off saying that "anime fans" are all idiotic, attention whoring, and simply cosplay to act like the characters they're dressing as. As you admit, you are clearly not at Fanime for the anime and are not much of a fan of anime, so please don't assume to know how fans act. Some can be more enthuastic than others, and yet still manage to control themselves. I have no idea why you come to Fanime at all.

Sorry, but doing "any crazy shit we wanted to" is usually what leads to anal-retentive rules at cons. You and your friends are a small number of the 12,000+ attendees, plus guests (who may not be from America), dealers, other presenters, and who ever else might be around that is not involved with the con. Certain rules are in place to keep everyone safe and makes the convention center and the city of San Jose want to have Fanime back year after year. As cheesy as it might sound, when you are at a con, you represent anime fans and messing around and causing problems gives other anime fans and Fanime a bad name. Do you think guests from over seas want to come to cons where people are running around and acting like idiots? Coming to a con and being with your friends and other anime fans does not entitle you to act as you please. Everyone should have a good time and still be able to act appropriately. If you and your friends can't do this, than please go elsewhere.

I don't give a damn about overseas guests. If certain people want to make a good impression, they can go ahead and do that, but you shouldn't limit the people that only want to have fun; forcing them to try and live up to some kind of stupid standard just so the other people don't feel like they haven't impressed their favorite guests or whatever. Everyone is different, and they have different ways of expressing themselves. I don't want to impress guests. And I don't give a fuck about the impression I give to the rest of the world or San Jose city. Labels are idiotic and I don't have to represent anything if I don't want to. If I do unintentionally, well it sucks for the people that adhere to that label, but it's not my problem. I act as I please, either at the con, or any place else, and nothing has to entitle me to that. I act appropriately enough not to get kicked out, but I'm sick of people who continue to try to create rules to stop people who just try to be who they are. If I want to act like an idiot, then I can very well act like an idiot if I please. I'm all for limiting the amount of rough-housing, but how the hell do you plan on creating a rule for that without banning it entirely? "Everyone must ask before they glomp." Is all nice and good on paper, but how the hell are you going to enforce it?

I'm just afraid that movements like this, and the banning of the signs (which I think is utterly stupid) is just a precursor for removing aspects of the con that I've always known to be there. I'm far removed from the fandom, and the reason I come to this con is just to hang out with my friends, and act like the idiot I am. It was a comfortable environment, because about 80% of the people there were idiots as well. Now the 20% are trying to enforce strict rules on the others to stop their fun and their freedom. It's basic elitism.

My proposed solution is perhaps informational pamphlets about glomping and perhaps sign usage that may dissuade people from doing it in the wrong manner, or to lay down the rules of etiquette of glomping or other exchanges with other con members. A manners booklet perhaps, before you set down a iron-clad rule. Let the con-goers regulate their own habits, and if they break etiquette, the victim can go to a con moderator to report harassment, or dish out their own punishment.

So basically your a selfish jerk face that doesn't care about anyone except yourself? You may not want to give guest and anyone else at the con a good impression, but most of the attendees do and so does the Fanime staff. When you buy a pass to Fanime, you're agreeing to certain codes of conduct. Being at a con does not mean you have the freedom to do whatever you want. Most people who go to Fanime do regulate themselves, but that doesn't mean there are no rules in place. No one is suggesting that glomping or signs have to go away completely, they just need to be regulated-as you suggest or otherwise- because of the few retards that go overboard. It's true that it will be hard to regulate, but people at least need to be made aware that there is a problem.

If you want to act like a jerk than fine, but don't complain when you get yelled at or thrown out by the staff or volunteers.

[Jun-Watarase]

Okay, here I go.

I'm sorry, but to me, being an anime fan automatically implies that you are in some way idiotic. They very nature of most anime characters are idiotic, and anime fans usually try to act as much like their character as they possibly can, hence cosplaying and the like.

Despite it not being entirely true for the nature of anime to be idiotic, there is a culture to the behavior. There's no point on getting into that, but it's one thing to "be in character" and "being a retard that runs around at a con yelling "OMG I LUVS INUYASHAASSS!!", or someone crawling on the floor, begging you by saying things like "I need... pocky!!". Just because it's an anime con, doesn't mean you can abandon all common sense and social etiquette, and others don't sign away their rights just so you can be yourself by fulfilling your need to assault strangers. Just because there are idiots around you, doesn't make breaking the law and disrespecting others okay. This isn't being prude, as people really have no trouble expressing without ... physically harming others. If that is absolutely necessary for their need for expression, an anime con isn't the place to be.

Besides, the cosplay scene has been well tarnished to hell and back.

I don't see what the issue is with attention whoring. Again, that's just another characteristic of anime fans. The entire point is to grab as much attention as you can, with your cosplay or whatever. Prostitution, however, is against the law. I have no qualms against the prohibition of that.

Attention whoring without bothering others is more or less okay, but when they follow you around the con for a hug, it's rather irritating and creepy. It's only considered a characteristic is because people judge the minority of people who whore the most attention and base traits off that... which not only gives anime fans as a whole a bad name, but it makes it less enjoyable for others and people who might bring their parents in with them.

... Are you a moron? From your post, you're pretty much implying that no one can have fun... without being incredibly stupid.

Pretty much. Nothing else at Fanime draws much attention for me anymore. It's about being who you are with your friends. All that extra stuff means nothing to me.

See, that's how it is for most people who aren't new to the scene. It's all about hanging out with friends, and making new ones. This is entirely true, but nothing to do with the issue. It's okay to be who you are and exhibit that in some way, no matter how boisterous and obnoxious a person may be-- but you should understand how that bothers other people. You might not care, but some people will, and some people will take action, even if it creates some sort of conflict. As long as you don't go up to someone directly to bother them, then I doubt anyone will have enough of a problem as to actually feel the need for confrontation or having them reported.

When I go to a con, I'll have fun with friends, run around and play, talk about our interests, and do crazy shit. (I mean, look at Pyron. If he can get away with having a guy simulate giving him a BJ while being under the skirt of his maid cosplay in the lobby... we're desensitized by this sort of thing. What else could possibly happen.) But at the same time, as much as it must disgust or annoy those around us, yes, we're being ourselves, BUT... we don't go up to people and bother them physically to throw "THIS IS ME!!!" in their faces. Fanime isn't the ultimate place for expression, though. Standards, laws, and regulations still exist. They're as lenient as they can get now, so if this whole physical assult thing gets out of hand, then Fanime will be a strict con with people with sticks up their arses managing it. If you don't want that, compromise.

It's not that hard to be yourself without going up to someone and harassing them about it.

"Anime convention" is just another word for "big playground for retards". People can have all the standards they want. Doesn't mean we have to follow them. You don't like my idiocy? Deal with it. I frankly don't care. Rules are a bit more tricky, perhaps, but like you said, they're not going to be banning it. How about we draw a line down the middle of the convention center. All the too serious people with sticks up their butts can stay on one side, and all the people who want to have fun can stand on the other. That's basically what your argument is coming down to. You don't like character of other people, and you want them to change to fit your "standards". We don't have to, not even in real society. Sure there are consequences, like being looked down upon, but when that doesn't bother you, there are no clear set rules against that sort of thing.

Oh please, if you assume that that's a solution to my argument, then you either lack a tact and creativity altogether, or you have trouble reading. What standards are you thinking of, anyway? I'm thinking of a simple "Don't come up and bother me, follow me around the con, touch me without permission if I don't know who the hell you are, or break my shit because you want to tackle me", which really... isn't a high standard to set. I don't think anyone really has a trouble of meeting lines such as that.

This isn't WAR between the glompers, and people who don't want to glomp. I'm not FOR banning glomping, nor am I for glomping. If glomping becomes a problem, however, it eventually will be banned and physical contact becomes limited and just messes everything up. Why fight for a reason to compromise? If you kids want to bitch and whine about how you can't tackle strangers, too bad. What's wrong with doing it amongst friends? You're heading in the wrong direction, unless this is some sick vigilante act to ban glomping by MAKING it a problem.

I don't give a damn about overseas guests. If certain people want to make a good impression, they can go ahead and do that, but you shouldn't limit the people that only want to have fun; forcing them to try and live up to some kind of stupid standard just so the other people don't feel like they haven't impressed their favorite guests or whatever. Everyone is different, and they have different ways of expressing themselves. I don't want to impress guests. And I don't give a fuck about the impression I give to the rest of the world or San Jose city. Labels are idiotic and I don't have to represent anything if I don't want to. If I do unintentionally, well it sucks for the people that adhere to that label, but it's not my problem. I act as I please, either at the con, or any place else, and nothing has to entitle me to that. I act appropriately enough not to get kicked out, but I'm sick of people who continue to try to create rules to stop people who just try to be who they are. If I want to act like an idiot, then I can very well act like an idiot if I please. I'm all for limiting the amount of rough-housing, but how the hell do you plan on creating a rule for that without banning it entirely? "Everyone must ask before they glomp." Is all nice and good on paper, but how the hell are you going to enforce it?

See, it's perfectly fine people who you are, but don't mind OTHERS for being who THEY are to try to manage their own comfort. If you're going to talk about rights, okay... if someone shoots you, and you happen to have a gun, can you not shoot back? None of the people against glomping are going after the 'tards and telling them "Hey, stop glomping. You're acting stupid and I don't appreciate it" despite being nowhere near you... If they did, you'd be thinking "What the f***? What a stupid bitch." right? Same with someone going up to you and screaming "OMG, I LOOOOVE VASH AND EDWARD ELRIC YAOWWEEE!!" which... does happen frequently.

Again, no one is aiming for glomping to be banned, but people DO want the compromise of people maintaining some sort of common etiquette as to respect other people's rights for their personal space by not... assulting them and breaking their shit.

I'm just afraid that movements like this, and the banning of the signs (which I think is utterly stupid) is just a precursor for removing aspects of the con that I've always known to be there. I'm far removed from the fandom, and the reason I come to this con is just to hang out with my friends, and act like the idiot I am. It was a comfortable environment, because about 80% of the people there were idiots as well. Now the 20% are trying to enforce strict rules on the others to stop their fun and their freedom. It's basic elitism.

Yeah, okay. Most people were accepting of signs to an extent until people with "Glomp Me!" signs started forcing other people around them to glomp them to up their glomp count. It was okay until people started putting up signs implying prostitution. It was okay until every person in the entire con started doing these sorts of things. Does it not make SENSE for FanimeCon to enforce some sort of warning or rule? Society could've let anyone in the country to keep a knife without enforcing a "no stabbing" law and be okay with it... until a ton of people get stabbed! See how a few people can ruin everyone's fun? Glomping can continue to be fun... until people make it an issue.

My proposed solution is perhaps informational pamphlets about glomping and perhaps sign usage that may dissuade people from doing it in the wrong manner, or to lay down the rules of etiquette of glomping or other exchanges with other con members. A manners booklet perhaps, before you set down a iron-clad rule. Let the con-goers regulate their own habits, and if they break etiquette, the victim can go to a con moderator to report harassment, or dish out their own punishment.

See, this does sound like a good idea, despite it should be common sense and FanimeCon shouldn't have to actually spend the money to hand out pamphlets... but if people need a wake-up call, so be it. The solution was simple in the first place. Don't bother strangers with confrontation, physical contact, or stalking. That's not being anal, and people have the right to defend themselves, which is happening now.

FanimeCon was never started for people to act like idiots to each other.  It started out as a gathering of the various local anime clubs to get together and enjoy anime. [...]  If that kind of shit is the only reason you come to Fanime, then may I suggest that you look elsewhere because it's increasingly unwelcome.

Who gives a damn about what fanime started as. All I'm worrying about is what it is now. You went to the con for ten years. Whoopdeedoo. No one cares. Things change. All of you serious bums flock to the forums now, but when Fanime actually comes around, the majority of the present population are idiots, and your "increasingly unwelcome" attitude towards them is going to have no effect. You may like anime. I hate the majority of that crap. I don't enjoy otaku, or ugly cosplayers, or annoying people to take things too seriously, but I let them be who they are, and do their thing. I don't turn on them in the con, or make fun of them. I make friends with them and hang out, because I accept them. I'm an idiot. That's my nature. You don't have to accept me if you don't want to however, but I'm willing to assure you that there will be many others who will.

I go to Fanime for what it's turned into. Not what it was, as do many people.

Yeah, anyway... things change, and it's no use hanging onto the past... however, the demographic of attendees aren't primarily idiots. They're actually the minority, who make themselves more conspicuous because of their exuberant behavior, thus being more noticeable. I don't bother other people having fun, and when I'm doing stupid shit with my friends and acting like a retard, people shouldn't have a problem with it unless I'm directly bothering them. SAME WITH OTHER IDIOTS, MIND YOU, don't ruin MY fun by stalking me and tackling me to the ground.

Most people who dislike glompers, retards, loud people, cosplayers, fat old people wearing sweaty "glomp me" t-shirts and shorts, what have you... they're being who they are. Fine. But don't throw it in my face and get in my way while I'm talking to someone or going to the bathroom, just to tell me that you want to hug me, or how much you want to get in bed with me. It's not so much flattering, as most people who've done that aren't even remotely attractive. I DON'T mind, however, someone confronting me for an actual legitimate reason. Complimenting my cosplay in words is normal, but don't do it physically by glomping the crap out of me and breaking it in the process. Talking to me about the cosplay I'm wearing and the series it's from, being a legitimate reason for conversation with a stranger, is fine. If I have the time... sure, I'll have a conversation. I don't mind interacting with strangers, unless they're making me feel uncomfortable, where I have the right to get the hell away from them.

keep fighting the good fight long<3

While non-consensual glomping is irritating- theres nothing you can do about it, except report your own cases. I love glompers and I think that the interaction that goes on in fanime is special- its a bunch of dorks- dorking out in a way that does not happen in everyday society. You don't just walk down the streets of your town- or city as you may have it- and see handsome boys dressed as wantunuki, or pretty girls dress as chii, or anybody dressed like a pocky or wii-mote. at fanime we connect even just through the way we dress- or the games we play of the screening we may find ourselves in.

those who have "gone for ten years" and "this is not what makes fanime what it is" are the old geezers yelling at the teenagers for what they've done to rock n' roll- get over it- WE'RE IN YOR FANIME EATIN YOR POCKY!!!!
loves! 

But there's no reason why others can't have their opinion on glompers and people who lack tact and common sense. Again "dorking out" may be okay, but not when you shove it in other people's faces. Going to Fanime is a special experience to be with friends and meeting people of similar interest, but it's not an excuse to bother the crap out of people with direct, unwanted, interaction. I don't see why it's so difficult to glomp amongst your friends and respecting the personal space of STRANGERS YOU DON'T KNOW.

However, don't if until you find a person who is actually anal about it enough to cuss you out, report you (or even sue), and tear you a new one because you assaulted them. I doubt there are a lot people like this, but a good chunk of them want to do just that.

Don't tell others to just get over it because you're a retarded weeaboo that feels the need to touch people who don't want to be touched. They don't have to, and if they wanted to, they could make it more of a problem because it's technically against the law. How about I light up a cigarette and start following you around and blowing my crap in your direction, and once I'm done, how about I put it out on your face. Got a problem? Get over it.

But I know better and know that things aren't done this way.

im actualy in that video i was the vash
but any way i am actualy quite flatered about glomps ^_^ they make me feel apreciated and like i did something cool my only problem is the people who yaknow they say can i hug you and then take 10 steps back and come baraling at you at full speed thats not cool
when this girl glomped me it was good because she did it corectly even though i made a noise it still wasnt like omg im dieing inside it was more like ah that was fun
i was urahara last year and after the bleach gathering some little girl wanted to hug me and she asked then she went full force into me head first and it hurt cause i was tired
so to a certain extent there is a glomp ediket
no forcefull ones just kinda light ones
and its always best to ask or give heads up but one of the other things is you have to remember that at conventions its part of the cultutre same thing as going to like france and getting kissed on the cheek at a certain point you have to suck up and deal with it because it just aint gonna change

I don't care about getting glomped until someone actually hurts me or breaks my stuff. I've seen people get hurt, drop their food, have parts of their cosplay destroyed, and sometimes even being SEXUALLY assaulted or having some of their money stolen without notice. Sure, you can't eliminate glomping altogether... but I don't think even the people who problems with them are aiming for that to happen. Not everyone likes being touched, and if you respect those people's personal space, then things can be just dandy. People, more or less, are having a problem with it because they're getting hurt with full-on glomps, and it makes it more uncomfortable because a lot of those people aren't expecting them since they tend to be somewhat random.

Anyone going to Fanime should have fun. Being yourself is fine as long as you don't ruin the fun for others. No one should have to tell others what to do if other people don't force others to accept poor behavior, especially through some form of direct confrontation. No one needs to set foot at a con feeling restricted and their actions limited by unnecessary rules (besides ones like... common etiquette, rules and regulations, and... well, law.) and no one should feel uncomfortable and afraid of people around them assaulting them for no reason. Tell me if you have trouble understanding this.


So AGAIN, it's not so much war on glomping. People on the forum have the right to express their opinion on the issue during this discussion, whether they're for or against. As for you being a jerk, I'm not complaining, but don't mind me being a bitch.

[phoenixphire24]

Jun- I love you and the use of the words "retarded weeaboo."

I totally agree. People can act like idiots all they want as long as it's not bothering anyone and the staff/volunteers have every right to deal with people that are causing problems. I have no problem pointing out or reporting such persons. Or I'll punch them in the face, which ever is more effective. 

[Long]

I will report any unwanted glomps on my person to the police, as is my right.  End of story.

Consensual glomps aren't what's at issue here.  It's the unwanted ones that are, and no, etiquette guides and flyers aren't going to get through to people who glomp others without permission.  It's going to have to take a ban and some example-making to get the message through.  Of course, it's also against the law, so a ban would merely be a formality as far as con management goes.

If you don't glomp people without permission, as you claim not to, then a ban on such things should not bother you one bit.

I think you underestimate the good sense of most people. You just seem intent on being negative, but I feel that my solution is a good method to reduce the amount of unwanted glomps. I am opposed to a ban on glomps because it is an insult to the character of many con-goers, automatically assuming that they will glomp others without permission. That is limiting the freedom of others without even providing a chance to see if they will regulate themselves. Your method is extremist, and would just cause a ton of strife throughout members of the con.

I don't know where you get off saying that "anime fans" are all idiotic, attention whoring, and simply cosplay to act like the characters they're dressing as. As you admit, you are clearly not at Fanime for the anime and are not much of a fan of anime, so please don't assume to know how fans act. Some can be more enthuastic than others, and yet still manage to control themselves. I have no idea why you come to Fanime at all.

I was a fan of anime, but I am not anymore, so I'm acquainted with their general characteristics. (In addition, going to Fanime yearly puts me into even more contact with anime fans, and I tend to actually study my surroundings.) And I've already discussed why I attend Fanime a few posts back. I won't bother to repost it again.

So basically your a selfish jerk face that doesn't care about anyone except yourself? You may not want to give guest and anyone else at the con a good impression, but most of the attendees do and so does the Fanime staff. When you buy a pass to Fanime, you're agreeing to certain codes of conduct. Being at a con does not mean you have the freedom to do whatever you want. Most people who go to Fanime do regulate themselves, but that doesn't mean there are no rules in place. No one is suggesting that glomping or signs have to go away completely, they just need to be regulated-as you suggest or otherwise- because of the few retards that go overboard. It's true that it will be hard to regulate, but people at least need to be made aware that there is a problem.

If you want to act like a jerk than fine, but don't complain when you get yelled at or thrown out by the staff or volunteers.

I think it's selfish of others to expect people to act a certain way just so they may impress their "idols" or whoever with the general characteristics of their demographic. I have the freedom to do whatever I want within the limits of the consequences I am liable to accept. Thank you for finally admitting my freedom to act like a jerk as I please.

@Jun: You have too much written for me to quote it all. >____> But I will give you a general answer. I agree with you. I am in no way suggesting that the law be broken. Far from it. All I wanted was recognition to act like an idiot as I please. However forcing yourself upon others, or following (i.e. stalking), while acting like an idiot or otherwise (being an idiot in this case is detrimental) is called harassment, and is against the law. I in no way stated that I promote harassment. I only stated that people should act like idiots if they want to, providing that it is within legal confines. Harassment is a federal offense, prostitution is a federal offense, and assault is a federal offense. But the actions that lead to these, might be interpreted differently, in different cases, which is why I suggested that the con members themselves regulate them. Being an idiot and harassing others do NOT go hand in hand. If an individual feels harassed or assaulted, they can take it to the proper con authority, and explain her case. What I think is a foolish idea is if there were staff members wandering the con, and slapping arbitrary people who glomp with demerits. The context is impossible to tell at first glance. I agree that non-consensual glomping is an issue, but we have to be careful about the way we deal with it, in order to ensure the enjoyment of as many people as we can in the con. Ignoring one population to please another is always a terrible way to go about things, and everyone must be thought of.

[phoenixphire24]

So basically your a selfish jerk face that doesn't care about anyone except yourself? You may not want to give guest and anyone else at the con a good impression, but most of the attendees do and so does the Fanime staff. When you buy a pass to Fanime, you're agreeing to certain codes of conduct. Being at a con does not mean you have the freedom to do whatever you want. Most people who go to Fanime do regulate themselves, but that doesn't mean there are no rules in place. No one is suggesting that glomping or signs have to go away completely, they just need to be regulated-as you suggest or otherwise- because of the few retards that go overboard. It's true that it will be hard to regulate, but people at least need to be made aware that there is a problem.

If you want to act like a jerk than fine, but don't complain when you get yelled at or thrown out by the staff or volunteers.

I think it's selfish of others to expect people to act a certain way just so they may impress their "idols" or whoever with the general characteristics of their demographic. I have the freedom to do whatever I want within the limits of the consequences I am liable to accept. Thank you for finally admitting my freedom to act like a jerk as I please.

I'm saying you can act like a jerk, just don't complain when you get yelled at for doing certain things. I'm not saying you have to "impress" anyone, just that you are among other people and should at least follow standard rules of conduct. Personally, I don't really care about the guests either, but that doesn't mean I'm going to run up to them acting like a moron either. Doing things like jumping on random people, messing with other's property, or otherwise harassing others shouldn't be tolerated at Fanime just because it's a con. If a staff person finds what you're doing unacceptable, then they're going to tell you so and you'll have to face the consequences. It might not be a "law" but you don't have a "right" to be at the con either. So do whatever, but if you're bothering me, I'll report your ass.

[Long]

So basically your a selfish jerk face that doesn't care about anyone except yourself? You may not want to give guest and anyone else at the con a good impression, but most of the attendees do and so does the Fanime staff. When you buy a pass to Fanime, you're agreeing to certain codes of conduct. Being at a con does not mean you have the freedom to do whatever you want. Most people who go to Fanime do regulate themselves, but that doesn't mean there are no rules in place. No one is suggesting that glomping or signs have to go away completely, they just need to be regulated-as you suggest or otherwise- because of the few retards that go overboard. It's true that it will be hard to regulate, but people at least need to be made aware that there is a problem.

If you want to act like a jerk than fine, but don't complain when you get yelled at or thrown out by the staff or volunteers.

I think it's selfish of others to expect people to act a certain way just so they may impress their "idols" or whoever with the general characteristics of their demographic. I have the freedom to do whatever I want within the limits of the consequences I am liable to accept. Thank you for finally admitting my freedom to act like a jerk as I please.

I'm saying you can act like a jerk, just don't complain when you get yelled at for doing certain things. I'm not saying you have to "impress" anyone, just that you are among other people and should at least follow standard rules of conduct. Personally, I don't really care about the guests either, but that doesn't mean I'm going to run up to them acting like a moron either. Doing things like jumping on random people, messing with other's property, or otherwise harassing others shouldn't be tolerated at Fanime just because it's a con. If a staff person finds what you're doing unacceptable, then they're going to tell you so and you'll have to face the consequences. It might not be a "law" but you don't have a "right" to be at the con either. So do whatever, but if you're bothering me, I'll report your ass.

Bothering you personally, as I have already stated is harassment, and is illegal. I have already said that I have the right to act like a jerk or an idiot within legal confines. I'm just pissed off, because so many of you misconstrue idiocy and harassment. You can harass people without being an idiot, and you can be an idiot without harassing people. I have nothing to prove to anyone. I'm not going to go up to guests and harass them, but I'm not going to stop running around in circles around a column like a maniac or play insane games of hide-and-seek just because they're there either. I never said harassment should be tolerated at fanime. I say that idiocy, moronity, and jerkish behaviour SHOULD be tolerated at Fanime (at least within its official rules and regulations, if not by individuals).

[Jun-Watarase]

I will report any unwanted glomps on my person to the police, as is my right.  End of story.

Consensual glomps aren't what's at issue here.  It's the unwanted ones that are, and no, etiquette guides and flyers aren't going to get through to people who glomp others without permission.  It's going to have to take a ban and some example-making to get the message through.  Of course, it's also against the law, so a ban would merely be a formality as far as con management goes.

If you don't glomp people without permission, as you claim not to, then a ban on such things should not bother you one bit.

I think you underestimate the good sense of most people. You just seem intent on being negative, but I feel that my solution is a good method to reduce the amount of unwanted glomps. I am opposed to a ban on glomps because it is an insult to the character of many con-goers, automatically assuming that they will glomp others without permission. That is limiting the freedom of others without even providing a chance to see if they will regulate themselves. Your method is extremist, and would just cause a ton of strife throughout members of the con.

See, this method is either hit or miss. There is the possibility of people just needing some sort of notice to start being more considerate of what they do, but there's also the possibility of them not caring. However, it is something and could potentially make a gradual difference. If possible, this idea wouldn't be so bad. The only risk is losing some time and money in the event that it actually... doesn't work.

Banning glomps, however, is just as destructive to con-goers as much as uncontentious physical contact is. If people took the effort to regulate their own idiotic behavior, no one should even consider banning glomps. ... AGAIN, it isn't glomping that's the issue. It's the people. If people can handle the situation and improve, then there's less of a problem. If someone is glomped, unwillingly, they have the right to report the person who had assaulted them... However, what good would banning glomping do? It would limit physical contact altogether, and then we'll have an even bigger problem, for everyone.

So basically your a selfish jerk face that doesn't care about anyone except yourself? You may not want to give guest and anyone else at the con a good impression, but most of the attendees do and so does the Fanime staff. When you buy a pass to Fanime, you're agreeing to certain codes of conduct. Being at a con does not mean you have the freedom to do whatever you want. Most people who go to Fanime do regulate themselves, but that doesn't mean there are no rules in place. No one is suggesting that glomping or signs have to go away completely, they just need to be regulated-as you suggest or otherwise- because of the few retards that go overboard. It's true that it will be hard to regulate, but people at least need to be made aware that there is a problem.

If you want to act like a jerk than fine, but don't complain when you get yelled at or thrown out by the staff or volunteers.

I think it's selfish of others to expect people to act a certain way just so they may impress their "idols" or whoever with the general characteristics of their demographic. I have the freedom to do whatever I want within the limits of the consequences I am liable to accept. Thank you for finally admitting my freedom to act like a jerk as I please.

By my standards, I generally don't care too much about impressing guests, however, I won't act like an idiot and make them uncomfortable. If I were a guest, not from within the country, but overseas from a country of different culture, I wouldn't want to be traumatized by people aggressively begging for attention by shouting grammatically incorrect Japanese phrases. One could argue, "Well, they're on MY turf and I shouldn't have to bend my ways to cater to a guest." No, one isn't obligated to change oneself completely in the presence of a guest, but the least someone could do is pay a little respect. Most people don't have a problem of using respect from time to time, so it shouldn't be such a stretch just because it's a con.

@Jun: You have too much written for me to quote it all. >____>

Lolololol.

But I will give you a general answer. I agree with you. I am in no way suggesting that the law be broken. Far from it. All I wanted was recognition to act like an idiot as I please. However forcing yourself upon others, or following (i.e. stalking), while acting like an idiot or otherwise (being an idiot in this case is detrimental) is called harassment, and is against the law. I in no way stated that I promote harassment. I only stated that people should act like idiots if they want to, providing that it is within legal confines. Harassment is a federal offense, prostitution is a federal offense, and assault is a federal offense. But the actions that lead to these, might be interpreted differently, in different cases, which is why I suggested that the con members themselves regulate them. Being an idiot and harassing others do NOT go hand in hand. If an individual feels harassed or assaulted, they can take it to the proper con authority, and explain her case. What I think is a foolish idea is if there were staff members wandering the con, and slapping arbitrary people who glomp with demerits. The context is impossible to tell at first glance. I agree that non-consensual glomping is an issue, but we have to be careful about the way we deal with it, in order to ensure the enjoyment of as many people as we can in the con. Ignoring one population to please another is always a terrible way to go about things, and everyone must be thought of.

But it's back to square one now, isn't it? It isn't so much a desire to limit others of their freedom of individuality, to ban glomping, or to eradicate the need to have fun once in a while-- it's the glomping and glomp me signs that cause problems LIKE harassment. I agree with the statement that ignoring one group to satisfy the other is inefficient; if you cater to the needs of glompers, people are forced to "deal with" unwanted physical contact and personal space breaches. If you cater to the needs of people against glomping, it limits physical contact altogether.

Even then, I still don't understand why people reject the idea of compromise. This discussion somehow evolved into something to the likeness of a debate between conformist republican wankers and narcissistic liberal douche bags. If people acted civil just enough not to bother others, then no one has to boss and scold the other party with unnecessary rules.


EDIT EDIT EDIT!!:

So basically your a selfish jerk face that doesn't care about anyone except yourself? You may not want to give guest and anyone else at the con a good impression, but most of the attendees do and so does the Fanime staff. When you buy a pass to Fanime, you're agreeing to certain codes of conduct. Being at a con does not mean you have the freedom to do whatever you want. Most people who go to Fanime do regulate themselves, but that doesn't mean there are no rules in place. No one is suggesting that glomping or signs have to go away completely, they just need to be regulated-as you suggest or otherwise- because of the few retards that go overboard. It's true that it will be hard to regulate, but people at least need to be made aware that there is a problem.

If you want to act like a jerk than fine, but don't complain when you get yelled at or thrown out by the staff or volunteers.

I think it's selfish of others to expect people to act a certain way just so they may impress their "idols" or whoever with the general characteristics of their demographic. I have the freedom to do whatever I want within the limits of the consequences I am liable to accept. Thank you for finally admitting my freedom to act like a jerk as I please.

I'm saying you can act like a jerk, just don't complain when you get yelled at for doing certain things. I'm not saying you have to "impress" anyone, just that you are among other people and should at least follow standard rules of conduct. Personally, I don't really care about the guests either, but that doesn't mean I'm going to run up to them acting like a moron either. Doing things like jumping on random people, messing with other's property, or otherwise harassing others shouldn't be tolerated at Fanime just because it's a con. If a staff person finds what you're doing unacceptable, then they're going to tell you so and you'll have to face the consequences. It might not be a "law" but you don't have a "right" to be at the con either. So do whatever, but if you're bothering me, I'll report your ass.

Bothering you personally, as I have already stated is harassment, and is illegal. I have already said that I have the right to act like a jerk or an idiot within legal confines. I'm just pissed off, because so many of you misconstrue idiocy and harassment. You can harass people without being an idiot, and you can be an idiot without harassing people. I have nothing to prove to anyone. I'm not going to go up to guests and harass them, but I'm not going to stop running around in circles around a column like a maniac or play insane games of hide-and-seek just because they're there either. I never said harassment should be tolerated at fanime. I say that idiocy, moronity, and jerkish behaviour SHOULD be tolerated at Fanime (at least within its official rules and regulations, if not by individuals).

Okay, at this point... it's just confusion with the use of the word "idiot". The word was brought up INITIALLY to describe the actions of the people doing them. It then progressed to using it to describe the behavior pertaining the right to freedom.

It's idiotic to harass people, in one sense. In the other sense, it's okay to act like an idiot when it's just you being yourself. The two uses of "idiot" have almost nothing to do with each other.

God damn. @_@

[Long]

If people acted civil just enough not to bother others, then no one has to boss and scold the other party with unnecessary rules.

AGAIN, it isn't glomping that's the issue. It's the people. If people can handle the situation and improve, then there's less of a problem.

I notice the argument that "If the glompers hadn't glomped everyone without permission, then rules wouldn't need to be made." has been used a lot. The point is, that glompers did cause this to be a problem, and we need a solution for it. There's no point in saying "if" or thinking that they brought it upon themselves. People won't know it's wrong unless you inform them. We can't just expect everyone to change on their own, or as a result of this thread. We must educate the masses! 8D

We need a solution that will make everyone with half a brain or more happy (meaning ignoring those who won't settle for compromise).

Okay, at this point... it's just confusion with the use of the word "idiot". The word was brought up INITIALLY to describe the actions of the people doing them. It then progressed to using it to describe the behavior pertaining the right to freedom.

It's idiotic to harass people, in one sense. In the other sense, it's okay to act like an idiot when it's just you being yourself. The two uses of "idiot" have almost nothing to do with each other.

God damn. @_@

I've been using the characteristic form of "idiot" the entire time in my arguments. >__>; The English language needs to be clearer. xP

[fold]

keep fighting the good fight long<3

While non-consensual glomping is irritating- theres nothing you can do about it, except report your own cases. I love glompers and I think that the interaction that goes on in fanime is special- its a bunch of dorks- dorking out in a way that does not happen in everyday society. You don't just walk down the streets of your town- or city as you may have it- and see handsome boys dressed as wantunuki, or pretty girls dress as chii, or anybody dressed like a pocky or wii-mote. at fanime we connect even just through the way we dress- or the games we play of the screening we may find ourselves in.

those who have "gone for ten years" and "this is not what makes fanime what it is" are the old geezers yelling at the teenagers for what they've done to rock n' roll- get over it- WE'RE IN YOR FANIME EATIN YOR POCKY!!!!
loves! 

No, I will not "get over it." Glomping randomly and "rock and roll" are not the same thing by a long shot. There's nothing wrong with connecting with people, but if I cosplay for Fanime I am doing so to show my love for anime and to show off my sewing skills. This does not mean I want people to touch me!!! How hard is this to understand? I agree with Moonblossom; I shouldn't have to spend my time at the con watching out for people who, aside from making me feel uncomfortable, could cause damage to me and/or my property. I think most cosplayers, especially the ones with more elaborate costumes, feel the same way. I have NO PROBLEM with people who ask. I will not tolerate being ambushed. And Fanime needs to try and keep these people in check before someone gets hurt and sues.

I'm sorry, but to me, being an anime fan automatically implies that you are in some way idiotic. They very nature of most anime characters are idiotic, and anime fans usually try to act as much like their character as they possibly can, hence cosplaying and the like.

I don't see what the issue is with attention whoring. Again, that's just another characteristic of anime fans. The entire point is to grab as much attention as you can, with your cosplay or whatever. Prostitution, however, is against the law. I have no qualms against the prohibition of that.

Pretty much. Nothing else at Fanime draws much attention for me anymore. It's about being who you are with your friends. All that extra stuff means nothing to me.

I don't know where you get off saying that "anime fans" are all idiotic, attention whoring, and simply cosplay to act like the characters they're dressing as. As you admit, you are clearly not at Fanime for the anime and are not much of a fan of anime, so please don't assume to know how fans act. Some can be more enthuastic than others, and yet still manage to control themselves. I have no idea why you come to Fanime at all.

Sorry, but doing "any crazy shit we wanted to" is usually what leads to anal-retentive rules at cons. You and your friends are a small number of the 12,000+ attendees, plus guests (who may not be from America), dealers, other presenters, and who ever else might be around that is not involved with the con. Certain rules are in place to keep everyone safe and makes the convention center and the city of San Jose want to have Fanime back year after year. As cheesy as it might sound, when you are at a con, you represent anime fans and messing around and causing problems gives other anime fans and Fanime a bad name. Do you think guests from over seas want to come to cons where people are running around and acting like idiots? Coming to a con and being with your friends and other anime fans does not entitle you to act as you please. Everyone should have a good time and still be able to act appropriately. If you and your friends can't do this, than please go elsewhere.

I don't give a damn about overseas guests. If certain people want to make a good impression, they can go ahead and do that, but you shouldn't limit the people that only want to have fun; forcing them to try and live up to some kind of stupid standard just so the other people don't feel like they haven't impressed their favorite guests or whatever. Everyone is different, and they have different ways of expressing themselves. I don't want to impress guests. And I don't give a fuck about the impression I give to the rest of the world or San Jose city. Labels are idiotic and I don't have to represent anything if I don't want to. If I do unintentionally, well it sucks for the people that adhere to that label, but it's not my problem. I act as I please, either at the con, or any place else, and nothing has to entitle me to that. I act appropriately enough not to get kicked out, but I'm sick of people who continue to try to create rules to stop people who just try to be who they are. If I want to act like an idiot, then I can very well act like an idiot if I please. I'm all for limiting the amount of rough-housing, but how the hell do you plan on creating a rule for that without banning it entirely? "Everyone must ask before they glomp." Is all nice and good on paper, but how the hell are you going to enforce it?

I'm just afraid that movements like this, and the banning of the signs (which I think is utterly stupid) is just a precursor for removing aspects of the con that I've always known to be there. I'm far removed from the fandom, and the reason I come to this con is just to hang out with my friends, and act like the idiot I am. It was a comfortable environment, because about 80% of the people there were idiots as well. Now the 20% are trying to enforce strict rules on the others to stop their fun and their freedom. It's basic elitism.

My proposed solution is perhaps informational pamphlets about glomping and perhaps sign usage that may dissuade people from doing it in the wrong manner, or to lay down the rules of etiquette of glomping or other exchanges with other con members. A manners booklet perhaps, before you set down a iron-clad rule. Let the con-goers regulate their own habits, and if they break etiquette, the victim can go to a con moderator to report harassment, or dish out their own punishment.

So basically your a selfish jerk face that doesn't care about anyone except yourself? You may not want to give guest and anyone else at the con a good impression, but most of the attendees do and so does the Fanime staff. When you buy a pass to Fanime, you're agreeing to certain codes of conduct. Being at a con does not mean you have the freedom to do whatever you want. Most people who go to Fanime do regulate themselves, but that doesn't mean there are no rules in place. No one is suggesting that glomping or signs have to go away completely, they just need to be regulated-as you suggest or otherwise- because of the few retards that go overboard. It's true that it will be hard to regulate, but people at least need to be made aware that there is a problem.

If you want to act like a jerk than fine, but don't complain when you get yelled at or thrown out by the staff or volunteers.

it's going to happen anyways- i'm sorry. the best thing you can do is report your individual cases. I WON'T be the one glomping you- so it's no skin off my behind. Glomping isn't banned- signs aren't banned. As far we we've been informed Fanime is the same as last year. If your sign is offensive- they have rules that make it ok for them to tell you to lose it, that has always been the case.
 As for you who have been raped- that is altogether inappropriate to bring up in a public forum, mostly because you're not the only one- and this is not the time nor place. If you have an issue that personal with what i post, you can pm me.
 And i think that the development of rock n' roll is entirely accurate analogy. Fanime has changed from what it used to be to the "old timers" if you dont like it, don't listen- or bring your own tunes. Cause you can't you can't change what we listen to- sorry our music is more fun then yours.
<3 paje

[fold]

quoted from jun, "Don't tell others to just get over it because you're a retarded weeaboo that feels the need to touch people who don't want to be touched. They don't have to, and if they wanted to, they could make it more of a problem because it's technically against the law. How about I light up a cigarette and start following you around and blowing my crap in your direction, and once I'm done, how about I put it out on your face. Got a problem? Get over it.

But I know better and know that things aren't done this way."

I personally don't touch other people. And if you follow me around with your cigarette, well first of all, the cigarette doesn't bother me, but if you put it out in my face and i punch/report you- thats my choice, but i can't stop you if you're going to do it.

[Moonblossom]

It's a perfectly valid argument as to why I'm so adamantly against random glomps which is totally relative to this discussion. Rape is not something to be hidden or shushed up or discussed behind closed doors. If there's a rule somewhere against me talking about something that happened to me and shaped part of who I am, feel free to report my post, but I'm not going to bother PMing someone when I can post in the public forum and allow everyone to discuss it openly.

I don't recall claiming anywhere that I was the only person on the planet to ever have been sexually assaulted so I have no idea what that part of your argument is about, just saying that it really upsets me to get randomly touched by strangers because of it.

If it's happened to someone else and they don't want to discuss it, that's their business. But for me talking openly is the only way to get power over things that terrify me.

Honestly, this thread is full of idiocy at this point, I've said all I have to say, you can continue to try to defend this asinine behaviour all you like. I'm just going to report anyone who touches me in a way that makes me uncomfortable.

[Xeluu]

If people acted civil just enough not to bother others, then no one has to boss and scold the other party with unnecessary rules.

AGAIN, it isn't glomping that's the issue. It's the people. If people can handle the situation and improve, then there's less of a problem.

I notice the argument that "If the glompers hadn't glomped everyone without permission, then rules wouldn't need to be made." has been used a lot. The point is, that glompers did cause this to be a problem, and we need a solution for it. There's no point in saying "if" or thinking that they brought it upon themselves. People won't know it's wrong unless you inform them. We can't just expect everyone to change on their own, or as a result of this thread. We must educate the masses! 8D

We need a solution that will make everyone with half a brain or more happy (meaning ignoring those who won't settle for compromise).

Actually, many of them DO know it's wrong, and continue to glomp without permission. Example, last year  I was acting as a handler for my sister who was in costume, trying to keep an eye out for people who were going to attempt to glomp her from behind since she had limited vision in her costume. I missed two people who came up and did a DOUBLE GLOMP FROM BEHIND. So of course we told them off, the gist of what we said was that they could seriously hurt someone, they needed to ask, etc.

So what happened? They go off, and less than five minutes later I see them doing it to someone else. In fact, they're probably the ones who glomped me from behind when I was mudkip, almost knocked me down, and then ran off before I could see who did it.

So, I think the issue is that fans need to work together to keep this from happening. If you see someone glomp someone without asking, tell them that they need to ask, even if you're not in costume. If enough people tell them, MAYBE they'll get the point. I know I'll be writing down badge numbers this year and potentially reporting people.

Heck, when you see someone running you probably need to tell them to walk. But I think that much we can leave up to the Rovers.

And i think that the development of rock n' roll is entirely accurate analogy. Fanime has changed from what it used to be to the "old timers" if you dont like it, don't listen- or bring your own tunes. Cause you can't you can't change what we listen to- sorry our music is more fun then yours.

I really don't think it's an accurate analogy either. Yes, Fanime has change, but the Rock n' Roll change wasn't detrimental to people's wellbeing. Not sure how to accurately phrase what I mean, but I'm hoping you get the gist.

So, I DO think it's time something got changed, and I think it's time to stop the arguing back and forth of "deal with it" "I don't have to, it's assault", and it's time to work together on a solution.

Example: On the TV screens that have random announcements around the Con, maybe have them show a list of Common Courtesies and a Code of Conduct.

What do the rest of you think?

[dj seifer]

There's always pepper spray.

[Mister_E]

*claps* OHHH that sounds fun, even more than Stun Guns!