Best of...ROMANTIC DRAMA

[PyronIkari]

OK, I can see your point of view.  I personally see Hana Yori Dango more as "coming of age shoujo".  From my point of view, it's a story of Makoto finding herself in this weird rich-kid school and figuring how out deal or fit in with the various cliques and people (both male and female).  In doing so, she also gets more insight into who she is, what her strengths and weaknesses are, when and how to stand up for herself, and what things might just need to be accepted as being simply beyond her control.  I think the romances are a significant part of the story because the social environment in reality does still seem to think that romance should play a significant part of a girl's growing up, but I personally consider the show to fit better under "coming of age shoujo" than "romantic drama".

I honestly... don't get how you can possibly see it as that. The entire story revolves around the actions. Makino(you meant Makino right... not Makoto?) becomes a target. And Domyouji ends up falling for her and the story revolves around Domyouji justifying his dating her, without losing the respect and title of his peers. Makino's position of trying to change that. Realistically, if Domyouji didn't have a thing for her, she would have been screwed, and the ending probably would have ended with her being forced out of the school, killing herself, or living an incredibly miserable school life of being ignored, constant torment, and absolutely no peace of mind at all. She is a nobody, that tried to fight against a juggernaut, only the juggernaut fell in love with her. Frankly, EVERYTHING in the story was beyond her control. She was at the whim of the group. So if by coming of age you mean "if you're not liked by the popular kids, you're completely screwed no matter what you do, unless you luck out and one of them has a thing for you, and is willing to go for it despite what it will do to his image"(which I hope to god you don't really think that's what coming of age means to you)...

It's about an unlikely love story and the troubles and tribulations between two different people.

[Nyxyin]

I honestly... don't get how you can possibly see it as that. The entire story revolves around the actions. Makino(you meant Makino right... not Makoto?) becomes a target.

Yes, I meant Makino.  It's been very many years since I saw the anime.  As I recall, Makino doesn't "become" a target.  She stands up for her friend.  It's her decision.

And Domyouji ends up falling for her and the story revolves around Domyouji justifying his dating her, without losing the respect and title of his peers.

I thought that was much, much later.  I seem to recall Makino having to make friends with some girls first and being shown how to dress and act polite and fit into the society instead of just being loud and obnoxious and acting like poor white trash (or the Japanese equivalent).

Frankly, EVERYTHING in the story was beyond her control.

She had total control over how and whether she stood up for her friend or not in the first place.  There are more "mature" ways of fighting back, and I just remember having the impression that she figures it out.  I think Domyouji grows up a lot over the course of the anime too.

It's about an unlikely love story and the troubles and tribulations between two different people.

It's far more troubles and tribulations than love.  I don't think very much of it was about love and romance at all.  From what I remember, they hated each other, and then they suddenly found themselves in love and facing all these circumstances.  I just remember it being far more about the social circumstances than their relationship or their feelings.  I don't tend to think of soap operas as "romantic drama" -- they're more about the circumstances (ie troubles and tribulations), and I thought this was very much a "soap opera".

[PyronIkari]

And you just state that it's been a long time since you've seen it. Not the same for me, as there has been multiple incarnations of it over the past years, and I have too many female friends that are way into it not to mention you seem to not get the whole circle and how the bullying/targeting etc. work. This just goes back to "bullying in Japan is NOT the same as in the states" and you seem to assume it is.

[Nyxyin]

you seem to not get the whole circle and how the bullying/targeting etc. work. This just goes back to "bullying in Japan is NOT the same as in the states" and you seem to assume it is.

I don't see how that follows.  You seem to be supporting my position that it's not that much of a romantic drama.  I was partly saying that Hana Yori Dango far more about the circumstances (such as the bullying) than the romance.

[Nyxyin]

This just goes back to "bullying in Japan is NOT the same as in the states" and you seem to assume it is.

It just occurred to me that you might be the one assuming American definitions in this case.  By "mature ways of fighting back", I didn't mean the immature boorish American boy ways of "fighting back".  I meant rising above and playing their game better than they can and setting a good example until you shame some of them into acknowledging your worth, and then using the help of the people who acknowledge you to help turn the tide.  Makino starts off by using immature American boy ways of fighting back, like shouting, calling people names, throwing things, and being confrontational, and I think Makino "grows up" by learning how to work within the rules of the society she finds herself in.

[PyronIkari]

you seem to not get the whole circle and how the bullying/targeting etc. work. This just goes back to "bullying in Japan is NOT the same as in the states" and you seem to assume it is.

I don't see how that follows.  You seem to be supporting my position that it's not that much of a romantic drama.  I was partly saying that Hana Yori Dango far more about the circumstances (such as the bullying) than the romance.

Not at all, because you are seeing it as growing to deal with these things, but her position didn't follow that path at all. You don't seem to understand that there's really no way to actually combat Japanese bullying. Fighting back makes things worse. Standing up to bullies... puts you in a horrible horrible position.

Besides... the whole bullying, and issues concerning that stopped about half-way through, and became about the two getting together.

Makino didn't change in the series at all... ... ...

Beginning to end she was the same person. Others changed in the story, but not her. Domoyoji changed because of Makino, because he opened up and saw more through his love with her. The main focus of the story was her relationship with Domoyoji, everything was a setup for them to get closer(and further apart). Every situation she went to was for her to get closer to him, even if "closer" wasn't necessarilly a good thing at times.

[Nyxyin]

You don't seem to understand that there's really no way to actually combat Japanese bullying.

His and Her Circumstances, Yukino vs. Maho and Tsubasa.

[PyronIkari]

You don't seem to understand that there's really no way to actually combat Japanese bullying.

His and Her Circumstances, Yukino vs. Maho and Tsubasa.

An incredibly unrealistic cartoon involving "Perfect people" and charms that don't really exist in the real world. Perfect acting, and even then, the bullying in the series wasn't really pushed to a real level, and only used as a gateway for them to all become friends.

[Nyxyin]

You don't seem to understand that there's really no way to actually combat Japanese bullying.

His and Her Circumstances, Yukino vs. Maho and Tsubasa.

An incredibly unrealistic cartoon involving "Perfect people" and charms that don't really exist in the real world. Perfect acting, and even then, the bullying in the series wasn't really pushed to a real level, and only used as a gateway for them to all become friends.

And the wealth in Hana Yori Dango is realistic?  They're such brats only because they're unrealistically rich.  Acting like Yukino can be done.  My boyfriend, my mom, and both my grandparents on my mom's side all do it very frighteningly well.  (My dad and I are much more like Arima, only without money and without the problems that Arima had from the manga.)  Most of the real people I went to college with were more "perfect" than the manga Yukino and Arima in that we didn't end up as teenaged parents.  I thought His and Her Circumstances (the anime, not the manga) was actually very realistic.  Such "charms" do exist in the real world, and I think some understanding of how they work is an essential survival skill.

[Jun-Watarase]

You don't seem to understand that there's really no way to actually combat Japanese bullying.

His and Her Circumstances, Yukino vs. Maho and Tsubasa.

Okay... At first, it seemed pointless to discuss whether or not HYD is a romantic drama, but this comment really bugged me. I understand that the concept of "Japanese bullying" may be foreign to you, but are you SERIOUSLY basing real-life bullying with KareKano? Not only is it an ANIME, but it wasn't meant to be realistic. If you're comparing actual life to unrealistic anime (Especially like KareKano), I highly advise you to take a step outside of your door. =/

You don't seem to understand that there's really no way to actually combat Japanese bullying.

His and Her Circumstances, Yukino vs. Maho and Tsubasa.

An incredibly unrealistic cartoon involving "Perfect people" and charms that don't really exist in the real world. Perfect acting, and even then, the bullying in the series wasn't really pushed to a real level, and only used as a gateway for them to all become friends.

And the wealth in Hana Yori Dango is realistic?  They're such brats only because they're unrealistically rich.  Acting like Yukino can be done.  My boyfriend, my mom, and both my grandparents on my mom's side all do it very frighteningly well.  (My dad and I are much more like Arima, only without money and without the problems that Arima had from the manga.)  Most of the real people I went to college with were more "perfect" than the manga Yukino and Arima in that we didn't end up as teenaged parents.  I thought His and Her Circumstances (the anime, not the manga) was actually very realistic.  Such "charms" do exist in the real world, and I think some understanding of how they work is an essential survival skill.

So, you're comparing the... wealth in HYD to real life, rather than the plot/emotions/reactions/actions? Neither anime series is realistic enough to properly function in the real world, but given the circumstances, HYD is WAY more realistic than KareKano. As for said "charms" existing in the real world... they exist with deeper motives, planning, and observation if one can pull it off, but not purely through perfection and timing. If you truly believe they're as simple as they are in anime (KareKano), then you're thinking of a REALLY shallow world.

[PyronIkari]

And the wealth in Hana Yori Dango is realistic?  They're such brats only because they're unrealistically rich.  Acting like Yukino can be done.  My boyfriend, my mom, and both my grandparents on my mom's side all do it very frighteningly well.  (My dad and I are much more like Arima, only without money and without the problems that Arima had from the manga.)  Most of the real people I went to college with were more "perfect" than the manga Yukino and Arima in that we didn't end up as teenaged parents.  I thought His and Her Circumstances (the anime, not the manga) was actually very realistic.  Such "charms" do exist in the real world, and I think some understanding of how they work is an essential survival skill.

Not that I said Hana Yori Dango is realistic, but...

You seem to not know any rich kids. Their attitudes, and how they're praised, seen etc. isn't... that unusual.

KareKano is super unrealistic in everything it does. Having basic understanding of peoples, and acting exist, but not to the extent it's done. My main point was about how the bullying in Hana Yori Dango was decently realistic, and that it wasn't realistic in KareKano.

I didn't think I'd have to explain it though.

KareKano's bullying of Yukino ended with nothing. Tsubasa just decided to start liking Yukino, and the class decided to just jump ship for no reason. Well here's the thing. Yukino is godly intelligent, manipulative, and was extremely popular. She would never had been a target to begin with, you'd be stupid to try and do so. Putting on masks is easy, but to that extent is inhuman. A perfect act, where your entire life plays the part. You have to accept and live your life as a lie, which, despite your claims, I know isn't true with you, nor your father. You're claiming, that you and your father are super prodigies,  capable of learning and mastering anything in a few months of trying. Capable of closing off half of your emotion completely, and not letting it affect how you act in the rest of the world. Yeah, I don't buy it.

I know plenty of 4.0 college grads, at all kinds of different colleges. You know what it took though? A whole crapload of studying, and a lot of commitment and effort. Not joining a bunch of different sports/clubs/student council, while having a girlfriend, and still getting perfect scores, winning sports tournaments, and having all kinds of social and mental issues that disappeared in public.

Your thinking KareKano is realistic... just reflects how you think HanaYoriDango is not a romance based drama, and how you think you and your father are more capable and what not than Arima was. You're dillusional.

KareKano is extremely unrealistic, and wasn't meant to be realistic. Hana Yori Dango isn't meant to be realistic either(overall). That's the charm of the series, that they're extremely unrealistic reflections of life.

[Nyxyin]

You don't seem to understand that there's really no way to actually combat Japanese bullying.

His and Her Circumstances, Yukino vs. Maho and Tsubasa.

Okay... At first, it seemed pointless to discuss whether or not HYD is a romantic drama, but this comment really bugged me. I understand that the concept of "Japanese bullying" may be foreign to you, but are you SERIOUSLY basing real-life bullying with KareKano? Not only is it an ANIME, but it wasn't meant to be realistic.

I'm saying that's a method of "fighting back".  Yes, it's simplified, but I didn't think it took that much imagination to stretch the concept into something that would work in real life: that one way to "fight back" is to convince people to like you or respect you.

If you're comparing actual life to unrealistic anime (Especially like KareKano), I highly advise you to take a step outside of your door. =/

If Hana Yori Dango was being held as a "realistic" example of bullying, then Kare Kano is just as "realistic".

So, you're comparing the... wealth in HYD to real life, rather than the plot/emotions/reactions/actions? Neither anime series is realistic enough to properly function in the real world, but given the circumstances, HYD is WAY more realistic than KareKano.

I personally find Yukino's and Arima's emotions in the anime version of Kare Kano to be far more realistic than anything any of the Hana Yori Dango kids experience.  Anno interviewed real people as the basis for his interpretation of Kare Kano, and I got the impression that he did go through some of that too.  Tsuda didn't understand her characters, and she didn't mean the Kare Kano manga to be realistic, but Anno did.  The anime was brilliant, and if you combine my high school and college experiences with my boyfriend's, you get something very similar to Kare Kano.

As for said "charms" existing in the real world... they exist with deeper motives, planning, and observation if one can pull it off, but not purely through perfection and timing. If you truly believe they're as simple as they are in anime (KareKano), then you're thinking of a REALLY shallow world.

True, the portrayal of Yukino's "I want people to praise me" is very simplified, but when dissecting all those "deeper  motives" of people who do such things, if they're truly and completely honest with themselves, from a certain point of view, with an objective enough perspective, those "deeper motives" mostly boil down to that.

KareKano's bullying of Yukino ended with nothing. Tsubasa just decided to start liking Yukino, and the class decided to just jump ship for no reason.

It's not "for not reason" at all.  Yukino's behavior had everything to do with why Tsubasa started liking her and why the class decided to jump ship.  The way girls "fight back" is to convince people to like us.

Yukino is godly intelligent, manipulative, and was extremely popular. She would never had been a target to begin with

Humans are very whimsical, and when people are banking on popularity, they have to realize that.  Yukino became a target because her standing slipped.  She stopped getting the scores that marked her as "godly intelligent", and she exposed herself as manipulative.  Manipulative people just aren't popular if people know they're being manipulated, and there's bound to be a backlash.

I know plenty of 4.0 college grads, at all kinds of different colleges. You know what it took though? A whole crapload of studying, and a lot of commitment and effort. Not joining a bunch of different sports/clubs/student council, while having a girlfriend, and still getting perfect scores, winning sports tournaments, and having all kinds of social and mental issues that disappeared in public.

Except that Kare Kano takes place in high school.  There were a half dozen of us during high school that did exactly that.  By the time I graduated from high school, I had trivially aced 14 AP classes, won several district-wide math and chess competitions (I was the math team captain), placed third in the district in varsity tennis (first for my own school), candystriped at a hospital on weekends, won several piano competitions, got hazed into the service/sororiety club (and decorated floats for the Rose Parade), was student body treasurer, tutored friends in a variety of classes, and played violin in the orchestra.  I also sort of had a boyfriend: I didn't count him as a boyfriend (and I certainly didn't have sex with him), but he puppy-dogged after me, came over to my house, studied with me, met my parents, took me to the prom, etc.  And there were at least three males and another female that had more impressive resumes than I did by the end of high school.

I don't think Yukino had any mental or social issues beyond what's normal for any teenager.  During the anime, Arima didn't have any particularly odd mental or social issues either.  It's only in the manga that Arima was a psychological mess.

how you think you and your father are more capable and what not than Arima was.

It's not just me and my father.  A lot of people are easily better than Arima.  Our student body president and class valedictorian got full scholarships to both MIT and Harvard based on merit alone.  (He chose Harvard.)  He was #1 in the district in tennis, a National Merit Scholar, and first violin in orchestra.  He also did a bunch of service projects and tutored everybody that asked.  He was very popular, and he went through three girlfriends during high school (that I know of).  His dad is also a doctor, and his mom is a lawyer, so his parents are quite respectable and well-off.  Other than the angsty manga flaws, what does Arima have that he didn't have?

[PyronIkari]

If Hana Yori Dango was being held as a "realistic" example of bullying, then Kare Kano is just as "realistic".

No it isn't. You've proven you don't know jack about Japanese bullying already, and have said you didn't. Not to mention I've already explained out why Yukino would have never been a target in the first place. It was a plot device only for them to become friends, with a strong bond.

I personally find Yukino's and Arima's emotions in the anime version of Kare Kano to be far more realistic than anything any of the Hana Yori Dango kids experience.  Anno interviewed real people as the basis for his interpretation of Kare Kano, and I got the impression that he did go through some of that too.  Tsuda didn't understand her characters, and she didn't mean the Kare Kano manga to be realistic, but Anno did.  The anime was brilliant, and if you combine my high school and college experiences with my boyfriend's, you get something very similar to Kare Kano.

And what you personally find, doesn't equate to squat. Tsuda... understood her characters perfectly, as they acted and performed exactly what she wanted to show. Your life, was full of unrealistic drama, with rock stars, school beauties, angsty over dramatic kids, that never showed their problems to anyone(though you some how found out despite their perfect act), award winning on a national level writer friends, incestual relationships, etc.? Kare Kano's characters from cartoon to comic, didn't change very much at all. The writing and the condensing yes... but the characters themselves didn't change.

You get basic ideas in real life that can refelct what happens in KareKano, but what happens in KareKano is so extremely unrealistic that it becomes a parody of real life, not a show of real life. The characters were made in such extremes. Basic themes and ideas can reflect real life, the actual situations and characters, could not. It was not realistic, and you are seriously grasping on straws by claiming that it is.

Humans are very whimsical, and when people are banking on popularity, they have to realize that.  Yukino became a target because her standing slipped.  She stopped getting the scores that marked her as "godly intelligent", and she exposed herself as manipulative.  Manipulative people just aren't popular if people know they're being manipulated, and there's bound to be a backlash.

Oh... you don't think that students know they aren't being manipulated in this way? You don't think any of the students go "Hey, our 'leader' is basically controlling me and that I'm just a total tool that is following along". Sorry to break this to you, but a lot of the time, they know, and follow anyways. Atleast Hana Yori Dango showed this to an extent. People telling her not to fight back, people looking at her and then turning their faces with an obvious "I know it's wrong but I can't do anything about it" look. Her standing slip? She was still a top student though, just not #2. Hell, this isn't even true in the US. She was never exposed of to be totally manipulative, just not exactly what she was thought to be. Instead of being perfect, people saw she was just, really amazing. She didn't change. She still did the things she was doing before... the only thing changed in the picture was Arima. That was the keypoint that was used as their revolt, her being with Arima.

Which in itself is totally unrealistic. The basis was it, wasn't to show bullying or how it worked, or to be realistic in any way shape or form. It was a plot device for them to become friends.

Except that Kare Kano takes place in high school.  There were a half dozen of us during high school that did exactly that.  By the time I graduated from high school, I had trivially aced 14 AP classes, won several district-wide math and chess competitions (I was the math team captain), placed third in the district in varsity tennis (first for my own school), candystriped at a hospital on weekends, won several piano competitions, got hazed into the service/sororiety club (and decorated floats for the Rose Parade), was student body treasurer, tutored friends in a variety of classes, and played violin in the orchestra.  I also sort of had a boyfriend: I didn't count him as a boyfriend (and I certainly didn't have sex with him), but he puppy-dogged after me, came over to my house, studied with me, met my parents, took me to the prom, etc.  And there were at least three males and another female that had more impressive resumes than I did by the end of high school.

I don't think Yukino had any mental or social issues beyond what's normal for any teenager.  During the anime, Arima didn't have any particularly odd mental or social issues either.  It's only in the manga that Arima was a psychological mess.

Uh... ... ... Arima didn't have any mental or social issues? ... ... ...Now I know you don't know what you're talking about.

Yes, now, are you going to say that US schools and JP high schools are exactly the same? Besides curriculum level(US public school ranks pretty low in terms of difficulty), time span of classes, days per week, amount of work assigned, club hours and dedication, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Are you going to tell me, you put all of these into consideration when you decided to compare yourself with Japanese High School students who are in sports clubs etc? Not to mention that both Arima and Yukino admitted they weren't naturally smart, and they only got to that point through hours upon hours of studying? Though, you seem to do a decent job proving you're "smart" it goes to show you, "smart" doesn't equate to intelligence, and doesn't reflect your social analytical skills.

It's not just me and my father.  A lot of people are easily better than Arima.  Our student body president and class valedictorian got full scholarships to both MIT and Harvard based on merit alone.  (He chose Harvard.)  He was #1 in the district in tennis, a National Merit Scholar, and first violin in orchestra.  He also did a bunch of service projects and tutored everybody that asked.  He was very popular, and he went through three girlfriends during high school (that I know of).  His dad is also a doctor, and his mom is a lawyer, so his parents are quite respectable and well-off.  Other than the angsty manga flaws, what does Arima have that he didn't have?

... You realize that the angsty problems... is what made Arima, Arima. They existed in the comic, otherwise there would have been no conflict between him and Yukino once they both started going out(which there was). His issues was why he was a main character.

You seem to be completely missing huge chunks of what you read and analyze, and decide to fill it in with whatever you want... to reflect your own life. Citing comparison of comic to real world, only works... if you understand what is happening in the comic and its real world comparison. When you compare things but take out major factors, or compare things to unrealistic examples, it doesn't work.

Yukino and Arima are impossible characters in that they can put on a perfect mask, despite their real lives and problems outside of the social setting. I know people that are good at this, but it's impossible to be perfect. Arima was barely holding his own mentallity together, and lived only for his foster parents, and never showed a sign of weakness or pain, ever. Afterwards he was able to still be a top student while spending all his free time with his friends(which would only be like 2 hours a night at best maybe 5 or 6 on saturday, and Sunday). Yukino is the same. The character with the perfect mask. After her change, nothing really changed at all with her school life, her real life change was that, she had friends instead of spending her life studying. Yet she was still at the top despite her barely studying anymore, spending her time with her new friends and Arima etc.

Hana Yori Dango was unrealistic in that she ends up with the super rich popular boy being the outcast girl that was the target of the school. There's no doubt about that Hana Yori Dango was unrealistic. It portrayed some real life things better, but it wasn't realistic. But KareKano was just as unrealistic, if not more unrealistic. Most JP comics and cartoons are.

It's hard for me to even think of any decent series that are realistic to be honest. Genshiken is all I can think of off the top of my head.

[JohnnyAR]

Alright, so can anyone tell me the most realistic romance series there is?

[PyronIkari]

Alright, so can anyone tell me the most realistic romance series there is?

None... because if it was realistic, it'd be boring and no one would want to watch it.

I's did extremely well in portraying what characters feel in relationships, and how thinking certain ways, and not having the balls to talk about it causes problems within them.

KareKano did decently well in displaying the individual sides of a relationship(in that a relationship is about 2 people with 2 different lives, that share a lot of that with each other, not two people with one life).

Maison Ikkoku did extremely well in showing the growing of two people and showing how the past affects love, and how falling in love doesn't betray your love in the past.

Kimagure Orange road did extremely well in showing the complexity of the individuals in a relationship, through different trials and tribulations.

Lots of different series portray different things well. None of them are realistic, because without the crazy unrealistic plot push, things would be boring to watch.

[JohnnyAR]

Do you know of one that teaches that opposites attract?

[PyronIkari]

All of them?

The majority of series are about an unlikely relationship between two people that shouldn't get together. That's why 99% of the time, the lead is a loser or anti-social, or some kind of retarded.

[Jun-Watarase]

Er, off-topic... but pertaining the whole bullying bit. Some of Azreal's blogs on GaijinSmash on bullying are worth reading.

http://www.gaijinsmash.net/archives/bullying.phtml

http://www.gaijinsmash.net/archives/bullying_another_look.phtml

[Nyxyin]

Er, off-topic... but pertaining the whole bullying bit. Some of Azreal's blogs on GaijinSmash on bullying are worth reading.
http://www.gaijinsmash.net/archives/bullying.phtml
http://www.gaijinsmash.net/archives/bullying_another_look.phtml

That was fascinating.  Thanks for the links.

Still, he was referring to "Ghetto School".  I was at a US "Ghetto School" for a year, and kids were doing rather annoying things, and teachers were supporting them.  For example, a boy threw gum in my hair (I have very long hair), and when I complained to the teacher, she laughed and told me that being a tattle-tale is bad.  My brother was part of a candy-selling fund raiser, and some gang held him at gun point and took his money.  Nobody did anything about that either: what can you do about someone with a gun?  It's just life in the ghettos, and that's why it's so important to be able to get out of it.  At first, my mom sent us to private school, but it was about an hour and a half each way to get to the private school.  Then, my mom borrowed someone else's address and phone number to send us to a different public school that's just outside the area, and we had to remember and write down this other address and phone number every time the school gave us a form to fill out.

With all that bullying and automated grade advancement no matter how poorly kids did, did Pyron seriously try to say that the Japanese education system is better than ours...?  Our elite can probably easily toast their elite any day, and it's probably why so many people work so hard to come to America for college.  It's just that we have a lot of ghettos that drive down our statistics.  In order to be good, we have to leave the bad behind, and we can't let all the dead weight drag us down.

[Jun-Watarase]

Er, off-topic... but pertaining the whole bullying bit. Some of Azreal's blogs on GaijinSmash on bullying are worth reading.
http://www.gaijinsmash.net/archives/bullying.phtml
http://www.gaijinsmash.net/archives/bullying_another_look.phtml

That was fascinating.  Thanks for the links.

Still, he was referring to "Ghetto School".  I was at a US "Ghetto School" for a year, and kids were doing rather annoying things, and teachers were supporting them.  For example, a boy threw gum in my hair (I have very long hair), and when I complained to the teacher, she laughed and told me that being a tattle-tale is bad.  My brother was part of a candy-selling fund raiser, and some gang held him at gun point and took his money.  Nobody did anything about that either: what can you do about someone with a gun?  It's just life in the ghettos, and that's why it's so important to be able to get out of it.  At first, my mom sent us to private school, but it was about an hour and a half each way to get to the private school.  Then, my mom borrowed someone else's address and phone number to send us to a different public school that's just outside the area, and we had to remember and write down this other address and phone number every time the school gave us a form to fill out.

With all that bullying and automated grade advancement no matter how poorly kids did, did Pyron seriously try to say that the Japanese education system is better than ours...?  Our elite can probably easily toast their elite any day, and it's probably why so many people work so hard to come to America for college.  It's just that we have a lot of ghettos that drive down our statistics.  In order to be good, we have to leave the bad behind, and we can't let all the dead weight drag us down.

By "Ghetto School", it's sort of an inside reference exclusive to his blog, not really referring to actual ghetto schools. In his entries, he talked about bullying in school, how it affects him, and how he perceives it. He also talks about the conditions that allow these sorts of things to happen, and why the school system can't do anything about it. Thing is, this sort of mentality applies to all schools and the entire country as a whole. It isn't just students that face these sorts of problems. High suicide rates in Japan aren't limited to just students-- even with adults the same type of bullying carries on.

You're talking about asshat teachers that support poor behavior, because to them, it's kids being kids and they're too lazy to do anything about it. What happens in Japan, though... they DON'T support it, but they can't do anything about it. The student, in Japan, has a right to their education. The teacher can't punish them, otherwise, it'd be violating that right. Teachers have no say in it, and as mentioned in the entry, when teachers did intervene, it'd either make things worse or cause a riot. People are afraid to do anything, because it causes trouble, because they're unable to do anything, anyway.

And actually, in comparison to EVERY major country, American curriculums are significantly easier, whereas Japanese education is very strict (in terms of academics). I'm not trying to trying to say "Japan is way better bonzai!!!", rather, it's not a lie to say that Japanese schools are more difficult than typical American schools.

Generally, in Asia and especially Japan and China, academics are very strict. You have to work from middle school (HARDER than you would in an American HIGH SCHOOL) to get into a decent high school. Even after that, you have to work to get into a decent college. In America, you typically don't have to work as hard or worry nearly as much. As for people working to get into American colleges and universities, that's because of the country. America is the leading country of the world, English is the international business language, and there's more of a variety of schools to attend based on personal preferences. As for Japan, it's a relatively small country with little variety in schools and universities to attend, and not everyone wants to learn Japanese to go to school as it isn't as necessary to learn as English is. Also, if you didn't know... if you are a Japanese citizen, it is actually more difficult to be accepted by a Japanese university by law.

Any other explanation to back up this point was already mentioned before. You seem to have the idea that America and Japan are similar, though. They're not.

EDIT: Oh and uh, grats on the 100 post mark. :Q