Maid Cafe

[ph1shf00d]

This is such a poor analogy I don't even know why you stated it. You're comparing end result, to doing something because of getting to where the costume while doing it. It's like stating "I want to be a fireman... because I like what the costume looks like". Your example is. "Eating a cake you baked yourself is good".

Why?  Because they're similar enough.  They're certainly not the same, but regardless, both require plenty of work in order to produce a good result.  For cosplay, it's a good costume.  For a maid cafe, it's an authentic experience/excellent customer service.  The focus isn't on who is doing what, it's what you'll do in order to produce your desired result. 

Sorry if my lack of debating skills aren't up to your standards. =/ 

You still don't get it do you? You go into something with a mentallity. People are going into this with a mentallity of "OH HEY IT'S FUN MAID CAFE I DRESS UPS AND I ACT CUTES IT WILL BE SO AWESOMES!" despite not knowing a damned thing about what they have to do, how they're supposed to act, the entire point and purpose, or anything like that. It's not about crushing enthusiasm, it's about making people understand what exactly they're doing. Want to know a major issue with last year? Maid's complained because they felt it was sexist and degrading to call customers "master". LOOK AT THE JOB YOU SIGNED UP FOR. You volunteered to be a maid, and you don't want to call someone master? [/size]

What's so wrong with holding that mentality if it's enough to get a good job done?  If people are that determined to have fun dressing in cute clothes and playing the part of a maid in a maid cafe, then as long as they work to the best of their ability and fulfill the standards required of them, is it such a big deal?  If they're willing to learn everything about being a maid in a maid cafe, if they work diligently in all of their training in order to be the most accurate imitation of a maid possible, is it that bad that they were interested in this job because of frilly bows and dresses?

And if they don't know about what working as a maid entails, would it be that terrible to, you know, TEACH them?  I'm sure plenty of people are willing to learn everything they need to learn to make the Maid Cafe accurate as possible.  There will probably be lots of people dropping out once they get some preliminary info, sure, but there will also probably be people who still want to follow through. 

Last year was the first time Fanime did the Maid Cafe so whatever went on then can probably be fixed for this year.  Just because last year's maid weren't as well-trained or informed as they were supposed to be, doesn't mean that this year's volunteers will be the same way.  From what I heard, the Maid Cafe was a fairly popular event despite all of its shortcomings.  There will probably be people who are interested in it again this year.  There might be people who saw all the shortcomings of last year's MC who want to come back this year to try to make it better.  Either way, it's going to be different people and a different way of doing things.

If you have a little "wow fun fun fun this will be fun because I will be cutes and wear a dress" attitude, frankly, I personally don't think you'll do a good job because that attitude reflects a lot of what you think about the project as a whole. Sure, you could be totally different, but hey... I'm looking at it realistically. It's like someone going into a job interview at a game company and going "I love video games, they are my life, they are so great, I want to work on games so much because I love them!" Chances are, they won't get hired, because they show that they think their job is a play field, more than work, and dedication.

Realistically?  Maybe. How about with a more open mind? 

Yes, your attitude can affects how well you do the job.  However, I don't see how enjoying dresses and looking cute is that far detached from working in a maid cafe.  Is it because I'm just another ignorant weeaboo?  Yeah, sure, that might just be it.  That aside, people think maids are endearing, which is probably a part of the reason why maid cafes are so popular.  So when a fangirl thinks working in a maid cafe would be fun because of the attention and because it's "cute," they're not totally far from the truth.  If the volunteer thinks that the job is about wearing pretty dresses and being a cute maid, then let them.  The problem is if they don't pull through with acting the "maid" part and are just in it for the superficial reasons.  But like I said earlier, I really don't think it matters that much what the volunteer thinks if they're willing to work hard to get the maid part down.  If someone is that willing to work that hard to achieve their goal of wearing pretty dresses and acting like a cute maid for a bunch of customers, then where's the problem?

Yes, they can enjoy themselves while working. Here, I'll put it into realistics as to why things like this exist. And hell, I'll even use a great example to retrospect it.

Culture week in Japan. A class puts a maid cafe on as their class theme. Chances are, according to who organizes it, will show the accuracy as to what the maid cafe will be, and as to what they're aiming for. Now, it's a LOT of work for these classes to put these events on, and each class member has to put in a lot of time and effort into doing it. Why do they do it? Because they support and care about their class, and they want to share the experience with friends and classmates... but regardless they go into it, KNOWING there will be a lot of hardwork, and a lot of effort that needs to be put in.

Now in that situation, people are enthusiastic and want to do it, that's great... that's what is supposed to happen and what people are supposed to get out of it.

Let's look at it from a different perspective now. You're throwing a play, and the lead role is a princess. Someone jumps out and goes "I want to do the lead role because I want to wear the princess dress!" Are you going to go "YAY YOU, YOU CAN DO IT THEN!" If you do, then I fear for the casting and production of the play.

Frankly, if her main focus is to wear a maid dress... then her head is definitely in the wrong place when considering joining a project like this, and seriously, she's probably wasting her time and should just wear a made costume and walk around the halls and enjoy the con. If she wants to support the idea/project and work dilligently and learn how to act and actually put a lot of effort into this project, then that's a different story.

If all she wanted to do was to wear a maid dress to a convention, I doubt she would've posted here in the first place.  There's the cosplay forum for that.  Most anime fans have an idea of what a maid cafe is like, even if it isn't perfectly accurate.  However it's portrayed in anime is appealing, and I'm sure plenty of people are interested in learning more about that experience, the people in this thread included.

I think you were taking Jecca's response too literally.  When she says "any excuse to wear a dress," I'm pretty sure she wasn't trying to say "I'm just in it for the pretty dress, screw the hard work."  The maid outfit might be one reason why she wants to participate, but it certainly may not be the only one.  A lot of girls will probably be attracted to the maid cafe because of the dresses, but some of them will probably end up being genuinely interested in the experience of working as a maid too.   But again, just because their initial attraction was because of something superficial, doesn't mean that the rest of their reasons for working in a maid cafe will be the same.

[PyronIkari]

I'm guessing you've never worked a real job before have you?

What's so wrong with holding that mentality if it's enough to get a good job done?  If people are that determined to have fun dressing in cute clothes and playing the part of a maid in a maid cafe, then as long as they work to the best of their ability and fulfill the standards required of them, is it such a big deal?  If they're willing to learn everything about being a maid in a maid cafe, if they work diligently in all of their training in order to be the most accurate imitation of a maid possible, is it that bad that they were interested in this job because of frilly bows and dresses?

And if they don't know about what working as a maid entails, would it be that terrible to, you know, TEACH them?  I'm sure plenty of people are willing to learn everything they need to learn to make the Maid Cafe accurate as possible.  There will probably be lots of people dropping out once they get some preliminary info, sure, but there will also probably be people who still want to follow through.

Last year was the first time Fanime did the Maid Cafe so whatever went on then can probably be fixed for this year.  Just because last year's maid weren't as well-trained or informed as they were supposed to be, doesn't mean that this year's volunteers will be the same way.  From what I heard, the Maid Cafe was a fairly popular event despite all of its shortcomings.  There will probably be people who are interested in it again this year.  There might be people who saw all the shortcomings of last year's MC who want to come back this year to try to make it better.  Either way, it's going to be different people and a different way of doing things.

When you do something, you can't screw it up and go "oh well, it'll be better next year" in the real world... and you CAN'T have that attitude(rather you shouldn't to be literal). You seemed to have not followed what I said. Last year, people were taught what to do on a very basic level, AND THEY COMPLAINED AND MANY REFUSED TO DO IT.

OH But how do you know she'll be like that? That's what you're going to say right? You don't... and that's the point. You don't know if they're going to, or not going to be like that. But the attitude she is showing is not a good one to head into any kind of project like this. If they're excited, or eager to join a project and state a reason that is very minor to that project, it shows their interest... ISN'T the project itself. If she wants to help out fanime and join and do something with others and have fun, then that's one thing. But her statement of reasoning was "I want to put on pretty clothes!" Which realistically shows a lot about her mentallity and her reasonings. She might be a great volunteer, but the attitude she's showing right now isn't a good one.

I "tried" to teach people last year, the basic reply I got was " Go to hell we don't care about you or what you have to say because we don't want to listen". What you're saying is that, Fanime should learn from their mistakes right? Then those volunteering should understand what they're getting into, because last year, it ended up being a problem. There, now we're doing what you said right?

Realistically?  Maybe. How about with a more open mind?

Yes, your attitude can affects how well you do the job.  However, I don't see how enjoying dresses and looking cute is that far detached from working in a maid cafe.  Is it because I'm just another ignorant weeaboo?  Yeah, sure, that might just be it.  That aside, people think maids are endearing, which is probably a part of the reason why maid cafes are so popular.  So when a fangirl thinks working in a maid cafe would be fun because of the attention and because it's "cute," they're not totally far from the truth.  If the volunteer thinks that the job is about wearing pretty dresses and being a cute maid, then let them.  The problem is if they don't pull through with acting the "maid" part and are just in it for the superficial reasons.  But like I said earlier, I really don't think it matters that much what the volunteer thinks if they're willing to work hard to get the maid part down.  If someone is that willing to work that hard to achieve their goal of wearing pretty dresses and acting like a cute maid for a bunch of customers, then where's the problem?

Uhm... when the job is completely customer service, what the maid thinks is very important. How they act, what they're willing to do, not willing to do, personal morals, thoughts, actions, comfort... Yes all of those matter. So "working hard" doesn't mean a thing if they refuse to do parts of the job. Or have an attitude towards doing things.

If all she wanted to do was to wear a maid dress to a convention, I doubt she would've posted here in the first place.  There's the cosplay forum for that.  Most anime fans have an idea of what a maid cafe is like, even if it isn't perfectly accurate.  However it's portrayed in anime is appealing, and I'm sure plenty of people are interested in learning more about that experience, the people in this thread included.

No they don't. It's watered down in anime so you don't realize half of it. Especially according to which cartoons/comics you watch/read. This is a big point of mine. Ignorance. People jump into something because they're ignorant, then bitch and whine when they learn what the job is like.

I think you were taking Jecca's response too literally.  When she says "any excuse to wear a dress," I'm pretty sure she wasn't trying to say "I'm just in it for the pretty dress, screw the hard work."  The maid outfit might be one reason why she wants to participate, but it certainly may not be the only one.  A lot of girls will probably be attracted to the maid cafe because of the dresses, but some of them will probably end up being genuinely interested in the experience of working as a maid too.   But again, just because their initial attraction was because of something superficial, doesn't mean that the rest of their reasons for working in a maid cafe will be the same.

Obviously it wasn't meant to be taken literally, but it is a show of her mindset and mentallity on the project. But it's not hard, simply she can just prove me wrong, and be dilligent about the whole thing and show real interest and a strong mentallity about it all.

Why are you sitting here trying to defend her? Playing internet white knight that fun? Trying to protect a girl to prove something?

[Jerry]

I work in HR (Human Resources) I wonder if some of you are rolling your eyes at me.

Everyday at my job, I work with employees from all walks of life and sometimes the job is a fit and sometimes it isnt.

Being informed and having proper training is very important of course, even in this business I've tried to adapt to make things better... but some changes cant happen over night. Thats just my opinion.

No matter much we try, I know we can't please everyone. Whether its a Anime Convention or a fortune 500 company - try sourcing for Google and having them ACTUALLY selecting my candidate  :D

Just because " I'd like to dress up cute " could be interpreted a million plus one ways doesnt mean she has the wrong mentality. She probably needs more information about the project. If anything she was just being a girl and being diabetically sweet... I've seen female candidates interview like this before.  :P
I dont seem to mind, but obviously some ppl out there dislike sugar... who knows.

However I could say there are better things to say during an interview. You'd be surprised with the things ppl say nowadays to try and get jobs.

Anyway, all debate aside. I'm glad ppl are interested and please keep posting ur thoughts and questions. contact me if wish.

Since I'm always wrong. I'll try to get more info as it becomes available.  :)

[ph1shf00d]

Pyron, I'm not going to through and reply to your argument bit by bit.

I will answer that last question, though. 

I'm "whiteknighting" her just because I'm against your overall attitude over this.  You said it yourself- attitude greatly reflects how a person's going to do a job or how they're going to approach the problem.  In that case, it seems like your attitude reflects how much you hate the idea of a Maid Cafe in Fanime, because honestly, all you've been doing is criticizing (which isn't that bad- people learn from criticism)  and, more importantly, discouraging potential volunteers.  I'm not talking about revealing what being a maid really entails, but with your mentality that these people are going to do a shitty job with this event.

Just because the Maid Cafe had a disorganized and inaccurate run last year, doesn't mean that every volunteer this year is going to be a bitchy, whiny, lazy, and sloppy maid like they presumably were last year.  It's uncalled for to criticize interested people for simply showing interest, no matter where those interests may lie.  And I still think you're looking too far into what some of the people say on these forums.  It seriously sounds like you're totally sure that someone is a lazy and unfocused coquette who couldn't do a good job at working hard just because they say they like dresses. 

If you don't want a Maid Cafe at Fanime, just say so.  Create another thread about how you think the maid cafe is a bad idea and how resources from that possible event could go to another one instead of creating a failure like the one last year.  Maybe if you're nice about it, people will agree with you.  And hey, you might get enough support to get rid of this event and you'd be achieving your goal. If that isn't your mentality on this event, well, hell, how was I supposed to know?  Shutting down potential volunteers and bitching about how shitty the staff was last year certainly paints the image that you hate the idea of another maid cafe at Fanime.

It's unlikely that you'll ever end your ceaseless bitching of the planning of this event, so it'd be futile for me to try to suggest that you stop your involvement with it.  I will ask that you stop being so hostile to some of the people who are simply EXPRESSING AN INTEREST in this event.   Castigating them simply because their interest in working at a maid cafe is different from yours is just narrow minded and unproductive, and we could probably do without any of that.

[PyronIkari]

Le sigh... another repeat pointless and baseless attack -_-.

If I wanted the Maid Cafe removed, I wouldn't be posting about it on the forums, and would have taken it straight to staff with a million and one reasons as to why it shouldn't happen. Instead, I wouldn't be talking about how people are doing it wrong, and pointed out what they should be focusing on, ways to make it better, and the important factors of a maid cafe. I wouldn't have sent staff e-mails about the major points of focus and issues to address.

I'm curious as to, what my attitude on this is? You seem to think you know more about my attitude more than I do. If someone is discouraged at saying "If you're just looking to wear a dress then don't bother coming... because there's a lot of hard work, and a lot of commitment into this." then they SHOULDN'T BE THERE.

And it's bull, you're being an internet white knight, because you saw me "attacking a girl". You didn't say crap prior to that. You didn't even bother to let her reply herself before you jumped in either, like she NEEDED YOU to protect her from the evil me.

[Tony]

 ::)

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SNR is getting too low here. Locked!
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