What's Banned at FanimeCon and what's not banned...

[taitai]

The ACML agrees with me

The ACML is not a monolithic organization.  Please do not speak for all of us. 

Yes, glomping, signs, etc are problems at many, maybe most, cons.  However, that's really an issue that a particular con's special operations/operations/security or whatever fun euphemism that con comes up with for people who keep the peace to decide.  I can't take a decision one way or another since that's really a con specific problem.  However, unless you are staff for a con, please do not speak for other staffers, or the larger community of said staffers.

Also, a general line of advice if you want to have a real positive effect on con policy, one way IS to join staff at many cons.  Yes, there are cases where the head of a particular department might be stubborn and/or have other things going on, but only way to make sure something gets done is to DO it and that might involve some hard work on your part.  But hard work builds character, when I was your age... 

(seeing the post on the ACML made me miss fanime enough to poke around the forums.  If it wasn't for ACen...)

[PyronIkari]

Ah... Taiki. Irony much. Anyways, had you even read the thread you'd see my stance on staffing, and it's even funnier seeing that it's the general basis of FUKU... which is something you're part of isn't it? Or did they finally get fed up with you and ban you as well?

[taitai]

Ah... Taiki. Irony much. Anyways, had you even read the thread you'd see my stance on staffing, and it's even funnier seeing that it's the general basis of FUKU... which is something you're part of isn't it? Or did they finally get fed up with you and ban you as well?

I'm speaking in a general sense and that the way to solve problems isn't to go on to some webboard and act like a complete flaming jackass and start fights with the con staff.

What IS actually ironic is that you're actually displaying many key characteristics of being an F'ing Otaku.  Being beligerant, pseudo intellectual, stubborn, etc.  Really, the sign problem is the CON'S PROBLEM TO SOLVE.  It's really a problem for the security dept to figure out.  I'm not saying people shouldn't be saying anything negative about it, or that it's NOT a problem, I'm just saying that you should choose your fights far more wisely than this.

[PyronIkari]

I'm speaking in a general sense and that the way to solve problems isn't to go on to some webboard and act like a complete flaming jackass and start fights with the con staff.

What IS actually ironic is that you're actually displaying many key characteristics of being an F'ing Otaku.  Being beligerant, pseudo intellectual, stubborn, etc.  Really, the sign problem is the CON'S PROBLEM TO SOLVE.  It's really a problem for the security dept to figure out.  I'm not saying people shouldn't be saying anything negative about it, or that it's NOT a problem, I'm just saying that you should choose your fights far more wisely than this.

Hey Taiki... that's why I go to the Fanime meetings, bring it up, talk to staff members, and bring it up on the forum. Again, you didn't read this thread, or the other threads have you? And... pseudo? Tell me where i'm being "pseudo" in any of this, and state where what I say isn't based on actuallity. It's the security dept to decide what to do... which they did, but a lot of it has to do with people bringing it up, and making it an issue first to let them know that people are concerned, which is what I did.

And when I take advice from you about "choosing your fights more wisely" or... listening to any of your advice for that matter, is the day I admit defeat to the world and kill myself.

[Jun-Watarase]

Ah... Taiki. Irony much. Anyways, had you even read the thread you'd see my stance on staffing, and it's even funnier seeing that it's the general basis of FUKU... which is something you're part of isn't it? Or did they finally get fed up with you and ban you as well?

I'm speaking in a general sense and that the way to solve problems isn't to go on to some webboard and act like a complete flaming jackass and start fights with the con staff.

What IS actually ironic is that you're actually displaying many key characteristics of being an F'ing Otaku.  Being beligerant, pseudo intellectual, stubborn, etc.  Really, the sign problem is the CON'S PROBLEM TO SOLVE.  It's really a problem for the security dept to figure out.  I'm not saying people shouldn't be saying anything negative about it, or that it's NOT a problem, I'm just saying that you should choose your fights far more wisely than this.

Take your personal issue against Mikey elsewhere. Doesn't belong here.

[taitai]

Hey Taiki... that's why I go to the Fanime meetings, bring it up, talk to staff members, and bring it up on the forum. Again, you didn't read this thread, or the other threads have you? And... pseudo? Tell me where i'm being "pseudo" in any of this, and state where what I say isn't based on actuallity. It's the security dept to decide what to do... which they did, but a lot of it has to do with people bringing it up, and making it an issue first to let them know that people are concerned, which is what I did.

And when I take advice from you about "choosing your fights more wisely" or... listening to any of your advice for that matter, is the day I admit defeat to the world and kill myself.

Because stating "The ACML agrees with me" is such a horribly logically contructed statement that it almost made me fall over onto my fat ass.  It's really an appeal to a higher power which doesn't make your statement true at all.  Now, there's reasons why what your'e saying IS true, BUT you're using the way wrong line of reasoning.  That's pseudo intellectual.  Not to mention dragging the ACML into the discussion. 

Saying you've seen it, and others have, doesn't really address the problem from any point to make a decision on.  Enforcing those rules does take quite a bit of man power.  Especially if you've got a real problem.  It pulls security from their posts and reporting back to sec ops/con ops/wherever they go to report repeat offenders, it makes one more thing that door watching volunteers have to look for and unless it's *really* bad, like AKon 04 or Otakon 04/05 bad, it's generally not worth it to enforce with an iron fist.  Is it worth it to ahve it on the books in case something happens?  No doubt, but to enforce actively?  Possibly not.  This is why some cons just don't have sign/glomp policies.  I can't imagine cons like Anime LA, Anime Vegas, or Ani-Magic trying to enforce that kind of rule.  I know Anime Vegas has a policy on this because I helped out with it.  But is it heavily enforced?  No.  There's simply not enough man power to do it for the reward.

Now as to picking your fights wisely, yes, I'm aware you've got friends in high places within Fanime's organization, but I thought it was generally common fucking sense to not pick fights with Board members on their own forums, no matter who your friends are. 

Take your personal issue against Mikey elsewhere. Doesn't belong here.

The only problem I have is with the idea that someone can join the ACML and run around and act like it's THE final word on anything(or even that there's a hive mind like consensus on many issues when, there really isn't any), when it's not.  Being a member of said ML, I really did feel the need to speak up about speaking for us all.  It wasn't until Mikey brought up Fuku did I really even bother to think about taking it personally since, well, he brought it up.

Edit: yes, I have said in the past, "Join the ACML, you'll get some idea of how to run a con" which is true, because there are so many basic, ground level things that there is a consensus on, but when it gets into issues that are incredibly specific for a single con, then no, there's no absolute consensus.  Making sure everyone has badges and properly doing head counting?  Yeah, easily there's an established consensus there.  How to handle crowds?  Not so much.

[PyronIkari]

Because stating "The ACML agrees with me" is such a horribly logically contructed statement that it almost made me fall over onto my fat ass.  It's really an appeal to a higher power which doesn't make your statement true at all.  Now, there's reasons why what your'e saying IS true, BUT you're using the way wrong line of reasoning.  That's pseudo intellectual.  Not to mention dragging the ACML into the discussion. 

Saying you've seen it, and others have, doesn't really address the problem from any point to make a decision on.  Enforcing those rules does take quite a bit of man power.  Especially if you've got a real problem.  It pulls security from their posts and reporting back to sec ops/con ops/wherever they go to report repeat offenders, it makes one more thing that door watching volunteers have to look for and unless it's *really* bad, like AKon 04 or Otakon 04/05 bad, it's generally not worth it to enforce with an iron fist.  Is it worth it to ahve it on the books in case something happens?  No doubt, but to enforce actively?  Possibly not.  This is why some cons just don't have sign/glomp policies.  I can't imagine cons like Anime LA, Anime Vegas, or Ani-Magic trying to enforce that kind of rule.  I know Anime Vegas has a policy on this because I helped out with it.  But is it heavily enforced?  No.  There's simply not enough man power to do it for the reward.

Now as to picking your fights wisely, yes, I'm aware you've got friends in high places within Fanime's organization, but I thought it was generally common fucking sense to not pick fights with Board members on their own forums, no matter who your friends are. 

The only problem I have is with the idea that someone can join the ACML and run around and act like it's THE final word on anything(or even that there's a hive mind like consensus on many issues when, there really isn't any), when it's not.  Being a member of said ML, I really did feel the need to speak up about speaking for us all.  It wasn't until Mikey brought up Fuku did I really even bother to think about taking it personally since, well, he brought it up.

I merely stated that the majority of the ACML agrees that it is a problem, and they agree that the issue should be handled in that certain way.

Which... is true. You don't know what goes on at fanime, as you don't attend fanime, so who are you to say that the statement isn't applicable in said situations. I will argue with higher ups, or the chair, regardless of who my friends are if I see something as a problem, that should be addressed and they are refusing to acknowledge it, or I disagree with their views. THEY ARE FREE TO DISREGARD WHAT I SAY AND HANDLE THINGS HOWEVER THEY WANT, and I am fully aware of that. So again, what's your point? I attend fanime meetings, I observe what happens at fanime, and I make my judgments. All you are doing is arguing with me, based on one reference I used. Who said it was the final word or what not? I am arguing for the sake of the convention that I attend, and hope that it will make it a better place to attend. I show my support by running panels, helping with odd jobs and errands when people need me to, and by contributing as a member. I attend meeting, and give my opinion, raise up my thoughts and concerns, and allow them to decide whatever they wish to decide.

I am not telling people to boycott Fanime if they don't ban signs, and I'm neither forcing them, nor commanding them to do anything, I'm merely arguing a point.

So once more... where am I being a pseudo intellectual?

I brought up the ACML as a point of reference, and also explained the reasoning behind it, I didn't just state" THE ACML SAYS IT, SO IT IS TRUE!"

[PassingTheBuck]

Take your personal issue against Mikey elsewhere. Doesn't belong here.

Mikey?!?   ;D

[Jun-Watarase]

Take your personal issue against Mikey elsewhere. Doesn't belong here.

Mikey?!?   ;D

Nice to know that staff represents themselves on the forums so maturely. =/

[M]

OK, stop replying to this post if you have nothing to add regarding the subject. Side conversations should be taken to Private Messages.

This goes for everyone.

[dibbly]

i was wondering, is there any way to get official information from the higher ups or would one have to go to the meetings?

[Steve.Young]

Walking around the con patrolling last year, several attendees did walk up to me and tell me of overaggressive and unwanted glomping. Those people were warned it is considered harassment and they seemed to acknowledge it (But I'm sure they just ran off, waited a little bit, and did it again). However, I know Rovers/SOS is pretty stretched cause we have maybe 10 staff per shift working the entire con at any one time with a couple support at base. We have 4-5 shifts and a whole bunch of events (Music Fest, Hentai nights, etc.), which leaves us pretty stretched for people. I worked almost the entire con straight last year just cause we really needed people out and about. If you want to help stem the problem a little bit, educating the attendees to report the badge numbers of the unwanted glompers go a long way. Cause that can get sent to those working the concourse from base and they can be on the lookout, and if they are caught doing it again, then more than likely can be removed since he/she is a repeat offender. Also, if you go to con-ops to file a report, it'd help too. I think a couple people were removed last year for sexual harassment after it was reported to con-ops and the guys were found.

[Mister_E]

But was SHE caught! The person who almost single handly started this whole Ban Glomp thing

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8RxL8DLsEuc

[FanFicGuru]

But was SHE caught! The person who almost single handly started this whole Ban Glomp thing

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8RxL8DLsEuc

What's funny is that she probably has no idea about all the madness that has ensued behind the scenes and will no doubt return this year thinking that everything is fine.

Maybe Fanime staff should make it a point to let fans know that if they want to keep up with policies and the operation of the con all year round they should really visit the boards. I mean, it's probably been said before but most people probably dismiss it. As the rest of us have seen, however, the boards are pretty important in the structure and execution of the convention as far as fan-created elements go.

[Nyxyin]

is there any way to get official information from the higher ups or would one have to go to the meetings?

Apparently, the official information will eventually be placed in the official section of the web site when it's ready.  Until that gets written up and posted, it's all hearsay, rumors, and ideas being tossed around.  As has been demonstrated earlier, even going to meetings does not get you the final official information.

[M]

As has been demonstrated earlier, even going to meetings does not get you the final official information.

Official information will be posted by certain staff members. What was demonstrated earlier was unconfirmed rumors being passed off as facts and even then, it was corrected very quickly.

The proper staff members are gathering the rules and whatnot and it will be posted on the forums, website, and will be inside of the program guide.

If you can, it always helps to get the badge number. :)

[Nyxyin]

Official information will be posted by certain staff members.

Is there a list of the Official Authoritative People on the forums and what they're authoritative about?  Obviously, the stars and "Moderator" status means people are authoritative, but PassingTheBuck must be pretty important too (or so I gather from his posts about hotel numbers), but he only has two stars and a status of "Inu-Posta".

[PassingTheBuck]

Is there a list of the Official Authoritative People on the forums and what they're authoritative about?  Obviously, the stars and "Moderator" status means people are authoritative, but PassingTheBuck must be pretty important too (or so I gather from his posts about hotel numbers), but he only has two stars and a status of "Inu-Posta".

That's a loaded question, how important am I?   :P  One's ego could get inflated by ones attempting to describe how important they are to cause one not to be able to use a doorway, because one's head is over inflated.   ::)

As the SIG states, I'm the Treasury of FanimeCon as well as the Comptroller (and the Chief Finacial Officer) for ARG, the parent company that owns FanimeCon.  I am also part of the executive staff for FanimeCon for the past five years.  You might say I have some knowledge of how Fanime works and do speak with a certain amount of authority when it comes to specific subject matters, such as Finance and Hotels, while I also have a passing knowledge of Facilities, Rovers/Safety/Security, ConOps, Tech, Publications, Programming and maybe one or two other subjects.

If I comment on something it's from almost 45 years of experiences in Science Ficition, Horror, Fantasy and Anime conventions and not from one or two local events, but literally hundreds of events that I've either attended or have works as a staffer.  While I do speak for FanimeCon, I try to announce when it's my opinion and when it's coming out of my mouth as Staff.  However, I don't often comment on a vareity of subjects, just because there are literally dozens of other people who have the knowledge and the authority to comment on it.  Therefore I don't have a lot of posts and in fact last year I was a moderator and just didn't have the time nor the talent to properly devote to it and I was reduced in rank this year.  MILTON - Did you have something to do with that?!?

Does that answer your question without it making me sounds like a doofus or an self absorbed a**hole?  No one else can answer that question for her, especially you LadyKaren...

C.

[Nyxyin]

Does that answer your question

Thanks for explaining your background.  45 years of convention experience is most impressive.
(Especially considering that the person who started the "How old is too old?" thread was worried about being "too old" at 24 years of age....) ;)

That answers part of my question, but I was also trying to ask more generally for a list of authoritative people on the forums.  I think it might help people judge the level of authority of various posters if there could be a sticky thread in which the official staff people could write similar introductions indicating what they do, how high up the chain they are (since those lower down on the chain have more people who can change the policies from under them, making what they say no longer true), and how much experience they have (which I tend to use as an indication of how likely it is that they'll run into unforeseen circumstances that force them to recant what they've said).  It might clear up the confusion of who can say what.

It bothers me that people can randomly say that there's a ban on "all signs" or "anything that is a proposition" and have people believe them.  Obviously, FanimeCon itself has to put up signs to point people in the right direction, and the dealers and art booths should be able to have signs advertising their products.  At a minimum, there should be a clause allowing Fanime's own signs.  And, just because banning signs might be in vogue with other anime conventions doesn't mean that the policy is a good idea, that it actually works, or that it will stand up to legal scrutiny if necessary.  "Propositions" do not have solid enough legal definitions that anybody can ban "anything" that is one of them (and I believe that our country is still "dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal").  People can ban "prostitution", "sexual harassment", "advertising without a valid and verified California sales permit", "physical assault", "panhandling", "solicitation", etc., but a "proposition" would need to be more specifically defined, and proper policies should probably avoid using that particular word completely.

[PassingTheBuck]

Does that answer your question

Thanks for explaining your background.  45 years of convention experience is most impressive.
(Especially considering that the person who started the "How old is too old?" thread was worried about being "too old" at 24 years of age....) ;)

That answers part of my question, but I was also trying to ask more generally for a list of authoritative people on the forums.  I think it might help people judge the level of authority of various posters if there could be a sticky thread in which the official staff people could write similar introductions indicating what they do, how high up the chain they are (since those lower down on the chain have more people who can change the policies from under them, making what they say no longer true), and how much experience they have (which I tend to use as an indication of how likely it is that they'll run into unforeseen circumstances that force them to recant what they've said).  It might clear up the confusion of who can say what.

It bothers me that people can randomly say that there's a ban on "all signs" or "anything that is a proposition" and have people believe them.  Obviously, FanimeCon itself has to put up signs to point people in the right direction, and the dealers and art booths should be able to have signs advertising their products.  At a minimum, there should be a clause allowing Fanime's own signs.  And, just because banning signs might be in vogue with other anime conventions doesn't mean that the policy is a good idea, that it actually works, or that it will stand up to legal scrutiny if necessary.  "Propositions" do not have solid enough legal definitions that anybody can ban "anything" that is one of them (and I believe that our country is still "dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal").  People can ban "prostitution", "sexual harassment", "advertising without a valid and verified California sales permit", "physical assault", "panhandling", "solicitation", etc., but a "proposition" would need to be more specifically defined, and proper policies should probably avoid using that particular word completely.

WOW, that's a lot to think about, but to be honest, if the SIG has Chairman, Vice-Chair, Division or Head, they have the Authority to comment on the their field of specific knowledge or cross knowledge.  That's about the best, for the time being, that we could offer to you.  If the SIG is something other than one of those titles, you would have to use your judgement.