What's Banned at FanimeCon and what's not banned...

[PassingTheBuck]

Now that I have your attention, let's get a few ground rules clear...

I'm speaking for myself on this thread and not for ARG or FanimeCon.

What I'm saying should make it clear for everyone who is in either camp about what should be done with banning of Glomping or using signage.

There are legal laws covers certain aspects of Glomping, especially if the person getting Glomped doesn't want it.  If you don't like physical contact, that is unwarranted, than you need to express yourself to the offending party, expecting everyone else to know what you like or don't like without verbal communications is just dumb.

Right about now, I can hear those voices on the forum who are offended saying "WTF!" 

As for the Glomper, there are common society practices and rules that need to be observed and the failure to obtain verbal acceptance before Glomping the Glompee is disrespectful, rude and should be discouraged.  In the simplest of term, you don't have the 'right' to make physical contact with someone else without their permission and that is the law.

If you think that physically attacking the Glomper back in the answer, that's going over the line and Glompee, not the Glomper is likely to end up in jail.  Yes, if I Glomp the Glompee without any leaving any physical marks on the Glompee and the Glompee physically bruises the Glomper (round house kick to the face); you just might end up in jail.  That's the law too.

Therefore if the Glompee and the Glomper agree, either through non-verbal or verbal communications that they wish to Glomp each other, than please proceed and enjoy the act of physical contact of each other.

Otherwise, don't do it...  It's that simple.

As for signage...

Fanime Safety and ConOps are not the social conscious police for the convention nor for Glompee that is attacked by the Glomper.  Neither should they should they be running around interfering with the attendees telling everyone that they are not allow to make physical contact with anyone else or they will be removed from the convention.  They have better 'things' they need to be doing for the convention..

As for signage, it's quite clear (legally) what is to be allowed and not allowed without ARG or FanimeCon having to reinvent the wheel all over again.  If you are in doubt, don't do it, if you offended, get over it, because again, FanimeCon Safety and ConOps have higher priorities than to be running around censoring or deciding what should be there and what shouldn't be there.  If you have doubts, check with the San Jose Police Department.

Craige...

***Speaking as an attendee, not a member of the board or the convention.***

[PyronIkari]

If you think that physically attacking the Glomper back in the answer, that's going over the line and Glompee, not the Glomper is likely to end up in jail.  Yes, if I Glomp the Glompee without any leaving any physical marks on the Glompee and the Glompee physically bruises the Glomper (round house kick to the face); you just might end up in jail.  That's the law too.

NOT TRUE AT ALL. It's based on the reactionary action. If someone runs and tackles you and your reaction is to turn and punch them in the face, then that is straight self-defense based on the reaction of getting attacked/touched unwantedly. There isn't a single judge who would see it any other way. However, if you get tackled you stop and look at the person and go "WHY DID YOU DO THAT" then punch the guy, then that is assault and it is illegal, because it is no longer self-defense, as the action has ended.

HOWEVER, if they glomp you, and they keep hugging you, and they WILL NOT LET GO even if you say to, and you punch them to get them off of you, that is not illegal.

As for signage, it's quite clear (legally) what is to be allowed and not allowed without ARG or FanimeCon having to reinvent the wheel all over again.  If you are in doubt, don't do it, if you offended, get over it, because again, FanimeCon Safety and ConOps have higher priorities than to be running around censoring or deciding what should be there and what shouldn't be there.  If you have doubts, check with the San Jose Police Department.

Craige...

***Speaking as an attendee, not a member of the board or the convention.***

And I said this before. You act like they have to actively walk around, reminding people, and calling it out. Roavers go around constantly just keeping an eye out for issues. They aren't going around REMNIDING PEOPLE WHAT AND WHAT NOT TO DO. Their jobs would be no different, it would just be that, they'd be looking for one more issue.

It's obviously an issue, and a lot of people don't like them. It causes a lot of problems, including fire hazards(seeing that even a staff member that had a Glomp me sign blocked a door way for like 10 minutes because a group of people decided to do so and no one could get pass them, and he wasn't doing his job checking for badges during this).

But hey... that isn't worth it.

[dibbly]

lock? anywhere? please....

[OniCourseMusha]

I'll take the word of this.
And please lock before there anymore debates.

[Jun-Watarase]

I'll take the word of this.
And please lock before there anymore debates.

I know you might have a personal dislike for discussions, but... that's pretty retarded, if you ask me. Nothing really gets solved by ignoring a problem, but I'm not going to tell you how to live your life. Some things are meant to be discussed, and forums are to share information and discuss issues, especially ones relative to the organization the forum represents. Anyways, it's a real issue, and there's nothing wrong in pointing out a flaw in an announcement that the con-goers are supposed to assume is true. I've already contributed my opinion on the issue, so I won't get into it here, but I don't think that discussion on it warrants a lock on the thread.

... -_-; Eh, whatever.

[OniCourseMusha]

I'll take the word of this.
And please lock before there anymore debates.

I know you might have a personal dislike for discussions, but... that's pretty retarded, if you ask me. Nothing really gets solved by ignoring a problem, but I'm not going to tell you how to live your life. Some things are meant to be discussed, and forums are to share information and discuss issues, especially ones relative to the organization the forum represents. Anyways, it's a real issue, and there's nothing wrong in pointing out a flaw in an announcement that the con-goers are supposed to assume is true. I've already contributed my opinion on the issue, so I won't get into it here, but I don't think that discussion on it warrants a lock on the thread.

... -_-; Eh, whatever.

You don't have to point that much thank you very much by the fact that I am retarded.

[Jun-Watarase]

I'll take the word of this.
And please lock before there anymore debates.

I know you might have a personal dislike for discussions, but... that's pretty retarded, if you ask me. Nothing really gets solved by ignoring a problem, but I'm not going to tell you how to live your life. Some things are meant to be discussed, and forums are to share information and discuss issues, especially ones relative to the organization the forum represents. Anyways, it's a real issue, and there's nothing wrong in pointing out a flaw in an announcement that the con-goers are supposed to assume is true. I've already contributed my opinion on the issue, so I won't get into it here, but I don't think that discussion on it warrants a lock on the thread.

... -_-; Eh, whatever.

You don't have to point that much thank you very much by the fact that I am retarded.

Wha? I didn't say YOU were retarded. I just find avoiding discussion because you don't approve of it sort of ridiculous. If you interpret statements like these the way you do, then I do understand why you dislike them.

But it is an issue and a problem con-goers frequently encounter, and it should be discussed and addressed, rather than avoided because people disapprove of discussion. I agree that the direction the "debates" lead to are silly and redundant, since it's pretty much the same statements by both sides repeating over... and over... and over, but I hope for progress in the future. If FanimeCon can't take care of it, then it's the responsibility by the people who attend to regulate their own actions. Those people post on these forums, thus, I think if a discussion of some sort takes place, it shouldn't be locked.

I understand that it scares away some of the new forum members, and that it'd frustrate those moderating the forum by the constant tension and people's feelings getting hurt by some of the remarks made on people's posts, but it doesn't mean that discussion should stop because of this. Those who get upset from it have the choice not to read and participate.

[OniCourseMusha]

I'm gonna leave this issue to the con not us.  As long as me and my buddies can use the glomp/sign responsibly that will be fun.  Why did I waste on posting my thought on that other thread.  Heh I guess I'm just bored after all.  My statement can sometimes be retarded to people anyways.

[Mister_E]

I'm gonna leave this issue to the con not us.  As long as me and my buddies can use the glomp/sign responsibly that will be fun.  Why did I waste on posting my thought on that other thread.  Heh I guess I'm just bored after all.  My statement can sometimes be retarded to people anyways.

Here here!

[PassingTheBuck]

***Let me start out by saying that everything I express here and now are my personal opinions and having nothing to do with FanimeCon or ARG.***

My point PyronIkari still stands.

OniCourseMusha and Jun-Watarase, healthly debate is what made this country, even the name calling and if you don't believe me, read what our founding Fathers thought of each other when they were servicing in the First Congress.  However, for the record, the Forum doesn't like it when you are disrespectful to the others on the forum (name calling, flaming, flame baiting, etc.), even when you disagree with them.

PyronIkari and I disagree all the time and neither of us have ever gotten into the gutter and started calling each other names.

PyronIkari, you've had bad experiences with Glompers and Signage-People.  I loved that part of being tackling by someone; it's so over the top, I'm sure that you have personally been tackled dozens of times to the ground by Glomper who have had you in choke holds until you've passed out.  It quite clear and evident by your posts that your dislike for these Glomper people is without recourse, the soon they disappear of the face of the Earth, the better.  I on the other hand have had nothing but good experiences with them.

You want them removed or banned from Fanime by any means just as long as it gets done.

That's not going to happen without your help.

You cited an obscure incident with the Signage-People that I will be checking with the Head of ConOps about tomorrow.  It did happen at FanimeCon, right? 

More to the point you want Rovers and/or Safety to do the job of controlling or ejecting them from Fanime and that's just not going to happen without your help.  If you have such a deep desire to have these people removed than you need to step up and do your part and stop complaining about it.  Join the Rovers or Safety teams and go after them.  Make a difference, no more complaining, whining about how bad Glompers and Signage-People are, stop citing issues that you are having with them, because you know as well as I do that no-one is going to do the job right, you need to do it personally.

You've stated openly that 'alot of people don't like them', than you shouldn't have a problem coming to a Fanime staff meeting, presenting your case to the Chair of the convention, citing your facts about how 'bad' these people are, getting his permission to form a group of devoted followers, personally training them on what they can legally do, additionally take your followers through FanimeCon Rover and/or Safety training classes and than actually working the convention instead of just attending it and getting this Glompers and Signage-People issue under control.  Might I suggest a T-Shirt that ensures that everyone knows you and your followers are around, seriously, I would look toward a neutral Earth color, like brown, don't laugh, I'm serious, and it probably is not being used by either Rovers or Safety this year.  You would stand out in a crowd, you would easily be identifiable to attendees and hell, I would even be willing to help make a donation to start the Brown Shirt Fund.     

Remember either you are a solution to the problem or you are the problem.

Craige...  ***These are my opinion and have nothing to do with ARG or Fanime***

[Xeluu]

I've stated this before, and I'll state it again.

I think it's pointless to argue back and forth, as so many people are doing right now. Why? Because in all likelihood you WON'T be changing the other person's opinion.

What I'd really like to see at this point is people proposing ideas to fix the issues which keep being brought up. Unwanted/unasked for glomping, and signs.

I, personally, don't have an issue with the sign bearers. I just ignore them, or snicker to myself about what the sign has said. I DO, however, stand for which signs Fanime has banned (Will Yaoi for Pocky, or similar) since they can get in big trouble for it. *shrug* That's my take, I don't care to argue it. If people don't like signs, what can we suggest to get rid of some of them?

For unwanted and unasked for glomping I see a more serious issue. I can't agree with the outright banning of glomps, since I'd be willing to be that for every unwanted glomp there are at least five more asked for glomps. (Note, I'm pulling those numbers out of thin air. That's just my guess.) What I'd like to see, is a code of conduct placed on the TV screens, and potentially in the little bag of handouts when you register or pick up your badge. I'm sure other people have even better ideas than I do, and I DO hate for Fanime to potentially have to pay for all that extra paper, hence why I suggested the TV screens.

NOTE: I will not be responding to Flamers, I've made my points on the argument, I'm sure many of them are not correct, but you won't be swaying me. Let's stop arguing and start DOING something about the problems.

[dibbly]

(steps out of debate, sits in lawn chair, busts out the bon-bons, and enjoys)
{im out of this now, dramas bad for the soul}
Good Luck, both sides=)

[PyronIkari]

PyronIkari, you've had bad experiences with Glompers and Signage-People.  I loved that part of being tackling by someone; it's so over the top, I'm sure that you have personally been tackled dozens of times to the ground by Glomper who have had you in choke holds until you've passed out.  It quite clear and evident by your posts that your dislike for these Glomper people is without recourse, the soon they disappear of the face of the Earth, the better.  I on the other hand have had nothing but good experiences with them.

Frankly, it's based on the person. I've never said glomping should be banned, however people should have basic understandings of personal space and what not to do so. I don't care if people do it, it's when people do it unwantedly and unrespectfully. If a friend of mine does it, one that knows me and I know respects me to do it in an appropriate way, then that's fine. If a complete stranger does it to me when I'm not paying attention and talking to a friend of mine, that's a totally different story. Some people have very limited issues with personal space, and they don't care if completely strangers grope them... the majority are not the same. You think I'm wrong in stating that people should follow basic social rules?

As for signs, the issues is more about the results and mentallity behind them. People do that, to gain attention, and get things to happen in which they cannot obtain through realistic social ways. But that's personal choice. However, when issues like them gathering people in hall ways, when people are rolling around like idiots or chasing after each other and screaming and crawling on the floor... When people think it's okay to harass random passer byers with "DO YOU WANT POCKY, HERE TAKE MY POCKY, YOU HAVE TO TAKE MY POCKY!" or the reverse "GIVE ME POCKY, I WANT POCKY!!!!!!!" then there's a problem. When doors are being blocked, or people are falling over onto me then that's no longer just them having fun.

You want them removed or banned from Fanime by any means just as long as it gets done.

Nope, I want people to just be semi-realistic and have basic social skills.

You cited an obscure incident with the Signage-People that I will be checking with the Head of ConOps about tomorrow.  It did happen at FanimeCon, right? 

Obscure? I guess you don't get out much at cons with all the staff work you're doing, because it's hardly "obscure" to have things like this happen.

rest of what PassingTheBuck says

Oh, but here's the issue with that. Instead of me trying to do things at a convention, I should spend my time telling people to have common sense? I'm *NOT* trying to make things better? There's more ways to make things "better" than physically enforcing it. I mean, isn't that the point of me posting and discussing it on these forums? I did bring it up at the meeting, just not during the main meeting. I brought it up with multiple staff members, and talked about reasons and what not.

The general concensus is that "Yeah, it is a problem, but there's very little that can be done". Which I agree with. It's hard to enforce something like that. The basic way would be to ban people carrying signs. But this is dependant on common sense. What about idiots that don't have this common sense(as was displayed in other threads with stupid questions). Then there's those that don't follow/read/listen to rules. It'd be quite a lot of work to enforce rules the con has written(or atleast this is what you are saying here).

So how am I trying to improve things? By making it known. By sharing my opinions with the general public, and hoping that by doing so they will share it with people they know. I can't change the entire convention, and prevent everyone from glomping random strangers, but I can get a handful of people to listen, and they might get others to do so.

My threads about glomping and discussion about it, GOT it brought up, and many of the people on this forum did listen. And they will think about it, and many will let their friends know about it(as many have said that they did and will).

I'm doing my part. What are you doing?

[Joecool1]

Butt hurt isn't he?

[OniCourseMusha]

Butt hurt isn't he?

The hell?

On topic: I'm gonna come up some unique signs now (no hug me or glomp me signs) and get them approved.

[G.I.R]

(steps out of debate, sits in lawn chair, busts out the bon-bons, and enjoys)
{im out of this now, dramas bad for the soul}
Good Luck, both sides=)

-Pulls up a lawn chair and joins the viewing-

"Ah-yup!  Best free entertainment around I tell you what."  :D

[PassingTheBuck]

I'm doing my part. What are you doing?

Getting involved with the conference while you are still standing at the side lines shouting at the parade as it goes by you.

You want everyone else to hear you, hence the reason you bring up the topic on the forum, however this is a limited platform for exchanging your opinion with others.  You did state that you wanted 'these people' to become more semi-realistic and have basic social skills, than step up and do something about it.  Offer to Programming that you will host a panel on it.  Offer to work for Security/Rovers.  Offer to work a web page on Glomping and Signage guidelines.  Offer to ConOps that would do a training session on-the-floor for everyone at the event.  You want to change this people, than you need to do it, but continually posting threads about your dislike and hatred of their activities isn't going far enough, because it's still happening.

Stop whining about it on this very limited forum and get out into the event itself and have a wider impact on this very important issue for you.

Oh yeah, nice side shot about me not getting out while at the con, that was actually funny.  I'm sure ConOps found it funny too, but you wouldn't understand our inside joke on that one either.

Craige...

[OniCourseMusha]

(steps out of debate, sits in lawn chair, busts out the bon-bons, and enjoys)
{im out of this now, dramas bad for the soul}
Good Luck, both sides=)

-Pulls up a lawn chair and joins the viewing-

"Ah-yup!  Best free entertainment around I tell you what."  :D

-steps out of the debate.
"I'm done!  Can I join ya?  I got beer!"

[Mister_E]

(steps out of debate, sits in lawn chair, busts out the bon-bons, and enjoys)
{im out of this now, dramas bad for the soul}
Good Luck, both sides=)

-Pulls up a lawn chair and joins the viewing-

"Ah-yup!  Best free entertainment around I tell you what."  :D

-steps out of the debate.
"I'm done!  Can I join ya?  I got beer!"

Pfft who needs beer when you got some Captain

[M]

OK, so this topic is supposed to filled with serious conversation. Don't post in this topic unless you have something meaningful to say.