Corporate Panel: The BIG issue - Online anime and the death of the DVD buyer

[Zergling Rush]

Hi,
I think it would be terrific to combine the great strengths of our location (Silicon Valley) and anime and try to get some major anime distributors together to discuss the impact of the Internet on anime (fan subs, DVD sales drop, new online-only series).

As many of us know, the anime industry is in a major crisis. As I've been told personally by companies based both in the US and Japan, US DVD sales have "Flat-lined." It's a very real concern for the people who create the anime that you love whether or not they will have the money to keep the lights on. We've seen Geneon (a top 3 US distributor) close their US headquarters and all but cease US operations. You want great series, well, some of those are in real danger of never being produced if there isn't enough money to pay the talent.

I'm not suggesting a doom and gloom panel, rather a constructive way for business people involved in the licensing and distribution of anime to discuss the issue in an open forum where fans can ask questions (and, yes, tough questions) about what's happening and what the future may hold.

This is THE issue in anime in 2008. It would be a shame for San Jose (the heart of Silicon Valley) not to take a leadership position in getting people to the table for some panels related to the impact and future of online anime.

For those of you who haven't read the watershed editorial from ANN's founder, Justin Sevakis, I'd highly recommend it.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/editorial/2007-11-25

Some starter ideas (PLEEEASE ADD TO THIS :))
How have fan-subs affected anime sales in the US?
What are the major licensors l(Toei, ADV, TMS, Bandia, Funimation, Viz, etc.) doing to offer anime online?
Anime life after the DVD. -- What does that look like?

Let's think big San Jose and make an impact on the industry. ;D

[clawmaster]

is it really in crises? sure in the U.S. many people do dl anime from japan to watch it since it is unlicensed but in japan is it the same here? what about all the merchendising from the company that tons of anime fans buy? and does anyone buy dvds in japan for anime?

[Zergling Rush]

Clawmaster,
Really good, intelligent questions. You make a great point about the difference between the Japanese market and the US market. The Japanese market is still doing OK, the Otaku market is strong and it is really the last bastion of profitability for the Japanese firms that produce the anime. Beneath the surface, however, there is tangible fear that what is happening in the U.S. and other regions (like Europe) may spread to Japan.

Crisis or not?
In the U.S. DVD sales are the largest revenue generator at present and they are sinking rapidly. When your primary source of revenue drops significantly, and there isn't another source to offset that loss, then yes, that's a major issue for a company's bottom line. Merchandising is another revenue stream, and though this may actually be growing, (and TV licensing royalties may be growing as well), from what I've heard, it doesn't come close to making up for DVD sales.

The question going forward is, how do anime companies adjust to the fall in US DVD sales? What role will the internet play -- will it be a place where anime companies can't generate revenue, or will it be the next big revenue stream?

To me, that's a very interesting topic. What do you think?

[kimono_hime]

I'd like to be able to even FIND certain films from Japan on DVD. I bought a DVD of Sakuran (film, not anime, but based on a manga series) off Amazon, but it looks like a bootleg, IMO. And the soundtrack? No way. The only way to get it is dl. I don't like that.

If the industry could get over the idea of disc formats and move on to legitimate digital downloads (like in iTunes?) sales might pick up. Or not. Maybe they do it already? I don't watch TV but do have full boxed sets of Ghost in the Shell, Noir and other series. Fansubs are fine in some cases, but I'd prefer to have a set with all the extras.

[heeroyuy135]

What about anime on Blu-Ray? There will be anime in High-Def, but it would be a great option to squeeze in a series within 2 or 3 disks with normal DVD quality.

[clawmaster]

I'd like to be able to even FIND certain films from Japan on DVD. I bought a DVD of Sakuran (film, not anime, but based on a manga series) off Amazon, but it looks like a bootleg, IMO. And the soundtrack? No way. The only way to get it is dl. I don't like that.

If the industry could get over the idea of disc formats and move on to legitimate digital downloads (like in iTunes?) sales might pick up. Or not. Maybe they do it already? I don't watch TV but do have full boxed sets of Ghost in the Shell, Noir and other series. Fansubs are fine in some cases, but I'd prefer to have a set with all the extras.

yea in this time and age it seems that along with music and movies it seems that online selling and swapping media online is the way to go. It seems that the new way to distrubute anime or any type of media now a days is to sell it online like on itunes or outlets. Places that hold anime dvds and box sets may still be up but like the music industry its suffering when it comes to online distrubition. For here in the U.S. yea i do belive we are going to see anime on itunes or Xbox live or Playstation online store but for japan i think it will take them longer to do what we are going to do.

[clawmaster]

What about anime on Blu-Ray? There will be anime in High-Def, but it would be a great option to squeeze in a series within 2 or 3 disks with normal DVD quality.

anime in HD? At this point it might as well be put on blue ray since HD dvds are going to be put down in favor of blue ray. tobisha, microsoft, and other companies have already dropped HD dvd support and are getting ready for blue ray. of course this wont replace computer DvD-RW or any format for to burn anything on. Blue ray will be able to hld sooo much room you could probably fit (just guessing) around 4 to 5 seasons of an anime or differnt anime seasons. problem is that blue ray discs are going to be expansive and if u are wondering how much a blue ray is right now its 400$ the same price for a ps3 which has blue ray in it already.

[Kava]

I know I personally tend to see Bootlegs as a larger problem than fansubs. If I watch an anime as a Fansub and I really like it, I'll probably go get the DVD when I can if it's available. Of the anime I have bought on DVD though, many times what I received didn't seem like a legit copy of the anime, but more like a bootleg someone threw together with half the subtitles missing.

Having come into anime fandom only in the last 6 years or so, I think there isn't enough emphasis for newer fans on how to tell if something is a bootleg or legitimate copy of something -before- they buy it. I don't want to spend $60 to buy a series after I've already spent $40 and what I got wasn't a legit copy, and it's only now that I'm so involved with an anime con that I'm learning some signs on how to tell the difference. My friends on Dealer staff give me pointers on what to look for.

Going back to the online theme though... I usually buy most of my anime DVD's online, because it's easier to find them there than to go hunt my local stores for what I want. So how can I, as a buyer, tell if something is officially liscenced or not before I buy it, when I'm going through online sources for my DVD's and I can't actually look at the packaging before I buy it? That's something I'd be interested in hearing about.

[kimono_hime]

Ditto what Kava just said (I didn't want to quote-and-paste the whole thing).

Some of the GITS fansubs I've seen were great, some were bad, but in the end we bought legit DVDs anyway (at Fry's, I think). As for finding them locally where I am? Um, there's one store in town that will order them for me, so that's something. Sometimes I just check them out at the library. We watched Last Exile that way, but someone had lost the 3rd disk and we ended up downloading it because we were told it was unavailable and the library couldn't reorder it.

[PyronIkari]

Not that I think a panel on this is a bad idea, but it's a very touchy subject with a lot of very delicate details. There was a thread about this earlier in the general section and a lot of people don't realize the things that take place in business and what is causing what. The person running the panel needs to be VERY VERY VERY VERY informed and the information has to be legit and correct, otherwise it could cause more harm than help in the end.

[Tony]

Not that I think a panel on this is a bad idea, but it's a very touchy subject with a lot of very delicate details. There was a thread about this earlier in the general section and a lot of people don't realize the things that take place in business and what is causing what. The person running the panel needs to be VERY VERY VERY VERY informed and the information has to be legit and correct, otherwise it could cause more harm than help in the end.

QFE

Also, it needs industry in on it - otherwise it's just mental masturbation. Which is fun, but kills kittens.

[clawmaster]

Not that I think a panel on this is a bad idea, but it's a very touchy subject with a lot of very delicate details. There was a thread about this earlier in the general section and a lot of people don't realize the things that take place in business and what is causing what. The person running the panel needs to be VERY VERY VERY VERY informed and the information has to be legit and correct, otherwise it could cause more harm than help in the end.

QFE

Also, it needs industry in on it - otherwise it's just mental masturbation. Which is fun, but kills kittens.

lol very well said.

[Zergling Rush]

The person running the panel needs to be VERY VERY VERY VERY informed and the information has to be legit and correct, otherwise it could cause more harm than help in the end.

Yes. Absolutely. The person running the panel will need to get the right people on the panel and get a moderator that can add insight and then let the experts show and tell. With the right panelists, a solid moderator and audience participation -- I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be a great panel.

Regarding a fan-sub forum, I'd like to take a stab at a list of the types of panelist that should attend:
*Distributors - like Viz (based in SF), Funimation, etc.
*fan sub networks - AnimeSuki, Subwire, Crunchyroll, (2/3 are local) etc.
*torrent clients - BitTorrent, Azureus (both local)
*well known fan-subbers? (perhaps ones that practice a tight ethical code)
*Notable industry journalists

A diverse panel would be nothing if not interesting -- and hopefully civil and professional. I also wouldn't want the panelists representing the industry to feel that it wasn't balanced -- the moderator would have to be extremely knowledgeable and professional.

[clawmaster]

The person running the panel needs to be VERY VERY VERY VERY informed and the information has to be legit and correct, otherwise it could cause more harm than help in the end.

Yes. Absolutely. The person running the panel will need to get the right people on the panel and get a moderator that can add insight and then let the experts show and tell. With the right panelists, a solid moderator and audience participation -- I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be a great panel.

Regarding a fan-sub forum, I'd like to take a stab at a list of the types of panelist that should attend:
*Distributors - like Viz (based in SF), Funimation, etc.
*fan sub networks - AnimeSuki, Subwire, Crunchyroll, (2/3 are local) etc.
*torrent clients - BitTorrent, Azureus (both local)
*well known fan-subbers? (perhaps ones that practice a tight ethical code)
*Notable industry journalists

A diverse panel would be nothing if not interesting -- and hopefully civil and professional. I also wouldn't want the panelists representing the industry to feel that it wasn't balanced -- the moderator would have to be extremely knowledgeable and professional.

if that happens that would be awsome. but with 2 months left to go u think it can be pulled off?

[cortana]

The person running the panel needs to be VERY VERY VERY VERY informed and the information has to be legit and correct, otherwise it could cause more harm than help in the end.

Yes. Absolutely. The person running the panel will need to get the right people on the panel and get a moderator that can add insight and then let the experts show and tell. With the right panelists, a solid moderator and audience participation -- I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be a great panel.

Regarding a fan-sub forum, I'd like to take a stab at a list of the types of panelist that should attend:
*Distributors - like Viz (based in SF), Funimation, etc.
*fan sub networks - AnimeSuki, Subwire, Crunchyroll, (2/3 are local) etc.
*torrent clients - BitTorrent, Azureus (both local)
*well known fan-subbers? (perhaps ones that practice a tight ethical code)
*Notable industry journalists

A diverse panel would be nothing if not interesting -- and hopefully civil and professional. I also wouldn't want the panelists representing the industry to feel that it wasn't balanced -- the moderator would have to be extremely knowledgeable and professional.

Why not invite some cops too, so you get everyone that should probably never meet each other in person. Maybe invite the president of ODEX, too!

[Cowpunk]

Having come into anime fandom only in the last 6 years or so, I think there isn't enough emphasis for newer fans on how to tell if something is a bootleg or legitimate copy of something -before- they buy it.

Check out:

http://www.digital.anime.org.uk/piratefaq.html


Also my "Reporting Pirated Anime and Asian Cinema" page:

http://www.koyagi.com/pirates.html

I'll be adding manga to that mix as more sites selling scans of commercially available manga translations are popping up.

[Kava]

Great links! That's exactly the type of things fans should be aware of. I'd never heard of either of those sites before.

[Leishu]

Excellent topic, but also a divisive one.

On Bootlegs: It is a very large problem when people are selling bootleg copies to Suncoast, only to have those resold by the store itself. When you've got illegal practices stretched into the corporate line (and, while Suncoast is -supposed- to check, they do not), then it is an industry-wide problem. Thusly, it is.

Ie: The Suncoast near where I live actually has about a half dozen Chinese-ripped subtitled copies of Fushigi Yuugi, bootleg, of course, sitting right next to the (still overpriced all these years later!) official box-sets. Which do you think the average, unaware that a bootleg business exists fan will pick? The expensive one or the cheap one?