I thought we, as a fandom, were very well behaved this year.
But I keep seeing posts about how Homestuck ruined Fanime for them or people saying something along the lines of, "Well, other non-anime fandoms like Doctor Who and My Little Pony are okay, but those damn Homestucks need to get out of my con!"
What, exactly, is so terrible about Homestuck? Sure, there are a few... eccentric members of the fandom, but hey, any fandom has its crazies. And like I said, as far as general behavior and sealing paint/makeup went, I think we did a pretty good job.
So other than the fact that Homestuck is not from Japan and it's not an anime, how has it ruined your con? Why does this one fandom get singled out more than any other?
Now, I'm not a Homestuck fan(I've never read it or taken an interest in it, just know what it is from this girl I met) but I brought up this exact point in another thread. I believe the hate is unwarranted. If MLP and Dr. Who can be accepted, why not Homestuck? I've seen the criticism come from the fact that the cosplays are "simple and lazy" and because it isn't anywhere close to Fanime in terms of being relevant due to it only being a web comic. My argument for the "too simple" excuse is cosplaying Vincent Brooks from Catherine. All he wears is pink polka dot boxers along with having horns when he's in the nightmares. It's similar to a Homestuck cosplay but never draws heat. All this hate is giving everyone the label of being a "Homestuck hater."
Maybe I will take a stab at this because I heard a LOT of chatter about non anime cosplay this year. I really think it comes down to the fact that there is so much non Anime related cosplay at an Anime Convention.
Homestuck gets singled out because there are SO MANY of you!! Sure there are a lot of Dr. Whos, super heroes, cartoons, Disney, whatever... but Homestuck costumes were e-very-where.
I have to say that there were a few of you that had beautiful costumes and amazing makeup and I really appreciated it. And I agree that, compared to previous years, you all seemed more "well behaved" as you put it. But the bottom line is that it is an Anime themed convention... and I think a lot of people just want to see Anime themed things.
Which brings up an interesting point... Lolita, jpop, gothic fairytale... these things seem to be OK even though they are not "anime" - interesting??
The thing is, conventions that stuck purely on theme have been a rarity for quite a long time now, and anime conventions themselves grew out of sci-fi/fantasy conventions long ago. Any fellow old-timers remember TimeCon? That was a Doctor Who convention back in the 80's, and there have been some anime-related stuff, including cosplay, back then. Some of us old-timers might also remember picking up the seminal BayCon anime guide back in that time period, which introduced us to series that would be considered old-school today.
The point? If the general sci-fi/fantasy and series-specific conventions of yesteryear were as intolerant then as some anime fans are towards other fandoms in their conventions today, anime fandom would be in a whole other place altogether, if at all. For anime fandom to say that other fandoms have no place in their conventions would be to forget the very roots of anime fandom.
Another point to consider: it is indeed possible for fans to be fans of multiple genres and shows. A fan who cosplays may decide one day to cosplay an anime or game character, and then turn around and cosplay something from a whole other genre at the same convention. There's just so much crossover in terms of interests these days that trying to keep conventions thematically pure is just impossible at this point. Further blurring the lines is some of that "other" stuff crossing over into anime (or at least Japanese airwaves). There have been Marvel-based anime and manga at this point. MLP is currently being shown in Japan. Not sure how much of a dent Homestuck would ever make with Japanese audiences, but stranger things have happened.
The point being is that, while Fanime may be an anime/manga-themed convention, the motto has always been By Fans For Fans. If the fans are into other stuff besides anime and manga and want to show their love for those things at the same convention, who really has the right to say otherwise? All it comes down to is some fans indulging in nerdrage and drawing lines that really shouldn't be there, since all they do is divide fans against each other.
Quote from: djmonolith on May 28, 2013, 12:28:25 AM
Maybe I will take a stab at this because I heard a LOT of chatter about non anime cosplay this year. I really think it comes down to the fact that there is so much non Anime related cosplay at an Anime Convention.
Homestuck gets singled out because there are SO MANY of you!! Sure there are a lot of Dr. Whos, super heroes, cartoons, Disney, whatever... but Homestuck costumes were e-very-where.
I have to say that there were a few of you that had beautiful costumes and amazing makeup and I really appreciated it. And I agree that, compared to previous years, you all seemed more "well behaved" as you put it. But the bottom line is that it is an Anime themed convention... and I think a lot of people just want to see Anime themed things.
Which brings up an interesting point... Lolita, jpop, gothic fairytale... these things seem to be OK even though they are not "anime" - interesting??
1st bold: I agree with that. I know in the Dealer's Hall, there was a booth that had a sign about saving what "little anime" is left there.
2nd bold: I did not even think about things like that in the "anime only" chatter concerning Fanime. Those things are seen as pretty normal for Fanime but aren't questioned. Really got me thinking about. Mind. Blown. (https://forums.fanime.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fth00.deviantart.net%2Ffs40%2F200H%2Ff%2F2009%2F011%2Fd%2F9%2FNaruto__Shocked_by_idahidaya.jpg&hash=213dfbb1c8650c1f261bb6295674bcb160b2f8b0)
Um really I hate a lot of fandoms.
Before Homestuck, it was the Naruto/Bleach/Kingdom Hearts Fans.
For me, it just because these groups tend to be made up of the most annoying, obnoxious teenagers I can imagine.
I really might be an odd ball but I really dislike Homestuck, not because of the series itself, but because one specific acquaintance in my life was a very annoying fan of a lot of things who simply spoiled a lot for me. Even with all my dislike... I honestly had no issues with the Homestuck fandom. If anything they were more behaved this year than last year, sure there were a lot of them in numbers but they like their series what are we going to do about it?
If we stop Homestuck from attending fanime we stop other series from coming too like Doctor Who, The Avengers, The Legend of Korra, Xmen, etc etc. The homestucks didn't bother me at all this year, if anything they were pretty damn polite with their huge number of fans.
Ok I better get into these discussions about Homestuck.
Being the Pinkie Pie that was asked to help moderate the 500+ gathering in the park I have to say that I was VERY PLEASED about everyone's behavior at the gathering. I am not into Homestuck but I had no opinions about the fandom before con. I was asked by the cosplay department to help them moderate the gathering seeing as I also am the organizer for Valve and My Little Pony (Yes, let your hate fly towards me for organizing 2 non-anime gatherings) which also can get 100+ in attendees. I was very happy that everyone at Homestuck listened to us and that there were no incidences to my knowledge. Maybe last year there was worst behavior coming from the fandom but I was pleased by it this year. Around con I didn't have any bad experiences with the Homestucks so I am glad to have there here ^^
Quote from: Stormfalcon on May 28, 2013, 12:45:49 AM
The point being is that, while Fanime may be an anime/manga-themed convention, the motto has always been By Fans For Fans. If the fans are into other stuff besides anime and manga and want to show their love for those things at the same convention, who really has the right to say otherwise? All it comes down to is some fans indulging in nerdrage and drawing lines that really shouldn't be there, since all they do is divide fans against each other.
This. So much this.
Been going to Fanime for five years now and its never felt like an "Anime only" thing. Sure, its the majority, but the most memorable cosplays I've seen have been non-anime. Last year there were a couple ginormous Transformers costumes that completely rocked and the Mushroom Kingdom SWAT Team kicked all kinds of ass. It's a convention whose underpinnings are definitely more "Fan" than "Anime", but even still, anime cosplay and culture still dominates.
To that end, the Homestuck hatred doesn't seem to be a matter of fandom, but a matter of quantity. The fandom is super popular, so it has a lot more people which means it contains, by rule of numbers, more difficult fans as well. Not to mention that the sheer number of the fans can sometimes create a "Mob mentality", which is where I think most of the Homestuck distaste comes from.
It really is the flavor of the month, though. Once Homestuck starts to lose popularity or end it will fall into place with the other fandoms and people will forget about all this. It happened to the Naruto fans, it happened to the Bronies, and now its happening to you.
You have my sympathies, but rest assured, the discrimination will weather with time. I wouldn't be surprised if the Homestucks got much more respect next year.
I really do not think at all it's a 'not Anime' problem.
I think the problem lies in the fact that there are so many and many just happen to be these very loud and untactful young attendees.
Also, a reason why we're accepting of cosplay such as Marvel or cosplay from video games is because they're great.
I'm not saying Homestuck cosplay isn't good, it's just uninspired.
Quote from: Xanreo on May 28, 2013, 08:29:08 PM
I think the problem lies in the fact that there are so many and many just happen to be these very loud and untactful young attendees.
This^. I have never read Homestuck but nearly every person I have encountered dressed up as Homestuck has been rude, disrespectful, and overall some of the loudest attendees I have ever encountered. I'm not saying all Homestuck cosplayers / fans are like this but from the many I have encountered, it has just been disaster.
Quote from: Stormfalcon on May 28, 2013, 12:45:49 AM
The point being is that, while Fanime may be an anime/manga-themed convention, the motto has always been By Fans For Fans. If the fans are into other stuff besides anime and manga and want to show their love for those things at the same convention, who really has the right to say otherwise? All it comes down to is some fans indulging in nerdrage and drawing lines that really shouldn't be there, since all they do is divide fans against each other.
I couldn't agree more! We as a fan based community should strive for tolerance and acceptance, regardless of the group or culture. I firmly believe that if one wants to see more "anime" or any particular genre related cosplay, media, etc, then take the initiative and create it! We are all capable of creating greatness, why depend on someone else for it?
Quote from: amre1204 on May 28, 2013, 08:35:25 PM
Quote from: Xanreo on May 28, 2013, 08:29:08 PM
I think the problem lies in the fact that there are so many and many just happen to be these very loud and untactful young attendees.
This^. I have never read Homestuck but nearly every person I have encountered dressed up as Homestuck has been rude, disrespectful, and overall some of the loudest attendees I have ever encountered. I'm not saying all Homestuck cosplayers / fans are like this but from the many I have encountered, it has just been disaster.
this is why i dislike them, nearly all of my encounters with homestuck has been annoying and makes me wanna hit them with a pan. i went to AoD earlier this year and the ones i encountered were annoying as fuck. i was surprised none this year at fanime were annoying but i still just didnt like the huge number of them is all
Homestuck is very simple in terms of cosplay and most don't like it because there can be ama cosplay that took a long time to create but gets less attention than the mainstream homestuck.
Quote from: 01 on May 28, 2013, 09:52:05 PM
Homestuck is very simple in terms of cosplay and most don't like it because there can be ama cosplay that took a long time to create but gets less attention than the mainstream homestuck.
This is a good comment but I don't see "mainstream homestuck" getting more attention than amazing cosplay. Not at all! What makes you think that homestuck gets more attention than amazing cosplay? Is it "negative" attention?
I want to add that really brilliant cosplayers may feel that they don't get as much attention because they are so spectacular that many people may feel a bit in awe. You stand there while hoards of people climb over each other to get a photo but no one really talks to you. While most homestuckers don't really have that problem... they just hang out.
I don't know... I am just rambling here. Bored. I am in post-fanime come down. :(
Next year my Princess Jellyfish and Perona costumes will put me in the "less attention" category.
^as in "mainstream " i meant this year's top cosplay listing score (sorry if mainstream sounded bad) . The top listing score had 1.Homestuck 2.soul eater 3.madoka 4.Pokemon 5.legend of Korra.
Quote from: 01 on May 28, 2013, 10:13:29 PM
^as in "mainstream " i meant this year's top cosplay listing score (sorry if mainstream sounded bad) . The top listing score had 1.Homestuck 2.soul eater 3.madoka 4.Pokemon 5.legend of Korra.
hmmm... yeah, i understand now!
*enlightened
I have nothing against Homestuck, or any group of cosplayers/non-cosplayers for that matter. Even if they're not that much into anime or Japanese culture, I would think that since they have an open enough mind to go to an anime convention, they might end up finding something about it they really like.
My husband is a photographer and he got really upset this year because Homestuck was everywhere! They had the hugest gathering in the park, two huge panels, and within a one foot radius was one Homestuck character everywhere we went. ( I joke not about that)
Personally I don't mind, but I admit it kind of over shadows the anime aspect of FanimeCon. But like our con's motto " By Fans For Fans", all aspects of anime,cartoons, and series culture are invited.
I think eventually the Homestuck Phenomenon will eventually die down in a few years, or perhaps not *insert Dr. Who *
With that being said we have no right to judge what people decide to cosplay as. I don't like Homestuck at all, but I give them props for even taking the time to dress up. As long as they treat others with respect that's great.
Maybe they can make their own con :P
Quote from: 01 on May 28, 2013, 10:13:29 PM
^as in "mainstream " i meant this year's top cosplay listing score (sorry if mainstream sounded bad) . The top listing score had 1.Homestuck 2.soul eater 3.madoka 4.Pokemon 5.legend of Korra.
This just made me cringe. My darling Naruto has dropped down substantially :'(
^6. Sailor Moon 7. Vocaloids 8. Naruto
Homestuck has a good story line and that's good :D
Homestuck cosplay is simple and easy? Really? Well, I suppose it can be, if you're not putting in a whole lot of effort. But doing homestuck cosplay well takes a lot of work. I'm not just talking about the trolls. My cosplay personally took me all year. I can find and cite many examples of amazingly complicated Homestuck cosplays.
As for the sheer amount, I have no idea what to do about that. It's not like Homestuck can break off and have its own con. There have been discussions on the MSPA forums, and it was decided that a Homestuck-oriented con would not be viable at this time. Other than cosplay, what kind of programming would there be? And where would it take place? Where would the funding come from?
I deeply apologize if some cosplayers were personally rude to anyone. I hope no one thinks they represent the fandom as a whole. Almost everyone I personally know in the fandom is extremely pleasant.
What do you propose we, as a fandom, should do to make this less of a problem? Just stop enjoying it? Stop cosplaying it? Try to use tumblr to continue spreading the word of "Don't be an asshole, you're making us look bad"?
Quote from: 01 on May 28, 2013, 11:08:59 PM
^6. Sailor Moon 7. Vocaloids 8. Naruto
Homestuck has a good story line and that's good :D
(https://forums.fanime.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.deathsdoorprods.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fanime-crying-lee-lee-meeeeeeeu-amplt3-naruto-rock-lee-Favim.com-80483.jpg&hash=743bb447fd656d7a27c4c934fb4c69f47fddd4da)
Quote from: kookiekween99 on May 28, 2013, 11:35:57 PM
Homestuck cosplay is simple and easy? Really? Well, I suppose it can be, if you're not putting in a whole lot of effort. But doing homestuck cosplay well takes a lot of work. I'm not just talking about the trolls. My cosplay personally took me all year. I can find and cite many examples of amazingly complicated Homestuck cosplays.
As for the sheer amount, I have no idea what to do about that. It's not like Homestuck can break off and have its own con. There have been discussions on the MSPA forums, and it was decided that a Homestuck-oriented con would not be viable at this time. Other than cosplay, what kind of programming would there be? And where would it take place? Where would the funding come from?
I deeply apologize if some cosplayers were personally rude to anyone. I hope no one thinks they represent the fandom as a whole. Almost everyone I personally know in the fandom is extremely pleasant.
What do you propose we, as a fandom, should do to make this less of a problem? Just stop enjoying it? Stop cosplaying it? Try to use tumblr to continue spreading the word of "Don't be an asshole, you're making us look bad"?
With every cosplay group, there will always be people who act like asses. It gives a bad image for everyone who cosplays it because then people tend to stereotype. It's a wrong mindset to have honestly. I personally don't judge Homestuck cosplayers as a whole, I treat it on an individual basis. All cosplayers of it I talked to were quite friendly. I'd just say keep doing what you're doing if you personally are being polite and respectful of others; ignore haters.
are you talking about my thread? if so, i never hated it, just dont call it an anime like some people were...thats all
Quote from: spycker on May 28, 2013, 11:54:40 PM
are you talking about my thread? if so, i never hated it, just dont call it an anime like some people were...thats all
Not just that thread. I saw it in several other threads as well.
I'm not a Homestuck fan by any means, but the reason for the hate is mostly idiotic nerd internet grudges boiling over into real life. I'm fully aware a lot of the Homestuck fandom is insane, but jesus, applying it to an entire group is stupid as hell. Same reason why Naruto cosplayers get bashed to hell and back.
Also, the 'don't cosplay things that are simple and easy' bullshit needs to die. NEWS FLASH, NERD: No one but you and your group of shitty elitists care.
Quote from: JackMackerel on May 29, 2013, 12:18:31 AM
I'm not a Homestuck fan by any means, but the reason for the hate is mostly idiotic nerd internet grudges boiling over into real life. I'm fully aware a lot of the Homestuck fandom is insane, but jesus, applying it to an entire group is stupid as hell. Same reason why Naruto cosplayers get bashed to hell and back.
Also, the 'don't cosplay things that are simple and easy' bullshit needs to die. NEWS FLASH, NERD: No one but you and your group of shitty elitists care.
I didn't even know that us Naruto cosplayers were still on the hot seat. Damn, people hold grudges forever!
Quote from: PinkHairSasuke on May 29, 2013, 12:21:26 AM
Quote from: JackMackerel on May 29, 2013, 12:18:31 AM
I'm not a Homestuck fan by any means, but the reason for the hate is mostly idiotic nerd internet grudges boiling over into real life. I'm fully aware a lot of the Homestuck fandom is insane, but jesus, applying it to an entire group is stupid as hell. Same reason why Naruto cosplayers get bashed to hell and back.
Also, the 'don't cosplay things that are simple and easy' bullshit needs to die. NEWS FLASH, NERD: No one but you and your group of shitty elitists care.
I didn't even know that us Naruto cosplayers were still on the hot seat. Damn, people hold grudges forever!
I heard people bitch about the fandom as a whole this year, out loud,
twice. Jesus, it's 2013, give it a rest, people!
As to obnoxious Homestuck fans --
I have encountered obnoxious HS fans before. There are going to be obnoxious people in any fandom, and in a large fandom like HS, there are going to be more, just because of the sheer number of fans. Those obnoxious people are going to stand out more than anyone else, just because they are more visible.
However, at this con, I ran into very, very few obnoxious or rude HS cosplayers. In fact, I was really, really happy because the vast majority of Homestucks I ran into were incredibly nice and polite. Homestucks, more than any other fandom I've been a part of, have a way of instantly accepting people. Some of the absolute nicest people I met at this con were Homestucks.
Here's an example. At the start of the gathering, I was really upset because my costume that I worked really hard on wasn't working out, I was late to the gathering, and I was in panic mode. I got to the gathering, and everyone understood perfectly and made me feel right at home. Someone who was cosplaying the same character I was took me aside and her dad fixed my horns so they would stay upright (which was the problem I was having), and they remained fairly stable for the rest of the gathering, though they were so large that I could hardly move. Without me even asking for help, perfect strangers were willing to step in and do almost anything for me because they knew that I had limited mobility. I was feeling much better at this point, because everyone helped me out so much and was so kind to me, even though I wasn't nearly as personable as I usually am because I started out being quite upset and then ended up feeling much better but in incredible pain and not being able to move my head much because of the amount of weight on it (27" horns, three 100cm wigs attached together, long ponytail clips, etc.) and because of the size and instability of my horns. Really, everyone there saved my entire day, maybe my entire con, from being a bad experience because they were all so, so good to me when I was having quite a bad day. I didn't personally witness anyone being rude or obnoxious at the gathering. It was huge, yes, but everyone there was FANTASTIC. (In comparison, I was at the Final Fantasy gathering the day before, and people were much, much less considerate -- stepping on my bag, not paying attention and walking into my costume, being rude, etc. There were plenty of great people there, too, but I didn't get nearly the same treatment by FF fans as I did by HS fans. I was in large and elaborate costumes for both gatherings.)
HS fans also seem to be the most likely to treat a cosplayer as a person in a costume, not as some pretty thing to be looked at/photographed/touched, which I'm thankful for. Again, in comparison to the FF gathering, I was treated like a person in an elaborate costume, not as just as elaborate costume.
As for HS cosplays being lazy, yes, some of them are pretty simple (my "lazy" cosplay, which consists of a knit dress, short wig, and boots, that I wear when I'm too tired to wear something else, is HS, and many of the costumes are simple shirts and pants), but a lot of other series have simple outfits, as well, there just aren't as many of them. I'd personally rather see someone dress up in a simple cosplay from something they like than not dress up at all because they don't have the right skills to make a costume. There are also a lot of really elaborate costumes that people do, whether canon or AU, and the people who want to do these outfits do these outfits. They are probably the same people who would be making an elaborate costume from something else if hey weren't into HS, but instead make a HS ballgown or an ancestor troll from giant horns and lots of detailing. My costume involved the aforementioned 27" horns, a 6+" double trident, a neoprene suit with applique work, and lots of jewelry. It isn't the most elaborate HS costume design out there, by far, but is anything but lazy. (My Sunday night costume was also HS and also not lazy -- it was a very fancy Rose cosplay, complete with blinged-out knitting needles)
I'm not going to touch the East vs. West debate, but I thought I'd put in some of my own personal experiences with how AMAZING the HS fandom can be, especially in comparison to other fandoms.
Quote from: kookiekween99 on May 28, 2013, 11:35:57 PM
Homestuck cosplay is simple and easy? Really? Well, I suppose it can be, if you're not putting in a whole lot of effort. But doing homestuck cosplay well takes a lot of work. I'm not just talking about the trolls. My cosplay personally took me all year. I can find and cite many examples of amazingly complicated Homestuck cosplays.
Those who do not put any effort into are the ones people are talking abut when they say ' lazy' The first time I saw HS cosplay, there were a whole lot of them but every single one was just the jeans and a T-shirt costumes. Back then I think only saw one person with horns.
Since then some of them have gotten a lot more complex, some are very nice with obvious effort put into it.
To me, when people do 'lazy costumes' I wonder if they're actually fans of the series or just wanted to cosplay as SOMETHING and thought ' hey that looks easy".
I wondered the same when Death note and "L" cosplay was at it's peak.
It's weird, this year, there were a LOT more Homestuckers putting way more effort into the horns and full-body grey makeup.
Quote from: Yuu- pon on May 29, 2013, 11:48:27 AM
Quote from: kookiekween99 on May 28, 2013, 11:35:57 PM
Homestuck cosplay is simple and easy? Really? Well, I suppose it can be, if you're not putting in a whole lot of effort. But doing homestuck cosplay well takes a lot of work. I'm not just talking about the trolls. My cosplay personally took me all year. I can find and cite many examples of amazingly complicated Homestuck cosplays.
Those who do not put any effort into are the ones people are talking abut when they say ' lazy' The first time I saw HS cosplay, there were a whole lot of them but every single one was just the jeans and a T-shirt costumes. Back then I think only saw one person with horns.
Since then some of them have gotten a lot more complex, some are very nice with obvious effort put into it.
To me, when people do 'lazy costumes' I wonder if they're actually fans of the series or just wanted to cosplay as SOMETHING and thought ' hey that looks easy".
I wondered the same when Death note and "L" cosplay was at it's peak.
I remember when L used to be everywhere. Probably one of the simplest cosplays ever.
>homestuck included with the words good plot and storyline
Quote from: Rhornez on June 03, 2013, 11:28:26 AM
>homestuck included with the words good plot and storyline
Unless you've read it yourself, you can't really judge, now can you?
It's one thing to judge a fandom by its fans. It's another to judge the source material based on its fans.
My first exposure to Homestuck: It was either Fanime '09 or '10, I forget, I noticed all these people in what looked like really simple cosplay. Then I noticed slight variations between them, and figured it must be some series I've never heard of. I politely asked one of the Homestuck cosplayers who they were, and I was really put off by the smug attitude I was given. It was like cosplay hipsterism, I was more or less given a "It's a web comic, duh. You've probably never heard of it." Well 1,000 pardons, ma'am, I guess I'm out of the loop and should stay there. Smugness, or righteous indignation seems to be the general reaction to not being aware of their little niche.
Don't worry about them, or try to ban this type of cosplay. It is a fad, and the problem will eventually work itself out.
Quote from: Amanojaku on June 03, 2013, 02:02:45 PM
My first exposure to Homestuck: It was either Fanime '09 or '10, I forget, I noticed all these people in what looked like really simple cosplay. Then I noticed slight variations between them, and figured it must be some series I've never heard of. I politely asked one of the Homestuck cosplayers who they were, and I was really put off by the smug attitude I was given. It was like cosplay hipsterism, I was more or less given a "It's a web comic, duh. You've probably never heard of it." Well 1,000 pardons, ma'am, I guess I'm out of the loop and should stay there. Smugness, or righteous indignation seems to be the general reaction to not being aware of their little niche.
Don't worry about them, or try to ban this type of cosplay. It is a fad, and the problem will eventually work itself out.
^That
Quote from: kookiekween99 on June 03, 2013, 12:47:20 PM
Quote from: Rhornez on June 03, 2013, 11:28:26 AM
>homestuck included with the words good plot and storyline
Unless you've read it yourself, you can't really judge, now can you?
It's one thing to judge a fandom by its fans. It's another to judge the source material based on its fans.
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
and it sucked massively.
Quote from: Rhornez on June 03, 2013, 05:37:15 PM
Quote from: kookiekween99 on June 03, 2013, 12:47:20 PM
Quote from: Rhornez on June 03, 2013, 11:28:26 AM
>homestuck included with the words good plot and storyline
Unless you've read it yourself, you can't really judge, now can you?
It's one thing to judge a fandom by its fans. It's another to judge the source material based on its fans.
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
and it sucked massively.
I apologize for my erroneous assumption, and I'm sorry that you did not enjoy it.
Quote from: Rhornez on June 03, 2013, 11:28:26 AM
>homestuck included with the words good plot and storyline
le epic may may!!
p.s.: Don't do this.
Quote from: JackMackerel on June 04, 2013, 08:26:35 PM
Quote from: Rhornez on June 03, 2013, 11:28:26 AM
>homestuck included with the words good plot and storyline
le epic may may!!
p.s.: Don't do this.
le epic may may??
Maybe it's because homestuck is a webcomic and not anime as in f-anime. But that wouldn't make sense because fanime dealers sell comics. The only thing that wouldn't really fit in this convention in particular would be people dressing up based on real life people or actors.
Quote from: Rhornez on June 04, 2013, 09:29:33 PM
Quote from: JackMackerel on June 04, 2013, 08:26:35 PM
Quote from: Rhornez on June 03, 2013, 11:28:26 AM
>homestuck included with the words good plot and storyline
le epic may may!!
p.s.: Don't do this.
le epic may may??
I think they're trying to make a joke on the word "meme", though I'm not 100% sure what that has to do with this conversation.
Quote from: 01 on June 05, 2013, 10:05:09 PM
Maybe it's because homestuck is a webcomic and not anime as in f-anime. But that wouldn't make sense because fanime dealers sell comics. The only thing that wouldn't really fit in this convention in particular would be people dressing up based on real life people or actors.
Now I have to cancel my Neil Patrick Harris cosplay.
Quote from: PinkHairSasuke on June 06, 2013, 07:45:06 AM
Quote from: 01 on June 05, 2013, 10:05:09 PM
Maybe it's because homestuck is a webcomic and not anime as in f-anime. But that wouldn't make sense because fanime dealers sell comics. The only thing that wouldn't really fit in this convention in particular would be people dressing up based on real life people or actors.
Now I have to cancel my Neil Patrick Harris cosplay.
As Doogie Howser... or as a unicorn?
Quote from: kookiekween99 on June 05, 2013, 11:04:05 PM
Quote from: Rhornez on June 04, 2013, 09:29:33 PM
Quote from: JackMackerel on June 04, 2013, 08:26:35 PM
Quote from: Rhornez on June 03, 2013, 11:28:26 AM
>homestuck included with the words good plot and storyline
le epic may may!!
p.s.: Don't do this.
le epic may may??
I think they're trying to make a joke on the word "meme", though I'm not 100% sure what that has to do with this conversation.
Oh i know that, i just dont get why people will think its funny at all lol
Quote from: djmonolith on June 06, 2013, 09:00:57 AM
Quote from: PinkHairSasuke on June 06, 2013, 07:45:06 AM
Quote from: 01 on June 05, 2013, 10:05:09 PM
Maybe it's because homestuck is a webcomic and not anime as in f-anime. But that wouldn't make sense because fanime dealers sell comics. The only thing that wouldn't really fit in this convention in particular would be people dressing up based on real life people or actors.
Now I have to cancel my Neil Patrick Harris cosplay.
As Doogie Howser... or as a unicorn?
As Doogie Howser dressing as a unicorn haha
I personally think its because more and more of the non-anime related cosplayers aren't really into the anime scene and go within groups of friends as something they want themselves. Homestuckers or not to me, I saw more of non-costumed plain clothed attendees this year.
Quote from: Maskenlav on June 07, 2013, 06:45:44 PM
I personally think its because more and more of the non-anime related cosplayers aren't really into the anime scene and go within groups of friends as something they want themselves. Homestuckers or not to me, I saw more of non-costumed plain clothed attendees this year.
What's wrong with going un-costumed? I've been watching anime for 18 years (I'm only 23), been going to Fanime since 1999 (nearing 100 total conventions) and seen over 1400 anime series and have never really been into the cosplay thing.
Just because an attendee is "non-costumed plain clothed" doesn't mean that they aren't into the "anime scene".
EDIT: Regarding the "Homestuck hate". I have no problem with it and have seen similar influxes of fans ever since I started attending. In the late '90's-early '00's EVERYONE was obsessed with Eva, somewhere around 2004 there was a massive influx of Naruto cosplayers and fans, then we've seen Hetalia, My Little Pony and Homestuck in the past few years.
I wasn't a big fan of any of those "shows" at the time (partially due to watching Eva as an 8 year old) but have learned that the fandoms settle down in time.
Naruto, bleach, hetalia, mlp and now homestuck. I wonder whats next that ppl are gonna hate. I personally dont give a shizo. Ive been at every fanime since 1996, i have seen it all. This will pass as everythin else does. Nothing lives forever. Everything has an end. Even a time lord. :-)
There was also more Pokemon and blue exorcist this year. Not so much shugo chara as last year. Definitely a lot of homestuck, legend of Zelda, and legend of Korra. Ib is starting to become a thing. :9
Quote from: eralston on June 07, 2013, 07:14:01 PM
Quote from: Maskenlav on June 07, 2013, 06:45:44 PM
I personally think its because more and more of the non-anime related cosplayers aren't really into the anime scene and go within groups of friends as something they want themselves. Homestuckers or not to me, I saw more of non-costumed plain clothed attendees this year.
What's wrong with going un-costumed? I've been watching anime for 18 years (I'm only 23), been going to Fanime since 1999 (nearing 100 total conventions) and seen over 1400 anime series and have never really been into the cosplay thing.
Just because an attendee is "non-costumed plain clothed" doesn't mean that they aren't into the "anime scene".
EDIT: Regarding the "Homestuck hate". I have no problem with it and have seen similar influxes of fans ever since I started attending. In the late '90's-early '00's EVERYONE was obsessed with Eva, somewhere around 2004 there was a massive influx of Naruto cosplayers and fans, then we've seen Hetalia, My Little Pony and Homestuck in the past few years.
I wasn't a big fan of any of those "shows" at the time (partially due to watching Eva as an 8 year old) but have learned that the fandoms settle down in time.
Nothing is wrong with that, I went one year in 08 plain clothed. I was just pointing out the turnout since people said Homestuck took over the con, so I semi-defended Homestuckers by saying there were MORE plain clothed non cosplayers this year :P
And to reply to your edit I remember when Hellsing was the popular anime around 07 in front of the
MISSED AND NEVER FORGOTTEN fountains *tears* so many Herr Majors, Rip Van Winkles, Seras, Schrodinger, and Herr Doktors LOL
Quote from: EJAY420 on June 07, 2013, 08:07:38 PM
Naruto, bleach, hetalia, mlp and now homestuck. I wonder whats next that ppl are gonna hate. I personally dont give a shizo. Ive been at every fanime since 1996, i have seen it all. This will pass as everythin else does. Nothing lives forever. Everything has an end. Even a time lord. :-)
Naruto will live forever! We have the Will of Fire! :P
I have never read Homestuck, and probably never will, so I cannot form an opinion of it beyond: "Listening to the people who are into it describe it, it doesn't seem interesting enough for me to check it out." Most of the Homestuck cosplayers I met seemed to be pretty nice people, if sometimes a little monomyopic. One thing I do have to say. I went to a panel that was in a room right after a homestuck panel. When I went in, there was a bunch of trash on the floor, and some-one left a 1/3 full soda can open, on it's side, on the carpet. I picked it up and threw it out, but I have to say that I thought that was bad form.
If I may say, as a Homestuck cosplayer and fan, I'm ashamed to hear that the fandom is frowned upon. It's understandable that people have had bad experiences with individuals, but that doesn't make everyone bad. And don't worry, as I was dressed up in a Homestuck costume, even my fellow Homestuckers gave me dirty looks, as it was my first year of being decked out in grey, and my costume wasn't as clean as theirs (At least my grey didn't get on anything, which I am damn well proud of.)
Cosplaying for the series is a bit difficult, though. The Model Magic Horns I made took two weeks, mixing the Ben Nye together took a week and a half, I'm learning to sew and style wigs for the rest of my costume, and it's not a complete costume without knowing the mentality of the character. I've put months of effort into who my character is, and it's sad to see that people can't accept that. That if you're dressed up as a certain character, you must be a bad person. You can't judge a book by its cover, that's really all there is to say.
I just wish people would get over it if they don't like it. I've had my fair share of annoyances from Naruto cosplayers and don't much care for the show or manga, but that doesn't mean it's stupid or that EVERYONE who cosplays from it is annoying. I just think if you don't like it, ignore it. Why let it keep bugging you in the first place? Just turn away and don't look at it if you really can't stand it.
It doesn't matter what fandom it is really. If it exists, someone is gonna hate on it. I'd rather focus my attention on things I like instead of complaining or being rude to people that might be very nice.
Speaking from my experience, a friend of mine went along as a character from homestuck last year, and though I may not like the source material, I can truly respect and admire her drive for completing such a wonderful display of cosplay and wearing it proudly.
Truth be told, I'm going to be honest here, I don't consider myself a fan of most animes. There's nothing wrong with them, just not for me. Yet I attend fanime every year. Why? The cosplayers, of course~
One doesn't need to love, or, hell, even moderately ENJOY the source material to appreciate amazing and awesome cosplay. As long as a person enjoys something themselves enough to put time and effort into a piece, and as long as they're having FUN with it and allowing others to do the same, they deserve nothing other than praise and respect~ :3
I don't hate Homestuck itself, I just dislike the more obnoxious/rude fans. I personally tried to get into it myself, but it's just not my cup of tea.
Also, it doesn't really bother me that there's cosplays/fandoms of other stuff besides anime at anime conventions. It was bound to happen, anyway. Then again I cosplay from other stuff besides anime and bring those cosplays to conventions whether it be an anime convention or a comic convention.
To be completely honest, I don't think Homestuck (or MLP, or anything of the like) has a place in Fanime. To start, it's an ANIME convention, and therefore should not be associated with the con in the first place. If possible, they should have their own seperate theme convention (like Clockwork Alchemy does for steampunk).
It's been a while since I've been into Homestuck but I've seen the "let's give them their own convention" solution come up a few times and in my experience, that won't work. I know a number of Homestuck fans who will take any opportunity to cosplay from Homestuck so like, if it were a convention going on another weekend, it probably wouldn't have much of an impact at all. If it were going on simultaneously (like Clockwork Alchemy) I think numbers would be reduced but there would still be a LOT of spill over since Fanime is huge, has a lot of traffic, and has different events going on.
In reality, it's gonna die out. Maybe not entirely, but its fandom already seems to be dwindling (I'm saying this as an outside observer at this point, so I'm not 100% sure)
I get what you're saying (I've definitely felt the most fulfilled at Fanime when I've cosplayed from anime or participated in related events) but I don't think there's really a way to make it happen? Just my two cents.
Quote from: keitoghostie on January 29, 2014, 11:12:39 PM
In reality, it's gonna die out. Maybe not entirely, but its fandom already seems to be dwindling (I'm saying this as an outside observer at this point, so I'm not 100% sure)
That's probably because the comic is currently on hiatus. The author decided to write the rest of the comic and then post it all at once and then it will be done.
I'm a little late on this and I haven't read this entire thread, but I'll just write some stuff here. I'm making a comic about conventions, and have done research on a number of things to get information. Not 100% accurate but hope to help all you homestuck fans not be left out and think everyone is against you.
1) In a convention it doesn't matter if you're in costume, if you look like a dork, if you stand out, if you're a photographer, an artist, a gamer, blah blah. It really doesn't matter. So cross this idea out of your mind. If this was the situation you'd be kicked out of the con before you can walk in and there'd be some crazy code of conduct written about it. So no, it's not because of the way you dress. Unless you're stark naked or something, which I don't think you'd do unless you want to tarnish your fandom's name.
2) Just like any other fandom, from american cartoons, to live action shows, webcomics are celebrated too. Look around you, how many dr whos do you see? This is not an excuse, so cross this idea out too.
3) I agree with the age, and this is only a small fraction of the reason. Usually cosplayers are taught by older cosplayers...what we call the 'code of conduct'. Homestuck buddies can be as fun as anyone, but just because you love the fandom and dress up, you should still be considerate of everyone around you and not do anything reckless. I'm not talking about sexual harrassment, I'm talking about being rowdy, creating scenes, stuff like that. From a cosplayer's perspective, there are rules everyone knows, like glomping, free hugs, blah blah things you should know because someone else told you. But for homestuck cosplayers, a lot of times it's like a tiny little person diving into a giant pool of other things and learning to float with the rest of your buddies, and the rest of you don't quite know the ropes of proper behavior yet. You've probably never cosplayed before, your peers are usually about the same, so everyone's just unaware of what's okay and not okay to do. Being in your circle shuts you off from learning why too.
Act more courteous to other cosplayers, open up to them, be polite, and cosplayers will open up to you as well. For all of you guys who just complain about your group having a bad rep, be a good role model for your group by learning the ropes yourself and teaching the rest of your group. Bad reputation doesn't just pop out of nowhere. Learn to act accordingly, and teach it to your peers. If you ever have a question, ask an older cosplayer and they shall teach you. we've all learned like that.
And just so I don't end up having the whole homestuck community hate me just because it doesn't apply to the one or two people who are reading this, I'm not saying it's EVERY homestuck cosplayer. It's just a trend I am seeing around the meets and conventions I've gone to the past few years.
--- This is my personal opinion and in no way reflect that of Fanime Staff or my department ---
Any community that failed to embrace new groups are destine to die. I have grown up and been a part of conventions for over 39 years, I was conceived at a convention and this pattern repeated itself over and over. Homestuck is new, it is developing its own social norms and its growing. So as a community we have the choice of embracing them, bringing them into the fold and making them a part of this crazy thing we call Fanime.
Not to many decades ago Anime was considered a fringe group of annoying kids who were "ruining" conventions. Their rejection is what caused Anime to create their own conventions and to break away from sci-fi fandom and resulted in the current schism. If anything as Fanime
grows it should grow and evolve, let smaller groups under our big tent and allow people to do cosplay on friday, Dr who on Saturday morning, clockwork in the afternoon and jpop. Give people choices, but remember our roots.
Homestuck folks:
You need an event, something for your people to focus on and to be respected. The gathering in the park if a great start, but I would personally love to see you have an event. If its something like having everyone donate their time (since many are young and the one thing they have in abundance is time) to the convention.
I can tell you that one thing we need is volunteers on thursday, If the Homestuck community stepped up and volunteered hours to the convention on thursday and even hosted some events like a rave, helped the swap meet or something you came up with, it would make a huge difference in the perception of the group.
If your community owns making Thursday rock for fanime, I am certain you will be seen in another (brighter) light.
Quick "State of the Fandom" update post-Fanime 2014:
I actually think there was less Homestuck this year. I don't really have numbers to back me up on that (and I didn't stay for the entire gathering), but just looking around, there were fewer cosplayers from it. The gathering was probably about the same size, maybe slightly smaller. The fandom seems to be slowly shrinking, probably because the comic is nearing the end and is currently on hiatus. I'm sure that the natural cycle of fandoms growing and then fading away is taking place, as well.
As for the behavior of HS fans, I didn't really notice anything too out of the ordinary either way, on either the good side or the bad side. There were the obnoxious fans, and there were the good fans, but mostly it was just normal amounts of excitement and energy, as most fans are younger and still rather excitable (and maybe don't quite know how to conduct themselves at a con yet).
There were a few incidents that make me want to push slightly more towards overall negative when it comes to conduct, but I don't think it would be too much different with any other fandom composed of a similar age range and of a similar size. Three things stand out — the major thing was that just before the gathering, a newlywed couple and their wedding party walked through the park where everyone was gathered, and fans surrounded them and started chanting "OTP! OTP!," which is rather disrespectful. I couldn't see this happen (I was wearing the same complicated cosplay from last year, and I sat on a bench to eat some ice cream, so my back was turned to the wedding processional when the chanting was happening) , so I don't know how disruptive it was to the wedding, but I felt that it was in very poor taste on the part of the fans. I won't excuse this behavior with the excuse that it was a lot of the younger fans gathered at this time and that they were probably really excited and energetic because the gathering was about to start, since I don't think that's a good enough excuse. I also don't know how many people did this, though I might be able to find pictures on tumblr or some other site.
The second thing is more minor, which is that I had way more people than usual hug me without asking first. I really don't like to be touched, especially by strangers, and while most people stopped after I told them not to hug me and/or was obviously uncomfortable with it, it doesn't change the fact that people did it to begin with. In the cosplay I was in, I couldn't easily make any defensive moves to avoid the hugs (which is what I usually do right before I tell people to please not touch me without asking, thanks), and while everyone who did it was gentle and small and not in unsealed paint, it could have been a lot worse if people were large or rough (since I'm fairly small myself, but was also a bit unstable in 6" heels and 27" horns and carrying a bag, a container of cupcakes, and a 6'8" trident) or if they were in unsealed paint (and got my nice black bodysuit all stained just before my photoshoot). It wasn't a huge deal, but it happened a LOT. I had maybe half a dozen to a dozen people suddenly hug me without permission, which is bothersome.
The third thing is that a lot of the fans seemed a lot younger? I mean, there were the regulars around, and a lot of people in the typical mid-to-late-teens age range, but there seemed to be an influx of younger teens and even tweens and younger. I don't know if it's simply that I'm getting older so younger people are looking even younger, but there seemed to be a much larger number of particularly young folks, especially at the gathering. I talked to numerous people where this was their first con, as well.
There were plenty of good people, as well — Dinnerstuck was fab, as always, and there were lots of cool people, calm people, nice people, etc. I didn't really witness any rudeness, which was good. I did get the perennial "that's Homestuck??!!" reactions when I wore my ballgown, which is always fun. ;] (People expect really simple designs and grey skin, so cosplaying a human in an elaborate ballgown tends to throw people off!)
I think that except at places where Homestucks officially gather (the gathering, Dinnerstuck, etc.), a lot of members of the fandom have moved on to other things, so a lot of the newer fans, younger fans, more obsessive fans, etc. have stayed behind and stayed visible. I know that a lot of HS cosplayers have moved on to other series (as I likely will once the comic ends), and spend the majority of their con in cosplays from those other series rather than in HS cosplay. Even if these people are still fans and part of the fandom otherwise, they are no longer visible as HS fans, leaving the most visible segment of the fandom as the younger and more obsessive fans.
There has also been a lot less push from within the fandom recently to improve the image of the fandom, which is unfortunate, and possibly has contributed to the perception of the fandom this year. I've also seen fewer complaints about the fandom, so it may just be slipping off everyone's radars.
Though, take a lot of this with a grain of salt, since I don't really participate in the fandom much aside from cosplay (and running Dinnerstuck...actually, I'm probably more visible in the larger fan community than I think!), so I don't have as much of an insider's perspective as some do that actively participate in the fandom online and off (reading and posting about the comic on social networking sites, chatting with other fans, going to in-person meetups outside of cons, etc.).
Pineapple Pocky>
I typically try my best to be the kind of person and fan that others can look towards as a role model. Maybe it's because I'm a bit older than the average HS fan, maybe I'm just that kind of person, but I try my best. I disagree with your point that cosplayers are typically taught by older cosplayers, though -- maybe it is different now that I'm no longer new to cosplay, but it seems like people simply mature and giure things out on their own, rather than having older and wiser people take them under their wing and teach them (indirectly through example or directly). There is a lot more information out there about con culture and how to behave at a con now than when I was starting out, though, but there's also a lot more young people out there just starting out in their cosplay and con lives. I may be misunderstanding, but you make it sound like a lot of younger fans end up learning directly from older fans who teach them the ways of the con, but I don't really see that happening much in any fandom. I do agree that it can be difficult to have a really distinct fandom culture within such a large and nebulous fandom, though.
(Also, these fans are people first and HS fans second, and are very likely part of other fandoms as well, so it seems less of an issue with young people not being "taught" because the fandom is so large and more just an issue of immaturity in general, at least to me. Some degree of misconduct is to be expected at a con, I think, just because cons are a safe space for people who can't otherwise express their love of something to be able to express that, and a lot of younger folks tend to be excitable from both not knowing yet how or when to control their excitement and simply having an overabundance of energy by virtue of being young. I'm fairly quiet and don't really engage in much, but even I was quite a bit more excitable at that age!)
For myself, as I said, I try to be the best person I can, and feel like I can be a decent role model for the fandom. Aside from general advice given every so often and specific advice when asked for it, however, I will not take on someone 10 years younger than myself (or more...) to teach them how to behave. That's on them. I'll go out of my way sometimes to give people help (writing tutorials, writing lengthy posts giving cosplay advice, I even went back to my hotel room to get some body paint to help someone who had cried off part of their paint because of allergies), but I don't want to feel like I'm babysitting younger cosplayers. I don't mean to say "figure it out yourselves!!" and leave people with no standards of conduct to look towards, but I don't really think it's my place to personally try to improve the image of the fandom, especially when I'm not really a big participant in the fandom to begin with. I don't try to lead by example because it isn't really something conscious, but if someone wanted to look towards me as an example, they probably could. (I actually had multiple people at the HS gathering this year say that I am "not only a good cosplayer, but a great human being," so that counts for something, I guess?)
I don't mean to talk about myself so much here, but since the suggestion you gave was to be a good role model, I'm speaking to that point from a personal perspective.
There does tend to be a lot of cliqueish behavior in the HS fandom, though. I agree with you there. The fandom is the most accepting I've ever been in when it comes to accepting people who are HS fans into a group (and it seems like HS fans can instantly make friends with other fans, which is part of why Dinnerstuck tends to go so smoothly!), but if someone is perceived as an outsider, in my experience, HS fans tend to shut people out. I don't think they are any more rude, as a group, than any other fandom, since a lot of fandoms (and young people within fandoms) can have a mentality where they are somehow special or superior for knowing about a thing/knowing more about a thing/etc. (see: the entire "fake geek girl" issue), but I think that because HS is something that is so long and so complicated and it takes even more of a special sort of knowledge than most other fandoms do, fans can be more likely to shut people out who haven't entirely proven their HS street cred. It could also just be that individual groups within the fandom can be cliqueish, since I've had both great and meh experiences getting accepted into HS groups when out of HS cosplay. Even if people aren't always 100% accepting, I've never witnessed a HS fan be rude to someone who isn't a fan simply for not being a fan, though I'm sure it has happened. And I'm sure it has happened just as many times in any other large fandom you can name. That's on the individuals, not the fandom as a whole, but people will project individual behaviors onto the group as a whole.
I also still think that I have a right to complain about the parts of the fandom that act in less-than-desirable ways, even if I'm not part of that group myself. ;] Yes, I can be looked to as a role model if people want, and no, I don't whine about how bad the fandom is or how it's gone downhill or anything (there's good and bad in any fandom, but the bad tends to be more visible and what people focus on) but I tend to see more good in the fandom than bad -- I really only talk about the fandom in posts like this, and maybe the occasional other post, but still have the right to talk about the fandom at my own discretion.
(One last comment about your first point -- there may not be a difference in terms of the convention itself, but there can be a huge difference culturally, within the convention, depending on cosplay source, cosplay skill level, being a photographer, a gamer, etc., and people will treat you differently as such, as long as those parts of you are visible.)
Erik>
I think that the idea of HS fans volunteering their time to help the convention and help others is a great idea. :] I think that if Homestucks are really that bothered by the reputation of their fandom, then they need to step up and do something to combat it. I don't think that having an entirely HS event would be feasible or sustainable, since the fandom is slowly fizzling out (and will probably fizzle out even further once the comic is finished), and there tend to be off-con meetups for HS fans with some degree of regularity (I don't know how often since I don't attend or pay attention to these).
I like to host Dinnerstuck events at cons, which is where HS fans go out to dinner together, thus creating a safe and contained space for those who would like to socialize with other fans. I think that maybe more events like this at cons, aside from the scheduled gathering, would probably be a good thing for the fandom as a whole.
A lot of the younger fans tend to have school until Friday of the con and can't really take the days off of school (so close to finals!) to volunteer (I know I couldn't, even up through my undergrad work, since that was actually finals week for me), so Thursday volunteering might not be the easiest thing to pull off, but I'd love to see it happen. :] Is there anything I can do to help organize other HS events at cons so that people can put in volunteer hours or find a safe space for their fandom? I'm open to suggestions.
@ninja
Numbers in general were down. 2 things factor into this as the homestuck gathering.
1. Linecon of 2013. need I say more?
2. Tumblr did a hate campaign on the original runners of the gathering, and that drove some away as well. idk why they did this, as it should be minor, but nope, the community drove her away, and that kinda urked me. the gathering was fine. why did you need to burst the person running that ship perfectly i have no idea.
I know next to nothing about Homestuck to be honest. Never got into it and most likely never will. Not for a lack of trying, I might add.
But, I thought I'd interject my opinion. But first, I wanted to address something.
Quote from: tjimmy2 on June 03, 2014, 09:35:37 AM
Tumblr did a hate campaign on the original runners of the gathering, and that drove some away as well. idk why they did this, as it should be minor, but nope, the community drove her away, and that kinda urked me. the gathering was fine. why did you need to burst the person running that ship perfectly i have no idea.
If you are talking about the person I think you're talking about,
she was accused of sexually assaulting numerous minors under the age of eighteen. Multiple accounts backed these accusations up, and it wasn't for something 'minor'. She sexually assaulted and harassed numerous people under the age of eighteen and a few over the age of eighteen. There is nothing 'minor' about that.
Moving on....
I think Homestuck gets a lot of hate because of the crowd. Homestuck cosplay is messy, the body paint gets every where, and it's a pain to deal with.
Not to mention that there are a lot of fans of homestuck, which is great, but when you get a huge group of fans together, you get mob mentality, and lets face it, that can be pretty bad. What I think makes it worse is that a lot of homestuck fans are hormonal teenagers, and when hormonal teenagers and obsessive fans band together, you get the wedding incident of "otp! otp!" Seriously not cool.
The reason everyone rallies against homestuck is because homestuck seems to have taken over fanimecon. Fanime con's panels last year were mostly homestuck, which quite frankly, sucked. Fanimecon 2013 was basically homestuck. It didn't help that all those gray body paint with horns masses flooded the convention center. What made it worse was that, quite a few of the homestuck fans, as in, a good portion of the number I happened to talk to/over hear were nasty trolls. They said a lot of mean things and generally weren't nice people, or perhaps, petty teenagers. Either way, the fandom is the reason homestuck gets so much hate. I mean, I go to fanime to enjoy anime, and parts of the anime world that pull japan in, like the lolita, maid cafe, etc. I don't go to fanime to see a bunch of nasty people in gray paint and horns overrun a convention and like juveniles surround a wedding couple and scream 'otp!' at the top of their lungs, terrifying the couple on what should have been a happy day.
I think the reason the Doctor Who, MLP, SPN, and other non-homestuck fandoms don't get hate when they show up at fanime is because of how they act as a fandom. Homestuck is notorious for being filled with people who, quite frankly, are just not nice, whereas, maybe because the fandoms are older/more mature, DW, MLP, SPN, etc. are known to be nicer, and maybe a little more mature.
This is all my own theory, and thoughts on this. Not say it's right or wrong, but this is just my opinion and some things I've noticed.
Quote from: Erik_anderson on June 02, 2014, 01:37:10 PM(since many are young and the one thing they have in abundance is time)
Not sure where you got this from. Young people ages 15-25 are usually bogged down with school, homework, and extracurricular activities. I haven't had free time since 2008.
Quote from: Erik_anderson on June 02, 2014, 01:37:10 PMI can tell you that one thing we need is volunteers on thursday, If the Homestuck community stepped up and volunteered hours to the convention on thursday and even hosted some events like a rave, helped the swap meet or something you came up with, it would make a huge difference in the perception of the group.
If your community owns making Thursday rock for fanime, I am certain you will be seen in another (brighter) light.
1. There is already a Dance, no need for a rave.
2. I don't remember if they did it this year, but I know last year the HS community hosted a "Can Town Drive" and encouraged people to donate. Also, there have been several Homestuck panels. How much more involved do you want them?
3. What makes you think Homestuck fans don't volunteer/staff? They're just usually not in cosplay when they do, since most of these cosplays take a crapton of prep.
Quote from: tjimmy2 on June 03, 2014, 09:35:37 AM2. Tumblr did a hate campaign on the original runners of the gathering, and that drove some away as well. idk why they did this, as it should be minor, but nope, the community drove her away, and that kinda urked me. the gathering was fine. why did you need to burst the person running that ship perfectly i have no idea.
She was accused of sexual assault. That's not exactly minor.
Quote from: Nina Star 9 on June 02, 2014, 02:51:18 PMI think that except at places where Homestucks officially gather (the gathering, Dinnerstuck, etc.), a lot of members of the fandom have moved on to other things, so a lot of the newer fans, younger fans, more obsessive fans, etc. have stayed behind and stayed visible. I know that a lot of HS cosplayers have moved on to other series (as I likely will once the comic ends), and spend the majority of their con in cosplays from those other series rather than in HS cosplay. Even if these people are still fans and part of the fandom otherwise, they are no longer visible as HS fans, leaving the most visible segment of the fandom as the younger and more obsessive fans.
There has also been a lot less push from within the fandom recently to improve the image of the fandom, which is unfortunate, and possibly has contributed to the perception of the fandom this year. I've also seen fewer complaints about the fandom, so it may just be slipping off everyone's radars.
I agree. I'd say the visible part of the fandom is only like, 15% of the whole, and that 15% mostly has newer and more obsessive fans. And within their group, they think shouting "OTP!!" is funny because Nepeta. But they might not have enough experience to understand that persons outside of fandom might not appreciate such a joke. Honestly, I think it's just a case of a small group of fans making the rest look bad, and we older, more experienced fans need to teach them how to have fun and make jokes respectfully.
If the wedding group was the same one my brother-in-law and I ran into on the elevator in the Fairmont, on the plus side, the bride at least seemed to be pretty chill about all the Fanime weirdness going on, and so hopefully was not too bothered by the "OTP!" thing. Doesn't excuse such hideously rude behavior, but at least hopefully it didn't put a damper on the bride and groom's big day.
It did seem like the sheer volume of Homestuck cosplay was down from last year, and I personally didn't really encounter much of any of the really rude and obnoxious behavior that helped bring the hate in 2013. Though apparently there was still some. I think at least, like every other costume fad, it's beginning to pass. And I guess with the source material on hiatus/slated to conclude in the not-too-distant future, the fandom will start to settle down once all the casual fans drift off and the remaining less-casual fans also start devoting more energy to other interests.
I only heard of the tumblr hatetrain. I am going to fact check the sexual assault claims. If they havent taken to court or filed police reports, I just can't believe the claims. I want my proof to be more sturdy than words that fall flat. until then, I'll work with you. bare with me until i find evidence.
I'm kind of an ex-Homestuck (just due to disinterest in the material, nothing dramatic), and I helped the group that stepped up to run the gathering in place of Jaidin, and I have to say everyone was really well-behaved and it ran so much more smoothly than I ever could've dreamed or expected! (pat yourself on the back you did good)
I did hear that Psycho Donuts banned(?) Homestuck cosplayers and I don't know the reasoning behind it but :/
Quote from: tjimmy2 on June 04, 2014, 12:01:17 PM
I only heard of the tumblr hatetrain. I am going to fact check the sexual assault claims. If they havent taken to court or filed police reports, I just can't believe the claims. I want my proof to be more sturdy than words that fall flat. until then, I'll work with you. bare with me until i find evidence.
I'm generally skeptical of things due to the nature of information on the internet, but based on a trusted close friend's words (as well as my own experience with Jaidin's personality), I don't find the sexual assault claims hard to believe.
Just based on my own experience, she's been aggressively flirty with me - and while it never culminated into anything physical, it's definitely in line with the behavior of rapists.
I also heard that someone filed a restraining order on her so that may be out there, but that's just word of mouth so I can't verify its validity.
Regarding the Psycho Donuts incident, apparently a group of 30-40 young Homestuck cosplayers went into Psycho Donuts and stole bottles of Faygo. These people are sadly a large majority of the fandom and are a big reason Homestucks get a bad name. Psycho Donuts is a place that we love to visit during meetups and my friends and I were extremely pissed that a bunch of morons ruined it for us. Since we felt bad, we decided to make an apology note and we collected about $15 to pay for the stolen goods. We weren't sure how much was stolen, but we hope it was enough to cover some of the cost. When we tried to give it to the cashier nurse, she was confused and tried to take the money back (I guess she wasn't working the same shift). However, she was very thankful to us and said she would post the note in the office.
Did they really ban us from going inside the store? When we gave them the note, two of my friends were dressed as trolls and they weren't asked to leave. I haven't seen any sort of official notice from Psycho Donuts either.
:CC That's really rude!! Wow...
Thanks for sharing, it's nice to know the situation and I'm glad that y'all stepped up to alleviate the problem.
I don't know if anyone is officially banned but I did have someone come up to me + the gathering organizer and demand we announce that "Psycho Donuts hates Homestucks" with no explanation of why (we refused because it's not really our place to say that), and also I've seen a couple downtown meetups that have explicitly said to not go there because of the reputation issues.
I think there are an unusually high proportion of younger cosplayers in the Homestuck fandom, and while that's not a problem on its own, it does become an issue when you're talking about large groups of people who are not accustomed to unwritten rules regarding courtesy and the like.
I don't know, I don't want to get into this too much and sound like I'm being all "RAARR RARRR HULK SMASH YOUNG PEOPLE" but I do kind of wish there was a way to sit everyone down and lay down some ground rules or something? idk
Oh, wow, I hadn't heard the Psycho Donuts story. That's really too bad that people would be that big of a-holes to a local business like that! :[ Thanks for clearing that up, and thanks for trying to rectify the situation the best you could.
Quote from: Firefury Amahira on June 03, 2014, 11:24:00 PM
If the wedding group was the same one my brother-in-law and I ran into on the elevator in the Fairmont, on the plus side, the bride at least seemed to be pretty chill about all the Fanime weirdness going on, and so hopefully was not too bothered by the "OTP!" thing. Doesn't excuse such hideously rude behavior, but at least hopefully it didn't put a damper on the bride and groom's big day.
I'm glad that they seemed pretty chill about it, if those were the same people. They didn't look terribly upset when I briefly saw them, but as I said, I was only sort of in the area and not really where it was happening, so I don't really know.
Quote from: keitoghostie on June 08, 2014, 08:36:34 PM
I think there are an unusually high proportion of younger cosplayers in the Homestuck fandom, and while that's not a problem on its own, it does become an issue when you're talking about large groups of people who are not accustomed to unwritten rules regarding courtesy and the like.
I don't know, I don't want to get into this too much and sound like I'm being all "RAARR RARRR HULK SMASH YOUNG PEOPLE" but I do kind of wish there was a way to sit everyone down and lay down some ground rules or something? idk
I also hope I don't sound like I'm hating too much on young people (get off my lawn!! >:[), but I agree that large groups of youth together can be an issue, since mob mentality starts to take over, and everyone's excited anyway because it's a con (and thus a safe[ish] space to work out a lot of that pent-up energy and fandom obsession that they wouldn't have a chance to in daily life), and everyone's full of energy and inside jokes and there's other fans around...and misbehavior happens.
I also wish there was a way to lay down ground rules. I saw a lot of online posts telling people to be on their best behavior before and after last year, but I haven't really seen anything like that recently. It really doesn't do terribly much to have posts about con behavior that already exist, as they would need to be circulated around to remind people. (Plus, the people who would do research on how to behave at a con probably wouldn't be the types to act poorly in the first place.) I can post a few things on tumblr to remind people about how to act at cons, but I'm not sure if that would really help when it comes to things like people stealing from local businesses. I'm also not an expert in getting youth to behave properly (and I didn't really get along with people that age even when I was that age), so I don't really know how to fix this kind of problem. I would say "fundamental shift in the fandom's culture," but I still don't really think that this type of behavior is specific to the Homestuck fandom as much as to young fans generally. (That still won't really prevent things like theft :[ I'm just really baffled and upset by that story. There's no excuse for that kind of action. I don't care that people have a weird obsession with Faygo because of Gamzee, that's not what causes or drives things like theft.)
I really do think that youth not knowing the unspoken rules about behavior is one of the major issues, though, and that a lot of "dregs" of the fandom are left behind by those who have moved on to other things. I think that massive internal teaching campaigns from within the fandom and people getting called out on their behavior in-person would probably help some, but this kind of thing is probably going to happen no matter how much people try to prevent it. (I also don't think that other fandoms of comparable size and composition are really any better or worse, it's just that HS is more visible...and more body painted) This would be for the more general childish behavior, not the really major stuff like theft.
I'm still really frustrated by the Psycho Donuts story, though. :[ If that's true, then I don't even know. It's not like all Homestucks are like that, that's only a tiny minority, and could be someone from any fandom, but just knowing that anyone, of any fandom, would commit a crime in the name of fandom is just unfathomable to me. (A group of 30-40 Homestucks??!! That's just crazy. :[ Still confused and frustrated by that story, sorry~)
It seems like overall this year, though, there are fewer complaints of bad behavior (at least from outside of the fandom), but more serious complaints of bad behavior (the Psycho Donuts thing, the wedding thing) that seem to be coming from within the fandom.
Quote from: Nina Star 9 on June 09, 2014, 10:02:25 AM
One. I also wish there was a way to lay down ground rules.
Two I can post a few things on tumblr to remind people about how to act at cons, but I'm not sure if that would really help when it comes to things like people stealing from local businesses.
Three I think that massive internal teaching campaigns from within the fandom and people getting called out on their behavior in-person would probably help some, but this kind of thing is probably going to happen no matter how much people try to prevent it.
Four (I also don't think that other fandoms of comparable size and composition are really any better or worse, it's just that HS is more visible...and more body painted) This would be for the more general childish behavior, not the really major stuff like theft.
Five It's not like all Homestucks are like that.
I just highlighted some of the points I wanted to address.
One. ---- Well, maybe before each fanime, in the homestuck gathering thread, some rules of conduct by the one hosting the meet up should be posted. Something as a 'friendly' reminder. Maybe it's also time to talk to fanime about addressing this issue on their website itself and in the forums. The hosts of the gathering should also kindly remind everyone at the gathering too. Be like "Hey guys, as a fandom, we know Homestuck's got a really bad rep. So, this year, let's try and set a good example so that next year, when we come back, businesses won't be as wary of us." Or something like that. That would be a poor way to word it, but, you get the general idea.
Two. ---- I would post a general 'code of conduct' on tumblr for conventions in general, and when fanime 2015 comes closer, tag fanime 2015 and homestuck. Make it a point to reference fanime 2015 and homestuck in general.
Three. ---- Exactly. But, even if it still happens, at least it'd be a minority instead of a majority. Having massive internal campaigns would help a lot. I think maybe at the next fanime, if homestuck even wants to have a meet up at a business place, make sure you have the head of the gathering/meet up/whatever, pass around a collection jar for people to put money into and at the end of the meet up, present it to the business place as a 'thank you' for letting the group use the place as their meet up point and as a way for the business to somehow recoup some of their losses incase something gets stolen/the faygo sort of incident happens again. That way your bases are covered, and you can at least show that you're trying to be sincere and responsible for the group.
Four. ---- I dunno about that. I'm in a lot of other fandoms/seen a lot of other meetups, and I'm pretty sure that Homestuck is by far the worst. Not saying a fandom is better, but I've never heard any other fandom do what Homestuck has done. Yeah there may be some psychos or nut jobs in other fandoms, but in comparison to homestuck, it's like comparing an orange and an apple. Maybe it's because, like you said, the homestuck is basically running on the young crowd and the dregs/bad apples of the fandom that homestuck has such a bad rep, but I've never heard another fandom have the same kind of issues at fanime as Homestuck has had and I've snooped around extensively.
Five. ---- No, but enough homestucks are like that, that the fact that someone has to say "Not all homestucks are like that." as a defense just makes me feel like saying "Yeah, all homestucks ARE LIKE THAT." Idk, to me, that kind of a defense is like try to put out a camp fire with a pea shooter water gun...not very effective. I think instead, it probably would have been better to maybe say "I know Homestuck has a bad rep, and even though it's got a bad reputation, the older fans, the ones who have either just gotten into the fandom, or have been in the fandom a long time, have disassociated from really interacting with the fandom in an effort to curb their association with the overall negative image of the fandom." Or something like that. I think what Homestuck seriously needs to do as a fandom, all over the world, is revamp their image. I know in the past that Homestuck had a can drive or something. But maybe there could be a charity party called "Homestuck for the Holidays" around christmas time that collects donations for a children's charity or something, and maybe see if it can happen all across the U.S. or something of the sort as a way to offer a better image for homestuck, or at least detract from the negativity the fandom seems to incur.
Over all though, I just think that Homestuck will get a better reputation after the series ends and a couple years go by. Until then, if I were in the fandom, I'd probably disassociate from the fandom entirely and only stick around to read fanfiction/admire fan art, or talk with a fellow Homestuck enthusiast who you know is closer to your age, and overall, just avoid the Homestuck fandom's majority. But that's just me.
Wow, ended up writing more than I had intended, but this is just my take on everything.
Hi All!
I am so happy I found this. I am the bride that you had mentioned when my bridal party crashed your gathering (May 25, 2014) :) I actually had to ask my photographer if he was willing to crash your event so I could get pictures with you all.
I just wanted to say that I had an absolute blast with all of you that gathered around myself and my bridal party and chanted OTP during some of our pictures. We had no idea what it meant, so we quickly pulled out our phones to google on the way back to the hotel and we loved it. Some of our bridal party kept chanting OTP during the rest of the wedding. Now, I admit we still don't have a great grasp on what it means, but it was special to us.
Everyone who gathered around us during our pictures was awesome! My husband and I kept commenting on how great everyone was. People would come up to me and sincerely complement me, which was really awesome.
I admit, when my planner had told me that I scheduled my wedding during Fanime I was a bit scared. My older relatives thought it was a porn convention! But, as the day went on, we had so many of my family/wedding guests saying how much they loved seeing everyone's costumes and such.
I have a ton of really, really awesome pictures thanks to some of you! If I could figure out how to post them on here, I would!
Again, thank you to everyone. It was such a great memory for my husband and I.
Quote from: keitoghostie on June 04, 2014, 12:23:26 PM
I did hear that Psycho Donuts banned(?) Homestuck cosplayers and I don't know the reasoning behind it but :/
Quote from: keitoghostie
I don't know if anyone is officially banned but I did have someone come up to me + the gathering organizer and demand we announce that "Psycho Donuts hates Homestucks" with no explanation of why (we refused because it's not really our place to say that), and also I've seen a couple downtown meetups that have explicitly said to not go there because of the reputation issues.
Quote from: MintyPockyRegarding the Psycho Donuts incident, apparently a group of 30-40 young Homestuck cosplayers went into Psycho Donuts and stole bottles of Faygo. These people are sadly a large majority of the fandom and are a big reason Homestucks get a bad name. Psycho Donuts is a place that we love to visit during meetups and my friends and I were extremely pissed that a bunch of morons ruined it for us. Since we felt bad, we decided to make an apology note and we collected about $15 to pay for the stolen goods. We weren't sure how much was stolen, but we hope it was enough to cover some of the cost. When we tried to give it to the cashier nurse, she was confused and tried to take the money back (I guess she wasn't working the same shift). However, she was very thankful to us and said she would post the note in the office.
Did they really ban us from going inside the store? When we gave them the note, two of my friends were dressed as trolls and they weren't asked to leave. I haven't seen any sort of official notice from Psycho Donuts either.
Hello! Friendly Neighborhood Psycho Donuts Employee here!
We have not banned our Homestuck friends from our stores. We have had issues with Homestucks in the past aside from the Faygo incident at Fanime this year - We've also had Homestuck cosplay groups show up during our Rocky Horror and The Room screenings, and while we're happy to let you sit in our lobby while you're waiting for your film, even if it's hours in advance, we do not like when body paint gets on our walls and movie theater seats so that we have to clean them (But we understand that the newer 'Stucks might not have learned the importance of sealing their bodypaint). We also don't like when we've had people dressed up and start making out/groping each in our store (but then, we really don't like anyone making out/groping in our store.) and we definitely don't like when people start throwing poppers on the floor in our store (which, unfortunately, Homestucks have been the only ones to do).
Given that our employees experience with Homestucks has been this, they can be a little weary, but we have by no means banned Homestucks. We're happy to have you in our stores as long as you act appropriately -- though we are fun and out-of-the-box, we are also a place of business.
And Minty - We still have that note in our office. We thought it was very nice of you guys to offer up and apology (and I even made a post about it on one of my tumblr accounts). We know that not all Homestucks are like that, we've just had the bad luck of dealing with those who, unfortunately, are. We refuse to let the minority spoil it for the majority.