I have read the various objections to having a "butler" type cafe as counterpart and I have to say that I think the reason why people are still bringing it up is because the objections aren't all that compelling.
I see people getting hung up on what a butler cafe is or isn't, but I don't see anyone demanding that such a venue stick to some rigid definition of what is done elsewhere. There is an obvious interest in having a place where nicely dressed bishounen-type male servers treat their clients in a fun/teasing manner. It seems like a missed opportunity.
Statements that such a venue would lack appeal to anyone but the female attendees make some major assumptions as well. First, there are many, many events at con that are geared towards the hetero-male attendees and no one ever worries about them appealing to females. Second, you are completely dismissing non-hetero male attendees or males who aren't all hung up on proving their masculinity and would go anyways to hang out with their friends who are checking it out. Third, lots of males would go just to see all the female attendees there, kinda like signing up for a class where you know most of the students will be women.
So, if you just aren't interested, think it's too much work etc. I get it. But the fact that it seems like the whole idea of anyone doing a butler-type cafe is being dismissed is I think why you are finding the issue repeating.
Quote from: zevBlue on January 23, 2010, 08:25:31 PM
I have read the various objections to having a "butler" type cafe as counterpart and I have to say that I think the reason why people are still bringing it up is because the objections aren't all that compelling.
I see people getting hung up on what a butler cafe is or isn't, but I don't see anyone demanding that such a venue stick to some rigid definition of what is done elsewhere. There is an obvious interest in having a place where nicely dressed bishounen-type male servers treat their clients in a fun/teasing manner. It seems like a missed opportunity.
Statements that such a venue would lack appeal to anyone but the female attendees make some major assumptions as well. First, there are many, many events at con that are geared towards the hetero-male attendees and no one ever worries about them appealing to females. Second, you are completely dismissing non-hetero male attendees or males who aren't all hung up on proving their masculinity and would go anyways to hang out with their friends who are checking it out. Third, lots of males would go just to see all the female attendees there, kinda like signing up for a class where you know most of the students will be women.
So, if you just aren't interested, think it's too much work etc. I get it. But the fact that it seems like the whole idea of anyone doing a butler-type cafe is being dismissed is I think why you are finding the issue repeating.
... But that's not what a butler is. You're basically saying, let's make a themed cafe with an archtype, and the archtype then acts absolutely nothing like his archtype!
In other words...
"HEY GUYS, LET'S HAVE A HORROR MOVIE MARATHON!" And then all you show are romance-comedies and dramas.
They're not compelling to you, because you simply don't want to accept it. And frankly, nothing will, because the "idea" of a butler cafe is appealing, not the actual butler cafe. Themed cafes are supposed to be that. Themed. If the theme is butlers, the butlers should act like butlers. You're simply stating. "Well why do they have to act like butlers?" Because that's the appeal.
It's the same as a maid cafe. The appeal isn't that, OMG there's a girl talking to me(or rather, it shouldn't be). It's the fact that she's acting like your personal maid. She greets you and talks to you, like you are her master. She interacts with you, like she is your maid. In such a way, a maid is allowed to act freely in general, but butlers are not.
Again, you're just telling us to have butlers not act like. Is this a missed opportunity? I could say that about millions of things. We should have go-go dancers and burlesque shows. THERE'S A HUGE MARKET FOR THAT... that's a missed opportunity too right? It doesn't apply, it's a bastardization of the actual culture, and is a mocking of what it's supposed to represent though.
If there was a REAL appeal for it at fanime, then I wouldn't mind discussions on the subject. If there was an actual understanding of the event, I wouldn't mind even helping out with whomever decides to run it, but there are way too many reasons as too why it shouldn't happen including that, we don't want to bastardize what a butler cafe is. Changing things on your own whims and calling it the traditional named isn't smiled upon.
We could avoid the debate on a Butler Cafe by simply having something borderline unacceptable, like a Chip 'n Dale Cafe! However, I think that'd be more of a Yaoi Con thing to do. :D
You could always just create something that doesn't exist. Such as a Man-Maid Cafe or maybe a Man-Servant Cafe. However, like Pyron was stating, I don't really see it being a huge draw. And mostly a male servant of just about any type is seen and seldom heard. You could break from this and have happy, fun, excited man servers, but what would you call it? It'd have to fit the theme or else it wouldn't be koshier.
Now, the current Maid Cafe could always opt for employing a couple attractive and socially experienced males (dressed up real classy or whatever would compliment the maids) for one year and see if it actually has any high demand. But, that would stray from their overall theme and possibly complicate things a bit more for them. It's ultimately up to those who run the cafe if they want to do this or not. If they refuse the idea then there is really nothing you can do about that, unless you want to do this yourself and attempt to pitch your idea to the Fanime heads.
But think about it a bit. The kitchen is already too busy when it comes to ordering food as it is (from what I heard.) And the current Maid Cafe takes up pretty much the only good spot for a cafe to be. There is no open space for a male type cafe that I am aware of. There are no assurances that the draw for this is large enough to constitute it being it's own function. There is no one to head it. There are no known staff prospects. And you'd also have to secure some funding from the Fanime heads for supplies for your staff. (Staff rooms, badges, food and water, decorations, etc.)
So, basically what Pyron and I are saying is:
1.) Find a theme and actually follow it. It should be connected to the personality type of the staff you are planning to employ.
2.) The name of the cafe should be associated with your theme.
3.) Find a way to prove there is an actual large draw for this type of venue. (Asking your friends doesn't count. A forum poll isn't large enough scale. Maybe a petition done while at Fanime? Maybe an accurate and honest poll of those waiting in the Maid Cafe lines everyday? Who knows.)
4.) Find someone willing to go through the drama of heading this type of venue. Has to be an adult. Has to be very responsible. Has to be capable of dealing with resturaunt management type scenarios and drama. It isn't all happy happy fun stuff like you might believe.
5.) The person willing to head this should write to the Con heads why they feel this is a good idea and explain in depth the four points listed above.
6.) If the Con heads decide to entertain your idea, you must then discuss a possible location for this cafe and if the SJCC kitchen could handle the extra load of food demands. (Honestly, I don't think there is a good venue for this unless you step on toes and intrude on the Maid Cafe's territory, but then again I'm no expert on Fanime's layout.)
7.) Find 10-20+ volunteers that fit the description of your theme that don't mind working long grueling hours in an uncomfortable outfit and won't bail on you mid shift. (This should include assistants to the lead, because the lead should not be expected to be there all day on every day.)
8.) If you've got this far, you've done well, but you should probably still consult Jun and/or Mikey for advice and assistance as needed.
So, long story short.....all you need to do is find a responsible adult who is interested in heading up this idea and complete the steps above. That's really the only thing stomping this idea into the ground right now.
I think the current Maid Cafe staff is content with the way things are. [In regards to butlers or male service staff]
Other venues such as AX and Yaoi con already have venues/events that include Butler-ish [male] type volunteers/staff.
I'm pretty sure that Fanime Maid Cafe on many many many occasion have put their opinion on the matter and to a certain degree it is a closed issue.
as Liquid has mentioned if you really want to start your own male version of the venue, they you better have the volunteers, experience, know-how, and commitment to follow thru. Best of luck with that, so please stop bringing it up in a topic/thread dedicated to ONLY Fanime Maid Cafe [as in female based service staff]
Thanks. :)
Thank you to the moderator for moving this to it's own thread.
We get "hung up on what a butler cafe is or isn't" because if we were to do one... we'd make it what it is. Your post basically tells me that we shouldn't care to do it accurately, and just have one just to have one. For what it accurately is, is reason enough for me to feel unconvinced that we should have one at all. I would very much prefer not to have one at all, than have one inaccurately.
Pyron and Liquid both already responded with great explanations as to why. While I do very much so listen to our fans and attendees' suggestions, this one has been brought up several times already with an answer, and it's so far been no. And they've been answered to have fulfilled all the reasons you have mentioned-- we're hung up on authenticity, it does lack appeal (in comparison), caters to a small and specific group, and it is too much work. And time. And money. And training.
And yes... it is a small group. Again, the maid cafe already openly caters to all sorts of fans of either gender. Just because a few guys wouldn't mind it, doesn't mean a butler cafe isn't specifically geared towards a small group. We find the issue repeating, because the few people brought up the issue, but just to add, even a few repeats can still be considered repetitive.
A themed cosplay cafe takes a lot of work to both manage and set up, and having a butler cafe would waste all those things. I can see that there's a small sum of people that do genuinely want a butler cafe to happen, but it's always based on the assumption of "maid cafes are for guys, butler cafes are for girls."
Maid cafes are for both genders, and general fans to enjoy. Butler cafes are generally for women only, and a small demographic of women that specifically enjoy that genre of anime-culture, which makes it a small percentage of all fans. The role of a butler in a butler cafe is very rigid and specific. They aren't to speak or express much outward emotion, must be extremely formal and polite, never overstep their boundaries with their customers, and most importantly, charming and charismatic. Finding volunteers to fulfill these roles (especially alongside the cafe's maid training as is) would be a lot of work, and difficult to reach a decent quota.
Maids, however, are more versatile, and we can have several types with personalities that fit different customers. They're also allowed to be engaging, entertaining, and more open with their customers. Many other things pertaining butler cafes clash and take away from the maid cafe setting we already have, which would take more time and money to fix and cater just for a small group, when we could be using that time to let the rest of the demographic enjoy the maid cafe as is.
If I'm presented with better reason, and/or a higher demand in the future, I may consider a solution or alternative, but for now, I am saying that it is absolutely confirmed that there will be no major event dedicated to a butler cafe.
There's a lot to respond to here so I'll try to condense it.
Authenticity - This one is a manner of preference. There are those who think con activities should directly reflect what happens in Japan. However, I don't see why the interaction can't have more fluidity as opposed to straight up imitation. They influence us and we influence them. I mean certainly you don't see a lot of Trekkie types in Japanese cons but I don't see anyone refusing them entry here. I understand that you feel it is important to recreate the experience of Japanese culture. To put it more bluntly, why is it not ok unless we are directly ripping off Japanese culture? This is probably a question better applied to con activities in general. I fail to see why you can't have something that that is Japanese-influenced. Why is that automatically "mocking" or a "bastardization"? Why can't that be a homage? A rigid imitation strikes me as uncomfortably close to fetishizing and actually creates distance with another culture as opposed to bridging it.
Appeal - This one strikes a cord because it seems to be a VERY gendered argument. Girls can enjoy cute girls but boys can't/won't enjoy cute boys. That's how it is and we don't care to (try to) change it, or that's how it is supposed to be for accuracy. Also as far as the actual number of women who like anime being small, well just a cursory glance around the con seems to contradict this. I suspect that like gaming, there is a certain stigma that makes them less likely to admit it in casual interaction but that is a another issue.
Frankly, I am not that invested in this specific issue. Given the specific framework you propose of staying in a theme some of the arguments make sense, but that's only if one accepts that framework. My comment was more a response to dismissive tone used and the unwillingness to think outside the box. Apparently this is de rigueur. I just think it is unfortunate that there isn't more flexibility as opposed to copying. That being said, I'm willing to let the issue rest because we are obviously coming from it from completely different viewpoints. Also, I brought it up in that thread only because the other one was locked.
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Quote from: zevBlue on February 01, 2010, 02:30:29 AM
There's a lot to respond to here so I'll try to condense it.
Authenticity - This one is a manner of preference. There are those who think con activities should directly reflect what happens in Japan. However, I don't see why the interaction can't have more fluidity as opposed to straight up imitation. They influence us and we influence them. I mean certainly you don't see a lot of Trekkie types in Japanese cons but I don't see anyone refusing them entry here. I understand that you feel it is important to recreate the experience of Japanese culture. To put it more bluntly, why is it not ok unless we are directly ripping off Japanese culture? This is probably a question better applied to con activities in general. I fail to see why you can't have something that that is Japanese-influenced. Why is that automatically "mocking" or a "bastardization"? Why can't that be a homage? A rigid imitation strikes me as uncomfortably close to fetishizing and actually creates distance with another culture as opposed to bridging it.
Because it's NOT a homage. You seem to not understand what the point of things like this are, and instead are saying "Well why can't we do it how *I* want (not how others want, but you specifically)." And simply put, I don't care.
You want a butler cafe, and are saying you don't want it to be like a butler cafe. Then, IT ALL BECAME CLEAR in this next part.
Quote
Appeal - This one strikes a cord because it seems to be a VERY gendered argument. Girls can enjoy cute girls but boys can't/won't enjoy cute boys. That's how it is and we don't care to (try to) change it, or that's how it is supposed to be for accuracy. Also as far as the actual number of women who like anime being small, well just a cursory glance around the con seems to contradict this. I suspect that like gaming, there is a certain stigma that makes them less likely to admit it in casual interaction but that is a another issue.
It all makes sense now. You don't even care about the theme. You don't care about the "Maid Cafe" nor a "Butler Cafe" but the gender issue. You seem to not understand the point or reasoning of a butler cafe nor a maid cafe. So, let's try to explain this... once more.
A maid cafe's appeal is not that it's a bunch of cute girls dressed up as maid realistically. But it's the appeal of the service. It's like having a personal maid. A maid that treats you like her master, and talks to you like her master. That will spend time talking to you about whatever, will play games with you, and serve you. This is something anyone can appreciate and enjoy.
The appeal of a butler cafe, is having a very stern man serve you. Being stern and proper. Never says anything out of turn, and only replied to things. The actual fitting appeal of this is that a lot of women fantasize about having a proper well spoken man that they can "turn" and control. This is a VERY sexual thing and it doesn't apply to men. It's not that there are few women, it's that there are few woman that are actually in this demographic.
QuoteFrankly, I am not that invested in this specific issue. Given the specific framework you propose of staying in a theme some of the arguments make sense, but that's only if one accepts that framework. My comment was more a response to dismissive tone used and the unwillingness to think outside the box. Apparently this is de rigueur. I just think it is unfortunate that there isn't more flexibility as opposed to copying. That being said, I'm willing to let the issue rest because we are obviously coming from it from completely different viewpoints. Also, I brought it up in that thread only because the other one was locked.
Flexibility is used, but it's not being flexible if you completely deviate from the base. We care about the actual base, not just having a few guys dress up, or girls dress up and not providing the point of what they're supposed to represent.
You're telling us how to run things? You think you're in any state to tell us that we should "be flexible" or "think outside the box" when you have no clue what the box even is? I appreciate people giving ideas, or asking questions, but what you're doing is hardly that. You're stating we're wrong, and that we don't know what we're doing. You're stating that you know better than us, and that your ideas are revolutionary and could make fanime so much better... When we've clearly heard all of this before, have been over it dozens of times before, and, actually thought about ways WE COULD make it work.
So then I invite you to run a butler cafe yourself at fanime. E-mail the chair and tell him your ideas and that you will be head of the department, and do it.
Oh no, I totally agree there should be some flexibility when hosting this sort of event. And there is. Fanimaid Cafe is of its own, and not a carbon copy of any other cafe, Japan or not. But in this case, I find that you just have some trouble understanding...
We have a maid cafe, and it's of our own, while fitting the definition of what makes a maid cafe. The only way where a butler cafe would work without taking anything away from the cafe we already have would be to change it outside of its already strict and rigid definition.
There are quite an abundance of assumptions when you post. It is a gendered argument, but not because we're discriminating against either of them. It's statistics, and fact. I am completely aware that there are guys who would also enjoy it, but I don't need to be sexist to say that it isn't usual. I can host a concert of an obscure Russian techno group in rural Mexico, despite there being a handful of fans, and still assume that the appeal isn't as big as a more appreciated musical group in that area... and not be racist.
And I NEVER said that there are more males than girls at conventions. In the US, this is obviously untrue. But I'll mention again, not only is the demographic for a butler cafe much much much more specific than one for a maid cafe, I honestly haven't gotten that many personal requests to have one past the few that have been posted on this board.
No matter what is said, the demographic is still significantly smaller... AND it's also less entertaining, especially if it only caters to the ones who enjoy it. Even if there are exceptions, in the general pov, you're excluding people with a butler cafe, whereas a maid cafe is for everyone. Don't assume that this is a casualty of "narrow-mindedness". What you're saying only addresses the tip of an iceberg.
I've mentioned already though, to better satisfy our attendees, we will think of some possibilities for future plans. Afterall, we and our maids do this out of pure fun and desire to make our cafe enjoyable. If I receive enough demand, I will bring it up during a meeting and see if anyone is supportive of this idea enough to invest the money into making it happen, otherwise, as we've all mentioned many many times before...
No.
I whole lot of words and intent have been put into my comments that isn't there. In the interest of avoiding any further misrepresentation I will repeat something from my initial post, with emphasis:
So, if you just aren't interested, think it's too much work etc. I get it. But the fact that it
seems like the whole idea of
anyone doing a butler-type cafe is being dismissed is I think why you are finding the issue repeating.
Quote
So then I invite you to run a butler cafe yourself at fanime. E-mail the chair and tell him your ideas and that you will be head of the department, and do it.
Which is really all that needed to be said, but without the additional denigrative comments and mansplaining.
Quote from: Jun-Watarase on February 01, 2010, 03:17:19 AM
We have a maid cafe, and it's of our own, while fitting the definition of what makes a maid cafe. The only way where a butler cafe would work without taking anything away from the cafe we already have would be to change it outside of its already strict and rigid definition.
Of course. It is your project. I never insisted that the two be integrated or even run by the same people, or even that it
has to happen. This would understandably divert your energy from what you enjoy.
QuoteAnd I NEVER said that there are more males than girls at conventions.
Noted, this was not an intentional misrepresentation but a mere misreading.
Quote
No matter what is said, the demographic is still significantly smaller... AND it's also less entertaining, especially if it only caters to the ones who enjoy it. Even if there are exceptions, in the general pov, you're excluding people with a butler cafe, whereas a maid cafe is for everyone. Don't assume that this is a casualty of "narrow-mindedness". What you're saying only addresses the tip of an iceberg.
If one accepts the condition that they must be authentic then yes. This is important to you, I can respect that.
Quote
I've mentioned already though, to better satisfy our attendees, we will think of some possibilities for future plans. Afterall, we and our maids do this out of pure fun and desire to make our cafe enjoyable. If I receive enough demand, I will bring it up during a meeting and see if anyone is supportive of this idea enough to invest the money into making it happen, otherwise, as we've all mentioned many many times before...
That is very fair. And heartening to see. Consider this one more voice in support.
Having a maid café or a butler café or mix of maid and butler is up to an IDEAL of the person who created it. Please respect that. If Fanime just wants a Maid Café, they want to focus on the maid and be the best of what they are doing. Everybody has an ideal and believes of how they want to run thing.
For example: I open a traditional Japanese Theme Restaurant. You won't go into my café and ask for a Hamburger or a Taco.
I would say Traditional Maid Café in Japan doesn't have Butler. So it is normal if Fanime Maid Café only wants to have maid. It is understandable.
I have to say that it is not because Fanime can't do a butler café. It is not what they are interested in.
So if people really want a butler café, create one. If you believe that it will have a lot of customers and become a booming business, then go to Fanime Con Chair and tell them your idea.
Have a business plan and do a presentation. Talking like this on forum between couple people won't do much help.
Put the plan in action if you want and think you can to do it.
Quote from: slimchance on February 11, 2010, 11:41:40 AM
Talking like this on forum between couple people won't do much help.
Ironically this how the Maid Cafe actually started. but to each is own.
That and of course going thru proper channels to get this "ideal" off the ground. :)
Quote from: Jerry on February 11, 2010, 11:56:58 AM
Ironically this how the Maid Cafe actually started. but to each is own.
That and of course going thru proper channels to get this "ideal" off the ground. :)
Yeah - my bad on that one.
I actually tried to get the Maid Cafe idea killed. ^^;
The discussion on the forums at the time was how it would be awesome to get cute girls to dress up in maid outfits and serve customers. Lots of talk about costumes and what dessert to serve, but no real clue about how to actually *run* the event. I got pretty annoyed. Thinking it would bring a reality check to the forums, I asked Craige/head of finance to check the thread and use his curmudgeon ways to bring the kids to their senses.
And then the guy goes and funds the project, getting it off to a start. ^^;
... but that's beside the point. There are two key pieces to the story:
1. It took someone with initiative, and it took someone from upper staff, to make it happen. It takes a leader to get these started, and then someone from Fanime to buy into the idea. Discussion can work - but only if it has direction.
2. The Maid Cafe as it was conceived is not how it is run today. It was fun but relatively purposeless, and it took Jun to form the philosophical backbone - the ideals - that it has today. I think it works well in the sense that Maid Cafe is run by people who know what it is, and what it isn't.
Quote from: Tony on February 11, 2010, 01:11:39 PM
Yeah - my bad on that one.
I actually tried to get the Maid Cafe idea killed. ^^;
The discussion on the forums at the time was how it would be awesome to get cute girls to dress up in maid outfits and serve customers. Lots of talk about costumes and what dessert to serve, but no real clue about how to actually *run* the event. I got pretty annoyed. Thinking it would bring a reality check to the forums, I asked Craige/head of finance to check the thread and use his curmudgeon ways to bring the kids to their senses.
And then the guy goes and funds the project, getting it off to a start. ^^;
... but that's beside the point. There are two key pieces to the story:
1. It took someone with initiative, and it took someone from upper staff, to make it happen. It takes a leader to get these started, and then someone from Fanime to buy into the idea. Discussion can work - but only if it has direction.
2. The Maid Cafe as it was conceived is not how it is run today. It was fun but relatively purposeless, and it took Jun to form the philosophical backbone - the ideals - that it has today. I think it works well in the sense that Maid Cafe is run by people who know what it is, and what it isn't.
Jun and I tried to get it killed as well, because we both knew how it would turn out.
And to say what Tony won't.
The maid cafe sucked when it started, and it wasn't until someone that knew what a MaidCafe was supposed to be like took over, did it finally become something good. Thanks for finally giving me a chance to say this.
The MaidCafe started with an idea and a want... and like Tony said the forums were mostly just throwing out random ideas they thought would be cute, but no one had any real clue what they were talking about. Someone took charge and decided to run the cafe, and it turned out horribly for 2 years. The general attendees that went had no idea why they had gone and most of them thought it was a waste of time and money, as reflected by how it was mostly empty on the 2nd year. The reason being is that, it wasn't accurate, it didn't portray the ideals of a maid cafe or have anything close to what it was supposed to represent. For the most part, it was just girls in maid uniforms serving food and that was the end of it.
This is the major reason I don't want to deviate from what a butler cafe is, because if you deviate from it, it's just... boring. The appeal that brings people to these places is gone, and your left with some cheap attempt at something just to have it. I know the con and the attendees weren't happy with the MaidCafe the first two years, and why bother just creating something to repeat that.
But to explain the culture side of this.
Butler cafes are not popular. They are very very small in Japan. There's verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry few of them that even exist and MOST of them are in Ikebukuro near and on Otome Road. Roughly if you were going to compare... there's probably like 1 butler cafe for every 25 maid cafes in Japan.
But for those that refuse to accept this... I'll be at the cafe, I'll be dressed nicely (not in a butler uniform) and you can say hi to me if I walk by. I may respond to you if I'm not busy, as I will be busy 99% of the time. That good enough?
Just to inform you, a Maid cafe isn't just targeted towards males. Females and kids go to maid cafes just for the fun of it.
Quote from: Touya no Miko on February 11, 2010, 09:19:32 PM
Just to inform you, a Maid cafe isn't just targeted towards males. Females and kids go to maid cafes just for the fun of it.
Who are you informing? I am relatively certain that the people that run it are very aware what a maid cafe is...
Quote from: Touya no Miko on February 11, 2010, 09:19:32 PM
Just to inform you, a Maid cafe isn't just targeted towards males. Females and kids go to maid cafes just for the fun of it.
Uhhhhhh, and who said that it was just targeted for males? I'm sure you can read a ton of the recent maid cafe threads and see that the staff even acknowledges that! Heck, where did we even explicitly say that? Nowhere. The Maid Cafe higher ups know this, they've been to maid cafes in Japan, so I have no idea why you feel the need to point it out.
Quote from: PyronIkari on February 11, 2010, 06:24:16 PM
But for those that refuse to accept this... I'll be at the cafe, I'll be dressed nicely (not in a butler uniform) and you can say hi to me if I walk by. I may respond to you if I'm not busy, as I will be busy 99% of the time. That good enough?
No. That is not good enough. I plan to attend Maid Cafe this year with some other staff members and I would like Mikey to serve my group. He needs to be courteous, kind, friendly, always smiling, and be willing to play games with the group. Since he is there to serve us, then he is not allowed to win at any of the games. If he believes that serving my group does not portray an authentic "Maid Cafe" then I will allow him time to change into uniform and wear a wig. Pictures will be taken. They will be posted on the internet.
Quote from: Mizuki on February 11, 2010, 10:48:45 PM
Quote from: Touya no Miko on February 11, 2010, 09:19:32 PM
Just to inform you, a Maid cafe isn't just targeted towards males. Females and kids go to maid cafes just for the fun of it.
Uhhhhhh, and who said that it was just targeted for males? I'm sure you can read a ton of the recent maid cafe threads and see that the staff even acknowledges that! Heck, where did we even explicitly say that? Nowhere. The Maid Cafe higher ups know this, they've been to maid cafes in Japan, so I have no idea why you feel the need to point it out.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, I had no intention of offending anyone. I am not pointing this out to the whole thread, just the OP who seems to get the concept that a Maid cafe is a male central fantasy theme. I guess I'm just a little too late to explain, or should have used quotes to comment the message clearer. Again, my apologies if that sounded like a snooty remark to the staff, it was aimed towards the OP.
Quote from: Touya no Miko on February 18, 2010, 11:28:23 PM
Quote from: Mizuki on February 11, 2010, 10:48:45 PM
Quote from: Touya no Miko on February 11, 2010, 09:19:32 PM
Just to inform you, a Maid cafe isn't just targeted towards males. Females and kids go to maid cafes just for the fun of it.
Uhhhhhh, and who said that it was just targeted for males? I'm sure you can read a ton of the recent maid cafe threads and see that the staff even acknowledges that! Heck, where did we even explicitly say that? Nowhere. The Maid Cafe higher ups know this, they've been to maid cafes in Japan, so I have no idea why you feel the need to point it out.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, I had no intention of offending anyone. I am not pointing this out to the whole thread, just the OP who seems to get the concept that a Maid cafe is a male central fantasy theme. I guess I'm just a little too late to explain, or should have used quotes to comment the message clearer. Again, my apologies if that sounded like a snooty remark to the staff, it was aimed towards the OP.
Earlier in the thread, staff has stated on several occasions that a reason why a maid cafe is more suitable for FanimeCon is
because it's more suitable for everyone, male or female. It was brought up to point out that the demographic for a butler cafe is far more limited to aiming at female fans that are interested in that genre, whether or not guys also attend.
Our entire point in responding to this thread was pretty much about how maid cafes are directed towards everyone. I disagreed that the counterparts are as simple as "maid cafe = for guys, butler cafe = for girls" because that's totally not how it works. It generally is towards the male demographic, but it welcomes girls equally.
Please have more faith in our staff in being very very knowledgeable on the subject.
with skimming through this thread I have only one question to ask. well kinda throwing it out there, will it ever come to a time where there be a maid cafe that have both maids and butler types serving? yes I do understand the reason for the maids other then the general male demographic as it targets everyone to have fun, and I see that. Its just more of, can guys have fun too wanting to do the same thing? I mean I am a guy and I would like to do sort of the same thing, without changing my entire sex to do so lol. Just you know, guys like to have fun doing the same thing as girls do sometimes.
EDIT: well not to get yelled at by some staffers here, I just let this be. Though would love to take up on the offer of suggesting and running the idea one of the staffers have said, just to kinda see what happens. But like me and other fans we don't know the first thing about setting up a butler type of cafe. But I have a feeling if it ever was made into a real deal that it would be fine. I mean honestly fanime is about fun, and i am sure there be something to be earned back from all the money invested in such a thing but I would like to someday see this happen. If not, then I do it >D. maybe not now but sometime in the future where fun is the law of the land and haters can walk away quietly.
Quote from: clawmaster on April 12, 2010, 06:07:35 PM
with skimming through this thread I have only one question to ask. well kinda throwing it out there, will it ever come to a time where there be a maid cafe that have both maids and butler types serving? yes I do understand the reason for the maids other then the general male demographic as it targets everyone to have fun, and I see that. Its just more of, can guys have fun too wanting to do the same thing? I mean I am a guy and I would like to do sort of the same thing, without changing my entire sex to do so lol. Just you know, guys like to have fun doing the same thing as girls do sometimes.
EDIT: well not to get yelled at by some staffers here, I just let this be. Though would love to take up on the offer of suggesting and running the idea one of the staffers have said, just to kinda see what happens. But like me and other fans we don't know the first thing about setting up a butler type of cafe. But I have a feeling if it ever was made into a real deal that it would be fine. I mean honestly fanime is about fun, and i am sure there be something to be earned back from all the money invested in such a thing but I would like to someday see this happen. If not, then I do it >D. maybe not now but sometime in the future where fun is the law of the land and haters can walk away quietly.
Didn't I say to READ the thread and not SKIM THROUGH the thread. Seriously... I mean seriously. It more than annoys me when people jump in to this and give their opinion and say they want something... but really have no clue what they're asking for. It annoys me even more when what they ask has already been addressed and reasons have been more than given to explain why not.
BUT TO REITERATE FOR THE SOME ODD 8th TIME.
Butlers are not the same as maids. They are not for both sexes. Cafes like this are very role oriented. Maids are maids... butlers are butlers. How volunteers act(or those that do this as an actual job) are there to fit a role. Although there are different "kinds" of "butler cafes" all of them share a very very very common theme in how the butlers are supposed to act and interact with customers.
Before you open up and suggest something again, have a clue what you're talking about. Research butler cafes, and research how and why they exist. Despite us already mentioning this time and time and time and time again, people seem to not want to bother even reading the threads they're posting in, let alone actual research into what they're suggesting.
I'm not trying to shut people up, and I'm very open to listening to what people have to say, but this is just ridiculous. We're just getting the same idea repeated over and over again with no real thought or reasoning as to why, and no real clue as to how or what.
Butler cafes are only for a very limited demographic.
I'm sure this idea can go through as long as it has a proper blueprint in a way.
There is one popular butler cafe in Ikebukuro where I originally came from on Otome Road.
It is named the Swallowtail.
QuoteAll of the butlers received at least one month of professional training on their manners; ways of speaking and different types of English tea. Hence they all speak very polite Japanese. As you enter the cafe, you would be greeted with 「お帰りなさいませ、お嬢様」 (Welcome back, my lady), as if you are their important 'Oujo-sama' back home after a long day. They would take your belongings and let you rearrange yourself in front of a large mirror before taking you to the dinning area.
Of course it is excessive to create this type of setting at Fanime, and it is possible with of course, income. This idea isn't horrible, but these ideas are to be taken seriously if the person is willing to go through such lengths with it.
If it were to be taken seriously, I'm sure it will appeal, it is true it might not receive as much variety of customers in genders such as the maid cafe, but that is why this is still an idea. Possibly, maybe there are some males who want to be treated as a young master by a butler. We wouldn't know since the community in the forum is small, but larger in the convention. This can be the 黒執事 influence.
Here is a video of Swallowtail:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0Oot6HUGiY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0Oot6HUGiY)
Quote from: LOVE.SAE on April 12, 2010, 10:11:21 PM
I'm sure this idea can go through as long as it has a proper blueprint in a way.
There is one popular butler cafe in Ikebukuro where I originally came from on Otome Road.
It is named the Swallowtail.
QuoteAll of the butlers received at least one month of professional training on their manners; ways of speaking and different types of English tea. Hence they all speak very polite Japanese. As you enter the cafe, you would be greeted with 「お帰りなさいませ、お嬢様」 (Welcome back, my lady), as if you are their important 'Oujo-sama' back home after a long day. They would take your belongings and let you rearrange yourself in front of a large mirror before taking you to the dinning area.
Of course it is excessive to create this type of setting at Fanime, and it is possible with of course, income. This idea isn't horrible, but these ideas are to be taken seriously if the person is willing to go through such lengths with it.
If it were to be taken seriously, I'm sure it will appeal, it is true it might not receive as much variety of customers in genders such as the maid cafe, but that is why this is still an idea. Possibly, maybe there are some males who want to be treated as a young master by a butler. We wouldn't know since the community in the forum is small, but larger in the convention. This can be the 黒執事 influence.
Here is a video of Swallowtail:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0Oot6HUGiY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0Oot6HUGiY)
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Seriously... seriously seriously seriously seriously seriously seriously seriously.
Are you joking? Yes, some guys wouldn't mind going to a butler cafe... that's a given, but your average female wouldn't. Your average male even less. You're saying let's invest thousands and thousands of dollars in something that, some girls would be interested and maybe like... 10 guys would be interested in going to.
There are so few butler cafes in general. Almost all of the butler cafes in Japan are in Ikebukuro... For every 50 maid cafes in Japan, there is like 1 butler cafe. Seriously, they are a VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY small genre as their appeal is EXTREMELY SMALL. You people keep making your claims as if it could be a good idea, and you don't have a clue what you're talking about. As I said...
It's unrealistic because the appeal is to such a small audience. There's little interaction, and it's more of a fujyoshi appeal of being served by a stern masculine butler.
Oh, here's the funny thing about butler cafes in Japan too. A good amount of them are female run. Meaning... the butlers are girls dressed up as butlers. But, surely those of you asking for one knew this already.
Quote from: PyronIkari on April 12, 2010, 10:32:48 PM
Quote from: LOVE.SAE on April 12, 2010, 10:11:21 PM
I'm sure this idea can go through as long as it has a proper blueprint in a way.
There is one popular butler cafe in Ikebukuro where I originally came from on Otome Road.
It is named the Swallowtail.
QuoteAll of the butlers received at least one month of professional training on their manners; ways of speaking and different types of English tea. Hence they all speak very polite Japanese. As you enter the cafe, you would be greeted with 「お帰りなさいませ、お嬢様」 (Welcome back, my lady), as if you are their important 'Oujo-sama' back home after a long day. They would take your belongings and let you rearrange yourself in front of a large mirror before taking you to the dinning area.
Of course it is excessive to create this type of setting at Fanime, and it is possible with of course, income. This idea isn't horrible, but these ideas are to be taken seriously if the person is willing to go through such lengths with it.
If it were to be taken seriously, I'm sure it will appeal, it is true it might not receive as much variety of customers in genders such as the maid cafe, but that is why this is still an idea. Possibly, maybe there are some males who want to be treated as a young master by a butler. We wouldn't know since the community in the forum is small, but larger in the convention. This can be the 黒執事 influence.
Here is a video of Swallowtail:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0Oot6HUGiY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0Oot6HUGiY)
fiuwahfaiwluhfp;awirjhp0aq9lujprtoawtujp;oawt
Seriously... seriously seriously seriously seriously seriously seriously seriously.
Are you joking? Yes, some guys wouldn't mind going to a butler cafe... that's a given, but your average female wouldn't. Your average male even less. You're saying let's invest thousands and thousands of dollars in something that, some girls would be interested and maybe like... 10 guys would be interested in going to.
There are so few butler cafes in general. Almost all of the butler cafes in Japan are in Ikebukuro... For every 50 maid cafes in Japan, there is like 1 butler cafe. Seriously, they are a VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY small genre as their appeal is EXTREMELY SMALL. You people keep making your claims as if it could be a good idea, and you don't have a clue what you're talking about. As I said...
It's unrealistic because the appeal is to such a small audience. There's little interaction, and it's more of a fujyoshi appeal of being served by a stern masculine butler.
Oh, here's the funny thing about butler cafes in Japan too. A good amount of them are female run. Meaning... the butlers are girls dressed up as butlers. But, surely those of you asking for one knew this already.
I am not saying we should do this idea, I was just placing my opinion in this if the person who came up with this idea, it will not be successful unless taken serious. And also, like I said, there is such a small community on this forum, and a larger community at the convention so we would not know what the attendees would prefer.
Yes there are small amount of butler cafes, and the demand is small. I do believe I know what I am talking about... I did not place any opinion if this is a good or bad idea, it's an idea that must be taken seriously if you want it. Which that person much know what they are doing.
And yes, some are even based on the Takarazuka Revue too, but these each have certain appeal.
hey guys, if you are interested, put together a proposal and contact the appropriate people or even me...but until then, less talk more do. thread locked.