Seriously I have dealt with the same abysmal communication from fanime for the past few years and it seems each year it only GETS WORSE! And without any objections or input from the staff that even operate the forums, I feel that they really don't care about the attendee's feedback at all. I don't even know WHAT fanime has improved during 2015 in my POV, other then slightly better guests and slightly better panels. And ever since being a forum member I have stated excessive amount of times the reason I go to Fanime was originally for the guests and panels. And I will also state the reason why I still go is because what else is there to do during the memorial weekend? Trust me if there was a convention I could go to by flying and that wouldn't have me get up early in the morning or be on the plane for 8-9 hours I would. I would gladly switch to animazement if I could but I can't due to personal life reasons plaguing me and the amount of work it takes to get to the east coast.
Fanime has tried to change things by changing the hotel registration and while it MIGHT have made things slightly easier, we STILL face the same crashes and the same problem that has been plaguing the convention for the past few years. And they also answered questions as to why Fanime 2012 was absolutely terrible. Even if some questions have been answered, that convention attendees have long asked Fanimecon. That, however does not improve the convention. The same complaints are still pouring and I see many angry attendees infuriated by Fanime's lack of communication.
No guests announcements, no event announcements, information that's been held back from us that would have been vital to know. Just EVERYTHING!!! I could state the reason why Fanime is getting so much backlash but most of you who follow social media would know. I am just plain SICK AND TIRED of the lack of communication from the staff. Even if they do answer they all sound like excuses. " The reason why a lot of announcements are late because we have a lot of "pending' announcements awaiting final confirmations. We dislike announcing things as late as we do but it is something outside of our control." Oh really? can you please state why this is out of your control? Fanime you have had 6 MONTHS to improve or change things but it's clear to me that you guys still refuse to listen! Without any input from you staff I just simply think it sounds like another excuse.
If there is one thing I can say is this. All of us attendees are paying customers, and we should be entitled to good customer service in which Fanime is CLEARLY NOT PROVIDING! Communication is a key aspect to customer service. This is one thing I do not understand about the convention. How hard is it for them to communicate and provide answers to attendees that have very important questions? How hard is it for the moderators to answers question or at least attempt to get more info, considering at ONE or some are here everyday. I paid 50-60$ for a badge in which I won't get a refund and while I have a hotel room. There is no reason for me to go if do not hear anything about guest announcements before the deadline of hotel cancellations which is the 29th of April. I already feel screwed over so I might as well cut my losses while I still can.
You can call me salty, hater or whatever but all I can say is I'm simply a forum member first and foremost and I am here to provoke conversation or at best. Get some information from the staff. So... I want to know what your guy's thoughts are on Fanime's communication.
You answered the question yourself, citrus. As long as people such as yourself keep paying to attend Fanime, there is no incentive for Fanime to improve upon anything. And, as you also put it, the other option, which would require you to pay a couple hundred dollars and spend approximately 11 hours one way to attend Animazement, is not a viable solution for you and many others who might feel the same way.
Here's my advice to you - Animazement isn't going anywhere. Just like Christmas falling on December 25th yearly, AZ always occurs Memorial Weekend. Why not save the money that you would have used attending conventions that annoy you (I've seen you complain on the SacAnime and Anime Expo boards, when they existed) and go to Animazement instead next year? Depending on how much you can put aside, you could even afford to fly First Class and thus not have to deal with those uncomfortable Economy seats. Once you experience Animazement for yourself, you'll be better able to compare the conventions, and see if continuing to go to AZ works for you. This would also give you less reason to write these posts as you'll be attending AZ and won't need to concern yourself with Fanime's issues.
As mentioned on other topics on this forum, the way I chose to deal with Fanime's severe problems is to simply attend Animazement that weekend instead. Yeah, I'm paying an additional $800+ to attend Fanime, but I meet up with friends there and the convention gets a lot of Japanese guests that make the money that I spend to attend the convention worth it. If Fanime can get its act together and return to the 2011 Fanime that I loved, I'll be more than happy to return. But until then, I choose to speak with my money, and Fanime hasn't earned it.
Same old tired, trite rant from citrus. Do you copy/paste them from a saved .txt document from the last time you made a QQ post?
Quote from: Amanojaku on March 07, 2016, 05:29:54 PM
Same old tired, trite rant from citrus. Do you copy/paste them from a saved .txt document from the last time you made a QQ post?
Same old, unsympathetic and cynical post from Amanojaku. Do you usually tend to antagonize all forum members like this? So long as I continue to attend the convention I have every right to complain or voice my concerns. I don't post or make new forums for the sake of trolling. You antagonizing me does nothing to contribute this forum or me but yourself, In which I assume you are only doing this for your own amusement. Have you even bother to read my thread post?
At least one of the forum members here is giving me valuable input without having to antagonize me. So I suggest you either make a post that will contribute or have some value of input. You are free to continue make antagonizing posts, in which sounds like you will.
The thing is...we're all mad about the same things you are. It's just that there's nothing really new to hash out right now. We've been over this.
Also, cutiebunny has some great suggestions and advice, as always. It really feels like complaining for the sake of complaining at this point. It's not that you don't have a right to complain, and you do, but it isn't productive. It's also not that no one else feels the same way...believe me, we do. It's that there's really not too much else to say anymore.
I'm waiting until the con actually does something for me to comment on before I make complaints. The lack of communication is infuriating, but it always has been, and angry rants on the forums really isn't going to do much of anything about it. Complaining about something specific to make my voice heard (such as complaining about the fact that the AA folks got shafted on hotel reg times)? Sure. But this kind of thread has been gone over so many times that there really isn't anything else to say.
Well, Fanime management has lots of ways to communicate. There are these forums, a Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/FanimeCon), and a Twitter feed. (https://twitter.com/fanimecon) There's a "Registration & Hotel Support Center" now. (https://fanimecon.cmrushelp.com/) There's a Fanime app for IOS (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fanimecon/id649217787?mt=8), and one for Android (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.devatelier.fanimecon&hl=en), although neither seem to have been updated for 2016 yet. There's even a Fanime API (http://www.fanime.com/api/news/). (What's that for, anyway?)
The distribution channels for info are in place. There just isn't much in them.
Quote from: citrus on March 07, 2016, 07:13:33 PM
Same old, unsympathetic and cynical post from Amanojaku. Do you usually tend to antagonize all forum members like this? So long as I continue to attend the convention I have every right to complain or voice my concerns. I don't post or make new forums for the sake of trolling. You antagonizing me does nothing to contribute this forum or me but yourself, In which I assume you are only doing this for your own amusement. Have you even bother to read my thread post?
At least one of the forum members here is giving me valuable input without having to antagonize me. So I suggest you either make a post that will contribute or have some value of input. You are free to continue make antagonizing posts, in which sounds like you will.
I don't think you know what cynical means. (oops, was that cynical of me?)
FanimeCon has its faults, we all know that, but have you ever considered expressing yourself intelligently or constructively? Look at Nina Star 9, for example. She offers a calm, level headed look at the issues, and has offered suggestions in the past. You don't do any of that. You should read your post again before hitting the post button.
But you're right, I have don't have sympathy for you. I also don't feel that I antagonize anyone, although I am mildly amused that you feel antagonized by me pointing out the obvious: your posts (and yes, I've read plenty of them) are still the same rehashed pedantic rants by someone who is eternally negative and disgruntled. They don't cover any new ground. They're never constructive, and you accusing me of not adding any "value of input" to a topic is the textbook definition of "the pot calling the kettle black"
The fact is, your posts come off like a petulant child throwing a temper tantrum. That is what I hear in my head as I read them. You simply will never be satisfied. I think once you come to that realization, you can probably move on and be a happier person.
Quote from: Amanojaku on March 08, 2016, 12:58:56 PM
Quote from: citrus on March 07, 2016, 07:13:33 PM
Same old, unsympathetic and cynical post from Amanojaku. Do you usually tend to antagonize all forum members like this? So long as I continue to attend the convention I have every right to complain or voice my concerns. I don't post or make new forums for the sake of trolling. You antagonizing me does nothing to contribute this forum or me but yourself, In which I assume you are only doing this for your own amusement. Have you even bother to read my thread post?
At least one of the forum members here is giving me valuable input without having to antagonize me. So I suggest you either make a post that will contribute or have some value of input. You are free to continue make antagonizing posts, in which sounds like you will.
I don't think you know what cynical means. (oops, was that cynical of me?)
FanimeCon has its faults, we all know that, but have you ever considered expressing yourself intelligently or constructively? Look at Nina Star 9, for example. She offers a calm, level headed look at the issues, and has offered suggestions in the past. You don't do any of that. You should read your post again before hitting the post button.
But you're right, I have don't have sympathy for you. I also don't feel that I antagonize anyone, although I am mildly amused that you feel antagonized by me pointing out the obvious: your posts (and yes, I've read plenty of them) are still the same rehashed pedantic rants by someone who is eternally negative and disgruntled. They don't cover any new ground. They're never constructive, and you accusing me of not adding any "value of input" to a topic is the textbook definition of "the pot calling the kettle black"
The fact is, your posts come off like a petulant child throwing a temper tantrum. That is what I hear in my head as I read them. You simply will never be satisfied. I think once you come to that realization, you can probably move on and be a happier person.
Have I ever thought I expressed myself intelligently or constructively? I can try and do so the best of my ability and as much as I can. But many have already done that for me so there's nothing I can do to add that value whatsoever. Even If I do so it's been clearly shown that even those who have expressed themselves intelligently or constructively. it's been fallen on deaf ears. Whether or not I express it intelligently or constructively I just don't see the point of doing so. All these angry "rants" you call them I do so is because I truly feel like it will accomplish something. I feel that by insulting the staff whether it be on facebook, twitter or any social media. It will provoke them and give some kind of answer eventually.
Given on how many angry attendees there are. Quite a few of them must be doing the same thing as I. Posting same angry rants or response. Given on how I see it. The con eventually will crack under the pressure from the amount of complaints or attacks and eventually give some kind answer. How long can the staff handle getting e-mails upon emails of angry complaints for long periods of time, without giving a response? With their stubborn nature of refusing to communicate or not taking feedback into our consideration? It does absolutely nothing for the staff but put pressure on them. And if they want to get away from that pressure they should do so by giving some kind of answer. But they haven't. It almost feels like the staff LIKES being pressured or making their attendees angry. With how bad communication is. This will only make the attendees angrier and not get anything done. Even if it's something along the lines of an apology like " We are very sorry for not getting back to any of your questions. You can rest assured, that we are working hard to solve the problem."
The point I'm trying to make here is that a very simple and assuring message or communication of some kind can relieve the pressure from Fanime and as well some of the anger the attendees I feel. No con is perfect and Fanime is no different. No matter what each con will have faults no matter what. I realize that. I been to a couple of other conventions in the past and I know how their structure works to some degree. They may have flaws but they are ones I can deal with and have a good time. Did I have have a good time at Fanime 2015? Yes, to some extents I have. But my experience could have been better. Deep down I still feel loyal to Fanime and I just want it to improve the best way I can. I fully admit I may have a weird or unproductive way of showing it. But I still like the convention. I just have a hard time moving on and letting go.
Eternally negative and disgruntled is your impression of me? Considering all else that's the impression you have of me and you will most likely always will have that impression of me. I've seen how you respond to all other forum members whether the complain or not and to say the least the comments or responses you make towards people to say the least will provoke some kind of negative response. " The fact is, your posts come off like a petulant child throwing a temper tantrum." If I come off like that so much tell me how to improve so that way I won't come off like that is. If your willing to invest time doing so. " You simply will never be satisfied. I think once you come to that realization, you can probably move on and be a happier person." I argue that is not the case. I have been satisfied with Fanimecon during 2009-2011 but the past few years have change that for many reasons. Many and I mean many others said they same thing. If Fanime can continue to go back to 2011 they'll be happy to return. And while some haven't attend this convention in a few years they still come to the forums and chit-chat or help with others with reasons.
And yes I have read the many other people's suggestions and I do appreciate and acknowledge them. Most of them offer great advice and I have taken consideration into moving on. But so long as I continue to attend the con. I will continue to post and voice my concerns or complaints. And so far from what I've seen none of the staff have a problem with the actions or posts I make toward the forums. If they had a problem they would have already warned or banned me but they haven't. If you have a problem with my posts then tell me what I can do to be more productive or come off less of an unsavory character. And I'm not being sarcastic here. I have my reasons why I still attend the con and I have been trying to find another convention to attend to but due to various circumstances I'm still stuck with the convention for the time being. And like I said I'm still a forum member. I still have the rights to post or discuss things with other forum members and I do know that not all my posts have always been about complaints. I do not consider myself as a bad person. I'm just an angry attendee that's trying to find a satisfying solution to my problems with this con.
Amano has a point here. Your complaints are nothing but useless rants and they aren't constructive criticism at all. Fanime is not going to listen to useless rants like yours, so what's the point?? If you addressed the issues at hand in a more mature and understanding way, perhaps you'd have a better chance of getting your voice heard. Instead, I doubt hardly anyone is gonna read your posts thoroughly when they see that it's nothing but the same old same old. (To prove my point, yes, I actually read the post, and yup, same old same old.)
You want Fanime to hear you?? Contact them DIRECTLY yourself. Don't waste our time by making useless posts that Fanime might not even read unless you directly message them.
Bare with me, I haven't slept for the better part of a day now, and haven't got much sleep at all for the last 2 or so weeks, so I might be a little incoherent.
An observation I have had over the years is, generally, people don't like to cater to the loud angry and disrespectful complainers/criticizers (unless they are forced to by someone above them), especially when they arent putting forward any constructive complaints/criticisms. At least not until they have a figurative mob coming for them, which while they do have a bit of outrage aimed at them right now, there isnt enough so to lead to that. For the most part the con is fine for many attendees each year, so us less something truely outrageous happens I doubt it will ever get to the point of torches and pitchforks.
Convention staff have had an issue with communication no doubt, but I wouldn't say they completely ignore everything either. Ill give them the benefit of the doubt with the hotel fiasco. They tried to do something to improve it, and did to a minor degree at least, but they did miss up by not communicating the importance of registration date. None the less I think they at least have seen from the past few years that there has been an issue with housing, so they are paying attention at least to a degree.
I think the biggest issue is that the vast majority of staff our volunteers working on the con on the side. They have lives and responsibilities that take precedence over the con. Actions by staff are going to resolve slowly, and communication between departments is going to be even more so.
I feel like the con has grown to big for it to retain its identity as a con 'for fans, by fans' and work completely effective. The things expected of a large con are a bit too difficult for a handful or volunteers to meet.
What's the point in announcing a guest then cancelling them or announcing that they cancel later?
I've gone to other conventions based on guests, the guest cancel, I don't get my refund and get stuck going....
You are either IN or OUT...and if you definitely need to see who's coming, wait... if you are worried about booking a hotel, then realistically you were already in.
Haven't you noticed, one convention might announce a guest, then the anime convention right around the corner (*cough* or somewhere else in the state) books that guest right out from under the original con...?
Communication is a hard thing to figure out. You don't want to announce anything that isn't already pen to paper, because announcing cancellations sucks. It always hurts when I have to post to Facebook, "X panel has been cancelled due to the host cancelling the event." No one wants to hear what doesn't happen at the convention. Everyone wants to hear what good stuff is happening. In fact, despite the fact that the panels I had to announce cancellations for HolMat2015 were minor panels, people still responded to them more. People see that more. But, as a Panel Coordinator, I had a duty to keep my attendees informed as soon as I knew the information, because its their money, and I wanted them the maximum amount of time to be able to plan their time for the convention, and it was heavily appreciated.
If any Fanime staff is listening, I can tell you that the more you talk to your attendees, the more they appreciate you. I put myself heavily out there from October to December. I had people say some really bad things about cancellations, but, once I got to the convention, I got so many people going, "Thank you for keeping me informed." I never announced anything that didn't have ink to paper, and we timed most of the announcements, but we announced things very consistently, and very quickly. We kept everyone informed. The schedule changed, but people could plan two months before the convention on which panels they were going to go to, which times they were going to schedule their photoshoots, and when they were going to go to an event. We had a solid convention. Things did change, but that's unavoidable.
I wish I could help you all, but its a little late in the game for me to get in and help (if you need help in the first place). :P
Hi! I'm a staffer. I do not represent Fanime. This post is not necessarily directed at everyone on this thread, but it is at the very least the best I could do. I wish I could take off that hat to talk to you from my side of the curtain but it's more of less glued on so let me give this a shot and hopefully respect where the line is while still letting you know that I hear you.
To quote Imper1um "Communication is a hard thing to figure out."
Departments are separate and what I know in my department is different from what another staffer knows in their department. If you ever attend a staff meeting one of the first things you will hear is "If it's not your department don't talk about it." Technically I could be considered to be overstepping by responding to this thread at all, but again it depends on exactly where that line is. Is this a place where I can respond as a volunteer, attendee, and a person of the community? We will see.
There are things that as a staffer in a department I literally am not allowed to tell you. There has been information that I could not speak on until it was announced by social media at a time agreed on by Chair. It can be terribly frustrating not to be able to address things, but it is also something I agreed to when I joined staff. And I would not trade being a staff member for being able to talk to you about those things until I am allowed, if ever.
I can't say definitively why any information is withheld for longer then you would like, but I would hypothesize as to some potentials, maybe they don't have all the details ironed out and if they announced anything it would create a flood of questions that they don't yet have answers for, maybe there are legal reasons, maybe they want to release information in a particular order to try to make it as digestible as possible for fans (yes there are some people who do get confused, which is perfectly all right but it seems a reasonable thing to minimize), maybe it's something they don't even know about for sure until very last minute. And finally maybe they don't want to release the information until it's finalized to prevent the spread of misinformation.
This convention has several different departments which are part of different divisions which all operate under a chair and between these arms there are several different things that have to be discussed, finalized, ordered, clarified and agreed upon often communicating with each other. All of this functioning underneath (because I'm not sorry to admit I prioritize my life higher than this convention) other responsibilities and obligations of time.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to have expectations about an event you pay money to attend, but I do wonder at the method of trying to make your opinion heard. Yes some staffers read the forums, but honestly if you feel as passionately about this as you seem to email the department you don't think is giving you information or even better the Chair.
I know you are going to find this trite, but you should join staff. If you continue to want to attend this convention in hopes of improvement, but are consistently disappointed by it; joining staff will at least let you know where exactly you might want to address your complaints. No, you won't be able to join staff and immediately have a position where you can change things, but had you joined when you first realized there were things you disagreed with perhaps you would be in such a position now. At the very least you will gain information which is not so bad a thing to receive.
And in case you didn't know there is still plenty of time to join staff if you want to help. It might not be in the department you prefer or in the position you want but you would get an inside look at how the convention operates and be in a better position for next year.
I can honestly tell you that I joined staff to have something more to do at the convention, to learn about why and how things happened the way they do, and to have some sort of positive impact on the experience of the attendees. I believe that is the same reason that everyone joined staff, so while you are frustrated please realize that we are probably equally frustrated that we weren't able to meet your expectations.
Thank you for your time,
Arianna Gonzales
And as a reminder this is just the opinion of one person who loves this convention as much as I think you do, not Fanime as a whole.
Thank you for your comments, AngelWings.
Quote from: AngelWings on April 01, 2016, 11:21:54 PM
If you ever attend a staff meeting one of the first things you will hear is "If it's not your department don't talk about it." Technically I could be considered to be overstepping by responding to this thread at all, but again it depends on exactly where that line is. Is this a place where I can respond as a volunteer, attendee, and a person of the community? We will see.
There are things that as a staffer in a department I literally am not allowed to tell you. There has been information that I could not speak on until it was announced by social media at a time agreed on by Chair. It can be terribly frustrating not to be able to address things, but it is also something I agreed to when I joined staff. And I would not trade being a staff member for being able to talk to you about those things until I am allowed, if ever.
Perhaps a communication liaison department is something that may be helpful, if not existing already? A group of a few people that keep tabs on social media from the side of general con-goers and, acting as a separate entity from other Fanime departments, can act as a more immediate communication mouthpiece both between departments (all on the up and up at staff meetings) as well as between staff and general con-goers. Not Public Relations or advertising or promotion or anything like that, just a few people that can filter through all the chatter and bring the most requested issues to all relevant staff departments, and then be given clear authorization by Chair as to what can be sent back down.
I think a big thing many people forget about when addressing Fanime's lack of communication is that Fanime is still a fan run event. Every member of staff is volunteering their time around work, school, family, friends, and any other hobbies they have to bring us this event every year.
Do I wish information can be decided upon and released at a faster rate? Absolutely! But I'm also positive that staff feel the same way. They also get frustrated at having to withhold information or just not having any information to share when so many con goers are biting at the bit for any scrap of info we can receive. Imagine having to deal with that sort of external pressure, with your only compensation being a sense of pride in what you helped pull off at the end of the year? It's not a task I would want to take on, and I greatly admire staffers who continually sign themselves up for this sort of hell every year.
A question that's been brought up before is: "Is Fanimecon getting too big to continue being a fan run con?" I for one enjoy Fanime's small con feel on a large scale and wonder how much of that would change if an outside company were brought in. Would any of Fanime's existing issues (mainly communication with attendees and artists) be resolved? Or would it just bring in new problems and new issues?
Quote from: Kyra_Maverick on April 03, 2016, 10:22:47 PM
A question that's been brought up before is: "Is Fanimecon getting too big to continue being a fan run con?" I for one enjoy Fanime's small con feel on a large scale and wonder how much of that would change if an outside company were brought in. Would any of Fanime's existing issues (mainly communication with attendees and artists) be resolved? Or would it just bring in new problems and new issues?
Personally I like Fanime the way it is, and I agree with your comment of Fanime having a small con feel on a large scale. The wheel doesn't need to be reinvented, this convention has something special that others don't have - I think that's why a lot of us go.
The real sticking points are few and far between. Artist Alley vendors not having housing registration priority and being left in the dark is one of the big ones off the top of my head. That's just not right. There's no way that can be spun other than it was an oversight, a mistake, an error, an accident. Take care of it and move on. The issue arises when it doesn't seem like it's being addressed, even if it is behind closed doors. It's also bad form to say, "Hey, we'll get back to you on that." and then go completely silent for months. Being better about that, just a little, would go a long way to relieve a lot of stress on the attendee side. However no one on staff should ever feel obligated to respond to pure and relentless "call you out" posts on social media, which is what this forum thread began as.
Kyra has a really good point. We have to remember that Fanime is run by fans, and they have other jobs and other priorities out there. And while some of us are complaining and annoyed by the lack of communication, what do you think the staff members and the Chair people are doing?? They aren't just sitting around thinking that everything's gonna magically be complete by the time con rolls around. No, they are most likely either tending to their families, at their other job that isn't Fanime-related, the list goes on. But they do what they can to make this convention still happen. Has there ever been a time where Fanime had to be cancelled? No. Then why are we complaining??
Quote from: Angelx624 on April 04, 2016, 05:16:27 PM
Kyra has a really good point. We have to remember that Fanime is run by fans, and they have other jobs and other priorities out there. And while some of us are complaining and annoyed by the lack of communication, what do you think the staff members and the Chair people are doing?? They aren't just sitting around thinking that everything's gonna magically be complete by the time con rolls around. No, they are most likely either tending to their families, at their other job that isn't Fanime-related, the list goes on. But they do what they can to make this convention still happen. Has there ever been a time where Fanime had to be cancelled? No. Then why are we complaining??
Because some of the very people they're not communicating with are the ones who are technically
part of the convention. Artists have had nothing but silence since judging results came out and our supposed "pay or forfeit" date was supposed to be 3/31. There's NO information whatsoever on Artist Gallery. From my understanding the dealers are still waiting on packet information. We're less than 60 days out, and where's the professional registration? Or Press? No additional word on Swap Meet (and they do have a fairly regular presence here in the forums - kudos, seriously!!), the list continues.
"For Fans, By Fans" will only get you so far and there's only so much quarter we can afford them before it starts to have seriously negative repercussions.
I really like where this discussion has gone, and both the insider info and the suggestions, so thank you, everyone. (Also glad to see that I have a reputation for being level-headed!)
I'm in camp "this con can't keep hiding behind the 'by fans for fans' tagline and expect people to handwave away their problems because it's just fans running it." Not at this size of con. I feel like most other cons are also run by fans and don't have this big of an issue with communication. I'm also in camp "something needs to change," but I'm not sure what it is.
Love all the insider info about the departments, so thank you, AngelWings. It seems to be pretty much exactly as I imagined on the inside. I'm in agreement that there needs to be a way for communication to get to all the people who need it -- a social media liaison who can either address issues or direct them to the right place is a good place to start, but there also needs to be someone on the inside who can help departments talk to each other and get communication across lines. I understand that there will always be things that can't be disclosed to the public, but it seems like there's so much poor organization going on at this con that it makes it worse. I don't need guest announcements prematurely, but I do need things like the hotel booking system announced before pre-reg opens. Or AA folks getting communication on time. Or announcements about things like Swap Meet and Art Gallery and other departments that should be getting their registrations up around this time (or at least talking about them). Etc.
I think that bringing in an outside group to organize things and keep everything on track is a good idea, and it's certainly getting to that point. I think that I'd like to see a staff position that's basically the town crier be created first -- someone who can run between departments to make sure everything is running smoothly, that can help departments stay on top of their deadlines, and can help direct questions that arise on social media to the correct department. Someone with high-level access to information, who knows when and where to reveal and withhold information, but no actual power, just a communications lubricant. Hell, I'd volunteer for this myself if I wasn't busy with grad school.
I agree with InsaneDavid that the problem is less the lack of concrete information and more the perception that the issues aren't being addressed at all. This con is way more secretive than other cons I've attended, and seems to be less likely to own up to and address its mistakes. As I've said, things like guest announcements? Not really an issue. The perception that things aren't happening behind the scenes even though the con is in less than two months? Bigger issue. The fact that this has been going on for years and people have complained about it and nothing has changed, even though other cons tend to announce guests sooner? Even bigger issue.
Even announcements that the con is working on things and we can peek behind the curtain a little bit would be a much better situation than the silence we usually get. Artists not being able to hear back from AA about the payment deadline is a pretty clear example of this -- people have tried reaching out to the con, but haven't gotten anything back, and are frustrated by it. Even an announcement like "hey, sorry for the delays, we're working on it and we'll have the info out to you by [date]" would be better than nothing. Even something as minimal as "we see your problems and acknowledge them. We will get the information to you as soon as possible, and will work on addressing these problems in the future" (or, you know, less vague than that, since this is a catch-all potential tweet, not the exact thing I want to hear) would be better than silence. (Well, it's this con, so that kind of thing would likely make people angry because they /know/ that the con doesn't communicate...there needs to be a history of better communication in order for something that vague to be relevant.)
Yes, everyone is a volunteer, and yes, it's hard. You have to balance your personal life and the con. But if the amount of people who are working on it right now isn't enough, or if the process is too bureaucratic for decisions to be made efficiently, etc. etc., then something needs to change. More staff. Hire people if the con has to. Change the process. Do /something/. Because this can't continue if the con expects people to keep coming and paying for badges. (Or coming and providing content, like the AA folks.)
You can also put me in camp "Something Needs to Change", because as it is now, "Something" is clearly broken. Delays on announcing guests is minor, but may be the most obvious indicator that it's not all rainbows and kittens behind the curtain. I try to be very understanding to other priorites staff has because they are volunteers, but there is a limit. As understanding to delays as I am, I'm not going to pretend that everything is fine.
The idea of having a badge before being able to register for a hotel was something Fanime had wanted to impelment last year, and even announced, but was dropped. Setting it in place for this year was clearly on their mind and obviously should have been communicated with attendees before registration went up. Someone dropped the ball. The question is, what ball got dropped? Did no one even think that attendees would need this info? Or was it really implemented so last minute that we actually were notified as soon as it was possible?
The way artists are treated is not okay. To be nearly a week past the "pay or foreit" date with no word on when artists will actually be allowed to pay, is not okay. Artist's Alley takes up a large portion of avaliable floor space, so why do they not also get a large portion staff's time? To be left so completely in the dark, what else can they think besides "I must not be important to this con"?
What else can attendees think when left so completely in the dark besides "I must not be important to this con"?
"Something" needs to change.
Well, since people have other responsibilities, and that their lives outside of Fanime(families, other jobs, etc) take priority(as I clearly stated in my previous post), perhaps they should hire people who have more free time on their hands. No, I don't encourage them to hire anyone who's inexperienced and all that, but someone who knows how to help Fanime and CAN help Fanime, but also have the time to do so. Have someone who has the free time post stuff on the website(professional reg, artists alley info, swap meet, etc) and have them do it as early as possible.
Woh here we go again
No volunteer organization ever has all the people it needs. Fact of life. All of them do the best they can with whoever they can get, one day a week from someone is better than no one. If you think they are understaffed, volunteer. If you think they aren't doing enough, offer to help out. Let's be honest with math here. At $60/badge, lets be really generous and say they could find someone willing to give up a job for a part-time 20 hours a week at $8 an hour, round that out to the cost of 8k to afford one part time person for a year's salary. Now, of course, some entity is paying that person, and they have to pay into unemployment, social security, all the associated business things, which include lawyer's fees, bank fees...let's be super generous and say about $1k. So, which $9,000 worth of con are you okay getting rid of? Pretty sure there isn't that kind of money sitting around in a bank account with people going 'I have no idea what to spend this extra money on'.
I would love to help out with Fanime, myself, but I don't live close enough in order to do so. I'm about an hour and a half away from San Jose. :x If I lived more locally, then I'd definitely consider it.
But to those who do live close enough to be able to help out with the con, perhaps you guys should think about volunteering. ^^"
I'm not sure about Fanime, but if you can/want to help, its worth asking if they need someone to check an email account and make reports, or compile notes from forums, or other non-local things. That's very much up to the con staff but I have done remote volunteer work for groups before, so it might be possible :)
Quote from: aetherltd on March 07, 2016, 11:36:14 PM
Well, Fanime management has lots of ways to communicate. There are these forums, a Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/FanimeCon), and a Twitter feed. (https://twitter.com/fanimecon) There's a "Registration & Hotel Support Center" now. (https://fanimecon.cmrushelp.com/) There's a Fanime app for IOS (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fanimecon/id649217787?mt=8), and one for Android (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.devatelier.fanimecon&hl=en), although neither seem to have been updated for 2016 yet. There's even a Fanime API (http://www.fanime.com/api/news/). (What's that for, anyway?)
The distribution channels for info are in place. There just isn't much in them.
There's a Fanime RSS feed (http://www.fanime.com/feed/) too. Mostly the same info as the API, but in a different format. There's a mobile site (http://m.fanime.com), but it's broken.
Which of these will have useful info, such as important changes, during con?
I have been going to Fanime since 2012 and I have loved every year that I have gone. But I am not one who goes to all the things others do. This convention falls on or shortly after my birthday and it is my one trip a year where I get to go and not have to many issues.
I will say one thing that did bother me from last year. Not everyone knew the rule that disabled and those with young children get to go to the front of the line. Yes I am disabled, I walk with a cane. That was my only complaint from last year.
The year before was the masses in the hallways not in proper lines for the panels to allow people to exit. I had an anxiety attack (mine are rather severe) when I felt I was caged in with no where to get out. My friend apparently told me after I came to from blanking out that I very loudly told people to move it and IMMEDIATELY the staff was fast to act to fix the situation. For that I am very grateful for because if I had been in that predicament much longer I would have ended up heading to the ER. I was very lucky to have a friend acting as my care taker that night.
Now I can see people pointing out with such conditions I shouldn't attend Fanime. Yes I do realize this but this is the one trip where I get to recharge and get to be around others who are into the same stuff I am. I have never been in a place at the convention where someone was rude or mean when they spoke to me and that is something I like. While Fanime has its faults (we are human people nothing, NOTHING is going to be perfect.) I love the energy of the convention itself.
Sadly I am to far away to offer assistance with setting up for the convention but I have seen improvements when I have gone. I mean come on getting your badge doesn't take forever anymore! That in itself is a HUGE step in the right direction. So while yes, communication does need to be improved, I still have to thank the staff for working so hard and being quick to fix things when it is really needed.
Another thing I'm thankful for that they changed is where Swap Meet is. It is in a place where it isn't sweltering to be in there! Another big improvement that I found was a fantastic change.
Anywho I hope this helped a little bit from my perspective!
I am not a staffer, but my roommate is. Everytime I read these forum posts of trolls and complaints and think about how much time he invested and put into FanimeCon it makes me mad. Frankly, I think he's wasting his time, because the people that go don't appreciate it and they never have anything good to say. If you have a problem, join the staff. I did and then I realized I should've just kept my mouth shut. Then again someone might say "I think there is something wrong, but I can't do better or want to do better, but I'm a paying customer". While this might be true, think about those who are putting in the time instead of you. (BY FANS FOR FANS) meaning that they are fellow attendees that have given up their time to try and do something and as a FAN for others. Being involved with trade shows, I can see where they might have difficulty obtaining or maintaining talent that volunteers their time. For example, if a sponsor liaison/fundraiser or marcom specialist might be making 80 to 150k doing that job, why would they do it for free at Fanime. If Fanime paid someone to organize their event, wouldn't that reduce the pool of money for the charity causes and most importantly, reduce the events/attractions offered. Then in another post, someone suggest this as a reason to charge for tickets...oh yeah I pay $55 for the right to pay $10 bucks to enter a dealers hall and spend more money, or the right to buy a concert ticket for another $100. That's laughable. My own 2 cents, even though it's slow in coming, I'd rather get accurate information than wrong information. I go to Fanime for Fanime first. If the guests meant that much to me, I'd just hold off buying a ticket till I saw something I wanted to go to.
I've attended more cons this year with my roommate and I have to point out when it comes to hotels, this year has got to be the worst in history for the relationship between anime cons, the housing liaisons, and hotels. In my day job, I'm able to get much better deals than an anime convention ever could just based on what's gone on elsewhere. Don't know this for sure since my roommate didn't know anything, but I wouldn't be surprised if the delay for the hotel announcement was based on Fanime had to renegotiate their deal as a result of other con fiascos (AX 2015 in the JW, Touhoucon and Akibaexpo in the Anaheim Hilton, Katsucon....) You can already see an impact in terms of the changes in the housing policy, early charge, larger deposits, etc.
Someone wrote: "Love all the insider info about the departments, so thank you, AngelWings. It seems to be pretty much exactly as I imagined on the inside. I'm in agreement that there needs to be a way for communication to get to all the people who need it -- a social media liaison who can either address issues or direct them to the right place is a good place to start, but there also needs to be someone on the inside who can help departments talk to each other and get communication across lines."
This position and department already exists.
Someone wrote: "I think that bringing in an outside group to organize things and keep everything on track is a good idea, and it's certainly getting to that point. I think that I'd like to see a staff position that's basically the town crier be created first -- someone who can run between departments to make sure everything is running smoothly, that can help departments stay on top of their deadlines, and can help direct questions that arise on social media to the correct department. Someone with high-level access to information, who knows when and where to reveal and withhold information, but no actual power, just a communications lubricant. Hell, I'd volunteer for this myself if I wasn't busy with grad school."
...yeah and badges go up 200%...and besides isn't that what ARG vs Fanime actually is. I think one of the things you included in your statement is the idea of turning volunteer positions into uncompensated jobs. You are obviously a contributing factor as to why I told my roommate to screw off when he asked me if I wanted to staff.
Quote from: MyAlterEg0 on April 17, 2016, 07:39:40 PM
I am not a staffer, but my roommate is. Everytime I read these forum posts of trolls and complaints and think about how much time he invested and put into FanimeCon it makes me mad.
Blanket statements like the one "you want to see change - join staff!" are the ones that make
me mad. Nevermind that I'm a paying contributor to one of the exhibits advertised on the con's page and one of the largest draws to the convention itself in Artist Alley, but I've TRIED to join staff. And guess what, it ended up the same way.
I wanted to see real change in the department I'm passionate about, so I wrote in. I applied. I even began lengthy talks and phone call interviews with the department head and everything was seeming to work out great. But then suddenly everything stopped. No word. No email. I couldn't get more than half a second of conversation out of them. So yeah, I gave up after I got dead air responses for
months. And what do you know, AA communication just took a tank when they decided to close the official FB group for the artists.
Should more people join staff or volunteer? Probably. But when then convention itself seems uninterested in acquiring said help? Adds another layer to the complaint, don't you think?
^ I had the same response with a similar issue. So I found another convention that was more than willing to work with me.
Seriously. Fanime isn't the only game in town. There are other conventions out there that won't give you the cold shoulder. They're more than happy to work with you. Fanime banks on the fact that they're local to you and you're not going to spend your money to travel elsewhere.
The "if you don't like it, join staff" response never sits right with me, either. I think that this is because I shouldn't /have to/ join staff in order to get a good experience out of this con. (Not that it's been all bad, I mean, I still attend and still enjoy it, but in the past few years that's been despite the con itself, not because of it.) I don't see anything wrong with wanting to be able to enjoy a convention that I'm paying for, and wanting to enjoy it from the perspective of an attendee, not a staff member. Wanting to be able to enjoy the con on the level of an attendee is really not a crime, and some people make it out to be.
Besides, taking that argument to its logical conclusion, a LOT of people are upset over housing issues, lack of communication, AA treatment, etc., and it really isn't feasible for everyone who is upset to join staff to make it better.
Also, I'm not sure how much me joining staff would change anything but my perspective, since I'd see inside the con -- and probably be just as, if not more, frustrated with some of these same issues, since I don't know how much power I would have to actually change the structural issues.
And really, this con has a lot going for it, which is why it's continued for so long: good location (especially for cosplay shoots and gatherings), lots of food nearby, 24 hours, good game room, good cosplay scene (though the Masquerade is another deal), only anime con of its caliber in the area, etc. I think that if there was another con in town that was near Fanimecon's size and status, the rivalry might be good for this con to realize that it needs to step up its game. (SacAnime is the next closest anime con that gets near in size, but the location and the Weeb City reputation [and reality!] hinders it from being a true rival I think.) I enjoy this con -- but I'd enjoy it more if some of the more egregious communication and organization issues were fixed.
Maybe the anti-ghosting initiative will help things out some? Not in terms of keeping out ghosters, but in terms of people realizing that this con doesn't have much to offer besides the things that you don't need badges for (room parties, etc.) or otherwise caring more about the content there is, so there will be backlash that causes the con to reconsider its priorities and maybe fix some things in order to retain those customers. I think it'll probably be a good thing. Let's hope it's implemented well. ;]
(Note to a few others ;) I can go back an edit my original reply/post too ;] )
I'd have to say that the generalizations and the verbal stabs at the staff is the very reason why i quit staffing and think my roommate is wasting his time, effort, and money. Attendees aren't happy enough, making the staff think they wasted their effort (whether good or bad), that whatever they did do isn't worth sh-t. While doing that they either never realized understood the concept of what "by fans for fans" means and why "join the staff" means something different than how it's interpreted. Sure there are problems with organization and communication, but the comments about how the con is worthless if you can't ghost, just goes to show that your unappreciative comments help demonstrate that perhaps nobody should even bother volunteering to put on Fanime. Nina Star 9 comments encapsulate the extent of what the staff has to be organized to do (like run one of the only 24 hour anime conventions) yet demonstrates that there are a good number of people who don't appreciate their efforts or sacrifice. What I gather from your comments is that you think people should just rent out a hotel (to party) and say "f--k the con". What do I have planned that weekend? going to above and beyond 2 nights..playing video games, and having a good time instead of worrying about a bunch of trolls. Thanks to the many wonderful comments backing up my stance I'll get to laugh at my tired and haggard roommate when he gets back and ask "why'd you even bother? does anybody think you did a good job or care? obviously a lot of people thought it was cool, but the only people providing feedback (on here) think you're crap."
What I hate seeing on here is when people continually rant about how come fanime isn't telling us who is coming instead of just pegging the feedback email from multiple people with that suggestion/feedback. Also, if you were already going, how much of a difference does several months versus a month ahead make...and let's borrow from my other thread:
Say fanime announced that they booked guest x 2 months ahead, then 1 month before that guest said they changed their mind and wanted 50k more to show up, would you want the con to pay 50k more because they already told you, not pay any money and have you b-tch about false advertising, have them stand firm and then the artist plays 1 or 2 songs or merely poses and sticks his tongue out...? What if they told you 50 guests, then say AX said hey that's a good idea and offers them more money to only go to AX rather than Fanime would you blame AX, the artist, or Fanime...Obviously the convention you paid money for that didn't end up with the guest you bought a ticket for. OR in order to acomodate that 50k increase, fanime started charging an extra $50 to 100 per ticket to musicfest so they could guarantee that guest.
Cutiebunny says "Seriously. Fanime isn't the only game in town." Totally agree...that's why you don't have to go.
Going back to Nina Star 9's comment "Maybe the anti-ghosting initiative will help things out some? Not in terms of keeping out ghosters, but in terms of people realizing that this con doesn't have much to offer besides the things that you don't need badges for (room parties, etc.) or otherwise caring more about the content there is, so there will be backlash that causes the con to reconsider its priorities and maybe fix some things in order to retain those customers." Thanks for agreeing that the staff is wasting their time and effort. Let's not ever have Fanime again. ;)
<REMOVED>
<ELECTED TO KEEP>:
It isn't like this is about warm fuzzies, sometimes it takes a change...but the constant barrage of negativity will turn away the good as well as the bad.
One last post in this thread to clarify my position, and then I'm bowing out as gracefully as possible because this is getting very uncivil very fast. The only reason why I'm typing up a post now is because my words are either being taken out of context or wholly misunderstood.
I'm one of the most anti-ghosting, anti-"Fanime as a party con" people around. I want this con to be good. I want there to be good content that people pay for. That isn't currently happening. (And clearly, you haven't seen my other posts on these forums if you think that I'm pro-ghosting and pro-party con. Honestly, I'm not sure how you got that out of my previous post, but I can see how it could be potentially misunderstood due to my wording.)
What I'm saying is that people already treat this con like a joke, like the only thing to do is not buy a badge, rent a hotel room, and party. I'm hoping that by preventing ghosting from happening this year, people will either buy badges or leave. And if people buy badges, I hope that the people who don't otherwise find the con worthwhile (and treat it as only a part con) will be vocal about what they want to see changed, and that this will push the con to make some changes.
If you think I don't appreciate the work that goes into this con, you are dead wrong. I want this con to be the best that it can possibly be, and while I'm a bit salty on the forums sometimes, it's because I feel that being vocal about what I want to see changed will help with that. It isn't simply the fact that guests are announced late (and that's the main point you keep coming back to, even though that's not what I'm talking about). There seem to be large, structural issues with how this con is run, and many people see it (seriously, people talk about the problems on every social media site that I've seen this con discussed on). I try to post suggestions the best that I can. Yes, sometimes I'm just complaining, but I try to be constructive about it. I very much appreciate the work that goes into this con, but just because a lot of work goes into something doesn't mean that all of its faults can be overlooked. A convention as large as this one doesn't get an A simply for effort.
That is all. Feel free to reply, but unless this thread becomes productive again and not just accusations and salt, I'm peacing out.
Quote from: MyAlterEg0 on April 20, 2016, 09:43:16 PM
Totally agree...that's why you don't have to go.
I haven't gone to Fanime since 2012. I opt instead to pay the $800 to fly across the US and attend Animazement.
As I've said in other threads, I would rather pay the $800 or $1000 I'd spend going to Animazement if Fanime could get the guests I want. But when Fanime consistently doesn't get any Japanese artists that I either couldn't have met at smaller cons (ie. Nonaka & Yokota) or doesn't get any artists at all, it's a waste of my time and money to attend.
Telling me "I don't have to go" under the guise of a friend of someone who works at Fanime only further demonstrates why I don't attend Fanime anymore. It's this elitist attitude that *some* Fanime staffers have. The one staffer in particular that I'm thinking of will introduce himself and in the same sentence follow it up by telling you how many Rumiko Takahashi sketches he has. Because, apparently you're supposed to be impressed with that. I've seen how staff will usurp almost half an hour of an hour long autograph session so they can get sketches for themselves, and when they finally let the attendees (some of whom have been waiting for hours) in, they'll tell the attendee that all they can get is one autograph (while they hurriedly put their sketches away so you don't know what went on) because they have to get through that line. You can tell me that that's a perk of working at the con until you're blue in the face, but having been to other conventions across the US, they either hold an autograph session for staff before/after the con or hold drawings for staff autographs.
Sorry, but, you lost my business a long time ago. Granted, things aren't perfect at Animazement, but things are handled a lot more fairly for attendees than they are at Fanime.
Quote from: eHash on April 20, 2016, 09:58:34 PM
While I see everyone's points I may not necessarily agree, but I will pose this question to the critics: if you tried your hardest to cook a meal for your significant other and they took a bite, said it tasted bad, and said let's just go eat out instead, how would that make you feel?
I'd take a bite myself, and say, "Ack, you're right, let's go out to eat tonight," however I would still love my significant other and I would try again another day.
I know I don't speak for everyone but I love Fanime. I understand a convention, as with most things in life, is 99.9% what you make of it. The "terrible" 2012 Fanime is the convention that got me back into going to conventions. Other than registration headaches in 2013, I have had a spectacular time every year. I thank every staff member and volunteer that I can, especially a few that have truly went above and beyond in the video rooms - especially one staffer in the Nostalgia Room in 2013 - still my favorite convention memory.
Of the people I see active on the forums right now, I can think of three off the top of my head who are absolutely unwavering in their constant cynicism. None of them have posted on this page of this thread.
Quote from: InsaneDavid on April 21, 2016, 11:07:41 AM
I'd take a bite myself, and say, "Ack, you're right, let's go out to eat tonight," however I would still love my significant other and I would try again another day.
I know I don't speak for everyone but I love Fanime. I understand a convention, as with most things in life, is 99.9% what you make of it. The "terrible" 2012 Fanime is the convention that got me back into going to conventions. Other than registration headaches in 2013, I have had a spectacular time every year. I thank every staff member and volunteer that I can, especially a few that have truly went above and beyond in the video rooms - especially one staffer in the Nostalgia Room in 2013 - still my favorite convention memory.
Of the people I see active on the forums right now, I can think of three off the top of my head who are absolutely unwavering in their constant cynicism. None of them have posted on this page of this thread.
I agree. I've been going to Fanime for over a decade, and have yet to have a terrible experience. When I read most of the complaints here, its hard to imagine these people are attending the same convention I am.
I concur, I have never had a bad experience at con that was the result of the con itself. Ive had some less then spectacular cons of course, but not outright terrible. Im glad that staff takes time out of their lives every year to bring this convention together.
That being said, that doesn't mean I don't have criticisms. Nothing in this world is above valid criticism. Just because you are volunteering for an event doesn't mean you get to be immune to any criticisms sent in your direction or the con in general.
Honestly, despite Fanime seeming like a "joke con/party con" to some people due to the fact that they may lack things, I still take Fanime seriously. Not because of the events that happen at the con(save for Musicfest when they get decent performers) but I take stuff like cosplays and the gatherings seriously. At Fanime, there's all these big gatherings, and people still bring their A game when it comes to cosplay. That's why I always plan months in advance and pick my cosplays carefully for this con. Some cosplays that I bring to Fanime are ones I put a lot of work into, while others I bring are ones I can wear without worrying about them falling apart. But what it all comes down to is, I really love Fanime's cosplay scene. That's why I don't see Fanime as a joke.
And yes, I still buy a badge to this day and ever since I started attending. Hell, I've even held panels at Fanime and I always made sure those panels ran smoothly and were on top of their game. If I saw Fanime as a joke/party con, I wouldn't put as much effort into my cosplays/enjoyment at Fanime as I do now. I mean sure, I don't have plans on joining staff anytime soon, but I am gonna provide constructive criticism if needed as well as enjoy Fanime as much as possible and all that it provides. I guess I've become attached to the con and that's why I'm a devoted attendee.
It's been a long time since I've posted anything on this thread I made. I think it's about time I wrote something. Yes, I know I can be cynical and I may not have the best way of handling or saying things. But if there are a couple of things I can say is. I may have said a lot of things that would be considered "salty" or criticism without being constructive. However from the start I HAD good intentions and I still do. I originally started this thread hoping some way or form that the staff would read our complaints and either address or acknowledge them so they could change and improve things for the better. If anything I would hope that I would get information from others that would help change my perspective or become less "salty."
With all the information that people have been providing that I never knew. I can at least safety say that I reached my original goal. I'm not very good a writing I'll admit so the best way I can express myself and that people will be able to understand and comprehend is that I'll bullet point things.
What I have learned
1. I'm getting a perspective from all different people. From volunteers, artists and attendees with a entirely different or same point of view as I do. Originally I was very bitter and salty towards the fanimecon staff and felt they do not care one bit on what their paying attendees have to say. Thanks to the people that have staffed or volunteered at other conventions. I have gotten quite a bit of insider information and how conventions work or get explanation from a different point of view. I have read every single post and attest to think before I say something.
About volunteers and the convention as a whole
Yes. I have read everything the others have said. The volunteers I appreciate the fact that the attendees are taking time out of their lives to make the convention happen. After reading the requirements it takes to even GET a position as a volunteer and the amount of hours and commitment you have to put into even getting one. It seriously makes me wonder why many people still continue to come back to volunteer at all... like one forum member has mentioned it seems more like an uncompensated job. I could be wrong but I think even AX the biggest anime convention in all of the states compensate volunteers for their time. While it isn't much it's still something. I would have to agree with Nina and Cutie about the whole " If you don't like it, join staff." With the amount of time and requirements it takes to even get a position in staff, it's rather discouraging. And with phr34kish explaining her side of the story? Everything was going smoothly but all of a sudden Fanime decided to give radio silence and not only that they decided to close the offical FB for artists? The one thing that all artists rely on to get information I assume? To me that gives off a really bad impression. If Fanime is so welcome to all kinds of feedback how come we NEVER get a response back from it? A lot of attendees have tried there best but to give constructive feedback both at-con and outside of the con and even when we do, it usually feels like it's falling on deaf ears. And believe or not when I'm at the actual con I don't act like the way I do online. I give decent constructive criticism to the info booth hoping they would pass it on to the head. YES running a con is HARD and if it's volunteered run. I bet it would be even harder. I understand volunteers HAVE a life, but by volunteering to be staff at a really big convention it takes time and commitment. And by continuing to volunteer as staff you are making a commitment to do a good job on whatever it is you are volunteering.
I appreciate the volunteers doing their best to make the con happen. I REALLY do and I understand that there is some information that they can't disclose certain information under certain circumstances. But the least they can do is at least show you they ARE trying their best. Something as simple as "We are very sorry for the constant delays, we are doing our very best to fix the situation." But whenever I see any of the staff making any statements. All I see are very generic and blanket statements like " Our Professional Registration website is now open. We are sorry for the delay." or "Due to circumstances beyond our control there is a delay" Most of the statements or claims I see from staff most of the time tend to be very vague and tend to lead people asking questions like "Why was pro registration late?" or " How do I pay for my table at AA?" and I think people who even email staff wanting to volunteer or do their best to make the con better is often ignored. For a convention that is run by "For fans, by fans" the way how the con is structured and how communication goes on. It is run in a very clumsy or not professional way. The "fans" that try to make the convention happen certainly give me a message that they don't care one bit about my concerns or needs and most definitely give me a cold shoulder. If any of you who known and read my posts. I always emphasize Fanime 2011 was the BEST year ever for many reasons. Guests were announced in a very timely fashion that gives you enough time to plan accordingly if you got to conventions for the guests, registration was a acceptable wait, nobody had to struggle and fight each others to get a hotel room and overall the convention was very well run and deserved the title "For fans, by fans." But ever since 2012 things have taken a very drastic turn. Everything I mentioned that was good has now became the exact opposite of what I have mentioned and in fact in my opinion the convention seems to get worse each year with the department of almost everything, ESPECIALLY communication and hotels.
Can a convention be run by volunteers? Yes I believe so. A convention CAN be run by everyone who is a volunteer. For example Sakura-Con and I don't know how true this is but they have a similar catchphrase "For fans by every fan" or something like that. While I agree with many people that Sakura-con is EXTREMELY commercialized and in a strange way. They have had PLENTY of things that they were able to offer that I felt Fanimecon originally had to offer but no longer does offer it. And not only that, a lot of the people who helped volunteer at Sakura-con tend to be MUCH more helpful and I feel like the volunteers care about you. I may be the only one who has experiences this but when I was at Sakura-con 2015 or 2016. Due to very clumsy communication among the volunteers I was not able to get into certain events I wanted to attend or get priority to an event. However when I explained the situation to the volunteers or staff, they have fully admitted it was a mistake on their part because of miscommunication and did their very best to make up for it. They allowed me to go into a certain panel I REALLY wanted to attend despite being capped or get line into the priority line for concerts. Because of how well I saw the volunteers doing their very best trying to make things write and improve upon it. Because of the effort I see the volunteers or staff trying to make things right it makes me want to return back to the convention yearly. Sakura-con has around 24,000 attendees and probably more during 2016. Because that I felt that the convention cared about my needs as well as answer ANY questions I have through e-mail or at con. I felt like I mattered to the con. Fanimecon on the other hand... I feel like they don't care. Or if they do care, they certainly haven't shown it or need to show it in a better fashion. If fanime wants to show they care about you. And I cannot emphasis this enough and this is the reason why I made this thread is COMMUNICATION.
As of 2016 these are my top conventions in number order 1. Kawaii-kon 2. Sakura-con 3. Sacanime. 4. Anime Expo and the bottom and not worth mentioning. Can you guess?
How I rank these conventions are by many factors, 1. The guests. (My BIGGEST factor especially Japanese and music guests) 2. The programming, 3. Enjoyment and 4. How the convention is run and the communication I receive from them.
My point? A convention needs to be well run in order for someone to enjoy it. And yes I get it. My opinion is different from everybody else's on how they enjoy a convention. Some agree with me while others STRONGLY disagree with me.
Artists and attendees Artists are the MAIN reason why I attend fanimecon and the fact on the communication they receive and on how they are treated? I can sympathize with them a lot. I have many artists that attend Fanimecon and I have been a regular customer of theirs at the convention for many years. Being an artist in AA is very hard. Some succeed while others will fall. They are the back bone and part of what makes a convention. They come to conventions for a reason. Some do it for the social aspect while others and this is probably the main factor is MONEY. Some artists do this for a living while others do it because they like it and it probably helps with some expenses. I want these people to succeed and be treated fairly. But if Fanimecon doesn't start treating them better or give them better communication. I might as well take my business elsewhere.
As for attendees, this is a mixed bag. Attendees are what makes the convention happen and everybody has a different opinion or taste on how they enjoy the con. I come to the convention mainly for the guests, Musicfest, the artists and the Vendors hall. I have no rights on how to tell people to enjoy a con. However, a convention should be able to satisfy all attendees needs and wants. or at least communicate what they have to offer. Back then I felt Fanime was able to communicate what they have to offer as well what type of con they are towards attendees. But on how I see Fanime is communicating or how the convention is structured. it is a major headache for a decent amount of attendees or the enjoyment of the con has become significantly lower. Because of how it's structured I can't accordingly plan ahead of time. Fanime use to be a convention I felt that had everything. Not anymore. Like how others have pointed out. It's now a party con or a joke con. Most of the people who attend there now are REALLY into cosplay or go to a convention for pure social interaction and simple stuff like watching anime or playing games together, or you know in general "party" stuff. I well say this. There is NOTHING wrong with someone going to a convention for solely cosplay or partying. However, That's not why I come to fanime. What the con use to offer, has no longer been able to offer it or even if they do it has dwindled down by a whole lot. Attendees are allowed to like what they like and they are allowed to do what they please. I like the cosplay in Fanimecon and it DOES have the best cosplay compare to other conventions I go to. But is that what I go for? No. But if you like cosplay among other reasons, good for you on your part. You are able to enjoy the con. I just simply don't like the fact that Fanimecon can no longer cater to my needs and wants.
I agree with many others. Fanimecon doesn't need to reinvent it's wheel in fact what they had in 2011 and the past years were perfect and cater towards all kinds of crowds. While they don't need to reinvent the wheel they certainly shouldn't let it get battered and broken. And that is how I can describe Fanime 2012 and the present years. A very battered or broken wheel. When an item has been used for so long and has been battered or become broken to some extent that the enjoyment of you using the item is no longer there. Or if you use the item still, the enjoyment of it will be down by a whole lot. However, what considered I consider broken or battered item. Others will see it as a item in great condition and will continue to enjoy it. Even if it's maintenance has gone down or begin to see some issues with the item. It's tolerable enough for them that they will still greatly enjoy it. Or some there is absolutely not issue whatsoever.
I have been told numerous times by cutie and many other attendees. That I should move on to another con in which case I might be happier to attend or spend money on. I have been told many reasons why I should move on and why it would greatly benefit me if I do so. And really, with how things I perceive now. Maybe it really is best for me to move on. If I can't go to animazement then I will go to another convention that's closer and while not in the memorial day weekend, somewhere during the summer. I have already payed for a hotel so I will be going to Fanime 2016 this year. As for the future... this MAYBE my last year going to Fanimecon. It's possible 2017 will truly be a vast improvement or it may not be I'm not sure.
However, so long as I continue to go to Fanime. I WILL still be posting in the forums or even if I don't go. I will still come to the forums and post sometimes. Just maybe not as frequent. Some of you treat me with respect and even enjoy reading my posts to which I am actually flattered by those of you who have treated me well. While some others hate my guts and in some shape or form would want me to disappear from the forums. However, you treat me is up to you.
With that being said. I think I have done my best what I consider to be my "constructive critique" while some while think I'm just a plain salty troll saying the same thing over again. I have done my best to attempt to give my point across and what I have learned. But one thing I can tell you is that I HAVE learned a whole lot since making this thread and I am glad I have made it.
If you still want to communicate or post. Go right ahead if you still feel like it's productive or you are getting some value by posting. go right ahead. For me. This is my closing statement for now.
P.S as of this post I have not gotten much sleep so whatever I say may not be consistent or coherent as I want it to be.
One thing I am curious about is if the new, and much overdue, badge restrictions for the upper concourse will reduce ghosting and thereby reduce the amount of stress (even in the smallest degree) on the staff and venue in managing non-paying attendees. I suppose that will have to wait until after this year to be seen but I do appreciate the forward-thinking of that change. Staff and volunteers, at least for the most part, should be able to be focused on convention attendees and convention business rather than every Tom, Dick and Harry meandering around Downtown.
Quote from: InsaneDavid on April 25, 2016, 11:30:12 AM
every Tom, Dick and Harry meandering around Downtown.
It makes me happy when I see someone other than me using this phrase :D
Quote from: citrus on April 25, 2016, 12:33:39 AM
A lot of writing...
I love the amount of thought and time that you put into this response. It's way less abrasive and much easier to read and agree with than I've seen before.
I agree with you on many points...and in fact, despite my usual defense of Fanime, I've made many of the same criticisms (1 (http://forums.fanime.com/index.php/topic,20228.msg486782.html#msg486782"))(2 (bottom half) (http://forums.fanime.com/index.php/topic,20062.msg486067.html#msg486067)). First and foremost, communication has been a very, very weak point for staff for a long time. Those who do want to communicate aren't allowed to, and those that can communicate, don't for whatever reason. If I can't know information at a given time, that's fine...I would just like to hear
something other than silence. Marketing and social media should be stepping their game up, in my opinion.
You're right about artist alley, too. You don't even have to be an insider to know that something, for the past few years, has been going on in there to cause the amount of discord that's happening each year. The artists are valuable to Fanime, but they aren't treated like it at all. Something big needs to happen in that department to straighten out whatever is going on - whether that's staff turnover or mismanagement or communication issues or lack of efficient scheduling. One of these years, the artists are going to feel that it's just not worth it to sell at Fanime, and I'd hate to see it get to that point.
As a plus, I'm glad that Fanime is trying to do something about that party-con image, whether intentionally or not, by requiring badges for everything. As someone who doesn't drink and party at conventions - crazy, I know - I'm going to feel a lot safer walking around the con at night knowing that there are less drunk randos strolling around trying to get lucky with "hot cosplay chicks." Too many times I've seen non-badged people wandering the convention center at night, smelling of booze/other substances. I didn't come to Fanime for that atmosphere. I actually read from an unverified source that the Marriott is going to be strict on room parties this year. As someone who's roomed next to those party rooms in the past, I will be thrilled if that's the case.
It really makes me sad to see artists not getting treated as well as they should. I'll be sure to contribute to selling artists at this year's con, though, as a way of saying thank you for sticking with the con. ;_;
Quote from: Kuudere on April 25, 2016, 03:48:37 PM
Marketing and social media should be stepping their game up, in my opinion.
I think I should annotate this with an example of where this
is happening, and that's with MusicFest. Their twitter was hyping up the guest announcement days before it took place (I believe that's Acid_Android's doing? She's someone who's been very receptive to feedback). That's the kind of break-of-silence that would be nice to see elsewhere if actual information is impossible to share. You can still show people that work is being done without getting specific in the details.
If I didn't attend Fanime each year since 2004, I might forget it takes place at all with how quiet it is on places meant for communication, like social media.
my last post in this thread before I say goodbye to everything fanimecon and just laught at my roommate and friends:
Fanimecon might receive seed funding by ARG, but is a not for profit event with the entire profits going to charity. No one gets paid. This is different for ax, ala, sacanime, non-profit companies that have paid staff running the convention. I heard that one of the >CONVENTION NAME REMOVED< chairs in the past was taking home hundreds of thousands of dollars as his salary.
You don't see that crookedness with Fanime, at least I don't.
In fact, in order to maintain a decent charitable donation, they deferred the overrun costs of 2009/2010 to the next 5 years. I believe some costs from the previous years was deferred and paid from this year's entry fees. So while everyone claims those were awesome years and the con has gone downhill, the last and current management teams are desperately trying to get the con back into the green.
the con back east that had serious amounts of damage by attendees also went through CMR (an outside vendor for convention housing) and screwed it up for all anime/fandom conventions.
From what I hear, all the hotel contracts needed to be renegotiated. >Some comments removed< If you notice, there are huge changes that were made by cmr for housing this year, including a deposit (per day) which could almost double the amount you think you are paying. This is not something the con did, this is what the convention community did to themselves.
Since the convention lies on a holiday weekend, union pay is 5 times that of a normal day <- this is why funds are so limitied even though people think the con has a lot of money. let's take a union worker who typically makes $50/hr, during that weekend he could be making up to $250/hr. The unions fought for their members' rights, so don't blame it on them; understand this is the cost of holding it that weekend.
An outsider perspective:
FanimeCon is arrogant enough to think that their power and pull is based on the large attendance bringing business to the south bay. However working with more than 10 of these businesses as a supplier on a professional level I can adamantly disagree and lean more towards the fact that they are empowered by the lack of significant competition willing to pay the sky high rates.
The businesses in downtown san jose would love nothing more than for Fanime to leave. The spending power of fanime's demographic is limited and equal to 1/10 of a corporate trade show that is 10x smaller. With that being said, the people that make out are the unions, union workers, and city workers that get paid 1.5x for overtime, and up to 3x for holiday double overtime. The local businesses lose a lot of money to theft, loitering, low gross purchases, and the fact that parking is scarce and higher paying customers are scared away. The restaraunts in the marriot, hilton, and fairmont gross as little as 1/20th the normal amount for a holiday weekend (let alone a 3 day weekend + the loss of customers on Friday).
The problem isn't necessarily just the management, but the price charged for a badge hasn't increased to keep up with costs/times. It was more important to the convention to make it affordable and accessible to all fans rather than alienating 70% of the attendees. People have tried to point to SVCC as a better example however it's clear that they lost millions of dollars. Fanime is not as lucky to have high profile backers.
As for the original topic....I can remember that some guests announced in 2009 and 2010 were stolen by a southern california convetion. I think the root cause might be contract structuring, however I can believe that that southern california convention could just find a sponsor like Nokia to help fund a better offer and what guest would rather go to a convention with <40k attendees rather than one with ~100k.
Ask yourselves what a fandom vs industry event is. People say if you think you can do better or you want change, then staff...It's because you don't understand the limitations/requirements until you do. If you're willing to just spend a couple hundred bucks on a ticket, then I guess it's fine...but remember you do get what you pay for.
Growing up in LA before AX (yes I'm this old), downtown LA during 4th of July Weekend was a different world. The economic impact of that convention on that weekend is much different than Fanime on memorial day. With a population exponentially larger, AX can grow based on the attendance and actual spending power. As a fandom based convention with a significantly smaller population (and in some ways directly competing with AX), Fanime's growth opportunities aren't as great.
The lack of insightful suggestions rather than people just bitching puts it in their comments in the same realm as:
chic-filet not being open on Sunday, why is the apple pie not fried at mc donald's anymore, who took the lard out of the deep fryer at mc donald's, what happened to kentucky nuggets, why is the jack ultimate cheeseburger so small....
do a little research and find out why economics played a role in the problem. not going to go into detail in terms of its relation to this topic...but if you are going to discredit fan participation and effort in terms of staffing or change then you are not making a positive comment and simply telling the staff that they are worthless. That's why I'm going to see Above and Beyond both nights in berkeley instead of going to the con (yay)
Quote from: MyAlterEg0 on May 02, 2016, 04:49:06 PM
The businesses in downtown san jose would love nothing more than for Fanime to leave. The spending power of fanime's demographic is limited and equal to 1/10 of a corporate trade show that is 10x smaller. With that being said, the people that make out are the unions, union workers, and city workers that get paid 1.5x for overtime, and up to 3x for holiday double overtime. The local businesses lose a lot of money to theft, loitering, low gross purchases, and the fact that parking is scarce and higher paying customers are scared away. The restaraunts in the marriot, hilton, and fairmont gross as little as 1/20th the normal amount for a holiday weekend (let alone a 3 day weekend + the loss of customers on Friday).
I'm not saying you're wrong here, but if we are truly a hinderance on downtown San Jose, they have a weird way of showing their annoyance. San Jose declared May 23rd "Fanime Day," in part due to the amount of revenue that the event brings to the city (estimated at 10.5 million (http://www.sanjose.org/blog/city-declares-fanime-day-in-honor-of-famimecons-platinum-anniversary/)). The article linked specifically states that this money is generated from various sources, which is not just being pocketed by union workers.
To add to that, most of my experiences with the local businesses have been very welcoming. The immediate staff are, of course, working hard due to the influx of customers...but there are plenty of businesses that create special signs to welcome Fanime attendee business. Some offer a discount if you show your badge to encourage us to do business with them. I mean, why put in that effort if we're such a burden? Why not just close for the holiday or reduce the hours? Local businesses instead
extend their hours because they know that there's money to be made. Regular, non-union people are being paid to work those extra hours.
I don't want to argue since it seems like you do have some knowledge in this area (and economics are not my strong suit), but I'd like to better understand why downtown San Jose is making such an effort to gain our business and thank us for our positive impact on their economy if they "would love nothing more than for Fanime to leave." Are they just making the most of a crappy situation?
Quote from: Kuudere on April 25, 2016, 03:48:37 PMThose who do want to communicate aren't allowed to, and those that can communicate, don't for whatever reason. If I can't know information at a given time, that's fine...I would just like to hear something other than silence. Marketing and social media should be stepping their game up, in my opinion.
Put me in the former group, but in Marketing's defense, they probably don't want to be posting different ways of saying "we're working on it" every week/month. While it may be some form of communication that people seek, at some point, those people are just going to be like, "Yeah,
right......" Seems pretty lose-lose to me if they're going to get backlash regardless of whether they post or not, so they probably choose to only post when there's something worth posting about rather than bombarding people's TLs with what will most certainly be misunderstood for excuses. While they do not always respond, staff do read the forums (you may notice that "ewu" is almost always online) and take everyone's feedback into consideration. You guys have made it clear that you would like better communication. I think it would be best now for people to refrain from theorizing why something may have gone awry since it just puts people, both staff and other attendees, on edge. I would recommend directly contacting the department you have an inquiry with instead of airing grievances on the forum. I'm sorry if you did not get a response if you have already done so, but concerns aren't more likely to be addressed just because they're taken to the forum. If you must write on the forums, constructive comments that don't sound entitled or aggressive are appreciated.
It has already been mentioned that this is an unpaid, thankless job that requires tons of work. There can be a lot of negativity thrown in your face by the very people you are trying to please, and it really does hurt when you do your best but people tell you that your best isn't good enough to satisfy them. Each convention is different so please don't go saying things like "so and so con could get *insert famous guest* so why can't you?" and claim that it's because the staff don't work hard enough or whatever. We work with what we have and try to make the best of it. There isn't a single person on staff whose goal is to displease attendees, and especially regarding guests, there are many, many factors that come into play when booking them which cannot be discussed in public. We don't expect people to excuse any faults just because this is a fan-organized event, but we do wish for people to understand (and perhaps even appreciate) how much work and personal time we put into this year-round. Unfortunately I can't address all the topics brought up in this thread since I don't know the goings-on of all departments and don't want to give any misinformation, but I can say with confidence that while things may not always work out, it's certainly never because anyone was "lazy" or purposefully made things difficult.
Why do we the staff continue to dedicate our time and effort despite the negative comments we may receive? The answer is quite simple: We do it all for you. "By fans, for fans."
Quote from: MyAlterEg0 on May 02, 2016, 04:49:06 PM
the con back east that had serious amounts of damage by attendees also went through CMR (an outside vendor for convention housing) and screwed it up for all anime/fandom conventions.
From what I hear, all the hotel contracts needed to be renegotiated. >Some comments removed< If you notice, there are huge changes that were made by cmr for housing this year, including a deposit (per day) which could almost double the amount you think you are paying. This is not something the con did, this is what the convention community did to themselves.
This makes sense to a point, but Katsucon was held in February and our badge/hotel update was announced in January. Unless we're talking about a different con? That's the one I know of that had damage photos circulated.
For all the staff who have responded, thank you. You dedicate a lot your your time already organizing this event, so the extra time needed to read through these comments and respond is really appreciated. To me, it's obvious that all of us love Fanimecon and only want to see it improve. Unfortunately while airing our grievances it can feel like all the issues outweigh the positives, but there is a reason so many of us come back year after year, and for me at least it's not just because of location. Fanime has shown itself to be receptive to feedback, and while it may take a few years to implement a system that really works it's uplifting to see those changes happen.