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FanimeCon Events and Discussionmentarianism => Video Programming => Topic started by: Marin Jei El on December 07, 2009, 11:05:02 PM

Title: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Marin Jei El on December 07, 2009, 11:05:02 PM
           FMV Contest Rules and Guidelines

        The rules are put in place to make an even playing field for all contestants. Please keep in mind that we at Fanime aren't perfect, so mistakes can happen.  If the mistake is found on your end, we will do our best to contact you and give you the chance to fix it.  With the large number of entries expected, we can't devote a lot of time to any one FMV, so some corrections may not be allowed. If the mistake is found on our end we will work as fast as possible to correct it.  Remember we on the FMV staff work hard and will do our best to do right by all contestants.

        A note to all contestants: please do not send your only or master copy, as all materials submitted will not be returned.

        All questions and comments can be sent to: [email protected] or [email protected]

           GENERAL SUBMISSION RULES
• Up to, but not exceeding, 2 videos may be submitted per entrant, organization, or group.

            • There is no maximum length for videos, but 6 minutes is preferred as the longest length. Keep in mind that videos of excessive length may be cut due to time constraints.

            • All videos may not have been submitted to any prior Fanime Con AMV event.

            • Any video with extreme sexual and/or excessive violent content will be automatically disqualified from the contest. Keep in mind that some nudity is artistic in nature, but any video that the judges deem in poor taste will be removed.

            • Specific dates and times for all FanimeCon events are to be determined at a later date.

            • Special seating will be made available for all contestants during the showing. Please be sure we have your E-mail and mailing address when submitting so your seating location, times, and materials may be sent to you.

        Video Bumpers
        Please don't put opening or closing bumpers in your video if at all possible. We will be putting uniform title bumpers to all the videos ourselves. Having a bumper will not disqualify your video but will be edited out. If you do not want your video to possibly receive a bad edit, please do it yourself.

        Submission Due Dates

        All videos must be in the hands of the video coordinator no later than the Hard Deadline of midnight on May 12th, 2010. Additional points will be awarded for all entries submitted on the Soft Deadline on or before May 5th, 2010. All videos submitted will be tested to make sure that there are no problems with playback. If there are any problems, there is a short amount of time to fix and/or resubmit your work. Remember this isn't school, so don't delay - submit A.S.A.P.


        Digital Submissions
        All entries must be submitted in a digital format, this means no VHS, HI8, or BETA Max. To allow complete control over the final appearance and quality of the video submitted, and to prevent quality loss, it is in the submitter's best interest to handle digital conversion.

        The inclusion of extra files sent in during your submission will not be tolerated. This infraction depending on the materiel sent may cause you to be disqualified.

        Online Submissions
        If you're a very busy person, and a lot of us are, please send your videos online. You can send your file over the Internet via Yousendit.com. Yousendit.com will handle files up to 100mb in size for free, and $2.99 for larger files. There are many other file sharing websites online and you may use any that you want, just don't send links to any illegal or illicit file hosting websites. Remember all file formatting and type rules still apply. Make sure to send your video to [email protected]. After the video has made its way to us please send another email with all the info as if it were a mailed entry.

        Mailing Media
        Multiple entries may be on a single disk, and multiple disks may be in a single mailer. A letter and text file detailing all media included on the disks must be included with the disk and on the disk(s). All media must be turned in on time to meet all requirements for application into the contest.
        Disks must be labeled properly with all info in clean legible handwriting.

            Info to be included on the label of the disks:
            • Fanime FMV 2K10
            • Your full name and either your email address or phone number on each disk.
            * Note! If multiple individuals are responsible for the content of the disks, a single contact person must be chosen and that persons name included on top.
            • If the file is larger then 650 megabytes or 4.7 gigabytes please span it across multiple disks. Please use either (Winzip - .zip) or (Rarsoft - .rar) to break the file into manageable file sizes.

All disks must be clearly labeled in consecutive order as part of a set (example: 3 of 7 or XXX of YYY)
           
If you wish to submit your file in another format to span media please email [email protected] to confirm we can handle it.
           

Info to accompany your disks, as both a written document and a text file on your disks:


         * For every production group (or individual if a video was made by themselves)
            • Production Group Name (if applicable)
            • Full legal names of everybody in the production group
            • Mailing address (single address for the group)
            • Email address (single address for the group)
            • Phone number (single phone number for the group)
           

         * For every video on the disks:
            • Name of the video
            • Production group responsible (if multiple groups are submitting on one disk)
            • Song Artist
            • Song Title
            • Footage used (If your video uses more than 3 sources, you need only list "various")
            • Category to be judged in.
           
*** Note! Judging staff reserves the right to place your video in any category if they feel the video was misplaced. To avoid any conflicts we will contact you before this move.

No media formatted as VCD, SVCD, or DVD-Video will be accepted. All media should be data formatted and readable as a simple file, usable on a PC or MAC.

        Your entry's package must be properly labeled on both the package itself and the disks included. And must include the full name of the contest you are entering as follows:

        ATTN: Fanime FMV 2K10
        Your name and address

        Mail all entries to:

        ATTN: Fanime FMV 2K10
        C/o Jose Marin
        611 Emerald Ave Unit E
        El Cajon, CA 92020


        File Formats
        We are only accepting files that are formatted in MPEG2, AVI, MP4, or MOV. If you choose to select a format that is different from the one's listed we will contact you and ask that you change it's format. Please, when exporting your files stay within official resolutions 720X480 or an HD size of 1280x720 and with stereo audio.

Suggested Programs for file conversion
   If you need to convert your video to an accepted file format we suggest using one of these two programs.   MPEG Streamclip and TMPGEnc. Both are free and easy to use.

        ASF, WMV, MKV, Windows Media, Flash/Shockwave Animation, Real Media Files are unacceptable.

        General File Settings
Video:
•   29.97 Frames Per second
•   Encode with an aspect ratio of 16:9, 4:3 is allowed but might be stretched during our conversion process.
•   If your original source was film or 24fps add a 3:2 Pulldown this will convert it to 29.97 fps
•   Please encode your video as deinterlaced. Interlaced is OK but we will deinterlace the video for the contest.   
•   Video size must be either 720X480 4:3 Format or 1280X720 16:9 Format
•   Single pass set to a variable bit rate and select 16 megabits per second
•   If you use two pass VBR set to 2 megabits as the minimum, 8 megabits as the average, and 16 megabits as the maximum.

Audio:
•   Use Layer-II or Layer-III audio at 224 Kilobits per second or better
•   Choose stereo over joint stereo for best quality
•   Sample at 44.1Khz

        We have a lot of hard drive space available and would rather sacrifice size over quality. If you're unsure of how or what resolution/frame rate/bit rate/audio settings to choose, please send the source file and let us do the conversion for you.

            *Note! When resizing your video the choice of maintaining the aspect ratio will be determined on a video-to-video basis.

Events and Judging
        Judging staff will consist of Fanime FMV coordination staff, Fanime Con staff, outside technical and artistic judges, and AMV editors not participating in Fanime AMV events for the current year.
        Judging staff will separate all videos submitted into 4 genres as follows:
        • Action/Adventure/Horror
        • Drama/Romance
        • Comedy/Parody
        • Experimental (any FMV that pushes the limits and crosses genre barriers, A.K.A the ones we can't categorize)
*Note! If we decide to move you video to another category we will attempt to contact you, if we get no reply we will make the change.

Notifications
   Different notifications will be sent out to each contestant depending on how far they made it through judging. I will post copies of the Email's on the forums and a description of what they mean to avoid any confusion.


1st Email – This will be sent to you notifying you that your video has been received and logged into our system.


2nd Email – There will be two different types sent out. Type A will be informing you that you have made it into the contest. Type B will be informing you yours was not chosen this year.


3rd Email – This Email will be sent to everyone giving you the time, date, and seating arrangements.
       

100 Point Judging Scale:
        35 Points – Skill/Technical Prowess
        35 Points – Creativity/Concept – "does the Video go with the music?" "Does your Music Video flow gracefully or does it roll like Square wheels"
        10 Points – Choice of Audio Selection – "Does the music fit the tone or selection of anime used in your Music Video"
        15 Points – Quality of source material – "Does you video have the DivX Logo? Does your video look grainy when expanded to full screen?"
          5 Points - Submitted properly – This one must be self evident, you need to submit the right forms, format, and have it in on time.


EXTRA POINTS:
2 Extra points will be given to those who submit on or before May 5th, 2010


*Note! Please keep in mind that the 100 point scale and any extra points are assigned per judge on the judges panel. This means that every point has the potential to make or break a winner.


        The judging staff will view each entry and choose which entries will make it into the finals. Don't despair - those that don't make it into the finals will still be shown along with those that did make it into the contest during the con in-between programming during the convention.


        Award Classifications

            • Judges Choice:
                    Judges Choice will be decided prior to Fanime Con and will not be announced until the Award Ceremony.
            • Viewers Choice
                    The attending audience of the finals judging will decide Viewers Choice. All audience members will vote on their favorite video by ballot. Each genre will have a winner. There will also be a Best of Show from all genres. Awards will be submitted to all winners during the Award Ceremony, which is held during con. You do not have to be present at the con to receive your award but it would be nice if you were.


        Exhibition Videos
        Exhibition videos will be accepted and may be shown at other events during the con. If you wish to submit an exhibition FMV please make sure your documentation says that it specifically is for the exhibition. Otherwise it will be judged as a regular FMV and may or may not be disqualified.

        Notice!!! Fanime Con 2010 reserves the right to make amendments to the rules at any time.

Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Tsu on December 09, 2009, 09:28:32 PM
Whoa!  Thank you for posting the rules so early!  It's a great and wonderful change from the last 2 or 3 years.  And no required theme!  Woohoo!

Are you a new director for the FMVs? 
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Marin Jei El on December 10, 2009, 01:38:09 AM
Quote from: foester on December 09, 2009, 09:28:32 PM
Whoa!  Thank you for posting the rules so early!  It's a great and wonderful change from the last 2 or 3 years.  And no required theme!  Woohoo!

Are you a new director for the FMVs? 

I'm glad to see your enthusiasm! We've done away with the required theme this year to see what happens. I have been given the chance to move up from assistant director of the FMV's. More than anything, I want to hear what you, (the fans) want from this year's FMV's. I hope to hear from everyone!
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: lycan510 on December 11, 2009, 02:41:34 AM
DEFINATLY. ENTERING. THIS. YEAR.
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Gaki on December 11, 2009, 09:05:58 PM
Please, PLEASE, God, don't make us sit through about an hour and a half of nothing but action videos.  Back in 2008, people were just getting up and leaving even before my studio's work got on-screen.  I didn't even bother going to the competition this year, got incredibly burned by Sean and the damned theme system he implemented. 

Plus his whiplash response to everyone's outcry was to downsize everything to only an hour and a half in 2009 - should have been about two and a half to three hours with the videos evenly dispersed throughout; 40 minutes per category, I think.  That's at least how I remember 2007 and the years before.

Good luck with the competition this year, really looking forward to it!
Title: I have a question about one of the rules that are stated
Post by: CorellianJones on December 12, 2009, 03:19:46 PM
Quote• Any video with extreme sexual and/or excessive violent content will be automatically disqualified from the contest. Keep in mind that some nudity is artistic in nature, but any video that the judges deem in poor taste will be removed.

I have a music video in mind that has a girl going through a power suit transformation in which she loses her clothing. During the transformation her breasts are exposed for 19 frames. There is no sex, no tentacles, just a school girl quickly destroying a monster via a wrestling power drive once her power suit has covered her up.  It may not seem like an artist thing to some, but removing it or substituting those frames for something else would wreck the flow of the song. Would the above mentioned scene be grounds for the judges to disqualify or remove the amv?
Title: Re: I have a question about one of the rules that are stated
Post by: Marin Jei El on December 16, 2009, 10:46:51 PM
Quote from: CorellianJones on December 12, 2009, 03:19:46 PM
Quote• Any video with extreme sexual and/or excessive violent content will be automatically disqualified from the contest. Keep in mind that some nudity is artistic in nature, but any video that the judges deem in poor taste will be removed.

I have a music video in mind that has a girl going through a power suit transformation in which she loses her clothing. During the transformation her breasts are exposed for 19 frames. There is no sex, no tentacles, just a school girl quickly destroying a monster via a wrestling power drive once her power suit has covered her up.  It may not seem like an artist thing to some, but removing it or substituting those frames for something else would wreck the flow of the song. Would the above mentioned scene be grounds for the judges to disqualify or remove the amv?


Let me find out what the official ruling is by Fanime as it will be a daytime all ages event and I will get back to you ASAP.
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: The Dude on January 08, 2010, 02:02:37 AM
Well I'm glad to know that I left a pungent and flavorful taste in everyone's mouth. :(

Yes this year I have stepped down, as I need to focus more on Stage Zero then on any other project. And to add onto that I feel that is why I wasn't giving you the AMV community the quality time you deserve, I had spread myself thin between the two. So I'm very happy to have Jose take over for me, I know he is more then adequate to complete the job.

I would like to defend myself a bit though. Yes the first year was very, very rough. 3 hours long and painful for everyone involved. The next year I was only allotted a very small window and had to work within those parameters, same for the next year. Jose will also have to deal with this as sadly even at Fanime AMV kinda come second to anything else. But let's not dwell on that.

Oh and yes a BIG F^*$ing mistake to do themes. I will stand behind never ever doing themes ever again. In fact when I gave the show to Jose I made sure themes were out. No more.

Jose and I worked on putting the rules together as Fanime itself was wrapping up in 09. We wanted to make sure that you guys had ample time to start making you AMV's. In fact we have next years Rules ready to go to.

To CorellianJones:
If you know from past years we have had some nudity. If it's for all of 19 frames don't worry just as long as there is nothing derogatory about it normally makes it past the AMV sensors. Good Luck!

And Good Luck to everyone, I can't wait to watch this year.

Thank you everyone weather or not you agreed with my decisions, for giving me this chance, and working with me to iron out the Contest that I now give to Jose.

-Sean
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Marin Jei El on January 09, 2010, 02:14:02 AM
Thanks for putting that out there, Sean. It been awesome being your second for the last couple Cons and I thank you for this chance to carry on what we've learned.

I know there have been many "behind-the-scenes" trial and errors and I intend to make full use of all we've learned thus far. I look forward to the opportunity to provide a great show, but I still can't do this with out the fans. If you're an editor, we want to see your best stuff. If you're an audience member, we want to hear what you like and don't like, or what you want to see happen with this show. If you're both, well... the same goes for you too.

Send us all of your questions, comments, and suggestions. We're always ready to hear what you've got.

-Jose Marin
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: gwhsanimeclub on March 23, 2010, 07:01:00 PM
Thank you for posting them up so early!
I just have one question, when you say to put it on a disc, do you mean burn it or write it? Cause I do not have a DVD burner and the only computer I have now... doesn't really have a way to write into the disc. I don't want to risk sending it online (as it will degrade the quality BIG TIME). Any suggestions as to how I can get the video file(s) to Fanime by May 5th?
Also in your judging criteria, is there a sort of "rubric" for the skill/tech prowess and creativity/concept areas? Thanks :D
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: khyaoiness on April 02, 2010, 07:39:36 PM
okay i have a question
before i even think about starting a video, i have to know
can we use video game RPGs for the contest?
like Final Fantasy, Tales of..., Kingdom Hearts, ect.
i just would like to know if those are allowed
please and thank you
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: LightandDarkSoul on April 06, 2010, 10:39:03 PM
Quote from: khyaoiness on April 02, 2010, 07:39:36 PM
okay i have a question
before i even think about starting a video, i have to know
can we use video game RPGs for the contest?
like Final Fantasy, Tales of..., Kingdom Hearts, ect.
i just would like to know if those are allowed
please and thank you
Yes they are allowed. Someone last year did an awesome job making a Kingdom Hearts AMV using the openings, endings and trailers
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Marin Jei El on April 07, 2010, 01:58:46 PM
Quote from: khyaoiness on April 02, 2010, 07:39:36 PM
okay i have a question
before i even think about starting a video, i have to know
can we use video game RPGs for the contest?
like Final Fantasy, Tales of..., Kingdom Hearts, ect.
i just would like to know if those are allowed
please and thank you

I have replied to this via email, but for everyone else... the answer is yes. These are commonly used and are acceptable.
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: gwhsanimeclub on April 13, 2010, 03:38:39 PM
oh hey i know this sounds really dumb, but when exactly is the awards ceremony for the AMV contest? cuz the masquerade is on saturday and the b&w ball is on sunday so i'm not sure whether or not it will conflict with those two...
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: The Dude on April 13, 2010, 04:46:27 PM
The Anime Music Video Awards are set on Stage Zero Monday, 2:00PM-3:00PM
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Jebus on April 28, 2010, 09:26:49 PM
imma see if i can work my magic and get a good amv done before the deadline. a suggestion in the meantime, however. several years ago i entered an amv that was disqualified for language, which ive subsequently asked several friends about and they didnt think it was even worth batting an eye over. now, censoring the music goes against my artistic principles, but i remember the first amv contest i entered here there was a mature warning before certain amvs. i think this should be brought back to some degree. just something to push things just a bit farther so a good amv doesnt get thrown out over a minuscule cuss or something. there are plenty of college aged people that come to fanime, im sure theres a sizeable enough chunk that just flat out wouldnt care and would rather watch a more "mature" oriented amv even
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Marin Jei El on April 29, 2010, 08:19:32 AM
Quote from: Jebus on April 28, 2010, 09:26:49 PM
imma see if i can work my magic and get a good amv done before the deadline. a suggestion in the meantime, however. several years ago i entered an amv that was disqualified for language, which ive subsequently asked several friends about and they didnt think it was even worth batting an eye over. now, censoring the music goes against my artistic principles, but i remember the first amv contest i entered here there was a mature warning before certain amvs. i think this should be brought back to some degree. just something to push things just a bit farther so a good amv doesn't get thrown out over a minuscule cuss or something. there are plenty of college aged people that come to fanime, im sure theres a sizeable enough chunk that just flat out wouldnt care and would rather watch a more "mature" oriented amv even

I agree. There is something that we can do if it really needs it, but for now, most minor things are not going to DQ a video. If we come across a video that needs a warning, then we'll address it as it happens on an individual basis.
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Jebus on April 29, 2010, 05:32:39 PM
Quote from: Marin Jei El on April 29, 2010, 08:19:32 AM
Quote from: Jebus on April 28, 2010, 09:26:49 PM
imma see if i can work my magic and get a good amv done before the deadline. a suggestion in the meantime, however. several years ago i entered an amv that was disqualified for language, which ive subsequently asked several friends about and they didnt think it was even worth batting an eye over. now, censoring the music goes against my artistic principles, but i remember the first amv contest i entered here there was a mature warning before certain amvs. i think this should be brought back to some degree. just something to push things just a bit farther so a good amv doesn't get thrown out over a minuscule cuss or something. there are plenty of college aged people that come to fanime, im sure theres a sizeable enough chunk that just flat out wouldnt care and would rather watch a more "mature" oriented amv even

I agree. There is something that we can do if it really needs it, but for now, most minor things are not going to DQ a video. If we come across a video that needs a warning, then we'll address it as it happens on an individual basis.

believe me, that is much appreciated. i mean i personally dont try to make it go overly adult, but at the same time most of the nice juicy hard hitting bits tend to not make for a kid friendly amv, but then the same could be said of most anime. i also happen to be using ga rei zero which while not quite elfen lied level, still has a good deal of dismemberment. all to be used in context of course

also, amv is running on schedule. will be ready by the soft deadline, easily
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: PacificPikachu on May 02, 2010, 05:11:23 PM
Oh darn--the submission date is during finals week for me and my friend who are working on our AMV. :( Looks like we might not be able to make it after all! I'm still going to try, but we'll see what happens. We're about 60-70% through, and while I have quite a bit of free time to work on it in the next ten days, my friend doesn't, and the AMV is on her computer and won't work on mine. Just had to vent a little!
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: LiL Moon on May 12, 2010, 11:53:47 PM
Hello. I was just wondering, my anyone come and view this competition?
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Marin Jei El on May 14, 2010, 09:54:15 PM
Quote from: LiL Moon on May 12, 2010, 11:53:47 PM
Hello. I was just wondering, my anyone come and view this competition?

As long as you have a FanimeCon 2010 badge (attendee, volunteer, staff, etc...) you have access to the show!
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: LightandDarkSoul on May 21, 2010, 08:56:21 PM
I just realized something. I forgot one bit of info for my address in my entry DX (I have a copy of the file I sent) I forgot to add the Apartment number. It's a minor thing, but can it be fixed? I was such in a rush of excitement to submit, that I forgot to put the apartment # How stupid of me... -_-;;;
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Marin Jei El on May 21, 2010, 11:24:18 PM
Quote from: LightandDarkSoul on May 21, 2010, 08:56:21 PM
I just realized something. I forgot one bit of info for my address in my entry DX (I have a copy of the file I sent) I forgot to add the Apartment number. It's a minor thing, but can it be fixed? I was such in a rush of excitement to submit, that I forgot to put the apartment # How stupid of me... -_-;;;

Not a problem. Just send me the update in an email.
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Pika1979 on May 23, 2010, 11:53:51 PM
i was just wondering if any e-mails have been sent out yet letting people know weather or not their videos made it in? i just wanted to be sure that i didn't miss it or deleted it on accident.
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Marin Jei El on May 23, 2010, 11:56:07 PM
Emails are still being sent out. Sorry for the delay, but the list of the line up in alphabetical order has been posted on the "2010 FMV Finalists!" topic.
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Tsu on May 24, 2010, 06:34:58 PM
Any idea when the 3rd email will be going out?
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: LightandDarkSoul on May 24, 2010, 10:59:55 PM
If a finalist wins, do they have to be present at the award ceremony?
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Tsu on May 24, 2010, 11:23:22 PM
QuoteAwards will be submitted to all winners during the Award Ceremony, which is held during con. You do not have to be present at the con to receive your award but it would be nice if you were.

Nope! The award gets mailed to you, I presume.
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Marin Jei El on May 25, 2010, 01:00:24 AM
That is correct.
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Tsu on May 25, 2010, 05:38:38 PM
Still no word on the 3rd set of emails?
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Marin Jei El on May 25, 2010, 09:54:11 PM
Which is the third set of emails you're asking about?
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Tsu on May 25, 2010, 11:28:45 PM
Quote from: Marin Jei El on December 07, 2009, 11:05:02 PM
       
3rd Email – This Email will be sent to everyone giving you the time, date, and seating arrangements.
   

This one. Is there early seating for the editors this year?
Title: Re: Fanime 2010 FMV Rules!
Post by: Marin Jei El on May 26, 2010, 07:17:55 PM
Quote from: foester on May 25, 2010, 11:28:45 PM
Quote from: Marin Jei El on December 07, 2009, 11:05:02 PM
       
3rd Email – This Email will be sent to everyone giving you the time, date, and seating arrangements.
   

This one. Is there early seating for the editors this year?

Ahhh... yes... That email has been sent out. Editors will have a separate line and will be allowed to enter a few minutes earlier than everyone else. That will be set up at Con. Look for the FMV staff when you arrive and let us know that you're an editor. Please arrive a little early as we will open the doors at 230pm. Thanks!