FanimeCon 2026 Forums

Hello everyone!

This is Jim, the Department 2nd for the Black and White Ball.  I want to say thank you to all the Fanime goers for making this year's Black and White Ball such a success.  We had a great turn out and from the looks of things everyone had a great time.  

I want to extend a big thank you to all the instructors and assistants for their time teaching and assisting dance classes as well as going to the Black and White Ball to help get everyone on the dance floor and helping everyone have a blast.

So I am asking all that went to the Black and White Ball, how was it?  The good and that bad of it, we would like to know.  We all know you are out there and you have your opinions on the Ball.  Please let us know them so we may improve on things and make next year's Black and White Ball an even bigger success!  Thanks everyone and enjoy the rest of the Fanime Convention!

- Jim
BWBall 2nd

Dan here. I think it'd be appropriate for another staff member to break the ice. So this is my feedback and hopefully it can be used to improve things for next year. Overall, I felt things were a huge step up from last year, but there are still some things that need to be worked on.

1. The floor. I'm pretty sure not a single member of the B&W department is happy with the floor after last night and can all agree with me. The condition of the floor was hazardous, uncomfortable, and as I (and a few other people I knew) got to personally experience, a danger to their shoes. In addition to falling apart, a large portion of the floor was sticky. During our Circus performance, there were parts were our feet actually went from being stuck to suddenly slipping due to the various conditions of the floor. Also, it had no give (i.e. unable to properly absorb impact of dancing feet) so I'm willing to bet a lot of people had sore feet. Five hours of social dancing shouldn't make my feet more sore than an entire day at a collegiate competition (where I REALLY need to apply pressure to the floor).

2. Rules. There are a few more that should definitely be addressed for next year. One thing I found I particular was that opposed to last year, where the hazard was that no one stuck to the line of dance, with this year, most obstacles we came across were people either idling on the floor, just talking, or people just totally goofing off. The problem with this was that people had no mind for what was going on around them, thus getting in the way of people who were legitimately trying to dance. This was especially a problem with the tango. While a good number showed up to the tango lesson itself, they were a small percentage out of the total attendees out of the ball. I was walking around and observing, finding that the few people who attended were trying their best, but it was certainly difficult when you had the majority who did not attend, goofing around by charging across the floor attempting their "hollywood tangos", which I should point out, is actually a hazard (e.g. I was even hit in the face by a couple just running around while I was dancing with one of the VIPs).

Something else I'd like to bring up that is not really a huge problem, but I got complaints from some of the people (mainly people I recognized from the classes) about them running into the issue of having a partner that claims they know what they're doing and then practically saying "oops, I lied. Teach me please". I know we can't bar people who don't know the dances and didn't attend the classes from the ball, but it would certainly be courteous if people could answer honestly when asked. The better dances a person has during a night, the more memorable the night will be and I certainly saw some people having a hard time finding the right people to dance with. I'm thankful that some of the other instructors/assistants observed this as well and jumped in with people from the classes, so at least that helped.

One last thing regarding the rules and courtesy. This may or may not be more of a common sense thing, but I found myself puzzled when people decided to simultaneously stomp on the floor when the power was accidentally cut. The floor was already falling apart. I would have figured people would realize that they should be doing less to contribute to its state.

3. Music. Sorry to sound mean, but some of the music did not work. Tempo is pretty important. A lot of the rumbas that were played were International Rumba or Bolero. In other words, they were much too slow. Some of the tangos were actually tango vals (Argentine Tango done to Viennese Waltz music. Somewhat advanced). Some chachas ended up being too fast (mambo/salsa), or too slow (samba). Fortunately, the other instructors and assistants have agreed that we should take a bigger part in determining the music for next year, so that should hopefully be of help.

4. Food. Most social dance parties always have free snacks. Premier Ballroom guarantees their guests a bottle of water and cookies. Dancing uses up a LOT of energy and people REALLY need to stay fueled. Even if they did come and eat before the ball, they may end up becoming exhausted a few hours in (remember that some people do indeed have serious medical conditions that may require to have quick access to a source of nourishment). I felt that the mere snacks offered outside the door were rather overpriced and that may act as a deterrent. People may choose to attempt to endure their hunger rather than pay up. That can be a potential danger.

5. Commitment. This is more of something for within the department, but I don't remember a lot of people who said they wanted to help out ever showing up. When looking at the assigned schedules, I don't recall ever meeting half of the names on the list. Fortunately, there were some experienced dancers at the con that we were able to recruit at the last minute, so we eventually did get the assistance we needed, but I must say that a lot of us that did show up were quite disappointed in those that never came, especially when we had to take over their assigned shifts to pick up on their slack. Hopefully we can do something to get a more committed staff for next year (from what it seems, most of this year's instructors and assistants, including the ones that were recruited at the last second, are set on returning in 2010).

6. One small thing. I wish there was a clock in the room. A visible one. While most lessons went well with the use of our internal clocks (e.g. "It sure feels like an hour has passed") and occassionally asking at the stage, having a clock around would have really helped keep things on pace. This is especially for Sunday, where we had MUCH more people attend than the previous two days. One particular case I was rather unhappy with was the final rumba. Even though that class learned their moves remarkably faster and more thoroughly than the class from Saturday, we lost so much time that we couldn't get nearly as far, which displeased me as people really wanted to learn the final move and I couldn't teach it the way I wanted to.

That's all I can remember for the time being. Hopefully these are taken into consideration. As I said before though, it was definitely a step up from last year's. I'm glad to have been an instructor this year. I hope people enjoyed them more than the ones from the years before and I definitely will remember some particular faces who ended up becoming quite remarkable dancers despite never having touched ballroom dancing before. At the ball itself, the ones who attended the classes definitely stood out more than those who did not, and I was quite pleased in seeing that they felt good about knowing what they were doing. I am also glad the VIPs decided to come after all. I had a blast dancing with them, particularly Karen Dyer and Patricia Ja Lee. I'll definitely be back next year to helping out.

-Dan Tran

Before we get into the cheers and jeers, I'd just like to say Thank You! to the staff and volunteers of the Black and White ball!

It may not have been perfect, but that doesn't mean it wasn't awesome!

(https://forums.fanime.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3600%2F3564828266_dcc7fc9f9c.jpg&hash=7f99bc07e107e9ffeb6ce625af6197978c6b4a4c) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fhf-org/3564828266/)

Quote from: Drk-X on May 25, 2009, 10:13:32 AM

...

4. Food. Most social dance parties always have free snacks. Premier Ballroom guarantees their guests a bottle of water and cookies. Dancing uses up a LOT of energy and people REALLY need to stay fueled. Even if they did come and eat before the ball, they may end up becoming exhausted a few hours in (remember that some people do indeed have serious medical conditions that may require to have quick access to a source of nourishment). I felt that the mere snacks offered outside the door were rather overpriced and that may act as a deterrent. People may choose to attempt to endure their hunger rather than pay up. That can be a potential danger.

...

hotel policy usually states that there is no outside food allowed so i guess the only way to change the prices on the food is for fanime to pay partially for some of it. everything else i pretty much agree with you :D

and yes, i would definately like to stress out the music choice. personally, i didn't like the music selection. i was there for like 2 hours and i didn't hear ONE song that "stirred" my interest. again, it might just be me. of course, i'll possibly give next year another chance since this is my first time but if all the balls before this were something similar i wouldn't attend it again.

For me, the biggest worries came with how many people are, and how the amount of people to size of room ratio made it sometimes about as physically likely to be able to dance as it is likely for you to phase through a wall.

The music was also, if not "bad", definitely not appropriate to the theme of a formal dance.

First of all, major props to the effort that went into making this B&W Ball more than just a prom-like affair.  I attended AX back in 2007, and I left feeling a little cool about their B&W Ball.  The care and consideration that went into trying to get people to do actual ballroom dancing was awesome.

All in all, I think the ball was a success.  It was crowded the whole time, and it looked like most attendees were having a blast.  (And I *loved* that there was a projector screen that listed what songs were coming up next.  Very nice touch.)  The only feedback I have is more part of a wish list than real criticism:

1) A smoother floor -- Sticky floors pretty much kill any fun that more experienced ballroom dancers are hoping to have.  (Spinning/pivots/etc become useless - unless one can tolerate the torque on the knees that comes with trying to do fast turning motion on a sticky floor.  I can't.  :\)  Combined with the gaps/separations between floor panels, someone wearing stilettos and trying to do a turn could have really hurt her knees/ankles.

(Hmm... I guess the gaps in the floor would be something I'd criticize.  That was just dangerous, whereas sticky floors are actually preferred for non-ballroom dancers -- it cuts down on liability of people slipping and hurting themselves, and all.  I'm surprised the Fairmont was so sloppy about how they put it together.)

2) Music Playlist - Perhaps having someone solely dedicated to keeping an eye on the playlist as it's going?  There were several times where the music went off the list.  (eg: The Final Fantasy VIII Viennese waltz was playing, but list on the projector said a rumba was on.)  For those who took lessons and are new to ballroom dancing, it'd help them out a lot.

By the by -- I didn't mind that some songs weren't painfully precise with their tempos -- being able to dance a bolero to a rumba is fine, since people who are new have it a little easier when practicing the rumba, and more advanced dancers can make the tempo work for whatever they choose to do just fine.

But, that only works when the dances are relatively related.  (Like if it's a song that can work for lindy, east coast swing, and west coast swing all at once.  Or rumba/bolero/international rumba.)  And only when it's sometimes, and not every song.

3) Music Volume - This needed to be much softer... it was painful to be in the room for more than an hour at a time.  My boyfriend and I left early because we simply couldn't handle the volume, which really was a bummer.  If the music needs to be played that loud, perhaps a warning to bring ear plugs should be put in the program...


Ultimately, the thing I think would be awesome for next year is to have a second floor (even if it was a smaller floor) for people who wanted to actually try to do real ballroom dancing.  That way, the people who just wanted to relax and bounce around could still have a good time, while those who wanted to practice what they learned in lessons (line of dance, etc) would have the opportunity to give it a go on a less crowded and less sticky floor.


Actually, now that I think about it, I'm a bit curious why the ball wasn't held in the convention center?  Meeting Rooms J1-J3 seemed bigger than the Regency Ballroom, and the floor there was good for a standard portable floor.  (Much smoother, and better assembled.)


All in all, great event.  Thanks!

Another one of the assistants/instructors, Kevin, here replying to Jim's post and Dan's post as well.

I must agree with Dan that the floor was not in the best shape, even about an hour in, I did try to keep the people I danced with away from that area.  My feet were really sore at the end, even talking with some of the others at the end (Samantha and Josh) there feet were sore as well.  I felt that the floor made it more difficult to lead, to me personally I have found sticky floors make it harder for me to lead personally because I need a little give and such and I can feel where my feet are.

Yeah the tango was a particular problem, and the other dance was the waltz where people would just run across the floor.  I did run into the problem of groups of people just standing in the middle of the floor and either not dancing or dancing in a group of three or more and either running into other people or making it hard to get around them.  I got the opposite I danced the tango three times with the same person because she wanted to dance the tango with someone who actually knows the steps, I can lead a corte (spelling?) just as well as I can lead The Door or The Fan. 

We had to scramble to find enough people to help with the swing class on Sunday, I mean it was nuts with the number of people their, and Travis did an excellent job.  Thankfully Samantha was there to help fill up the slack and some of the new people that decided to help out over the weekend.  Dan I have to also thank you and Elizabeth for coming back early so you could help out on the floor.  Yeah it was annoying on Sunday when I would look at the schedule and see names of people I had not even met, and wondering are we going to have enough.

Clock-on Sunday when I was at the computer up on the stage I did not know if there was a set procedure of when we had to tell the instructors how much time they had left.  Generally I would start off at time at 15 minutes left, not always by shouting but by using hand signals until you noticed.  I know that might not have been enough. 

I had a fun time at the Ball, hopefully everyone I danced with had a good time.  Hopefully everyone I did not dance with had a good time as well and that they all come back next year and bring some friends.  My comments are not meant to say that the Ball was a failure, but that even in success there is room for improvement.

-Kevin Winter

I thought the Ball was pretty decent, but there is room for improvement.

1. The overall space was rather small, I guess it's hard to get a nearby area big enough, but I felt that there was way too many people crammed into the room.

2. The lack of people who knew how to dance and wanted to learn how to dance. I know it's hard to restrict the ball to people who actually know how to dance, but it's ridiculous when people show up with no idea how and resort to parodies of what they see on TV. It's annoying when you get paired up with people who don't even know how to dance for the dance mixers! If you can't do foxtrot, then why the heck are you in the foxtrot mixer? I didn't wait in line to be walked across the dance floor! I second the notion of having another dance floors for people who just want to fool around.

3. Music Volume, it was way too loud. It was fine at first, but after a while I swear the volume went up 10 decibels.

4. Maybe more chairs? It was hard to find a place to sit and rest, and maybe a place where we can leave our belongings or jackets.

I really want to list an age limit as an improvement, but that would mean no adorable little girl. I just think that most of people running around and acting being a nuisance were under 16. I guess it'd be hard to enforce and not fair to younger fans, but it might just sent the tone that the ball isn't some sort of anime prom with freaking allowed.

I've been to Anime Central's, Sakura Con's, and Anime Expo's ballroom dances, and I must say, that Fanime is the best out of all the anime convention ballroom dances. Unlike high school proms and formals, this has a much more romantic feel to the type of music being played. You dress up pretty to dance pretty, not to dry hump to hip hop.

I'm glad they moved the event to the Fairmont. I really liked the venue this time around. I also liked the fact that water was finally being offered. Last year, we weren't allowed to have water (iirc).

I liked how dress code is enforced and encouraged. At Anime Expo, you can dress like a $3 hooker and still pass.

While I loved this dance, there is room for improvement. I would like to reinstate to lower the volume. When "Ageha Cho" went on, my ears almost popped off. Some of the music wasn't danceable at all and some song choices just made me want to groan. Can we PLEASE kill zombie Macarena? I'll take Rick Astley over that! (Never Gonna Give You Up / Together Forever = easily swingable) The swing and mambo tunes were great choices!

I was surprised this event went until 11PM. I'm used to anime con formal dances going only for two hours. I didn't mind. This event was a great way to end the night!

For the record, I was cosplaying as Chane LaForet from Baccano! Black dress / short hair, if anyone can remember that visual in a dimly lit room.

Thank you for improving this event and taking it to new heights. Loved the demo!

Can we also have a coat check in / bag check? Anime Expo's ballroom dance did that in 2005 (iirc). The staff would need to have a few volunteers for this. It would assure that personal belongings (coats and bags) would be safe and not be moved around.

Psuedo-Staffer Darryl, the short Chinese guy in the vest and almost always out of breath for being out of proper dance shape. I personally thought the event was great.  There were problems, but in general all the response I heard was really, really positive.

Problems:

1. The floor was a hazard by the end.  I talked to the guy laying down the floor before the dance started and he indicated that one of the problems was people dancing on the back portion of the floor before the entire floor was laid down.  This apparently caused the guideline he established to be crooked which lead to the uneveness of the floor in the front (which was laid last).  Also the panels in the front apparently were new and not the same type as the ones used in the back and stage left. Pre-dance the floor was servicable, but as the night went on, the gaps got bigger.  The solution is easy, make sure they do it right the next time.  It's not that complicated if they are left alone.  If it is...we should find another floor vender.

2. Music was sometimes a problem.  We all know the many many songs can be interpreted as different dances.  The line of salsa, cha cha, and swing if often blurred.  The problem I had was the lack of more "standard" tempo songs which leave less for interpretation.  Advanced dancers can dance to anything, but with a beginner group, you have to have songs that instantly are recognizable to a dance.

3. Viennese waltz is impossible in most venues without either very experienced dancers or rigid choreography.  The key is space. I believe that due to the size of the venue and the experience level of the average dancer, we should stay away from Viennese waltz, unless we do it as one of those waltz mixer.

4. People already commented about the volume.  I remember that many times I thought it was too loud, but never actually told anybody at the control booth.  I don't know why I didn't.  If it's too loud next year, I'll tell you in person.

5. The room needed much more air.  If we have that many bodies moving...we need more air.  Fans, air condition, air compressors manned by trigger-happy monkeys...something.  I still don't know how some people kept all their clothes on.

6. I think that we need at least one slow song for every two fast song.  There was a stretch which I almost died.  I think it was a mambo, then salsa, then cha cha, then swing, then crazy swing.  Yes I know I don't have to dance all of them, but when there are partners around...well, I have a hard time telling the members of the opposite sex "No".


Pros:
1. Dress code seems to hold pretty well.

2. Water!  God sent!

3. There were alot of people who were eager to dance, but either didn't make it to the lessons, or not completely confortable with their skills in a given dance.  I started giving quick impromptu lessons on the stage right side of the front which drew a tiny crowd. I think that everybody who tried it enjoyed it. I saw other people give quick lessons throughout the night.  Maybe we can something like that to get people involved during the dance, but take the pressure off the partnering aspects in the beginning so that people feel less intimidated. Something off the floor in the corner maybe.

4. I think the lessons are a great, great idea that everybody benefits from.  I was only able to make part of 1 lesson, but I hope that my staffing duties will allow me to make it to more of the classes.

5. Arm bands were genius.  This I think helps all the attendees identify the staffers quickly.  I don't remember if there was an announcement to the general audience on the siqnificance of the garters, but it might not hurt to do a "If you want some help and or want to try out a dance, find the guys with the garters" PSA every-so-often so the attendees know who to go to for assistance.

6. GOHs at the dance is a great boost. Getting to dance with Karen Dyer was awesome.  Eugene, next time don't grab me after I just finished a 4 dance set and was about to pass out to meet and dance with the lovely GOH.  Wait...I'll just build up some stamina.  Ric Meyers knows how to boogie.

All in all, think a very successful event with an overwhelming turnout.  We had a room at full capacity and a line out the door for an Ballroom Dance event which required people to leave the main convention area to attend! It was awesome meeting everybody.

Darryl Hwang
Cosplay

Quotehotel policy usually states that there is no outside food allowed so i guess the only way to change the prices on the food is for fanime to pay partially for some of it. everything else i pretty much agree with you

Hmmm, I didn't consider that. The pricing still upsets me.

QuoteFor me, the biggest worries came with how many people are, and how the amount of people to size of room ratio made it sometimes about as physically likely to be able to dance as it is likely for you to phase through a wall.

The music was also, if not "bad", definitely not appropriate to the theme of a formal dance.

Well, for the first part, I most definitely agree. I addressed it during the rules portion of the lessons, though as I mentioned earlier, rules needed to have been more strictly enforced. People should exercise proper judgment over whether it's safe to take a spot on the dance floor or if it is too crowded, thus meaning that they should wait until the floor clears up.

As for the second, the problem I had with the music, as I had mentioned earlier, was the type of dances they were labeled for. Timing determines the style. As for the theme, I have no problem. No offense, but people need to throw out the idea of what they see as a formal dance. My partner (Elizabeth, one of the other instructors) and I are serious ballroom competitors, so we are well familiar with what's played at both social ballroom parties and competitive ballroom competitions, and many people will be surprised to find more modernized music as opposed to classical. A ball can still be formal even with new-age music.

Of course, if we end up with straight up techno/trance music you would find at a rave, that's a whole different story.

QuoteI'm surprised the Fairmont was so sloppy about how they put it together.

QuoteActually, now that I think about it, I'm a bit curious why the ball wasn't held in the convention center?  Meeting Rooms J1-J3 seemed bigger than the Regency Ballroom, and the floor there was good for a standard portable floor.  (Much smoother, and better assembled.)

Agreed. While I wasn't pleased with the floor itself when I first saw it in the convention center, when I saw the floor in the Fairmont, I immediately determined that I would have preferred the floor that the lessons were held on over the actual floor. Like I said, hopefully we get a legitimate ballroom floor next year that actually GIVES into impact.

QuoteBy the by -- I didn't mind that some songs weren't painfully precise with their tempos -- being able to dance a bolero to a rumba is fine, since people who are new have it a little easier when practicing the rumba, and more advanced dancers can make the tempo work for whatever they choose to do just fine.

Partially agreeing. Slower does make for good practice, but when it gets to the point where a rumba is actually a Bolero (keep in mind that we taught American Rumba, not International Rumba. American Rumba is already fairly faster compared to International), dancing on-time becomes painfully difficult. Believe me, I intentionally practice my International Rumba at the Bolero speed and I would not want to have a complete beginner go through that. Same deal with the cha-cha. If it becomes too fast or too slow, attempting cha-cha makes no sense. People noticed I was doing salsa to faster songs even if they were labeled as cha-cha because there was no way I would be willing to force a beginner to move at a pace even I myself am not comfortable with. As for the sambas, I sat out completely as they were never taught and doing cha-cha so slowly would be uncomfortable to a beginner. (Note: for those who aren't aware, beginners have a tendency to want to keep moving as being comfortable with stillness during a dance is something that MUST be developed)

Quote
Clock-on Sunday when I was at the computer up on the stage I did not know if there was a set procedure of when we had to tell the instructors how much time they had left.  Generally I would start off at time at 15 minutes left, not always by shouting but by using hand signals until you noticed.  I know that might not have been enough.

Those indeed helped, but having a clock would have kept me on pace from the start and it would have helped the students as well as they'd be aware of how much time they were spending on a move, thus they would be able to gauge their own progress and ask for help if they feel they may fall behind (remember that I cannot move a class backwards even if one or two people really don't get a move. That is one of the downsides of group classes and I do feel regret if I'm not able to figure out how to help out lost individuals within a time constraint).

Quote2. The lack of people who knew how to dance and wanted to learn how to dance. I know it's hard to restrict the ball to people who actually know how to dance, but it's ridiculous when people show up with no idea how and resort to parodies of what they see on TV. It's annoying when you get paired up with people who don't even know how to dance for the dance mixers! If you can't do foxtrot, then why the heck are you in the foxtrot mixer? I didn't wait in line to be walked across the dance floor! I second the notion of having another dance floors for people who just want to fool around.

I'm glad someone else is speaking up about this as well. There's a problem when only about a third of the people attending the ball actually attended the classes beforehand and as I mentioned earlier, it seemed to be frustrating to those who worked hard during the classes. I'd also like to reiterate the point on how many people failed to follow the set etiquette: idling on the floor, goofing around and becoming potential hazards, being dishonest.

This is just an idea that some other staff/volunteers and I thought of: perhaps we could "encourage" people to attend lessons before attending the ball by creating admission tickets that con-goers can receive IF and ONLY IF they attend at least one of the lessons (where they shall receive these tickets at the end). Upon obtaining a ticket, they can use it to enter the ball (have it torn it half at the entrance, keeping the other half for re-entrance). This would help to ensure that con-goers have at least attended one of the lessons, thus knowing that particular dance and getting to hear about the rules and etiquette of the ball. We can't do much about dishonest people getting their hands on multiple admission tickets and handing them around, but I still find that this may likely be a progressive action.

QuoteI really want to list an age limit as an improvement, but that would mean no adorable little girl. I just think that most of people running around and acting being a nuisance were under 16. I guess it'd be hard to enforce and not fair to younger fans, but it might just sent the tone that the ball isn't some sort of anime prom with freaking allowed.

Personally, I disagree (but of course, I couldn't be on all parts of the floor at all times, so maybe I'm missing something). A lot of the people goofing around were around my age (19 for those who were curious). I did waltz with some of the younger people and they did just fine.

I don't judge dancing ability based on age. Here's a fun story: at the studio I train at most often, I'm very comfortable with being watched by other adult dancers or dancers my age, but I HATE dancing at the same time as little kids. Why? Because all the little kids I've seen can dance the crap out of myself and ALL of my friends and rivals in the dancing world. (two of these kids in particular have been featured on Dancing with the Stars during the junior competition of season 7.)

Moral of the story: Don't assume the kids are the ones that don't know what they're doing. Now, the idea that trained kids were at the ball last night is a bit of an exaggeration, but my recollections of dancing with younger students and doing just fine was surely not.

Quote3. Viennese waltz is impossible in most venues without either very experienced dancers or rigid choreography.  The key is space. I believe that due to the size of the venue and the experience level of the average dancer, we should stay away from Viennese waltz, unless we do it as one of those waltz mixer.

The usual procedure for Viennese Waltz (and Quickstep as well. We didn't have that this year, and with good reason....) is to have the MC restrict the amount of people on the floor at once and simply play two Viennese Waltz songs in a row. After the first one is done, everyone is booted off the floor while the second group is welcomed on. Of course, that still wouldn't work with the massive turnout we had this year, but it's something to at least consider.

Overall, I'm happy with the feedback so far; all of it has been within reason and people have given proper details in a clear and concise manner. Eagerly awaiting to read more.

QuotePartially agreeing. Slower does make for good practice, but when it gets to the point where a rumba is actually a Bolero (keep in mind that we taught American Rumba, not International Rumba. American Rumba is already fairly faster compared to International), dancing on-time becomes painfully difficult. Believe me, I intentionally practice my International Rumba at the Bolero speed and I would not want to have a complete beginner go through that. Same deal with the cha-cha. If it becomes too fast or too slow, attempting cha-cha makes no sense. People noticed I was doing salsa to faster songs even if they were labeled as cha-cha because there was no way I would be willing to force a beginner to move at a pace even I myself am not comfortable with. As for the sambas, I sat out completely as they were never taught and doing cha-cha so slowly would be uncomfortable to a beginner. (Note: for those who aren't aware, beginners have a tendency to want to keep moving as being comfortable with stillness during a dance is something that MUST be developed)

It does depend on the song.  It'd have to be a hybrid, where the tempo's just slow enough for the slowest dance, but fast enough that the other dances could still be danced.

That said, in my experience, for raw beginners, they usually prefer slower music so they can think about what they're doing.  They eat that extra time not by stretching their movement, but by half-pausing with each step to think about where the next one is.  I figured more people at the ball would be a raw beginner than someone who has about 1-6 months experience (at which point, the preference in tempo does change).

And, well, I compete rhythm, and I can tell you, I sure as heck prefer a slower tempo, even though that isn't what I get.  :)  [I want more time to milk my cuban motion!  :P]

man I left too early for the picture! I almost passed out, i was very tired and i had a huge blister on my foot!!!!

But next year! I want to instruct the east coast swing!

I thought it was a blast. I do however really regret not being able to make any of the dance classes held throughout the day. I had myself promising to myself that I would, but I was working day shifts, so I missed 90% of them, and the last one I wanted to go was right after my shift and my feet were dead tired by then.

But yeah, me and my friends had a ton of fun.

QuoteIt does depend on the song.  It'd have to be a hybrid, where the tempo's just slow enough for the slowest dance, but fast enough that the other dances could still be danced.

That said, in my experience, for raw beginners, they usually prefer slower music so they can think about what they're doing.  They eat that extra time not by stretching their movement, but by half-pausing with each step to think about where the next one is.  I figured more people at the ball would be a raw beginner than someone who has about 1-6 months experience (at which point, the preference in tempo does change).

And, well, I compete rhythm, and I can tell you, I sure as heck prefer a slower tempo, even though that isn't what I get.  :)  [I want more time to milk my cuban motion! :P]

Ah, I know who you are. I suppose that if that's what we're wanting to get out of beginners, I should mention it during lessons (i.e. "It is okay to stay still during a song"). With waltz and foxtrot, I did indeed address that it's okay to stop during the song and just contemplate the next pattern (taught them to sway in place during this. I'm pleased to find that a lot of people who attended the lesson got this), but with Rumba, when people were dancing the slower songs, they'd keep the tempo they were used to in the lessons (I used "Big Girls Don't Cry", 151 bpm, so fairly medium speed) rather than keeping time. Hopefully, taking a minute to talk about being okay with stillness may help a bit. I should devise another way to eat time. Yes, for dancers, cuban motion is definitely the way to go, but with the hour constraint, I definitely cannot train proper cuban motion. Maybe I can push for some kind of a Latin workshop next year. I'd be more than happy to teach that.

Oh yeah, one thing. For those who attended the Tango lesson, you should have gotten a taste of an Argentine Tango demo (a bit trickier to teach, a lot more relaxed to learn due to no line of dance, a hug instead of a dance frame, and room for improvisation). Make it very clear if you'd like to learn that next year! Also, for those who came to the final swing class, Elizabeth and I also did demos for West Coast Swing (nightclub style version of swing. Very linear, relaxed, and more appropriate for hiphop and R&B. Adaptable to many tempos) as well as Lindy Hop (hectic eight count swing. Very quick and energetic. If this is wanted, it would need to be an intermediate class so people can get their foundation in EC Swing first).

So make sure to include in your feedback whether or not you'd like Argentine Tango, WC Swing, or Lindy Hop! (for people who attended the classes and saw the demos or know for sure what the dances are)

Overall, I thought the Black and White Ball was good; but, there were a LOT of improvments that should be made for next year. I will try not to put too much on one subject since many people have already commented on the topics.

1. The Floor
The Floor was by far the biggest issue concerning injuries to guests at the Black and White Ball. The floor seperating during the dance was extremely dangerous to those who were wearing high heels. I almost got injured on the floor while doing a salsa when my heel almost got stuck in one of the gaps on the floor. Plus, at least half of the floor was sticky and unacceptable for those who were trying to dance the dances shown on the projector. Furthermore, the sticky floor caused much residue to build up on my dance shoes, which were not cheap to start off with. Overall, I agree mostly with everyone's comments on this topic. Not to mention, since the floor is not meant for dancing, many of the instructors/assistant's bodies were sore after days of working and being at the B&W Ball.

2. Music

The music playlist needs to be revised by all instructors and assistants ASAP!!! Many of the songs played during the Ball were mismatched to what was on the playlist. For example, Samba songs were being played as Salsa songs(Samba timing is a-1-a-2-a-3-a-4 while Salsa timing is 1,2,3,5,6,7, two completely different dances).For those who believe that songs are "open to interpretation", this is NOT always true. You cannot just pull a random heavy metal or rock song out of your butt and call it a Foxtrot. There are specific tempos for each dance that need to be followed. As an experienced ballroom dancer and competitor, I understand that some Tango songs can work for a Cha-Cha(the tempos can work together with some songs); but two dances with completely different tempos and timing(ex: Viennese Waltz and Rumba) CANNOT be danced to the same music! Plus, there are two songs from anime movies that would have worked beautifully as waltzes("Waltz of Chihiro" from "Spirited Away" and "The Wizard's Waltz" from "Howl's Moving Castle"), yet they were not played at the Ball. Also, why were dances such as Mambo on the playlist when it wasn't taught at the lessons? About the Rumba songs, they were WAY TOO slow. The tempos played for Rumba were either International Rumba(very different from it's American counterpart taught at the lessons) or a Bolero(an intermediate dance that takes much technique and control to master). Faster songs needed to be played because trying to do an American Rumba to an extremely slow song is painful for the beginning dancer who has not yet developed control of his/her movements.

3. Instructors/Assistants at B&W Ball and Lessons
Since not everyone at the Black and White Ball went to the lessons, an announcement should have been made that anyone with a white arm band was an instructor/assistant and could dance with anyone who did not have a partner. Also, some instructors/assistants did NOT show up for their assigned lessons! This resulted in other instructors/assistants taking over lessons and working more hours than needed! For those who did not show up, it is one matter to say that you want to assist/instruct at B&W Ball and another matter of actually being at the lessons. But if you do not show up, then please tell Eugene, Jim, or anyone else instructing/assisting that you cannot make it! Fortunately, there was one instructor who had the courtesy of notifying the staff about not being able to come to a lesson. To that person, thank you so much!

4. Food

No comment, because that is how dissapointed I was about this topic.

5. The Dancing

First of all, there were people on the inner portion AND the edge of the floor who were standing around in circles and talking to one another or going against line of dance.This is hazardous and dangerous to those who were trying to follow the line of dance. Because of this, those dancing in line of dance had to tell people to watch out or to get out of the way when dancing(Yes, people dancing in line of dance have the right-of-way over those standing there or not dancing in line of dance). Furthermore, as an experienced dancer, I felt insulted when people who didn't know the Tango tried their Hollywood interpretation of the dance(also known as charging across the room in a disorderly fashion and laughing at the same time) when there was an excellent Tango lesson taught on Sunday in the morning. Please, if you don't know how to do the dance, please do not make fun of it and ruin it for those who do know the dance and are trying to move across the room via line of dance. Tango is a dance that requires technique and much practice to master and is much more that charging across the room in a futile attempt to do what is called "The Promenade".

That is all I have to say about this topic in general. I hope that many improvements are made so that this event can get even better than it is now.

well since most of the pros and cons were stated and no need to be a broken record,

can we leave feedback here on the dance classes?

i thought the dance classes were awesome, and wished the ball could have been as awesome as the dance classes.

i didn't get to the ball at 6, but i think it would be awesome to have one last quick refresher class at the ball site before the ball started. like let's say at 5pm or so run through all the basic movements in case any of us, like myself forgot.

umm also would it be possible to hold dance classes on day zero? for those of us who really are enthuisastic about it.

and yes i want argentine tango next year.

you guys are all awesome. i'm so going to take more classes and show up in prime condition.

As an assitant/iinstructor myself I would like to hear comments about how the classes went.

-Kevin

Quoteumm also would it be possible to hold dance classes on day zero? for those of us who really are enthuisastic about it.

I'd be more than happy, though they'd have to be in the evening due to...

1. The floor will probably be set up during the day
2. I tend to have my last final exam on the day before the convention.

Elizabeth and I actually were there on Thursday evening and we actually did give out some instruction. (a few people were attempting waltz, but didn't quite have the footwork)

Glad people like Argentine Tango. I'll come up with a good way to teach it.

Also, if people want Disco Hustle to be taught during the regular classes, speak up. It seemed to be well received on Saturday.

well the dance classes i thought were awesome, i did feel thought that they seemed a bit short, like maybe if we had more practice time. because at the black and white ball i think my mind drew a blank. but i guess i can't expect much from a crash course.

but all in all i felt the classes were well done and very helpful. just wish i was a better student. ^_^

Hello, my name is Tyler Robertson. I was on Rovers staff working the B&W Ball on Sunday. I was mostly at the door to the room all night doing badge checks and trying to enforce the dress code policy (I was the one with the spiked up hair.)

First off, I just want to say that I really enjoyed working the B&W even though I didn't really have a chance to partake in the dancing. Everyone who attended looked wonderful and to me it seemed everyone was in a great mood smiley and having a fun time. However, here are some things I felt need to be improved by next year and also some neat ideas that I have.


1.) A much, much larger ballroom.
- If possible, one with a much larger dance floor and more tables and chairs as well.
- It was very crowded inside and at one point we Rovers had to hold off admission and form an entry line in order to control the inside.
- Getting around the room was at times a battle.
- The dance floor was so crowded that people were dancing off the floor and in the nearby walk ways and open areas. I almost got hit a few times while making my rounds around the outside of the room.
- Maybe something as large as Ballroom J at the SJCC? Possibly larger? We had a very rough estimate of 2,000-3,000 people attend. I don't think the room was built for that, but props to B&W organizers for getting that many people interested in showing up.
- I do like that it is NOT in the SJCC though. This makes it so that for the most part only those serious about coming to the B&W Ball show up.



2.) The floor.
- From what I had heard this was done by an outside contractor and the floor was put together from two or more different types of floor panels that were not normally made to combine. Everyone involved in B&W should know this was a huge issue and this will surely be resolved in next years B&W.
- Good job to the B&W organizers for getting an announcement out about the hazardous floor as soon as possible.



3.) A coat check and\or bag check.
- Working at the door I got asked if we had one a zillion times and I felt pretty bad for the folks who came with coats and bags not knowing there was no where to set them. I did hear we may have a coat check next year though?



4.) Signs.
- Maybe some signs pointing the way to the nearby Yamaga party and also signs showing the way to the restroom.
- I got asked about the restroom a zillion times too. Not really a huge issue. I did not mind pointing the way, but it would have made things a lot easier for our guests.
- Maybe also a large blown up sign listing the dress code near the door someplace? So if questions arise about their clothes and why we said it was not formal enough, we can just point them to the sign.



5.) Music choices.
- Old McDonald. Really? Really? :D I mean, it gave me a pretty good laugh and for fun a few of the Rovers and I started dancing at the door....but it is not a Ballroom Dancing song, lol.
- Kermit the frog?
- Chocobo song 3-4+ times. I am a huge FF fan and I know it was different version, but more then once or twice is overkill.
- The hardcore metal version of the Macarana? I give props for half the dance floor that actually remembered how to dance to it. It was too old for me to remember how to though.
- I agree with other posters about having music that actually suits a B&W Ball and the dance types that are planned for it.



6.) Food.
- Corn Dogs and Pizza. Formal B&W Ball and our patrons got served cheap greasy foods. I was very thankful that there was food though, but people had to pay for it. This causes an issue with #2 with females being forced to bring purses and then having no where to safely set them.
- An idea that I heard from some B&W attendees was maybe next year to have B&W formally catered. Rovers staff met a group of 20+ people outside on our way back to the hotel and they brought this up as an idea for next year. All of them stated they would have no quams with actually paying for tickets if it meant they had decent food awaiting them.



7.) A quieter area away from the loud music where people can rest and chat.
- Not sure who else noticed, but we had a ton of people lining the walls outside of the dance room due to a lack of a quiet resting area.
- Also many groups came outside just to stand around and talk. At times we had to clear crowds so that foot traffic wasn't being blocked.



8.) Sectioning off a part of the dance floor for serious dancers.
- Another poster mentioned issues and conflicts between people seriously dancing and others either making a mockery of dancing or not knowing the specific dance for the song. Maybe this can be resolved by roping off a portion of the floor for those who really know how to dance.



9.) Age limits.
- Someone listed an idea for an age limit. I don't agree with this, but I do have a better idea. Why not run the regular B&W till 11PM like normal and then clear out the room, clean it up, and run an age check for those 18+ or even 21+ and continue an adults only B&W into the wee hours? Not sure if that would fly, but it's just an idea.



10.) Dress code.
- You guys really need to read that BEFORE coming all the way over to the Fairmont. I felt bad letting in an entire group of people and having to turn away the one or two in the group not meeting dress code. Or having a guy come over with his girlfriend looking nice and dressed up and him trying to come in with his jeans and a t-shirt. So, if you plan to go next year, please do read the dress code carefully.



11.) Paid admission.
- This idea goes with #6. This should help get better food and people who are more serious about coming to B&W.
- Another addition to this idea is to offer lower admission prices to those who attended dance lessons.


Overall though, I had a great time and it looked like the majority of everyone enjoyed themselves too. I look forward to helping out at B&W next year as well.  ;D

Hey, name is Craig.  I was one of the assistance plus I wore the Brain Age sign as part of my cosplay while I dressed up as well.

I loved this event.  So many improvement in so many ways.

Dress code: I was assigned to check people's outfit just like last year.  I like the dress code enforcement except for the shoes part.  I would like to pass people who dressed really formal except for the shoes part like tennis shoes and sneakers but I had to follow that rule.  I had to tell people in line who are not dressed up at all and did not meet up wit the dress code requirement and was heart breaking for me.  But hey this is what you get from not "reading the fine print" for not dressing up.  Can't let you in man.

Dance floor: It was nice at first until the floor kept on splitting.  It was pretty scary that i had to move my other partner to the other side to be safe.  I liked to practice on the empty side so I can practice other style of dancing if i'm not familiar wit the song or the dance style.  So the only complaint i got was the floor splitted up and it was very unsafe.  Otherwise I can feel safe dancing anywhere.

Dance line:  People complained about the line at the ball last year.  But this year, it has been improved alot!  I checked outside in the middle of the ball and towards the end.  There's no more long line to get through!

Food:  Yeah the food is overpriced at the beginning.  But hey towards the end they went down a buck each.  Fair enough?

New location:  I've talked to few people who complained that the location is too far to walk to  from the convention.  I'd tell them its not that bad of a walk since and is like walking to jack in the box.  The area is sooo beautiful and the room is just perfect to held formal ball!  Trust me it's not that bad and it's worth the walk.

Dance line:  I thought that was such a great addition to the ball.  There are so many shy people out there that why not form a line and pair up wit a random person and dance towards the across the floor.

I read people's post about regarding V Waltz being not appropriate for the area I'm gonna have to disagree.  I've been to dance space and dance floors than B&W ball which was Peer's event and Dicken's fair plus they V waltz all the time including Polka and Mazurka!  Yeah the dance floow was like crumbling, but I think the room is just fine.  It would be nice to have a bigger room next year.

The whole white arm band was good idea.  Some girls came up to me and asked.  I think it would be nice to have more assistance and I would like to refer them to the people in white arm band for variety.

Thank you for everything that the B&W ball has to offer including as part of volunteer group.  I would like to thank Jim and Eugene for making this possible and making it even more better thanx to feedback.

Suggestions:
I was thinking about having few assistance or instructor have a meet up in the fountain to take the group to the Fairmont hotel.  So people doesn't have to go out and get lost.
Well next year i'm planning on giving mini lessons for those well dressed people who are planning on going to B&W ball but never took a lesson yet on my spare time.

Quote- Kermit the frog?

Ahahahahhaha!

Well, Rainbow Connection is actually a great song for waltz (I've actually used it myself for a performance earlier this year). It's certainly danceable, though I'll agree it's a bit out of place and the Sarah Mclachlan version is a lot nicer. (I know Kermit did the original, but the Sarah Mclachlan version has better instrumentals and it's also easier to dance to)

I love "Rainbow Connection".  It's a great waltz.  Slow with a pronounced beat and brings a smile to my face. Not the weirdest waltz I've danced too.  Oh, we should use Metallica's "Nothing Else Matters".  Awesome slow V. Waltz.

I still say that Viennese Waltz is a hazard if a line of dance (LOD) is not established.  This is kind of true for waltz, tango, and foxtrot were the basic steps require travel.  Swing, cha cha, salsa, and rumba can be danced in a more packed nightclub setting.  The trick will be to institute the traditional counterclockwise LOD. Not an easy task with the large and overly packed dance floor which we have on our hands. Maybe we should have announcements to force a LOD whenever a song which requires one starts.  We could have the instructor planted around the room to "remind" people to start moving in a counter clockwise direction.

I didn't really pay attention to the food being offered outside, but fried concession stand food isn't exactly in keeping with the B&W feel.  I don't believe that grease goes well with formal wear.  Well...except maybe some for the hair.

I understand the frustrations of many of the more experienced dancers with the antics of some attendees, but we have to remember that B&W Ball is an event which all Fanime member have the right to attend.  I would say that the idea of sectioning off a portion of the dance floor would give the wrong impression.  We don't want to walk down the slippery slope of segregating the membership.  This year was already a much improved dance compared to just even last year.  The conga lines were mercifully kept to at least songs that had a Caribbean beat. As for tango dancing, I agree that the dancers who decide on striking a pose and running in all directions in promenade was annoying, but if we want to lessen that impact, we need the LOD. At least then the running will be in the same direction.

Quote from: Drk-X on May 26, 2009, 04:19:26 PM

Quote- Kermit the frog?

Ahahahahhaha!

Well, Rainbow Connection is actually a great song for waltz (I've actually used it myself for a performance earlier this year). It's certainly danceable, though I'll agree it's a bit out of place and the Sarah Mclachlan version is a lot nicer. (I know Kermit did the original, but the Sarah Mclachlan version has better instrumentals and it's also easier to dance to)

I gotta be honest, I couldn't hear the song that great...but I was there at the door and the song sounded a little funny. I stuck my head in to hear a little better and was like... "Is this??.....what the.... is this Kermit the Frog?!?!" :D

If it does fall under Waltz, then sure go ahead and play it. It was just kinda weird for me, lol.

Quote from: darrylhw on May 26, 2009, 04:56:04 PM
Oh, we should use Metallica's "Nothing Else Matters".  Awesome slow V. Waltz.

Metallica is awesome, but come on... If you request people coming in serious formal attire, then you should play serious formal songs. If you want to play non-serious songs and weird stuff, then it should be a less serious dress code as well.

Maybe there should also be a normal dance. Like, a school dance type environment. Where you can play a variety of music. (Seperate from the Rave type dance.)

QuoteI still say that Viennese Waltz is a hazard if a line of dance (LOD) is not established.  This is kind of true for waltz, tango, and foxtrot were the basic steps require travel.  Swing, cha cha, salsa, and rumba can be danced in a more packed nightclub setting.  The trick will be to institute the traditional counterclockwise LOD. Not an easy task with the large and overly packed dance floor which we have on our hands. Maybe we should have announcements to force a LOD whenever a song which requires one starts.  We could have the instructor planted around the room to "remind" people to start moving in a counter clockwise direction.

Line of Dance was taught, but as mentioned, only one third of the attendees actually attended the ball (an estimate based on the total counts we got). Tango is the big one. Only one class meaning very few people had learned it. There was FAR more goofing off than legitimate tango during the tango songs, and as it was mentioned earlier, not only is it a hazard (especially to people following LOD), it can also be seen as a mockery.

QuoteIf it does fall under Waltz, then sure go ahead and play it. It was just kinda weird for me, lol.

Oh, it most definitely is. You may want to compare the different versions though.

Kermit the Frog (the original): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw6rNr1X-gY&feature=related (not official, but fairly close. The only official version I could find has been muted :/)
Sarah Maclachlan's cover: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4GBnpS83As

Hello everyone, Jim here. Just wanted to thank everyone for their feedback so far.  All your suggestions are being taken under serious consideration for next year.  I just wanted to respond to a few things myself.

1) Dance lessons

Good

- This year we had some really great dance instructors and they were right one with the dances.  Their time and energy helped make the BWBall a big success.  Thank you again to all the assistants for coming to help out.

Needs Work

- Commitment by the assistants.  Last year I was one of the instructors who taught lessons for the Con and was not pleased with teaching more than 4 hours in a row without a break.  This year I wanted to make sure that we go in enough lessons and had a good amount of quality instructors and assistants.  There was a lot of interest in becoming assistants but there were a good number of people who didn't show up.  I know there were a couple of people that had personal crises and that was conveyed to me and that was perfectly fine.  I just would like a bigger commitment from the assistants for next year if you decide to help out.

- Having a clock.  Reading the previous posts, having a clock to keep lessons running smooth and helping instructors stay on task is a great idea.  


2) Black and White Ball

Good

- Having the VIPs there was great! Great to see them there and it was awesome being able to dance with them! :D

- Attendance was great considering it was a little further away from the Convention Center than most other events.  I was glad to see that people made the trek over to come to the Black and White Ball.

- Attendees looked great! Looked like a lot of people were more aware of the dress code this year and everyone looked fabulous.

- Bigger Ballroom and Bigger Dance Floor.  Due to the interest from people who attended last year and the interest from people posting on forums, we knew we needed a bigger dance floor.  We put in for a bigger dance floor and it looked like it accommodated a good amount of people.  

- Water.  We wanted to make sure there was ample water for people who were dancing.  Looks like they were so that was good.

- Dance instructors and assistants were out in full force helping people dance.  Thank you again for all your time and energy.

- We tried something new this year with the demonstrations and the dance mixers.  It looks like they were both well received by everyone.  If you want more of the same things, post to the forum... let us know!  Remember, if you want changes to happen, the more feedback we get, the more likely they will be addressed for next year!  We can't do anything unless you speak up!

Needs work...

- Dance floor separating - The dance floor was ordered from an outside vendor.  The one that would have been provided by the Fairmont would have been significantly smaller than the one we had.  As for the floor separating, the BWBall staff was aware of it after the BWBall had gotten underway, but there was nothing we could do to get it back together.  It was a hazard to all the dancers on the floor and we will look into not having this type of incident to happen again next year.

- Venue being too small - It seems this event just gets bigger and bigger each year.  So we are glad to see the increase in attendance.  We do realize that there was not much room to sit and mingle because of the big dance floor and will look into what we can do about that next year.  There was some suggestions of having it back in the J.  We can look at that but please do remember the last time that we had that in there (last year) there was not enough circulation through the room and there was not enough water to go around.  Again all of these will be taken into consideration for next year.

- Music choice - Not everyone is going to like the music that is chosen.  With that said, there was a thread on forums about suggestions for music to be played at the Ball.  If you see the post up for next year's ball, please post your suggestions and (if you can) send us an mp3.  We had some good suggestions but sometimes we could not find the song.  I am hoping to have more input from Fanime goers for next year's BWBall.  

Also we were trying to stick with the theme of music from Anime, Jpop, or animated series... well trying to stay as close to that as possible this year.  With that said, it was sometimes difficult to find Ball music.  So, again, this is where your suggestions come into play.  We tried to get music people suggested, but again, sometimes that didn't work out.  Also, we wanted everyone to enjoy the ball.  So we chose a variety of music to get people out on the dance floor.  Most of the times it worked, sometimes it didn't.


3) Things to be considered for next year:

- Age restriction - Did anyone see the cute girl out on the dance floor during the mixer?!?!?!  Come on, with an age restriction we would not have seen that! I do understand why this was suggested but we want the Ball to be open to everyone who would like to attend.  We will see what we can do about this.

- Coat check - Something to take into consideration.  We will look to see if this is plausible with space, staff, and liability issues.

- Signs - "If you don't own it, don't tape it." We will look into see how we can better direct traffic.

-  Having two dance floors - It would be a great idea but again we have to look at the logistics of things and also the cost of doing that.  The other big problem is finding a place that can accommodate two dance floors. Also I do not want to segregate the Black and White Ball attendees.  We are all here to have a good time and sometimes it doesn't mesh well but I think everyone dealt with it pretty well.  Although the people trying to do the tango promenade and trying to be funny about it got a little out of hand and dangerous.

- Admission - Paid admission is an option and we will visit that later.  Not allowing people in if they have not been to a dance lesson, that is an idea but we also have to consider that people are coming to the convention to enjoy the festivities.  I would rather not force them to go to something and have them miss out on other events.  Also there are people who do know how to dance that do not need to take lessons and that would make it so they cannot come to the ball.  But your idea has been noted and we will consider it also.  

- Formalizing the event - I personally would like to keep the event fun so everyone has a good time.  However I have been made aware of the dangers of trying to dance and have things happen around you that may make it hazardous.  Conga lines, often fun but if you are snaking through the dance floor and people are really trying to dance, it can cause accidents.  Also the numbers of conga lines we had got to be a little much.  Dancing in circles with friends is fine but please remember to dance toward the center so people who are trying to move during the dance can do so freely around the outer edge of the dance floor.

That is it from me for right now.  Keep the feedback coming.  Remember, if we don't hear about it, we won't know to address it and try and fix it for next year.  In my personal opinion I saw that the Ball was a great success over the previous year.  There was a lot more interest and staff/assistants were awesome.  Bye for now.

- Jim
2009 BWBall 2nd

This is Elizabeth, one of the instructors. I forgot to mention that in my last post :P.

First of all, thank you to those who came to the lessons! My partner Dan and I were really excited to be here and eager to teach everyone how to dance Cha-Cha, Rumba, Salsa, and more(however, cha-cha and rumba,the latin dances, happen to be our specialty). The lessons this year seem like a HUGE improvement from last year. While I wasn't there, I heard the lessons didn't go so well.

For those who thought that the classes seemed a bit short: they were short because some classes went over time and other classes were made shorter because of this(having a clock in the room definitely would have helped.Also, on day 2, Ballroom J was unlocked later than usual causing us to go off schedule). Also, at most of the lessons, there were at least 30-40 people at one lesson. Therefore, it is extremely difficult to teach this many people who have little or no dance experience the basic step, an underarm turn, and another move of our choice(the basic and underarm turn were required to be taught) because not everybody catches on to one dance at a fast pace. As instructors, it is our job to get the basic steps and more to as many people as we can with the time constraints given. But hey, it could be that people were having so much fun that time passed by faster than usual.

As for the music, since I have heard some songs were not suitable for a formal dance, perhaps there could be a mix of formal and modern music at the ball that fits each dance. I believe the reason the modern music was there was to appeal to the younger crowd and keep them entertained to songs that were familiar to them. Not to mention, a lot of modern music works beautifully with the dances taught at the lessons.

About having a lesson or two on day zero: this sounds like a great idea. While Dan and I were there on day zero, without any notification, there was no way people were going to be able to figure out that instructors were there to help. So, for next year, perhaps we could have an open floor on day zero so people can meet the instructors/assistants and ask any questions about the B&W Ball and maybe get a lesson or two.
I understand someone mentioned having a refresher course on the dances taught before the ball. I would suggest that more people come to the open floor sessions if they had any questions regarding any dances taught. Perhaps we could have instructors/assistants not teaching beginner/intermediate lessons at this time be available to answer questions.
Please feel free to give more suggestions on how this event could be improved.
Thanks,
Elizabeth

Jim talking to someone I know after the dance he said that it was a little dark in the room and kind of hard to see other people that were dressed in dark colors on the dance floor.  I would kind of agree with him, it was at times hard to see some people who were dressed in dark colors on the dance floor.

-Kevin

The instructors for the Foxtrot on Sunday were freaking awesome. I loved how they were so precise.

As for the ball, the dance floor felt pretty crowded and I didn't like how people ran into you and then gave you dirty looks. Some bumping around is bound to happen, but no need to give attitude.

I wouldn't mind having paid admission for the ballroom dance. Anime Central does the same thing, but the money goes to charity. I believe the cost was a $10 admission into the dance. Usually those willing to pay are those willing to dress up nice and dance appropriately. The conga line did get annoying fast and claustrophobic.

As far as the food goes, we just ate at Johnny Rocket's right across the street!

More emphasis on the coat / bag check. I think I read something on cosplay.com about a girl loosing her glasses during the dance. I also had a friend loose her badge.

I wish I could have gone to the dance workshops, but there was so much going on. I'll make a point to check it out. Although I know the steps, it would be great to have a refresher course. Too bad there's not many social dances like Peers or Gaskells down in freakin' Los Angeles. No pun intended.

Assistant Darren here (Tuxedo, White Armband, Huge Camera, Raving Lunatic: Pick any 3)

I had an absolute blast at the dance! And judging from the smiling faces on the floor, I'm guessing that most of the people there did as well.

We should remember as we read the feedback that people are much more open to providing criticism than to praise.

And now, some of my thoughts, which have zero authority, credibility, and may go against the grain:

Mixers

Great! I had several people ask me "are there going to be more mixers?" We could probably do more than 2. And how about doing a snowball as well? ;)

Music

Some ups, some downs. I heard a few awesome songs I'd never heard before, and a few that made me go "huh?"

I agree that some of the songs were, er, "off" , but in all honesty, I've gone to ballroom dances where I've left after an hour because I didn't like the music the DJ was playing. Music is an intensely personal thing.

And to be fair, every email that we white-armband-ful-people received from the staff in the months leading up to the con included a line like "do you have any music we can use?" I know I didn't step up on this, even though I could have. I'll do better next year.

Volume

In the audio booth, we weren't in any speaker paths. Remember that in a room with hard walls, low frequency reflections are attenuated twice as much as high frequencies: Beware setting the volume based on the lows!  I'm not sure if the audio equipment was rented, scavenged, borrowed, or belongs to Fanime, but we really should have a compressor in the mix; just on the off-chance someone forgets the previous rule. :)

Hazards to Navigation and Line of Dance

I broke up or moved a few hazards in the first half of the evening with a few polite words like "Excuse me; could you please move off the floor / over to the corner / edge / center so you're not in the way?" Worked like a charm.

I mostly turned a blind eye in the second half unless the problem was egregious, because personally, I love it when things become more organic / raw / random later in the night.

Lessons

Well organized, well presented. Congrats to everyone who taught and assisted on doing a great job! Except me, of course - I suxx0r3d.  ;D

And as for the comment that "we should have a clock in the room;" let me tell you about this incredible invention called a watch. ;)

Dances

I said this last year, and I'm going to say it again this year: In my opinion, we should be teaching less dances, not more.

Those of us who have been dancing for a while tend to forget what our first few classes were like - having trouble remembering the steps for one dance, let alone eight; confusing the different dances with each other;  the sheer anxiety of asking someone to dance whilst worrying we're going to make a fool of ourselves.

Waltz and Swing: They'll get you through 90% of all the music you'll encounter as a casual dancer in the real world.

I'd suggest the mornings be "basics" (slow moving; basic steps 75%; one pattern) and the afternoon be "less basics" (a bit faster class pace; 40% basics review; three patterns.)  Do different self-contained patterns on each of the afternoons. Make the open floor an actual "practice floor" with review groups rather than new patterns or dances.

Admission / Age Limits / Dance Test

No. No. No. And, did I mention "No?"

In my opinion, this is not a ballroom dance - it's a dance at a convention where people may have taken some of the kindly provided ballroom dance lessons. Earlier in the evening, before we got totally jammed, there was enough room for people to try their new steps safely. Once the floor got packed, there's not much you can do: Beginners' don't have the floorcraft to move in those crowds; even very experienced dancers have difficulties.

And if we ever consider saying to someone "sorry, but your dance skills are not good enough - please leave the floor," then we've totally failed our mandate, because, in my opinion, the goal is to make it fun for the vast majority of the people while not making it too un-fun for the minority.

And if you read the above line and are thinking "Grrr, but when I was trying to transition from shadow telespin through promenade into pivots some n00b jerk blocked me," my response to you is the following: You could have gone to Starlight instead.

Cheers
Darren

I definitely agree that there should be no age limit to come to the Ball because anyone at any age can dance. Plus, people at all levels dancing together on one floor is perfectly fine with me, as long as the conga lines, people standing on the floor in large groups, and people charging around the room (which is rather dangerous to experienced and non-experienced dancers alike) does not get out of control. 
As for making a rule that one must take a lesson before the ball, this is something that we could "highly recommend" rather than enforce this rule upon guests at Fanime. Enforcing a rule like this would probably intimidate people rather than welcome them to this event.
For the mixers, perhaps there should have been a demonstration by instructors/assistants of what a mixer should look like and then let guests participate. I understand that Jim did this at a lesson, but not everyone who went to the Ball went to the lessons.
Other than that, I believe others have said what has needed to be said. That is all I have for now.
Thanks,
Elizabeth

Age limit?  Oh come on this event is for everyone!

Paid addmission for that?  I just paid 55 dollars for the weekend and that's not included?? Then why not make the rave charge the attendees just to attend the rave!  What a ripoff!  Keep it free for paying for the con itself!

Dance test? So what if I didn't go to the lesson cuz I already know how to dance and you won't let me in just cuz I didn't go to the lessons.  That's pretty ridiculous!

I'm sorry I don't think these would make improve B&W ball at all or what made it great.

QuoteAs for the ball, the dance floor felt pretty crowded and I didn't like how people ran into you and then gave you dirty looks. Some bumping around is bound to happen, but no need to give attitude.

Indeed. Some people obliged when I asked them to move off the floor instead of idling around, but a lot of people were very rude when I told them that they were being a hazard (once again, there is little to find amusing about charging across the floor in a hollywood tango hold). People don't care to take responsibility for their thoughtless actions until after someone gets hurt and I do not want to see that happen.

Quotelet me tell you about this incredible invention called a watch.

Poor and self-supporting college students have more things to pay for (like tuition or their car insurance) before paying for a watch. (I'm sorry, but that comment came off as condescending to me.... >.>)

i don't wanna quote everyone so this is my respond to the "admission" for the ball.
i think it would be a good idea under certain circumstances. i agree that everyone already paid a lot for the convention itself but if admission was something really small like $5 it may cut out the people that simply going because "it's free" (i was one of those people myself .__.;) heck even something as small as $3 would be fine. but definately anything $10+ might not be the best for the ball. someone suggested to have the money donated to charity which might be a good idea ^_^

i've seen complaints on music selection; not only because people didn't like the music but because more experienced dancers felt that the music selection didn't qualify for the dance it was for. maybe a suggestion for this is to have a few experienced dancers on staff for whoever is in charge of music choice for the ball?

i've read something about formal dinners? if you want that you may want to find another place besides fairmont because (from what i know) fairmont is the most expensive hotel in downtown san jose. i also know that plated dinners start at approximately $30+ tax. and you also need a guest list. i think if you are planning to have plated dinners then it would be the best time to have the "paid admission" maybe instead of plated dinners you can have hordevoures (excuse my spelling). although i know that those are a bit pricey too (~$3 to $6 per piece o.o)

as for experienced vs. beginning dancers. i agree what someone said, just because you're a beginner doesn't mean you aren't allowed on the dance floor. to best honest, i think even people that are just fooling around doing stupid parody dances have every right to dance than anyone else (even though i'm not fond of it.) i'm with the idea for having two dance floors although i already know that there are complications to that. i guess that's up to the upcoming staff to decide what to do ^^;;

umm i'll rant more later! :D

Quote from: idontknow on May 27, 2009, 12:32:14 AM
i don't wanna quote everyone so this is my respond to the "admission" for the ball.
i think it would be a good idea under certain circumstances. i agree that everyone already paid a lot for the convention itself but if admission was something really small like $5 it may cut out the people that simply going because "it's free" (i was one of those people myself .__.;) heck even something as small as $3 would be fine. but definately anything $10+ might not be the best for the ball. someone suggested to have the money donated to charity which might be a good idea ^_^

Well even though that price isn't that bad.  My main concern is if that event starts doing admission.  I think the other department like the rave would might want to do the same thing and so on if you guys did this and that means we might end up paying more in the future.  Donation for the B&W ball should be fine or sell other things like fans and flowers.

Quote from: idontknow on May 27, 2009, 12:32:14 AM
as for experienced vs. beginning dancers. i agree what someone said, just because you're a beginner doesn't mean you aren't allowed on the dance floor. to best honest, i think even people that are just fooling around doing stupid parody dances have every right to dance than anyone else (even though i'm not fond of it.) i'm with the idea for having two dance floors although i already know that there are complications to that. i guess that's up to the upcoming staff to decide what to do ^^;;

I think two separate dance floors sounds pretty fun and interesting except I might have hard time finding friends.

Ming-Sum here, one of the instructors.

I see that most of the issues have been addressed, so I will only add on to a few of them.  I believe that a separate floor would be discouraging to newer dancers who might feel they are not worthy of being on the "real" floor.  If we had a bigger floor, then there should be enough room for people who wants to do their own thing in the middle while still leaving enough room on the outer edge for people traveling in the line of dance.  Perhaps it could be marked in some way.  However, if people are just standing in the middle of the floor talking to friends, then we should ask them to get off, as that is a real hazard.

Also, if it's possible, it might be nice to have a poster with the rules printed to remind the attendees of the rules of conduct.  If we can get a boombox, we can just record ourselves reading them out and playing the recording over and over again for the people standing in line before going into the ballroom.  Hopefully this will make the evening more enjoyable for everyone.

Lastly, I would like to say thank you to the heads, instructors/assistants, and all of those who attended the ball.  It was a fun-filled night that I am sure most people enjoyed.

Hi Jim--

I have a little more feedback - I was thinking about it yesterday, and I really loved the demos.  Great way to pump up the crowd.  Maybe the demos could be followed by a mini lesson, where just the basic of the dance shown is taught off to the side of the floor.

(This, of course, would require ample space next to the floor -- I'm picturing Meeting Room J as an example.)


Also, about the lessons:

QuoteI said this last year, and I'm going to say it again this year: In my opinion, we should be teaching less dances, not more.

Those of us who have been dancing for a while tend to forget what our first few classes were like - having trouble remembering the steps for one dance, let alone eight; confusing the different dances with each other;  the sheer anxiety of asking someone to dance whilst worrying we're going to make a fool of ourselves.

I absolutely agree with the part about being a raw beginner.  I only have a few years of experience as a TA for a beginning dance class, but all of these observations are very accurate descriptions of what I saw.  (And felt myself, when I first started.)

But, I did like there was a wide variety of dances to learn.  I don't know if waltz and swing necessarily appeal to everyone.  Giving people options is good -- it's up to them whether they want to attend just one class, or all of them.

It also shows that Fanime is serious about trying to help people learn how to ballroom dance, if they want to give it a try, and that was the part that snagged my attention (and respect).


And...

QuoteAnd if you read the above line and are thinking "Grrr, but when I was trying to transition from shadow telespin through promenade into pivots some n00b jerk blocked me," my response to you is the following: You could have gone to Starlight instead.

Yes!  The goal should be to spread the love of ballroom dancing, not to expect the same experience as at a real studio.  If people want to, they'll go out and see what it's like for themselves.  I thought this was a great dance, and it let everyone have fun at their own level.

Sammi-Jo (or Samantha... not that it matters), another assistant turned instructor. I'll do my best to not beat a dead horse as it were when it comes to certain issues.

QuoteWe tried something new this year with the demonstrations and the dance mixers.  It looks like they were both well received by everyone.

1. I thought that the second mixer (Foxtrot) could have used a demonstration beforehand like we quickly showed for the waltz, that way people would at least know what it should look like before going on the dance floor and freezing.

Quotewe should be teaching less dances, not more.

2. I disagree. I think the variety of styles we taught brought in different crowds. If we limited what we were going through, I doubt as many people would show up. Besides, there were many people that I noticed kept coming back for different dances or even the same dance different days.



3. Here I go being a stickler for etiquette. There should be stricter rules when it comes to dancefloor etiquette. My apologies, but if you think that idling on the floor with your friends chatting is okay, you're mistaken. The conga line was, let's face it, intrusive. It was already a disproportionate dancefloor compared to the amount of attendees; the last thing we needed was a line of people shuffling across the area. I understand that there might be some dissent, but save the conga lines for the rave. Oooh! ORRRRR we could have a song specifically dedicated to making the entire dancefloor a conga line. Similar to how the dance styles were projected on the screen, we could just say "CONGA LINE!" and I'm sure it would be fun while not interrupting people trying to dance normally.

4. If we went with the ticket-at-lessons route, then we wouldn't have to announce what the white arm-bands mean. Also, for experienced dancers who don't need lessons, we're not jerks at the con. I'm sure if anyone made the effort to show up to Ballroom J and said "Hey y'all. I've been dancing this many years blahblahblah I've had lessons blahhhh" the reaction they'd get would be "Super duper! here's a ticket", and then they could leave and go to the con festivities.

5. I also gave a few impromptu lessons while at the dance. I didn't mind, and most people were quick to learn... but I'll admit I started to get irritated when everyone I partnered up with (who wasn't an instructor or assistant) would get on the floor and tell me they don't know anything. Yeah, I might be a mean person, but I also went to the ball to dance and enjoy myself... not to train every wallflower in basic techniques. It was sooo much easier to teach the people who had gone to at least one of the lessons the other dance styles because they had something to compare it to. "You remember that step from that dance you learned? Well here are the similarities, but this is what's different." So much easier. An hour out of the con won't kill you. Drop the controller for a spell, save your wallet from the Dealer's Room for a bit, and we all win.

A few quick NO's
+ age restrictions
+ crappy dancefloor
+ limits on what genre of music is played (this doesn't have anything to do with what dancestyle they'd apply to so long as they apply.
+ segregated dance floors. If we made attendance a bit less for "anyone", it wouldn't be an issue.

A few quick Yes's
+ Clocks. It's a formal ball. Watches just don't suit the attire more often than not. Outfits that do are few and far between (except pocketwatches! those are cool).
+ Projector with dance styles listed (regardless of whether the songs applied or not)
+ VIP's joining! how fun!
+ arm bands. If nothing else, I felt special.

Hello everyone! I'm glad that so many people had a wonderful time at this year's Black and White Ball. It's been an overwhelmingly positive response to everyone who's worked so hard on this event.

I'd like to address a few of the topics that were brought up.


Facilities
I read a suggestion about having the Ball at Ballroom J1-J3. We did this last year and there were major issues concerning line control as well as dress code. Because the Dance started right after the Ball last year, the dress code mix up was inevitable. This year, we wanted to separate the Black and White Ball from the Dance by giving the Ball its own location and a longer time frame. We are more than pleased with the Ball being at the Fairmont. It lent a very romantic and elegant air to the event.

I can't release the numbers for the event just yet but needless to say, more people came to the event than last year. That's amazing and we will definitely keep the suggestion for a bigger space in mind.


Food
As we had no control on what the Fairmont served, we will keep your feedback in mind and offer them suggestions for next year.


Flooring
The floor was a major concern and we will take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again. We want our attendees to be having fun and not worry about safety hazards other than bumping into each other on the dance floor.


Admission/Age Limit/Dance Test
I'm actually against this. This event is for all attendees, not a select few who meet the requirements (i.e. paid admission, dance test, age limit). This event was created with the purpose of it being something unique and fun to offer to the attendees. We offered ballroom lessons so that they can try out newly learned moves at a formal dance and gain a new interest.

I understand the frustrations of having too many people on the dance floor that are just lingering or not following the proper line of dance as well as not knowing how to dance and parodying certain moves. But many people are new to ballroom dancing and want to go to something that allows them to dress up elegantly and practice newly learned moves. I don't want to punish them for not knowing that they are being hazardous to other people dancing but we can consider other options in addressing this particular issue.


Lessons on Day Zero
Starting things off on Day Zero was a new experiment for FanimeCon. We wanted to give a small taste of the fun that was to come and it looked like it was highly successful.

The only thing about doing Dance lessons in the evening in Ballroom J is whether or not the room is set up in time and if there will be another event that night. Attendees don't really think about how much time it takes to set up a single room. They get to the convention, they get their badge, they go do things in rooms that are already opened for them to have fun. Behind the scenes, however, it takes a lot longer to set up and make sure everything is in place before allowing attendees to enter.


Thank you to everyone who's been giving us feedback and praise. We want to constantly improve and we can't do it without hearing it from our attendees and instructors. Many of the executive staff stopped by and had a wonderful time.

QuoteI understand the frustrations of having too many people on the dance floor that are just lingering or not following the proper line of dance as well as not knowing how to dance and parodying certain moves.

Well, for them to have fun with what they have is one thing, but being a hazard to others is another. Goofing around (I once again bring up the hollywood tango, which I was hit by a few times) can be detrimental to the efforts of other congoers who are trying to have fun. The line of dance's main purpose is ensuring a proper flow. Going against the flow can lead to nasty accidents that we certainly do not want to be liable for. As for idling, there's no reason it needs to be done on the dance floor.

Quotei've seen complaints on music selection; not only because people didn't like the music but because more experienced dancers felt that the music selection didn't qualify for the dance it was for. maybe a suggestion for this is to have a few experienced dancers on staff for whoever is in charge of music choice for the ball?

For music, we will indeed be paying more mind to the playlist for next year, so hopefully things will be better in that regard at the next ball.

-Dan

By reading the recent comments posted, I agree with most of them and can see their points of views. However, we have seemed to have forgotten to put safety first.

The arguments I have seen used most consistently is that of dancers of any level standing on the floor doing nothing being acceptable, conga lines being acceptable at any time, and people charging across the room being okay as long as they are having fun.

I understand that people come here to have a good time, meet new people,hang out with friends, and much more. But we REALLY need to put the safety of others first before saying "It's okay, they just want to have fun." when injuries could potentially happen.

Having a sticky and seperating floor did nothing to help the situation and made the fear of crashing into people who were and weren't dancing even worse.

Yes, injuries can happen when people get carefree on the dance floor and stop thinking about the others around them on a crowded dance floor.
People standing around on the floor who are not dancing are a bit of a hazard because they are at risk of being crashed into and may not know it since their backs may be facing a good portion of the people who are dancing.
People who are in a long conga line can be hazardous because they have the highest risk of crashing into people who are dancing in place, traveling, or not dancing at all on the floor.
People who are charging across the floor in their own fashion are hazardous because most of these people are going in the opposite direction. Because of this, the probability of crashing is much higher. Not to mention, because of the crowded floor itself, the chances of feet being stepped on are significantly higher and having one's feet stepped on by high heels or any heel on a dress shoe REALLY hurts! I know this because this has happened to me in the past!
Therefore, my take home message to everyone is: have a blast at the ball; but remember, we all need to remember that safety comes first!

Please feel free to make any more suggestions that you have concerning safety at the B&W Ball.

Thanks,
Elizabeth

Hi, Lillian here. For those who don't know/remember me, I would drop by with my friend, Christine and ended up being an assistant on Sunday.

First off, I want to say that I did have a lot of fun at the B&W ball. But perhaps that was more so because of the people I hung out with than the ball itself cause I didn't get to dance much.

I think pretty much all the concerns that I have have already been addressed here so I'll try not to be redundant.

I think the admission fee would work well for those who don't have a badge as long as they follow the rules. I know that some people would like to bring guests who don't attend Fanime to the ball. Of course, that would only work if we have a bigger place that can hold more people. I liked that the ball was at the Fairmont Hotel because it is very pretty there. Perhaps we can get one of the actually ballrooms there for next year?

I disagree with having less dances because obviously not everyone wants to learn the same dance as shown by different people who showed up for different lessons. If anything, we should offer more lessons and help people learn the dances they want to learn. Also, it would be nice if there was more time in between each lesson so that people can actually ask questions and clarification before the next lesson starts. That would also give the instructors a bit of a break. And I think there should also be more assistants who know what they're doing actually show up and help out. (Maybe Chris and Ryan can help out next year? That way we have people we know we can depend on.)

Oh and another thing that really bugged me, people jumping in the mixers without knowing how to dance. The mixers were fun and I think we should have more of them but not if people don't know what they are doing. The waltz one went okay but the foxtrot...I danced with two guys that didn't know what they were doing so I basically had to teach them right there just so we can get across the floor. That was not fun.

Other than that, I believe everything has been mentioned so I'll leave it at that.

well i do agree that less dances might be better than more, but can i still request that argentine tango be in there.

I disagree on opting for less dances. EC Swing, Rumba, Cha-cha, Waltz, Foxtrot, Tango, make up the core beginner dancers and are considered the staple must-haves. Salsa also gets thrown in there because it is immensely popular (especially in California), easy, and accessible.

Personally, I'd like to throw out Nightclub Two-Step in favor of Disco Hustle. The music seems to appeal to people more and it's very accessible to beginning dancers. The Disco Hustle beginner class seemed VERY well received on Saturday compared to the other open floor classes. It just seems so much more fun than two-step, which I consider to be a bit of a lazier dance.

Also, while the intro classes sound nice in theory, I didn't think they helped that much. People would have to learn the basic movements in the actual class anyway, so they might as well do so in a class set to give them enough to be able to perform the dance legitimately in a social environment as well as be able to focus on solely that dance style. If a taste is what we want to give people, just a visual demonstration would suffice. I could even prepare videos that could be linked to from the convention's website if people can't make the scheduled demos.

If we cut those, we gain two more hours, which could be used for the desired new dance (Argentine Tango seems to be winning so far).

I would like to see more intermediate dance lessons next year. I have learned the basic steps to the majority of the dances, but when I only know the basic step, a quarter turn and maybe a promenade, and not even an underarm turn, that isn't much for a 4 minute dance. (Props to our excellent dance instructors though since I realize there was time limit.)  I think there was only intermediate lessons for east coast swing, disco hustle, foxtrot, and salsa, and all those were offered at the same time so you had to choose which one you wanted.

Bigger dance floor would be cool. I couldn't keep with the line of dance as there was nowhere for me to move. ANd then a bunch of people were not even moving so if I tried to keep with the line of dance, I'd be weaving in and out of people creating more of a hazard. 

I was looking forward to getting to dance in the mixers, but then all 5 of my partners I had during the mixers did not know the dance. I do not know if it is dance etiquette to line up for a dance you don't know how to do, but maybe that is something that could be addressed or announced. Maybe you could have a mixer line of those who know the dance and a mixer line of those who don't know the dance. But then maybe that would just result in a bunch of people who don't know the dance clogging up the dance floor.

I really liked how the dance was 5 hours and then towards the end, it became less crowded as the less hardcore dancers fleeted out.

I'd love to offer intermediate patterns. There were a good number of students that I just LOVED teaching due to their enthusiasm and it's always good to award enthusiasm. The time restraints make it a bit difficult, but perhaps there can be something that can be done.

-Dan

Quote from: lilfry14 on May 27, 2009, 05:46:26 PM
I would like to see more intermediate dance lessons next year. I have learned the basic steps to the majority of the dances, but when I only know the basic step, a quarter turn and maybe a promenade, and not even an underarm turn, that isn't much for a 4 minute dance. (Props to our excellent dance instructors though since I realize there was time limit.)  I think there was only intermediate lessons for east coast swing, disco hustle, foxtrot, and salsa, and all those were offered at the same time so you had to choose which one you wanted.

I am happy to hear that people are interested in more intermediate lessons since the beginner patterns can get old pretty fast. Dan and I would be more than happy to teach more intermediate lessons. The only problem is where to fit them in since people seemed open to learning many different dances throughout the day. One option would be instead of having the "introduction to dance" lesson, we could have short video clips on the internet or at the con of what the dances look like and give a preview of what patterns would be taught.
Another point, with a class of 30 or more people(one East Coast Swing class had 118 students while a Waltz class had 92 students!), getting most of the class to understand the basic step of a dance is more difficult than one would think since everyone learns at a different pace(the lack of assistants at times didn't help either). Therefore, we really tried to get in as many moves as we could with the time given. If there was more time however, we would have been more than happy to teach more patterns to everyone :).

Hi Everybody!

First off, thanks to everyone who came!

I want to briefly address a few of the comments that have come up repeatedly.  I'll start with the flooring.

This year is the first time we've had to go with an outside vendor for the flooring.  We chose a vendor that was within our budget and were very disappointed with the flooring they provided.  It seems that they had to use 3 different floors to get the floor to the size we required.  With this came problems of alignment and connectivity.  While there was a minor issue during setup, it was very early on and they had plenty of time to correct the problem - which they did (or tried to anyway).  As the flooring got finished, we found that panels weren't lining up.  This wasn't actually due to a minor shift at the front, but rather a discrepancy in the size of the panels they were using.  We will be doing our best to make sure that we don't run into these particular issues again.

Music Choice: The idea behind the music for the ball is as follows; use as much Japanese music as possible from sources like anime, video games, and other Japanese artists.  Second to this comes using American and/or Latin music.  In addition, we try to find music that will be entertaining to the majority of the attendees.  I realize some of the music may have seemed out there somewhat (death metal macerena for example) but think about it this way: Did it make you laugh when you realized what it was?  Could you participate in the dance?  These are things we try to keep in mind as we work on the music.

Lessons: This year, we really tried to offer a wider variety with more experienced instructors.  I think we succeeded there.  A clock during the lessons is a great idea and we'll see what we can do about it for next year.  As to the styles we offered, we tried to choose a variety of styles that would appeal to the majority of people.  We will look at refining things for next year.

Etiquette: While we do go over basic etiquette at the lessons, not everyone can make them.  We will look into maybe having a large poster size version of both the dress code and the etiquette for next year.

Food/Drinks: This year, with the move to the Fairmont, we had the opportunity to offer both food and beverages for those in attendance.  We left the selection up to the hotel.  At first, things were rather pricey, but they soon realized that their price point was too high for those who were there.  They did eventually lower the prices and when I personally went out to get a soda, it only cost me $1.  I was amazed at how affordable it was.  If we stick with the Fairmont next year, we may be able to work with them more on the types of items offered and the prices they are offered at.  From what I understand, once they lowered the prices, they sold significantly more.

Size of the room: This year, we moved to the Regency ball room at the Fairmont.  The room was only slightly smaller than the full J at the convention center (only about 1-200 sq ft).  It also provided a more romantic feel to the event which wouldn't have been possible in the J.  The room was also in the range of 1/3 larger than last year's room.  I noticed how tight the floor was and we tried to implement some line control but due to the location of the ballroom, it was difficult to control the access to the room.  Next time, we may ask the hotel if the elevators can be programed to not stop on the second floor though I don't know how feasible that would be.  With the event growing as it is, we are again going to be looking at viable locations to hold it.  If we go back to the Fairmont, we will have to determine if we want to try for a larger room or, if we stay put, do we try to enforce line control and room capacity more fervently.  If we go elsewhere, where do we go and what challenges await us there are all things we will need to consider.

The Black and White Ball is an event that is constantly evolving and growing.  We are always looking at ways we can improve the ball to make it more fun for everyone.  Again, to reiterate what Jim posted earlier, we are always open to suggestions for music etc.  We do request though that if you want something put into consideration, please do try to send an mp3 along with the request, or at minimum, a link to the mp3 so we can download it ourselves.

Again, thank you all for all the feedback and keep it coming.  The ball, like Fanime, is by fans, for fans.  This means that while we ourselves are fans, we do it for you, the fans, as well.

ohayo minnasan~ ^_^ i made an account just to post feedback!

i thought that the all this year was great fun! it was a little bit crowded and i got hit a couple times and had my toes stepped on once. i agree that we should have a bigger room next year. but the room this year was still really pretty!

anyways, i don't think we should have an age limit, it's really not fair to the younger fans. and we also should have an entrance fee, we already pay so much for the con anyways.

anyways, i really don't see whats wrong with not everyone knowing how to ballroom dance. you can't expect everyone to know to to dance formally there. i had a lot of fun with my friends dancing normally. if people what to do ballroom dancing maybe they should just have some sort of ball room dancing event just for them instead of trying to make everyone else dance like them. the conga line was fun and people have only themselves to blame if they don't know how to get out of the way.

also you guys should make the dress code vey clear. you didn't mention anything about shoes and i had to get my parents to drop off more formal shoes before i went.

the music was loud and i didn't really agree with all the music selection. we should have more jpop or even kpop. that wou ld be really cool!

anyways, the ball was a blast this year, but did it really have to be so far away from the convention center? it's a long walk on tired feed espeecially if you've been walking around all day already.

oh yeah, we should also have more chairs. people kept sittin gin the chairs we claimed alreadu. it was really annoying so we should have more chairs.

Quotethe conga line was fun and people have only themselves to blame if they don't know how to get out of the way.

The rest of the feedback was fine, but once again, I must disagree here.

Safety is a huge concern and with the event being catered as a ballroom dance function (Black and White Ball... Ballroom Dance....), those are the set of rules and etiquette to be adhered to. There NEEDS to be flow and people SHOULD be mindful of the potential hazard they can be to people around them. Also, people have the right to have fun, but having your foot stepped on by high heels REALLY hurts. Fun? I think not. Painful? Oh yes, I would know. Even in a crowd of experienced ballroom dancers, accidents happen.

So unless you consider crashing into fellow congoers, having your dance path blocked by a wall of idling dancers paying no consideration to those around them, having your feet stepped on, having your face hit by somebody's flailing arms, or having people run into your knees (this DOES happen and it is a VERY serious problem; injured knees due to horsing around = Goodbye ball) as your idea of fun, I would put more thought into adhering to the proper etiquette. While we want the event to be enjoyable, your safety is also in our interest. If people get injured because of other people obstructing the path of other people's dances while goofing around, there is absolutely no excuse.

People who attended the lessons really worked hard on what they learned (and I mean that with utter sincerity. I greatly appreciated a lot of the enthusiasm and effort they put) and they deserve to be allowed to attend an event where they can be respected by their fellows instead of hindered by people that chose not to take time to learn things properly and diligently.

-Dan

P.S. Shoes were mentioned at the start of every single lesson. EVERY single lesson. I made sure of it. We even have video evidence. I don't know what was done outside of our lessons (which was all we were really responsible alongside being present at the ball), but you definitely should have heard it PLENTY of times in class.

I can answer a few things...

Quote from: fma4theworld on May 27, 2009, 09:26:08 PM
ohayo minnasan~ ^_^ i made an account just to post feedback!

I appreciate it, thanks!

Quotei thought that the all this year was great fun! it was a little bit crowded and i got hit a couple times and had my toes stepped on once. i agree that we should have a bigger room next year. but the room this year was still really pretty!

I think this is like the second largest room in downtown San Jose that's available for us. It's 8342 sq ft. The next one up is 13,464 sq ft, and is next door to that room. We're inquiring about it, but obviously it is subject to availability, and will cost an arm and a leg.

Quoteanyways, the ball was a blast this year, but did it really have to be so far away from the convention center? it's a long walk on tired feed espeecially if you've been walking around all day already.

As I said, the Fairmont is the only place available to us that can hold an event that size. (Well, there's like the dealer's room, but that's just not right.)

Quoteoh yeah, we should also have more chairs. people kept sittin gin the chairs we claimed alreadu. it was really annoying so we should have more chairs.

It may be possible!

Quick, related question...

What kind of... extra stuff would everyone be interested in? I noticed that the snacks and drinks were popular AFTER they lowered the price (the hotel realized this and really understands this now) but are there other things you would be interested in? Coat check? Photo booth?

I think dancing on cement like the dealers hall floor would be harder on my knees that a wooden floor like we had, even with some of the problems.

I am just going to point out here, my post was the things that I saw that could be looked at to work on, not always the parts that I enjoyed, which were many.

Quote from: fma4theworld on May 27, 2009, 09:26:08 PM
anyways, i really don't see whats wrong with not everyone knowing how to ballroom dance. you can't expect everyone to know to to dance formally there. i had a lot of fun with my friends dancing normally. if people what to do ballroom dancing maybe they should just have some sort of ball room dancing event just for them instead of trying to make everyone else dance like them. the conga line was fun and people have only themselves to blame if they don't know how to get out of the way.

I can see the point that is being made. However, I believe the topic is being misunderstood.  First of all,we do not expect everyone to know how to dance; that is what the lessons are for. The lessons are there to help people learn various types of ballroom dance. We want to share our knowledge and get people to appreciate ballroom dance. Second,we also DO NOT expect or force ANYONE to dance like us. The playlist on the projector was given so that guests could practice the moves learned in class if they wanted to. Guests had the option of following the playlist or dancing on their own, which was perfectly fine and added some variety and entertainment to the event.
The reason we mentioned the conga lines is because at the ball, while conga lines did look cool and seem fun to participate in, they got too big at times(one line took up the entire floor space) and were blocking the way of experienced AND non-experienced dancers alike. Thus, along with the dysfunctional floor(was sticky and fell apart during the ball, which can be a hazard to a lady wearing high heels because twisted ankles can occur), the take home message was to consider others at the ball and definitely put safety first! Not to mention, even for the most experienced dancer(even a professional), dancing through a conga line and/or a crowd of standing guests is very difficult and the dancer should not be solely blamed just because he/she couldn't get out of the way when there was little or no way out(Big group of standing people+big conga line+other dancers in place+other traveling dancers=A very difficult floor to navigate). Usually, multiple parties(this can include an experienced dancer, it happens all the time at competitions) are at fault for a bump or crash.
As for seperating experienced and non-experienced dancers, this would have been counter-productive and would reduce the number of potential dance partners by a huge number. Non-experienced dancers gain a lot of skill from dancing with an experienced dancer and vice versa. Believe it or not, teaching is a great way to improve dancing skills and helps one understand how the movements are done. Heck, we even got some people who didn't come to the lessons who wanted to learn a dance or two at the ball! We then gave them a one-on-one lesson in the dance that they wanted to learn. Now, if we had seperated those who had experience and those who had little experience, the instructors/assistants would have not have had the pleasure of dancing with new people and learning more each other and themselves and vice versa. Not to mention, there would have been no resources for guests to go to if they had any questions about patterns learned in classes.

Thank you,
Elizabeth

Quote from: Tony on May 27, 2009, 09:54:14 PM
Photo booth?

Well I already added in my 2 cents, but this would be a great addition as well!

Quotedid it really have to be so far away from the convention center? it's a long walk on tired feed espeecially if you've been walking around all day already.

Honestly, the Fairmount is two blocks away. It takes no longer than five minutes to walk there, and you wouldn't be dancing if your feet were so tired. The extra room (and extra swankiness) is worth those two blocks.



I agree with Elizabeth as far as the safety goes. I understand that some people just want to get all dolled up and dance however they want, but there are a lot of people attending and not hitting them should be a concern. I'm not saying "If you don't do the dance we want you to then get out of the ball!" That's just rude.

My earlier point about etiquette only applied to the safety concerns. Idling is hazardous not only to the dancers but to the idlers. Not to mention that, because of the crowds, idlers make it difficult for people who want to dance (in whatever formal/not-so-formal style they want) to fit on the floor. It's dangerous and pretty rude.


As for conga lines... while spontaneous ones have their appeal, an organized GINORMOUS conga line including all the attendees on the floor would be not only safer but more epic. Epic conga line... imagine it... you know you want one.  :)



Sammi-Jo

I had super-duper fun at the classes. My friend and I don't have much rhythm, but we did our best! I was the girl in the black and white dress during the ChaCha on Saturday and the Waltz on Saturday as well. Also I did the Swing class on Sunday, but my friend wasn't there with me. We are in the videos if you haven't seen them on YouTube yet! Maybe next year I will apply to be an instructor, or at least one of the helpful teacher-people-things! 8D

Micellaneous thoughts:

QuotePersonally, I'd like to throw out Nightclub Two-Step in favor of Disco Hustle.

This would be sad, because NC2S is such a great dance to teach people -- they can use it in lieu of the clutch-and-shuffle.  And, while hustle is a great dance and fun, NC2S (of the two dances) is a bit easier on girls who are wearing full ballgowns.

(Been there, tried that...)

QuoteThis year is the first time we've had to go with an outside vendor for the flooring.

Since there's talks for the venue to increase in size, this might be too expensive an option, but I've danced on these floors before and they are awesome: http://www.americanportabledancefloors.com/

(They are sooo smooth... and they have some nice flex to them, too.)

Another thought is that if the Fairmont would allow it, maybe a second (smaller) floor could be set up outside the Regency Ballroom?  There was that little area between the bathrooms and the elevators that could have held a small practice floor.  That'd be a great place for people to get impromptu lessons/hang out/etc.  It's less noisy, easier to see, etc.



Someone else mentioned maybe having a small ballroom dance party each night, like the way there's a Dance each night.  Maybe, the night before the B&W Ball, Meeting Room J could be opened in the late evening for an informal ballroom dance practice/party?  People who've been taking lessons can practice; people who are more experienced can stretch their legs; and the two groups can mingle without the danger or threat of a conga line.

(And it might satisfy the urge to dance enough so that if the B&W Ball is very crowded/crazy, it's not as big of a deal.)

Not sure how much that would cost, though.

-Sab

The coat check is something we tried at the first ball back in 2007 but removed due to liability concerns in 2008 and 2009.  With the demand being there, and I feel it is, I think we can revisit the idea and look into the feasibility.

Saebel, thanks for the link.  We'll look into it for next year.  We had another company that had something similar this year but they were unfortunately more than our budget allowed.  Something to remember is that Fanime doesn't have the big corporate sponsorship that other conventions have.  This means that for everything we do, from guests to events at the con, the money comes directly from you, the attendees.  So while we might want to spend more money on events or guests, we have to balance that against what is a reasonable amount to ask you to pay to attend the con.

A return of the coat check would be amazing. Lots of people set down their stuff at the edges of the room, and while I didn't see anyone who looked like they were stealing, I opted to carry all my things in a small wristlet, which got in the way while dancing. The coat check the first year of the dance made things much easier (plus, then I could check a sweater so I wouldn't freeze on the way back like I did this year, haha).


My thoughts on the ball:
Pros:
- Dance instructors wandering the dance floor. This was wonderful for those of us who could not/did not attend lessons and needed to brush up on dances/learn new dances. It certainly made me feel much more comfortable dancing knowing that there was someone who could help me.
- The screen with the type of dance. I'm not good enough at ballroom dancing/never have an opportunity to use my tiny bit of knowledge, so I can't tell what to dance when, so this was a big help.
- The location was amazing. Still a little crowded, but amazing. Beautiful setting, and it felt more spacious.
- Steady water supply for tired dancers. <3

Cons:
- It has already been addressed, but the flooring really help. My heel got stuck in a gap in the floor, and thankfully I didn't twist my ankle or anything (and a friend was within flailing distance so I managed to tap her on the shoulder and get some help with getting unstuck - I was afraid of breaking my heel off and/or twisting my ankle trying myself), but I'm sure that with all the problems, this will be improved next year.
- The music selection was fine, but I heard complaints of the suggested dance types being a little far-fetched and seemingly random at some points. I can't really personally comment on that or give any specific examples, but there were some complaints.
- Again, the music selection was fine, but the first hour or hour and a half seemed really slow, both in the activity level and the songs played. Lots of slow songs were used, and I noticed that whenver a slower song came on, most of the crowd shifted to the edges of the room. After that (I would say after the foxtrot mixer or so), when faster songs were being played, more of the crowd was on the dance floor instead of on the sides. Maybe mixing it up a bit more would be good, so there won't be long stretches of lots of people not dancing and then breaks in between higher-enegery dances.
- The tables scattered around the room were a good idea, but often ended up being taken over by a single group of friends. There really isn't much the staff can do about this, but I did feel a bit excluded from the tables and having a place to set down my drink while sitting because people claimed to have reserved the entire empty table for their friends so they didn't want me sitting there. It isn't really a big deal, just slightly annoying.


Overall, great improvements over the previous two years. I cannot wait to see what next year has in store. :D

Sound. Definitely. I could hear most of the music (though just barely) and was familiar enough with most of the tunes.. but I wasn't leading. My partner could hardly pick up the beat on most songs, and the volume seemed to fluctuate quite a bit depending on which part of the room you were in. It's extremely difficult to dance when the only half of your pair that knows how can't hear the beat. Additionally, he mentioned most of the suggested dances didn't really work with the music being played. I can't comment on that, though, not being a dancer.

Coat check would have been lovely. I kept my purse with me at all times, with my jacket tied to it, which kept wanting to fall off my arm and get in the way. I hope that the people attending the event are honest, but I have had my purse stolen before so I'm a bit paranoid.

Dress code. If you say you're going to enforce it, do it. Several of my friends wanted to go but were discouraged by the dress code.. but there were so many things in there that did not make me think about a formal ball. Blue face paint? Bandanas? Naruto headbands? I know it's Fanime, but girls running around in prom dresses and ninja headbands doesn't invoke visions of elegance here.

Floor. I don't know how many times I stumbled on that crack, got my shoe caught in it, or whatever. It wasn't safe and it really bothered me. The floor wasn't really big enough to stake a claim somewhere else and avoid it, so we got stuck there a while. I'd have to say that was one of the biggest contributing factors to us leaving early.

Two (point-five) items:

1) /me is a "dance n00b."  The lessons, though quick, seemed well aimed (at least for me), and the instructors (all of them) were gentle even when my brain periodically got full and couldn't absorb new instructions for a bit.   ;)

2) Dan kept mentioning/recommending a particular dance studio, I vaguely recall that they held events on alternating weekends (1st/3rd and 2nd/4th Fridays), and the instruction that we could email [Dan] for the address...Could someone post the address (or URL) for this info?  (I searched, honest, but I haven't found it yet...)   :-[

2.5) The cynic in me has to ask: Are the instructors affiliated with said dance studio?  (Not *necessarily* a problem, but I believe in full-disclosure.)


Thanks!
-Neil
Two-Left-Feet member #46168

Glad someone's interested.

The Dance Spectrum
1707 S. Bascom Ave
Campbell, CA

We are not affiliated with the studio. We simply recommend the parties that happen on the 2nd and 4th Fridays due to many reasons.

-The instructor is very nice and will gladly answer questions during the party. The entire family will love him.
-It's only $10 for the lesson (8:00 PM - 9:00 PM) and party (9:00 PM - 12:00 AM). Pretty good deal.
-They're beginner classes, so no prior experience is needed.
-They don't get too crowded, so you'll be able the attention you need.

I thought these conditions might appeal to most. The lessons provide a good learning atmosphere and some of the other instructors and I drop by half of the time. Let me know if anyone wants to know about other kinds of lessons and perhaps this will result in us having more able assistants for next year! :]

Quote from: Drk-X on May 29, 2009, 08:51:23 PM
The Dance Spectrum
1707 S. Bascom Ave
Campbell, CA

Ok, I'll hit them up for whatever other questions I've got.  <domo arigato gozimasu!>

-Neil
Two-Left-Feet member #46168

First off, I thought the ball was TONS of fun. It was honestly one of the highlights of the entire weekend, and I'm ever thankful I went.

Pros:
- Lessons. Very fun! I met a lot of new people, and the instructors were great.
- The ballroom was so beautiful. It just set such an amazing mood.
- Mixers. Also very fun.

Cons:
- It's been repeated over and over, but the floor. Just such a huge liability.
- The room got so cramped and small and hard to dance in by the end of the night. Someone mentioned that it's possible to get a bigger room but it costs an arm and a leg- maybe having a small admission price, like 4 dollars or something, could go towards renting a bigger room?

I personally didn't mind people not knowing the dance. If they didn't know it, I taught them; if I didn't know it, they taught me. It was simple and a great icebreaker. We ended up using the "sway somewhat awkwardly" technique they mentioned at the foxtrot class on sunday quite a bit. =P

but NO to the age limit. I'm fourteen and I've been looking forward to the ball all year. I would've been crushed if I couldn't go.

I liked it, it was actually one of my biggest high points of Fanime. ^^
The classes were really useful (even though I did forget... >.>;; ) and it was really good to go to because a lot of my dance partners at the ball were my partners for the lessons, I'm actually surprised they remembered me. ^^

Yeah, the floor... was really scary... >.>; Almost sprained my ankle in the little cracks...

And something about the dress code in general. After a while, no one really checked the dress code and the main page didn't really clarify what was acceptable and what wasn't. In any case, the main page made it kinda difficult to find the forums in the first place, which is where a lot of essential information is...

Hey guys!

I LOVED my time at the ball. And I know that most of my issues have been addressed already so I'll just lightly go through them and others.

Dress code: Naruto Headbands + formal attire. As ridiculous as it seems, the idea of the BW Ball at Anime Conventions was to showcase elegant cosplay and lots of creative interpretations of a character. I know that there was a VERY strict rule on shoes, and I snuck by with my jazz sneakers.. but I do believe that solid colored shoes should be allowed. I refused to wear heels (seeing how I was in male cosplay) and I don't have dress shoes suitable for dancing (nonetheless male ones). And sticky floors + suede = BAD. I'd rather go in some bowling shoes from the AMF nearby. I prefer to wear the comfies to dance, ESPECIALLY after only about 4 hours on that floor was KILLING me in my jazz sneakers. Craig! My server outfit was fine! XPPPP My apron makes me look sexy. And more square.

Dancing and Music: I AM AN AVID FAN OF METAL MACARENA. You will not hear it anywhere else, and I love it. And since it's played at the end of the night, WHY NOT? Esp not after the 4 swings, lindyhop, fast swing. I thought I was going to die. But I saw the lindy hop and couldn't resist the rest. ^.^

I am a terrible dancer. I will freely admit that after 15 years of trained dance. (yes, it's sad.) But I was a dance FAKER. I went out to the wallflowers and taught a little idea of the steps, and messed up the steps, but I believe all of my partners had a great time. I loved VWaltz, and I can usually only do it at DickensFair, on a much smaller floor. But even through all my blundering, no one got hurt, or hit too badly, because a good lead should ALWAYS watch their surroundings. "Oh crap.. everyone closed in... okay, on three, I'm going to lead you very fast to that open space right there. Try not to fall."

Also, VWaltz for space... it's not that hard to get on the mic and say "CounterClockwise PLOX!" I think. Conga Lines are terrible. I think we should ban them from BWBALL. I would only accept them for JumpInTheLine. BTW!!!!! Craig you owe me a Mazurka! I don't care if you're dead by the end of ball!

Foxtrot Mixer.... Straight lines? WTF? I watched Dan do it, but I was still confused and I apologized to my partners afterward. And evidently other people were confused, since they piled on the floor and did their own thing. I'm used to Foxtrot mixers counterclockwise... Perhaps diagonal next year? Compromise? AND MORE MIXERS!

I'm afraid I am one of your terrible complaints about people moving quickly across the floor. I love VWaltz and move accordingly, and I don't believe I can actually tango.. though I hope I wasn't as bad as the Hollywood StarStruck Tangoers. But as a terrible dancer dancing with beginners (and I did warn them I was a faker beforehand) I was able to dance to just about everything due to my lack of beat sense. I don't think that I hurt anyone or cut off a maneuver doing what I did though. SO NO DANCE TEST OR TICKETING!!! *I also happen to slave away at Registration... and not be able to go to any of said dance lessons*

BAG CHECK PLOX.

Dance Floor... we've heard enough. I was lucky enough that when I forgot.. (which was often...) I could lift my partner or maneuver away safely. Please Circulate the air!!! Yet another reason to have more VWaltz. Counterclockwise + Fast = Fan!!!! ^.^ lulz And sore feet. (but that didn't stop me from dancing til 4am! XD)

I half wish that more experienced dancers (ie instructors, Craig, vols) were more active in choosing beginner partners... Only because I live a fairytale fantasy where the amazing dancer comes to me out of nowhere and asks me to dance... a Prince Charming fairytale... I did it myself to create that fantasy for other girls. But I understand that you guys need a break and it's fun to dance with another experienced dancer. (I <3 a good lead... because I'm a terrible one. XD)

Yup. I think that is it for now... But Sunday night was MY night of Fanime. Let's do it again next year guys!

Wow, lots of feedback from everyone.  Thank you everyone so far for their comments and suggestions.  Just a few things:

Dance instructors and assistants - As I said before you were all awesome.  Someone asked if we learned from the same dance studio, the answer is no.  We all learned from various dance instructors and places and brought all of our experiences to the Con to be shared with all.  With that said, because we all came from different backgrounds and have our own style of teaching, I am glad to see that everyone was able to pick up steps and patterns and glad to see that everyone had a blast.  There has been interest from some of the instructors on teaching different styles of dances that we didn't teach this year.

Dances - Looks like there is interest in Argentine Tango. If there is more interest in it, we can see about putting an Argentine Tango lesson into the mix.  So keeps those requests coming if you want to see an Argentine Tango lesson.

Main complaints we will look at - Floor (too sticky and it separated), coat check, volume of music (it was too loud), music selection (not everyone cared for some of the music), food (this was provided by the Fairmont and we had no control over it), dress code (being enforced and explained better), bag check (having one) and dance floor etiquette.

Please remember though, the whole weekend is put on "By the fans, for the fans."  We just want to make sure that the BWBall is appealing to everyone and want to keep it open so everyone can come and enjoy the evening.  Again, thanks for all the feedback and keep it coming. :)

- Jim
2009 BWBall 2nd

QuoteFoxtrot Mixer.... Straight lines? WTF? I watched Dan do it, but I was still confused and I apologized to my partners afterward. And evidently other people were confused, since they piled on the floor and did their own thing. I'm used to Foxtrot mixers counterclockwise... Perhaps diagonal next year? Compromise? AND MORE MIXERS!

I think I remember you now. I actually was also more in favor of one lap around the floor in line of dance for the mixers rather than the straight line across as it would have allowed for more time on the floor and more fun with patterns, though I'm guessing one of the concerns was having the flow of dancers move fast enough. I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but roughly only one third of the people who showed up to the ball actually came to the lessons and who knows how many of them attended Foxtrot. As many people noticed, there was a massive issue of people in the mixer not knowing the dance, so that is one reason I can find for the way the mixers were done.

Something Elizabeth and I are going to be during this next year will be creating dance resources that will be open to the general public. We can have them linked to and people who express interest in the ball during their planning stages can have access to etiquette, some instructional videos, a suggestion list for songs they can practice to, proper tempos, and more.

Quote from: Drk-X on May 30, 2009, 11:57:46 AM
some instructional videos

If you need a quick start (or a placeholder), maybe you can use the YouTube footage: someone posted the first 5-10 minutes for each lesson type.  (No idea who it was though, in some of them the cameraman must've been standing directly in front of me in the middle of the floor, but the only photographers I ever saw were near the door or at the end of the stage opposite the D.J. booth.)

edit, 2009-05-30: De-mangled my quote blocks

This message is for people like me don't have a clue (read: "not Instructors").  I'm trying to put all the information in one place because it's easier than having it scattered all over.  And I tried to include all the information I myself wanted to know, so the information may be obvious to some people (read: "everybody"  ;) )

Quote from: Drk-X on May 29, 2009, 08:51:23 PM
The Dance Spectrum
1707 S. Bascom Ave
Campbell, CA

The studio website is <http://www.thedancespectrum.com (http://www.thedancespectrum.com)> and they have a calendar of events available (including the Friday evening lessons+party).

Additionally, the instructor has his own schedule online <http://www.swdance.com/current.htm (http://www.swdance.com/current.htm)> which shows (for example) that on June 8th the ballroom style will be Rumba, and the 22nd will be East Coast Swing.  (The websites disagree over whether the price is $12 or $15, I'll edit this post when I find out, but the guy at the desk told me $12...)

I'm told that the dress code is "comfortable shoes" but otherwise no special apparel is required ("jeans would be fine").  

At the time this post was written, the guy at the front desk said that normally they get 20-30 people to the Friday events, but the last few were larger at ~30.  (I warned him they may get an influx due to being mentioned at a convention in the area this past weekend.    ;D

-Neil
Two-Left-Feet member #46168, Region 6

edit 2009-05-31 - Strikeout wrong information

SelenDragon:  :o  Is that you Cynthia!?

Yeah since I was doing clothe check on the attendees I did have some slight problems telling if its okay to let them in so it would be nice ot have a backup wit me.

Quote from: neil on May 30, 2009, 05:42:06 PM
Additionally, the instructor has his own schedule online <http://www.swdance.com/current.htm (http://www.swdance.com/current.htm)> which shows (for example) that on June 8th the ballroom style will be Rumba, and the 22nd will be East Coast Swing.  (The websites disagree over whether the price is $12 or $15, I'll edit this post when I find out, but the guy at the desk told me $12...)

I'm told that the dress code is "comfortable shoes" but otherwise no special apparel is required ("jeans would be fine"). 

At the time this post was written, the guy at the front desk said that normally they get 20-30 people to the Friday events, but the last few were larger at ~30.  (I warned him they may get an influx due to being mentioned at a convention in the area this past weekend.    ;D

-Neil
Two-Left-Feet member #46168, Region 6.

Those dates you have listed are actually for May, not June. The Rumba party, Elizabeth and I were TAs for and has long past. The East Coast Swing lessons occurred during Day One of Fanime. I'll let you guys know what the next month's social dance parties will be as soon as I find out, but they should be held on the 12th and 26th. The lessons are only $10 for sure (never cost us any more than that). I dunno why they may be listed otherwise elsewhere. o.O

Also, I mentioned specifically to the salsa class that they may be interested in Hot Salsa Fridays hosted on the 1st and 3rd Fridays of every month. They're tons of fun and include a lesson, party, fun contest with small prizes, snacks, and more.

Dance Spectrum is definitely a great place to go. Jonathan Roberts and Anna Trebunskaya from Dancing with the Stars are both teachers there. Other places in the Bay Area that I'd personally like to recommend are Premier Ballroom in Fremont (especially for Waltz/Tango/Quickstep/Foxtrot/Viennese Waltz), Cheryl Burke Starlite Dance in Mountain View (owned by Cheryl Burke of Dancing with the Stars), and Dance Boulevard (formerly San Jose DanceSport) in South San Jose. If anyone ever wants to know more about ballroom dance, feel more than free to ask. I'm quite pleased that an interest in ballroom dance seems to have been sparked in quite a number of people. :D

Hopefully this may lead to a great amount of confident dancers at next year's event. :D

Quote from: Drk-X on May 31, 2009, 12:56:30 AM
Those dates you have listed are actually for May, not June. The Rumba party, Elizabeth and I were TAs for and has long past. The East Coast Swing lessons occurred during Day One of Fanime. I'll let you guys know what the next month's social dance parties will be as soon as I find out, but they should be held on the 12th and 26th. The lessons are only $10 for sure (never cost us any more than that). I dunno why they may be listed otherwise elsewhere. o.O

:-[  Thanks for the catch on the dates, the guy at the front desk told me Rhumba and EC Swing so I guess he was looking at the May calendar too.  (I used strikeout to the information you're saying is wrong from my previous post.)

According to their "Next Month" calendar <http://www.swdance.com/next.htm (http://www.swdance.com/next.htm)>, June should be Waltz on the 12th, and Two Step on the 26th.

I don't know what's the story with the cost, because I'm looking at their flyer and it says $12 and I asked several times about whether that was ($12/lesson + $12/party) or just $12/everything and he said $12/everything.  And their SWDance.com calendar says $15.  (I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying 'They're giving out inconsistent information.')


-Neil
Two-Left-Feet member #46168, Region 6

QuoteDance Spectrum is definitely a great place to go. Jonathan Roberts and Anna Trebunskaya from Dancing with the Stars are both teachers there. Other places in the Bay Area that I'd personally like to recommend are Premier Ballroom in Fremont (especially for Waltz/Tango/Quickstep/Foxtrot/Viennese Waltz), Cheryl Burke Starlite Dance in Mountain View (owned by Cheryl Burke of Dancing with the Stars), and Dance Boulevard (formerly San Jose DanceSport) in South San Jose. If anyone ever wants to know more about ballroom dance, feel more than free to ask. I'm quite pleased that an interest in ballroom dance seems to have been sparked in quite a number of people.

There's also the Allegro Ballroom in Emeryville (good for ballroom & latin dances), as well as a small studio in Oakland (Linden St. Dance) that offers free group classes on M, W, F, if you live in the East Bay.

If you live closer to SF, there's also the Imperial Ballroom in Redwood City.  San Jose, however, has the most ballroom studios in the Bay Area.


A couple of tips:

1) In general, try to avoid franchise ballrooms like Arthur Murray.  They tend to try to steer new students into contracts and large package deals, which tend to be very pricey.  (Or, if you do go, at least be aware that's what tends to happen.)  Non-franchise studios normally won't push you to take a ton of private lessons or anything -- you should be able to just drop in on group classes as you please.

2) I don't know if it was mentioned at the lessons, but there are two different styles of ballroom dancing taught in the US: International (Standard/Latin) and American (Smooth/Rhythm).  Usually American style is taught for social dancing, but international style is very popular on this coast, so you can't really go wrong with either.  Just FYI.

Please keep on the topic of feedback for the Black & White Ball. Discussions of dance studios and dance lessons not affiliated with the Black & White Ball should be discussed in a different thread.

Thanks.

Quote from: OniCourseMusha on May 31, 2009, 12:03:12 AM
Yeah since I was doing clothe check on the attendees I did have some slight problems telling if its okay to let them in so it would be nice ot have a backup wit me.

Rovers were handling the clothing check as far as I knew. You should not have had to worry about this as we were checking attire at the door and also vaguely in the lines before the doors opened.

Hi!
I definately enjoyed the lessons, they were quite fun, and very useful. And I really liked the Ball being at the Fairmont (despite the flooring) because entering the hotel already gave you that elegant vibe, and it set a good tone for the rest of the ball. Same with exiting. I think the Fairmont was a great choice, well, except for the flooring. That was a bit troublesome. But otherwise, I believe that the ball was wonderful. ^.^

Quote from: Liquid on June 01, 2009, 03:47:09 PM

Quote from: OniCourseMusha on May 31, 2009, 12:03:12 AM
Yeah since I was doing clothe check on the attendees I did have some slight problems telling if its okay to let them in so it would be nice ot have a backup wit me.

Rovers were handling the clothing check as far as I knew. You should not have had to worry about this as we were checking attire at the door and also vaguely in the lines before the doors opened.

Yeah I see.  I'm gonna do volunteer again next year.  In the past 2 B&W Ball I was assigned to check the clothes on the attandees while they lined up.

Quote from: OniCourseMusha on June 03, 2009, 08:51:02 PM

Quote from: Liquid on June 01, 2009, 03:47:09 PM

Quote from: OniCourseMusha on May 31, 2009, 12:03:12 AM
Yeah since I was doing clothe check on the attendees I did have some slight problems telling if its okay to let them in so it would be nice ot have a backup wit me.

Rovers were handling the clothing check as far as I knew. You should not have had to worry about this as we were checking attire at the door and also vaguely in the lines before the doors opened.

Yeah I see.  I'm gonna do volunteer again next year.  In the past 2 B&W Ball I was assigned to check the clothes on the attandees while they lined up.

Could you PM me who gave you that assignment? I think clarification of who is enforcing the dress code may be something we can improve on for next year.

Also it'd be good to clarify what is and is not acceptable.  In the beginning of the night we weren't allowing tennis shoes and the like but from what I recall, that was changed later in the evening in order to allow more people to attend.

A question - can a few dance lessons be held in the evenings at Fanime? I found myself not having any time to make it to the lessons, since I was caught up in cosplay business. However, I had a lot of time to kill in the evenings, and I noticed many other people did too. I know it may not be convenient for instructors, but how about a few lessons available for the night owls?

Quote from: LordMoufMouf on June 04, 2009, 01:46:03 PM
A question - can a few dance lessons be held in the evenings at Fanime? I found myself not having any time to make it to the lessons, since I was caught up in cosplay business. However, I had a lot of time to kill in the evenings, and I noticed many other people did too. I know it may not be convenient for instructors, but how about a few lessons available for the night owls?

The main reason why there were no evening lessons was due to the space being used for Dance (either setup or a few other things that were going on in there) on all the nights.

But we'll take your suggestion into consideration and see what we can do.

Thank you. I absolutely love dance (I do ballet), but as a cosplayer I found myself with rather little time to attend the lessons, since most of my outfits would not be suitable for the lessons, and getting in and out of cosplays takes a huge amount of time, since I have to restyle wigs and do makeup. I guess I'll just have to try harder to get some time to attend them next year.

And also if anyone spot me they are welcome to ask if they would like to learn how to Waltz, Swing, and other such.  I pretty much taught few people in my spare time.

If a location could be secured and a break for dinner be given, I would be more than happy to run evening classes.

I agree heartily about evening classes, although next year I'm making sure to attend the ones in the day when I can squeeze it into my schedule  :D

Quote from: trooper715 on June 04, 2009, 11:09:03 AM
Also it'd be good to clarify what is and is not acceptable.  In the beginning of the night we weren't allowing tennis shoes and the like but from what I recall, that was changed later in the evening in order to allow more people to attend.

This was rough because a majority of the male attendees were dressed really nice, but had on tennis shoes. They were nice tennis shoes that went well with the outfits though, so we usually let those people in. If we had not, there would have been a ton of guys turned away.

If they weren't nice shoes and not in good condition, they were turned away immediately.

I think that possibly the dress code should be modified next year to allow nice tennis shoes. From what I understand there are a lot of kids in the age group attending that collect and buy really nice expensive tennis shoes and usually that's all they wear.

What is and is not acceptable?

I know for a fact what I wore wasn't acceptable but that's the only thing I had at the time. I'll come prepared next year.
Nobody seemed to stop me, when I entered. :P

as far as shoes go, for guys, we really want people wearing nice, dress shoes.  barring that, a nice pair of sketchers (or similar) might be acceptable.  keep in mind that the idea here is for your outfit to be formal, and that includes shoes.  with the turnout we continue to have for the ball, we may have to look at enforcing the dress code more strictly.  this will mean a closer look at shoes and other articles of clothing.  for 2008 and 2009, the people checking the dress code were given some leeway as to shoes.  if someone was wearing solid, dark colored tennis shoes (including soles), and the shoes went well with the outfit (didn't stand out) and were in good condition, they were likely to be allowed in.  we did this in order to enable more people to attend. 

we will have work on having the dress code posted both on the forums and the website for next year.

Quote from: boots01 on June 09, 2009, 12:06:29 AM
we will have work on having the dress code posted both on the forums and the website for next year.

And a sign at the door? Yes? Please?  ;D

we actually have a sign but i forgot to have someone grab it before heading over the the fairmont >.< sorry

Quote from: boots01 on June 10, 2009, 02:47:54 PM
we actually have a sign but i forgot to have someone grab it before heading over the the fairmont >.< sorry

Oh, no problem. I really only had one big issue in which it coulda came in handy. A lady was trying to argue with me that she had read that formal attire was an option and not a requirement. She wouldn't believe me. Luckily one of the guys in our group had a copy of the rules in his pocket, but she was pissed, lol. (Really her own fault though for misreading the posted rules.)

^Do tell what she wore. I also thought the dress code was optional.

Quote from: DentyneIce408 on June 11, 2009, 09:22:13 AM
^Do tell what she wore. I also thought the dress code was optional.

I do not remember, however I vaguely remember the color red? So maybe a red shirt? It seemed to me that she was trying to get some younger guy inside (who had street clothes on: jeans and a t-shirt?) (She looked like someone's mom.) Was that guy you?

Nope, I wore a traditional kimono and wore sandals. But this two girls I went with including a friend said it was okay, as long as it was traditional. I even brought along a prop.  :P

But next year I'll properly dress up in the right attire. 

Quote from: DentyneIce408 on June 11, 2009, 07:10:29 PM
Nope, I wore a traditional kimono and wore sandals. But this two girls I went with including a friend said it was okay, as long as it was traditional. I even brought along a prop.  :P

But next year I'll properly dress up in the right attire. 

Yes, I believe it was said on the forums that Kimonos were approved attire.

My background:  Longtime West Coast Swing competitive dancer with many many conventions gone to, helped with, etc.  sometime instructor.  dance enthusiast in general.  

Wow, looks like I'm coming back to FanimeCon next year.  It's a far cry from getting my dance class getting scheduled and rescheduled until only three people appeared @ FanimeCon years back :P.  

Commenting on comments since I wasn't there this year.  Forgive my indulgence:

For an event with random people that demonstrates unique skill, you have to come up with a set of all encompassing rules and broadcast them as long and as often as possible.  This means etiquette, dress code, what have you being posted everywhere and staff enforcing it because guess what, you will always have people who blunder through.  Assuming most people who go to formal dances don't go there to derive fun from spoiling others', ignorance is the leading cause of the etiquette grumbling.

Dress code - People commend a strict dress code because it adds to the atmosphere and criticize it because it pretty much restricts the event to people who have the right outfit.  It depends on what the spirit of the ball is...whatever's decided, stick to it.  Mushiness begets blundering a la my previous comments.  

Dance floor - Any dance floor that's laid down on top of hotel carpet is not going to have any real give in of itself.  The hotel floor mountings are going to determine whether there's any give for knees.  If the carpet's mounted on the slab directly, kami-sama help us all. The floor that's used for WCS conventions typically consists of panels that fit together with no seams and with edges that blend in, as well as being waterproofed.  A floor gets sticky in a humid environment, i.e. lots of people sweating.  Any WCS routine/comp clips on youtube will show the floor.  Barring further developments, I think this is the perfect floor.  Here's the site:  http://www.americanportabledancefloors.com/about.shtml (http://www.americanportabledancefloors.com/about.shtml).  As for capacity, rule of thumb is that a dance floor at any time can accommodate three quarters of the people in the room.    

Food - Hotel contracts with events typically specify that outside food cannot be SOLD in the hotel.  Theoretically, unless the Fanimecon contracts person was seriously out to lunch that day, outside food CAN be brought in by the event.  We've had pizza parties as well as alcoholic get togethers at events sponsored by the event with no complaints by the hotel.  What does this mean?  Someone with a car, budget and Costco card can easily provide munchies under the aegis of event preference.

Dancers' needs - Fundamentally, water, air circulation and a place to relax are all you really need.  Of all those, air circulation's the most difficult to provide since hotels don't like running air conditioners in large rooms due to electricity expenses.  Unless you're in real good with the hotel facilities person, provide hand fans!  Advertisement and useful all in one!  Failing that, drag in a few high output fans if you're willing to sacrifice formality for comfort.

Classes to teach - I'm of the opinion that all partner dances are about the connection between partners.  It adds to the enjoyment of the dance to have good connection.  So, I'd like to see some sort of connection workshop for next year.

Music - The mantra: different people like different music.  Some scheme of getting instructors' lists of songs combined with a dancer appointed as filter for requests would probably minimize grumbling.

Quote from: Okach on July 01, 2009, 09:56:39 PM
Food - Hotel contracts with events typically specify that outside food cannot be SOLD in the hotel.  Theoretically, unless the Fanimecon contracts person was seriously out to lunch that day, outside food CAN be brought in by the event.  We've had pizza parties as well as alcoholic get togethers at events sponsored by the event with no complaints by the hotel.  What does this mean?  Someone with a car, budget and Costco card can easily provide munchies under the aegis of event preference.

While food and drink can be brought in to an event, the event will have to pay a corkage fee.  This fee can be extremely high depending on the location and what is being brought in.

Thanks for the clarification.  I believe that is possible, though, to waive the fee if there is a certain occupancy level reached by the event.  However, I realize that there probably isn't anything of the sort with the Fairmont...

Quote from: Okach on July 01, 2009, 09:56:39 PM
Barring further developments, I think this is the perfect floor.  Here's the site:  http://www.americanportabledancefloors.com/about.shtml (http://www.americanportabledancefloors.com/about.shtml).  

It's unfortunate that they only offer rental and installation in NY, NJ, and CT. We may look into a local renter that carries this particular type, but bear in mind that this year three different floors needed to be joined due to the size of our floor. We try to provide the best and most fun environment that we can, but are often limited by various constraints outside of our control.

Keep on throwing ideas out so that we may continue to improve our events!

Ah, that's if you were getting it directly from the factory.  Try out this guy: http://apdfloors.com/home/index.php and tell him that Alfred who does West Coast Swing said hi when you contact him.

And in the interest of full disclosure this is me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvHn_-V-DJQ

Quote from: LordMoufMouf on June 04, 2009, 08:12:11 PM
Thank you. I absolutely love dance (I do ballet), but as a cosplayer I found myself with rather little time to attend the lessons, since most of my outfits would not be suitable for the lessons, and getting in and out of cosplays takes a huge amount of time, since I have to restyle wigs and do makeup. I guess I'll just have to try harder to get some time to attend them next year.

You are not alone in this one ^^) I did not have the time to attend any of the lessons and would love to have something in the evening. Hopefully jemz can work on this. :)

I was only an observer at the ball this year but if anyone who teaches these dances would like to teach me then I'm game ;D The waltz would be a great start for me if that helps  :D .

OH MY GOD The Black and White ball was so gloriously wonderful!!  I'm a dreamer... the kind that thinks about gentlemen and ladies waltzing and being graceful and all that, and when I heard there was going to be a ball I think I screamed!  It far surpassed everything I expected-- The classes alone were enough to make me happier than I've ever been.  I didn't expect there to be any ballroom dancing at an anime convention, but there was!  Anime and dancing are the two things I live for!!!!!  To have had them both at the con still makes me smile every day!

SUGGESTION: split the ball.  have the first two or three hours be "strictly ballroom," in the sense that it can be open to people who took the classes or already know how to dance.  This way, people who are serious about ballroom can have their chance to have fun before the floor has a chance to split open or get sticky.  What was that sticky stuff anyways? 0_o  After the first two or three hours, they can have all the other people come.  This won't completely stave off those who think they can dance, but can't; but it should help.  In the schedule, they can put down that the first part is for ballroom dancing, and the second part is for everyone.  Hope this helps!!

It's a good suggestion, but it doesn't really solve the issue since there's still going to be issues with filtering the first few hours unless we have the ballroom police...which is subject to interpretation as to who is qualified for the "Strictly Ballroom" part of the dance.

Very true.  But granted, most of the people who were the problem last year (i.e. the ones who were standing in the middle of the dance floor talking, or just doing non-ballroom dancing) probably knew they weren't ballroom dancers and went for either the dressing-up part, the prom type dancing, or because their other non-ballroom dancing friends wanted them to go with them.  So if those people saw that the first couple hours were just for serious ballroom dancers, they'd probably understand and just come later when then can jump around and caramelldanse and stuff.  This would result in the first couple hours being at least less crowded, even though there will always be shenanigans.

Fair nuff.  I wasn't there, so I'm basing my opinion on previous dances.  I would say three hours would be adequate and depending on the time, would satisfy the hardcore dancers and let the randomers have dinner :).

Solved! ^__^

Haha, if only everything in life could be that simple.

We will take the splitting of the times into consideration for the Ball this year.  Please remember though this event is supposed to be for everyone to participate in.  There were a few things that we need to address from this past year's BWBall, but I also do think that there were some high points of the dance also.  As of right now we are still in the planning stages of things and we are taking all suggestions into consideration. 

- Jim
BWBall Head 2010

Actually, there is no enforcement policy in play for proficiency with the latest suggestion - it's more of an encouragement for the driven to be early birds.  After 9PM, it's more of a everybody into the pool thing.

Of course, it wouldn't exactly be too much overhead to do something like give some sort of pass out at all the classes (which are open to everyone) and just restrict the first few hours to classgoers.