2 minutes and half isn't enough for some of the groups. Other cons which are bigger than Fanime give almost 4 minutes and some even give more than that. It won't be that bad if you even give 5 minutes. Let's say that we have 60 groups, and that's 300 minutes which is 5 hours. What about just start Masquarade at 6 and ends at 11? That would work. Also, I don't think EVERY group need that long, since some of them might be used to the 2 minutes and half thing and just would have a short show. So the whole thing is less than 5 hours even with the 5-minute limit.
Anyway, I know that 5 minutes might sound a little unrealistic, but I think the limit should at least expand to 4 minutes. 3 minutes and half is the worst case.
Please consider.
miyakochiba
I get what you're saying. But some people might want to attend the whole thing, and 5 hours is a bit long to sit in one spot. I wasn't able to see it this past year (my first year at Fanime), so I don't really know what it was like, so I could be wrong. Maybe there are plenty of people who would love nothing more than to not move for 5 hours.
OK, in exchange for a longer set time per entry, then allow less entries to attend. :-\
In seriousness though, I think people really should make every effort to work within the time limit, and if they absolutely can't, to not go very much over it (15 to 30 seconds max, MAYBE). A lot of people don't understand that a longer skit does not necessarily make a BETTER skit, and next thing you know you have a bored audience and bored judges...and if you are looking to win, you really don't want the latter especially (because they are the ones who decide who gets the shiny trophies).
And I did a bit of quick research on your statement about "a lot of bigger cons are allowing four or even more minutes" SakuraCon does cut off at 4 minutes, but I don't know if I'd call it "bigger" than Fanime. Otakon also has four-minute maxes, but only for groups bigger than six. Five people or lower get 3 minutes. Katsucon allows 4 minutes, but requires at least 5 people.
However, Anime Expo (as of last year) cuts off audio at 1 minute for individuals and 2 for groups of all sizes. I know SDCC allows a 3 minute max, but you have to have at least six people or something like that. I think up to 5 you get 2:30, and below that the time limits get shorter unless you get it it approved by the Masquerade director. Even World Cosplay Summit (say what you will about it) has cut back their time limit to 2:30 for their 2011 competition guidelines, when for 2010 it was 3 minutes.
Nobody that I was able to find in this initial search is giving five minutes. And in my opinion, no one SHOULD. But don't take my opinion as gospel by any means ;)
longer skits will most likely mean less get to perform....
Also longer show runs into problems like with the venue and costs. Also bear in mind that rehearsals will be just that much longer, and Fanime needs that venue for things like AMVs and Musicfest.
Quote from: Dany on October 29, 2010, 01:52:55 PM
OK, in exchange for a longer set time per entry, then allow less entries to attend. :-\
In seriousness though, I think people really should make every effort to work within the time limit, and if they absolutely can't, to not go very much over it (15 to 30 seconds max, MAYBE). A lot of people don't understand that a longer skit does not necessarily make a BETTER skit, and next thing you know you have a bored audience and bored judges...and if you are looking to win, you really don't want the latter especially (because they are the ones who decide who gets the shiny trophies).
And I did a bit of quick research on your statement about "a lot of bigger cons are allowing four or even more minutes" SakuraCon does cut off at 4 minutes, but I don't know if I'd call it "bigger" than Fanime. Otakon also has four-minute maxes, but only for groups bigger than six. Five people or lower get 3 minutes. Katsucon allows 4 minutes, but requires at least 5 people.
However, Anime Expo (as of last year) cuts off audio at 1 minute for individuals and 2 for groups of all sizes. I know SDCC allows a 3 minute max, but you have to have at least six people or something like that. I think up to 5 you get 2:30, and below that the time limits get shorter unless you get it it approved by the Masquerade director. Even World Cosplay Summit (say what you will about it) has cut back their time limit to 2:30 for their 2011 competition guidelines, when for 2010 it was 3 minutes.
Nobody that I was able to find in this initial search is giving five minutes. And in my opinion, no one SHOULD. But don't take my opinion as gospel by any means ;)
Well, I really like the idea of how the time limit depends on the amount of people, and getting approved by the Masquerade director. Does Fanime do that?
you may want to get in touch with the masquerade staff but rules are rules for a reason.
in most cases, skits are meant to be performed in a reasonable time frame and the suggestion of 3 to 4min max is pretty generous for most standards... plus with a skit group of say 6+ more characters, your story kinda gets lost in translation.
skits are meant to be a quick entertaining stories with a beginning, middle and end. anything too long and you'll lose the crowd and the judges will consider it into how they rate you compared to other groups that can perform with the given rules set in place
---in my opinion--- unless you have a REALLY good reason why your skit needs to be longer than the current cut off time frame (and i dont think more people means a better skit, nor does it mean you deserve to have more time) the masquerade has always been about 3 hours long and in almost EVERY MASQUERADE to date for Fanime and the show always ends up running LONG... so asking people to sit thru a FIVE HOUR performance is pretty ridiculous... and as mentioned we have the civic center on a limited time basis for other events too.
so in other words - Short answer: 5 hour show = BAD idea. period.
if you really want longer your groiup Masquerade skit longer than suggested time period - get in touch with Masquerade staff and see if they can accommodate you. If not, a true performance group should be able work with the time limits they are give for entertaining epicness.
sometimes the best stuff is quick witted and gets to the point right away.
think about it this way COMMERCIALS are the best examples of a "quick skit" - usually 30 seconds and can have a 'cast' of a few to large groups of characters... would you sit thru a 5 minute commercial and then realize you didnt entertain the audience/judges? that would be all bad...
just some food for thought. :)
I don't believe that we will relax the rules for any group for the following reasons,
a) there is a time limit for the use of the Civic on Saturday.
b) there is a waiting list as long as the actual number of performances allowed.
c) we want as many people to have a chance to perform on the stage. Having a longer time limit prevents that.
If you have any further questions or suggestions, please feel free to email
[email protected] .
Quote from: miyakochiba on November 02, 2010, 08:25:17 PMWell, I really like the idea of how the time limit depends on the amount of people, and getting approved by the Masquerade director. Does Fanime do that?
Not currently. That isn't to say that couldn't change someday down the road, but even if it does, my personal guess would be that the time limits for solo/small group entries would go down a little, and that the 3 minute max would hold overall. But that's just my opinion :)
Quote from: ewu on October 29, 2010, 02:03:32 PM
longer skits will most likely mean less get to perform....
Also longer show runs into problems like with the venue and costs. Also bear in mind that rehearsals will be just that much longer, and Fanime needs that venue for things like AMVs and Musicfest.
Why Can't I thumbs up this post?!?
Seriously. You hit it right on the head
When I saw 5 hours my jaw almost dropped. Obviously, you don't have to stick around for the whole thing, but I would hate to be the last group going at the 5th hour because there'd probably be no one left to watch.
In my 7 years of attendance, I've yet to actually go to this event (I know, bad me) so I don't know exactly how it is run other than what I see from clips online. I figure it is like most stage performances, though, where you must reserve time to introduce and set up skits, which could take several minutes. That alone could divide your 60 performances down to 30, even with 5 hours. So for the most people to gain stage time, their skit times would have to be reduced.
Honestly, from the ones I've watched online from various cons, some of the best skits are the short ones, and some of the worst ones are long and painful.
Again, I do not know what the process they use to select acts is, but if it were run by me, I'd make people submit videos of their act and then weed the bad ones out and have a spectacular 2/3 hour show. Of course, this is probably a little too cold-hearted of an option for the fine staff at Fanime. :D
Quote from: MeowDesu on January 16, 2011, 09:38:53 PM
Again, I do not know what the process they use to select acts is, but if it were run by me, I'd make people submit videos of their act and then weed the bad ones out and have a spectacular 2/3 hour show. Of course, this is probably a little too cold-hearted of an option for the fine staff at Fanime. :D
There is at least one convention I can think of that prescreens its entries before they are allowed to go on. However, my understanding is that this is more to confirm the content is appropriate, not so much whether the skit is "good enough" to be onstage.
I wouldn't consider it unfair to consider having groups "audition" for slots. I just don't think it will be likely to happen because of the time investment involved in screening what could be a hundred entries and then trying to pick out the ones that will move on to perform. Fanime's current method, which is to take the first 50 groups to enter and backfill people who drop from those who enter afterwards, is actually the most common procedure I've seen used in masquerade, mostly because it's pretty efficient and poses no risk of being accused of preferential treatment.
The 2-3 minutes is really quite standard. And even that can feel like a lifetime when you're watching a skit that drags. Of those, I have seen plenty. I can't recall a single skit I've ever seen that made me think "Wow! I really could have gone for another minute or two of that!"
If you think of the skit as, say, a commercial or movie trailer or something, then it's plenty of time to get a message out there. Musical skits can always trim out verses or repeats of the chorus, comedic skits can trim the less funny parts and leave on a strong note, and dramatic skits... well, those are tricky and hard to make generalizations about, but you can always make cuts.
That's not to say I couldn't fill 5 or even 10 minutes with material; I've got some skit ideas, even scripts, that run way the hell too long right now. But I know there's superfluous material there that I can get rid of, it's just a matter of identifying it. Sometimes I get really attached to certain elements and need a fresh and impartial pair of eyes to look at it and tell me what's not working, but there's always something there that doesn't need to be. In general, 1 minute is actually a lot of time, and most things can (and sometimes should) be crammed into that time limit, but it's great when masqs give you some additional time to play with and expand on your idea. I generally aim for about 1:30 with my skits, no matter how much time the masq is willing to give me.
The real problem is that longer time limits generally make people think they need to use all the available time. Even some of the best ideas, stretched into 5 minutes, would get old. The audience doesn't need much time to get the gist of your skit, and if they like it, the remainder of the time can be fun, but you risk losing them. And if it's ultimately not to their taste, the remainder of the time can be torture. So it's probably best to minimize the remainder of that time.
Hi there,
I can only increase the time limit if we were to eliminate about 20 groups because I have an *extremely* fixed timeframe to work with.
If I had to start limiting groups by that much, we would have to start doing rehearals and probably doing what other conventions are starting to do: auditions.
Fanime is a con for fans, we don't want to have to do auditions and other stressful things.
I'd much rather get as many people in as we can so that everyone can have fun.
Unfortunately, that means we need to limit the time for each performance.
Fanime actually offers a much longer timeframe than most cons, for example AX only offers 2 minutes.
Thanks for your input.
Marisa
Masquerade Manager
Its bad enough the event runs three hours. If people can't work their skit within the given time limits than that's just too bad for them. If over 40 people can fit within the time limits, still do a great job, and even win rewards, then the limits shouldn't be changed and have the event last longer than it should for a accommodating a measly fraction of people. Seriously 3 hours is long enough and the skit time limits are just fine.
Keep in mind that cosplayers have better things to do then to have one entire day of a con be dedicated to one event when they have a bunch of other things to get to like guest panels and gatherings. Even if you dont attend the entire event, what if you end up being the last skit? That means you have to take time signing in, getting judged (assuming you're entering the costume judging), sit down and wait for the thing to start since masquerade contestants have to be there nearly an hour earlier than when it actually begins, leave to do other things and then come back to do your skit and then on the chance you win anything, you have to wait and sit for that as well.
Ridiculous.
Skits were always been meant to be short. Anything longer and you should:
- Apply for having your own panel, if possible.
- Post skits on YouTube and share it with friends.
- Apply for exhibition halftime shows, if they even let you.
Besides, for those wanting longer skits:
- Will you have the stamina and endurance to pull off a flawless skit? Practice and rehearsals included.
- Do you know that people only want to see the first 30 seconds of your skit to see if they like it or not? Remember, there's a lot of skits people have to go through, and having everyone go at the same long time desired isn't pleasant.
- Are you even prepared to setup the skit logistically to have it that long? i.e. Background props, walking time, etc? You don't want to drag a skit with filler content.
- Do you want to tire everyone else out?
Is there any way to extend the time limit for next year's masquerade for performances/skits to 3:30 or even 3 minutes?
Granted, keep the 2:30 limit for dance performances but such a time limit is really restrictive on large group cosplay skits...
mod edit: merged with existing topic
Quote from: slifertheskydragon on September 06, 2011, 11:42:03 PM
Is there any way to extend the time limit for next year's masquerade for performances/skits to 3:30 or even 3 minutes?
Granted, keep the 2:30 limit for dance performances but such a time limit is really restrictive on large group cosplay skits...
mod edit: merged with existing topic
I don't foresee it happening any time soon, not with the extremely limited time that Masquerade has to run. You increase the risk of having less slots available for performances, which means it can be harder for groups to get into the Masquerade (and people ar already waiting for those slots when the gate opens as it is). Plus, cutting down dance skits while letting other skits go longer isn't fair, and that's my opinion as a person who is not into dance-dominated skits*. I've seen skits run too long and too awkward on 3 minutes, let alone 3:30.
I'll throw in another thing to consider: The more/longer skits you have, the longer the contestants must wait, likely in uncomfortable gear that they cannot easily remove, for the rest of the groups to perform, and then wait more for the judges' results to come though. As someone who has competed, that can really make for some unhappy cosplayers.
If you want a longer option, an addition to the suggestions xxplizit provided, perhaps you can also apply to Stage Zero?
*dance skits without particular purpose, anyway. If the dance is relevant to the characters and I understand that? I'm a bit more able to roll with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz7lsPwbPHw
Yep. Because we all need this to run longer than it should. Really.
</pyronikari>
4 minutes is too long a GOOD skit is always about or less then two minutes. any longer, people start to lose interest. A good skit start and finishes strongly in a set amount of time. All the best skits ive seen have been about 2 minutes long (not counting comedy skits, as I judge those differently)
Quote from: Tsubasakissu on November 20, 2011, 04:53:28 PM
4 minutes is too long a GOOD skit is always about or less then two minutes. any longer, people start to lose interest.
It really depends on the skit, in my opinion. I have seen skits lose it at 15 to 30 secods, while others hold me for a full 3 minutes, or even a bit longer, all due to their execution. Whatever the length, a skit is at its best when it is well-written, rehearsed and well-acted by those involved so that people want to pay attention to it
(and this takes a lot of effort, speaking as someone who knows this and a broken funny bone are weaknesses for her group).It's about doing what you can with the time given to you..whether it is one minute or five...comedy or tragedy :)
But gearing back to the subject, even if we really -wanted- to expand the time limit, the time to expand is really not available unless you cut back the number of entries by...not a small amount, as Marisa said a few posts back. With that in mind, I'd prefer the shorter time because a) you have a chance to get a wider variety of entries in terms of sources and b) there is a quicker change-up from skit to skit that will keep the audience's attention.
I think having an extension is perfectly fine, seriously if people want to stay longer they have the option to and if they don't they can just leave but I agree that the groups don't have a lot of time to create something.
Quote from: Asagilover on January 23, 2012, 10:25:56 PM
I think having an extension is perfectly fine, seriously if people want to stay longer they have the option to and if they don't they can just leave but I agree that the groups don't have a lot of time to create something.
You are assuming FanimeCon has the option of running longer in the venue.
Having been in a few masquerades (skits in 2008 and 2009; we planned a skit in 2010 that didn't actually get performed), the only increase I could *possibly* see would be going up to 3 minutes for large groups (like, 8 or more). But 3 minutes max, and really 2:30 is fine. We did struggle with the time decrease in 2009 (10 person skit that year, 12 the previous), but we still managed to pull it off. The limit's reasonable. Most any skit can be distilled down. You'd be surprised at how long 2:30-3:00 is to the audience.
Keep in mind that in addition to the limits placed upon Fanime, there's also setup and take-down, as well as judging time. While actual skit time may be "only" 5 hours, you'd probably need to add *at least* one more for downtime. And if you were in 2009's masquerade, you'd know the setup and takedown time can be pretty insane.
Quote from: eralston on January 24, 2012, 11:31:28 AM
Quote from: Asagilover on January 23, 2012, 10:25:56 PM
I think having an extension is perfectly fine, seriously if people want to stay longer they have the option to and if they don't they can just leave but I agree that the groups don't have a lot of time to create something.
You are assuming FanimeCon has the option of running longer in the venue.
This is correct. As it has been stated before, we just can't have the masquerade go longer without having to remove other programming options (the biggest reason would be budgeting).
I elect removing registration...the con does not need that....its BORING! JK kids....load in and load out take a long time, and it gets ugly when you hit overtime and double time.....
Quote from: ewu on January 24, 2012, 09:34:38 PM
I elect removing registration...the con does not need that....its BORING! JK kids....load in and load out take a long time, and it gets ugly when you hit overtime and double time.....
I totally agree...on the time, not on the getting rid of reg XD. Every second counts, especially when the venue requires you to be OUT by a certain time...the longer you stay, the bigger the convention pays.
Something half-related, but not...the pre-masquerade show. While I think the shows have been pretty good, I must admit, they have seemed awfully -long- to me.. The first year I attended in 2010, I was a contestant, the second, I was just in the audience, and I felt the same way about both. I remember seeing that the reason that the performances are scheduled for pre-show is because it means that you have a "captive audience" since many leave after the performances and do not wait for the awards. But at the same time, you have people who show up in costume...some of those costumes being quite complex and hard to wear for long periods, and then they have to wait out the pre-show. Even if you're early in the running order, it's still strikes me as a challenge to sit through that.
I have two suggestions I'd like to throw out there for consideration:
1. Slightly shorten the pre-show. I am pretty sure it runs at least 45 minutes, but I could be wrong.
2. Split up the show between pre-show and halftime/judging. Say, 20 minutes pre-show and 20 minutes halftime, with maybe the AMV awards to stretch things out if the judges need time, or something that can easily be interrupted.
I am sure that I will be neenered for such a suggestion, but I figure it can't hurt to put it out there.
Quote from: Dany on January 25, 2012, 10:57:41 AMI am sure that I will be neenered for such a suggestion, but I figure it can't hurt to put it out there.
Not from this corner you won't! I remember feeling the same way about the preshow both times I went to Masq. You have a captive audience, but you also have an audience that's always seemed to me somewhat restless. By the time things roll around to the later skits, it already seems like they're antsy, and when you tack on the preshow to that, it certainly doesn't help.
(Granted, this doesn't relate to extending skit time -- which I don't think is something that should be done -- but since the topic's already been brought up ... ;) )
Quote from: Charis on January 27, 2012, 08:33:45 AM
Quote from: Dany on January 25, 2012, 10:57:41 AMI am sure that I will be neenered for such a suggestion, but I figure it can't hurt to put it out there.
Not from this corner you won't! I remember feeling the same way about the preshow both times I went to Masq. You have a captive audience, but you also have an audience that's always seemed to me somewhat restless. By the time things roll around to the later skits, it already seems like they're antsy, and when you tack on the preshow to that, it certainly doesn't help.
(Granted, this doesn't relate to extending skit time -- which I don't think is something that should be done -- but since the topic's already been brought up ... ;) )
You know, if one -wanted- to connect the two, it's possible. Shorter preshow means more time for entries, significant time if the preshow was completely eliminated. It could also mean less chance of running overtime on the venue, which makes the contestants happy because they can go back to the hotel and change sooner, it makes the audience happer because they can get back for later evening programming, and may even make Fanime happy because there's a better chance they will not be rushing against the clock to load out of the theater in time, therefore reducing, or even eliminating, overtime/doubletime fees.
But I'm with you, Charis; it's bad enough that the audience has a short attention span (I always describe masquerade audiences, no matter the event, as a room full of kindergarteners with bags of candy), don't make that attention span worse by sticking a long, unrelated performance in front of them.
I'm all for cutting down the running time of the pre-show... last year was exceptionally difficult to sit through, in my opinion, and not just because of the costume I was wearing.
But even if the masquerade could round up another hour or two of running time, I don't think I'd want that applied to skit time limits. I do honestly understand feeling like you need more time, and while I definitely have seen skits that entertained me for 4 or 5 minutes, I don't think I've ever seen a skit that really NEEDED that extra time. Music and dialogue can be cut, and I want to say in a lot of cases, they shouldn't stop at 2:30. In watching the skits I've done that ran over 2 minutes, I kind of regret not cutting them down further.
Try rehearsing the skit in advance in front of other people, or showing them a script, and get some feedback on where the slow bits are. What felt repetitive/dull/extraneous? What were the important/exciting/funny parts?
You don't need to fill a time limit. You just need to get the gist across and try to be entertaining in the process, and you should definitely be able to do that in two and a half minutes.