Is it just me, or did anybody else run into a Fanime Staff member who was on a power trip? I don't like to complain because everybody else was so helpful and seemed to truly love being at the Fanime. But this one guy was so rude that I almost yelled at him, which I never do! He was like a Nazi asking for papers or something. I really hope he doesn't volunteer for Fanime 2007!
What department was he in?
Quote from: Absolute0What department was he in?
Don't know. He yelled at me when I took a picture of him so I stayed away from him. Here's the picture though. He's standing in front of the girl in yellow and black, probably grilling her on whether she checked in correctly or something.
(https://forums.fanime.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi78.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj86%2Frufus-shinra%2F5282006551pm.jpg&hash=9e01185ad346880e8a5f8f3288923063b65b06d4)
Hmm.. Don't recognize him...
But, I hope you realize that we're not all like that...and these people work very hard w/out lots of rest, etc. Which can make them a bit (PFFT, more like PMSing) cranky. Of course, that's no excuse to take it out on congoers.
Ha, I know what you mean! This guy yelled at someone in line on Thursday while standing in line to get badges. It was for taking a picture of him too, which I thought was kind of dumb because it looked like he was in costume for something. Maybe he just doesn't like people taking pictures of him and he wouldn't be so rude if people would just ask.
Quote from: Absolute0Hmm.. Don't recognize him...
But, I hope you realize that we're not all like that...and these people work very hard w/out lots of rest, etc. Which can make them a bit (PFFT, more like PMSing) cranky. Of course, that's no excuse to take it out on congoers.
Yes, as I said most of the other staff members I met were real nice and helpful. I'm sorry if it sounded otherwise.
Quote from: Green_TeaHa, I know what you mean! This guy yelled at someone in line on Thursday while standing in line to get badges. It was for taking a picture of him too, which I thought was kind of dumb because it looked like he was in costume for something. Maybe he just doesn't like people taking pictures of him and he wouldn't be so rude if people would just ask.
Maybe you're right about the pictures. I didn't ask and I usually do, so I could forgive him for that. But giving my friend the once over didn't make me too happy and I saw him doing it to another person. Not the one in the picture though. As for the rest of the staff I met, they were really nice. ^-^ I'm not complaining about everybody you know!
I think I've seen that guy before, but I didn't see him doing anything so I can't say anything, though I've seen some negative things about him from a feedback thread after the con.
However I do hope that it doesn't destroy your image of the whole Fanime Staff crew. Let me tell you that if it ever happens again, just take the badge number of that staffer and turn it in to ConOps. The staff and volunteers exist to make the attendees' visit here more pleasant and safe.
Quote from: Green_TeaHa, I know what you mean! This guy yelled at someone in line on Thursday while standing in line to get badges. It was for taking a picture of him too, which I thought was kind of dumb because it looked like he was in costume for something. Maybe he just doesn't like people taking pictures of him and he wouldn't be so rude if people would just ask.
Do you know what time specifically? I might have heard the yelling, but I don't remember.
if you didn't ask permission to take a picture, then its natural to be pissed off.
it's your fault if you're gonna ask me.
imagine yourself, and another dude stalking you, and taking pictures without permission. who wouldn't be annoyed and pissed.
bottom line, whether it's staff, con-goer, guests, artists, and etc. be polite enough to ask them. and they'll return the favor of posing for you. :mrgreen:
I know him. ^_^
He happens to be one of the strictest staff members around, but I've never known him to get upset about something without merit. He's actually a really nice guy and renowned by staff for his massage skills!
Unfortunately, you really should have asked him before taking a snapshot...
Quote from: TonyI know him. ^_^
He happens to be one of the strictest staff members around, but I've never known him to get upset about something without merit. He's actually a really nice guy and renowned by staff for his massage skills!
Unfortunately, you really should have asked him before taking a snapshot...
That is why his "name" is Chaos/Khaos :P
Well not his real name but yeah.. this probally wont be the last time somebody complains about him -_-;;;.
Quote from: TonyI know him. ^_^
He happens to be one of the strictest staff members around, but I've never known him to get upset about something without merit. He's actually a really nice guy and renowned by staff for his massage skills!
Unfortunately, you really should have asked him before taking a snapshot...
Thanks. He really cut a handsome figure and I guess I should have asked first before taking his picture. My bad. ~`~ Anyway, didn't want to get anybody upset about this, just needed to unload and hear from others. It helps to know what's going on, you know?
I think I recognize him.He might be the same guy who my friend has had problems with.He had his weapon approved by con ops,then this guy nags at him that the sword should be fastened to his belt.Instead of explaining to my friend why this confusion happened,this staff member just goes on a speech about how he wrote the rules and how he enforces them.Ego trip indeed.
Quote from: GlitchI think I recognize him.He might be the same guy who my friend has had problems with.He had his weapon approved by con ops,then this guy nags at him that the sword should be fastened to his belt.Instead of explaining to my friend why this confusion happened,this staff member just goes on a speech about how he wrote the rules and how he enforces them.Ego trip indeed.
I think it is him, cause yeah I had my two bokkens approved by con ops and this guy just been rude to me even if I told him that I use them for posing but still he strapped them to my belt. I was pissed that day. Who is this guy? hopefully he doesn't show up again next year.
Quote from: ShinsengumiQuote from: GlitchI think I recognize him.He might be the same guy who my friend has had problems with.He had his weapon approved by con ops,then this guy nags at him that the sword should be fastened to his belt.Instead of explaining to my friend why this confusion happened,this staff member just goes on a speech about how he wrote the rules and how he enforces them.Ego trip indeed.
I think it is him, cause yeah I had my two bokkens approved by con ops and this guy just been rude to me even if I told him that I use them for posing but still he strapped them to my belt. I was pissed that day. Who is this guy? hopefully he doesn't show up again next year.
I hear you! I just wish that there was a place we could pull out our weapons (which we worked SOOO hard on!) and pose for pictures without getting in trouble by staff!! Waaah! Where's the fun in wearing our cool weapons strapped down where no one can see them? We might as well stop cosplaying! Isn't there something we can do about that? Anybody got any ideas???
Quote from: Rufus ShinraQuote from: ShinsengumiQuote from: GlitchI think I recognize him.He might be the same guy who my friend has had problems with.He had his weapon approved by con ops,then this guy nags at him that the sword should be fastened to his belt.Instead of explaining to my friend why this confusion happened,this staff member just goes on a speech about how he wrote the rules and how he enforces them.Ego trip indeed.
I think it is him, cause yeah I had my two bokkens approved by con ops and this guy just been rude to me even if I told him that I use them for posing but still he strapped them to my belt. I was pissed that day. Who is this guy? hopefully he doesn't show up again next year.
I hear you! I just wish that there was a place we could pull out our weapons (which we worked SOOO hard on!) and pose for pictures without getting in trouble by staff!! Waaah! Where's the fun in wearing our cool weapons strapped down where no one can see them? We might as well stop cosplaying! Isn't there something we can do about that? Anybody got any ideas???
What we need to do is show them how we pose with our weapons and to prove them that we don't do dumb things with it. And plus when I was cosplaying I ran into stuff members and they all checked my bokkens and they say ok as long as they see the tag around your weapons your ok but yeah that fool was just been rude even if I have them tag and approved by con ops.
Everyone has to remember that it's all a matter of safety. Chaos is known for making CERTAIN that whatever is tagged in the right place stays there even if other staff members say it may be alright in their opinion. Chaos has also worked many other conventions before as well as Fanime, so be aware that he may be picky about how a weapon may be tagged. He knows safety very well, so that's why the Fanime staff entrusted him with writing the rules.
As much as you want to retaliate against the staff in general, it's not worth your time. All of the staff including myself has to ensure that even though your weapon may look secure or tagged, that it isn't a farce no matter how much one may say, "Well the other staff it says it's ok!". If you have a problem with a certain staff member, get their name from their badge, go to Con Ops and let them know what is up.
Quote from: Rufus ShinraQuote from: ShinsengumiQuote from: GlitchI think I recognize him.He might be the same guy who my friend has had problems with.He had his weapon approved by con ops,then this guy nags at him that the sword should be fastened to his belt.Instead of explaining to my friend why this confusion happened,this staff member just goes on a speech about how he wrote the rules and how he enforces them.Ego trip indeed.
I think it is him, cause yeah I had my two bokkens approved by con ops and this guy just been rude to me even if I told him that I use them for posing but still he strapped them to my belt. I was pissed that day. Who is this guy? hopefully he doesn't show up again next year.
I hear you! I just wish that there was a place we could pull out our weapons (which we worked SOOO hard on!) and pose for pictures without getting in trouble by staff!! Waaah! Where's the fun in wearing our cool weapons strapped down where no one can see them? We might as well stop cosplaying! Isn't there something we can do about that? Anybody got any ideas???
I think that's a great idea! What if there was a designated space or something where we could have wepons out for posing and stuff, as long as no one got roudy.. then people would know to be careful around that area.. and if anyone was abusing it or doing something dangerous they could just get kicked out of the place or something? or not be allowed to carry the wepon?
I don't think we could ever allow it, even if it's supervised. Maybe especially if it's supervised. It all boils down to our liability, and that risks our insurance, and without insurance, Fanime doesn't happen...
Maybe out by the fountains? That might be out of Fanime's domain. I dunno.
But, if you're out of Fanime's hands, your safety is in your own hands...
Quote from: TonyI don't think we could ever allow it, even if it's supervised. Maybe especially if it's supervised.
Maybe out by the fountains? That might be out of Fanime's domain.
that's actually a good idea.. o.0 lol
Quote from: Shinsengumi...
I think it is him, cause yeah I had my two bokkens approved by con ops and this guy just been rude to me even if I told him that I use them for posing but still he strapped them to my belt.
.....
WHAT???Since when is strapping a prop to a person's belt considered standard practice?
Contrary to popular belief, staffers actually rarely go on "power trips". A lapse in judgement is much more common. I should know. :wink:
Quote from: astroboyQuote from: Shinsengumi...
I think it is him, cause yeah I had my two bokkens approved by con ops and this guy just been rude to me even if I told him that I use them for posing but still he strapped them to my belt.
.....
WHAT???
Since when is strapping a prop to a person's belt considered standard practice? There's an obvious inconsistency here. This can only be done to a person wearing a belt and also only with certain props.
There are few things that damages the credibility of a rule more then a lack of consistency. Personally I doubt such a rule existed. :wink:
If it is was me I'd firmly but politely say:
"I disagree with you. Lets both go to con ops NOW and get this situation resolved. I'll accept whatever decision management makes."
yeah the classic - I want to talk to your manager routine
BTW if the people at the top of the food chain...(errr chain of command) rules against you.....you're out of luck. If the security staff rejects your request to talk to management then just be a good sport and yield.
I heard a similar strap to the belt story: (you'll love this)
The cosplayer in question was a staffer
Want to guess what dept. this staffer worked for?
---- The cosplay/masquerade department!
Want to guess what position this staffer was?
---- One of the masquerade judges!
Anyways the masquerade judge didn't want to make a big deal so he decided to return his prop to his room.
Contrary to popular belief, staffers actually rarely go on "power trips". A lapse in judgement is much more common. I should know. :wink:
I have a question about props, if it's not too much trouble? As Rufus, I have a pistol that doesn't really look like one (I've tried to make it look as much like the one on Advent Children as I could) but maybe from a distance it might? I don't know. Anyway, how does staff decide whether to keep gun type weapons in the holster or allow them outside? Does ANY handheld weapon get the same treatment? I wasn't sure when I read the description for Fanime 2006???
Quote from: Rufus Shinra...
Anyway, how does staff decide whether to keep gun type weapons in the holster or allow them outside?
...
*disclaimer - I am NOT qualified to give official announcements*
http://www.fanime.com/2006/cosplay/weapons_policy.html
snippet
QuoteCarrying a weapon
All weapon pieces that are carried, either in hand or on/in a costume must be approved by appropriate convention personnel. Anything that looks like a real firearm or could hurt someone by accident (dulled metal swords, etc) can not be hand carried or slung over the shoulder. It must be able to be put into a holster or scabbard and peace bonded there.
Quote from: astroboyQuote from: Rufus Shinra...
Anyway, how does staff decide whether to keep gun type weapons in the holster or allow them outside?
...
*disclaimer - I am NOT qualified to give official announcements*
http://www.fanime.com/2006/cosplay/weapons_policy.html
snippet
QuoteCarrying a weapon
All weapon pieces that are carried, either in hand or on/in a costume must be approved by appropriate convention personnel. Anything that looks like a real firearm or could hurt someone by accident (dulled metal swords, etc) can not be hand carried or slung over the shoulder. It must be able to be put into a holster or scabbard and peace bonded there.
Yeah. Read that. Thanks for the reminder though. Guess the best way to find out is take my weapon next year and ask, huh? But it really is hard to go through all the trouble to make it look as authentic as possible only to find out you can't even take it out of the holster.TT_TT
Okay one problem I have is that there were times staff would tell us not to do stuff without telling us any reason, or be overly harsh. Although I've already complained to other staff about the ones that were assholes. It always seems like there's at least one or two asshole staff members.
I DO want to praise my friend Moogle-chan, I never heard any complaints about him and he was always nice.
I think the problem with staff is they forget...anime cons are NOT like sci-fi cons and other stuff. We're a crazier and stranger bunch. Not to mention it is US that they serve, not the hierchy of Fanime....but the congoers. WE should OWN them in a way really, because without us they are nothing. We can have cons without them, but they can't have their precious little jobs without us.
Quote from: Ayanami Rei First Child....
I think the problem with staff is they forget...anime cons are NOT like sci-fi cons and other stuff. We're a crazier and stranger bunch.
.....
hmm some people may disagree. I heard that the SWAT team was called into BayCon once. I'm not sure if that was true but it sure makes for good story telling. :D
Besides sci fi cons have Klingons! How can anything be more rowdy then a bunch of Klingons. :wink:
Quote from: astroboyQuote from: Ayanami Rei First Child....
I think the problem with staff is they forget...anime cons are NOT like sci-fi cons and other stuff. We're a crazier and stranger bunch.
.....
hmm some people may disagree. I heard that the SWAT team was called into BayCon once. I'm not sure if that was true but it sure makes for good story telling. :D
Besides sci fi cons have Klingons! How can anything be more rowdy then a bunch of Klingons. :wink:
Yow! Did the Klingons start a fight? You know how they are, all fight and no fun. :) But I do believe the anime fans are more varied and therefore WAY stranger! That's why I love anime. There's so many different characters to dress up as while the Trekkies only have a few. But I digress. I think we need to treat the staff with courtesy and I think they need to do the same for us.
I treated the staff with more courtesy then they would treat me a lot of times >.< I do my best to be nice to the staff and not bug them.
Quote from: Ayanami Rei First ChildIt always seems like there's at least one or two asshole staff members.
True. Senior staff can't really tell who's one or not until con, when their staffers are put under pressure. If there are complaints about the particular person, they are more likely not to come back.
Though, since we are an all volunteer staff, there are some things we can not ask of staff. But, I do believe basic customer service should be one that all of our staff know how to do and put into practice at the con.
If it bothers you enough, why not join staff and really show the a-holes how it's done?
Quote from: Ayanami Rei First ChildI DO want to praise my friend Moogle-chan, I never heard any complaints about him and he was always nice.
The rule, I hope, and the a-holes the exception.
Quote from: Ayanami Rei First Childanime cons are NOT like sci-fi cons and other stuff. We're a crazier and stranger bunch.
True, but I believe not because we're any crazier or stranger. The normal structure of a sci fi con is a bidded con (think World Con), where almost all anime cons are staffed year in and year out by the same people or are in a lineage with the original founders (Fanime's founders are still with us, in spirit). The structure influences the convention to a great deal.
Also, consider this: the average sci fi con-goer is at least 20-30 years older than the average anime con goer (think 35+ and 13-23). Different generation, different wants, needs, and expectations.
Maybe we are crazy and strange for our generation, but I also think that sci fi people are crazy/strange too for their own. It's more a question of relativity.
I'll give this to sci fi cons: they have elevator parties. We don't. I think that's crazy and strange.
Quote from: Ayanami Rei First ChildNot to mention it is US that they serve, not the hierchy of Fanime....but the congoers. WE should OWN them in a way really, because without us they are nothing. We can have cons without them, but they can't have their precious little jobs without us.
I wish all anime cons would realize that; if they did, we'd have more cons like Fanime. Some senior staff have related working for Fanime as "coming home" in a strange way. A lot of us have worked for different conventions (and still do), but when we started working for Fanime, we kept coming back like a moth drawn to a flame.
One of our higher ups said that one of the most amazing things about Fanime is that we are one of the largest fan run conventions in the world. By fan run, I mean the entire staff from the vols to the Con Chair to the board on ARG. It is an amazing thing when people who have a full time job, hobbies, obligations, school or whatever can come together and pull this off.
To tie it all in, yes, we will have some bad apples, but what apple tree doesn't? What matters is that we are all apart of Fanime for the ride, fans and staff alike. When you take away titles, you just have a bunch of people who get together because they like (or love) anime.
And, isn't that what our byline or motto means: "By Fans, For Fans"?
I've thought about becoming a staff type member, but I dunno if I'd enjoy it. I THOUGHT I'd enjoy working there, but that bombed out. I missed the freedom I had at the first con.
Well there weren't too many bad ones, and some were a lot nicer then others. Seriously though....one thing you guys should remind staff is to tell people WHY they're doing things. That simple thing can help out a lot, and make them look less like an athoritarian, and more like someone who's just doing their job.
I didn't know that all of your staff is volunteer, that's interesting. Although I can see how it'd be a lot harder to make the perfect staff team ^^;
Quote from: Ayanami Rei First ChildI've thought about becoming a staff type member, but I dunno if I'd enjoy it. I THOUGHT I'd enjoy working there, but that bombed out. I missed the freedom I had at the first con.
Well there weren't too many bad ones, and some were a lot nicer then others. Seriously though....one thing you guys should remind staff is to tell people WHY they're doing things. That simple thing can help out a lot, and make them look less like an athoritarian, and more like someone who's just doing their job.
I didn't know that all of your staff is volunteer, that's interesting. Although I can see how it'd be a lot harder to make the perfect staff team ^^;
Here! here!! I absolutely agree about staff explaining why they're doing things. I have to admit as a con-goer I get so caught up in the moment that I forget the rules and need to be reminded. If done courteously, it's not a problem. If done with an authoritarian attitude, it can make things very unpleasant.
Also, since I haven't said it before, three cheers for the hard working volunteer staff! I can't thank you guys enough for taking on a job even I would think twice about. I hope there are some perks for doing it. Maybe we con-goers could put on a party for the staffers? Probably a silly idea but I'd kinda like to see something like that happen, you know?
Yeah explaining why is important. Like on Saturday me and friends were standing on chairs to get people's attention for us getting them free hugs. On Sunday however....staff people were like "Dude you totally can't be doing that!" No one explained to us that those chairs have been known to collapse suddenly >.< They were just like "Follow what we say because we are staff!"
Or an even better idea....throw parties for returning staff people who have like 0-1 complaints or something. I dunno. I mean I don't think it's fair that someone who gets high complaints gets the same privledges as someone with a spotless record...
Quote from: Ayanami Rei First ChildYeah explaining why is important. Like on Saturday me and friends were standing on chairs to get people's attention for us getting them free hugs. On Sunday however....staff people were like "Dude you totally can't be doing that!" No one explained to us that those chairs have been known to collapse suddenly >.< They were just like "Follow what we say because we are staff!"
Or an even better idea....throw parties for returning staff people who have like 0-1 complaints or something. I dunno. I mean I don't think it's fair that someone who gets high complaints gets the same privledges as someone with a spotless record...
Good point!
Well obviously they were good points...I made them didn't I? :twisted:
Hrm. A bit late, but I wanted to add my 2 cents anyway.
I know that in a perfect world, everyone would get an explanation for every rule that's put into place. But it's not and sometimes there isn't time or the staffer doesn't have the patience to restate for the nth time why member should not do such and such. It's also exceedingly difficult to enforce rules and put up with backtalk from some of the attendees. We're trying to have the con run smoothly, and quite frankly that means that we have to be a-holes to get some things into people's heads.
We try our best and we are all utilizing our resources to put on a con for the attendees. So please try to bear with us. I know that I am ever grateful from the understanding members whenever the schedules were late last year (I'm working on things so the schedules will be out on time and will be more legible next year). Thank you again to those people who really want to help the con by offering constructive criticism.
There should be a 'safe place' to show off our weapons for posing. Flyers and banners should be up in the area as well, to let people know that there will be cosplayers with 'weapons' in the vicinity.
But still its a bit risky, becuase there is always one dumbass that will do something incredibly STUPID and the whole thing will be over. I say no to letting people pose with their weapons inside the convention grounds. The weapon should be secured safely and properly. It's for the safety of you and other people. You must understand that.
Though, posing with weapons a fair and considerable distance away from the traffic flow of con goers is fine with me. As I stated above, as long as there are makers/flyers and what not. People need to be told of these things, and staff has to actively communicate where the designated area is. Possibly have a few staff members watching over the area so someone doesn't walk into a katana or huge tessen or cross or something.
Maybe only a few groups can pose at a time?
Course, now we are getting into organization and scheduling. So I'll just drop the hat here and if any of you want me to keep going, lemme know.
Although the problem with that is just like those "Designated areas where con members can get their ties cut and pose next to staff to get pics. A staff member will then repeace bond" or whatever. What ended up happening with that? NOTHING. It's nice to TALK about this and Fanime may even say that they will, but things don't always go so well, ESPECIALLY during the first year.
Then maybe I should volunteer to be apart of the staff and "show how it's done." lol I really do have enough experience to work with people and be strict, yet still be very fun to be around.
Though, this does sound like an issue the staff should discuss and work with. (along with PR skills) I would love to be apart of the staff and handle some of these issues, becuase this seems to be a reaccurring debate every year. Unfortunately, I don't live near Sanjose anymore. I won't be back in the Bay until springtime...and i'll be in college.
Quote from: XpHoBiaXThough, this does sound like an issue the staff should discuss and work with. (along with PR skills) I would love to be apart of the staff and handle some of these issues, becuase this seems to be a reaccurring debate every year. Unfortunately, I don't live near Sanjose anymore. I won't be back in the Bay until springtime...and i'll be in college.
Go right ahead. Many of us staffers are high school/college students. It's really about time management and the amount of energy you're willing to dedicate to Fanime.
Actually, all of the department heads are either college students or work full-time. So if we can do it, you can do it too!
Besides since you're in college it SHOULD align perfectly with the end of summer....unless you have Friday and Sat classes.
Situations like this is actually more common than most people think.
It's obviously not an exaggeration to say that anime fans, like many other passionate enthusiasts of the world, is generally known to be more shy, quieter and not so great with their social skills. The "communication deficiency", if we must call it that, carries over when it comes to convention management, which is a relatively stressful job. It could simply due to the reason that a staff doesn't particularly have a interpersonal skills to relay his thoughts to other fans, and/or that he just got really stressed out.
Anime lovers, in general, are part of a younger age demographics. I don't particularly think younger = crazier, but puberty does equal rebellious and self-searching. The staff, many of them not much older than the con attendees, deal with the same issues, and going through the same phases in their lives. Conflicted inside, to say the least, may also been a factor for communication issues.
Of course, there are definitely those losers in life where they are completely unqualified to be in a management position. Being a convention staff may be the highest position they can ever get in their lives to have some control of something other than themselves. That usually leads them to act like a bunch of police academy rejects and think they can talk down to people because of a fancy walkie talkie they wear.
Fanime is still very new and very young. It'll take sometime to knock its kinks into places.
Yeah I can see SOME of where you're going...but if they're going to bitch at us for stuff, they should give LOGICAL reasons. Not to mention there's those staff members who act insanely strict. Playfighting with plastic swords is no reason to get FURIOUS and threaten to take away people's BADGES. That last part DEFINITELY crosses the line :evil:
There's also the fact that some staff members are a lot more lenient then others, which can also make things worse. So like some Staff will watch you doing stuff and think it's alright...while others will get harsh about it...
I'm banning every single person in this thread for even implying that I'm on a power trip :twisted:
Otakon's staff has been under fire lately for something similar.
Most of the people that have "power trips" are underlings that don't know much.
Kekekkekekeekekekkee, this may or may not be long according to if my roommate hurries the hell up and we head out on time.
Most of the people don't understand how terrible it is to staff conventions and how thankless the job is. Let's put it like this. The convention is generally 72 hours. Staff members work about 35 of these hours, and sleep about 12 of these hours. The rest of the time, they "have free", they are still on call and being asked to clear shit, do side things, and are being harassed for other stupid crap that someone else should be taken care of.
They invest days outside of the convention to plan and work for a bunch of people to enjoy 72 hours rolling and the floors and beg for pocky. The ones that go off on power trips are the "staffers" that only show up on the convention days and think having a staff badge makes them superior to the "con-goers".
I've had plenty of experience with staff members. I've mentioned fanime staff members harassing me because I found a couple groaping each other near the phone booths on my way outside. They didn't say a thing to the couple groaping each other, but they were ready to kick me out of the con.
I've been shoved out of a room at Anime Expo(he physically shoved me out of the room and slammed the door in my face) despite me being allowed in that room as a helper to one of the persons there.
The stories I have with Ani-magic staff is hillarious but that involved much drama(that I've shared with a few on the admin team of this forum) and what not.
But as attendees, a lot of people seem to not understand lines in conduct. Play fighting with plastic swords, can be a liability. Let's say, a kid walks by gets smacked in the head by a sword. Total accident, but guess what happens? Parent sues the convention, and convention can no longer even allow plastic or fake/toy swords on convention grounds. This was one of the main points I tried to bring up in the "bad things" thread. Most of the staff isn't over the top and power hungry. Even if they are, think about what you're doing.
Just because it is a convention doesn't mean the real world doesn't exist. Cut short, laters...
I agree, playfighting, even with toy plastic swords, is a liability issue and it is understandable that it isn't allowed.
However, it is also wrong for a staff member to get 'furious', even if they are in fact justified in feeling as such. As someone who is listed as staff, a certain degree of professionalism should be expected when enforcing rules. After all, if someone continues to violate a rule when told not to by a staff member, the staff member can simply report and have the person removed from the con. There should be no reason to lose one's temper as that will only be detrimental to the situation.
And I definately agree that unclear guidelines and a double-standard resulting from rules being subjectively enforced is a problem.
I never said it wasn't wrong to play fight with swords, merely that the staff person grossly overreated. A lot of times all someone needs is "What you're doing is bad, and you should stop doing it because of x". Only AFTER this do you get to go postal on con members. My friends would have stopped with a small warning.
It's like the time I got pissed off for one staff member on sunday for telling me to stop standing on some chair. On saturday fan staff watched us all night, without problems. On sunday suddenly there was change, and without any reasonable explaination. Later on someone on the forums told me the chairs weren't the most stable and she'd seen people stand on those chairs, only to have them collapse and people hurt themselves.
Well going with the sue thing...I think you need to ban people from showing up drunk to the raves. Since OBVIOUSLY that poses a MUCH higher risk, as I've heard SOMEBODY seems to ALWAYS break their leg or sprain their ankle on the dance floor year after year...
I just want to say it's good to hear this sort of feedback. Hopefully some of these issues can be dealt with for this year. :)
Quote from: Ayanami Rei First ChildI never said it wasn't wrong to play fight with swords, merely that the staff person grossly overreated. A lot of times all someone needs is "What you're doing is bad, and you should stop doing it because of x". Only AFTER this do you get to go postal on con members. My friends would have stopped with a small warning.
It's like the time I got pissed off for one staff member on sunday for telling me to stop standing on some chair. On saturday fan staff watched us all night, without problems. On sunday suddenly there was change, and without any reasonable explaination. Later on someone on the forums told me the chairs weren't the most stable and she'd seen people stand on those chairs, only to have them collapse and people hurt themselves.
Well going with the sue thing...I think you need to ban people from showing up drunk to the raves. Since OBVIOUSLY that poses a MUCH higher risk, as I've heard SOMEBODY seems to ALWAYS break their leg or sprain their ankle on the dance floor year after year...
Really? If that were true, then I wouldn't have had to nearly beat up some guy who wouldn't stop harassing a friend of mine. There wouldn't be people sleeping inside of the convention center year after year. I've seen staff members politely tell people not to do something only to have them do it again as soon as the staff member left. Sure, maybe your friends woulda stopped, and the correct order would have been to be nice at first. But they were still in the wrong regardless. Now, if your friends weren't in the wrong, and someone got bitchy like that, then you'd have grounds to go off on the staff member.
Not the case though. Don't expect staff members, or anyone to be nice to you when you are in the wrong. Different staff members, different reasonings and rule enforcement amounts. Some staff members don't mind if you break rules, as long as you're not doing anything too bad. Others don't want you to break rules at all. The chair thing, I coulda(and probably would have) argued with the staff member, just to see what would have happened. But that's just me. Know when to pick your fights, and know your capabilities in doing so. If you are clearly in the wrong though, just suck it up.
I would be too busy helping this year to take a power trip.... more like a trip to heaven in my sleep after the convention..=\
All sillyness aside, I don't think staff members are assholes, but there might be one or two who are, whether they are staff or not.
OBVIOUSLY I would NEVER say all staff members are assholes. The people who let me stand on chairs seemed cool, and I KNOW my friend Moogleborg is an awesome guy. I've never heard of him EVER going REMOTELY off on people.
Sure there's going to be people who are going to break the rules regardless, there's going to be those people. I'm just saying a single nice warning should be a first resort, and then you can go psycho on people >.>;
Quote from: SohmaYuki
Not the case though. Don't expect staff members, or anyone to be nice to you when you are in the wrong....If you are clearly in the wrong though, just suck it up.
Am I to understand that regardless of the level of rule breaking, that we should then expect a harsh response every time? Guess that means no gum under the desk anymore - I might get kicked out. =P
- FF
Quote from: 1FireforgeQuote from: SohmaYuki
Not the case though. Don't expect staff members, or anyone to be nice to you when you are in the wrong....If you are clearly in the wrong though, just suck it up.
Am I to understand that regardless of the level of rule breaking, that we should then expect a harsh response every time? Guess that means no gum under the desk anymore - I might get kicked out. =P
- FF
And no running with scissors!!!
Quote from: Ayanami Rei First ChildOBVIOUSLY I would NEVER say all staff members are assholes. The people who let me stand on chairs seemed cool, and I KNOW my friend Moogleborg is an awesome guy. I've never heard of him EVER going REMOTELY off on people.
Sure there's going to be people who are going to break the rules regardless, there's going to be those people. I'm just saying a single nice warning should be a first resort, and then you can go psycho on people >.>;
But the thing is, being 'cool' is not part of the job. Enforcing the rules is.
With a large convention and a lot of things to do, you can't sugarcoat every request. As SohmaYuki said, if you're in the wrong, you have to suck it up.
Of course, a courtesy warning does help relations. But on the flip side, if you don't take advantage of that warning, don't expect people to pussyfoot around waiting for you to kindly comply.
If someone doesn't comply, that doesn't give a staff member permission to go psycho though. Like I said before, a degree of professionalism needs to be maintained. Besides, there should be no need to go psycho when particularly stubborn people can simply be ejected if they continue to insist on their course of action.
The problem with the chair situation was the confusion resulting from another staff member permitting it earlier, which is why staff need to be aware of the rules and regulations in order to enforce them evenly.
As for gum under the desk...don't joke! My friend lost an eye to that.
But seriously, sticking gum under a desk it is vandalism and just plain rude. Go to a garbage can, they're out there for a reason.
Personally if I ran across someone sticking gum under SJCC property, I'd ask them to scrape it off and dispose of it properly. And if they'd rather give lip and play games, then we'll play games. But really, I'd hope they'd just throw the gum away properly because it would save everyone a lot of trouble and grief.
As for running with scissors, I hope you don't! Because if you fall and got injured, I don't know if good Samaritan laws would cover me as a staff member (we were told to try and avoid it for liability reasons) so you'd have to wait for one of the hired EMTs to arrive. But if you do run, remember to hold the pointy part of the blades in your fist.
Quote from: trooper715
If someone doesn't comply, that doesn't give a staff member permission to go psycho though. Like I said before, a degree of professionalism needs to be maintained. Besides, there should be no need to go psycho when particularly stubborn people can simply be ejected if they continue to insist on their course of action.
Yah, that's what I was really getting at =)
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But seriously, sticking gum under a desk it is vandalism and just plain rude. Go to a garbage can, they're out there for a reason.
Ofc, I was just trying to think of the littlest offense that I could come up with. =P
Quote from: 1FireforgeQuote from: trooper715
If someone doesn't comply, that doesn't give a staff member permission to go psycho though. Like I said before, a degree of professionalism needs to be maintained. Besides, there should be no need to go psycho when particularly stubborn people can simply be ejected if they continue to insist on their course of action.
Yah, that's what I was really getting at =)
You can't expect all staff members(or people for that matter) to hold their temper. A lof you seem to not understand what staffing(especially for the higher ups) really means, and how thankless the job really is. Your average staff member will get about 3 hours a sleep a night at a convention, and not by choice. Most of them barely have much "fun" at the convention itself, but do more work. It's expected that some of them get irritable. If you are in the wrong, you are in the wrong. Suck it up, you act like being yelled at is so wrong, when you were doing something you shouldn't have been doing in the first place. Most staff members won't get all crazy and yell at you, some will... deal with it.
If you did something wrong, you did something wrong.
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You can't expect all staff members(or people for that matter) to hold their temper. A lot of you seem to not understand what staffing(especially for the higher ups) really means, and how thankless the job really is. Your average staff member will get about 3 hours a sleep a night at a convention, and not by choice. Most of them barely have much "fun" at the convention itself, but do more work. It's expected that some of them get irritable. If you are in the wrong, you are in the wrong. Suck it up, you act like being yelled at is so wrong, when you were doing something you shouldn't have been doing in the first place. Most staff members won't get all crazy and yell at you, some will... deal with it.
Respectfully, but I disagree. Fatigue, long hours, and thankless work do not warrant nor excuse rude conduct, especially on the part of someone supposed to be in charge. Fanime, like many other organizations, is volunteer run, and there are never enough volunteers to go around, which results in situations very much like what you describe above (yes, I speak from experience =). One thing that truly marks a good staffer is the ability to grit one's teeth and at least be civil in these instances, even if running on only two hours of sleep over as many days.
- FF
Quote from: 1Fireforge
Respectfully, but I disagree. Fatigue, long hours, and thankless work do not warrant nor excuse rude conduct, especially on the part of someone supposed to be in charge. Fanime, like many other organizations, is volunteer run, and there are never enough volunteers to go around, which results in situations very much like what you describe above (yes, I speak from experience =). One thing that truly marks a good staffer is the ability to grit one's teeth and at least be civil in these instances, even if running on only two hours of sleep over as many days.
- FF
And how many staffers are actually like that? Very few. But the fact of the matter is, this is NOT business run. So they do not have to follow and conduct rules, or anything like that because it is not a professional business. As you said, they're volunteer. If I was volunteering to something, and the attendees of the convention that I VOLUNTEERED MY TIME TO HELP treated me like crap, or disregarded my instructions, or did something to piss me off... then why should I be nice? Why should I be professional to idiots that cannot follow basic rules. I'd call actual security, take their badges and tell the to get the f*ck out. If a staff member asks you to do something, and you're breaking rules, don't be suprised if you get yelled at... simple as that.
This talk of "what should" be done is completely pointless, because you're breaking their rules. Hell they don't even need to say a word to you realistically, they can just take your badge and call security to have you removed. Would you much rather prefer that course of action?
Basically, you are stating that people should not be allowed to put emotion into something when they are not being followed as an authority.
Some people don't listen to authority when authority is nice. Staff has a right to do it, and you bitching doesn't change that. You think staff should be nicer? I think attendees shouldn't be idiots. When my problem is solved, I'm pretty sure your problem will be solved.
I think your position is too extreme. If you're too harsh with the fans, then they WILL leave. That's happened before. The power of suggestion is powerful. People kept saying how there wouldn't be a bunch of high quality cosplayers....and I noticed a lot fewer quality cosplays. Not as many professionals in 06 as there were in 05. So what happends when more people start talking about leaving? I'm not saying give people a free ride...but don't go on a power trip. Although that might be hard since it sounds like you're already on one Yuki.
I love how some of you choose not to read at all. Do you guys seriously try to completely miss the point of everything that is said, read 1 line, and go "I know exactly what he means"? Seriously...
You should note how I say that I say the majority of staff will not do it, and are usually calm about it.
You should also note that I say that in the case it does happen, usually the staff member is justified, because they are in the right, IF the person on the receiving end did something wrong.
You should also note that I SPECIFICALLY SAID that it's usually for the people that DO NOT LISTEN(like you seem to be doing) to what the staff member says.
But please, if you're going to say that people didn't come in '06 compared to '05 because of maybe 3 incidents of "staff members having a power trip"... then AX members should have atleast decreased by half.
This is totally rediculous. You expect staff members to be perfectly calm and professional, despite attendees acting like 4 yr. olds and defying authority when they are breaking logical rules? If some guys are doing something that the con can get totally busted for, some people might stop if a staff member asks them to stop, some won't... how do you get them to stop right there? Be angry. If they know you're not joking around and you are dead serious about it.. they will stop. Oh they might feel a little offended, but frankly, that's better than something bad happening and the convention getting sued, or someone breaking their leg, or some other crap like that. You are young adults -> Adults... you can take a few harsh words, ESPECIALLY when you are the one that's wrong.
QuoteBut the fact of the matter is, this is NOT business run. So they do not have to follow and conduct rules, or anything like that because it is not a professional business.
So, just because it's not a "business" gives them the right to be a [select your expletive]? Is this mindset typical of staff members? Rei is sounding more and more right all the time.
You actually seem to be ambivalent about the whole situation, where you endorse the idea of being civil at first, but then add a disclaimer by telling us to expect harsh treatment every time a rule is broken.
All I'm advocating is that if someone is breaking the rules, you can at least be courteous but firm at first in asking them to cut it out. Most people will listen, especially if your delivery is convincing (at least, that's been my experience). For those children that don't, you can either try to yell to get results (and end up acting like a child yourself) or call another supervisor to help you out.
- FF
P.S. You're clearly unwilling to accept any other point of view, so I'm disinclined to continue this conversation any further.
Some staffers are polite in asking someone to stop doing something. Some staffers get uptight and mean. It all depends on the person. You just have to get the knack of picking out which is which. This goes for the individuality in con-members as well. Some con-goers will listen when you ask them to stop misbehaving, others won't, so you just get the supervisor.
You can't ask every single staff member on a team to conform to a certain kind of personality. It just won't happen.
Anyways, I was usually too sleepy to yell at anyone for misbehaving, rather than getting irritable from lack of sleep. ;P
Quote from: LongSome staffers are polite in asking someone to stop doing something. Some staffers get uptight and mean. It all depends on the person. You just have to get the knack of picking out which is which. This goes for the individuality in con-members as well. Some con-goers will listen when you ask them to stop misbehaving, others won't, so you just get the supervisor.
You can't ask every single staff member on a team to conform to a certain kind of personality. It just won't happen.
Anyways, I was usually too sleepy to yell at anyone for misbehaving, rather than getting irritable from lack of sleep. ;P
I AGREE!
You know there was someone you remind me of....someone who gave out harsh punishments in his land, making the smallest crimes have the same punishment as something worse like murder. He was called Vlad The Impaler. I hope you enjoy being like one of the most infamous mass murders in all of history...
He's not saying that the smallest crime has to have the harshest punishment.
He's saying that while yes, it's good for staff members to be polite, it is a stressful job and sometimes that will show. If a staff member does end up yelling at you for doing something wrong and is not completely happiness, smiles, and sunshine about it, just remember you were doing something wrong that needed to be corrected and just correct it. Don't be worried about QQing over how your feelings got hurt, first consider what you were doing to get yelled at in the first place.
Not this 'Vlad the Impaler' tripe.
Quote from: Ayanami Rei First ChildYou know there was someone you remind me of....someone who gave out harsh punishments in his land, making the smallest crimes have the same punishment as something worse like murder. He was called Vlad The Impaler. I hope you enjoy being like one of the most infamous mass murders in all of history...
If you were referring to me... I LOVE you. I'm so quoting this and placing it in my signature. x3
Anyway, you guys are entirely missing my point. What I mean is that staff members are people too. When you deal with real people things aren't ever going to go as smoothly as you'd like them to, especially since personalities vary from person to person. Just avoid the mean staffers, and hang around the nicer ones. =/
Quote from: 1FireforgeSo, just because it's not a "business" gives them the right to be a [select your expletive]? Is this mindset typical of staff members? Rei is sounding more and more right all the time.
You actually seem to be ambivalent about the whole situation, where you endorse the idea of being civil at first, but then add a disclaimer by telling us to expect harsh treatment every time a rule is broken.
All I'm advocating is that if someone is breaking the rules, you can at least be courteous but firm at first in asking them to cut it out. Most people will listen, especially if your delivery is convincing (at least, that's been my experience). For those children that don't, you can either try to yell to get results (and end up acting like a child yourself) or call another supervisor to help you out.
P.S. You're clearly unwilling to accept any other point of view, so I'm disinclined to continue this conversation any further.
Oh please, you expect me to accept your view point when you can't even read my posts correctly. I even line itemed it out for the other guy, and you STILL DIDN'T UNDERSTAND.
I shall do it again...
MOST STAFFER WILL BE POLITE AND NICE AND ASK YOU RESPECTFULLY TO STOP...
BUT... NOT ALL STAFFERS WILL.
What part of this do you not understand? What part of most staffers will be polite and nice and all that stuff? What part of some staffers will be having a shitastic day where con'goers constantly disregard what they say, or they think that something dangerour or major may take place and believe they should not be nice because they need the go'er to stop whatever it is due to various reasons?
There are plenty of reasons for a staff member to get piss... You act like them being pissed=you getting kicked out, or you being banned, or you getting into major trouble. Can you not handle being yelled at? How is this in anyway like vlad? That's just f*cking stupid. When did I say that you should be kicked out or banned or anything close to that if you do something bad? I merely said, don't be surprised if a pissed off staff member, yells at you for doing something that potentially pissed them off.
Seriously, if you think getting yelled at is bad and such a huge major thing... ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE IN THE WRONG... I bet you're a spoiled brat that whose parents have done a poor job raising you.
I got kinda mad at a staff member last year, he was set in front of the arcade room. The first day we were there we were playing drum mania with drumsticks, which i thought were the convention's (I'd never played before so i didnt know that they were supposed to be attached or anything.) The second day i come back and figure i'd give it another try and come to find out the drumsticks are gone. Well... ok maybe the guy at the door knows or maybe they have a pair or something that never got set out. So i go over there and ask. "Excuse me, you know there arent any drumstick for drum mania right?" And he said. "Well then you should've brought your own then huh?"
Umm well how was i supposed to know something like that. Maybe if i had known i would've brought my own. It was just kind of upsetting. :\
Last year these two girls kept walking around back and forth, and telling me and my friends that we couldnt sit in certain places. It was really late, we were tired, and they kept bugging us.
But they didnt bug other people who sat in the same place after we got up.