My friend is not into anime...yet. But she really wants to find an anime she can enjoy. She keeps asking me what she should watch and so far I've had no luck. Now, honestly she just might not be an anime fan, and that's ok. But I thought I'd ask here and see if anyone had some good ideas.
She's a HUGE vampire fanatic. Loves Buffy and books about vampire and their love lives. Also loves fairies and pixies. Watches a lot of soap operas, still watches Beverly Hills 90210 reruns.
Her boyfriend tried Helsing with her...that was a big no go. I've thought about trying Karin, but I'm afraid it won't go over well because of the whole "reverse Vampire" thing. Any ideas? It doesn't have to be vampire related, I think it's the "romanticism" of Vampires that she likes. I'm just at a loss on what to try next.
Please let me know if you have any ideas. Thank you in advance.
Well from what I can tell, she doesn't like the overly violent Vampire shows. That's kinda tough to work with, cause they all have violence in there somewhere. I say still try Karin, it is adorable and romantic. Other vampire series to try out would be Tsukiyomi Moon Phase (or just Moon Phase), Trinity Blood (can be bloody but it is a gorgeous series and sticks with the romanticism), Lunar Legend Tsukihime (although very sad at the end it still is a great series) and for a new show coming in January 08, Rosario+Vampire (a supernatural school comedy).
Manga (although you didn't ask about manga still here's a thought), have her definitely read Vampire Knight. I think she would really love that series.
Hmm, others besides vampires. Well if she likes magical girl shows (since she likes pixies and fairies), I would recommend Card Captor Sakura. And of course, good old Sailor Moon. Maybe not the entire series, but parts of it or even just the movies.
I hope this helps. :)
I'm not sure what she likes about vampire stories, but I tend to like American vampire stories and not at all Japanese ones. Vampire anime just isn't the same as American vampires at all. Except maybe Vampire Princess Miyu. That one might possibly carry the feel of American vampires. Other than that, for the most part, Japanese vampires just don't have the same level of intrigue for me.
If she likes soap operas, maybe she can get into the very popular shoujo like Fruits Basket and His and Her Circumstances? Peach Girl and Paradise Kiss might do it, but I personally think they're over the top. Or maybe the older ones like Hana Yori Dango and Marmalade Boy (which also strike me as totally over the top)?
For Japanese horror that more closely resembles American vampire stories in feel (although not vampire content), maybe try the Mermaid's Forest series, Jigoku Shoujo (Hell Girl), and Hundred Stories. I'd also recommend the Petshop of Horrors manga. Definitely read the manga first. The anime just doesn't have the charm of the manga, and I think it can totally ruin the manga if people see the anime first. I think, once people get into the manga, the anime isn't so bad. Also, I'd recommend some shounen ai titles too... Oh! Try Yami no Matsuei (Descendants of Darkness). Maybe also try Loveless too.
If she doesn't like those, try asking her what about them she doesn't like and if there are any elements in them (no matter how small) that she does find appealing, and that would give more of a basis for making suggestions.
Jigoku Shoujo only makes sense(in terms of what the writer wanted to portray) if you have a strong grasp of the Japanese culture and mentallity. They showed Jigoku Shoujo at an anime club my friend runs, and most of them are new to JP cartoons, ala Adult Swim and what not.
None of them got it. They understood the basis of the series, but they didn't understand why people made choices they did, and why people acted the way they did, because of the Japanese cultural influence that takes place. Why a bullied girl just didn't take it up with the teachers, or why she didn't fight back. The understanding of how bullying works in Japan is so very different than in the US that it was lost on them.
Western vampire stories vary vastly according to where the story originates from(and none of them are actually American). Blood/Blood+ story take two different traditional vampire types.
As for suggestions. Vampire stories are a dime a dozen, but the appeal of romanticism is found in Blood+ though, not until the latter half of the series. Vampire Hunter D(both the original and remake) also carry that same appeal, but expand more than just that and create a strong action series as well. The basic series that are well known are good.Trinity Blood, I would say is good, but again, not until the latter half of the series when it becomes more about the vampires than 5 people running around and shooting up vampires.
But show her Fushiigi Yuugi. Girls eat it up for some reason. It's long, it's drama, it's got action but isn't too action based, it has sexy boys... and she'll fall in love with Tamahome just like everyone else.
For vampire anime, I've only seen Trinity Blood, but it was pretty good. For soap opera/comedy anime I'd recommend Ouran High School Host Club, Fruits Basket (I don't think I've ever met a person who didn't like Fruits Basket), and Saiunkoku. For magical girl, I'm a big fan of Cardcaptor Sakura and Princess Tutu.
Thanks for the great suggestions everyone!
I have to admit Fushigi Yuugi is one of my all time favorites, and I hadn't even thought to introduce her to that. (Silly Me) I hadn't put a lot of thought into the difference between Western Vampire stories and Eastern Vampire stories, I'm simply not a vampire fan myself. Thank you for the insight, I'll definately keep it in mind.
I think Fushigi Yuugi and Fruits Basket may be the way to go. Thank you again for the ideas. :D
I don't think she'll like Fruits Basket from the way you present her. It's much to childish(I loved FuruBa, so don't assume I'm looking down on it).
The series, and the emotions presented are shown in a very childish way. Though the anime cuts it short and doesn't even show anything, It just feels too childish for most people to want to accept. Hmmm... similar to FuruBa, but presented in a more adult way.
LOLOL Angel Sanctuary. Dunno why I didn't think of it before. That's all kinds of dramas, with gothic references and sexy girl boy incest.
Quote from: PyronIkari on November 27, 2007, 06:31:14 PM
I don't think she'll like Fruits Basket from the way you present her. It's much to childish(I loved FuruBa, so don't assume I'm looking down on it).
From this, I don't think showing her Karin or Tsukuyomi Moon Phase is a good idea, either. She might have a bad impression on anime if she's a fan of traditional vampire stories. XD;
Though, Vampire Princess Miyu and Fushigi Yuugi really doesn't seem like a bad idea. I liked Trinity Blood, but I'm not sure if she'd stick around long enough to be interested, otherwise, it'd be sort of confusing. And uh...
QuoteLOLOL Angel Sanctuary. Dunno why I didn't think of it before. That's all kinds of dramas, with gothic references and sexy girl boy incest.
As for just drama, I'd recommend Kimi ga Nozomu Eien. It's full of drama, and it's not too hard to understand.
I haven't had a chance to see it, but I hear Red Garden is good. It's not a typical vampire show, but she might like it.
The only problem with Trinity Blood is...I don't own it. lol. What I've seen of it is beautiful but I've never broken down and invested in it.
Fruits Basket is amazing. And yes it does come off childish, but in my humble opinion, there always seemed to be something deeper lurking just below the surface. The characters and stories are cute, but at it's base it's a story about an orphan girl creating a home surrounded by a seriously troubled family. If I can help her see some of those factors she may enjoy it. But you do have a point, it's not your traditional soap opera and she may not appreciate it.
I've never heard of Red Garden. I'll have to look into it.
(Please pardon my grammar, it's been a long day and I can't seem to structure a sentence to save my life.)
Oh, don't get me wrong, I love FuruBa. I read through it twice. The cartoon however is misleading in a lot of the things the show tried to portray, in that Tohru's story was about choosing between Kyou and Yuki. The comic goes so much more about meaning in people and worth. The major theme of the story was about seeing people for who they are, beyond impressions, beyond how they act, or what they say, and finding meaning in each person. Uo and Hana, both of them were such amazing catalysts for Tohru's character and how they describe her in the later pages of the comic, compared to how Yuki describes her, compared to how Kyou describes her.
I didn't like the end result of the comic personally, because I thought it should have happened a different way XD.
But to someone that isn't used to the feel of JP stories, or even just the art, they usually miss out on all those things. They aren't looking for a deeper meaning, because they aren't used to the media. All they recognize is the surface. A while back there was a thread about "good shows to show new comers" and I stated in that thread that... Extremely good shows, aren't always the best thing to show a new comer. New comers rarely understand the culture, and the basis of the media, so starting them out with something more simple to follow is better, and after a while when they become more understanding of the media, showing them more complicated stuff is okay. It's why most people you talk to got their "start" from the same set of series'. In the 90's, Slayers, Eva, Dragon Ball Z, Sailor Moon, Bubble Gum Crisis, almost everyone saw those in the early 80's, and that's how most started. In the 90's, Naruto, Bleach, FMA(though honestly, I think this is a bad series to start with), Cowboy Bebop, Trigun. All of them are simple and easy to follow along with. They explain the cultural nuances that you need to know within the story.
FuruBa doesn't explain the story of the Lunar Zodiac very well, it tells you only the basic, but you need an understanding of it to fully grasp the characters. As well, the culture of schools, student types(the fact that her mom is a gang member and what that ensues), what kind of character Ayane really is, and the "homosexual circle" between the three guys. FuruBa is a good show to show her after she's already seen a bunch of different things.
Start off with FY, it's super long, so it'll take her a long time for her to finish, if she gets hooked you can try Ayashi no Ceres, and from there, you can start branching out. She'll catch on to different themes just from those two series' alone.
To the topic creator:
Try out Moon Phase.
But Tsukiyomi... is seriously, nothing close to what her friend would like. If her friend likes the romanticism of vampires, and drama...
Tsukiyomi is NOTHING like that. Tsukiyomi is extremely cute, childish, fluff. Her friend would reply with something like "Why are you showing me a little kids show" or something to that extent, which was the whole thing I said about why I think FuruBa wouldn't be that good to show to her.
G'uh, this is why I don't like suggestion threads like this, most replies are "well I like this series, they will too!" and put no real thought or explaination into why they're posting what they do. Tsukiyomi would probably turn her off to JP cartoons and only push the idea "Cartoons are for kids".
Actually, no, I didn't like the series. It is more fun than serious for the most part and it has drama, vampires, and a slight touch of romanticism.
And if you read the description she offered, it's a HORRIBLE choice to show her. It's a cute show, written for guys. Moe-ani are horrible to show a girl whose is unfamiliar with JP cartoons.
I did read the description, but I was not willing to recommend bloody, violent things like VHD: Bloodlust, Blood: The Last Vampire, Tsukihime, Blood+ etc etc.
Either way, I would think it's reasonable to take a look into this Anime regardless of to whom the Anime is targeted for. And obviously not knowing the age of her sister, the latter recommendations were felt like they needed to be held back by me anyways.
Because those four series are the only possible series to choose from right?
She's got a boyfriend, and she's seen Hellsing already. You can gauge already that she doesn't really like action series, which is why I stated what I did when I presented my selection. Tsukiyomi is very cultural based... hope she understands JP superstition to get a lot of the jokes and what not.
If not, OH WELL.
XXXHolic would be a good show for her as well.
Considering she stated Hellsing wasn't a good choice already was another reason Blood+, VHD: Bloodlust, Blood; The Last Vampire and so forth wouldn't be suggested by me. Which is why it wouldn't hurt to try something new and get accustomed to the ideas Moon Phase lay out. And since there have been no objections from the actual viewer or representative of the viewer, I would assume trying it doesn't hurt.
You have your opinions and I have mine. Don't act like yours are more important since we both are talking out of ignorance of what she could potentially enjoy. So live with what I say as I live with yours.
Only what you say is stupid, because it doesn't make sense to present.
The reason why she is asking for suggestions, is because she is asking people that know the subject, and know different things that might her friend might like, then gave us a little description of her friend. No reply, is better than a stupid reply. You gave a stupid reply, one that was already mentioned and shown why it wouldn't really be a good thing to show by Jun.
Not only that, you didn't even give a description or reason why you suggested the title.
So basically, you did what I said... put virtually no thought into the title you suggested, give no explaination as to why it would be good, or how it would fit in,
You can't just throw out titles and be like "LOL she should watch this". A girl, that has no real anime experience, that's in probably her teens to early early 20's. Likes drama series, and romance.
Using that, a comedic series written for teenage boys to look at cute girls containing a whole slew of fetishes... WOULD NOT be the likely choice to show this girl. But no, that would take knowledge on the subject of anime, which despite your proclaimations, you seem to always be wrong about.
Quote from: BrightHeart76 on November 12, 2007, 07:06:32 PM
Her boyfriend tried Helsing with her...that was a big no go. I've thought about trying Karin, but I'm afraid it won't go over well because of the whole "reverse Vampire" thing. Any ideas? It doesn't have to be vampire related, I think it's the "romanticism" of Vampires that she likes. I'm just at a loss on what to try next.
Please let me know if you have any ideas. Thank you in advance.
Yeah ok. All I have to do is quote. I don't even need to respond anymore, Mikey.
lol...oh, and I just realized you said my opinions are wrong, Mikey. Funny stuff. I can't even begin to comment how much of a hypocrite you are with what you posted as your recommendations and the reasons with what I have said with Moon Phase. Keep at it Mikey with your incoherent rants about random crap and your 3rd grade English skills. You impact me a lot and everyone else around you with your ideals and objective like opinions. All hail you who knows more just because you can wiki information and post it on here. Lol internet.
Quote from: LordKefka on November 28, 2007, 03:06:45 AM
Quote from: BrightHeart76 on November 12, 2007, 07:06:32 PM
Her boyfriend tried Helsing with her...that was a big no go. I've thought about trying Karin, but I'm afraid it won't go over well because of the whole "reverse Vampire" thing. Any ideas? It doesn't have to be vampire related, I think it's the "romanticism" of Vampires that she likes. I'm just at a loss on what to try next.
Please let me know if you have any ideas. Thank you in advance.
Yeah ok. All I have to do is quote. I don't even need to respond anymore, Mikey.
And you suggested Tsukuyomi. XD
Quote from: Jun-Watarase on November 28, 2007, 03:19:17 AM
Quote from: LordKefka on November 28, 2007, 03:06:45 AM
Quote from: BrightHeart76 on November 12, 2007, 07:06:32 PM
Her boyfriend tried Helsing with her...that was a big no go. I've thought about trying Karin, but I'm afraid it won't go over well because of the whole "reverse Vampire" thing. Any ideas? It doesn't have to be vampire related, I think it's the "romanticism" of Vampires that she likes. I'm just at a loss on what to try next.
Please let me know if you have any ideas. Thank you in advance.
Yeah ok. All I have to do is quote. I don't even need to respond anymore, Mikey.
And you suggested Tsukuyomi. XD
Especially when she already said Hellsing was a "no go", you don't see the wrong in recommending stuff like Blood+ and Blood: The Last Vampire and so forth? There is a limit to how you can defend someone Jun. When you get into Anime, it's already a new cultural experience. Keep that in mind when you think someone might be in a "cultural shock" when they are already a part of that cultural experience.
Quote from: LordKefka on November 28, 2007, 03:06:45 AM
Yeah ok. All I have to do is quote. I don't even need to respond anymore, Mikey.
lol...oh, and I just realized you said my opinions are wrong, Mikey. Funny stuff. I can't even begin to comment how much of a hypocrite you are with what you posted as your reasons with what I have said. Keep at it Mikey with your incoherent rants about random crap and your 3rd grade English skills. You impact me a lot and everyone else around you with your ideals and objective like opinions. All hail you who knows more just because you can wiki information and post it on here. Lol internet.
That doesn't even make sense! Yes... your suggestion... doesn't fit... that description... at... all. Everything I said applies and makes sense about this situation. Buffy, 90210, romanticism... Tsukiyomi is NOTHING LIKE THAT. And then there's all the things about Tsukiyomi that would turn her off from JP cartoons. But all the reasoning I gave apparently doesn't make sense? Yeah... please... Especially since, I don't use wiki.
Maybe I should just be like you, and reply with 1 line replies that don't make sense, or apply, offer no other information, or reasoning. That sounds like a good idea.
I've already explained how Blood+ doesn't get into romanticism and all that until about half way through the series, and it wasn't really a suggestion, and explaination of different vampire series.
Culture shock means easing into the series... that's why people accepted Dragon Ball Z, Sailor Moon, Pokemon, and other easy to get into series. Or did you not read my entire explaination on that. Forcing someone into a cultural change that they don't understand is harder for the person to accept/enjoy, than easing them into it before showing them the more complicated parts of the culture. Does it really piss you off that *I* know more about this than you, that you can't just understand that your suggestion was a bad one, and that you did exactly what I said... suggest something bad with no real basis?
OP: I haven't seen it myself, but apparently you might want to look up RG Veda. A lot of my female friends say it's a good choice, and it's not that hard to get into(OAV).
You actually defined cultural shock wrong...lol. L2 use the dictionary..lol
And you just keep thinking you know more, Mikey. From the way you talk, it doesn't even seem you've seen Moon Phase. There is drama, romanticism (again, L2 read the dictionary for it's definition again..lol), and of course, vampires (which is hardly the argument). Or would you like me to waste my time with you going through each episode of Moon Phase and pointing out the drama and romanticism ideas in each scene.
Quote from: LordKefka on November 28, 2007, 03:26:02 AM
Quote from: Jun-Watarase on November 28, 2007, 03:19:17 AM
Quote from: LordKefka on November 28, 2007, 03:06:45 AM
Quote from: BrightHeart76 on November 12, 2007, 07:06:32 PM
Her boyfriend tried Helsing with her...that was a big no go. I've thought about trying Karin, but I'm afraid it won't go over well because of the whole "reverse Vampire" thing. Any ideas? It doesn't have to be vampire related, I think it's the "romanticism" of Vampires that she likes. I'm just at a loss on what to try next.
Please let me know if you have any ideas. Thank you in advance.
Yeah ok. All I have to do is quote. I don't even need to respond anymore, Mikey.
And you suggested Tsukuyomi. XD
Especially when she already said Hellsing was a "no go", you don't see the wrong in recommending stuff like Blood+ and Blood: The Last Vampire and so forth? There is a limit to how you can defend someone Jun. When you get into Anime, it's already a new cultural experience. Keep that in mind when you think someone might be in a "cultural shock" when they are already a part of that cultural experience.
Quote from: Jun-Watarase on November 27, 2007, 06:45:33 PM
Quote from: PyronIkari on November 27, 2007, 06:31:14 PM
I don't think she'll like Fruits Basket from the way you present her. It's much to childish(I loved FuruBa, so don't assume I'm looking down on it).
From this, I don't think showing her Karin or Tsukuyomi Moon Phase is a good idea, either. She might have a bad impression on anime if she's a fan of traditional vampire stories. XD;
Though, Vampire Princess Miyu and Fushigi Yuugi really doesn't seem like a bad idea. I liked Trinity Blood, but I'm not sure if she'd stick around long enough to be interested, otherwise, it'd be sort of confusing. And uh...QuoteLOLOL Angel Sanctuary. Dunno why I didn't think of it before. That's all kinds of dramas, with gothic references and sexy girl boy incest.
As for just drama, I'd recommend Kimi ga Nozomu Eien. It's full of drama, and it's not too hard to understand.
My last post. Neither of us suggested Blood, but as for showing her Tsukuyomi...
QuoteTsukiyomi is NOTHING like that. Tsukiyomi is extremely cute, childish, fluff. Her friend would reply with something like "Why are you showing me a little kids show" or something to that extent, which was the whole thing I said about why I think FuruBa wouldn't be that good to show to her.
If I were her, new to anime, I'd have the same reaction.
Rather than assume that I'm simply defending someone, you could possibly think that... I don't know, I don't agree with you? I already said why Tsukuyomi is a crappy suggestion. If you're actually keeping in mind the CULTURAL DIFFERENCES, why suggest a series that wouldn't be fully understood BECAUSE of cultural differences? Tsukuyomi and Karin are moe-kei, which cute are clearly written for men... not quite for someone who is new to anime, nor is there much romanticism, there.
There's a difference between Romanticism, and a story with love and a romantic storyline.
As for Blood/Blood+, I don't see the problem in terms of cultural differences. They show it on Cartoon Network IN ENGLISH and it does just fine. Why? The cultural references aren't significant to the extent that you'd have trouble understanding the plot. The only reason I wouldn't recommend Blood is because it doesn't fit her preferences.
There are cultural differences in a lot of Anime in a variety of ways. Moon Phase is unique in it's own way not of just being a moe Anime, but with other elements like drama, vampires, with a touch of romanticism (and yes, I know the word if you want me to define it). Anime is a different culture in itself and introduces people to different ideas. You're telling me YOU get to decide and predict what kind of culture she is willing to accept on a certain degree? That's ignorance talking, not fact.
Oh don't know why I didn't think of this before
Gankutsuou. Based on The Count of Monte Cristo, she might have a hard time adjusting to the character designs, but it's amazingly written, and hopefully a story she is familiar with.
RomeoXJuliet: Again, a story she is hopefully familiar with, with a JP spin on it. Contains the drama, and everything she's looking for as well.
LordKefka: I wasn't defining culture, I was inferring that, because it exists, you need to ease people into things. I've watched Tsukiyomi. Romanticism, doesn't mean relationships and fluff. There's a difference between the romanticism she's looking for, and the fluff that is in Tsukiyomi.
LOLOLOL next should I suggest Genshiken to her? I mean... that has romance and drama in it too, therefore it fits as well right? Besides the fact that 99% of the show ill go over her head, the romance and drama is nothing like she's looking for, and it's written for teenage to early 20 guys as a mocking of the otaku culture as a whole...
Yeah, that would be GREAT... wouldn't it? You keep attacking my English and how I word my sentences, seeing that I'm not speaking with 100% perfect grammar, and using short phrases where you should be able to infer meaning, instead of typing like I'm writing an essay(like... real people talk?).
Quote from: LordKefka on November 28, 2007, 03:47:49 AM
There are cultural differences in a lot of Anime in a variety of ways. Moon Phase is unique in it's own way not of just being a moe Anime, but with other elements like drama, vampires, with a touch of romanticism (and yes, I know the word if you want me to define it). Anime is a different culture in itself and introduces people to different ideas.
Reasons why Tsukuyomi: Moon Phase, Karin, and Fruits Basket are bad suggestions were listed already. There's nothing to discuss. She has a pretty good list from all the other suggestions so far.
Unless there's any GOOD reason to object, this thread is better off kept as a quality list of suggestions that she can use to show her friend some appropriate anime that fit her preferences.
You know what's a romantic anime? Emma. It's
pretty really slow-paced, though, so she might get bored. I don't know your friend, so you can use it as a possibility if you think she'd be okay with it.
EDIT: OH! GANKUTSUOU! Totally forgot about that. That's a
REALLY good PERFECT suggestion, actually.
By the way, Pyron... Fruits Basket sucks. I'm sorry. =P
Let me quote myself here...
Quote from: LordKefka on November 28, 2007, 02:45:38 AM
Considering she stated Hellsing wasn't a good choice already was another reason Blood+, VHD: Bloodlust, Blood; The Last Vampire and so forth wouldn't be suggested by me. Which is why it wouldn't hurt to try something new and get accustomed to the ideas Moon Phase lay out. And since there have been no objections from the actual viewer or representative of the viewer, I would assume trying it doesn't hurt.
You have your opinions and I have mine. Don't act like yours are more important since we both are talking out of ignorance of what she could potentially enjoy. So live with what I say as I live with yours.
In other words, opinions are suggestions. Don't ARGUE like an opinion is wrong just because you think it does not fit your personal criteria. It's basically all I have to say.
Quote from: LordKefka on November 28, 2007, 03:57:08 AM
Let me quote myself here...
Quote from: LordKefka on November 28, 2007, 02:45:38 AM
Considering she stated Hellsing wasn't a good choice already was another reason Blood+, VHD: Bloodlust, Blood; The Last Vampire and so forth wouldn't be suggested by me. Which is why it wouldn't hurt to try something new and get accustomed to the ideas Moon Phase lay out. And since there have been no objections from the actual viewer or representative of the viewer, I would assume trying it doesn't hurt.
You have your opinions and I have mine. Don't act like yours are more important since we both are talking out of ignorance of what she could potentially enjoy. So live with what I say as I live with yours.
In other words, opinions are suggestions. Don't ARGUE like an opinion is wrong just because you think it does not fit your personal criteria. It's basically all I have to say.
Sorry, but... uh, we're not arguing over personal opinions. I'm trying to consider the preferences of the OP's friends. We're not trying to find anime for
you, you realize? =P
Quote from: Jun-Watarase on November 28, 2007, 04:01:43 AM
Quote from: LordKefka on November 28, 2007, 03:57:08 AM
Let me quote myself here...
Quote from: LordKefka on November 28, 2007, 02:45:38 AM
Considering she stated Hellsing wasn't a good choice already was another reason Blood+, VHD: Bloodlust, Blood; The Last Vampire and so forth wouldn't be suggested by me. Which is why it wouldn't hurt to try something new and get accustomed to the ideas Moon Phase lay out. And since there have been no objections from the actual viewer or representative of the viewer, I would assume trying it doesn't hurt.
You have your opinions and I have mine. Don't act like yours are more important since we both are talking out of ignorance of what she could potentially enjoy. So live with what I say as I live with yours.
In other words, opinions are suggestions. Don't ARGUE like an opinion is wrong just because you think it does not fit your personal criteria. It's basically all I have to say.
Sorry, but... uh, we're not arguing over personal opinions. I'm trying to consider the preferences of the OP's friends. We're not trying to find anime for you, you realize? =P
Then I should see no more comments pertaining to my suggestion like "XD" or "your suggestion is out of stupidity" from anyone, right?
Quote from: LordKefka on November 28, 2007, 04:04:41 AM
Quote from: Jun-Watarase on November 28, 2007, 04:01:43 AM
Quote from: LordKefka on November 28, 2007, 03:57:08 AM
Let me quote myself here...
Quote from: LordKefka on November 28, 2007, 02:45:38 AM
Considering she stated Hellsing wasn't a good choice already was another reason Blood+, VHD: Bloodlust, Blood; The Last Vampire and so forth wouldn't be suggested by me. Which is why it wouldn't hurt to try something new and get accustomed to the ideas Moon Phase lay out. And since there have been no objections from the actual viewer or representative of the viewer, I would assume trying it doesn't hurt.
You have your opinions and I have mine. Don't act like yours are more important since we both are talking out of ignorance of what she could potentially enjoy. So live with what I say as I live with yours.
In other words, opinions are suggestions. Don't ARGUE like an opinion is wrong just because you think it does not fit your personal criteria. It's basically all I have to say.
Sorry, but... uh, we're not arguing over personal opinions. I'm trying to consider the preferences of the OP's friends. We're not trying to find anime for you, you realize? =P
Then I should see no more comments pertaining to my suggestion like "XD" or "your suggestion is out of stupidity" from anyone, right?
We already said why it didn't work, and yet you suggested it. Somehow you didn't get the message after hearing it several times. =P
Anyways, to save the OP trouble... here's a list of all the series suggested so far. Which ones to show her friend is entirely up to her.
Karin
Tsukuyomi: Moon Phase
Trinity Blood
Shingetsutan Tsukihime
Rosario+Vampire
Vampire Knight
Card Captor Sakura
Sailor Moon
Vampire Princess Miyu
Fruits Basket
His or Her Circumstances
Mermaid Forest - Series
Jigoku Shoujo
Yami no Matsuei
Fushigi Yuugi
Ouran High School Host Club
Saiunkoku
Princess Tutu
Angel Sanctuary
Kimi ga Nozomu Eien
Red Garden
XXXHolic
RG Veda
Emma
Gankutsuou
Romeo x Juliet
12 Kouki
Paradise Kiss might be a good drama/romance series, too, but it can be... over-the-top, sometimes.
So because you said it wouldn't work, another opinion which is different should be ruled out because it doesn't agree with what you said countless times? A little selfish and cocky don't you think? How is that respecting someone else's opinion to say what you just said to me? And you mentioned you're not here to argue over personal opinions? So you're simply suggesting to take your opinions as the overriding ones? Lol. I see no reason to keep arguing with all the contradictions. Continue with the topic then.
Quote from: LordKefka on November 28, 2007, 04:22:39 AM
So because you said it wouldn't work, another opinion which is different should be ruled out because it doesn't agree with what you said countless times? A little selfish and cocky don't you think? How is that respecting someone else's opinion to say what you just said to me? And you mentioned you're not here to argue over personal opinions? So you're simply suggesting to take your opinions as the overriding ones? Lol. I see no reason to keep arguing with all the contradictions. Continue with the topic then.
What in the hell are you talking about? Your suggestion is a bad suggestion because it is a bad suggestion, not because of who it came from(though... no I won't bother with that line of thought). It's a bad suggestion for all the reasons we have stated. You can't even give a good reason as to how it's a good suggestion, all you're doing is saying your suggestion is good because we shouldn't say it's bad. Seriously, shut the hell up, because you don't make sense, you never do, everytime you speak to me, you don't make sense. You seem to care more about proving you're right over the entire point of this thread which was to help her pick out give suggestions for her friend and to offer up reasons as to why. I did that, you didn't, I pointed it out, now you're just bitching to somehow prove that you know more than me or something? All you've done is attack my grammar, and my English, and that I have no right to state that your suggestion is a bad one.
Hey what the hell? Calm down people. De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum.
[moderator]
PyronIkari, suggestions are suggestions, no need to qualify them as "HORRIBLE" or "stupid".
LordKefka, no insults in this forum.
[/moderator]
Lol. Wow, now I look like the bad person even though the whole time I've basically been arguing how you can't say an opinion is wrong. Alright, I see.
Quote from: PyronIkari on November 28, 2007, 03:01:49 AM
But no, that would take knowledge on the subject of anime, which despite your proclaimations, you seem to always be wrong about.
I wonder who gave the insult.
Don't get me wrong, if it's just about disagreeing with an opinion I had, I'm perfectly fine and I'll justify it (like I've been trying to do). But you draw a line between an opinion to someone else and an actual flame to disprove an opinion and the person who made that opinion stupid and dumb just because you hold yours more highly.
Quote from: Tony on November 28, 2007, 08:30:37 AM
Hey what the hell? Calm down people. De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum.
[moderator]
PyronIkari, suggestions are suggestions, no need to qualify them as "HORRIBLE" or "stupid".
LordKefka, no insults in this forum.
[/moderator]
But there is, a suggestion is a form of advice... and there is such a thing as bad advice. The person seeking advice doesn't always know if the advice is good or not, otherwise... they wouldn't be asking for advice. If she's trying to get her friend to watch anime... showing her something that can turn her away from it completely... is BAD ADVICE. Showing her something that she would most likely not want to watch, and would not understand for the most part... is BAD ADVICE and the opposite of what she's trying to accomplish.
So there is a need to qualify them as "horrible" or "stupid", because that's what they are.
Quote from: LordKefka on November 28, 2007, 09:09:26 AM
Lol. Wow, now I look like the bad person even though the whole time I've basically been arguing how you can't say an opinion is wrong. Alright, I see.
Quote from: PyronIkari on November 28, 2007, 03:01:49 AM
But no, that would take knowledge on the subject of anime, which despite your proclaimations, you seem to always be wrong about.
I wonder who gave the insult.
Don't get me wrong, if it's just about disagreeing with an opinion I had, I'm perfectly fine and I'll justify it (like I've been trying to do). But you draw a line between an opinion to someone else and an actual flame to disprove an opinion and the person who made that opinion stupid and dumb just because you hold yours more highly.
Okay. For a while now, it WAS just disagreeing with your opinion. Why is it so difficult to explain to you that it WAS A BAD SUGGESTION? Even when -I- was also disagreeing, I didn't insult you. You just somehow love to pool my opinions with Pyron's because I don't agree with what you say.
Instead of considering the OP's request, you just had to keep trying to prove yourself right when there was absolutely NO point to it. A lot of your posts don't even make sense, let alone fit together. Hell, that doesn't even just apply here-- all of your arguments seem to go astray somehow and totally derail from a debate, to you whining like a kid to prove yourself right. Now Tony comes in and moderates, and all you have to say for it was "HE DID IT! HE DID IT!"
But hey, you can have your opinions. Next time, if someone suggests a good action anime, I'm gonna suggest Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu because there's just so much god damned fighting in that series. So are you going to make any more suggestions? Or are you just going to argue IN HONOR of Tsukuyomi being a brilliant choice for her friend to watch because it totally matches your idea of her preferences? =|
That list I made in my earlier post was a list of ALL the series that this thread has suggested for her.
ALL of them.
Including Tsukuyomi.
You two want to be judgmental and decide for her that it is a bad suggestion, to have me waste my time trying to explain it, when the suggestion wasn't for you in the first place.
Quote from: PyronIkari on November 27, 2007, 02:20:07 AM
Jigoku Shoujo only makes sense(in terms of what the writer wanted to portray) if you have a strong grasp of the Japanese culture and mentallity. They showed Jigoku Shoujo at an anime club my friend runs, and most of them are new to JP cartoons, ala Adult Swim and what not. None of them got it. They understood the basis of the series, but they didn't understand why people made choices they did, and why people acted the way they did, because of the Japanese cultural influence that takes place. Why a bullied girl just didn't take it up with the teachers, or why she didn't fight back. The understanding of how bullying works in Japan is so very different than in the US that it was lost on them.
That's a good point. I have been into anime for a while by now, so I guess I probably did pick up more cultural background than the average newbie, but I'm not really that much into Japanese culture. In defense of my suggestion, I get the impression that the person we're trying to make suggestions for would not be one of the normal "Adult Swim" crowd. Otherwise, she probably would've already gotten hooked by Cartoon Network, and the original poster wouldn't have needed to ask for suggestions. I think people who are interested in soap operas are more likely than the Adult Swim crowd to be able to just pick up things like how Japanese bullying works from context. Still, I think you do have a good point.
Quote from: PyronIkari on November 27, 2007, 02:20:07 AMWestern vampire stories vary vastly according to where the story originates from(and none of them are actually American). Blood/Blood+ story take two different traditional vampire types.
I haven't seen Blood+ at all, but I saw Blood, and I thought it was average. In spite of it being about vampires (and in spite of me liking vampires), the movie didn't interest me. It completely lacked anything I like about "American vampires" -- or "Anne Rice vampires" if you prefer. (Anne Rice was born and raised in Louisiana, so I think her stories qualify as "American".) I don't think Anne Rice started the particular segment of vampire genre that I'm referring to, but if I had to choose one set of vampire stories that best represents what I like about "American vampires", it'd be Anne Rice. I don't know if that's what the person in question likes about vampire stories, but it's just what I immediately think of when someone puts "romanticism" and "vampires" together.
From what you said, it sounds like the problem with Blood+ and Trinity Blood might be that there's a lot of not-interesting stuff to slog through before getting to the good parts, and a newbie who didn't like Hellsing seems likely to give up on anime completely before getting to the second half of a series.
Quote from: PyronIkari on November 27, 2007, 02:20:07 AMBut show her Fushigi Yuugi. Girls eat it up for some reason. It's long, it's drama, it's got action but isn't too action based, it has sexy boys... and she'll fall in love with Tamahome just like everyone else.
Meh, I didn't fall in love with Tamahome, but I agree that Fushigi Yuugi is probably a good enough choice for a gateway anime. I liked Ayashi no Ceres much better. I had only been into anime for about a year when I came across Ayashi no Ceres, so I don't think it requires much cultural background. I think the anime explained all the culture stuff I needed.
Quote from: phoenixphire24 on November 27, 2007, 07:53:24 PM
I haven't had a chance to see it, but I hear Red Garden is good. It's not a typical vampire show, but she might like it.
Ooh! I'm not the original poster, but I haven't heard of that one before, and the Wiki entry for it sounds good. Thanks for mentioning it!
Quote from: PyronIkari on November 28, 2007, 02:38:05 AMXXXHolic would be a good show for her as well.
I haven't seen the anime, but the manga refers to a lot of things that seem specific to Japanese folklore. The whole concept of hitsuzen seems out of my grasp, and while there weren't many of them, I thought the references to Tsubasa Chronicles were rather annoying. (That said, I do like the XXXHolic manga. Not as much as I like Petshop of Horrors, but it's still good.)
Quote from: LordKefka on November 28, 2007, 01:21:48 AMTo the topic creator: Try out Moon Phase.
I don't have opinions about the series because I've only seen one episode of a fansub in a club, but if that series is going to be given any sort of chance whatsoever, please skip the intro. If I could've gone somewhere else and made it back to the club in time for the next anime, I would've walked out of the show due to the intro. Hopefully, they had the sense to remove the intro from auto-playing on the DVDs. The actual first episode did show some potential, but I think that intro utterly sinks the anime.
Quote from: PyronIkari on November 28, 2007, 03:33:16 AMOP: I haven't seen it myself, but apparently you might want to look up RG Veda. A lot of my female friends say it's a good choice, and it's not that hard to get into(OAV).
I thought RG Veda was a good manga. However, I encountered the OAV first, and while I did think it was interesting, I thought it was more confusing than interesting. (But that's why I had to get the manga...) It's not bad, but I thought the anime by itself is confusing and unsatisfying.
Quote from: Jun-Watarase on November 28, 2007, 04:10:39 AMAnyways, to save the OP trouble... here's a list of all the series suggested so far. Which ones to show her friend is entirely up to her. ... Paradise Kiss might be a good drama/romance series, too, but it can be... over-the-top, sometimes.
Hi! That isn't a list of all the shows suggested. You left out ALL of my soap opera suggestions. I agree that Peach Girl, Paradise Kiss, Hana Yori Dango, and Marmalade Boy are all over the top, but the person likes soap operas, many of which use the same over-the-top elements as these shoujo series. Granted, the soap opera-like anime tend to be aimed at a younger audience than soap operas, but we have no idea if they might work since we don't know the girl. "Over the top" might be exactly what she's looking for. I think those four series I named fit in with 90210 very well. I also think they're very easily accessible to any culture -- high school cliques seem to be nasty everywhere.
Along those lines, there's a small, unusual, little-known OAV called "Marriage". It was very cheap -- I picked it up on a whim just because it was only $5. I didn't expect much from it. It was short, but I thought it was interesting. It doesn't have vampire, fairy, or pixie fantasy elements, and it's rather soap-like.
Quote from: Jun-Watarase on November 28, 2007, 06:02:52 PMThat list I made in my earlier post was a list of ALL the series that this thread has suggested for her. ALL of them. Including Tsukuyomi.
I'm feeling very slighted and hurt now. ;_;
Quote from: Nyxyin on November 28, 2007, 07:19:11 PM
That's a good point. I have been into anime for a while by now, so I guess I probably did pick up more cultural background than the average newbie, but I'm not really that much into Japanese culture. In defense of my suggestion, I get the impression that the person we're trying to make suggestions for would not be one of the normal "Adult Swim" crowd. Otherwise, she probably would've already gotten hooked by Cartoon Network, and the original poster wouldn't have needed to ask for suggestions. I think people who are interested in soap operas are more likely than the Adult Swim crowd to be able to just pick up things like how Japanese bullying works from context. Still, I think you do have a good point.
Most of the time, you could say that, but not with Japanese bullying. Even when people see it in different comics, they still usually don't grasp why it's the way it is there. Because they have an American outlook and know about American bullys they tend to push that idea onto the Japanese outlook, and it doesn't work. The major difference between the two is why bullies act the way they do. Bullies in the US bully kids to make themselves feel superior and better. Bullies in Japan do it, to make the person feel weak, and non-existant. How they do it is very different, and that's why a lot of kids commit suicide in Japan. Battling a bully in the states means standing up for yourself, you can't do that in Japan. Standing up for yourself just makes things worse. They basically try to erase your existance, so that no one notices you, or pays any attention to you.
The entire mentallity of Jigoku Shoujo is a Japanese mentallity of "you are powerless and you shouldn't fight back". Japanese people are taught not to question their superiors, not to raise arguements, and to bear the pain you're given, and smile as you do you work. You have to put everything into your job and everything into studying because that is how you prove you are a good citizen. Again, that's why the suicide rate is so high in Japan. There are lots of nuances that the series plays on in the overall culture and mentallity. A series that I know a lot of people couldn't follow correctly.
QuoteI haven't seen Blood+ at all, but I saw Blood, and I thought it was average. In spite of it being about vampires (and in spite of me liking vampires), the movie didn't interest me. It completely lacked anything I like about "American vampires" -- or "Anne Rice vampires" if you prefer. (Anne Rice was born and raised in Louisiana, so I think her stories qualify as "American".) I don't think Anne Rice started the particular segment of vampire genre that I'm referring to, but if I had to choose one set of vampire stories that best represents what I like about "American vampires", it'd be Anne Rice. I don't know if that's what the person in question likes about vampire stories, but it's just what I immediately think of when someone puts "romanticism" and "vampires" together.
From what you said, it sounds like the problem with Blood+ and Trinity Blood might be that there's a lot of not-interesting stuff to slog through before getting to the good parts, and a newbie who didn't like Hellsing seems likely to give up on anime completely before getting to the second half of a series.
Anne Rice does do things that paly off original stories. Bram Stoker's, Dracula was a very romantic person. Blood+ has a lot of wading and action to get through before you start understanding the story of the characters. It's a tragic series but not until they start opening up the characters and what they feel(The introduction of who/what Diva is).
QuoteMeh, I didn't fall in love with Tamahome, but I agree that Fushigi Yuugi is probably a good enough choice for a gateway anime. I liked Ayashi no Ceres much better. I had only been into anime for about a year when I came across Ayashi no Ceres, so I don't think it requires much cultural background. I think the anime explained all the culture stuff I needed.
Oh, I agree completely with Ayashi no Ceres as well. ^^
QuoteI haven't seen the anime, but the manga refers to a lot of things that seem specific to Japanese folklore. The whole concept of hitsuzen seems out of my grasp, and while there weren't many of them, I thought the references to Tsubasa Chronicles were rather annoying. (That said, I do like the XXXHolic manga. Not as much as I like Petshop of Horrors, but it's still good.)
Their minor and unimportant references to understand the main point. The anime was made more simple than the comic, I'm not a fan of either, but I usually don't like Clamp's work to be honest. It's a little to over the top and catering to females. It's a reason why I suggest it.
QuoteI don't have opinions about the series because I've only seen one episode of a fansub in a club, but if that series is going to be given any sort of chance whatsoever, please skip the intro. If I could've gone somewhere else and made it back to the club in time for the next anime, I would've walked out of the show due to the intro. Hopefully, they had the sense to remove the intro from auto-playing on the DVDs. The actual first episode did show some potential, but I think that intro utterly sinks the anime.
The further it goes the more the series is a reflection of the opening. It starts straying away from a point to just be cute a lot.
QuoteI thought RG Veda was a good manga. However, I encountered the OAV first, and while I did think it was interesting, I thought it was more confusing than interesting. (But that's why I had to get the manga...) It's not bad, but I thought the anime by itself is confusing and unsatisfying.
Point taken, maybe she shouldn't watch it then.
QuoteHi! That isn't a list of all the shows suggested. You left out ALL of my soap opera suggestions. I agree that Peach Girl, Paradise Kiss, Hana Yori Dango, and Marmalade Boy are all over the top, but the person likes soap operas, many of which use the same over-the-top elements as these shoujo series. Granted, the soap opera-like anime tend to be aimed at a younger audience than soap operas, but we have no idea if they might work since we don't know the girl. "Over the top" might be exactly what she's looking for. I think those four series I named fit in with 90210 very well. I also think they're very easily accessible to any culture -- high school cliques seem to be nasty everywhere.
I'm afraid that peach girl, hana yori dango, and marmalade boy will turn her away due to the art. Well maybe not Peach Girl, but the other two definitely. The art is rather girlish and the drama is a little over the top. Although it's really mature in subject matter and what not, I don't think she'll see it as that. I think after she starts getting used to the styling, all of them would be great suggestions.
Quote from: Nyxyin on November 28, 2007, 07:19:11 PM
Quote from: Jun-Watarase on November 28, 2007, 04:10:39 AMAnyways, to save the OP trouble... here's a list of all the series suggested so far. Which ones to show her friend is entirely up to her. ... Paradise Kiss might be a good drama/romance series, too, but it can be... over-the-top, sometimes.
Hi! That isn't a list of all the shows suggested. You left out ALL of my soap opera suggestions.
Oh, thanks for pointing that out. I must've missed it. Sorry. XD;
Vampire-related:Karin
Tsukuyomi: Moon Phase
Trinity Blood
Shingetsutan Tsukihime
Rosario+Vampire
Vampire Knight
Vampire Princess Miyu
Gankutsuou
Action & Fantasy:Romeo x Juliet
12 Kokuki
Mermaid Forest - Series
Jigoku Shoujo
Yami no Matsuei
Fushigi Yuugi
Ayashi no Ceres
Saiunkoku
Princess Tutu
Angel Sanctuary
Red Garden
XXXHolic
RG Veda
Cardcaptor Sakura
Sailor Moon
Revolutionary Girl Utena
Drama:Peace Girl
Paradise Kiss
Marmalade Boy
Hana Yori Dango
Emma
Marriage
Quote from: Nyxyin on November 28, 2007, 07:27:16 PM
Quote from: Jun-Watarase on November 28, 2007, 06:02:52 PMThat list I made in my earlier post was a list of ALL the series that this thread has suggested for her. ALL of them. Including Tsukuyomi.
I'm feeling very slighted and hurt now. ;_;
Gah! I'm really sorry. I really didn't mean to. @__@;
Quote from: Jun-Watarase on November 28, 2007, 07:58:58 PMGah! I'm really sorry. I really didn't mean to. @__@;
All better now! Thanks for the updated list! :)
I think Twelve Kingdoms is a great anime, by the way.
From a quick web search, Saiunkoku looks very pretty. I guess I'm out of it, since I haven't heard of that anime before either. It looks like it might be a cross between Twelve Kingdoms and Fushigi Yuugi.
How about Revolutionary Girl Utena? It deals with tons of romanticism. It may not be vampire romanticism but it has all that classic heroism with princes etc. It has a nice shoujo feel to it so it might appeal to your friend. However she might be turned off by mass amounts of symbolism...I know I was. Just start her off with the series and not the movie. Movie is confusing as hell.
Quote from: aznmagic2015 on November 28, 2007, 08:56:11 PM
How about Revolutionary Girl Utena? It deals with tons of romanticism. It may not be vampire romanticism but it has all that classic heroism with princes etc. It has a nice shoujo feel to it so it might appeal to your friend. However she might be turned off by mass amounts of symbolism...I know I was. Just start her off with the series and not the movie. Movie is confusing as hell.
I'm not sure, but I feel that Utena might be a bit overwhelming.
Yeah I agree...the symbolism in the series would be overwhelming. But if her friend is an avid reader she could follow along. Utena still has a nice romantic angle that could be enjoyed without figuring out the symbolism. I didn't get most of the symbolism when I first watched it. I was like "LOL WTF is this shit!?!?!" a couple of times but I still kinda enjoyed it.
I'm going to stray away from anime and manga a bit here to address this...
Quote from: PyronIkari on November 28, 2007, 07:49:00 PMMost of the time, you could say that, but not with Japanese bullying. Even when people see it in different comics, they still usually don't grasp why it's the way it is there. Because they have an American outlook and know about American bullys they tend to push that idea onto the Japanese outlook, and it doesn't work. The major difference between the two is why bullies act the way they do. Bullies in the US bully kids to make themselves feel superior and better. Bullies in Japan do it, to make the person feel weak, and non-existant. How they do it is very different, and that's why a lot of kids commit suicide in Japan. Battling a bully in the states means standing up for yourself, you can't do that in Japan. Standing up for yourself just makes things worse. They basically try to erase your existance, so that no one notices you, or pays any attention to you.
The entire mentallity of Jigoku Shoujo is a Japanese mentallity of "you are powerless and you shouldn't fight back". Japanese people are taught not to question their superiors, not to raise arguements, and to bear the pain you're given, and smile as you do you work. You have to put everything into your job and everything into studying because that is how you prove you are a good citizen. Again, that's why the suicide rate is so high in Japan. There are lots of nuances that the series plays on in the overall culture and mentallity. A series that I know a lot of people couldn't follow correctly.
Thank you very much for explaining all that. I didn't really understand what you had meant by "Japanese bullying" earlier.
However, I don't think what you typed is uniquely Japanese, and I think it's very much present in much of the United States. I would guess that you and the people you're talking about who don't understand it either aren't female or Christian or are raised during or after the tech boom era. I think the ("American") reaction to bullying you're talking about was rather male in nature until after politically-correct jargon had reached subconscious integration into the population around the mid-to-late 90's or so. Until that point, what you describe as reactions to "Japanese bullying" strikes me as what gets taught to little Christian girls. I'm not Christian, but I got sent to a Catholic elementary school for a year (yes, in the United States), and that's exactly what I was taught: always obey God without question (and authority figures know more about what God wants than you do), take whatever misfortune life hands out without complaint because God might be testing you (as in the story of Job), don't argue (because God is always right and we puny humans are incapable of understanding the reason anyways), and work hard, behave, and suffer in silence during this life because God will know and it will earn you a better afterlife.
Furthermore, girls are supposed to be sugar and spice and everything nice. Until the 90s or so, girls have also been trained to not fight back overtly either. Girls are taught to play the social game. Unless they're still pre-teens today, I think American girls are likely to understand "Japanese bullying" better than American boys. A lot of boys seem to remain blissfully unaware of the subtle psychological environments that girls have to go through when growing up. I think it prepares girls better for understanding social nuances such as the ones you called "Japanese bullying".
So, I don't really know much about Japanese culture, but I do understand what you said is "Japanese bullying" from an American point of view.
And, even if people don't understand every last culture-specific nuance, I think Jigoku Shoujo was still an intriguing series without full understanding. Hm... Maybe I should learn more about Japanese culture and watch it again to see if I get even more out of it...
Quote from: Jun-Watarase on November 28, 2007, 09:11:45 PM
Quote from: aznmagic2015 on November 28, 2007, 08:56:11 PM
How about Revolutionary Girl Utena? It deals with tons of romanticism. It may not be vampire romanticism but it has all that classic heroism with princes etc. It has a nice shoujo feel to it so it might appeal to your friend. However she might be turned off by mass amounts of symbolism...I know I was. Just start her off with the series and not the movie. Movie is confusing as hell.
I'm not sure, but I feel that Utena might be a bit overwhelming.
100% agree. That series was great in the begining, but creeped me out by the end. It's a great series, but not something I'd start her off with.
There have been some really great suggestions. I'm particularly fond of the Count of Monte Cristo. I was a HUGE Dumas fan in school and I've been looking for a reason to make myself buy this one. :D She's an avid reader too, so she might really enjoy that. I'll have to talk to her and see if she was a Dumas fan as well.
In all honesty I think Fushigi Yuugi might win in the long run. But this gives me a great list to work from, including some suggestions of series I think I want to look into for myself. I really appreciate the thought everyone put into this.
Sorry to sorta high-jack this thread BrightHeart
Quote from: Nyxyin on November 28, 2007, 10:04:30 PM
Thank you very much for explaining all that. I didn't really understand what you had meant by "Japanese bullying" earlier.
However, I don't think what you typed is uniquely Japanese, and I think it's very much present in much of the United States. I would guess that you and the people you're talking about who don't understand it either aren't female or Christian or are raised during or after the tech boom era. I think the ("American") reaction to bullying you're talking about was rather male in nature until after politically-correct jargon had reached subconscious integration into the population around the mid-to-late 90's or so. Until that point, what you describe as reactions to "Japanese bullying" strikes me as what gets taught to little Christian girls. I'm not Christian, but I got sent to a Catholic elementary school for a year (yes, in the United States), and that's exactly what I was taught: always obey God without question (and authority figures know more about what God wants than you do), take whatever misfortune life hands out without complaint because God might be testing you (as in the story of Job), don't argue (because God is always right and we puny humans are incapable of understanding the reason anyways), and work hard, behave, and suffer in silence during this life because God will know and it will earn you a better afterlife.
Furthermore, girls are supposed to be sugar and spice and everything nice. Until the 90s or so, girls have also been trained to not fight back overtly either. Girls are taught to play the social game. Unless they're still pre-teens today, I think American girls are likely to understand "Japanese bullying" better than American boys. A lot of boys seem to remain blissfully unaware of the subtle psychological environments that girls have to go through when growing up. I think it prepares girls better for understanding social nuances such as the ones you called "Japanese bullying".
I was born and raised Catholic, and I have 4 older sisters.
Girls would understand it a little better, but I emphasize only a little better. The level it's done in Japan isn't even close to what is done in the US. In the US, it's extreme if someone sabotages a relationship, or tries to humiliate them by having stuff dumped on them while they're in the bathroom. Things in teen movies are seen as extreme... Things in teen movies are a *JOKE* compared to the extremes that can happen in Japan.
When a girl in the US gets gang raped by 5 guys because a girl doesn't like her... then you'll be able to tell me it's similar in the US. Granted this doesn't happen everyday at every school or anything like that, but it does happen, and it's not as selective as "oh it's an isolated even that happened once" kind of thing either. People getting locked in sheds... things to completely break them down. Driving someone to suicide, is almost a goal.
QuoteSo, I don't really know much about Japanese culture, but I do understand what you said is "Japanese bullying" from an American point of view.
And, even if people don't understand every last culture-specific nuance, I think Jigoku Shoujo was still an intriguing series without full understanding. Hm... Maybe I should learn more about Japanese culture and watch it again to see if I get even more out of it...
In Jigoku Shoujo, the basis of everything they do is so Japanese oriented. You can understand the basis of the story, but you can't really understand the characters and why they act the way they do unless you understand the culture. I honestly don't expect people to believe or fully understand what I mean by that. There's just so much Japanese mentallity that goes into the characters that knowing is a subtle difference between seeing actions and seeing why the actions exist.
BrightHeart: Gankutsuo is one of the best series I've seen in general. It's definitely worth getting.
Quote from: PyronIkari on November 28, 2007, 11:26:12 PMWhen a girl in the US gets gang raped by 5 guys because a girl doesn't like her... then you'll be able to tell me it's similar in the US.
I suppose the following incident is two guys short, the motive isn't clear, nor is it certain she did it, but the concept of girl-instigated gang rape isn't foreign here, or at least not foreign to Los Angeles: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/wnba/2003-08-13-byears-investigation_x.htm "Former WNBA player Latasha Byears [...] and three men who have no connection to the Sparks allegedly raped the victim".
Yeah, but that's 30 year old women, not high school(or even Jr. High School) girls. Pictures of said girl getting raped isn't being passed around the school. She isn't getting threatened with acts on her little sister.
The mentallity in Japan on a lot of things are very different than in the US. Work ethic, how they view people, and how people think they're supposed to act. Let's go with less extreme. Why do so many salary men commit suicide in Japan? Because they don't speak, or act, and dedicate their lives to their work, because they're raised to do that. In Japan, you don't take sick days unless you are REALLY sick. You have a fever, bad cough, too bad... you take medicine, put on a medical mask, and go to work. Your boss is stupid and screws up things, and you have to fix it, don't dare bring it up, because that would mean talking badly about someone.
This one isn't too hard to understand, because it does happen a lot in the US. But ignoring things, and pretending they're not happening. You walk along the street, and a woman falls down... do you stop to look, or help? In Japan people will glance, and continue walking without a second thought to help her. You see someone stealing something, do you mention it to the workers there, or do you pretend not to see it? If someone stands in your way do you say something to them to get out of the way, or do you quietly just shift to the side and attempt to get around them?
Japanese mentallity is to try to cause as little problem, try to bring as little attention, and try to not disrupt anything in anyway shape or form. Things are slowly changing from this mindset, but it's still very apparent. I could be a total asshole, and block the escalator at a busy train station, and frankly, no one would say anything to me... they'd just try their best to get around. Even if I moved back and forth to block them even more, no one would really say anything, and if someone had the balls to, I'd just start cussing in English, and I know they'd shut up, put their head down and just try to get pass. They'd probably apologize to me, if they bumped into my shoulder while trying to get pass as well.
Really, the understanding of the JP culture is a lot different than people think. A lot of people make bad assumptions due to media, comics, cartoons, and badly written news reports. There's hints of truths in these mediums, but for the most part, a lot of them are horrible ways to learn about the culture. Most of what I learned from the culture was through various people that I met growing up, my friends parents, friends I met, and things that I actually looked up on my own(not through normal sources like news and what not, but through journals and private JP forums). The anonyminity of the internet allowed a lot of people to release their frustrations and what not without fear of being looked down upon by colleagues and peers.
It's a lot about mentallity. The JP mentallity is so very different than the American mentallity.
Quote from: PyronIkari on November 28, 2007, 11:26:12 PM
Sorry to sorta high-jack this thread BrightHeart
No worries. I got the information I needed, and this is a logical progression of the conversation. It's actually very interesting to read. :D