Ok so I know many of you are trying to figure out finances early so you can start saving to have a great FanimeCon...and good for you! Below is a sample budget that I"ve put together that includes some of the basic costs (food and lodging) along with fun stuff like the dealers room and arcade. I believe that by using this model you can get a better idea of how much you and your friends should bring to the convention to have a great time. ^_^
Hotel Costs
I will be using the Marriott as an example, but if you're choosing a different hotel just use my formula to figure out individual rates per day as well as for the whole weekend.
109 per night (Marriott, 2 bed) X 3= 327
+ 20% tax means it'll be about 393.
Divide that by 4 and it will be 98 dollars per resident for three nights. Not bad. About 33 dollars per person per night.
If you're staying on Thursday as well, the total will be 524 for 4 nights...or 130 dollars per resident for four nights. Staying on Thursday night is not necessary, but can definitely help for picking up your badge/starting in on Fanime nice and early on Friday. This may not be an option for those of you still in High School...but you can figure that out yourselves lol.
So, basically, assume 100 dollars per person for three nights in a hotel. Or 135 for four nights.
Food Budget
Food budget is variable...it depends on if you eat breakfast or whatever. Assuming you want to grab something for breakfast assume the following meals per day:
(If arriving on Thursday night)
Thursday-Dinner (15)
Friday- Breakfast (10), Lunch (10), Dinner (15)
Saturday- Breakfast (10), Lunch (10), Dinner (15)
Sunday- Breakfast (10), Lunch (10), Dinner (15)
Monday- Breakfast (10), Lunch (15) (one or the other could be eliminated on the last day)
So total food budget could be roughly 145 dollars...if you get there friday afternoon then it would be 110 dollars if you eat breakfast. If you get there Friday afternoon and don't eat breakfast then the budget is about 90 dollars.
Again this depends on personal preference and where exactly you want to eat. If you just eat Jack and the Box and McDonalds all weekend you can save a ton, but I wouldn't recommend it. Because by Monday you feel like crap. >_<
Try to bring snacks to your hotel room. Mini-fridges are in short supply so if you ask really early you can get one, that will help with the food issue.
So now your total budget has come to a total of 280 dollars if you're arriving Thursday night and eating all meals, 210 dollars if you arrive Friday afternoon and eat all meals, or 190 dollars if you arrive on Friday afternoon and don't eat breakfast.
FUN STUFF!
Now, what FanimeCon is complete without a trip to the dealers hall? My first suggestion, especially to those who will be there every day, is to TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE SWAP MEET!! You will find great deals here on DVDs, wall scrolls, figures and other random assortments, mostly in good condition, of things that people don't want or need anymore.
I would bring 50 dollars to the swap meet, this should land you a nice stack of DVDs/Figures/Manga.
Dealers room, while huge and full of shiny things, is usually pretty steep. I would wait until Sunday or Monday morning to do your big shopping, since being broke on Sunday/Monday is probably the worst thing. You're kind of wandering around being bored and not being able to buy anything. Not fun.
Wall scrolls were in short supply last year, but you can typically find them for deals like 2 for 20 or 3 for 25 even. I wouldn't recommend purchasing DVDs in the dealers room, as most of the time they are far more expensive than trusted online retailers such as www.rightstuf.com or www.deepdiscount.com .
If you bring 50 dollars to the swap meet, I would suggest about 200 dollars for the dealers hall, bringing total spending money to about 250, and your overall budget to the following:
If you arrive on Thursday night, eat all meals and bring 250 dollars in spending money: $530
If you arrive on Friday night, eat all meals and bring 250 dollars in spending money: $460
If you arrive on Friday night, skip breakfast and bring 250 dollars in spending money: $440
Keep in mind that 200 dollars in the dealers hall is still a decent amount of swag. A few DVDs, a couple wall scrolls, a soundtrack, a figure or two and a shirt is probably what you'll end up with, not to mention whatever you can snag at the swap meet. If this is your first convention, you can plan on bringing less money because you will be running around to panels, AMV contests, cosplay competitions and showing rooms all day long and won't really have time to do much shopping. ^_^ Don't forget about Artist Alley either!
Finally, if you're a big gamer type...you'll need a separate budget amount for arcade stuff. Games are pretty steep, like 50 cents to a dollar per play. However, some of these games are tons of fun and you'll want to play them more than once. Waiting for consoles may take some time, but the import games are usually tons of fun to play too. Bring about 30-40 dollars for arcade stuff if you're planning on being there often.
IMPORTANT THINGS TO REMEMBER
1) SET ASIDE THE HOTEL MONEY!! I can't tell you how many stories I've heard about people who go to the checkout on Monday and realize that their roommates have either:
a) Spent all their money over the weekend and don't have their share for the room.
b) Disappeared like ninjas on Sunday night and left the card-holder to front the whole bill.
Collect the money for the hotel the DAY THEY ARRIVE! Many hotels will take the payments early so you can give them the payment for the hotel the day you check in. This is probably for the best, especially if you (or your roommates) are at Fanimecon for the first time.
2) DON'T SPEND YOUR FOOD MONEY ON ANYTHING OTHER THAN! Nothing's worse than starving on Sunday and monday because you spent all your money by Saturday night. If you have any surplus of your food budget, wait until Monday to use it.
3) WAIT TO DO MOST OF YOUR SHOPPING UNTIL SUNDAY/MONDAY! The only thing you should buy on Friday or Saturday are limited edition or rare items that you think won't last until Sunday or Monday. Even then, most of the time these retailers (especially if they're local) will re-stock over the weekend.
Well, that's about it.I hope this helps you guys! Let me know if you have any questions.
Tips offered by other Board-frequenters[/i]
Phoenixphire24-
Dealers room: I found it really helpful last year to make a list of things I knew I was looking for. Then I went around the internet and found out how much these items cost (plus shipping). That way I could browse the dealer's room and know when I was getting a deal and when I should wait. I haven't tried it, but it might help you bargan down some prices as well. As Guru said, unless you're getting a super deal, DVDs are usually cheaper online. The manga sellers actually had some good deals if you wanted to buy 4-5+ books; mostly a buy 4 get one free sort of thing. Of course, you have to bring some extra money for the dealer's room for those things you happen to find and can't live without right there and then.
Food: If you want to save on food, don't buy the food at the convention center. It's expensive and you don't get all that much food. It's better to walk a few blocks from the convention center. There are several mexican places with great cheap burritos.
Hotel: Make sure that you also factor in parking!
Kyraensui -
Luckily, the Hilton has mini fridges in the rooms already so I don't need to request one. Just in case, bringing a cooler is an awesome idea since yeah, the fridge has limited space to place our drinks. XD I intend to bring 2 cases of bottle waters for the convention for my roommates.
I agree. If you just walk outside of the convention center, you would find cheap foods. I even walk as far as Albertson to do some food shopping. Even times, I don't mind driving all the way to SJ Mitsuwa to buy some Japanese bentos and snacks too. XD Even stop by a bit at Kinokuniya too.
If you going to park at the convention center, I would wait until Friday when they are cheaper. T_T My friend and I paid $18 on Thursday, but found out it's $10 each day starting on Friday until Monday. Most hotels do give In & Out privileges so it's great when not losing your parking space.
Jeans -
Food will not cost you that much! La Victoria's taqueria sells breakfast burritos for $1.50 (or $1.75? i dunno, under two dollars) that are very filling and nutritious (eggs and protein!). Also, I would not buy the food from the convention vendors--it's all incredibly marked up. There are many restaurants downtown where you can buy really tasty and healthy food for cheap. Try Pita Pit, La Vic's, Iguana's, or even one of the pizza places! There is even a sushi place in Plaza de San Antonio (like 2 streets away from the con).
As for the walking around at night comment...I personally would, but I would be cautious. Always go with a group of friends to be on the safe side! Many of the restaurants downtown are open late for the people leaving clubs and such.
Heeroyuy
What I did last year was I bought a lot of bottled water - I got 4 cases of 24 bottles from Smart and Final for about $20. Since the group I was in had two rooms, I decided to get 2 cases for each room.
It was a good idea since you save a lot of money on drinks (plus water and, to a certain extent, sports drinks like Gatorade are better for you over the weekend than sodas and energy drinks), but since we stayed at the Crowne Plaza, the accessibility for that water was not immediate, as we had to walk across the street to get to the hotel.
I'm going to do it again this year, and since I'm staying at the Marriot I can always retreat into my room, cool off with water, then go back without having to travel far. This way, the accessibility is much higher.
When I figured out my budget, I used a guide that is provided by the community college district (thank god for my ASG connections Smiley) to determine food budgets for traveling for conferences and other related events that require some sort of stipend. When I go back next week, I'll get one and provide it so that you can figure out it on a form.
I got the figures!
* Breakfast: $9
* Lunch: $12
* Dinner: $21
That comes out to $42 a day, that's not including other items like snacks or drinks on the side.
Again, this is from a form that calculates stipend costs for travel provided by the community college district that I attend.
In reality, no one has $42 for food unless you have a ton of disposable income.
I can see something like this:
* Breakfast: $6.75
* Lunch: $9
* Dinner: $15.75
That knocks it down to $31.50.
I say that these amounts are recommended so that you get the food that you need to keep yourself at optimum level while at FanimeCon
Moonblossom -
For more really tasty and relatively inexpensive food, there's the Asquew Grill.
http://www.asqewgrill.com/
A friend and I stumbled across this place while roaming around looking for dinner one night after everything else was closed, and omg, it's fabulous. The meat is really juicy and tender, and every single one of their sides that we ended up trying were awesome. We went back the next night with a larger group actually, and didn't mind at all.
It's not quite as cheap as La Victoria, but it's so delicious.
And, um, interesting tidbit that I possibly should not be promoting, they never carded me ><. I was 25 at the time so it wasn't an issue one way or the other, but it's handy to know. Should you have, um, forgotten your ID at the hotel, of course.
Superkawaiineko-
I've been doing this for more than ten years now, and I've been to cons as far away as AX. You guys seem to have the money covered, but I've got one tip for you, and that is to always have some extra money (if you can spare it, not everyone can.)
We call this the "Holy Shit! Fund" and the farther away from con you are, the larger this needs to be. If you're local, you could probably get away with around twenty dollars or so. If you're a couple hours away, you'll want at least 50 to 100. If youre from down south or out of state, $100 to $200 is nice. Sometimes, things dont go according to plan. Sometimes, unexpected things happen. And then you go "Holy shit! I need cash!" This is where the Holy Shit! Fund comes into play. Perhaps gremlins poke holes in your tire and you need to buy a new one. Maybe you lose track of time and miss your train, and you need to buy a new ticket. Maybe the omg BEST. BAND. EVAR. is playing one night only and you NEED to go see them. Maybe your friend gets arrested and you need to post bail. Maybe the roads get closed or the train breaks down and you need cash for another night at the hotel.
Maybe you meet the girl or guy of your dreams and decide to elope.
All of these reasons and more is why we have the Holy Shit! Fund. Have any of them ever happened to me? Nope. Do I still set money aside whenever I have enough to spare? Hell yes. You also have to remember that the unexpected can happen both on the way to the con, at the con itself, and on the way home. I suggest setting aside an amount that you deem appropriate, and keeping that money entirely seperate from your normal money (keep it in a different wallet in a different spot on your person, or even leave it in the hotel room (in a place where the cleaning lady wont think it's for her.)) Dont spend it until monday, and if you can keep at least half of it just in case of emergencies on the way home (sometimes I spend my food money and use the remainder of The Fund for food on the way back XD)
Will you need it? Probably not. But if you don't prepare and you end up wishing you had it, I hope you think of meee~ ^_^
thanks much for posting this, it'll help a lot! *my friend and I were hashing out pricing just this morning...*
Quote from: FanFicGuru on December 13, 2007, 01:56:55 PM
Try to bring snacks to your hotel room. Mini-fridges are in short supply so if you ask really early you can get one, that will help with the food issue.
So I was talking to our hotel rep about this...
STOP ASKING FOR MINI FRIDGES!All the hotels keep these in short supply and they are reserved for those for MEDICAL REQUESTS.
I never really thought about it till she brought it up, but wouldn't you feel bad if you took a mini fridge for keeping snacks and someone who needed it, ie: for insulin or something, and they were out? Just to keep your drinks cold...
I felt bad about thinking about asking for one after we talked about it...
If you can, bring a cooler with you. Just fill it with ice from the vending machines (um, remember to dump the melted ice in the bathtub). And sodas are okay room temp, again, just grab ice for your drinks. Bring extra cups because the ones in the hotel room, if you get any, are limited and small. We actually used the ice bucket in the room as a mini fridge for cheese sticks.
Actually the cooler idea is a really good one. Karen, didn't realize about the mini-fridge thing. *guilty*
Anyways, my friends brought a cooler last year and it worked out great. So yeah, cooler is definitely a better option.
Dealer room: I found it really helpful last year to make a list of things I knew I was looking for. Then I went around the internet and found out how much these items cost (plus shipping). That way I could browse the dealer's room and know when I was getting a deal and when I should wait. I haven't tried it, but it might help you bargan down some prices as well. As Guru said, unless you're getting a super deal, DVDs are usually cheaper online. The manga sellers actually had some good deals if you wanted to buy 4-5+ books; mostly a buy 4 get one free sort of thing. Of course, you have to bring some extra money for the dealer's room for those things you happen to find and can't live without right there and then.
Food: If you want to save on food, don't buy the food at the convention center. It's expensive and you don't get all that much food. It's better to walk a few blocks from the convention center. There are several mexican places with great cheap burritos.
Hotel: Make sure that you also factor in parking!
Quote from: phoenixphire24 on December 14, 2007, 09:20:23 AM
Dealer room: I found it really helpful last year to make a list of things I knew I was looking for. Then I went around the internet and found out how much these items cost (plus shipping). That way I could browse the dealer's room and know when I was getting a deal and when I should wait. I haven't tried it, but it might help you bargan down some prices as well. As Guru said, unless you're getting a super deal, DVDs are usually cheaper online. The manga sellers actually had some good deals if you wanted to buy 4-5+ books; mostly a buy 4 get one free sort of thing. Of course, you have to bring some extra money for the dealer's room for those things you happen to find and can't live without right there and then.
Food: If you want to save on food, don't buy the food at the convention center. It's expensive and you don't get all that much food. It's better to walk a few blocks from the convention center. There are several mexican places with great cheap burritos.
Hotel: Make sure that you also factor in parking!
More great ideas. I'll put these in the main post as people add stuff. And thanks for reminding me about parking costs! I usually get dropped off and stay for the weekend so parking isn't a cost for me. >_<
Keep the additions coming in you guys. ^_^
Luckily, the Hilton has mini fridges in the rooms already so I don't need to request one. Just in case, bringing a cooler is an awesome idea since yeah, the fridge has limited space to place our drinks. XD I intend to bring 2 cases of bottle waters for the convention for my roommates.
I agree. If you just walk outside of the convention center, you would find cheap foods. I even walk as far as Albertson to do some food shopping. Even times, I don't mind driving all the way to SJ Mitsuwa to buy some Japanese bentos and snacks too. XD Even stop by a bit at Kinokuniya too.
If you going to park at the convention center, I would wait until Friday when they are cheaper. T_T My friend and I paid $18 on Thursday, but found out it's $10 each day starting on Friday until Monday. Most hotels do give In & Out privileges so it's great when not losing your parking space.
So, it's best to save up now until Fanime. I know I am.
============================================
I'll use the Hilton for example since I'll be staying there. I've done this before so it's quite effective and it helps to learn math too~! The date is Thursday, May 22 to Monday, May 26.
$109.00 x 4 = $436.00 with 10.07% hotel tax = $479.91
Let's say I have 6 people in my room so it would come out like: $479.91 / 6 = $79.98 + $5 = $85
The reason I added the $5 would in case of other charges or fees they might add on when staying. It's a give or take on that part, but it's up to the person in charge how much they want to charge. If you can, it's best to get the payment for the hotel rooms like about a day or so before Fanime to ensure that they're not staying for free. I know I asked for payment when they step in the room or I won't give them a key card. That's my rule. No payment = No key card. Unless you have a generous roommate who don't mind paying it all. I know I had one and the only payment I have to give is food. ^^b
Quote from: KyraEnsui on December 14, 2007, 03:08:07 PM
Luckily, the Hilton has mini fridges in the rooms already so I don't need to request one. Just in case, bringing a cooler is an awesome idea since yeah, the fridge has limited space to place our drinks. XD I intend to bring 2 cases of bottle waters for the convention for my roommates.
I agree. If you just walk outside of the convention center, you would find cheap foods. I even walk as far as Albertson to do some food shopping. Even times, I don't mind driving all the way to SJ Mitsuwa to buy some Japanese bentos and snacks too. XD Even stop by a bit at Kinokuniya too.
If you going to park at the convention center, I would wait until Friday when they are cheaper. T_T My friend and I paid $18 on Thursday, but found out it's $10 each day starting on Friday until Monday. Most hotels do give In & Out privileges so it's great when not losing your parking space.
So, it's best to save up now until Fanime. I know I am.
============================================
I'll use the Hilton for example since I'll be staying there. I've done this before so it's quite effective and it helps to learn math too~! The date is Thursday, May 22 to Monday, May 26.
$109.00 x 4 = $436.00 with 10.07% hotel tax = $479.91
Let's say I have 6 people in my room so it would come out like: $479.91 / 6 = $79.98 + $5 = $85
The reason I added the $5 would in case of other charges or fees they might add on when staying. It's a give or take on that part, but it's up to the person in charge how much they want to charge. If you can, it's best to get the payment for the hotel rooms like about a day or so before Fanime to ensure that they're not staying for free. I know I asked for payment when they step in the room or I won't give them a key card. That's my rule. No payment = No key card. Unless you have a generous roommate who don't mind paying it all. I know I had one and the only payment I have to give is food. ^^b
Your example is great except for one thing-
You can only have up to 4 people in your rooms. This is really important people, and if you are caught exceeding the maximum occupancy you and your guests will be asked to leave. It happened last year.
So please, don't chance it and don't ruin Fanime-goers reputation with the hotels by putting any more than 4 people in a room. That's all.
Quote from: LadyKaren on December 13, 2007, 03:35:50 PM
Quote from: FanFicGuru on December 13, 2007, 01:56:55 PM
Try to bring snacks to your hotel room. Mini-fridges are in short supply so if you ask really early you can get one, that will help with the food issue.
So I was talking to our hotel rep about this...
STOP ASKING FOR MINI FRIDGES!
All the hotels keep these in short supply and they are reserved for those for MEDICAL REQUESTS.
I never really thought about it till she brought it up, but wouldn't you feel bad if you took a mini fridge for keeping snacks and someone who needed it, ie: for insulin or something, and they were out? Just to keep your drinks cold...
I felt bad about thinking about asking for one after we talked about it...
Counting on the hotel, this might not be a problem (Fairmont, St. Claire are examples) , since certain hotels come with mini's and for those of you who need it for medical purposes, they should be requesting them when they book the room as medical need, which gives them high priority.
Craige...
Quote from: phoenixphire24 on December 14, 2007, 09:20:23 AM
Dealer room: I found it really helpful last year to make a list of things I knew I was looking for. Then I went around the internet and found out how much these items cost (plus shipping). That way I could browse the dealer's room and know when I was getting a deal and when I should wait. I haven't tried it, but it might help you bargan down some prices as well. As Guru said, unless you're getting a super deal, DVDs are usually cheaper online. The manga sellers actually had some good deals if you wanted to buy 4-5+ books; mostly a buy 4 get one free sort of thing. Of course, you have to bring some extra money for the dealer's room for those things you happen to find and can't live without right there and then.
Food: If you want to save on food, don't buy the food at the convention center. It's expensive and you don't get all that much food. It's better to walk a few blocks from the convention center. There are several mexican places with great cheap burritos.
Hotel: Make sure that you also factor in parking!
The food court in the convention center in the exhibit halls isn't exactly great and is aimed at business groups that come in during the week, Fanime does in fact have several food vendors who are offering a variety of Asian foods that you can't get within three or five blocks of the convention center, such as sushi, beef bowls, etc.
While it is safe to walk around downtown after dark, how many young ladies, wearing a Cosplay are willing to walk several blocks to get to a fast food place?
Craige...
Quote from: KyraEnsui on December 14, 2007, 03:08:07 PM
Luckily, the Hilton has mini fridges in the rooms already so I don't need to request one. Just in case, bringing a cooler is an awesome idea since yeah, the fridge has limited space to place our drinks. XD I intend to bring 2 cases of bottle waters for the convention for my roommates.
I agree. If you just walk outside of the convention center, you would find cheap foods. I even walk as far as Albertson to do some food shopping. Even times, I don't mind driving all the way to SJ Mitsuwa to buy some Japanese bentos and snacks too. XD Even stop by a bit at Kinokuniya too.
If you going to park at the convention center, I would wait until Friday when they are cheaper. T_T My friend and I paid $18 on Thursday, but found out it's $10 each day starting on Friday until Monday. Most hotels do give In & Out privileges so it's great when not losing your parking space.
So, it's best to save up now until Fanime. I know I am.
============================================
I'll use the Hilton for example since I'll be staying there. I've done this before so it's quite effective and it helps to learn math too~! The date is Thursday, May 22 to Monday, May 26.
$109.00 x 4 = $436.00 with 10.07% hotel tax = $479.91
Let's say I have 6 people in my room so it would come out like: $479.91 / 6 = $79.98 + $5 = $85
The reason I added the $5 would in case of other charges or fees they might add on when staying. It's a give or take on that part, but it's up to the person in charge how much they want to charge. If you can, it's best to get the payment for the hotel rooms like about a day or so before Fanime to ensure that they're not staying for free. I know I asked for payment when they step in the room or I won't give them a key card. That's my rule. No payment = No key card. Unless you have a generous roommate who don't mind paying it all. I know I had one and the only payment I have to give is food. ^^b
Slight mistake in the math concerning the hotel room.
Room rate: $109.00
City Tax: 8.75% (or is it 8.25%)
Hotel Tax: 10.75%
Room rate with Tax: $130.25
Split among four bodies: $32.56 each
As for other charges, there should be, but if you find one, you should let CMR know immediately and ask them about it. They can normally be found near REG before, during and after the convention.
Craige...
Quote from: PassingTheBuck on December 19, 2007, 11:46:58 AM
Quote from: phoenixphire24 on December 14, 2007, 09:20:23 AM
Dealer room: I found it really helpful last year to make a list of things I knew I was looking for. Then I went around the internet and found out how much these items cost (plus shipping). That way I could browse the dealer's room and know when I was getting a deal and when I should wait. I haven't tried it, but it might help you bargan down some prices as well. As Guru said, unless you're getting a super deal, DVDs are usually cheaper online. The manga sellers actually had some good deals if you wanted to buy 4-5+ books; mostly a buy 4 get one free sort of thing. Of course, you have to bring some extra money for the dealer's room for those things you happen to find and can't live without right there and then.
Food: If you want to save on food, don't buy the food at the convention center. It's expensive and you don't get all that much food. It's better to walk a few blocks from the convention center. There are several mexican places with great cheap burritos.
Hotel: Make sure that you also factor in parking!
The food court in the convention center in the exhibit halls isn't exactly great and is aimed at business groups that come in during the week, Fanime does in fact have several food vendors who are offering a variety of Asian foods that you can't get within three or five blocks of the convention center, such as sushi, beef bowls, etc.
While it is safe to walk around downtown after dark, how many young ladies, wearing a Cosplay are willing to walk several blocks to get to a fast food place?
Craige...
Yes, I wasn't referring to the food vendors that are brought it, but the food court. I haven't actually eaten at the vendors, although they seemed pretty crowded during the cons. I'm not sure how late they were open though.
And I walked many places in my cosplay. ;D
Interesting topic. But all I know is that I need about:
$1500 for the con. $600 (just an estimate) of that will be for the hotel alone. Which includes taxes and parking for 4 days.
I'm setting aside $200 just for gas since I'm driving up from L.A. and I'm not really sure how gas prices are going to be during that time. Besides, my truck only gets about 22 miles per gallon. :( Plus I might take the scenic route there. PCH.
$200 for food alone since I eat like a horse.
And the rest will be to spend on whatever.
This is extremely useful, particularly for a newbie. =D
Thank you very much for posting this!
Heres an idea that I did last year, bring all your food with you. Now if your staying for the full 4 days its a different matter but if your only staying over night or something this works very well. Just pack bread, whatever you put on it (for me it was pnjs for simplicity), drinks and put those in a cooler or something, then pack a paper bag or something with chips. I wasn't even that hungry despite being out almost the entire time.
Plane tickets = $750.
*dies*
Quote from: Mr Anime on December 19, 2007, 09:29:44 PM
Interesting topic. But all I know is that I need about:
$1500 for the con. $600 (just an estimate) of that will be for the hotel alone. Which includes taxes and parking for 4 days.
I'm setting aside $200 just for gas since I'm driving up from L.A. and I'm not really sure how gas prices are going to be during that time. Besides, my truck only gets about 22 miles per gallon. :( Plus I might take the scenic route there. PCH.
$200 for food alone since I eat like a horse.
And the rest will be to spend on whatever.
I need to chat with my fanime group to make sure hey got everything settled. But out of curiosity, what is parking for hotel guests of the Hilton?
Quote from: Squeeky_Moonkin on January 04, 2008, 10:23:27 PM
I need to chat with my fanime group to make sure hey got everything settled. But out of curiosity, what is parking for hotel guests of the Hilton?
They should be following the rate posted by the SJCCF parking garage, which last year was $10.00 per day.
Craige...
Quote from: Moonblossom on January 04, 2008, 08:38:46 PM
Plane tickets = $750.
*dies*
Me too! Nothing like adding a few hundred dollars to your budget just to get to SJ! :'(
Food will not cost you that much! La Victoria's taqueria sells breakfast burritos for $1.50 (or $1.75? i dunno, under two dollars) that are very filling and nutritious (eggs and protein!). Also, I would not buy the food from the convention vendors--it's all incredibly marked up. There are many restaurants downtown where you can buy really tasty and healthy food for cheap. Try Pita Pit, La Vic's, Iguana's, or even one of the pizza places! There is even a sushi place in Plaza de San Antonio (like 2 streets away from the con).
As for the walking around at night comment...I personally would, but I would be cautious. Always go with a group of friends to be on the safe side! Many of the restaurants downtown are open late for the people leaving clubs and such.
Quote from: phoenixphire24 on January 07, 2008, 05:15:55 PM
Quote from: Moonblossom on January 04, 2008, 08:38:46 PM
Plane tickets = $750.
*dies*
Me too! Nothing like adding a few hundred dollars to your budget just to get to SJ! :'(
That's why my friend and I went through Travelocity.
We got the round trip plane tickets and a room at the Hilton for a bit over 1k for the both of us (I believe it came out to about $630 a piece). I went with Travelocity back when Hyde came to SF and got a good deal then also, which is why I went with it again. Although I have to say, luck was with my friend and I when we realized that the Hilton was one of the hotels that can be booked through that site. x3
Quote from: jeans on January 09, 2008, 09:21:01 PM
Food will not cost you that much! La Victoria's taqueria sells breakfast burritos for $1.50 (or $1.75? i dunno, under two dollars) that are very filling and nutritious (eggs and protein!).
BEST FOOD EVER. My friends and I have breakfast/lunch there everyday during Fanime.
Quote from: phoenixphire24 on January 17, 2008, 08:16:20 AM
Quote from: jeans on January 09, 2008, 09:21:01 PM
Food will not cost you that much! La Victoria's taqueria sells breakfast burritos for $1.50 (or $1.75? i dunno, under two dollars) that are very filling and nutritious (eggs and protein!).
BEST FOOD EVER. My friends and I have breakfast/lunch there everyday during Fanime.
That settles it for me. Will definitely go to La Victoria for breakfast during Fanime.
Quote from: AbsolutelyCursed on January 17, 2008, 11:47:42 PM
Quote from: phoenixphire24 on January 17, 2008, 08:16:20 AM
Quote from: jeans on January 09, 2008, 09:21:01 PM
Food will not cost you that much! La Victoria's taqueria sells breakfast burritos for $1.50 (or $1.75? i dunno, under two dollars) that are very filling and nutritious (eggs and protein!).
BEST FOOD EVER. My friends and I have breakfast/lunch there everyday during Fanime.
That settles it for me. Will definitely go to La Victoria for breakfast during Fanime.
Yes La Victoria is awesome.
What I did last year was I bought a lot of bottled water - I got 4 cases of 24 bottles from Smart and Final for about $20. Since the group I was in had two rooms, I decided to get 2 cases for each room.
It was a good idea since you save a lot of money on drinks (plus water and, to a certain extent, sports drinks like Gatorade are better for you over the weekend than sodas and energy drinks), but since we stayed at the Crowne Plaza, the accessibility for that water was not immediate, as we had to walk across the street to get to the hotel.
I'm going to do it again this year, and since I'm staying at the Marriot I can always retreat into my room, cool off with water, then go back without having to travel far. This way, the accessibility is much higher.
When I figured out my budget, I used a guide that is provided by the community college district (thank god for my ASG connections :)) to determine food budgets for traveling for conferences and other related events that require some sort of stipend. When I go back next week, I'll get one and provide it so that you can figure out it on a form.
For more really tasty and relatively inexpensive food, there's the Asquew Grill.
http://www.asqewgrill.com/
A friend and I stumbled across this place while roaming around looking for dinner one night after everything else was closed, and omg, it's fabulous. The meat is really juicy and tender, and every single one of their sides that we ended up trying were awesome. We went back the next night with a larger group actually, and didn't mind at all.
It's not quite as cheap as La Victoria, but it's so delicious.
And, um, interesting tidbit that I possibly should not be promoting, they never carded me ><. I was 25 at the time so it wasn't an issue one way or the other, but it's handy to know. Should you have, um, forgotten your ID at the hotel, of course.
Quote from: Moonblossom on January 18, 2008, 09:05:17 PM
For more really tasty and relatively inexpensive food, there's the Asquew Grill.
http://www.asqewgrill.com/
A friend and I stumbled across this place while roaming around looking for dinner one night after everything else was closed, and omg, it's fabulous. The meat is really juicy and tender, and every single one of their sides that we ended up trying were awesome. We went back the next night with a larger group actually, and didn't mind at all.
It's not quite as cheap as La Victoria, but it's so delicious.
And, um, interesting tidbit that I possibly should not be promoting, they never carded me ><. I was 25 at the time so it wasn't an issue one way or the other, but it's handy to know. Should you have, um, forgotten your ID at the hotel, of course.
I walked by that place last year, and it looked tasty. Might have to try it this year. The Chinese place that was in that spot was really good, I was sad that it had been taken over, but if the new place is good, it'll be ok.
I got the figures!
- Breakfast: $9
- Lunch: $12
- Dinner: $21
That comes out to $42 a day, that's not including other items like snacks or drinks on the side.
Again, this is from a form that calculates stipend costs for travel provided by the community college district that I attend.
In reality, no one has $42 for food unless you have a ton of disposable income.
I can see something like this:
- Breakfast: $6.75
- Lunch: $9
- Dinner: $15.75
That knocks it down to $31.50.
I say that these amounts are recommended so that you get the food that you need to keep yourself at optimum level while at FanimeCon :)
Quote from: HeeroYuy135 on January 18, 2008, 12:14:13 AM
What I did last year was I bought a lot of bottled water - I got 4 cases of 24 bottles from Smart and Final for about $20. Since the group I was in had two rooms, I decided to get 2 cases for each room.
Please be sure to recycle those bottles. Using all those bottle instead of refilling one bottle is very wasteful. :-\
Quote from: phoenixphire24 on January 25, 2008, 04:33:46 PM
Quote from: HeeroYuy135 on January 18, 2008, 12:14:13 AM
What I did last year was I bought a lot of bottled water - I got 4 cases of 24 bottles from Smart and Final for about $20. Since the group I was in had two rooms, I decided to get 2 cases for each room.
Please be sure to recycle those bottles. Using all those bottle instead of refilling one bottle is very wasteful. :-\
Also, you get money from recycling. A little more money you could use at the con.
Quote from: phoenixphire24 on January 25, 2008, 04:33:46 PM
Quote from: HeeroYuy135 on January 18, 2008, 12:14:13 AM
What I did last year was I bought a lot of bottled water - I got 4 cases of 24 bottles from Smart and Final for about $20. Since the group I was in had two rooms, I decided to get 2 cases for each room.
Please be sure to recycle those bottles. Using all those bottle instead of refilling one bottle is very wasteful. :-\
Definately :)
La Victorias is cheap as well as tasty (be sure to try the special sauce) and its a small walk from the Con, right next to it is Jack in the Box and right across the street is Pizza My Heart and Baskin Robbins. All affordable and within walking distance, just remember to bring a jacket, that nightly trek to satisfy your craving for a Jumbo Jack may seem longer than you thought when its freezing outside.
Quote from: rude32 on January 25, 2008, 08:30:28 PM
Quote from: phoenixphire24 on January 25, 2008, 04:33:46 PM
Quote from: HeeroYuy135 on January 18, 2008, 12:14:13 AM
What I did last year was I bought a lot of bottled water - I got 4 cases of 24 bottles from Smart and Final for about $20. Since the group I was in had two rooms, I decided to get 2 cases for each room.
Please be sure to recycle those bottles. Using all those bottle instead of refilling one bottle is very wasteful. :-\
Also, you get money from recycling. A little more money you could use at the con.
Yeah, I'll do that too. So does anyone know if there any recycling centers near the convention?
=D I'll be driving to Mitsuwa to stock up on some yummy food and snacks that they sell.
One good idea is to use Excel or some compatable spreadsheet software to organize all the costs associated with Fanime (i.e. hotels, food, spending cash for dealers room).
I started one yesterday, and it's a good way to see what's going to what and how much
Alright, I've only been to one convention but in general I'd make sure not to eat anything that's going to make you feel like crap and not want to walk or feel sick. I'm not talking about eating Junk Food all weekend but just anything that you think will make you, I wouldn't take the chance. Because if you get to feeling sick on Friday or Saturday it won't be much fun, will it? ;)
Alright, thanks for the info too! ^^
Quote from: KiratheDemon on March 10, 2008, 05:18:59 PM
Alright, I've only been to one convention but in general I'd make sure not to eat anything that's going to make you feel like crap and not want to walk or feel sick. I'm not talking about eating Junk Food all weekend but just anything that you think will make you, I wouldn't take the chance. Because if you get to feeling sick on Friday or Saturday it won't be much fun, will it? ;)
Alright, thanks for the info too! ^^
I second this opinion. My first fanime, when it was at the sccc, my friend and I had eaten some chicken strips from denny's, the next day we had food poisoning. My friends and I pretty much sat in the lobby the entire morning and afternoon trying to feel better. Thanks to miso soup and 7-up though, I felt much better.
Quote from: rude32 on March 10, 2008, 08:17:00 PM
Quote from: KiratheDemon on March 10, 2008, 05:18:59 PM
Alright, I've only been to one convention but in general I'd make sure not to eat anything that's going to make you feel like crap and not want to walk or feel sick. I'm not talking about eating Junk Food all weekend but just anything that you think will make you, I wouldn't take the chance. Because if you get to feeling sick on Friday or Saturday it won't be much fun, will it? ;)
Alright, thanks for the info too! ^^
I second this opinion. My first fanime, when it was at the sccc, my friend and I had eaten some chicken strips from denny's, the next day we had food poisoning. My friends and I pretty much sat in the lobby the entire morning and afternoon trying to feel better. Thanks to miso soup and 7-up though, I felt much better.
Yeah, this is why I try and stay away from fast food during Fanime. Even if you don't get food poisoning, I've found that all that grease and such tends to make me feel sluggish and tried. Not good when there's anime to be watched!
Alright I updated the first post by consolidating the info spread across the thread.
Keep tips coming in you guys. ^_^
I've been doing this for more than ten years now, and I've been to cons as far away as AX. You guys seem to have the money covered, but I've got one tip for you, and that is to always have some extra money (if you can spare it, not everyone can.)
We call this the "Holy Shit! Fund" and the farther away from con you are, the larger this needs to be. If you're local, you could probably get away with around twenty dollars or so. If you're a couple hours away, you'll want at least 50 to 100. If youre from down south or out of state, $100 to $200 is nice. Sometimes, things dont go according to plan. Sometimes, unexpected things happen. And then you go "Holy shit! I need cash!" This is where the Holy Shit! Fund comes into play. Perhaps gremlins poke holes in your tire and you need to buy a new one. Maybe you lose track of time and miss your train, and you need to buy a new ticket. Maybe the omg BEST. BAND. EVAR. is playing one night only and you NEED to go see them. Maybe your friend gets arrested and you need to post bail. Maybe the roads get closed or the train breaks down and you need cash for another night at the hotel.
Maybe you meet the girl or guy of your dreams and decide to elope.
All of these reasons and more is why we have the Holy Shit! Fund. Have any of them ever happened to me? Nope. Do I still set money aside whenever I have enough to spare? Hell yes. You also have to remember that the unexpected can happen both on the way to the con, at the con itself, and on the way home. I suggest setting aside an amount that you deem appropriate, and keeping that money entirely seperate from your normal money (keep it in a different wallet in a different spot on your person, or even leave it in the hotel room (in a place where the cleaning lady wont think it's for her.)) Dont spend it until monday, and if you can keep at least half of it just in case of emergencies on the way home (sometimes I spend my food money and use the remainder of The Fund for food on the way back XD)
Will you need it? Probably not. But if you don't prepare and you end up wishing you had it, I hope you think of meee~ ^_^
Quote from: phoenixphire24 on March 11, 2008, 07:33:49 AM
Quote from: rude32 on March 10, 2008, 08:17:00 PM
Quote from: KiratheDemon on March 10, 2008, 05:18:59 PM
Alright, I've only been to one convention but in general I'd make sure not to eat anything that's going to make you feel like crap and not want to walk or feel sick. I'm not talking about eating Junk Food all weekend but just anything that you think will make you, I wouldn't take the chance. Because if you get to feeling sick on Friday or Saturday it won't be much fun, will it? ;)
Alright, thanks for the info too! ^^
I second this opinion. My first fanime, when it was at the sccc, my friend and I had eaten some chicken strips from denny's, the next day we had food poisoning. My friends and I pretty much sat in the lobby the entire morning and afternoon trying to feel better. Thanks to miso soup and 7-up though, I felt much better.
Yeah, this is why I try and stay away from fast food during Fanime. Even if you don't get food poisoning, I've found that all that grease and such tends to make me feel sluggish and tried. Not good when there's anime to be watched!
Agreed. Bringing some fruit to eat once in a while is a good idea(juicy grapes being my favorite ^^). I try to eat a fast food meal at least only twice during the entire time at the con. And eat plenty of wheat in the morning. Plenty of those carbs will fuel you well when you run around the con like a maniac.
My budget as of now is $750, that includes the hotel, reg, food, spending cash, and other various items (photoshoot fees and so fourth).
Looking good...:)
My parents are going to be paying for part of my trip.
Basically, what I'm being told is:
If you can't string together $500 AT MINIMUM for Fanime, don't come...
That sounds about accurate. It is a luxury, not a right, after all. Hell, my budget's nearly two grand, but I plan to spend a lot in the dealer room and my plane ticket was about six hundred alone.
And note that that $500 probably assumes you're splitting a room 2 or 3 ways...
I mean, with the "no sleeping at the con" bullshit, you're probably damn near required to get 4 nights of hotel (and that's Th-Sun -- a post-con Monday would make five!). A person going alone and wishing to remain alone probably sucks that $500 up right there, and that probably takes them a significant distance from the con, so they already lose a significant portion of the con if they don't want to end up on the Psycho Express or the Homeless Express. (Personally, if they're going to make a production of demanding people get hotel rooms, then they really should force all attendees to disclose where they are staying for the con. No disclosure = see ya.)
I mean, you're talking $60 for the con, anywhere between $20-$100 for transportation (and, if you're flying, forget it, that's at least $100 just for LA, and anything further, it goes exponential), probably $30-50 for food/day (and that's if you're not going to a big restaurant like some of them in the hotels), and then we still have to talk about Dealers' Room, Artists' Alley, etc.
Maybe, with all the signs that the cons are having to ban, perhaps a means test to actually be allowed in the door might not be such a bad idea.
If you live anywhere nearby, you don't need $500 bucks. If you don't have money for a room, then drive or take public transit to get down here, and know when the last trains leave to head back home. In 2005 I drove from Hayward to San Jose all four days to enjoy the con. It was just me going, and I wasn't about to pay 300 bucks for a room to stay there by myself. If you live too far away to drive there well, you're just going to have to get a room or make a friend to share with. That's why there's a roommates thread. You don't need 500 bucks to enjoy the con unless you're going to be spending some major cash in the dealer's room. If you're creative you CAN do it for less.
And if you don't have the money...well there's not much you can do. No one is going to pay for you out of the kindness of their hearts. There are no free rides or lunches. Everything revolves around money. It's a fact of life. Honestly, anyone who thinks they can sleep in random places around the Con (or god forbid, outside) and NOT get their asses robbed or taken advantage of is incredibly foolish.
Unless I'm flying to a con I usually only spend $300-400. Like for Sakura-con this year I only spent about $350 and the majority of that was my hotel room ($180) and transportation ($100). I don't really ever buy anything in the dealers room or artists alley so that is a huge chunk of money a lot of people spend that I don't.
Expecting to spend around $400 on Fanime..with plane tickets included.
I booked my room back in December when it first came on and I live 2+ hours away from San Jose. When you split the total cost of rooms with the number of roommates, it'll becomes cheaper. However, I don't like rooming with more than five people since my last experience in 2007.
I am not getting what you mean [Psycho Express or the Homeless Express. (Personally, if they're going to make a production of demanding people get hotel rooms, then they really should force all attendees to disclose where they are staying for the con. No disclosure = see ya.)] Fanime is not forcing anyone to get a hotel. It's the attendee's decision to get a hotel especially for those who do not live close to San Jose.
Hmm... I'm expecting to spend close to $800 including hotel and badge. =) At least, I'm going to sell some at swap meet to make some money back.
Quote from: darkstar on April 19, 2008, 06:25:37 PM
And note that that $500 probably assumes you're splitting a room 2 or 3 ways...
I mean, with the "no sleeping at the con" bullshit, you're probably damn near required to get 4 nights of hotel (and that's Th-Sun -- a post-con Monday would make five!). A person going alone and wishing to remain alone probably sucks that $500 up right there, and that probably takes them a significant distance from the con, so they already lose a significant portion of the con if they don't want to end up on the Psycho Express or the Homeless Express. (Personally, if they're going to make a production of demanding people get hotel rooms, then they really should force all attendees to disclose where they are staying for the con. No disclosure = see ya.)
I mean, you're talking $60 for the con, anywhere between $20-$100 for transportation (and, if you're flying, forget it, that's at least $100 just for LA, and anything further, it goes exponential), probably $30-50 for food/day (and that's if you're not going to a big restaurant like some of them in the hotels), and then we still have to talk about Dealers' Room, Artists' Alley, etc.
Maybe, with all the signs that the cons are having to ban, perhaps a means test to actually be allowed in the door might not be such a bad idea.
Seriously, that's enough. Stop whining about cost of the convention. It doesn't cost 500 dollars minimum. If you live in the area it costs more like...the cost of the convention +food. If you don't live in the area or set up local lodging then that's your problem and nobody cares or wants to hear your sob story. Even people who live out of area can make it cost less than $500.
Tony offered you some advice, I suggest you take it- don't come to the convention. Judging by your attitude on the whole thing, you seem to be a very bitter Fanime attendee who wants everything given to them for free.
For the last time, a convention is a luxury. If you have the money that you earned with your part time job or got from your rich parents (not anyone's fault if your parents are or are not rich), then you can attend. If you don't have the money, don't come.
Quote from: FanFicGuru on April 20, 2008, 12:00:15 PM
Quote from: darkstar on April 19, 2008, 06:25:37 PM
And note that that $500 probably assumes you're splitting a room 2 or 3 ways...
I mean, with the "no sleeping at the con" bullshit, you're probably damn near required to get 4 nights of hotel (and that's Th-Sun -- a post-con Monday would make five!). A person going alone and wishing to remain alone probably sucks that $500 up right there, and that probably takes them a significant distance from the con, so they already lose a significant portion of the con if they don't want to end up on the Psycho Express or the Homeless Express. (Personally, if they're going to make a production of demanding people get hotel rooms, then they really should force all attendees to disclose where they are staying for the con. No disclosure = see ya.)
I mean, you're talking $60 for the con, anywhere between $20-$100 for transportation (and, if you're flying, forget it, that's at least $100 just for LA, and anything further, it goes exponential), probably $30-50 for food/day (and that's if you're not going to a big restaurant like some of them in the hotels), and then we still have to talk about Dealers' Room, Artists' Alley, etc.
Maybe, with all the signs that the cons are having to ban, perhaps a means test to actually be allowed in the door might not be such a bad idea.
Seriously, that's enough. Stop whining about cost of the convention. It doesn't cost 500 dollars minimum. If you live in the area it costs more like...the cost of the convention +food. If you don't live in the area or set up local lodging then that's your problem and nobody cares or wants to hear your sob story. Even people who live out of area can make it cost less than $500.
Tony offered you some advice, I suggest you take it- don't come to the convention. Judging by your attitude on the whole thing, you seem to be a very bitter Fanime attendee who wants everything given to them for free.
For the last time, a convention is a luxury. If you have the money that you earned with your part time job or got from your rich parents (not anyone's fault if your parents are or are not rich), then you can attend. If you don't have the money, don't come.
shit, i have made it cost $400 for the last two years, because i was responsible and
I MADE A BUDGET.
darkstar:
shut up. the numbers you punched in for money expenditures are ridiculous: its $55 for the con, not $60(thats if you reg at-con, cheaper if you pre-reg);
IF YOU HAVE A ROOM, its more like $10-12 for food/day(i can go lower than that number, and still eat three times a day, plus snacks); the lowest you can possibly pay for a room while sharing with others is $70...thats around $150 right there, and thats before adding things like arcade, dealers, etc. which puts you below your projections.
either save up money for a whole year so you dont have a problem for 2009(thats if you dont get yourself banned first, which im sure you will), or STFU.
Quote from: Gwydion on April 19, 2008, 08:38:14 PM
If you live anywhere nearby, you don't need $500 bucks. If you don't have money for a room, then drive or take public transit to get down here, and know when the last trains leave to head back home. In 2005 I drove from Hayward to San Jose all four days to enjoy the con. It was just me going, and I wasn't about to pay 300 bucks for a room to stay there by myself. If you live too far away to drive there well, you're just going to have to get a room or make a friend to share with. That's why there's a roommates thread. You don't need 500 bucks to enjoy the con unless you're going to be spending some major cash in the dealer's room. If you're creative you CAN do it for less.
And if you don't have the money...well there's not much you can do. No one is going to pay for you out of the kindness of their hearts. There are no free rides or lunches. Everything revolves around money. It's a fact of life. Honestly, anyone who thinks they can sleep in random places around the Con (or god forbid, outside) and NOT get their asses robbed or taken advantage of is incredibly foolish.
1) If you take public transit, that pretty much ends your con, if you don't live right on the light rail, probably 8 or 9 PM, in most cases. That would probably make similar worth of being escorted back to a hotel room that you didn't leave between 9 PM and 8 AM...
I mean, after the Fanime debacle, I tried that with A-Kon, and was left, really, with "Why the Hell did I go to this con just to end up in the hotel room?"
And even if you do live on the light rail, you can figure out that you're not going to be going to see that Hentai marathon you've always wanted...
2) *does some rough figuring* You'd probably STILL be out at least $150-200 by transportation, food, and the entry fee anyway. We still haven't touched the dealers' hall yet...
3) I'd really like to know where you can get a real hotel room that'll allow you not to have to miss 12 hours out of every 24 at minimum and NOT pay at least $75/night. Especially as late as some of us had to actually decide...
Quote from: KyraEnsui on April 20, 2008, 09:29:27 AM
I am not getting what you mean [Psycho Express or the Homeless Express. (Personally, if they're going to make a production of demanding people get hotel rooms, then they really should force all attendees to disclose where they are staying for the con. No disclosure = see ya.)] Fanime is not forcing anyone to get a hotel. It's the attendee's decision to get a hotel especially for those who do not live close to San Jose.
No, they're making it a force issue -- I just wish that they'd take that force issue to it's logical extent. All the big cons are getting too big to handle anyway, and any way that they can use to dissuade people like me from attending them probably will do them good in the long run.
Between that and the inappropriate glomping fiascos...
Quote from: darkstar on April 20, 2008, 11:58:54 PM
Quote from: KyraEnsui on April 20, 2008, 09:29:27 AM
I am not getting what you mean [Psycho Express or the Homeless Express. (Personally, if they're going to make a production of demanding people get hotel rooms, then they really should force all attendees to disclose where they are staying for the con. No disclosure = see ya.)] Fanime is not forcing anyone to get a hotel. It's the attendee's decision to get a hotel especially for those who do not live close to San Jose.
No, they're making it a force issue -- I just wish that they'd take that force issue to it's logical extent. All the big cons are getting too big to handle anyway, and any way that they can use to dissuade people like me from attending them probably will do them good in the long run.
Between that and the inappropriate glomping fiascos...
no, you are making it sound like its a force issue.
Quote from: darkstar on April 20, 2008, 11:57:16 PM
*does some rough figuring* You'd probably STILL be out at least $150-200 by transportation, food, and the entry fee anyway. We still haven't touched the dealers' hall yet...
I'd really like to know where you can get a real hotel room that'll allow you not to have to miss 12 hours out of every 24 at minimum and NOT pay at least $75/night. Especially as late as some of us had to actually decide...
i didnt see any reason to quote that whole post, save for these two points.
badge: $55
food(if you know how to stretch your money out): $10-15 food/day
transportation: depends on how far away you are traveling from(where are you coming from anyways?!)
just how much money do you have set aside for con, if you do not mind me asking? also, how old are you(this has a small point to it)?
you really don't know how to set up a schedule/budget for something as big as fanime, do you? you keep saying that you don't want to miss anything, yet you post "I'd really like to know where you can get a real hotel room that'll allow you not to have to miss 12 hours out of every 24 at minimum".
choosing to sleep that many hours each days is your fault, no one else's. the least amount of hours that your body typically needs for sleep is about 8, and you shoot off 12.....you're an idiot. for con, you still need to sleep, and if you dont want to miss so much, 4-6 hours of sleep/night lets you not miss much(that small point between 6am and 11am has little to nothing going on, save for the marathon rooms and a few vid rooms with some classic stuff)
but back to the whole room thing....
if you are traveling from a very far distance, then getting a hotel room should be as much of a necessity as getting a badge. if you live really close to the con center(which a good amount of the people here do), you can go back to your abode, but they choose to get a room, and why: convenience.
to put it in very simple words: you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.
What you are trying to accomplish here, darkstar, really? If you can't figure out how to budget for a con and ways to save money (like splitting a room, bringing food with you, not spending as much money in the dealers hall..if any, preregging early) then well that is your own fault. Don't like to take public transit if you live nearby? Don't go to the con then. I did that for my first con..1.5 hours one way...and I still enjoyed myself immensely. So you can't go to the late events..big deal. If they are that big a deal to you then save money and get a hotel room.
And while the con isn't forcing people to get hotel rooms, it does help the con when people do because it gives them more leverage with the convention center regarding dates and all (don't get enough filled rooms one year you don't get your same date next year type of thing), plus it allows the con to secure the huge discounts on the rooms. Telling people they can't come o the con if they don't get a hotel room would quite literally kill any convention so that is just a stupid suggestion or whatever it is.
Quote from: Trumby on April 21, 2008, 02:01:33 AM
What you are trying to accomplish here, darkstar, really? If you can't figure out how to budget for a con and ways to save money (like splitting a room, bringing food with you, not spending as much money in the dealers hall..if any, preregging early) then well that is your own fault. Don't like to take public transit if you live nearby? Don't go to the con then. I did that for my first con..1.5 hours one way...and I still enjoyed myself immensely. So you can't go to the late events..big deal. If they are that big a deal to you then save money and get a hotel room.
Exactly, I mean we're driving there from two hours away, and I wouldn't have been able to stay there overnight... But since I saved up enough money, I could afford a hotel room there. I don't know what you are trying to accomplish, darkstar. Note, I'm not 18... And I don't have a job. So I don't get what you're whining and complaining about. Do some chores around the house, babysit, or take some odd job here and there.
For one person, split 4 ways on a room, it averages out to be 125 dollars per person. Badges cost about 60 bucks. Thats 185.
185 for Badge + Room.
Food = 20 dollars a day x 3-4 days = 60-80 dollars for the entire weekend.
Transportation - Gas for a full tank of gas is like 50 bucks. Plane tickets (Depending on where you are coming from) are anywhere from 50-500 bucks.
So lets say 500 bucks + 80 bucks + 185 bucks = total of 765 bucks.
You have 360 some odd days to save before the con.
So if you saved about 3 dollars a day, into a little savings account you would have 1080 dollars at the end of the 360 days. Enough to spend for a 500 dollar plane ticket, food, hotel, and badge.
It's not hard to plan a budget. Just takes a little effort. Less effort than bitching about con prices and no sleeping rules. HELLO, IF YOU DON'T like the LAW, GO CONTACT the MAYOR. It's out of our hands. Bitching like a little kid doesn't help anything but contribute nothing.
Dealers room, arcades, etc. all that other crap are extra luxuries added on to the con (as it is a luxury). Can't afford it? Don't do it.
Everyone who is whining about money needs to stop, right now, please. It's annoying and unnecessary.
Is Con expensive? You bet. Do you need money to attend? Of course. Are the Con planners forcing you to get a room? No. Short of a gun to your head, no one can make you do anything. Is getting a room a good idea? Yes, but is not absolutely necessary. And if you are selfish enough to not want to share your room with others to cut the cost, then you're pricing yourself out of the experience.
I'm hearing a lot of entitlement and as Neko can atest, I am not a big fan of entitlement. There is not one person on earth who deserves that which they do not earn. If you do not have enough money to attend, do not attend. However, when I first began to go to Fanime, my budget was pretty modest. I lived in San Jose at the time, so my friends and I made the best of it. We shared a room every year, and still do, even though we come from various parts of the state now ($130/Con each). There have been as many as six of us sharing a 2 bed room. It's a little incovenient, but we only sleep and shower there so who cares? We bring our own food and eat at restaurants as a treat($40 for groceries). And we spend what money we have wisely.
Bring what you can. Dole your money out, prudently. And try to con your friends into letting you stay in their room for free, cuz you're broke. It works, I swear.
Amen to that!
To me, Fanime (well, the con and mostly seeing my friends) is a reward for working my flat little white-girl ass off the rest of the year. Admittedly I have the awesomest job ever (work in a toy store that specializes in Transformers and Star Wars stuff) but that still doesn't change the fact that I have to work. I've earned this trip. And the whole "well I WANT it so I should be able to have it for free whine whine whine" mentality pisses me off to no end. Thankfully, most of the people in this thread don't seem to think that way, only a very select little pocket.
No, if I don't like the law, they can arrest me. OK? Let's put it that simply.
I mean, until I had to move to help out a friend, I was putting the odds of getting arrested at this year's con to better than 50-50.
If it's against the law to sleep in the screening rooms, then they needed to arrest me last year, hardcore, because that was the only way I was going to attend that, or any future, Fanime. Period.
You don't like it? Do something about it. With legal force.
As an additional point: If you're going to have that attitude, institute a means test. Force people to demonstrate they have the money to attend the con, or they don't attend the con. That damned simple.
Quote from: darkstar on April 23, 2008, 04:59:44 PM
As an additional point: If you're going to have that attitude, institute a means test. Force people to demonstrate they have the money to attend the con, or they don't attend the con. That damned simple.
How about "no"? Honestly, how is it to understand what most of board member's are saying? You're saying to force people to demonstrate? Give it a break.
Anyways, away from the drama joker. It's all about saving up and having fun. =D Saving up is a really good investment for fun~!
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying -- since it seems that "anime cons are a luxury" and all, and people who aren't rich enough to line hotel rooms they probably wouldn't use unless forced with the money which justifies the cons' presence in the name of th elocal Convention and Visitors' Bureau...
I mean, I've had it put to me that sleeping at the con threatens the future of the con -- well, at that point, I am a threat to future cons.
(Of course, if you saw how mad I was by Monday afternoon, I wouldn't have been here.)
A "no" is not sufficient. Banishment or a restraining order might be a start.
Quote from: darkstar on April 23, 2008, 06:04:54 PM
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying -- since it seems that "anime cons are a luxury" and all, and people who aren't rich enough to line hotel rooms they probably wouldn't use unless forced with the money which justifies the cons' presence in the name of th elocal Convention and Visitors' Bureau...
I mean, I've had it put to me that sleeping at the con threatens the future of the con -- well, at that point, I am a threat to future cons.
(Of course, if you saw how mad I was by Monday afternoon, I wouldn't have been here.)
A "no" is not sufficient. Banishment or a restraining order might be a start.
you really are an idiot, man.
stop whining and being all pissy and just dont go. save yourself(and everyone else) the trouble and just not smeggin' show your face at fanime again.
you really want to be banned from the con so you dont become a 'threat'? okay.
*requests thread lock*
Darkstar, What the Hell is your problem? If Fanime is such a hassle for you, THEN DON'T GO! Shit man! You sound like all you want to do is to stir up trouble when you get there!
And if any Mod is reading this, answer me a question if you can. Isn't the "No sleeping" (read as "loitering") in the convention center a policy of the convention center?
Quote from: darkstar on April 23, 2008, 04:59:44 PM
No, if I don't like the law, they can arrest me. OK? Let's put it that simply.
I mean, until I had to move to help out a friend, I was putting the odds of getting arrested at this year's con to better than 50-50.
If it's against the law to sleep in the screening rooms, then they needed to arrest me last year, hardcore, because that was the only way I was going to attend that, or any future, Fanime. Period.
You don't like it? Do something about it. With legal force.
As an additional point: If you're going to have that attitude, institute a means test. Force people to demonstrate they have the money to attend the con, or they don't attend the con. That damned simple.
If this is such an issue for you than a) don't come b) only come for Saturday and Sunday and just stay up Saturday night-I'm sure people have done this before or c) learn to save your money. Having people sleep at the con would be a huge problem for the Fanime staff for various reason including safety. Fanime is the same dates every year; it's not like you can't plan ahead. Some people make sacrifices in order to come to Fanime, so stop whining. Otherwise you will get banned from Fanime and then it won't be a problem for you or anyone else in the future.
I'm debating whether to give:
- a sensible answer (hotel/convention center space is private property; they dictate what is and is not allowed in their space)
- an obvious answer (non-local or overnight vacations cost money, period.)
- a threat, like I'll permaban people who cause trouble for me.
- Tifa cosplay pictures.
I'm not sure though.
The best sound words of advice to darkstar; Shut the f&@k up!
You have some mental defect that keeps you from compotently planning a trip to the con, yet you(as in one person) expect the con to specifically cater to your(again a single person) needs. Really asshole, do you actually think a good chunk of fanime attendees are just like you?
Do us all a favor and walk in front of a light rail train.
I don't think Fanime hosting any sort of means test for their attendees, because it's quite obvious not everyone has such a stubbornly idiotic mentality as Darkstar does. It's absolutely rational to understand that if you want to attend a private event away from home, you need the proper/legal living arrangements to do so. That's what hotels are made for-- to travel while having a private living space so you don't break the law by loitering around the streets, or in this case, PRIVATE PROPERTY. It has been explained that sleeping on private property isn't legal, nor is it anything a dignified person would do, so from there... it should be common sense. Here's hoping he takes Tony's advice and not come to the con. What needed to be said has been said, somehow Darkstar's brain isn't able to comprehend logic, so let's just go with that.
Darkstar, just don't go. Then you have nothing to worry about.
On topic, though, one could easily go to the con for roughly $75-200 with some planning. $35-50 for registration, maybe $10-20 for basic fast food (I brought my own food, my first overnight con), roughly $100 for a room after some planning with either friends or people that also need roommates online, which is normally worked out pretty easily, especially if you aren't the host. The rest is spent on other things, which is optional-- things in the dealer's room, artist alley, better food, room service, etc. I normally bring an average of $500+ (with the exception of my first, which was less obviously) for each Fanime, but most of that goes to buying things on my own leisure. I normally get registration for $35, if I'm late I get it for $45. A room has never costed more than $100 for me, if I don't get it for free. I think I'll be paying about $60, this year. I've been doing this since I was about 14 years old. So, this year... if I don't buy anything unecessary and focus just on expenses like registration, a room, and food without anyone paying for me, it'd be around $135-150.
But hey, maybe it's because I'm an underaged girl.
Nah, I'm kidding. Though it would help, it's not necessary. It'd make things significantly cheaper if I had took advantage of it is having a boyfriend willing to spend costs for me (in which I normally offer to pay, regardless, for my own sake) or friends that agree to keep me around for free with excuses like "You're a little girl. You don't gots no job, we gots it covered lol!" always come up. The only thing I do allow other people pay for me is food, in which we normally go out to a restaurant or buy stuff to bring back and share. So I suppose there are advantages, but having my own standards, I try to pay for what I can on my own unless it's absolutely necessary to have someone help me out. I had been irresponsible in my earlier cons, but not enough as to it becoming a huge problem for me.
But back to Darkstar, I still managed. So, if a teenage girl could handle it, why can't you?
I see what you did there! You used some Common Sense, and Planning.
See, it's not that hard to plan out a budget, and find ways to save money.
Quote from: G.I.R on April 24, 2008, 12:53:02 PM
I see what you did there! You used some Common Sense, and Planning.
See, it's not that hard to plan out a budget, and find ways to save money.
But you forgot, darkstar is from bizarro land. Over there incompotence is encouraged when going to fanime. Video rooms are primarily meant for sleeping there.
Quote from: G.I.R on April 24, 2008, 12:53:02 PM
I see what you did there! You used some Common Sense, and Planning.
See, it's not that hard to plan out a budget, and find ways to save money.
To be honest, I don't actually plan anything for Fanime in terms of budget outside of cosplaying, but uh... normally it requires some planning. Rofl. Honestly, I just pay things as they go-- pay for registration? Okay, set. Need a room? Ask during a conversation, ask other people what they're planning, agree to pay, okay set. Food? Well, common sense to bring money for that, okay set. The rest is just bringing money, which varies in terms of planning depending on the circumstances. Otherwise, whatever "planning" this is, it didn't take much effort to do so. For those in a pinch, more effort is needed, but probably not by much.
Quote from: Jun-Watarase on April 24, 2008, 12:42:50 PM
But hey, maybe it's because I'm an underaged girl.
I'm not sure what the fuss about money is. Fanime is a vacation, to be able to go, you have to save up and plan ahead.
Heck, I'm taking my little 13 year old cousin to the con with me and he has money saved up to go. And I mean partially pay for the food, hotel, and registration...
If a little 13 year old can save up enough money through petty chores and allowances, I don't see why a full grown person such as Darkstar couldn't save up enough money.....
Either my little cousin is very smart, or Darkstar can't plan..... Though I think the latter.
Quote from: Rei-Rei on April 24, 2008, 06:46:35 PM
Quote from: Jun-Watarase on April 24, 2008, 12:42:50 PM
But hey, maybe it's because I'm an underaged girl.
I'm not sure what the fuss about money is. Fanime is a vacation, to be able to go, you have to save up and plan ahead.
Heck, I'm taking my little 13 year old cousin to the con with me and he has money saved up to go. And I mean partially pay for the food, hotel, and registration...
If a little 13 year old can save up enough money through petty chores and allowances, I don't see why a full grown person such as Darkstar couldn't save up enough money.....
Either my little cousin is very smart, or Darkstar can't plan..... Though I think the latter.
Haha, well... that was a joke. I was referring to my age and gender regarding its benefits. But yeah, it's more or less his inability to comprehend the purpose of getting a hotel room and how Fanime is a necessity, and that no one is forcing him to go. I'm able to plan and budget all this (but I can't really take all the credit for it, as Pyron is probably paying for me in a lot of aspects) and while being able to help out Kazuko room with us and help with her registration fee. She was in a pinch, and she managed by having other people help her. It's not difficult, a lot of people do it. They manage.
Quote from: G.I.R on April 24, 2008, 01:20:40 AM
Darkstar, What the Hell is your problem? If Fanime is such a hassle for you, THEN DON'T GO! Shit man! You sound like all you want to do is to stir up trouble when you get there!
And if any Mod is reading this, answer me a question if you can. Isn't the "No sleeping" (read as "loitering") in the convention center a policy of the convention center?
The rules are the hassle. When you have to worry more about abiding by the damn rules than enjoying the con, then what money you threw at it was a waste.
Basically, I'm making a point: If you want to enforce those rules, you had better go above and beyond to deal with people like me, because there is ZERO CHANCE of me going to the con and abiding by those rules.
Quote from: Glitch on April 24, 2008, 12:34:39 PM
The best sound words of advice to darkstar; Shut the f&@k up!
You have some mental defect that keeps you from compotently planning a trip to the con, yet you(as in one person) expect the con to specifically cater to your(again a single person) needs. Really asshole, do you actually think a good chunk of fanime attendees are just like you?
Do us all a favor and walk in front of a light rail train.
Then shut me the f&@k up.
I don't respect you. Unless you're gonna knock me out or something...
Let me put it this simply:
There is zero need for overnight screenings at an anime con unless you wish to accept people will crash out there.
Take it from someone who's been the only person in the room, or the only person awake, at numerous cons that did overnights (and some of them then did away with the practice).
Quote from: darkstar on April 24, 2008, 07:16:56 PM
Let me put it this simply:
There is zero need for overnight screenings at an anime con unless you wish to accept people will crash out there.
Take it from someone who's been the only person in the room, or the only person awake, at numerous cons that did overnights (and some of them then did away with the practice).
They're there for people to be entertained if they're still awake late at night. They're not slumbering rooms-- if you honestly believe that they're there for the reason of people crashing in there, why doesn't Fanime have a freakin' sign put up saying, "HAY GUYZ, SLUMBER PARTY HERE!!"? Again, Fanime's convention grounds are private property. The hotel's there for a reason. Use it.
Quote from: darkstar on April 24, 2008, 07:16:56 PM
Let me put it this simply:
There is zero need for overnight screenings at an anime con unless you wish to accept people will crash out there.
Take it from someone who's been the only person in the room, or the only person awake, at numerous cons that did overnights (and some of them then did away with the practice).
You're not the only one who can stay awake at cons and go to overnight screenings. Don't assume.
First Fanime: $200 was my life-savings. Went under on the third day.
Second Fanime: Had roughly $500, kept consistent track of what I bought and attended. Spent just under $350.
This Fanime? My money will be most likely further than that. I expect fun times, even if I'm spotting gas and/or bus for certain days.
All my stuff is paid for, and I still have around $500.00 in my hands.
Quote from: Jun-Watarase on April 24, 2008, 07:23:41 PM
Quote from: darkstar on April 24, 2008, 07:16:56 PM
Let me put it this simply:
There is zero need for overnight screenings at an anime con unless you wish to accept people will crash out there.
Take it from someone who's been the only person in the room, or the only person awake, at numerous cons that did overnights (and some of them then did away with the practice).
They're there for people to be entertained if they're still awake late at night. They're not slumbering rooms-- if you honestly believe that they're there for the reason of people crashing in there, why doesn't Fanime have a freakin' sign put up saying, "HAY GUYZ, SLUMBER PARTY HERE!!"? Again, Fanime's convention grounds are private property. The hotel's there for a reason. Use it.
If that's the case, then do this:
Anyone caught sleeping anywhere on the convention grounds gets thrown off the premises and cited. The only warning you get is in your book or posted prominently on the grounds.
The area they are caught in gets noted. If on an overnight, a second offender shuts down that area til 8 AM. That happens twice, that area is shut down for the duration of the con.
I mean, let's be blunt: If you want to go _there_, the only reason Fanime exists is to satisfy the San Jose Convention and Visitors' Bureau.
Quote from: KyraEnsui on April 24, 2008, 07:25:25 PM
Quote from: darkstar on April 24, 2008, 07:16:56 PM
Let me put it this simply:
There is zero need for overnight screenings at an anime con unless you wish to accept people will crash out there.
Take it from someone who's been the only person in the room, or the only person awake, at numerous cons that did overnights (and some of them then did away with the practice).
You're not the only one who can stay awake at cons and go to overnight screenings. Don't assume.
I'll assume what I've seen at different cons -- both local and more outlying.
I mean, I've been at other cons where the number of people sleeping at the screening room and out in the hall far outweighed the number of awake people -- and it wasn't even close.
There is NO REASON NOR PURPOSE that the screening rooms should have to be open 24 hours if the expectation is for you to buy hotel rooms. Not only could those hotel rooms be used for personal viewing of whatever they chose to buy (of course, for many anime fans, actually BUYING the anime would be one Hell of a concept), but you could also (like some other cons do) utilize the hotel's network for such (non-adult) means as well.
Quote from: Glitch on April 24, 2008, 12:59:07 PM
Quote from: G.I.R on April 24, 2008, 12:53:02 PM
I see what you did there! You used some Common Sense, and Planning.
See, it's not that hard to plan out a budget, and find ways to save money.
But you forgot, darkstar is from bizarro land. Over there incompotence is encouraged when going to fanime. Video rooms are primarily meant for sleeping there.
I can't plan six months ahead. For all I know and expect, six months from now, I'll be in prison. I usually can't give more than maybe about three weeks.
(In fact, there's more than one time that deciding to go to cons came down to that.)
Quote from: darkstar on April 24, 2008, 07:16:56 PM
I mean, let's be blunt: If you want to go _there_, the only reason Fanime exists is to satisfy the San Jose Convention and Visitors' Bureau.
Fanime does not satisfy them. It satisfy the fans who brings together anyone with the common interests.
Hell, I don't even know why you're arguing this, nor what you're trying to prove anymore... but all people are ABLE to do things illegally, doesn't mean they should, nor should they promote it.
Quote from: DarkstarI mean, let's be blunt: If you want to go _there_, the only reason Fanime exists is to satisfy the San Jose Convention and Visitors' Bureau.
Ugh. Even THAT is too arrogant for me.
Fanime exists to provide a fun, by-fans-for-fans convention for whomever is willing and financially able to come. It just happens to take place in the San Jose Convention center, which has
common sense certain rules that any establishment should have. If you can't afford a hotel room, or can't stay with a friend, then don't impose yourself on the very people that have already provided more than enough for you. If it's not good enough for you, then it's not worth your time to come, or ours to convince you to change your clearly made-up mind. You clearly think it just exists to satisfy rules instead of make anything fun for YOU SPECIFICALLY, so why bother attending? You clearly think that you should be able to sleep wherever the heck you want without repercussion (to host such a crazy belief as sleeping in the halls at Fanime), and Fanime doesn't reward that, so why go somewhere where you'd be persecuted for your
madness 'beliefs', for lack of a better term?
Sleeping in the con halls isn't just rude, it's not just against the policy of SJCC. It's a slap in the face to those who worked hard to set up the con. It's saying, "I don't want to pay for a room, so I'm going to threaten this con's VERY EXISTANCE by imposing myself on it in a way that violates policy. So SCREW YOU, PUPPETS!"
Quite frankly I don't care if I got that right or wrong. IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO COME TO FANIME AND SLEEP SOMEWHERE, EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DRIVE HOME AND BACK,
DON'T COME TO FANIME.I've been quiet on the matter too long. "Boo hoo, I can't afford a room, Fanime is being MEAN to me! It's THEIR fault I can't afford a room! They're such PUPPETS! Sleeping in the halls should be okay! Violating common sense and legal policies should be okay!" How ungrateful and bratty. Please don't impose yourself on Fanime, or any convention that has COMMON SENSE, for that matter.
Quote from: darkstar on April 24, 2008, 11:25:08 PM
I can't plan six months ahead. For all I know and expect, six months from now, I'll be in prison. I usually can't give more than maybe about three weeks.
(In fact, there's more than one time that deciding to go to cons came down to that.)
this alone says enough about you than all of your previous posts so far.
what was i typing again...oh, i remember now.
you were bitching about this very same thing last year, back in june. that reminded me of a very short convo i had with deonchan on which law you were breaking. its this one:
QuoteCalifornia Penal Code PEN Section 647(e)
Every person who commits any of the following acts is guilty
of disorderly conduct, a misdemeanor:
.....
(e) Who lodges in any building, structure, vehicle, or place,
whether public or private, without the permission of the owner or
person entitled to the possession or in control of it.
but the main reason im typing:
dont show up to fanime. save everyone the trouble and just dont show the smeg up, you gimpy little goit.
Quote from: darkstar on April 24, 2008, 11:25:08 PM
Quote from: Glitch on April 24, 2008, 12:59:07 PM
Quote from: G.I.R on April 24, 2008, 12:53:02 PM
I see what you did there! You used some Common Sense, and Planning.
See, it's not that hard to plan out a budget, and find ways to save money.
But you forgot, darkstar is from bizarro land. Over there incompotence is encouraged when going to fanime. Video rooms are primarily meant for sleeping there.
I can't plan six months ahead. For all I know and expect, six months from now, I'll be in prison. I usually can't give more than maybe about three weeks.
(In fact, there's more than one time that deciding to go to cons came down to that.)
Wow. You are helpless. I made plans for San Diego Comic Con back in December. I got my pass in advance, and made Hotel arrangements at a Motel 6
Before the cons reservations were up so I wouldn't have the nightmare problem with getting a room like last year because the hotel rooms sold out in less than two hours. That's eight months in advance. Oh, and guess what...
You can cancel hotel reservations in advance if necessary! I have friends that have done the same.
By the way, i almost didn't make it to Fanime last year, but was able to make arrangements less than two months in advance. I truely believe you didn't even try to make arrangements, or save up, or plan ahead.
Quote from: darkstarThe rules are the hassle. When you have to worry more about abiding by the damn rules than enjoying the con, then what money you threw at it was a waste.
Basically, I'm making a point: If you want to enforce those rules, you had better go above and beyond to deal with people like me, because there is ZERO CHANCE of me going to the con and abiding by those rules.
So in other words, the rules don't apply to you?!? WTF?
*sigh*
Looking for budget help? Check the first few pages!
The rest is all derailed.